Jonathan and Felicia Geukgeuzian - Deeper | Thomas Road Women's Life - Episode 4

Hello everyone, I'm Hello everyone, I'm Mackenzie. Mackenzie. Mackenzie. And I'm Sue. And I'm Sue. And I'm Sue. Welcome back to the Welcome back to the Welcome back to the Deeper podcast. Deeper podcast. Deeper podcast. Yes, we are very happy to have Yes, we are very happy to have Yes, we are very happy to have you with us again. you with us again. you with us again. Us too. Us too. Us too. As I do every week, I have to As I do every week, I have to As I do every week, I have to say that we are the say that we are the Women's Life Ministry at Thomas Road Baptist Church. And while we are Thomas Road Baptist Church. And while we are wrapping up our wrapping up our wrapping up our current current current Bible study, which was Bible study, which was Bible study, which was dedicated to Job, dedicated to Job, dedicated to Job, Thomas Road has a Thomas Road has a Thomas Road has a big November and big November and big November and December ahead of it. Lots of December ahead of it. Lots of December ahead of it. Lots of interesting things for you to get involved interesting things for you to get involved interesting things for you to get involved in. in. in. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. And then we promise a And then we promise a And then we promise a wonderful wonderful wonderful Bible study. We Bible study. We Bible study. We can't say yet what it can't say yet what it can't say yet what it will be, but we are in for a will be, but we are in for a will be, but we are in for a wonderful wonderful wonderful Bible study. Bible study. Bible study. We keep them in suspense We keep them in suspense . . . It will be in January. Yes, It will be in January. Yes, It will be in January. Yes, stay with us. stay with us. stay with us. Stay tuned for Stay tuned for Stay tuned for updates. We are very updates. We are very updates. We are very happy with what happy with what happy with what we have prepared for we have prepared for we have prepared for January. It seems like January. It seems like January. It seems like we only have we only have we only have one week left one week left one week left to study Job, time to study Job, time to study Job, time flies so quickly. flies so quickly. flies so quickly. This really goes by This really goes by This really goes by quickly. Yes, it's hard quickly. Yes, it's hard quickly. Yes, it's hard to believe that November is to believe that November is to believe that November is already here. already here. already here. Oh yes. Oh yes. Oh yes. So, before you So, before you So, before you introduce our introduce our introduce our guests, guests, guests, Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. I have to tell you I have to tell you I have to tell you all that I am the odd one out here all that I am the odd one out here all that I am the odd one out here . I'll probably have to . I'll probably have to . I'll probably have to ask ask ask this family to this family to this family to adopt me, because I'm the only one adopt me, because I'm the only one adopt me, because I'm the only one here without the surname here without the surname here without the surname Gagauzian.

Gagauzian. Gagauzian. Here's a little Here's a little Here's a little spoiler for you. spoiler for you. spoiler for you. Now it's your turn. Now it's your turn. Now it's your turn. We have had many We have had many We have had many wonderful guests so far wonderful guests so far wonderful guests so far . They were . They were . They were funny, they were sad, they funny, they were sad, they funny, they were sad, they were funny, but were funny, but were funny, but I think these are my I think these are my I think these are my favorites. favorites. Your favorites. Your favorites. If you haven't If you haven't If you haven't guessed yet, our guessed yet, our guessed yet, our guests today are guests today are Jonathan and Felicia Jonathan and Felicia Jonathan and Felicia Gagauzian, also known Gagauzian, also known Gagauzian, also known as my mom and dad. as my mom and dad. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here. These are Glad to be here. These are Glad to be here. These are perhaps our perhaps our perhaps our most ardent fans of the most ardent fans of the most ardent fans of the Deeper podcast. So they Deeper podcast. So they Deeper podcast. So they should be. should be. should be. Yes, they should be. Yes, they should be. Yes, they should be. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, I saw all the Yes, I saw all the Yes, I saw all the episodes. episodes. episodes. Well done. Well done. Well done. My number one fan. Did My number one fan. Did My number one fan. Did you see all you see all you see all the episodes too, Dad? the episodes too, Dad? the episodes too, Dad? Certainly. Certainly. Certainly. From beginning to end. From beginning to end. From beginning to end. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Maybe they're under the Maybe they're under the Maybe they're under the table. table. Okay, we always Okay, we always start each start each start each episode the way you episode the way you episode the way you know it since you've know it since you've know it since you've all watched them. all watched them. all watched them. Each and all. Each and all. Each and all. Or so I Or so I Or so I told him. told him. told him. Or you told me, for Or you told me, for Or you told me, for sure. Obviously, I sure. Obviously, I sure. Obviously, I know a lot about your know a lot about your know a lot about your stories. I am stories. I am stories. I am part of them. But I know part of them. But I know part of them. But I know that most that most that most listeners don't.

listeners don't. listeners don't. I'm going to be I'm going to be I'm going to be adopted, I adopted, I adopted, I need to know your need to know your need to know your story. story. story. Exactly. That's right. So, Exactly. That's right. So, Exactly. That's right. So, why don't you both why don't you both why don't you both tell us a little bit about tell us a little bit about tell us a little bit about where you're from, where you where you're from, where you where you're from, where you grew up, and how you grew up, and how you grew up, and how you came to the Lord. came to the Lord. came to the Lord. Give us the initial Give us the initial Give us the initial details. details. Yeah, I was, uh, born Yeah, I was, uh, born in Charlotte, North in Charlotte, North in Charlotte, North Carolina, and lived there for Carolina, and lived there for Carolina, and lived there for a few years before a few years before a few years before my family my family my family moved to moved to moved to Northern Virginia Northern Virginia Northern Virginia to be closer to my to be closer to my to be closer to my grandparents. My grandparents. My grandparents. My grandmother grandmother grandmother passed away unexpectedly, so we lived passed away unexpectedly, so we lived passed away unexpectedly, so we lived in Northern in Northern in Northern Virginia, in the Virginia, in the Virginia, in the Winchester area, and I Winchester area, and I Winchester area, and I spent my spent my spent my childhood and school childhood and school childhood and school years there before years there before years there before coming to Liberty and coming to Liberty and ... ... To Handley High School To Handley High School ? ? ? No, I didn't go to No, I didn't go to Handley High School. Handley High School. And what high And what high And what high school did you study at? school did you study at? school did you study at? At Shenandoah At Shenandoah At Shenandoah Valley Christian Academy Valley Christian Academy Valley Christian Academy , just , just , just off Interstate 81 off Interstate 81 off Interstate 81 . . . On the 11th route. On the 11th route. On the 11th route. You are already part of the family. You are already part of the family. You are already part of the family. Well, because. Well, because. Well, because. Yes. So, yes. I Yes. So, yes. I Yes. So, yes. I mean, this is the land of mean, this is the land of mean, this is the land of apple orchards, as apple orchards, as apple orchards, as you know. you know. you know. Oh, yes.

