Episode 2: Top Ten Misconceptions about Revelation

Hey, welcome to Revelation. It's not Hey, welcome to Revelation. It's not what you think. I'm Liz. what you think. I'm Liz. what you think. I'm Liz. >> And hey, I'm Mario. And if the word >> And hey, I'm Mario. And if the word >> And hey, I'm Mario. And if the word revelation makes you a little anxious, revelation makes you a little anxious, revelation makes you a little anxious, it makes you duck and hide. Let me tell it makes you duck and hide. Let me tell it makes you duck and hide. Let me tell you, you're not alone. you, you're not alone. you, you're not alone. >> Because a lot of people treat this book >> Because a lot of people treat this book >> Because a lot of people treat this book like a puzzle to solve. And there's no like a puzzle to solve. And there's no like a puzzle to solve. And there's no shortage of speculations about how the shortage of speculations about how the shortage of speculations about how the end is near. end is near. end is near. >> And what if this book is not actually a >> And what if this book is not actually a >> And what if this book is not actually a book of fear, but it's a book of hope. A book of fear, but it's a book of hope. A book of fear, but it's a book of hope. A lot of hope. So, we've got two pastors, lot of hope. So, we've got two pastors, lot of hope. So, we've got two pastors, Dwayne and Sean, and our content Dwayne and Sean, and our content Dwayne and Sean, and our content developer, Lindsay, here today to dive developer, Lindsay, here today to dive developer, Lindsay, here today to dive in and make sense of this mystical book. in and make sense of this mystical book. in and make sense of this mystical book. >> And today, we're gonna look at the top >> And today, we're gonna look at the top >> And today, we're gonna look at the top 10 misconceptions of the book of 10 misconceptions of the book of 10 misconceptions of the book of Revelation. We're actually going to do a Revelation. We're actually going to do a Revelation. We're actually going to do a little bit of an activity. So, we got a little bit of an activity. So, we got a little bit of an activity. So, we got a board, board, board, >> big board >> big board >> big board >> right here. >> right here. >> right here. >> You guys ready? >> You guys ready? >> You guys ready? >> We're ready. 10 of them. >> We're ready. 10 of them. >> We're ready. 10 of them. >> Ready. >> Ready. >> Ready. >> I think Dwayne's more ready than I am, >> I think Dwayne's more ready than I am, >> I think Dwayne's more ready than I am, but we're ready. Feels like Sean's but we're ready. Feels like Sean's but we're ready. Feels like Sean's ready. ready. ready. >> We're going to ask you the hard >> We're going to ask you the hard >> We're going to ask you the hard questions. questions. questions. >> Very hard questions. Let's get it. Let's >> Very hard questions. Let's get it. Let's >> Very hard questions. Let's get it. Let's do it. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. do it. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. do it. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Misconception number one. Misconception number one. Misconception number one. >> Number one. Let's go >> Number one. Let's go >> Number one. Let's go >> reveal it. >> reveal it. >> reveal it. >> So, let's start with this one. >> So, let's start with this one. >> So, let's start with this one. Revelation is mainly a timeline of Revelation is mainly a timeline of Revelation is mainly a timeline of future events. How do you feel about future events. How do you feel about future events. How do you feel about that?

that? that? >> Uh, I don't personally subscribe to that >> Uh, I don't personally subscribe to that >> Uh, I don't personally subscribe to that uh perspective. But let me just say uh perspective. But let me just say uh perspective. But let me just say this. this. this. >> There are some brilliant, >> There are some brilliant, >> There are some brilliant, deeply committed followers of Jesus who deeply committed followers of Jesus who deeply committed followers of Jesus who it is their perspective. And so it is it is their perspective. And so it is it is their perspective. And so it is one of these things that for me uh I I one of these things that for me uh I I one of these things that for me uh I I really want to work toward unity around really want to work toward unity around really want to work toward unity around what I would call the essentials of what I would call the essentials of what I would call the essentials of faith. When I talk about the essentials, faith. When I talk about the essentials, faith. When I talk about the essentials, I'm talking about Jesus resurrected from I'm talking about Jesus resurrected from I'm talking about Jesus resurrected from the dead. Jesus is the son of God. You the dead. Jesus is the son of God. You the dead. Jesus is the son of God. You know, those types of things. know, those types of things. know, those types of things. >> When it comes to the non-essentials of >> When it comes to the non-essentials of >> When it comes to the non-essentials of the faith, they're the stuff that the faith, they're the stuff that the faith, they're the stuff that matters. They're important, but there's matters. They're important, but there's matters. They're important, but there's liberty. You can have some people who liberty. You can have some people who liberty. You can have some people who believe some different things about it, believe some different things about it, believe some different things about it, and we're still brothers and sisters in and we're still brothers and sisters in and we're still brothers and sisters in Christ. And so, we may disagree about Christ. And so, we may disagree about Christ. And so, we may disagree about it, but it's not a salvific issue. And it, but it's not a salvific issue. And it, but it's not a salvific issue. And that in all things, we're going to love. that in all things, we're going to love. that in all things, we're going to love. So even though I will hold a very So even though I will hold a very So even though I will hold a very different perspective than my brothers different perspective than my brothers different perspective than my brothers and sisters that hold this, I I want to and sisters that hold this, I I want to and sisters that hold this, I I want to acknowledge that it is a paradigm a lot acknowledge that it is a paradigm a lot acknowledge that it is a paradigm a lot of people hold and in in our culture of people hold and in in our culture of people hold and in in our culture maybe one of the more popular paradigms. maybe one of the more popular paradigms. maybe one of the more popular paradigms. Now uh there's lots of reasons why I Now uh there's lots of reasons why I Now uh there's lots of reasons why I don't see Revelation as a timeline. Uh don't see Revelation as a timeline. Uh don't see Revelation as a timeline. Uh again cuz from me and my perspective if again cuz from me and my perspective if again cuz from me and my perspective if it's exclusively about 21st century it's exclusively about 21st century it's exclusively about 21st century geopolitical situations that would have geopolitical situations that would have geopolitical situations that would have meant nothing to its original hearers.

meant nothing to its original hearers. meant nothing to its original hearers. uh it wouldn't have provided the hope uh it wouldn't have provided the hope uh it wouldn't have provided the hope that they needed 2,000 years ago. And so that they needed 2,000 years ago. And so that they needed 2,000 years ago. And so uh I don't necessarily see it in that uh I don't necessarily see it in that uh I don't necessarily see it in that way as exclusively about future events way as exclusively about future events way as exclusively about future events and and current events. I see it more as and and current events. I see it more as and and current events. I see it more as a template, meaning uh it's not only a template, meaning uh it's not only a template, meaning uh it's not only content that will be true, it has been content that will be true, it has been content that will be true, it has been true. It still is true. And so it's it's true. It still is true. And so it's it's true. It still is true. And so it's it's timeless in nature. The principles that timeless in nature. The principles that timeless in nature. The principles that Revelation teach are timeless in any Revelation teach are timeless in any Revelation teach are timeless in any situation. And why that matters is I situation. And why that matters is I situation. And why that matters is I feel like Jesus was really really clear feel like Jesus was really really clear feel like Jesus was really really clear that nobody would know the day or the that nobody would know the day or the that nobody would know the day or the hour that he was going to come. He even hour that he was going to come. He even hour that he was going to come. He even said, "Even me as the son of man, I said, "Even me as the son of man, I said, "Even me as the son of man, I don't even know." That's right. don't even know." That's right. don't even know." That's right. >> There's a part of me that goes to the >> There's a part of me that goes to the >> There's a part of me that goes to the group that sees it as a timeline and try group that sees it as a timeline and try group that sees it as a timeline and try to predict the end based on the events to predict the end based on the events to predict the end based on the events in Revelation. Do we really think that in Revelation. Do we really think that in Revelation. Do we really think that we're going to figure it out when Jesus we're going to figure it out when Jesus we're going to figure it out when Jesus said that he himself doesn't know? And said that he himself doesn't know? And said that he himself doesn't know? And so I I think it's a poor way to look at so I I think it's a poor way to look at so I I think it's a poor way to look at it. But if you see it as a template that it. But if you see it as a template that it. But if you see it as a template that what is what will be true is what has what is what will be true is what has what is what will be true is what has been true and is true. That means been true and is true. That means been true and is true. That means there's there's nothing else we're there's there's nothing else we're there's there's nothing else we're waiting for for Christ's return. Christ waiting for for Christ's return. Christ waiting for for Christ's return. Christ could return at any moment.

could return at any moment. could return at any moment. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And the the declaration of the gospel >> And the the declaration of the gospel >> And the the declaration of the gospel and Jesus words is get your life ready. and Jesus words is get your life ready. and Jesus words is get your life ready. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Stay connected to me because whenever he >> Stay connected to me because whenever he >> Stay connected to me because whenever he returns, if your life's ready, it returns, if your life's ready, it returns, if your life's ready, it doesn't matter. True. We're ready for doesn't matter. True. We're ready for doesn't matter. True. We're ready for him. And so I think that's the the him. And so I think that's the the him. And so I think that's the the predominant message. Sean, one thing I predominant message. Sean, one thing I predominant message. Sean, one thing I found that was interesting is on the found that was interesting is on the found that was interesting is on the very last page of my Bible, Jesus says very last page of my Bible, Jesus says very last page of my Bible, Jesus says like two or three times, I'm coming like two or three times, I'm coming like two or three times, I'm coming soon. Now, that was like 2,000 years soon. Now, that was like 2,000 years soon. Now, that was like 2,000 years ago. ago. ago. >> How how soon is soon? That's not a >> How how soon is soon? That's not a >> How how soon is soon? That's not a misconception. I'm just curious. misconception. I'm just curious. misconception. I'm just curious. >> I mean, it's a great question. What's >> I mean, it's a great question. What's >> I mean, it's a great question. What's interesting is you you actually look interesting is you you actually look interesting is you you actually look throughout the whole New Testament, the throughout the whole New Testament, the throughout the whole New Testament, the biblical authors always believed that biblical authors always believed that biblical authors always believed that the last days is what we were living in. the last days is what we were living in. the last days is what we were living in. That that the return was always That that the return was always That that the return was always imminent. Uh you even get like Acts imminent. Uh you even get like Acts imminent. Uh you even get like Acts chapter 2. It's a reference to uh the chapter 2. It's a reference to uh the chapter 2. It's a reference to uh the Old Testament prophet Joel. It says in Old Testament prophet Joel. It says in Old Testament prophet Joel. It says in the last days God will pour out my the last days God will pour out my the last days God will pour out my spirit on all people. And so the spirit on all people. And so the spirit on all people. And so the biblical from a biblical writer biblical from a biblical writer biblical from a biblical writer perspective the last days are from the perspective the last days are from the perspective the last days are from the moment Jesus ascended to the moment moment Jesus ascended to the moment moment Jesus ascended to the moment Jesus returns. And those are the last Jesus returns. And those are the last Jesus returns. And those are the last days. Now we just happen to live under days. Now we just happen to live under days. Now we just happen to live under the reign of a God who a day in the Lord the reign of a God who a day in the Lord the reign of a God who a day in the Lord is like a thousand years and a thousand is like a thousand years and a thousand is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. And so God's years is like a day. And so God's years is like a day. And so God's timeline of soon may be different than timeline of soon may be different than timeline of soon may be different than ours. Uh but nevertheless, we are in the ours. Uh but nevertheless, we are in the ours. Uh but nevertheless, we are in the last days and Jesus could return at any last days and Jesus could return at any last days and Jesus could return at any moment. He could return next week. He moment. He could return next week. He moment. He could return next week. He could return a thousand years from now.

could return a thousand years from now. could return a thousand years from now. I don't really know. What's important is I don't really know. What's important is I don't really know. What's important is I get my life ready for whenever it is. I get my life ready for whenever it is. I get my life ready for whenever it is. >> Yeah, it's good. >> Yeah, it's good. >> Yeah, it's good. >> Yeah, Sean, I think that passage that >> Yeah, Sean, I think that passage that >> Yeah, Sean, I think that passage that you referenced, uh Matthew chapter 24, you referenced, uh Matthew chapter 24, you referenced, uh Matthew chapter 24, and nobody knows the time nor the hour and nobody knows the time nor the hour and nobody knows the time nor the hour of Christ's return. We don't we don't of Christ's return. We don't we don't of Christ's return. We don't we don't know. Uh I think where we miss it in know. Uh I think where we miss it in know. Uh I think where we miss it in this book is that we start pursuing a this book is that we start pursuing a this book is that we start pursuing a timeline. And there's good reason for timeline. And there's good reason for timeline. And there's good reason for that. I think the most people approach that. I think the most people approach that. I think the most people approach it that way because they just want it that way because they just want it that way because they just want whatever suffering they're experiencing whatever suffering they're experiencing whatever suffering they're experiencing or that they've seen to end. or that they've seen to end. or that they've seen to end. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And they want that to be sooner rather >> And they want that to be sooner rather >> And they want that to be sooner rather than later, right? And so I think it than later, right? And so I think it than later, right? And so I think it comes from a very heartfelt perception. comes from a very heartfelt perception. comes from a very heartfelt perception. But at the end of the day, when you But at the end of the day, when you But at the end of the day, when you approach it that way, um you might miss approach it that way, um you might miss approach it that way, um you might miss the real truth of the book. And the the real truth of the book. And the the real truth of the book. And the truth of the book is that we want to truth of the book is that we want to truth of the book is that we want to elevate Jesus. That book points to Jesus elevate Jesus. That book points to Jesus elevate Jesus. That book points to Jesus in a way uh that just shows him to us. in a way uh that just shows him to us. in a way uh that just shows him to us. And that even in the midst of our And that even in the midst of our And that even in the midst of our current suffering, Jesus is still king. current suffering, Jesus is still king. current suffering, Jesus is still king. He's still lord. and he's still present. He's still lord. and he's still present. He's still lord. and he's still present. And so we might miss that truth trying And so we might miss that truth trying And so we might miss that truth trying to pursue a timeline. That's right. to pursue a timeline. That's right. to pursue a timeline. That's right. >> So we were going to go through the >> So we were going to go through the >> So we were going to go through the >> the misconceptions 1 through 10, but >> the misconceptions 1 through 10, but >> the misconceptions 1 through 10, but Dwayne just hit on another one. Mario, Dwayne just hit on another one. Mario, Dwayne just hit on another one. Mario, read misconception number six.