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Lots of great Lots of great Lots of great memories and just memories and just memories and just lots of fun lots of fun lots of fun moments moments moments growing up. But growing up. But growing up. But then I enrolled at then I enrolled at then I enrolled at Liberty University Liberty University Liberty University for my undergraduate degree and for my undergraduate degree and for my undergraduate degree and studied there for all studied there for all studied there for all four years. four years. four years. M-hm. M-hm. Then he had Then he had the opportunity to serve on the the opportunity to serve on the the opportunity to serve on the Thomas Road staff Thomas Road staff Thomas Road staff while he was in while he was in while he was in seminary and was an seminary and was an seminary and was an assistant pastor of the assistant pastor of the assistant pastor of the high school. At high school. At high school. At the time, it was the time, it was the time, it was Tim Graham's staff. Tim Graham's staff. Tim Graham's staff. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And I worked with him for And I worked with him for And I worked with him for 2 years while I studied 2 years while I studied 2 years while I studied and got my and got my and got my master's degree. And that's where I master's degree. And that's where I master's degree. And that's where I met Felicia when I met Felicia when I met Felicia when I started working at started working at started working at Thomas Road. So I'll Thomas Road. So I'll Thomas Road. So I'll let her let her let her tell the tell the tell the rest of her story a little bit. rest of her story a little bit. rest of her story a little bit. her story, and we will her story, and we will her story, and we will bring them together. bring them together. bring them together. Let's rewind a little Let's rewind a little Let's rewind a little . I'm originally from . I'm originally from . I'm originally from West Virginia. West Virginia. West Virginia. I was born and I was born and I was born and raised there. My family is raised there. My family is raised there. My family is from there. We lived there from there. We lived there from there. We lived there until I went to until I went to until I went to high school. And you high school. And you high school. And you kind of missed that kind of missed that kind of missed that part of the story, but that's where part of the story, but that's where part of the story, but that's where I was I was I was saved and came saved and came saved and came to the Lord in our to the Lord in our to the Lord in our church. I church. I church. I was raised by was raised by was raised by Christian Christian Christian parents, had a wonderful parents, had a wonderful parents, had a wonderful heritage with them, heritage with them, heritage with them, grew up in church, and grew up in church, and grew up in church, and we were there every time the we were there every time the we were there every time the doors were doors were doors were open. We open. We open. We actually actually actually lived across the street lived across the street lived across the street from the church, so from the church, so from the church, so it was convenient.

it was convenient. it was convenient. Sunday morning. Yes, Sunday morning. Yes, Sunday morning. Yes, we didn't have to we didn't have to we didn't have to go to church. go to church. go to church. Sunday morning, Sunday morning, Sunday morning, Sunday evening, Sunday evening, Sunday evening, Wednesday evening, all Wednesday evening, all Wednesday evening, all revival evenings. revival evenings. revival evenings. Every time Every time Every time the door was open, the door was open, the door was open, we were there. And I am very we were there. And I am very we were there. And I am very grateful for this experience grateful for this experience grateful for this experience and the history we and the history we and the history we have because of it. have because of it. have because of it. And then we moved And then we moved And then we moved to Blacksburg for a few to Blacksburg for a few to Blacksburg for a few years while my mom was years while my mom was years while my mom was at the at the at the university studying for her university studying for her university studying for her PhD. And then PhD. And then PhD. And then we moved to we moved to we moved to Liberty or to Liberty or to Liberty or to Lynchburg, went to Lynchburg, went to Lynchburg, went to Liberty. She Liberty. She Liberty. She worked there in worked there in worked there in 1991. So we've been 1991. So we've been 1991. So we've been involved with Thomas involved with Thomas Road and Liberty for a long time, and, um, Road and Liberty for a long time, and, um, Road and Liberty for a long time, and, um, yeah. That's where I went yeah. That's where I went yeah. That's where I went to high school, to to high school, to to high school, to LCA. I started in LCA. I started in LCA. I started in Brookville, Brookville, Brookville, studied there for studied there for studied there for several years. several years. several years. L L D O L L D O L L D O G And then I graduated from LCA G And then I graduated from LCA . Go . Go . Go ahead, dogs. ahead, dogs. ahead, dogs. Yes. Bulldogs, that's it Yes. Bulldogs, that's it . Um, and then I went to . Um, and then I went to . Um, and then I went to Liberty. Um, I went to Liberty. Um, I went to Liberty. Um, I went to nursing school, nursing school, nursing school, got my degree there, got my degree there, got my degree there, and when I graduated, I was and when I graduated, I was and when I graduated, I was finishing my last finishing my last finishing my last year, already year, already year, already married, in married, in married, in nursing school, after nursing school, after nursing school, after we we we MGM. MGM. MGM. um, got married, and he um, got married, and he um, got married, and he worked in Roanoke. worked in Roanoke. worked in Roanoke. Mhm. So yes, you Mhm. So yes, you Mhm. So yes, you missed part of missed part of missed part of the question, but we the question, but we the question, but we can talk a little can talk a little can talk a little about that too.