read misconception number six. read misconception number six. >> Number six, >> Number six, >> Number six, if I'm experiencing pain if I'm experiencing pain if I'm experiencing pain >> and suffering, then I'm not close to >> and suffering, then I'm not close to >> and suffering, then I'm not close to Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> let's talk about that. True. >> let's talk about that. True. >> let's talk about that. True. >> Uh big false. Yeah, >> Uh big false. Yeah, >> Uh big false. Yeah, >> huge false. >> huge false. >> huge false. >> Uh I think so. So if Jesus is the model >> Uh I think so. So if Jesus is the model >> Uh I think so. So if Jesus is the model um and we are trying to follow Jesus um um and we are trying to follow Jesus um um and we are trying to follow Jesus um Jesus was persecuted Jesus was persecuted Jesus was persecuted um he was killed um and I think it'd be um he was killed um and I think it'd be um he was killed um and I think it'd be a big misnomer to think that we would a big misnomer to think that we would a big misnomer to think that we would somehow get excluded from suffering in somehow get excluded from suffering in somehow get excluded from suffering in following Jesus. following Jesus. following Jesus. >> Um the Bible makes clear over and over >> Um the Bible makes clear over and over >> Um the Bible makes clear over and over again that there will be suffering that again that there will be suffering that again that there will be suffering that we will endure hardship that things will we will endure hardship that things will we will endure hardship that things will be difficult on this side of eternity. be difficult on this side of eternity. be difficult on this side of eternity. Uh and so I think to miss that message Uh and so I think to miss that message Uh and so I think to miss that message would be to miss the whole of the would be to miss the whole of the would be to miss the whole of the gospels. the whole of the New Testament, gospels. the whole of the New Testament, gospels. the whole of the New Testament, >> really the whole of the Bible. Um, we >> really the whole of the Bible. Um, we >> really the whole of the Bible. Um, we will certainly endure suffering and it will certainly endure suffering and it will certainly endure suffering and it doesn't necessarily mean that you're far doesn't necessarily mean that you're far doesn't necessarily mean that you're far from Jesus. It actually might mean that from Jesus. It actually might mean that from Jesus. It actually might mean that you're closer because when we endure you're closer because when we endure you're closer because when we endure suffering, suffering, suffering, >> our desire should be to lean in closely >> our desire should be to lean in closely >> our desire should be to lean in closely to Jesus.

to Jesus. to Jesus. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Mhm. Good. >> Mhm. Good. >> Mhm. Good. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Should we ask them number two? >> Should we ask them number two? >> Should we ask them number two? >> Let's go. Let's go. Number two. >> Let's go. Let's go. Number two. >> Let's go. Let's go. Number two. >> This one's This one's your It's going to >> This one's This one's your It's going to >> This one's This one's your It's going to be your favorite one. Here we go. The be your favorite one. Here we go. The be your favorite one. Here we go. The beast and the 666 refer to a specific beast and the 666 refer to a specific beast and the 666 refer to a specific modern politician. modern politician. modern politician. And name who? And name who? And name who? >> Uh, am I dating myself by saying >> Uh, am I dating myself by saying >> Uh, am I dating myself by saying Gorbachoff? Gorbachoff? Gorbachoff? >> I think it's Gor. It's not Wasn't it >> I think it's Gor. It's not Wasn't it >> I think it's Gor. It's not Wasn't it Gorbachov? How many different people Gorbachov? How many different people Gorbachov? How many different people have been named within my lifetime? have been named within my lifetime? have been named within my lifetime? >> So many >> So many >> So many president. >> Yeah. Because I That's what I remember >> Yeah. Because I That's what I remember growing up as a kid. Somebody was like, growing up as a kid. Somebody was like, growing up as a kid. Somebody was like, "Well, Ronald Reagan's obviously 666 "Well, Ronald Reagan's obviously 666 "Well, Ronald Reagan's obviously 666 because his name is Ronald Wilson because his name is Ronald Wilson because his name is Ronald Wilson Reagan. Each one of his names are six Reagan. Each one of his names are six Reagan. Each one of his names are six letters." Obviously, he's the six. And letters." Obviously, he's the six. And letters." Obviously, he's the six. And so that's played out so many times by so so that's played out so many times by so so that's played out so many times by so many people. many people. many people. >> You were around during Ronald Reagan's >> You were around during Ronald Reagan's >> You were around during Ronald Reagan's time. time. time. >> Yeah. Sorry. I'm a little older than you >> Yeah. Sorry. I'm a little older than you >> Yeah. Sorry. I'm a little older than you are, sir. All of you. You know, we're are, sir. All of you. You know, we're are, sir. All of you. You know, we're older. That's not us. Thanks.

older. That's not us. Thanks. older. That's not us. Thanks. >> Thanks for the reminder, Mario. >> Thanks for the reminder, Mario. >> Thanks for the reminder, Mario. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. >> So, who is it? What is it? Why is it in >> So, who is it? What is it? Why is it in >> So, who is it? What is it? Why is it in here? Lindsay. Well, there there are two here? Lindsay. Well, there there are two here? Lindsay. Well, there there are two like really prominent lines of thinking like really prominent lines of thinking like really prominent lines of thinking in regards to this. Uh one is that uh in regards to this. Uh one is that uh in regards to this. Uh one is that uh and Sean might have to help me here, but and Sean might have to help me here, but and Sean might have to help me here, but uh Nero Caesar, right, was uh the one uh Nero Caesar, right, was uh the one uh Nero Caesar, right, was uh the one that he was an emperor that there was that he was an emperor that there was that he was an emperor that there was actually this mythology around him that actually this mythology around him that actually this mythology around him that he would actually come back to life. And he would actually come back to life. And he would actually come back to life. And so a lot of times, so it's very possible so a lot of times, so it's very possible so a lot of times, so it's very possible that it could be just referring to sort that it could be just referring to sort that it could be just referring to sort of uh to to him, but really what it of uh to to him, but really what it of uh to to him, but really what it symbolizes is things that are um in symbolizes is things that are um in symbolizes is things that are um in opposition that demand our allegiance opposition that demand our allegiance opposition that demand our allegiance away from Jesus. So the other being the away from Jesus. So the other being the away from Jesus. So the other being the number six is falls short of the number number six is falls short of the number number six is falls short of the number seven, which is the number of seven, which is the number of seven, which is the number of perfection. And so 666 is perfectly perfection. And so 666 is perfectly perfection. And so 666 is perfectly imperfect. Um, and it it will always imperfect. Um, and it it will always imperfect. Um, and it it will always fall short of what Jesus and uh offers fall short of what Jesus and uh offers fall short of what Jesus and uh offers us. So, us. So, us. So, >> can I throw in a couple of other nuggets >> can I throw in a couple of other nuggets >> can I throw in a couple of other nuggets just for fun around it? So, to Lindsay's just for fun around it? So, to Lindsay's just for fun around it? So, to Lindsay's point, what she's describing there, the point, what she's describing there, the point, what she's describing there, the beast is described in chapter 13 beast is described in chapter 13 beast is described in chapter 13 >> with Christlike qualities.

>> with Christlike qualities. >> with Christlike qualities. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And what happens with the beast, and >> And what happens with the beast, and >> And what happens with the beast, and you'll see this in Revelation 13, is you'll see this in Revelation 13, is you'll see this in Revelation 13, is they're counterfeits to Christ. So, they're counterfeits to Christ. So, they're counterfeits to Christ. So, there's a lot of details that are there's a lot of details that are there's a lot of details that are similar to descriptives of the lamb in similar to descriptives of the lamb in similar to descriptives of the lamb in chapter 5. And so that's what the enemy chapter 5. And so that's what the enemy chapter 5. And so that's what the enemy does. He counterfeits. He makes it look does. He counterfeits. He makes it look does. He counterfeits. He makes it look like he's like the lamb, but he's like he's like the lamb, but he's like he's like the lamb, but he's actually nothing like him at all. And so actually nothing like him at all. And so actually nothing like him at all. And so that that is the beast. Whatever the that that is the beast. Whatever the that that is the beast. Whatever the beast is, it's a counterfeit Christ. beast is, it's a counterfeit Christ. beast is, it's a counterfeit Christ. It's actually somebody who becomes an It's actually somebody who becomes an It's actually somebody who becomes an antichrist. Right? Uh now the reason why antichrist. Right? Uh now the reason why antichrist. Right? Uh now the reason why the first century could have understood the first century could have understood the first century could have understood that as Neo Caesar is they had this um that as Neo Caesar is they had this um that as Neo Caesar is they had this um they had an understanding around they had an understanding around they had an understanding around numerology that a particular letter had numerology that a particular letter had numerology that a particular letter had a number correlation. So like a is 1, b a number correlation. So like a is 1, b a number correlation. So like a is 1, b is 2, so on and so forth. And so if you is 2, so on and so forth. And so if you is 2, so on and so forth. And so if you take the word neo caesar spelled out in take the word neo caesar spelled out in take the word neo caesar spelled out in the Hebrew language, you would arrive at the Hebrew language, you would arrive at the Hebrew language, you would arrive at 666. And so it's possible that the early 666. And so it's possible that the early 666. And so it's possible that the early church would have would have known that church would have would have known that church would have would have known that back to what Lindsay said, there was back to what Lindsay said, there was back to what Lindsay said, there was this thought back in the first century this thought back in the first century this thought back in the first century that Nero would actually rise again. that Nero would actually rise again. that Nero would actually rise again. Again, that's a counterfeit Jesus. And Again, that's a counterfeit Jesus. And Again, that's a counterfeit Jesus. And so some would suggest it is a reference so some would suggest it is a reference so some would suggest it is a reference to Nero. Uh but I think the other piece to Nero. Uh but I think the other piece to Nero. Uh but I think the other piece that she suggests is also just as true that she suggests is also just as true that she suggests is also just as true and really plays out today. There are and really plays out today. There are and really plays out today. There are all kinds of numbers in revelation and all kinds of numbers in revelation and all kinds of numbers in revelation and they all mean something. So three shows they all mean something. So three shows they all mean something. So three shows up, it means something. Six shows up, it up, it means something. Six shows up, it up, it means something. Six shows up, it means something. Seven, 10 shows up, it means something. Seven, 10 shows up, it means something. Seven, 10 shows up, it means something. 12 shows mean every means something. 12 shows mean every means something. 12 shows mean every number means something. Right? So seven number means something. Right? So seven number means something. Right? So seven to Lindsay's point is the number of God.

to Lindsay's point is the number of God. to Lindsay's point is the number of God. Uh it's perfection. It's wholeness. Uh Uh it's perfection. It's wholeness. Uh Uh it's perfection. It's wholeness. Uh the number of six is the number of the the number of six is the number of the the number of six is the number of the beast. It's the dragon. It's the enemy. beast. It's the dragon. It's the enemy. beast. It's the dragon. It's the enemy. It's Satan's number because he's a It's Satan's number because he's a It's Satan's number because he's a counterfeit short of God. And so it counterfeit short of God. And so it counterfeit short of God. And so it could be a reference not to a particular could be a reference not to a particular could be a reference not to a particular person, but anybody who gets marked by person, but anybody who gets marked by person, but anybody who gets marked by the enemy that their lives are marked by the enemy that their lives are marked by the enemy that their lives are marked by the one who is short of God. He's 666. the one who is short of God. He's 666. the one who is short of God. He's 666. >> So the Apostle John wasn't talking about >> So the Apostle John wasn't talking about >> So the Apostle John wasn't talking about American politics. American politics. American politics. >> No, >> No, >> No, >> probably not. >> probably not. >> probably not. >> Probably not. >> Probably not. >> Probably not. >> Well, I know for sure it wasn't Reagan, >> Well, I know for sure it wasn't Reagan, >> Well, I know for sure it wasn't Reagan, but I don't or Gorbachoff. Yeah. Uh but I don't or Gorbachoff. Yeah. Uh but I don't or Gorbachoff. Yeah. Uh >> Sean, you alluded to this, so we're >> Sean, you alluded to this, so we're >> Sean, you alluded to this, so we're going to jump into misconception number going to jump into misconception number going to jump into misconception number three. Here's three. Here's three. Here's a misconception. We will know who the a misconception. We will know who the a misconception. We will know who the Antichrist is. We talked about that a Antichrist is. We talked about that a Antichrist is. We talked about that a little bit, but will we know? little bit, but will we know? little bit, but will we know? >> You want me to take a stab? >> You want me to take a stab? >> You want me to take a stab? >> I would love for you to. Yeah, I'll jump >> I would love for you to. Yeah, I'll jump >> I would love for you to. Yeah, I'll jump in. I'll jump in with you. in. I'll jump in with you. in. I'll jump in with you. >> Oh, here's the crazy thing. >> Oh, here's the crazy thing. >> Oh, here's the crazy thing. >> The word Antichrist doesn't appear in >> The word Antichrist doesn't appear in >> The word Antichrist doesn't appear in the book of Revelation. the book of Revelation. the book of Revelation. >> Oh, that's right. >> Oh, that's right. >> Oh, that's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Now, it does appear elsewhere in >> Now, it does appear elsewhere in >> Now, it does appear elsewhere in scripture. And so, uh, book of First scripture. And so, uh, book of First scripture. And so, uh, book of First John, 2 John, the word Antichrist, and John, 2 John, the word Antichrist, and John, 2 John, the word Antichrist, and it's written by the same author. And so, it's written by the same author. And so, it's written by the same author. And so, it's not that it's not a biblical word it's not that it's not a biblical word it's not that it's not a biblical word or concept. it's just not written in the or concept. it's just not written in the or concept. it's just not written in the book of Revelation. And so, Revelation book of Revelation. And so, Revelation book of Revelation. And so, Revelation uses imagery of the dragon and the uses imagery of the dragon and the uses imagery of the dragon and the beasts and those types of things that beasts and those types of things that beasts and those types of things that represent again the counterfeit that we represent again the counterfeit that we represent again the counterfeit that we talked about before. Uh, but my talked about before. Uh, but my talked about before. Uh, but my understanding if we look like hoing in understanding if we look like hoing in understanding if we look like hoing in on the book of Revelation is again, I on the book of Revelation is again, I on the book of Revelation is again, I don't correlate the details in don't correlate the details in don't correlate the details in Revelation with current events. And so Revelation with current events. And so Revelation with current events. And so therefore, no, I don't know that I therefore, no, I don't know that I therefore, no, I don't know that I correlate anything to help me predict correlate anything to help me predict correlate anything to help me predict who a potential antichrist is. Now, if

who a potential antichrist is. Now, if who a potential antichrist is. Now, if you look at John's other writings, uh he you look at John's other writings, uh he you look at John's other writings, uh he talks about like an the antichrist, talks about like an the antichrist, talks about like an the antichrist, which sounds like some sort of single which sounds like some sort of single which sounds like some sort of single figure. And then he also talks about figure. And then he also talks about figure. And then he also talks about antichrist, right? antichrist, right? antichrist, right? >> Meaning plural. >> Meaning plural. >> Meaning plural. >> And so there's also just a sense that >> And so there's also just a sense that >> And so there's also just a sense that every age has had people who counterfeit every age has had people who counterfeit every age has had people who counterfeit and oppose the things of Jesus. They and oppose the things of Jesus. They and oppose the things of Jesus. They would be antirist. would be antirist. would be antirist. >> Now, will there be one figure one day >> Now, will there be one figure one day >> Now, will there be one figure one day that's the full summation of that? that's the full summation of that? that's the full summation of that? Maybe. Maybe Maybe. Maybe Maybe. Maybe >> maybe >> maybe >> maybe >> uh but regardless if it's that paradigm >> uh but regardless if it's that paradigm >> uh but regardless if it's that paradigm or if it's now, we have to recognize or if it's now, we have to recognize or if it's now, we have to recognize that there are people and groups and that there are people and groups and that there are people and groups and systems that represent everything systems that represent everything systems that represent everything antithetical to Christ. And Revelation antithetical to Christ. And Revelation antithetical to Christ. And Revelation is trying to pull the veil back so we is trying to pull the veil back so we is trying to pull the veil back so we can see that we can understand it. So can see that we can understand it. So can see that we can understand it. So therefore, we're not deceived by it and therefore, we're not deceived by it and therefore, we're not deceived by it and fall prey to it that we can stand strong fall prey to it that we can stand strong fall prey to it that we can stand strong with Jesus. Mhm. You you said maybe on with Jesus. Mhm. You you said maybe on with Jesus. Mhm. You you said maybe on when you were speaking, do we feel like when you were speaking, do we feel like when you were speaking, do we feel like we need to know the answers to we need to know the answers to we need to know the answers to everything in the book of Revelations?

everything in the book of Revelations? everything in the book of Revelations? Revelation. Revelation. Revelation. >> If we do, I'm in trouble. >> If we do, I'm in trouble. >> If we do, I'm in trouble. >> Yeah, we're all in trouble if we do, >> Yeah, we're all in trouble if we do, >> Yeah, we're all in trouble if we do, >> right? Like, >> right? Like, >> right? Like, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> I I think there are some things that are >> I I think there are some things that are >> I I think there are some things that are more clear than others in Revelation. more clear than others in Revelation. more clear than others in Revelation. Some things I'm more confident about Some things I'm more confident about Some things I'm more confident about than others in the book of Revelation. I than others in the book of Revelation. I than others in the book of Revelation. I I'd also be of the persuasion that the I'd also be of the persuasion that the I'd also be of the persuasion that the things that matter most are the most things that matter most are the most things that matter most are the most clear. clear. clear. >> Yeah. And there are things that just >> Yeah. And there are things that just >> Yeah. And there are things that just aren't as clear. And I think if you're aren't as clear. And I think if you're aren't as clear. And I think if you're honest about it, honest about it, honest about it, >> we have to recognize this is what I >> we have to recognize this is what I >> we have to recognize this is what I think, think, think, >> but I'm not 100% sure. But none of those >> but I'm not 100% sure. But none of those >> but I'm not 100% sure. But none of those things things things >> impact my clear conviction about who God >> impact my clear conviction about who God >> impact my clear conviction about who God is or what God's trying to do. is or what God's trying to do. is or what God's trying to do. >> They matter, but they don't really >> They matter, but they don't really >> They matter, but they don't really matter that much at the end of the day. matter that much at the end of the day. matter that much at the end of the day. But I think some of that we got to hold But I think some of that we got to hold But I think some of that we got to hold pretty loosely and be honest with. I'm pretty loosely and be honest with. I'm pretty loosely and be honest with. I'm not 100% sure. not 100% sure. not 100% sure. >> Yep. I think one of my biggest takeaways >> Yep. I think one of my biggest takeaways >> Yep. I think one of my biggest takeaways from studying this book is the fact that from studying this book is the fact that from studying this book is the fact that >> I need to be content with knowing that >> I need to be content with knowing that >> I need to be content with knowing that his ways are above our ways. his ways are above our ways. his ways are above our ways. >> Because if I can explain away everything >> Because if I can explain away everything >> Because if I can explain away everything in scriptures, in scriptures, in scriptures, >> then I have put myself in a really >> then I have put myself in a really >> then I have put myself in a really precarious position.

precarious position. precarious position. >> You should. >> You should. >> You should. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I think that we could run into >> Yeah. And I think that we could run into >> Yeah. And I think that we could run into the same risk that we run into with the the same risk that we run into with the the same risk that we run into with the timeline. We start pursuing the person timeline. We start pursuing the person timeline. We start pursuing the person who would be the personification of the who would be the personification of the who would be the personification of the antichrist and miss Jesus. antichrist and miss Jesus. antichrist and miss Jesus. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Um it's the same problem that we have >> Um it's the same problem that we have >> Um it's the same problem that we have with pursuing the timeline. We start with pursuing the timeline. We start with pursuing the timeline. We start looking for signs and symbols of what looking for signs and symbols of what looking for signs and symbols of what might be or what we think it is and we might be or what we think it is and we might be or what we think it is and we miss Jesus in the process. miss Jesus in the process. miss Jesus in the process. >> Yeah. I was going to ask what's the >> Yeah. I was going to ask what's the >> Yeah. I was going to ask what's the dangers of trying to figure it out and dangers of trying to figure it out and dangers of trying to figure it out and see who see who see who >> the it's whoever we don't like that >> the it's whoever we don't like that >> the it's whoever we don't like that week. week. week. >> True. >> True. >> True. >> Like we paint them as the antichrist. >> Like we paint them as the antichrist. >> Like we paint them as the antichrist. And and in my lifetime that's happened I And and in my lifetime that's happened I And and in my lifetime that's happened I I at least hundreds of times. I at least hundreds of times. I at least hundreds of times. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So yeah, I think the danger is you start >> So yeah, I think the danger is you start >> So yeah, I think the danger is you start pursuing that, painting a picture of pursuing that, painting a picture of pursuing that, painting a picture of what that looks like and in the meantime what that looks like and in the meantime what that looks like and in the meantime you're missing the true aim of the book. you're missing the true aim of the book. you're missing the true aim of the book. >> Yeah. Like does knowing change how you >> Yeah. Like does knowing change how you >> Yeah. Like does knowing change how you live today? live today? live today? >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Probably not, >> Probably not, >> Probably not, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Probably not. All right, we're moving on >> Probably not. All right, we're moving on >> Probably not. All right, we're moving on to to to >> number four. >> number four. >> number four. >> Number four. >> Number four. >> Number four. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> I like this one, guys.

>> I like this one, guys. >> I like this one, guys. >> Yep. All right. Here's a misconception. >> Yep. All right. Here's a misconception. >> Yep. All right. Here's a misconception. The mark of the beast is about The mark of the beast is about The mark of the beast is about microchips or technology. And I actually microchips or technology. And I actually microchips or technology. And I actually I I just chat to PTE um the different I I just chat to PTE um the different I I just chat to PTE um the different >> the different things that people have >> the different things that people have >> the different things that people have thought are the mark of the beast. thought are the mark of the beast. thought are the mark of the beast. >> It's on their forehead. >> It's on their forehead. >> It's on their forehead. >> Social security numbers. There was a >> Social security numbers. There was a >> Social security numbers. There was a time which they thought social security time which they thought social security time which they thought social security numbers was a thing. numbers was a thing. numbers was a thing. >> Uh driver's license. Um, >> Uh driver's license. Um, >> Uh driver's license. Um, computer chips, RFID chips, uh, computer chips, RFID chips, uh, computer chips, RFID chips, uh, smartphones. I've heard smartphones. I've heard smartphones. I've heard >> just the androids though. >> just the androids though. >> just the androids though. >> Just the green bubble is the mark of the >> Just the green bubble is the mark of the >> Just the green bubble is the mark of the beast. beast. beast. >> Just the green bubble. I knew I actually >> Just the green bubble. I knew I actually >> Just the green bubble. I knew I actually people think that it's the blue bubble. people think that it's the blue bubble. people think that it's the blue bubble. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Let's talk about that. >> Let's talk about that. >> Let's talk about that. >> Oh, there's so much here. >> Oh, there's so much here. >> Oh, there's so much here. You know, the the the microchip right You know, the the the microchip right You know, the the the microchip right out of the gate. Let's go ahead and out of the gate. Let's go ahead and out of the gate. Let's go ahead and dispel that. It wouldn't have even been dispel that. It wouldn't have even been dispel that. It wouldn't have even been a thought in the author's. It's just a thought in the author's. It's just a thought in the author's. It's just there's no way like it just wouldn't there's no way like it just wouldn't there's no way like it just wouldn't have even been have even been have even been >> it's on an island. >> it's on an island. >> it's on an island. >> There's a thing going to be called the >> There's a thing going to be called the >> There's a thing going to be called the microchip.

microchip. microchip. >> Yeah. I think that we have tried uh for >> Yeah. I think that we have tried uh for >> Yeah. I think that we have tried uh for generations to find what that mark is generations to find what that mark is generations to find what that mark is >> and we've pointed to all kinds of things >> and we've pointed to all kinds of things >> and we've pointed to all kinds of things um and come up wrong a lot lot lot. So, um and come up wrong a lot lot lot. So, um and come up wrong a lot lot lot. So, um I think this again this is another um I think this again this is another um I think this again this is another errand that we pursue to try to find errand that we pursue to try to find errand that we pursue to try to find something and we paint it with whatever something and we paint it with whatever something and we paint it with whatever picture we want and it doesn't it picture we want and it doesn't it picture we want and it doesn't it doesn't show what actually is in the doesn't show what actually is in the doesn't show what actually is in the text here. Um what we're talking about text here. Um what we're talking about text here. Um what we're talking about in the text is like deep allegiances um in the text is like deep allegiances um in the text is like deep allegiances um uh opposing systems of beliefs that set uh opposing systems of beliefs that set uh opposing systems of beliefs that set themselves up against Christ. themselves up against Christ. themselves up against Christ. >> And so that mark um is I think a lot of >> And so that mark um is I think a lot of >> And so that mark um is I think a lot of people look at it as a spiritual mark people look at it as a spiritual mark people look at it as a spiritual mark but there are some who try to interpret but there are some who try to interpret but there are some who try to interpret it as a physical mark. um what I see in it as a physical mark. um what I see in it as a physical mark. um what I see in the text is much more of a spiritual the text is much more of a spiritual the text is much more of a spiritual pursuit. And so I think I'm I'm looking pursuit. And so I think I'm I'm looking pursuit. And so I think I'm I'm looking for that more than I'm looking for uh for that more than I'm looking for uh for that more than I'm looking for uh this physical thing that's going to jump this physical thing that's going to jump this physical thing that's going to jump out at me or a microchip. out at me or a microchip. out at me or a microchip. >> Let's talk about that. That it's a >> Let's talk about that. That it's a >> Let's talk about that. That it's a spiritual mark. And Sean, I know you've spiritual mark. And Sean, I know you've spiritual mark. And Sean, I know you've talked about this a lot. So talked about this a lot. So talked about this a lot. So >> yeah, again, if we talk about what we >> yeah, again, if we talk about what we >> yeah, again, if we talk about what we just talked about like level of just talked about like level of just talked about like level of confidence with this one, let me say confidence with this one, let me say confidence with this one, let me say like I don't know for sure.