about that too. about that too. Um, Dad, tell me Um, Dad, tell me Um, Dad, tell me a little bit about how you a little bit about how you a little bit about how you came to salvation, came to salvation, came to salvation, and you and you and you talked earlier about how you talked earlier about how you talked earlier about how you went through a went through a went through a serious period of serious period of serious period of doubt. Can you doubt. Can you doubt. Can you share this with share this with share this with us? us? us? Yeah, um, I knew you Yeah, um, I knew you Yeah, um, I knew you wanted to ask me wanted to ask me wanted to ask me about that, so I was going to about that, so I was going to about that, so I was going to come back come back come back to that topic. to that topic. to that topic. But, uh, it's very similar, I But, uh, it's very similar, I But, uh, it's very similar, I grew up in a strong grew up in a strong grew up in a strong Christian family Christian family . Um, my dad was a . Um, my dad was a . Um, my dad was a pastor, my mom pastor, my mom pastor, my mom was a teacher at a was a teacher at a was a teacher at a Christian school. Christian school. Um, you know, we joke Um, you know, we joke that we were " that we were " pushed" kids pushed" kids pushed" kids because we were dragged to because we were dragged to because we were dragged to church every time the church every time the church every time the doors opened, and, doors opened, and, doors opened, and, um, you know, the interesting thing is that um, you know, the interesting thing is that um, you know, the interesting thing is that I grew up knowing, you I grew up knowing, you I grew up knowing, you know, everything the Bible know, everything the Bible know, everything the Bible had to say, and also had to say, and also had to say, and also went to a went to a went to a Christian school, Christian school, Christian school, and so my dad, when and so my dad, when and so my dad, when I was, I think, I was, I think, I was, I think, 7 years old, would take me 7 years old, would take me 7 years old, would take me on bus on bus on bus tours, and I kind of got my tours, and I kind of got my tours, and I kind of got my hands dirty in hands dirty in hands dirty in ministry, going and ministry, going and ministry, going and visiting the kids that visiting the kids that visiting the kids that we were going to we were going to we were going to pick up on Sunday pick up on Sunday pick up on Sunday mornings on the buses, and my mornings on the buses, and my mornings on the buses, and my dad was the dad was the dad was the bus captain. We had a bus captain. We had a bus captain. We had a bus driver, and that bus driver, and that bus driver, and that was very important to was very important to was very important to my formation, being my formation, being my formation, being part of the part of the part of the ministry and just ministry and just ministry and just observing observing observing what was going on, but what was going on, but what was going on, but before that I very, um, before that I very, um, before that I very, um, vaguely remember vaguely remember that one Sunday that one Sunday night at our church

night at our church night at our church I remember walking I remember walking I remember walking forward. I remember forward. I remember forward. I remember going into another going into another going into another room and talking to room and talking to room and talking to someone about wanting to someone about wanting to someone about wanting to be saved, and the be saved, and the be saved, and the next week next week next week I was baptized, I I was baptized, I I was baptized, I was about 4-5 years old, was about 4-5 years old, was about 4-5 years old, and honestly that's and honestly that's and honestly that's all I remember, I all I remember, I all I remember, I held onto that held onto that held onto that decision as I grew up and decision as I grew up and decision as I grew up and when people asked me when people asked me if I was a Christian. if I was a Christian. Do you know if I am Do you know if I am saved? And I saved? And I saved? And I answered: yes, answered: yes, answered: yes, I remember, I prayed I remember, I prayed I remember, I prayed some kind of prayer, and some kind of prayer, and some kind of prayer, and I was also a fairly I was also a fairly I was also a fairly obedient child. obedient child. obedient child. I had two I had two I had two older brothers, I older brothers, I older brothers, I saw them saw them saw them get into trouble, get into trouble, get into trouble, and I didn't want to get into and I didn't want to get into and I didn't want to get into trouble myself. So I trouble myself. So I trouble myself. So I tried tried tried to follow the rules to follow the rules to follow the rules and do everything I had to, and I also and do everything I had to, and I also and do everything I had to, and I also participated participated participated in the bus ministry in the bus ministry in the bus ministry with my father every with my father every with my father every Saturday morning, because Saturday morning, because Saturday morning, because he was working he was working he was working another job at the time, and I another job at the time, and I another job at the time, and I would go with the would go with the would go with the bus driver, and we would bus driver, and we would bus driver, and we would visit these visit these visit these kids, and then pick them up on kids, and then pick them up on kids, and then pick them up on Sunday morning Sunday morning Sunday morning . We were . We were . We were part of a children's part of a children's part of a children's church, I went to a church, I went to a church, I went to a Christian school, I Christian school, I Christian school, I was a member of the was a member of the was a member of the national national national Christian Christian Christian honor society honor society , I went on , I went on , I went on mission trips mission trips , I was faithful to , I was faithful to , I was faithful to our youth our youth our youth ministry, and all that ministry, and all that ministry, and all that . But when I . But when I . But when I was in high was in high was in high school, I always had school, I always had school, I always had some some some doubt. He would

doubt. He would doubt. He would show up at the show up at the show up at the strangest times and strangest times and strangest times and I would wonder if I was I would wonder if I was I would wonder if I was saved or not, but saved or not, but saved or not, but I usually describe it this I usually describe it this I usually describe it this way: 99.9% of the time I was way: 99.9% of the time I was way: 99.9% of the time I was 100% sure I was 100% sure I was 100% sure I was saved. saved. Fast forward to the present: Fast forward to the present: I went to college, I went to college, I went to college, responded to responded to responded to the call to ministry, the call to ministry, the call to ministry, felt God calling felt God calling felt God calling me to me to me to evangelism evangelism evangelism , and wanted to , and wanted to , and wanted to do youth do youth do youth ministry, so I ministry, so I ministry, so I went through a went through a went through a bachelor's program, served at bachelor's program, served at bachelor's program, served at Thomas Road, and then Thomas Road, and then Thomas Road, and then went to seminary, same thing went to seminary, same thing went to seminary, same thing . And, to be honest, . And, to be honest, . And, to be honest, even during those even during those even during those years it was the same. years it was the same. Many people know that I Many people know that I love to hunt, so love to hunt, so love to hunt, so when I sit in a when I sit in a when I sit in a tree in the stillness of the day, tree in the stillness of the day, tree in the stillness of the day, I always have I always have I always have this nagging this nagging this nagging question: Am I question: Am I question: Am I truly saved? truly saved? Fast forward to now, Fast forward to now, I'm I'm I'm joining a joining a joining a church in Roanoke and I'm church in Roanoke and I'm church in Roanoke and I'm starting to serve as a starting to serve as a starting to serve as a youth pastor there, and I youth pastor there, and I youth pastor there, and I remember one remember one remember one night when Felisha night when Felisha night when Felisha was working at the hospital, the was working at the hospital, the was working at the hospital, the guys I guys I guys I always played ball with always played ball with always played ball with called me called me called me and said, "Hey, man, and said, "Hey, man, and said, "Hey, man, we're going to we're going to we're going to play in the gym," and it was already play in the gym," and it was already play in the gym," and it was already starting to rain, and they're starting to rain, and they're starting to rain, and they're like, "Hey, are you coming?