like I don't know for sure. like I don't know for sure. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> But here's a couple things I think we >> But here's a couple things I think we >> But here's a couple things I think we got to consider. Yeah. got to consider. Yeah. got to consider. Yeah. >> Uh, is the mark a physical mark or a >> Uh, is the mark a physical mark or a >> Uh, is the mark a physical mark or a spiritual mark? It's a great question. spiritual mark? It's a great question. spiritual mark? It's a great question. >> Part of how I go about answering that >> Part of how I go about answering that >> Part of how I go about answering that personally is you go to chapter 7, there personally is you go to chapter 7, there personally is you go to chapter 7, there is another mark and it's a mark of a is another mark and it's a mark of a is another mark and it's a mark of a believer. believer. believer. >> Everybody interprets that as spiritual. >> Everybody interprets that as spiritual. >> Everybody interprets that as spiritual. It's the mark of a believer. It's the It's the mark of a believer. It's the It's the mark of a believer. It's the Holy Spirit of God being put in Holy Spirit of God being put in Holy Spirit of God being put in somebody's life. It seals them as as a somebody's life. It seals them as as a somebody's life. It seals them as as a person, you know, of God. And so, person, you know, of God. And so, person, you know, of God. And so, >> everybody sees the the the mark of the >> everybody sees the the the mark of the >> everybody sees the the the mark of the lamb lamb lamb >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> being a spiritual mark. >> being a spiritual mark. >> being a spiritual mark. >> Yeah. M >> Yeah. M >> Yeah. M >> so why would we make the mark of the >> so why would we make the mark of the >> so why would we make the mark of the beast different? beast different? beast different? >> And so that's part of the rationale that >> And so that's part of the rationale that >> And so that's part of the rationale that I would go I think it's a spiritual mark I would go I think it's a spiritual mark I would go I think it's a spiritual mark because every single person's life is because every single person's life is because every single person's life is going to have a mark. You're either going to have a mark. You're either going to have a mark. You're either going to be marked by the lamb or you're going to be marked by the lamb or you're going to be marked by the lamb or you're going to be marked by the beast. going to be marked by the beast. going to be marked by the beast. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. And so let's play that for a >> Right. And so let's play that for a >> Right. And so let's play that for a moment. Let's just say it's a spiritual moment. Let's just say it's a spiritual moment. Let's just say it's a spiritual mark. Let's just say that the mark of mark. Let's just say that the mark of mark. Let's just say that the mark of the beast is a spiritual one where it's the beast is a spiritual one where it's the beast is a spiritual one where it's it's weird in the language it says like it's weird in the language it says like it's weird in the language it says like you can't even buy and sell goods unless you can't even buy and sell goods unless you can't even buy and sell goods unless you have that. Right? you have that. Right? you have that. Right? >> How is that true if it's spiritual? >> How is that true if it's spiritual? >> How is that true if it's spiritual? Well, again, let's go back to the first Well, again, let's go back to the first Well, again, let's go back to the first century. Uh, Deian century. Uh, Deian century. Uh, Deian demanded emperor worship. You had to bow demanded emperor worship. You had to bow demanded emperor worship. You had to bow your knee to Caesar. Like, if you your knee to Caesar. Like, if you your knee to Caesar. Like, if you didn't, everything was taken away from didn't, everything was taken away from didn't, everything was taken away from you. You couldn't hold a job. Uh, you you. You couldn't hold a job. Uh, you you. You couldn't hold a job. Uh, you couldn't trade commerce. Your life was couldn't trade commerce. Your life was couldn't trade commerce. Your life was at risk. And so if your life was not at risk. And so if your life was not at risk. And so if your life was not marked by the beast, it it cost you in marked by the beast, it it cost you in marked by the beast, it it cost you in the world in which you lived. And so the world in which you lived. And so the world in which you lived. And so it's it's another way of thinking like I it's it's another way of thinking like I it's it's another way of thinking like I think it's a spiritual mark. The other

think it's a spiritual mark. The other think it's a spiritual mark. The other thing that makes me think about you know thing that makes me think about you know thing that makes me think about you know the forehead and the hand that's the the forehead and the hand that's the the forehead and the hand that's the other people are looking for a microchip other people are looking for a microchip other people are looking for a microchip that gets on your head on your hands. I that gets on your head on your hands. I that gets on your head on your hands. I think that's a reference to Deuteronomy think that's a reference to Deuteronomy think that's a reference to Deuteronomy chapter 6 which is one of the most chapter 6 which is one of the most chapter 6 which is one of the most famous passages to a Jewish believer. famous passages to a Jewish believer. famous passages to a Jewish believer. It's the shamas to love the Lord your It's the shamas to love the Lord your It's the shamas to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and God with all your heart, soul, mind, and God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And he says basically write it strength. And he says basically write it strength. And he says basically write it on your wrist and write it on your on your wrist and write it on your on your wrist and write it on your forehead. And it wasn't like literally forehead. And it wasn't like literally forehead. And it wasn't like literally do that. Although there are Jews today do that. Although there are Jews today do that. Although there are Jews today that practice and they have pieces of that practice and they have pieces of that practice and they have pieces of scripture they literally put on their scripture they literally put on their scripture they literally put on their forehead and literally the wrist. But I forehead and literally the wrist. But I forehead and literally the wrist. But I think it's more of what is the what's think it's more of what is the what's think it's more of what is the what's your forehead? It's your thoughts. your forehead? It's your thoughts. your forehead? It's your thoughts. >> What's your wrist? It's your actions. >> What's your wrist? It's your actions. >> What's your wrist? It's your actions. >> And so what's said in Deuteronomy >> And so what's said in Deuteronomy >> And so what's said in Deuteronomy chapter 6 is make sure your thoughts and chapter 6 is make sure your thoughts and chapter 6 is make sure your thoughts and your actions are aligned with the things your actions are aligned with the things your actions are aligned with the things of God. Play that out to the book of of God. Play that out to the book of of God. Play that out to the book of Revelation. You're gonna get marked by Revelation. You're gonna get marked by Revelation. You're gonna get marked by either the Holy Spirit of God or you're either the Holy Spirit of God or you're either the Holy Spirit of God or you're gonna get marked by the beast. That will gonna get marked by the beast. That will gonna get marked by the beast. That will impact how you think impact how you think impact how you think >> and what you do. It impacts everything >> and what you do. It impacts everything >> and what you do. It impacts everything that you are. that you are. that you are. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's good. >> Yeah. It's good. >> Yeah. It's good. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> Well, he that was good. >> Well, he that was good. >> Well, he that was good. >> Let's throw him the next one. >> Let's throw him the next one. >> Let's throw him the next one. >> Yeah. This is a fun one, too.

>> Yeah. This is a fun one, too. >> Yeah. This is a fun one, too. >> The rapture is going to take us all >> The rapture is going to take us all >> The rapture is going to take us all away. away. away. >> Let's talk about the rapture. >> Let's talk about the rapture. >> Let's talk about the rapture. >> Oh, this was such a fear. >> Oh, this was such a fear. >> Oh, this was such a fear. >> I know we all got thoughts on this one. >> I know we all got thoughts on this one. >> I know we all got thoughts on this one. Uh I remember as a kid like uh growing Uh I remember as a kid like uh growing Uh I remember as a kid like uh growing up and and uh I fell asleep and my up and and uh I fell asleep and my up and and uh I fell asleep and my parents left parents left parents left >> and I thought >> and I thought >> and I thought >> I just got >> I just got >> I just got >> I just got I just got raptured like I >> I just got I just got raptured like I >> I just got I just got raptured like I really was terrible. really was terrible. really was terrible. >> You got left behind. You were left >> You got left behind. You were left >> You got left behind. You were left behind. I got left behind. That's right. behind. I got left behind. That's right. behind. I got left behind. That's right. I got left behind. Got left behind. I got left behind. Got left behind. I got left behind. Got left behind. >> I was like what just happened? I don't >> I was like what just happened? I don't >> I was like what just happened? I don't know. Um know. Um know. Um >> man, you and Kurt Cameron. >> man, you and Kurt Cameron. >> man, you and Kurt Cameron. >> Me and Kurt Cameron >> Me and Kurt Cameron >> Me and Kurt Cameron I haven't seen the movie. Did he get I haven't seen the movie. Did he get I haven't seen the movie. Did he get left behind? left behind? left behind? >> I don't I don't know. I don't know. I >> I don't I don't know. I don't know. I >> I don't I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But I was afraid of that don't know. But I was afraid of that don't know. But I was afraid of that too, man. too, man. too, man. >> That was it man. I we saw the movies >> That was it man. I we saw the movies >> That was it man. I we saw the movies growing up. go to sleep growing up. go to sleep growing up. go to sleep >> and it created a lot of fear and concern >> and it created a lot of fear and concern >> and it created a lot of fear and concern about what the rapture is and what the about what the rapture is and what the about what the rapture is and what the rapture isn't. rapture isn't. rapture isn't. >> And there are a lot of competing >> And there are a lot of competing >> And there are a lot of competing theological ideas on this. Um, this is a theological ideas on this. Um, this is a theological ideas on this. Um, this is a tough one, so I'm not I'm actually going tough one, so I'm not I'm actually going tough one, so I'm not I'm actually going to let Sean dive into it. to let Sean dive into it. to let Sean dive into it. >> Have a senior pastor answer this one. >> Have a senior pastor answer this one. >> Have a senior pastor answer this one. >> Back to me. >> Back to me. >> Back to me. >> This one's a This one's a dicey one, >> This one's a This one's a dicey one, >> This one's a This one's a dicey one, right? right? right? uh particularly because the most uh particularly because the most uh particularly because the most popularized view the rapture is a key popularized view the rapture is a key popularized view the rapture is a key piece of the view and its orientation piece of the view and its orientation piece of the view and its orientation within the timeline is really important.

within the timeline is really important. within the timeline is really important. So if you've ever read the left behind So if you've ever read the left behind So if you've ever read the left behind series, you watch the left behind series, you watch the left behind series, you watch the left behind movies, you know, the rapture becomes movies, you know, the rapture becomes movies, you know, the rapture becomes the moment that the church is raptured the moment that the church is raptured the moment that the church is raptured up. They're spared from the tribulation up. They're spared from the tribulation up. They're spared from the tribulation and everybody else gets left behind. So and everybody else gets left behind. So and everybody else gets left behind. So hence, it's a great movie. I didn't see hence, it's a great movie. I didn't see hence, it's a great movie. I didn't see it, but maybe it's a great story line, it, but maybe it's a great story line, it, but maybe it's a great story line, right? Uh here's some of the challenge right? Uh here's some of the challenge right? Uh here's some of the challenge from my perspective. from my perspective. from my perspective. The word rapture is never used in The word rapture is never used in The word rapture is never used in scripture. Not one time. scripture. Not one time. scripture. Not one time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> There's not even a reference to a >> There's not even a reference to a >> There's not even a reference to a rapture in the book of Revelation. Not rapture in the book of Revelation. Not rapture in the book of Revelation. Not once. The rapture comes scripturally once. The rapture comes scripturally once. The rapture comes scripturally from the book of First Thessalonians from the book of First Thessalonians from the book of First Thessalonians chapter 4. And Paul's writing, he's chapter 4. And Paul's writing, he's chapter 4. And Paul's writing, he's trying to give the believers hope uh in trying to give the believers hope uh in trying to give the believers hope uh in eternity. And he talks about we will be eternity. And he talks about we will be eternity. And he talks about we will be basically the dead in Christ will be basically the dead in Christ will be basically the dead in Christ will be caught up in the air is the language. caught up in the air is the language. caught up in the air is the language. And so that's the idea of where the And so that's the idea of where the And so that's the idea of where the where the rapture comes from is this where the rapture comes from is this where the rapture comes from is this idea of what does it mean to be caught idea of what does it mean to be caught idea of what does it mean to be caught up in the air. And so some will take up in the air. And so some will take up in the air. And so some will take that and then they'll create an entire that and then they'll create an entire that and then they'll create an entire theological paradigm around that because theological paradigm around that because theological paradigm around that because what they will mean by that well what what they will mean by that well what what they will mean by that well what will happen when Christ return is he's will happen when Christ return is he's will happen when Christ return is he's going to come down. He's going to grab going to come down. He's going to grab going to come down. He's going to grab the church. Then there's going to be the church. Then there's going to be the church. Then there's going to be this time of intense tribulation that this time of intense tribulation that this time of intense tribulation that the church gets spared from. We don't the church gets spared from. We don't the church gets spared from. We don't have to experience it before Jesus have to experience it before Jesus have to experience it before Jesus eventually comes back establishes rule eventually comes back establishes rule eventually comes back establishes rule for a lot of years. Right. When did that for a lot of years. Right. When did that for a lot of years. Right. When did that paradigm come come about?

paradigm come come about? paradigm come come about? >> What's interesting is the theology on >> What's interesting is the theology on >> What's interesting is the theology on the rapture does not show up in church the rapture does not show up in church the rapture does not show up in church theology until the 1800s. theology until the 1800s. theology until the 1800s. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so, uh, it's it's a relatively new >> And so, uh, it's it's a relatively new >> And so, uh, it's it's a relatively new >> theological paradigm when it comes to >> theological paradigm when it comes to >> theological paradigm when it comes to just historical theology. I always get a just historical theology. I always get a just historical theology. I always get a little nervous with anything that's little nervous with anything that's little nervous with anything that's relatively new when it comes to relatively new when it comes to relatively new when it comes to historical theology. historical theology. historical theology. >> And so, uh, those are things at least we >> And so, uh, those are things at least we >> And so, uh, those are things at least we all have to be aware of. So when it all have to be aware of. So when it all have to be aware of. So when it comes to when it comes to revelation, comes to when it comes to revelation, comes to when it comes to revelation, the reason why some people feel like the the reason why some people feel like the the reason why some people feel like the rapture where where they would place the rapture where where they would place the rapture where where they would place the rapture is the beginning of chapter 6 rapture is the beginning of chapter 6 rapture is the beginning of chapter 6 because you have really the tribulation because you have really the tribulation because you have really the tribulation from chapter 6 through chapter 18. And from chapter 6 through chapter 18. And from chapter 6 through chapter 18. And the the reason they would say that's the the the reason they would say that's the the the reason they would say that's the rapture is because you don't see a rapture is because you don't see a rapture is because you don't see a reference to the church for 12 chapters. reference to the church for 12 chapters. reference to the church for 12 chapters. So it's an argument out of silence. My So it's an argument out of silence. My So it's an argument out of silence. My opinion, that's a weak argument, you opinion, that's a weak argument, you opinion, that's a weak argument, you know, out of silence. I think that 6 know, out of silence. I think that 6 know, out of silence. I think that 6 through8 again, if it's a template, it's through8 again, if it's a template, it's through8 again, if it's a template, it's given us an understanding of how the given us an understanding of how the given us an understanding of how the enemy works. How do we navigate trans uh enemy works. How do we navigate trans uh enemy works. How do we navigate trans uh uh um tribulation? I don't know why I uh um tribulation? I don't know why I uh um tribulation? I don't know why I lost the word. Uh you know, how do we lost the word. Uh you know, how do we lost the word. Uh you know, how do we how do we have spiritual eyes to see how do we have spiritual eyes to see how do we have spiritual eyes to see what the enemy is trying to do? You what the enemy is trying to do? You what the enemy is trying to do? You know, and so um I don't think that it know, and so um I don't think that it know, and so um I don't think that it even makes sense to me that the church even makes sense to me that the church even makes sense to me that the church is spared from tribulation.

is spared from tribulation. is spared from tribulation. >> Uh I actually think the church actually >> Uh I actually think the church actually >> Uh I actually think the church actually more often than not endures tribulation. more often than not endures tribulation. more often than not endures tribulation. And it's one of our greatest testimonies And it's one of our greatest testimonies And it's one of our greatest testimonies >> to the glory and the majesty of God is >> to the glory and the majesty of God is >> to the glory and the majesty of God is actually suffering well in Jesus' name. actually suffering well in Jesus' name. actually suffering well in Jesus' name. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so I actually don't see the church >> And so I actually don't see the church >> And so I actually don't see the church getting raptured out and getting spirit getting raptured out and getting spirit getting raptured out and getting spirit of suffering. I actually see the people of suffering. I actually see the people of suffering. I actually see the people of God one of the greatest witnesses we of God one of the greatest witnesses we of God one of the greatest witnesses we will ever have as as believers is will ever have as as believers is will ever have as as believers is actually suffering well for the sake of actually suffering well for the sake of actually suffering well for the sake of our king. And uh it actually says in our king. And uh it actually says in our king. And uh it actually says in Revelation that they they overcame it by Revelation that they they overcame it by Revelation that they they overcame it by the blood of the lamb and the word of the blood of the lamb and the word of the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. their testimony. their testimony. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And so ultimately God will make the >> And so ultimately God will make the >> And so ultimately God will make the tribulation right. Ultimately he's going tribulation right. Ultimately he's going tribulation right. Ultimately he's going to make it right. Blood of the lamb to make it right. Blood of the lamb to make it right. Blood of the lamb there's victory there. there's victory there. there's victory there. >> But the word of their testimony >> But the word of their testimony >> But the word of their testimony >> and there's something about if you've >> and there's something about if you've >> and there's something about if you've ever watched somebody who's gone through ever watched somebody who's gone through ever watched somebody who's gone through such an intense season of suffering but such an intense season of suffering but such an intense season of suffering but they did so in such an honoring they did so in such an honoring they did so in such an honoring >> um >> um >> um faithful way.

faithful way. faithful way. >> It is so compelling. >> It is so compelling. >> It is so compelling. >> It points people to Jesus unlike >> It points people to Jesus unlike >> It points people to Jesus unlike anything anything anything >> else in the world. >> else in the world. >> else in the world. >> And so I think that's the charge to all >> And so I think that's the charge to all >> And so I think that's the charge to all of us. Not that God would rescue us per of us. Not that God would rescue us per of us. Not that God would rescue us per se and pull us out of the suffering se and pull us out of the suffering se and pull us out of the suffering >> is that we would lean on him and be >> is that we would lean on him and be >> is that we would lean on him and be faithful to him amidst all of our faithful to him amidst all of our faithful to him amidst all of our suffering. And that could become one of suffering. And that could become one of suffering. And that could become one of the greatest witnesses of the glory of the greatest witnesses of the glory of the greatest witnesses of the glory of God God God >> that could impact people's lives for all >> that could impact people's lives for all >> that could impact people's lives for all eternity. eternity. eternity. >> Yeah. Yeah. that that theology didn't >> Yeah. Yeah. that that theology didn't >> Yeah. Yeah. that that theology didn't emerge until like we talked about a emerge until like we talked about a emerge until like we talked about a little bit earlier the 1800s. So for little bit earlier the 1800s. So for little bit earlier the 1800s. So for 1800 years you didn't hear anything 1800 years you didn't hear anything 1800 years you didn't hear anything about it. about it. about it. >> Um and then you started seeing it pop up >> Um and then you started seeing it pop up >> Um and then you started seeing it pop up and it was popularized by something and it was popularized by something and it was popularized by something called the Scoffield Study Bible. Um called the Scoffield Study Bible. Um called the Scoffield Study Bible. Um those teachings started kind of finding those teachings started kind of finding those teachings started kind of finding their way in and that was distributed so their way in and that was distributed so their way in and that was distributed so widely that it is kind of become a thing widely that it is kind of become a thing widely that it is kind of become a thing that people approached this text with. that people approached this text with. that people approached this text with. >> And again when we talked about uh in our >> And again when we talked about uh in our >> And again when we talked about uh in our last episode the idea of approaching it last episode the idea of approaching it last episode the idea of approaching it to find truth. to find truth. to find truth. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Where did these ideas come from? uh it's >> Where did these ideas come from? uh it's >> Where did these ideas come from? uh it's really important to do a selfch check really important to do a selfch check really important to do a selfch check and make sure that we're pursuing truth and make sure that we're pursuing truth and make sure that we're pursuing truth rather than parenting what we may have rather than parenting what we may have rather than parenting what we may have heard or seen in in in the past.

heard or seen in in in the past. heard or seen in in in the past. >> I feel like you bring up a good point. >> I feel like you bring up a good point. >> I feel like you bring up a good point. There's this whole concept about the There's this whole concept about the There's this whole concept about the rapture and it just makes me think about rapture and it just makes me think about rapture and it just makes me think about challenging where our challenging where our challenging where our theology and formations coming from. theology and formations coming from. theology and formations coming from. What are the sources of but what's What are the sources of but what's What are the sources of but what's tricky is the book of Revelation. tricky is the book of Revelation. tricky is the book of Revelation. >> You >> You >> You can't really understand it on its own, can't really understand it on its own, can't really understand it on its own, right? So, you have to start to look to right? So, you have to start to look to right? So, you have to start to look to other sources for that context. Lindsay, other sources for that context. Lindsay, other sources for that context. Lindsay, you've been diving in a ton. How do you you've been diving in a ton. How do you you've been diving in a ton. How do you vet sources, discern? Because depending vet sources, discern? Because depending vet sources, discern? Because depending on which source you choose, it's going on which source you choose, it's going on which source you choose, it's going to shape the approach that you take in to shape the approach that you take in to shape the approach that you take in the framework. And then you could get the framework. And then you could get the framework. And then you could get down the point of, you know, either down the point of, you know, either down the point of, you know, either being shaped by other theologians or being shaped by other theologians or being shaped by other theologians or culture or, you know, like then you can culture or, you know, like then you can culture or, you know, like then you can get, you know, there's clothes on the get, you know, there's clothes on the get, you know, there's clothes on the floor and you think the rapture floor and you think the rapture floor and you think the rapture happened. happened. happened. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. So that's >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. So that's >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. So that's actually a question uh I emailed a grad actually a question uh I emailed a grad actually a question uh I emailed a grad professor. Yeah. professor. Yeah. professor. Yeah. >> A couple years ago, I was like, I have >> A couple years ago, I was like, I have >> A couple years ago, I was like, I have to do research. How do I know who to to do research. How do I know who to to do research. How do I know who to trust?

trust? trust? >> Yeah. I was like, I really am not sure >> Yeah. I was like, I really am not sure >> Yeah. I was like, I really am not sure about this. about this. about this. >> And um >> And um >> And um >> but that same question you have, I think >> but that same question you have, I think >> but that same question you have, I think it's true a lot of a lot of us. it's true a lot of a lot of us. it's true a lot of a lot of us. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How do you know >> How do you know >> How do you know >> where to graph things from and that it's >> where to graph things from and that it's >> where to graph things from and that it's reliable? reliable? reliable? >> So, I think there's a couple things at >> So, I think there's a couple things at >> So, I think there's a couple things at play from a real practical standpoint. play from a real practical standpoint. play from a real practical standpoint. There's definitely like, you know, you There's definitely like, you know, you There's definitely like, you know, you have, Lord willing, church community and have, Lord willing, church community and have, Lord willing, church community and you have people that you can ask these you have people that you can ask these you have people that you can ask these questions of, your pastors, your small questions of, your pastors, your small questions of, your pastors, your small group leaders, those things from a real group leaders, those things from a real group leaders, those things from a real practical standpoint of what would you practical standpoint of what would you practical standpoint of what would you recommend? Um, I think also that um recommend? Um, I think also that um recommend? Um, I think also that um there are there are schools. I mean, there are there are schools. I mean, there are there are schools. I mean, honestly, if you just look at like uh honestly, if you just look at like uh honestly, if you just look at like uh you know, you're going to pick up a book you know, you're going to pick up a book you know, you're going to pick up a book and you just read their bio, like you're and you just read their bio, like you're and you just read their bio, like you're going to know depending on what their going to know depending on what their going to know depending on what their what schools they've gone to and stuff, what schools they've gone to and stuff, what schools they've gone to and stuff, but from a also just a real super I but from a also just a real super I but from a also just a real super I think practical standpoint when we're think practical standpoint when we're think practical standpoint when we're reading something like Revelation, and I reading something like Revelation, and I reading something like Revelation, and I shared this with our staff recently, shared this with our staff recently, shared this with our staff recently, that if the way that we're viewing it, that if the way that we're viewing it, that if the way that we're viewing it, the way that we're approaching it, the the way that we're approaching it, the the way that we're approaching it, the way we're interpreting it leads us to way we're interpreting it leads us to way we're interpreting it leads us to fear instead of reverence, fear instead of reverence, fear instead of reverence, >> like we're probably not reading it >> like we're probably not reading it >> like we're probably not reading it exactly how God would wanted us to. And exactly how God would wanted us to. And exactly how God would wanted us to. And so take that as questions to community.

so take that as questions to community. so take that as questions to community. Um if it's leading us towards arrogance Um if it's leading us towards arrogance Um if it's leading us towards arrogance instead of humility like I know more instead of humility like I know more instead of humility like I know more than anyone else versus wow Lord like it than anyone else versus wow Lord like it than anyone else versus wow Lord like it should almost inspire awe. Um and then should almost inspire awe. Um and then should almost inspire awe. Um and then the other being if it draws us toward the other being if it draws us toward the other being if it draws us toward apathy instead of really making us on apathy instead of really making us on apathy instead of really making us on fire for the mission of God. if I just fire for the mission of God. if I just fire for the mission of God. if I just don't think we're necessarily reading don't think we're necessarily reading don't think we're necessarily reading the text in the way or approaching it the text in the way or approaching it the text in the way or approaching it the way that uh is is faithful to what the way that uh is is faithful to what the way that uh is is faithful to what God calls us to. And this is another God calls us to. And this is another God calls us to. And this is another reason why I think again I mentioned reason why I think again I mentioned reason why I think again I mentioned earlier community is critical for all of earlier community is critical for all of earlier community is critical for all of this. Yeah. this. Yeah. this. Yeah. >> Like we are made in the image of a >> Like we are made in the image of a >> Like we are made in the image of a communal God, a triune God. And that's communal God, a triune God. And that's communal God, a triune God. And that's because in every part of our lives, because in every part of our lives, because in every part of our lives, including reading scripture, we need including reading scripture, we need including reading scripture, we need community. It's helpful like because we community. It's helpful like because we community. It's helpful like because we do we have our own bents, our own biases do we have our own bents, our own biases do we have our own bents, our own biases that we bring to the text and when we do that we bring to the text and when we do that we bring to the text and when we do it in community then we see others it in community then we see others it in community then we see others approaching it differently and it causes approaching it differently and it causes approaching it differently and it causes us to then reconsider us to then reconsider us to then reconsider >> and it draws us toward humility. So >> and it draws us toward humility. So >> and it draws us toward humility. So >> can I take us back to the rapture for >> can I take us back to the rapture for >> can I take us back to the rapture for just one other thought? Yeah.