like, "Hey, are you coming? We need 10 people to We need 10 people to play a full play a full play a full game," and I'm like, "Yeah," game," and I'm like, "Yeah," game," and I'm like, "Yeah," but that was one of those but that was one of those but that was one of those moments where I moments where I moments where I started to really started to really started to really doubt myself. And, doubt myself. And, doubt myself. And, you know, when I think about you know, when I think about you know, when I think about it now, I feel like it now, I feel like it now, I feel like I had an I had an I had an epiphany then. epiphany then. Mhm. Mhm. And I was so And I was so And I was so scared that I was afraid to scared that I was afraid to scared that I was afraid to even get behind the wheel even get behind the wheel . . . Oh. Oh. Oh. So I called So I called So I called my friends and said, "Hey, my friends and said, "Hey, my friends and said, "Hey, guys, there's something going on here. guys, there's something going on here. guys, there's something going on here. I can't make it." Because I can't make it." Because I can't make it." Because I didn't want to drive all the way across I didn't want to drive all the way across I didn't want to drive all the way across town. town. town. Yes. Yes. Yes. So I wrote to my So I wrote to my So I wrote to my senior pastor, under senior pastor, under senior pastor, under whose leadership I was whose leadership I was whose leadership I was serving at the time. And just serving at the time. And just serving at the time. And just asked, "Hey, do you have asked, "Hey, do you have asked, "Hey, do you have time to talk?" And he time to talk?" And he time to talk?" And he gets a call from gets a call from gets a call from his youth his youth his youth pastor or a pastor or a pastor or a text, and he says, text, and he says, text, and he says, "I'm wallpapering my wife right now "I'm wallpapering my wife right now "I'm wallpapering my wife right now . Can we . Can we . Can we meet tomorrow?" And meet tomorrow?" And meet tomorrow?" And I thought, "Oh, I don't I thought, "Oh, I don't I thought, "Oh, I don't know if I want to know if I want to know if I want to put this off," but put this off," but put this off," but I said, "Yeah, okay."

I said, "Yeah, okay." I said, "Yeah, okay." Mhm. Mhm. That night I went to bed That night I went to bed terribly terribly terribly nervous, and in the morning I nervous, and in the morning I nervous, and in the morning I got up, went to got up, went to got up, went to Pastor Pastor Pastor Mike's office, and just laid it all out Mike's office, and just laid it all out Mike's office, and just laid it all out . I said, " . I said, " This is what I'm struggling with." And This is what I'm struggling with." And This is what I'm struggling with." And you know, I told him, you know, I told him, "I'm willing to go "I'm willing to go work at Walmart if work at Walmart if work at Walmart if you need me to step down you need me to step down you need me to step down , but I'm , but I'm , but I'm just tired of living just tired of living just tired of living with these doubts." And with these doubts." And Pastor Mike was a Pastor Mike was a real pastor, real pastor, real pastor, he just said, " he just said, " Jonathan, I know Jonathan, I know Jonathan, I know you don't know what you you don't know what you you don't know what you did then, did then, Mhm. Mhm. but you can know it but you can know it but you can know it now." now." now." Mhm. Mhm. And he said, "If you And he said, "If you want to deal with this want to deal with this want to deal with this , we , we , we can do it can do it can do it right here and right right here and right right here and right now." And I sat there in now." And I sat there in now." And I sat there in his office and his office and his office and said, "I want to said, "I want to said, "I want to do this."

do this." do this." Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So, you know, I'm So, you know, I'm So, you know, I'm serving here on the state as a serving here on the state as a serving here on the state as a student pastor. student pastor. student pastor. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I just said: " And I just said: " Lord, You know, that's Lord, You know, that's Lord, You know, that's all." I want to all." I want to all." I want to finally finally finally decide and follow You decide and follow You decide and follow You . We finished, and . We finished, and . We finished, and I asked, "Do I I asked, "Do I I asked, "Do I need to need to need to resign?" He replied resign?" He replied : "Not at all." He : "Not at all." He : "Not at all." He said, "I would really said, "I would really said, "I would really like you to like you to like you to go ahead and just go ahead and just go ahead and just share your share your share your testimony with our testimony with our testimony with our students." And the students." And the students." And the next Sunday I next Sunday I next Sunday I was baptized, because, again was baptized, because, again was baptized, because, again , I couldn't remember , I couldn't remember what I was doing when I was four what I was doing when I was four what I was doing when I was four . I didn't know what I . I didn't know what I . I didn't know what I said then. I said then. I said then. I only had a only had a only had a baptismal certificate that I baptismal certificate that I baptismal certificate that I found, which had a found, which had a found, which had a date on it, but I did date on it, but I did date on it, but I did n't remember anything. From n't remember anything. From n't remember anything. From that moment on, I that moment on, I that moment on, I never had never had never had periods of doubt, because periods of doubt, because periods of doubt, because I know what I know, I know what I know, I know what I know, you know? It was a you know? It was a you know? It was a unique journey for unique journey for unique journey for me, and honestly, it me, and honestly, it me, and honestly, it was fun was fun was fun to tell to tell to tell my friends from school about it my friends from school about it . They were all saying, " . They were all saying, " Dude, if anyone Dude, if anyone Dude, if anyone was saved, we was saved, we was saved, we thought it was you." I thought it was you." I thought it was you." I was living the right was living the right was living the right way, but way, but way, but at the same time I didn't have at the same time I didn't have at the same time I didn't have the the the conviction that I had conviction that I had conviction that I had truly repented and truly repented and truly repented and trusted Christ on my trusted Christ on my trusted Christ on my own terms, own terms, own terms, coming to Him.