just one other thought? Yeah. just one other thought? Yeah. >> Idea. >> Idea. >> Idea. >> Yeah. Because I do think despite despite >> Yeah. Because I do think despite despite >> Yeah. Because I do think despite despite our perspective of where we land on what our perspective of where we land on what our perspective of where we land on what it is and when it happens, I think we it is and when it happens, I think we it is and when it happens, I think we can all agree on one central truth that can all agree on one central truth that can all agree on one central truth that when Jesus returns, we get caught up when Jesus returns, we get caught up when Jesus returns, we get caught up with him to spend eternity. with him to spend eternity. with him to spend eternity. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Yeah. That's right. And so there may be >> Yeah. That's right. And so there may be >> Yeah. That's right. And so there may be some debate about like when it happens some debate about like when it happens some debate about like when it happens and where it's at in the timeline and and where it's at in the timeline and and where it's at in the timeline and exactly who gets left. Like I get it and exactly who gets left. Like I get it and exactly who gets left. Like I get it and and we can debate about those things. and we can debate about those things. and we can debate about those things. They matter. They matter. They matter. >> But all Christians should unite around >> But all Christians should unite around >> But all Christians should unite around the idea that Jesus is coming for his the idea that Jesus is coming for his the idea that Jesus is coming for his church, church, church, >> right? And in the end, we get caught up >> right? And in the end, we get caught up >> right? And in the end, we get caught up to live with him for eternity. And we to live with him for eternity. And we to live with him for eternity. And we can all anchor our lives to that truth. can all anchor our lives to that truth. can all anchor our lives to that truth. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And before that happens, something else >> And before that happens, something else >> And before that happens, something else is going to happen, which is is going to happen, which is is going to happen, which is misconception number seven. misconception number seven. misconception number seven. >> Oh, here we go. Here we go. >> Oh, here we go. Here we go. >> Oh, here we go. Here we go. >> Here it is. The battle of Armageddon >> Here it is. The battle of Armageddon >> Here it is. The battle of Armageddon will be intense. will be intense. will be intense. >> Tell us about the battle. Talk about >> Tell us about the battle. Talk about >> Tell us about the battle. Talk about >> where is it? >> where is it? >> where is it? >> When >> When >> When >> going to happen? >> going to happen? >> going to happen? Uh I mean Revelation talks about it Uh I mean Revelation talks about it Uh I mean Revelation talks about it chapter like 18 to 19 really front part chapter like 18 to 19 really front part chapter like 18 to 19 really front part of of 19. What's interesting is the the of of 19. What's interesting is the the of of 19. What's interesting is the the text describes almost the battle scene text describes almost the battle scene text describes almost the battle scene being formed. It talks about the you being formed. It talks about the you being formed. It talks about the you know the beast gathers his armies and know the beast gathers his armies and know the beast gathers his armies and all that kind of stuff. And then you got all that kind of stuff. And then you got all that kind of stuff. And then you got the rider on the white horse which is the rider on the white horse which is the rider on the white horse which is Jesus. He's coming back and you know Jesus. He's coming back and you know Jesus. He's coming back and you know there's a whole armies beside them. But there's a whole armies beside them. But there's a whole armies beside them. But if you read the text if you read the text if you read the text >> battle never happens.

>> battle never happens. >> battle never happens. >> That's right. like there's there's no >> That's right. like there's there's no >> That's right. like there's there's no fighting that ever happens. And so fighting that ever happens. And so fighting that ever happens. And so there's a description of Jesus in there's a description of Jesus in there's a description of Jesus in chapter 19 that actually says that there chapter 19 that actually says that there chapter 19 that actually says that there was blood on his robe, was blood on his robe, was blood on his robe, >> but the blood is not the blood of the >> but the blood is not the blood of the >> but the blood is not the blood of the people that he kills. people that he kills. people that he kills. >> The blood's his own blood. >> The blood's his own blood. >> The blood's his own blood. >> His own blood. That's right. >> His own blood. That's right. >> His own blood. That's right. >> Because the victory was already >> Because the victory was already >> Because the victory was already solidified at the cross. Mhm. solidified at the cross. Mhm. solidified at the cross. Mhm. >> And so what's interesting about it is >> And so what's interesting about it is >> And so what's interesting about it is when we see Jesus as this king that's when we see Jesus as this king that's when we see Jesus as this king that's going to come and physically slay all going to come and physically slay all going to come and physically slay all these types of armies and stuff, that's these types of armies and stuff, that's these types of armies and stuff, that's what they would have expected the Roman what they would have expected the Roman what they would have expected the Roman Empire to do. Rome was known for its Empire to do. Rome was known for its Empire to do. Rome was known for its domination. It's violence. It's that domination. It's violence. It's that domination. It's violence. It's that kind of stuff. Jesus is the opposite of kind of stuff. Jesus is the opposite of kind of stuff. Jesus is the opposite of Rome. Rome. Rome. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The way that he conquers is actually not >> The way that he conquers is actually not >> The way that he conquers is actually not through violence. through violence. through violence. >> Right. The way that he conquered was >> Right. The way that he conquered was >> Right. The way that he conquered was through sacrificial love. And that's his through sacrificial love. And that's his through sacrificial love. And that's his pathway to victory. pathway to victory. pathway to victory. >> And so what's interesting is you >> And so what's interesting is you >> And so what's interesting is you actually don't see a bloody battle. actually don't see a bloody battle. actually don't see a bloody battle. >> No, >> No, >> No, >> you see a victory on the cross that >> you see a victory on the cross that >> you see a victory on the cross that ultimately sealed the fate of the dragon ultimately sealed the fate of the dragon ultimately sealed the fate of the dragon and the beast who were thrown in the and the beast who were thrown in the and the beast who were thrown in the lake of the fire. And it seals the lake of the fire. And it seals the lake of the fire. And it seals the victory of the people whose lives get victory of the people whose lives get victory of the people whose lives get marked by the Holy Spirit of God. Um, marked by the Holy Spirit of God. Um, marked by the Holy Spirit of God. Um, but nothing really stand. It's like the but nothing really stand. It's like the but nothing really stand. It's like the enemy is not going to fight Jesus enemy is not going to fight Jesus enemy is not going to fight Jesus anyway.

anyway. anyway. He doesn't He doesn't He doesn't >> he he holds no authority when it comes >> he he holds no authority when it comes >> he he holds no authority when it comes to the lamb. So there actually is no to the lamb. So there actually is no to the lamb. So there actually is no actual battle. There's just a victory actual battle. There's just a victory actual battle. There's just a victory scene scene scene >> that was proclaimed at the cross 2,000 >> that was proclaimed at the cross 2,000 >> that was proclaimed at the cross 2,000 years ago. years ago. years ago. >> And it reveals the kind of king that >> And it reveals the kind of king that >> And it reveals the kind of king that Jesus is. Jesus is. Jesus is. >> That's right. That's right. >> That's right. That's right. >> That's right. That's right. >> Different kind of king than what we've >> Different kind of king than what we've >> Different kind of king than what we've seen. And in that same chapter is when seen. And in that same chapter is when seen. And in that same chapter is when um they it says uh in verse 16 on his um they it says uh in verse 16 on his um they it says uh in verse 16 on his robe and on his right on his thigh he robe and on his right on his thigh he robe and on his right on his thigh he has this name written king of kings and has this name written king of kings and has this name written king of kings and lord of lords lord of lords lord of lords >> which is like a direct stab at the >> which is like a direct stab at the >> which is like a direct stab at the establishment of the time because Jesus establishment of the time because Jesus establishment of the time because Jesus is the king of kings and lord of lords is the king of kings and lord of lords is the king of kings and lord of lords not the emperor. And so it's just really not the emperor. And so it's just really not the emperor. And so it's just really cool when you watch it because it's like cool when you watch it because it's like cool when you watch it because it's like it's an it's the exact opposite of how it's an it's the exact opposite of how it's an it's the exact opposite of how the world works is how Jesus comes and the world works is how Jesus comes and the world works is how Jesus comes and reigns again. Like it's so cool. reigns again. Like it's so cool. reigns again. Like it's so cool. >> It feels like such a good reminder that >> It feels like such a good reminder that >> It feels like such a good reminder that if we are expecting Jesus to function if we are expecting Jesus to function if we are expecting Jesus to function and operate in kind of conventional and operate in kind of conventional and operate in kind of conventional terms, we might be wrong.

terms, we might be wrong. terms, we might be wrong. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. he's going to come >> Right. he's going to come >> Right. he's going to come >> on the horse to like conquer is probably >> on the horse to like conquer is probably >> on the horse to like conquer is probably wrong, you know. It's a good reminder. wrong, you know. It's a good reminder. wrong, you know. It's a good reminder. So, So, So, >> and his his return, you know, I love the >> and his his return, you know, I love the >> and his his return, you know, I love the idea of Jesus with a tattoo on his thigh idea of Jesus with a tattoo on his thigh idea of Jesus with a tattoo on his thigh showing up. showing up. showing up. Uh Uh Uh >> cuz you have tattoos, right? >> cuz you have tattoos, right? >> cuz you have tattoos, right? >> No, I have one. I won. Uh the his return >> No, I have one. I won. Uh the his return >> No, I have one. I won. Uh the his return being really the symbolization, the being really the symbolization, the being really the symbolization, the symbolizing that um it's the destruction symbolizing that um it's the destruction symbolizing that um it's the destruction of evil. of evil. of evil. Like I mean all evil is done. It's Like I mean all evil is done. It's Like I mean all evil is done. It's finished. The work is done. finished. The work is done. finished. The work is done. >> And so um I think the symbology is it's >> And so um I think the symbology is it's >> And so um I think the symbology is it's just beautiful. Like just beautiful. Like just beautiful. Like >> um the idea of him winning a battle that >> um the idea of him winning a battle that >> um the idea of him winning a battle that way and and the fact that evil has way and and the fact that evil has way and and the fact that evil has ended. ended. ended. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like >> Like >> Like >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So let's go to the next misconception >> So let's go to the next misconception >> So let's go to the next misconception then because you're you're hitting on then because you're you're hitting on then because you're you're hitting on it. it. it. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. Here it is. Jesus is mostly absent. Here it is. Jesus is mostly absent. Here it is. Jesus is mostly absent. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Okay. The wrong one. >> Okay. The wrong one. >> Okay. The wrong one. >> Number eight. Revelation is mainly about >> Number eight. Revelation is mainly about >> Number eight. Revelation is mainly about fear, anxiety, and destruction. Fear, fear, anxiety, and destruction. Fear, fear, anxiety, and destruction. Fear, anxiety, and destruction. I think we anxiety, and destruction. I think we anxiety, and destruction. I think we talked about this in episode one a talked about this in episode one a talked about this in episode one a little bit, but let's let's touch on little bit, but let's let's touch on little bit, but let's let's touch on touch on it again.

touch on it again. touch on it again. >> Yeah. I I think when you approach this >> Yeah. I I think when you approach this >> Yeah. I I think when you approach this book, uh because of what we've learned book, uh because of what we've learned book, uh because of what we've learned or because of what we've experienced, um or because of what we've experienced, um or because of what we've experienced, um and really because of what we think and really because of what we think and really because of what we think about where we are currently in our about where we are currently in our about where we are currently in our stage of life, and our faith, um stage of life, and our faith, um stage of life, and our faith, um sometimes we bring an approach to the sometimes we bring an approach to the sometimes we bring an approach to the book that has fear at its root. book that has fear at its root. book that has fear at its root. >> Uh and the opposite is true of >> Uh and the opposite is true of >> Uh and the opposite is true of Revelation. And uh it is not a book of Revelation. And uh it is not a book of Revelation. And uh it is not a book of fear. Let me just say that right up fear. Let me just say that right up fear. Let me just say that right up front. front. front. >> Uh the idea is not fear. Uh the idea is >> Uh the idea is not fear. Uh the idea is >> Uh the idea is not fear. Uh the idea is actually hope. And so the goal as in our actually hope. And so the goal as in our actually hope. And so the goal as in our reading of the book uh would be to see reading of the book uh would be to see reading of the book uh would be to see hope in it, to see Jesus in it and the hope in it, to see Jesus in it and the hope in it, to see Jesus in it and the hope that he brings rather than to bring hope that he brings rather than to bring hope that he brings rather than to bring to it this idea of fear. And while the to it this idea of fear. And while the to it this idea of fear. And while the symbology can bring some images that symbology can bring some images that symbology can bring some images that might be fearful in our minds, um when might be fearful in our minds, um when might be fearful in our minds, um when you flip all the way to the end, we find you flip all the way to the end, we find you flip all the way to the end, we find out that we win. And there's no fear in out that we win. And there's no fear in out that we win. And there's no fear in winning, right? Like Um, so it's just a winning, right? Like Um, so it's just a winning, right? Like Um, so it's just a different approach than how I think we different approach than how I think we different approach than how I think we we look at it sometimes. we look at it sometimes. we look at it sometimes. >> Very quickly, give uh maybe Lindsay and >> Very quickly, give uh maybe Lindsay and >> Very quickly, give uh maybe Lindsay and and Sean, give me three reasons, two to and Sean, give me three reasons, two to and Sean, give me three reasons, two to three reasons why it is a book about three reasons why it is a book about three reasons why it is a book about hope. If you can summarize it in in in a hope. If you can summarize it in in in a hope. If you can summarize it in in in a concise way, concise way, concise way, >> I think one is we do know the end.