coming to Him. One of the reasons I One of the reasons I share this with share this with share this with students is because students is because students is because during those during those during those doubts, I reached out doubts, I reached out doubts, I reached out to some of the to some of the to some of the staff at our staff at our staff at our church and school. That's what church and school. That's what I always tell I always tell I always tell students: never students: never students: never do that, because they do that, because they do that, because they looked at me and looked at me and looked at me and said, "Well, if said, "Well, if said, "Well, if anyone is saved, it anyone is saved, it anyone is saved, it 's you." You're just 's you." You're just 's you." You're just going through going through going through doubts right now. They just doubts right now. They just doubts right now. They just patted me on the patted me on the patted me on the back, and that was back, and that was back, and that was only enough for a only enough for a only enough for a short time. They short time. They short time. They brushed it off brushed it off brushed it off . Yes. . Yes. . Yes. But then these thoughts But then these thoughts But then these thoughts kept coming back kept coming back . I'm grateful to Pastor . I'm grateful to Pastor . I'm grateful to Pastor Mike for Mike for Mike for simply saying, " simply saying, " Look, I can't Look, I can't Look, I can't tell you what happened in the tell you what happened in the tell you what happened in the past, but we past, but we past, but we can can can fix it." So that fix it." So that fix it." So that was my path. And, was my path. And, was my path. And, you know, even my you know, even my you know, even my parents were a little parents were a little parents were a little surprised, but surprised, but surprised, but at the same time they were at the same time they were at the same time they were very happy that I was able to, very happy that I was able to, very happy that I was able to, well, you know, get well, you know, get well, you know, get confirmation of this confirmation of this confirmation of this in my own life. in my own life. in my own life. Mhm. This is incredible. Mhm. This is incredible. Mhm. This is incredible. So, do So, do So, do you feel like that has changed a little bit how you feel like that has changed a little bit how you feel like that has changed a little bit how you you you talk about it with talk about it with talk about it with your students, and has your students, and has your students, and has it changed how you it changed how you it changed how you mentor young mentor young mentor young believers or even believers or even believers or even your students?

your students? Yes, definitely, Yes, definitely, because it shaped my because it shaped my because it shaped my perspective on how to perspective on how to perspective on how to share the Gospel share the Gospel share the Gospel with people and help with people and help with people and help them understand that them understand that them understand that it's not about it's not about it's not about intellectual intellectual intellectual knowledge, it's not about everything knowledge, it's not about everything knowledge, it's not about everything you do. The point is what you do. The point is what Christ did. Christ did. Yes. Yes. Yes. And so it has become an And so it has become an And so it has become an important part of important part of important part of how I try to how I try to how I try to communicate to communicate to communicate to students or students or anyone I talk to anyone I talk to anyone I talk to about what it means about what it means about what it means to follow Christ, to follow Christ, to follow Christ, because as the Scripture says, because as the Scripture says, because as the Scripture says, even the devil and even the devil and even the devil and demons believe. demons believe. demons believe. Yes. Yes. Yes. But without repentance. So But without repentance. So But without repentance. So for me, the key for me, the key for me, the key was realizing that was realizing that was realizing that I had sincerely I had sincerely I had sincerely repented of my repented of my repented of my sins, converted, and sins, converted, and sins, converted, and trusted only in trusted only in trusted only in Christ. Christ. Christ. Yes. Thank you for Yes. Thank you for Yes. Thank you for sharing this. sharing this. I can understand because I can understand because my experience is similar: I my experience is similar: I my experience is similar: I wasn't in ministry, but wasn't in ministry, but wasn't in ministry, but I had what I thought was a I had what I thought was a I had what I thought was a salvation experience as a salvation experience as a salvation experience as a child, and then I child, and then I child, and then I started to doubt it started to doubt it started to doubt it until I became an adult until I became an adult until I became an adult and solidified it and solidified it and solidified it permanently. But don't permanently. But don't permanently. But don't you think that when you think that when you think that when you share this, it you share this, it you share this, it makes other people makes other people makes other people say, "Oh, I've had say, "Oh, I've had say, "Oh, I've had that feeling too," and it's that feeling too," and it's that feeling too," and it's like God's perfect like God's perfect like God's perfect time and place to give time and place to give time and place to give you something that people you something that people you something that people can can can relate to.

relate to. Yes. And I've even Yes. And I've even talked to people and talked to people and talked to people and they've asked, "Well, they've asked, "Well, they've asked, "Well, you know, how has you know, how has you know, how has your life changed?" And your life changed?" And your life changed?" And outwardly, my life has outwardly, my life has outwardly, my life has n't changed much. n't changed much. You know, it wasn't You know, it wasn't such an amazing such an amazing such an amazing conversion, where I was conversion, where I was conversion, where I was living in rebellion and suddenly living in rebellion and suddenly living in rebellion and suddenly started walking in the spirit, started walking in the spirit, started walking in the spirit, but it was an inner but it was an inner but it was an inner peace that I did peace that I did peace that I did n't have before. And n't have before. And n't have before. And you know, that's the you know, that's the you know, that's the thing: one of my thing: one of my thing: one of my friends asked, "Well, do friends asked, "Well, do friends asked, "Well, do you think you just you think you just you think you just rededicated your rededicated your rededicated your life?" And I said, " life?" And I said, " I have no idea, but what I have no idea, but what I have no idea, but what I do know for sure is that I do know for sure is that I do know for sure is that one day one day one day when I stand before the when I stand before the when I stand before the Lord," Lord," Lord," Mhm. " Mhm. " I am sure that my I am sure that my I am sure that my name is written in the name is written in the name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life." And was it Lamb's Book of Life." And was it Lamb's Book of Life." And was it when I when I when I was 4 years old, was 4 years old, was 4 years old, Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. or when I was a or when I was a or when I was a student student student pastor, pastor, pastor, MGM. MGM. MGM. I don't know exactly when I don't know exactly when I don't know exactly when that date was, so to that date was, so to that date was, so to speak. Um, but I speak. Um, but I speak. Um, but I just know, um, that since then just know, um, that since then just know, um, that since then I've had no I've had no I've had no doubts doubts doubts about my salvation. about my salvation. about my salvation. I tell people that you can't re I tell people that you can't re I tell people that you can't re -consecrate -consecrate -consecrate something that wasn't originally something that wasn't originally something that wasn't originally consecrated.