>> I think one is we do know the end. >> I think one is we do know the end. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Jesus comes back. Um, I think the other >> Jesus comes back. Um, I think the other >> Jesus comes back. Um, I think the other thing is when you read it, you recognize thing is when you read it, you recognize thing is when you read it, you recognize a lot of what we experience, a lot of what we experience, a lot of what we experience, >> suffering, temptations, those things, >> suffering, temptations, those things, >> suffering, temptations, those things, they're not new. they're not new. they're not new. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And Jesus is present and with and >> And Jesus is present and with and >> And Jesus is present and with and encouraging us to continue the walk. encouraging us to continue the walk. encouraging us to continue the walk. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's it. >> That's it. >> That's it. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's real good. That's it. >> That's real good. That's it. >> That's real good. That's it. >> All right. Number nine, cuz you were >> All right. Number nine, cuz you were >> All right. Number nine, cuz you were excited to get to this one. excited to get to this one. excited to get to this one. >> Let's go to this one. Jesus is mostly >> Let's go to this one. Jesus is mostly >> Let's go to this one. Jesus is mostly absent while the world falls apart until absent while the world falls apart until absent while the world falls apart until the very end. the very end. the very end. >> Come on. Who said that? That's R O N G. >> Come on. Who said that? That's R O N G. >> Come on. Who said that? That's R O N G. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Was wrong. >> Was wrong. >> Was wrong. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> R O >> R O >> R O >> Lind is busting out the Bible. >> Lind is busting out the Bible. >> Lind is busting out the Bible. Now Now Now >> I think a couple things here. Uh >> I think a couple things here. Uh >> I think a couple things here. Uh Revelation is anchored around these Revelation is anchored around these Revelation is anchored around these three pictures of Jesus. Revelation one, three pictures of Jesus. Revelation one, three pictures of Jesus. Revelation one, he's this high priest who walks amongst he's this high priest who walks amongst he's this high priest who walks amongst his people. his people. his people. >> Yeah. Revelation five, he's the lamb who >> Yeah. Revelation five, he's the lamb who >> Yeah. Revelation five, he's the lamb who sits on the throne. sits on the throne. sits on the throne. >> And you got, you know, Revelation 19, >> And you got, you know, Revelation 19, >> And you got, you know, Revelation 19, he's the he's the returning king, right?

he's the he's the returning king, right? he's the he's the returning king, right? >> What's interesting in my opinion about >> What's interesting in my opinion about >> What's interesting in my opinion about each one of these anchoring images is it each one of these anchoring images is it each one of these anchoring images is it anchors what happens next. And so you anchors what happens next. And so you anchors what happens next. And so you get the high priest image because what get the high priest image because what get the high priest image because what happens in chapters 2 and three is there happens in chapters 2 and three is there happens in chapters 2 and three is there are letters to these seven churches who are letters to these seven churches who are letters to these seven churches who need to be reminded of the one who's the need to be reminded of the one who's the need to be reminded of the one who's the bridge between them and God who's bridge between them and God who's bridge between them and God who's walking among them and you know, walking walking among them and you know, walking walking among them and you know, walking with them. Mhm. with them. Mhm. with them. Mhm. >> Now, let's go to chapter 19. Uh, what >> Now, let's go to chapter 19. Uh, what >> Now, let's go to chapter 19. Uh, what follows chapter 19 in that image is follows chapter 19 in that image is follows chapter 19 in that image is heaven. And so, it's that returning king heaven. And so, it's that returning king heaven. And so, it's that returning king that ushers in what's what's after. And that ushers in what's what's after. And that ushers in what's what's after. And so, chapter 5, I would argue, is the so, chapter 5, I would argue, is the so, chapter 5, I would argue, is the turning point of the entire book. turning point of the entire book. turning point of the entire book. >> Not only is the lamb on the throne, it >> Not only is the lamb on the throne, it >> Not only is the lamb on the throne, it says he's on the center of the throne. says he's on the center of the throne. says he's on the center of the throne. >> He's at the center of the whole >> He's at the center of the whole >> He's at the center of the whole universe. universe. universe. >> That he's he is on the throne. that he >> That he's he is on the throne. that he >> That he's he is on the throne. that he is reigning and it is peaceful in heaven is reigning and it is peaceful in heaven is reigning and it is peaceful in heaven even though it feels a little chaotic in even though it feels a little chaotic in even though it feels a little chaotic in earth. Right now, why does that matter? earth. Right now, why does that matter? earth. Right now, why does that matter? Because chapter 6 through chapter 18 is Because chapter 6 through chapter 18 is Because chapter 6 through chapter 18 is this tribulation that we've been talking this tribulation that we've been talking this tribulation that we've been talking about. about. about. >> And so, make no mistake about it. In all >> And so, make no mistake about it. In all >> And so, make no mistake about it. In all of those 12, 13 chapters from chapter 6 of those 12, 13 chapters from chapter 6 of those 12, 13 chapters from chapter 6 to chapter 18, where's the lamb?

to chapter 18, where's the lamb? to chapter 18, where's the lamb? >> He's on the throne. >> He's on the throne. >> He's on the throne. >> That's right. That's right. >> That's right. That's right. >> That's right. That's right. >> And he's reigning. He's never left the >> And he's reigning. He's never left the >> And he's reigning. He's never left the throne. and everything that happens throne. and everything that happens throne. and everything that happens uh happens under his rule and reign. And uh happens under his rule and reign. And uh happens under his rule and reign. And there are things that he allows to there are things that he allows to there are things that he allows to happen, happen, happen, >> but ultimately it's all working together >> but ultimately it's all working together >> but ultimately it's all working together for his purpose that all culminate to for his purpose that all culminate to for his purpose that all culminate to the end of his victory. the end of his victory. the end of his victory. >> You know, I remember when my my kids >> You know, I remember when my my kids >> You know, I remember when my my kids were teenagers and they would tell me were teenagers and they would tell me were teenagers and they would tell me that their world was falling apart and I that their world was falling apart and I that their world was falling apart and I would say like, what's actually falling would say like, what's actually falling would say like, what's actually falling apart in your world? Like you're 16. apart in your world? Like you're 16. apart in your world? Like you're 16. Like what's really falling apart? The Like what's really falling apart? The Like what's really falling apart? The picture that we see of John here, his picture that we see of John here, his picture that we see of John here, his world actually is falling apart. Like it world actually is falling apart. Like it world actually is falling apart. Like it the world around him is chaotic, crazy. the world around him is chaotic, crazy. the world around him is chaotic, crazy. His everyone he loves and knows has His everyone he loves and knows has His everyone he loves and knows has died. Like and so he is in this place of died. Like and so he is in this place of died. Like and so he is in this place of like he could quickly say all of this like he could quickly say all of this like he could quickly say all of this stuff is not what I think it is. But stuff is not what I think it is. But stuff is not what I think it is. But what does he do in that moment? He what does he do in that moment? He what does he do in that moment? He highlights Jesus because it's a highlights Jesus because it's a highlights Jesus because it's a recognition that Jesus is not absent. recognition that Jesus is not absent. recognition that Jesus is not absent. Jesus is actually quite present. Y Jesus is actually quite present. Y Jesus is actually quite present. Y >> and he wants to share him with >> and he wants to share him with >> and he wants to share him with everybody. everybody. everybody. >> Yep.

>> Yep. >> Yep. I don't know if we if I should go here, I don't know if we if I should go here, I don't know if we if I should go here, but let's do it. The thing that I've but let's do it. The thing that I've but let's do it. The thing that I've thought a lot about as going through thought a lot about as going through thought a lot about as going through this as well is this as well is this as well is >> often times in our humanity, we can be >> often times in our humanity, we can be >> often times in our humanity, we can be really stubborn. really stubborn. really stubborn. >> Right. Like we can be very prideful. We >> Right. Like we can be very prideful. We >> Right. Like we can be very prideful. We can be very much think that we know it can be very much think that we know it can be very much think that we know it all. all. all. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's only when we're taken to the >> And it's only when we're taken to the >> And it's only when we're taken to the end of our rope, right? whatever that end of our rope, right? whatever that end of our rope, right? whatever that looks like. Uh whether it's through looks like. Uh whether it's through looks like. Uh whether it's through illness, whether it's through family illness, whether it's through family illness, whether it's through family issues, whatever it is, it's only till issues, whatever it is, it's only till issues, whatever it is, it's only till we get to the end of our rope that we get to the end of our rope that we get to the end of our rope that finally we are like, "God, I have finally we are like, "God, I have finally we are like, "God, I have nowhere else to go." nowhere else to go." nowhere else to go." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I can't help but think that some of >> And I can't help but think that some of >> And I can't help but think that some of this is because Jesus is like, I want this is because Jesus is like, I want this is because Jesus is like, I want more of the kids in the kingdom. more of the kids in the kingdom. more of the kids in the kingdom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and it's like some of you are just >> And and it's like some of you are just >> And and it's like some of you are just real stubborn, but I want you with me. real stubborn, but I want you with me. real stubborn, but I want you with me. And and so in a in the upside down And and so in a in the upside down And and so in a in the upside down nature of the kingdom of God, he allows nature of the kingdom of God, he allows nature of the kingdom of God, he allows things so that more would come to him.

things so that more would come to him. things so that more would come to him. And this is then again where um faithful And this is then again where um faithful And this is then again where um faithful suffering comes into play. suffering comes into play. suffering comes into play. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because as those who have chosen to >> Because as those who have chosen to >> Because as those who have chosen to follow him already, as we're follow him already, as we're follow him already, as we're experiencing that and others are experiencing that and others are experiencing that and others are watching, Lord willing, they come and watching, Lord willing, they come and watching, Lord willing, they come and join us in the kingdom. So, join us in the kingdom. So, join us in the kingdom. So, >> I don't know if that's good, >> I don't know if that's good, >> I don't know if that's good, >> but I've been thinking about that a lot. >> but I've been thinking about that a lot. >> but I've been thinking about that a lot. >> Yeah. Be >> Yeah. Be >> Yeah. Be >> building on that, I want you to take the >> building on that, I want you to take the >> building on that, I want you to take the first uh tackle at misconception number first uh tackle at misconception number first uh tackle at misconception number 10. 10. 10. >> There you go. >> Revelation doesn't really apply to my >> Revelation doesn't really apply to my everyday life. everyday life. everyday life. >> Yeah. I honestly that's >> Yeah. I honestly that's >> Yeah. I honestly that's the longsuffering of faith. Like it's a the longsuffering of faith. Like it's a the longsuffering of faith. Like it's a real thing. It It just is. I think um real thing. It It just is. I think um real thing. It It just is. I think um >> we want I said the other day actually in >> we want I said the other day actually in >> we want I said the other day actually in a brainstorm, I think we want the a brainstorm, I think we want the a brainstorm, I think we want the prosperity gospel to be true. prosperity gospel to be true. prosperity gospel to be true. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But it's just not. >> But it's just not. >> But it's just not. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And we actually look more like Jesus >> And we actually look more like Jesus >> And we actually look more like Jesus when we suffer well with him than we when we suffer well with him than we when we suffer well with him than we ever could when things are really great.

ever could when things are really great. ever could when things are really great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And Revelation shows us that. Um and it >> And Revelation shows us that. Um and it >> And Revelation shows us that. Um and it and it there's a constant call back to and it there's a constant call back to and it there's a constant call back to this patient endurance and faithfulness this patient endurance and faithfulness this patient endurance and faithfulness and and he gives us the strength and the and and he gives us the strength and the and and he gives us the strength and the courage to do it and he walks alongside courage to do it and he walks alongside courage to do it and he walks alongside us with it and in the end he is going to us with it and in the end he is going to us with it and in the end he is going to win. So I think you know it it should win. So I think you know it it should win. So I think you know it it should compel us to ask where does my compel us to ask where does my compel us to ask where does my allegiance lie? allegiance lie? allegiance lie? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Where does my first love go to? What is >> Where does my first love go to? What is >> Where does my first love go to? What is the first thing I call on when I am the first thing I call on when I am the first thing I call on when I am facing challenges? Who's the first facing challenges? Who's the first facing challenges? Who's the first person I call? Am I actually picking up person I call? Am I actually picking up person I call? Am I actually picking up the phone and calling or am I actually the phone and calling or am I actually the phone and calling or am I actually going to the one who knows before I even going to the one who knows before I even going to the one who knows before I even know what I need, what to pray for? You know what I need, what to pray for? You know what I need, what to pray for? You know, know, know, >> we've talked about this a lot, but uh >> we've talked about this a lot, but uh >> we've talked about this a lot, but uh one thing we've mentioned is this book one thing we've mentioned is this book one thing we've mentioned is this book is not about uh decoding or answering is not about uh decoding or answering is not about uh decoding or answering all these questions, but about who we all these questions, but about who we all these questions, but about who we are becoming as we read this, who are we are becoming as we read this, who are we are becoming as we read this, who are we who we are becoming today? And so, who we are becoming today? And so, who we are becoming today? And so, >> and anybody want to say a little bit >> and anybody want to say a little bit >> and anybody want to say a little bit more to that just who we're becoming as more to that just who we're becoming as more to that just who we're becoming as we're diving into the scripture? Yeah, we're diving into the scripture? Yeah, we're diving into the scripture? Yeah, you know, I I think uh as I have been you know, I I think uh as I have been you know, I I think uh as I have been reading through this book again in my reading through this book again in my reading through this book again in my life, um I'm at this place of the life, um I'm at this place of the life, um I'm at this place of the recognition that um recognition that um recognition that um John was facing much more extreme John was facing much more extreme John was facing much more extreme circumstances than I ever will.