consecrated. consecrated. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's good. Okay, you That's good. Okay, you That's good. Okay, you talked a little bit about talked a little bit about talked a little bit about Pastor Mike and Pastor Mike and Pastor Mike and your time, um, serving your time, um, serving your time, um, serving under under under Tim Greenstaff. Why do Tim Greenstaff. Why do Tim Greenstaff. Why do n't you tell n't you tell n't you tell us the story of how us the story of how us the story of how you met, started you met, started you met, started dating, and dating, and dating, and got married? got married? Okay, well, Okay, well, and then I, I'll hook and then I, I'll hook and then I, I'll hook you up. you up. you up. We, we'll let you We, we'll let you We, we'll let you fill in the blanks, fill in the blanks, fill in the blanks, okay? okay? okay? when we get to when we get to when we get to that. that. that. Um, so in seminary, Um, so in seminary, Um, so in seminary, um, you know, that was the um, you know, that was the um, you know, that was the number one question number one question number one question that that that Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. you know, um, hey, are you you know, um, hey, are you you know, um, hey, are you dating anyone? dating anyone? dating anyone? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And everything is so different. And, and And everything is so different. And, and And everything is so different. And, and you know, I've had you know, I've had , you know, different , you know, different , you know, different relationships in the past, relationships in the past, relationships in the past, but nothing where but nothing where but nothing where I felt like God had I felt like God had I felt like God had brought someone to brought someone to brought someone to walk alongside me in walk alongside me in walk alongside me in my calling to my calling to my calling to ministry. And I remember ministry. And I remember we were supposed to have a we were supposed to have a we were supposed to have a Christmas party, a Christmas party, a Christmas party, a church Christmas church Christmas church Christmas party, which was party, which was party, which was coming up. coming up. coming up. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And you could bring your And you could bring your And you could bring your wife, your loved wife, your loved wife, your loved one, or someone else with you. one, or someone else with you. one, or someone else with you. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And everyone was asking, " And everyone was asking, " Hey, are you going to Hey, are you going to Hey, are you going to marry someone?" marry someone?" marry someone?" I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Are you going to Are you going to Are you going to marry someone? And I simply marry someone? And I simply marry someone? And I simply replied: "I'm replied: "I'm replied: "I'm fine." They, they were fine." They, they were fine." They, they were suggesting people and suggesting people and suggesting people and saying, "What about saying, "What about saying, "What about this person?" "What this person?" "What this person?" "What about this person?" I about this person?" I about this person?" I simply replied, " simply replied, " simply replied, " I'm fine." I'm I'm fine." I'm I'm fine." I'm fine. Um, and at fine. Um, and at fine. Um, and at that time we were doing these, that time we were doing these, that time we were doing these, um, uh, these um, uh, these um, uh, these service teams. And service teams. And service teams. And Kenzie loves Kenzie loves Kenzie loves service.

service. service. This is true. This is true. This is true. I really love I really love I really love ministry teams. ministry teams. ministry teams. So, uh, and it was, uh, a So, uh, and it was, uh, a So, uh, and it was, uh, a fun time to, uh, fun time to, uh, fun time to, uh, be able to be a be able to be a be able to be a part of that. Um, part of that. Um, part of that. Um, but I watched the but I watched the Living Proof ministry teams in Living Proof ministry teams in high school, and high school, and high school, and one particular leader on the one particular leader on the one particular leader on the gymnastics team gymnastics team , , A. A. That's what I love. That's what I love. That's what I love. She loves it. She loves it. She loves it. Well, it caught my Well, it caught my Well, it caught my attention, and I just attention, and I just attention, and I just said, "Hmm, she said, "Hmm, she said, "Hmm, she seems interesting." "And seems interesting." "And seems interesting." "And so, uh, I didn't say a so, uh, I didn't say a so, uh, I didn't say a word to anyone, because, uh, word to anyone, because, uh, word to anyone, because, uh, everyone wanted to everyone wanted to everyone wanted to try playing try playing try playing Cupid." And so, uh, I did Cupid." And so, uh, I did Cupid." And so, uh, I did n't think n't think n't think Thomas Road today? Thomas Road today? Thomas Road today? Yes. Some things Yes. Some things Yes. Some things never change. never change. never change. Um, but one day I was Um, but one day I was Um, but one day I was sitting in the sitting in the sitting in the student student student ministry office, working, and lo and ministry office, working, and lo and ministry office, working, and lo and behold, behold, Chuck's old Thomas Road, Chuck's old Thomas Road, old Thomas Road, in the old Thomas Road, in the old Thomas Road, in the old PowerSource building old PowerSource building , um, and lo and behold , um, and lo and behold , um, and lo and behold , Felicia , Felicia , Felicia walks in the door, and I walks in the door, and I walks in the door, and I was just was just was just taken by surprise taken by surprise . I thought, "There she is." . I thought, "There she is." "And she came to "And she came to talk to the talk to the talk to the school pastor, school pastor, school pastor, and it was Brian and it was Brian and it was Brian Beloy, to tell Beloy, to tell Beloy, to tell him that she couldn't be the him that she couldn't be the him that she couldn't be the group leader that Wednesday group leader that Wednesday group leader that Wednesday night because she night because she night because she had a practice or had a practice or had a practice or something. So she something. So she something. So she dropped by to let him know dropped by to let him know dropped by to let him know , and then she left, , and then she left, , and then she left, and I was like, 'Oh my God, how and I was like, 'Oh my God, how ...'

...' ...' Like a deer in the headlights. Like a deer in the headlights. Like a deer in the headlights. Yeah. That day, everyone Yeah. That day, everyone Yeah. That day, everyone went to lunch. They went to lunch. They went to lunch. They invited me, and I invited me, and I invited me, and I said, 'No thanks. said, 'No thanks. said, 'No thanks. I have to I have to I have to work.'" "When work.'" "When work.'" "When everyone left, I found everyone left, I found everyone left, I found a directory with the a directory with the a directory with the leader numbers and said to myself, leader numbers and said to myself, 'I'll just do it.' 'I'll just do it.' 'I'll just do it.' I'll just call I'll just call I'll just call her." her." her." Yeah. Yeah. I dialed the number and... I dialed the number and... on a landline on a landline on a landline . . . On a home phone. On a home phone. On a home phone. On a home phone. On a home phone. On a home phone. Not a text Not a text Not a text message. message. message. On a good old On a good old On a good old home phone. home phone. home phone. That's right. That's right. That's right. I asked, "Is I asked, "Is I asked, "Is Felicia there?" She Felicia there?" She Felicia there?" She said, "It's me." So said, "It's me." So said, "It's me." So I said, "Hi, I I said, "Hi, I I said, "Hi, I know you may not know you may not know you may not know me, but...would know me, but...would know me, but...would you like to come to you like to come to you like to come to our Christmas our Christmas our Christmas staff banquet?" staff banquet?" staff banquet?" So crazy. So crazy. So crazy. And she said, " And she said, " Yes." Yes." Yes." What a crazy first What a crazy first What a crazy first date. What's even date. What's even date. What's even crazier is that I was supposed to be crazier is that I was supposed to be crazier is that I was supposed to be working that working that working that night. I had a night. I had a night. I had a job and I job and I job and I took time off because I was took time off because I was took time off because I was sick. We're not going to sick. We're not going to sick. We're not going to say where. say where. say where. It wasn't in the It wasn't in the It wasn't in the hospital yet. I was still hospital yet. I was still hospital yet. I was still studying studying studying nursing. nursing. nursing. So I called So I called So I called and said I wasn't and said I wasn't and said I wasn't coming to go to... the coming to go to... the staff Christmas party.