circumstances than I ever will. circumstances than I ever will. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um and I've been through some tough >> Um and I've been through some tough >> Um and I've been through some tough stuff. Um and I've had to remind myself stuff. Um and I've had to remind myself stuff. Um and I've had to remind myself in moments where I get discouraged. Um in moments where I get discouraged. Um in moments where I get discouraged. Um I'm not exiled to I'm not exiled to I'm not exiled to >> Patmas, >> Patmas, >> Patmas, >> you know. M >> you know. M >> you know. M >> uh I'm not really facing tons of >> uh I'm not really facing tons of >> uh I'm not really facing tons of persecution. persecution. persecution. Um I've seen some tough things and I've Um I've seen some tough things and I've Um I've seen some tough things and I've walked through some hard things, but walked through some hard things, but walked through some hard things, but Jesus has never left me. Jesus has never left me. Jesus has never left me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um and and I just keep finding that same >> Um and and I just keep finding that same >> Um and and I just keep finding that same essential truth that if he never left essential truth that if he never left essential truth that if he never left John and if he never left his church, he John and if he never left his church, he John and if he never left his church, he will never leave me. Um and I always will never leave me. Um and I always will never leave me. Um and I always refer to uh to the end uh to the great refer to uh to the end uh to the great refer to uh to the end uh to the great commission um in Matthew chapter 28 u commission um in Matthew chapter 28 u commission um in Matthew chapter 28 u I'll be with you to the end of the age. I'll be with you to the end of the age. I'll be with you to the end of the age. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, >> like I just hold on to that truth. Um, >> like I just hold on to that truth. Um, >> like I just hold on to that truth. Um, and I've seen so many Christians and I've seen so many Christians and I've seen so many Christians historically who have navigated really historically who have navigated really historically who have navigated really difficult times, real difficult difficult times, real difficult difficult times, real difficult persecution. And who we need to be persecution. And who we need to be persecution. And who we need to be becoming is people who endure suffering becoming is people who endure suffering becoming is people who endure suffering >> um with the hope of the gospel, right? >> um with the hope of the gospel, right? >> um with the hope of the gospel, right? The hope of the good news is found in The hope of the good news is found in The hope of the good news is found in Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. >> And it just reminds me of that truth >> And it just reminds me of that truth >> And it just reminds me of that truth like is so relevant today.

like is so relevant today. like is so relevant today. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. If so, If so, If so, we talked about like Jesus coming back we talked about like Jesus coming back we talked about like Jesus coming back and how should we be living right now? and how should we be living right now? and how should we be living right now? Like should there be urgency? Because we Like should there be urgency? Because we Like should there be urgency? Because we talk about urgency in some ways, but if talk about urgency in some ways, but if talk about urgency in some ways, but if that's the case, why? And how should we that's the case, why? And how should we that's the case, why? And how should we be living? be living? be living? >> We we've referenced that, you know, >> We we've referenced that, you know, >> We we've referenced that, you know, passage where Jesus says that nobody's passage where Jesus says that nobody's passage where Jesus says that nobody's going to know the day or the hour. In going to know the day or the hour. In going to know the day or the hour. In that same passage, he says his coming is that same passage, he says his coming is that same passage, he says his coming is going to be like a thief in the night. going to be like a thief in the night. going to be like a thief in the night. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> He doesn't say that to scare you cuz a >> He doesn't say that to scare you cuz a >> He doesn't say that to scare you cuz a thief in the night is actually pretty thief in the night is actually pretty thief in the night is actually pretty scary. But he says that to create scary. But he says that to create scary. But he says that to create urgency. It's like you don't really know urgency. It's like you don't really know urgency. It's like you don't really know when. And so make sure that there's when. And so make sure that there's when. And so make sure that there's enough urgency that exists in your life enough urgency that exists in your life enough urgency that exists in your life >> that you're not thinking, "Oh, I'll get >> that you're not thinking, "Oh, I'll get >> that you're not thinking, "Oh, I'll get that together someday or I'll come to that together someday or I'll come to that together someday or I'll come to Jesus someday." Uh but no, we need to Jesus someday." Uh but no, we need to Jesus someday." Uh but no, we need to get our lives connected to him today. get our lives connected to him today. get our lives connected to him today. >> Is is really the urgency that creates. >> Is is really the urgency that creates. >> Is is really the urgency that creates. And I pray for our whole church and And I pray for our whole church and And I pray for our whole church and anybody listening to this that the anybody listening to this that the anybody listening to this that the urgency it creates is not just to urgency it creates is not just to urgency it creates is not just to connect my life to Jesus, which I hope connect my life to Jesus, which I hope connect my life to Jesus, which I hope that urgency exists, but we live with that urgency exists, but we live with that urgency exists, but we live with greater urgency on behalf of the people greater urgency on behalf of the people greater urgency on behalf of the people that we love.

that we love. that we love. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah, that's right. >> So, you think about, you know, those who >> So, you think about, you know, those who >> So, you think about, you know, those who currently are facing a Christless currently are facing a Christless currently are facing a Christless eternity. eternity. eternity. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Do we care? >> Do we care? >> Do we care? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Have we grown apathetic to that reality? >> Have we grown apathetic to that reality? >> Have we grown apathetic to that reality? uh do we not really think too much about uh do we not really think too much about uh do we not really think too much about it or are we on our knees on a daily it or are we on our knees on a daily it or are we on our knees on a daily basis pleading for God's movement in the basis pleading for God's movement in the basis pleading for God's movement in the heart and life of the person that we heart and life of the person that we heart and life of the person that we love? And so I do hope that revelation love? And so I do hope that revelation love? And so I do hope that revelation doesn't create I don't hope it creates doesn't create I don't hope it creates doesn't create I don't hope it creates fear, but I certainly hope it creates fear, but I certainly hope it creates fear, but I certainly hope it creates urgency. urgency. urgency. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That let's not >> That let's not >> That let's not >> let's not wait. >> let's not wait. >> let's not wait. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Let's not act like we'll take care of >> Let's not act like we'll take care of >> Let's not act like we'll take care of this years from now. this years from now. this years from now. >> Let's live with urgency today. Let's get >> Let's live with urgency today. Let's get >> Let's live with urgency today. Let's get my life connected to Jesus today and my life connected to Jesus today and my life connected to Jesus today and let's do whatever we possibly can by let's do whatever we possibly can by let's do whatever we possibly can by God's grace to help those that we love God's grace to help those that we love God's grace to help those that we love get connected to him as well. get connected to him as well. get connected to him as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. One of the statistics Sean shared >> Yeah. One of the statistics Sean shared >> Yeah. One of the statistics Sean shared with us recently is like 6.2 million 6.2 with us recently is like 6.2 million 6.2 with us recently is like 6.2 million 6.2 million people in Chicagoland area who million people in Chicagoland area who million people in Chicagoland area who don't know Jesus. don't know Jesus. don't know Jesus. >> Um one of the questions I love to ask is >> Um one of the questions I love to ask is >> Um one of the questions I love to ask is like what keeps you up at night? Um like what keeps you up at night? Um like what keeps you up at night? Um because it just kind of cuts to the because it just kind of cuts to the because it just kind of cuts to the heart and the core of who we are as heart and the core of who we are as heart and the core of who we are as people that keeps me up at night. Um, people that keeps me up at night. Um, people that keeps me up at night. Um, just thinking about the reality that just thinking about the reality that just thinking about the reality that there are six plus million people in the there are six plus million people in the there are six plus million people in the community that I live and serve in who community that I live and serve in who community that I live and serve in who do not know Jesus right now. And you do not know Jesus right now. And you do not know Jesus right now. And you want to talk about a sense of urgency.

want to talk about a sense of urgency. want to talk about a sense of urgency. Um, if there is ever a church that's Um, if there is ever a church that's Um, if there is ever a church that's positioned to reach those people, it's positioned to reach those people, it's positioned to reach those people, it's ours. And so, I find a real deep ours. And so, I find a real deep ours. And so, I find a real deep conviction um, and a real deep urgency conviction um, and a real deep urgency conviction um, and a real deep urgency to know that they don't know Jesus and to know that they don't know Jesus and to know that they don't know Jesus and we have a part to play in them knowing we have a part to play in them knowing we have a part to play in them knowing Jesus. Right. Jesus. Right. Jesus. Right. >> So it should create all kinds of urgency >> So it should create all kinds of urgency >> So it should create all kinds of urgency in us, you know, in us, you know, in us, you know, >> and I think practically lived out that >> and I think practically lived out that >> and I think practically lived out that looks like, you know, like as a mom it looks like, you know, like as a mom it looks like, you know, like as a mom it for me it looks like do I hang out on for me it looks like do I hang out on for me it looks like do I hang out on the school playground for a little while the school playground for a little while the school playground for a little while after school, you know, and get to know after school, you know, and get to know after school, you know, and get to know the other parents? Um, do I the other parents? Um, do I the other parents? Um, do I >> um show up early to the game to find a >> um show up early to the game to find a >> um show up early to the game to find a new parent to get to know, you know? Um, new parent to get to know, you know? Um, new parent to get to know, you know? Um, I think of the individual who doesn't I think of the individual who doesn't I think of the individual who doesn't work in ministry like we do. So who in work in ministry like we do. So who in work in ministry like we do. So who in your office are you getting to know that your office are you getting to know that your office are you getting to know that because the the urgency should be there because the the urgency should be there because the the urgency should be there and compel us to want to build the and compel us to want to build the and compel us to want to build the relationships that build the trust that relationships that build the trust that relationships that build the trust that then people ask us then people ask us then people ask us >> how are you doing this >> how are you doing this >> how are you doing this >> and then we have the opportunity to >> and then we have the opportunity to >> and then we have the opportunity to share the answer that gives us our hope share the answer that gives us our hope share the answer that gives us our hope Jesus.

Jesus. Jesus. >> That's good. I think of the woman at the >> That's good. I think of the woman at the >> That's good. I think of the woman at the well that um she came to at looking for well that um she came to at looking for well that um she came to at looking for water and then Jesus meets her and she water and then Jesus meets her and she water and then Jesus meets her and she ended up not leaving with water but with ended up not leaving with water but with ended up not leaving with water but with purpose and that purpose was I just want purpose and that purpose was I just want purpose and that purpose was I just want to tell people of this man that I just to tell people of this man that I just to tell people of this man that I just met that changed my life and he knows met that changed my life and he knows met that changed my life and he knows everything about me and I want you to everything about me and I want you to everything about me and I want you to meet this man and and I think we ought meet this man and and I think we ought meet this man and and I think we ought to live with that urgency like I want to live with that urgency like I want to live with that urgency like I want you to experience the blessing that I've you to experience the blessing that I've you to experience the blessing that I've experienced. I want you to walk with the experienced. I want you to walk with the experienced. I want you to walk with the man that I'm walking with and I want you man that I'm walking with and I want you man that I'm walking with and I want you to experience that. We ought to live to experience that. We ought to live to experience that. We ought to live with that urgency of come meet this man with that urgency of come meet this man with that urgency of come meet this man >> and and come be restored, come be >> and and come be restored, come be >> and and come be restored, come be changed, come be healed. And um that's changed, come be healed. And um that's changed, come be healed. And um that's how I want to live. I want to live with how I want to live. I want to live with how I want to live. I want to live with that urgency. that urgency. that urgency. >> And people can see your patient >> And people can see your patient >> And people can see your patient endurance uh in your suffering. Right. endurance uh in your suffering. Right. endurance uh in your suffering. Right. They see when you go through hardships They see when you go through hardships They see when you go through hardships and what do you point to? and what do you point to? and what do you point to? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What do you look to? Um how do you >> What do you look to? Um how do you >> What do you look to? Um how do you thrive? How do you survive through those thrive? How do you survive through those thrive? How do you survive through those moments? And when they see a picture moments? And when they see a picture moments? And when they see a picture that looks like Jesus at the end of that looks like Jesus at the end of that looks like Jesus at the end of that, uh, it tells a very clear story. that, uh, it tells a very clear story. that, uh, it tells a very clear story. And I think, um, one of the things that And I think, um, one of the things that And I think, um, one of the things that John is doing here is telling that same John is doing here is telling that same John is doing here is telling that same story.

story. story. >> I've loved this conversation because I >> I've loved this conversation because I >> I've loved this conversation because I feel like we've dug into some of the the feel like we've dug into some of the the feel like we've dug into some of the the questions that, you know, you guys as questions that, you know, you guys as questions that, you know, you guys as pastors are often getting uh, from pastors are often getting uh, from pastors are often getting uh, from people. These are the questions that people. These are the questions that people. These are the questions that people are asking, but what you keep people are asking, but what you keep people are asking, but what you keep reminding us in all of your answers is reminding us in all of your answers is reminding us in all of your answers is what the main thing is, and the main what the main thing is, and the main what the main thing is, and the main thing is Jesus, right, thing is Jesus, right, thing is Jesus, right, >> through all of it. And so, thank you >> through all of it. And so, thank you >> through all of it. And so, thank you guys for sharing not just your wisdom, guys for sharing not just your wisdom, guys for sharing not just your wisdom, but also with humility because at the but also with humility because at the but also with humility because at the end of the day, there are very few end of the day, there are very few end of the day, there are very few things we can be fully certain of, but things we can be fully certain of, but things we can be fully certain of, but we're certain of the things we're we're certain of the things we're we're certain of the things we're certain of. That's right. That's right. certain of. That's right. That's right. certain of. That's right. That's right. >> And so, uh, that's a wrap on this >> And so, uh, that's a wrap on this >> And so, uh, that's a wrap on this episode. One thing, Sean, that you've episode. One thing, Sean, that you've episode. One thing, Sean, that you've talked about is revelation is an talked about is revelation is an talked about is revelation is an opportunity to peel back the curtain on opportunity to peel back the curtain on opportunity to peel back the curtain on kind of the spiritual realm. And so, kind of the spiritual realm. And so, kind of the spiritual realm. And so, that's what we're going to dive into on that's what we're going to dive into on that's what we're going to dive into on episode three is the enemy, resistance, episode three is the enemy, resistance, episode three is the enemy, resistance, kind of the spiritual battle that we're kind of the spiritual battle that we're kind of the spiritual battle that we're engaged in. So, that's going to be a fun engaged in. So, that's going to be a fun engaged in. So, that's going to be a fun conversation. conversation. conversation. >> Can't wait. >> Can't wait. >> Can't wait. >> Yep. Let's do it. >> Yep. Let's do it. >> Yep. Let's do it. >> Forward to it.