staff Christmas party. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Our first Our first Our first date. date. date. So you went to the So you went to the So you went to the party, and welcome party, and welcome party, and welcome to the ministry. to the ministry. to the ministry. Yeah. Yeah. We walked in, and everyone, when We walked in, and everyone, when they saw her next to they saw her next to they saw her next to me, was like, "Oh my God." me, was like, "Oh my God." How did we not know? How did we not know? And I was like... And I was like... And I was like... Because I knew all the people from Because I knew all the people from Because I knew all the people from Thomas Road and the Thomas Road and the Thomas Road and the ministry, and I was involved in ministry, and I was involved in ministry, and I was involved in all this. So... all this. So... all this. So... We were sitting at one of We were sitting at one of We were sitting at one of those big round those big round those big round tables where there are tables where there are tables where there are eight or ten people and everyone eight or ten people and everyone eight or ten people and everyone is talking. We is talking. We is talking. We never got a chance never got a chance never got a chance to talk. When it was all to talk. When it was all to talk. When it was all over, I over, I over, I thought, "Well, this "It thought, "Well, this "It thought, "Well, this "It 's ridiculous." I 's ridiculous." I 's ridiculous." I didn't even talk to her. didn't even talk to her. didn't even talk to her. So I said, "Hey, So I said, "Hey, So I said, "Hey, do you want to get some coffee?" do you want to get some coffee?" do you want to get some coffee?" This was before This was before This was before Starbucks. And we went to this Starbucks. And we went to this Starbucks. And we went to this place that's still in place that's still in place that's still in Lynchburg, N T's. Lynchburg, N T's. Lynchburg, N T's. We We We went and sat down there on Grace Hill, I went and sat down there on Grace Hill, I went and sat down there on Grace Hill, I ordered a coffee, she ordered a coffee, she ordered a coffee, she ordered a coffee, and... ordered a coffee, and... Why don't you Why don't you tell us about the tell us about the tell us about the coffee? coffee? coffee? Yeah. So, the coffee that I Yeah. So, the coffee that I Yeah. So, the coffee that I ordered. I think I ordered. I think I ordered. I think I ordered a ordered a ordered a French vanilla coffee, French vanilla coffee, French vanilla coffee, because I don't drink coffee.

because I don't drink coffee. I know Mackenzie doesn't I know Mackenzie doesn't drink coffee. drink coffee. So I got this nice So I got this nice big cup of coffee and I big cup of coffee and I big cup of coffee and I just stirred it. just stirred it. just stirred it. I like it. I do I like it. I do I like it. I do n't think I... I might n't think I... I might n't think I... I might have taken a sip, I'm not have taken a sip, I'm not have taken a sip, I'm not sure, but I don't... sure, but I don't... My dad drinks coffee. My My dad drinks coffee. My My dad drinks coffee. My mom doesn't drink coffee. I don't mom doesn't drink coffee. I don't mom doesn't drink coffee. I don't drink coffee. But... drink coffee. But... drink coffee. But... And it never And it never And it never occurred to me... Did occurred to me... Did occurred to me... Did you notice? you notice? you notice? Like, why didn't I Like, why didn't I Like, why didn't I order hot order hot order hot chocolate or tea? I can't chocolate or tea? I can't chocolate or tea? I can't think about think about think about things like that. things like that. things like that. Too busy Too busy Too busy looked into your eyes. looked into your eyes. looked into your eyes. Same thing, right? Those Same thing, right? Those Same thing, right? Those blue eyes. blue eyes. blue eyes. Yeah. It wasn't until later that she Yeah. It wasn't until later that she Yeah. It wasn't until later that she told someone this told someone this told someone this story, and I just story, and I just story, and I just thought, thought, thought, Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. You're right. I don't Hmm. You're right. I don't Hmm. You're right. I don't remember you ever remember you ever remember you ever drinking that coffee, and that drinking that coffee, and that drinking that coffee, and that kind of started kind of started kind of started our journey, you know, of our journey, you know, of our journey, you know, of dating and... dating and... dating and... How long had you How long had you How long had you been dating? A been dating? A been dating? A Christmas Christmas Christmas party in December. I did party in December. I did party in December. I did go home. go home. go home. Oh yeah. Tell me. Oh yeah. Tell me. Oh yeah. Tell me. I went home, and I went home, and I went home, and my mom and dad my mom and dad my mom and dad were out of town that week. were out of town that week. were out of town that week. But I told them, I But I told them, I But I told them, I think I told think I told think I told them when they them when they them when they got back, and I got back, and I got back, and I told my sisters, "I'm told my sisters, "I'm told my sisters, "I'm going to marry this going to marry this going to marry this man." After the man." After the man." After the first date.

first date. first date. Wow. At first, it was crazy Wow. At first, it was crazy . We went on a few . We went on a few . We went on a few more dates in more dates in more dates in December, and then we December, and then we December, and then we got engaged in May. He got engaged in May. He got engaged in May. He proposed in May, proposed in May, proposed in May, and then we... and then we... and then we... At Sharp Top? At Sharp Top? At Sharp Top? No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had a picture of had a picture of had a picture of him on the beach. Like him on the beach. Like , put on a whole , put on a whole , put on a whole production and all that production and all that . But yeah, . But yeah, . But yeah, we we we got engaged at Sharp Top, and we got engaged at Sharp Top, and we got married the next May. got married the next May. Oh. Oh. Oh. And here we are. It'll be And here we are. It'll be And here we are. It'll be 29 years this May 29 years this May 29 years this May . . . Well, it's crazy. Oh Well, it's crazy. Oh Well, it's crazy. Oh my God. So, Mom, my God. So, Mom, my God. So, Mom, for you, what's it like--it's for you, what's it like--it's been 29 years, Dad, been 29 years, Dad, been 29 years, Dad, all that time in the all that time in the all that time in the ministry. What's it like for ministry. What's it like for ministry. What's it like for you--being a you--being a you--being a pastor's wife, a pastor's wife, a pastor's wife, a minister's wife, when you're in minister's wife, when you're in minister's wife, when you're in another profession? You another profession? You another profession? You said it before, but you're a said it before, but you're a said it before, but you're a nurse. You're still a nurse. You're still a nurse. You're still a nurse. So, what's nurse. So, what's nurse. So, what's it like? it like? it like? So, if we So, if we So, if we go back a little bit to my go back a little bit to my go back a little bit to my childhood, my mom childhood, my mom childhood, my mom started out as started out as started out as a teacher, and I knew I a teacher, and I knew I a teacher, and I knew I wanted to be either a wanted to be either a wanted to be either a teacher or a teacher or a teacher or a nurse. nurse. nurse. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So, Mom had, if So, Mom had, if So, Mom had, if you remember the old you remember the old you remember the old textbooks, your mom textbooks, your mom textbooks, your mom was a teacher too, was a teacher too, was a teacher too, those teacher's those teacher's those teacher's textbooks for textbooks for textbooks for math and other math and other math and other subjects, for reading, they had subjects, for reading, they had subjects, for reading, they had all the all the all the answers in them. I used to answers in them. I used to answers in them. I used to take Mom's old take Mom's old take Mom's old textbooks and teach her textbooks and teach her textbooks and teach her my imaginary classroom my imaginary classroom my imaginary classroom at home. I had at home. I had at home. I had students, so I was students, so I was students, so I was going to be either going to be either going to be either a teacher or a a teacher or a a teacher or a nurse. And as I nurse. And as I nurse. And as I got older, I got older, I got older, I felt a calling felt a calling felt a calling to be a nurse, and I to be a nurse, and I to be a nurse, and I really feel like really feel like really feel like it's a calling, a kind of it's a calling, a kind of it's a calling, a kind of ministry, and I ministry, and I ministry, and I try to take care of try to take care of try to take care of my patients and my patients and my patients and their families. I their families. I their families. I work in the neonatal work in the neonatal work in the neonatal intensive care unit now intensive care unit now intensive care unit now . And as . And as . And as part of ministry, you part of ministry, you part of ministry, you get to

get to get to see them on their see them on their see them on their worst days. They don't worst days. They don't worst days. They don't want to be there. They want to be there. They want to be there. They don't want to be there -- whether it's don't want to be there -- whether it's don't want to be there -- whether it's labor, or a sick labor, or a sick labor, or a sick baby, or a premature baby, or a premature baby, or a premature baby, or something like that. baby, or something like that. baby, or something like that. They don't want to They don't want to They don't want to be there. So I be there. So I be there. So I use it as an use it as an use it as an opportunity for opportunity for opportunity for ministry to ministry to ministry to try to help try to help try to help them through those situations. them through those situations. them through those situations. But But But the day that was supposed to be the day that was supposed to be the day that was supposed to be the happiest day, and the happiest day, and the happiest day, and suddenly it becomes, suddenly it becomes, suddenly it becomes, you know, you know, you know, really hard, and, well, you really hard, and, well, you really hard, and, well, you know, I think God know, I think God know, I think God puts us in a puts us in a puts us in a little bit of a jump. little bit of a jump. little bit of a jump. After I'd After I'd After I'd been a been a been a nurse full-time for nurse full-time for nurse full-time for three years, three years, three years, Mackenzie Mackenzie Mackenzie was actually in the NICU. Not as was actually in the NICU. Not as was actually in the NICU. Not as long as the others, but long as the others, but long as the others, but still not what I had still not what I had still not what I had planned. Full-blown planned. Full-blown planned. Full-blown pregnancy and all that pregnancy and all that . And I think God . And I think God . And I think God even used that even used that even used that part of my story to make part of my story to make part of my story to make me more me more me more empathetic to the parents, the empathetic to the parents, the empathetic to the parents, the moms and dads out there moms and dads out there moms and dads out there , because it's not , because it's not , because it's not what you planned. what you planned. what you planned. It's not what you It's not what you It's not what you wanted. But I can wanted. But I can wanted. But I can say that I know how say that I know how say that I know how you feel. I've been you feel. I've been you feel. I've been in your shoes. And, in your shoes. And, in your shoes. And, you know, you know, you know, to help them in those to help them in those to help them in those days and times somehow. So, days and times somehow. So, days and times somehow. So, eventually, I eventually, I eventually, I decided to become decided to become decided to become a nurse, went to a nurse, went to a nurse, went to medical school at medical school at medical school at Liberty. Um, but in my high Liberty. Um, but in my high Liberty. Um, but in my high school years under school years under school years under Brian Brian Brian Broyhill, I felt Broyhill, I felt Broyhill, I felt a calling, I did a calling, I did a calling, I did n't even tell my parents, I n't even tell my parents, I n't even tell my parents, I thought, I'm going to be in the thought, I'm going to be in the thought, I'm going to be in the ministry. I don't know ministry. I don't know ministry. I don't know exactly what I'm going to exactly what I'm going to exactly what I'm going to do. And then I do. And then I do. And then I felt like I was going to felt like I was going to felt like I was going to marry someone who was in marry someone who was in marry someone who was in the ministry the ministry , God told me that, , God told me that, , God told me that, you know, I didn't know what you know, I didn't know what you know, I didn't know what he was going to do, what kind of he was going to do, what kind of he was going to do, what kind of ministry it would be. And ministry it would be. And ministry it would be. And so I started medical so I started medical so I started medical school, and then we school, and then we school, and then we met, and that's the met, and that's the met, and that's the story we story we story we talked about. And then talked about. And then talked about. And then when we first when we first when we first got married, it was got married, it was got married, it was easy, I don't know if I easy, I don't know if I easy, I don't know if I should call it that should call it that , to be a part of the , to be a part of the , to be a part of the ministry, to help, to

ministry, to help, to ministry, to help, to lead groups, to be there for lead groups, to be there for lead groups, to be there for him and him and him and help when he help when he help when he needed it. And it was needed it. And it was needed it. And it was great to be in great to be in great to be in ministry together. And ministry together. And ministry together. And then, three years then, three years then, three years after we got married, after we got married, after we got married, you were born. The you were born. The you were born. The greatest greatest greatest blessing of my blessing of my blessing of my entire life. entire life. entire life. We We We were talking this morning about were talking this morning about were talking this morning about how how how humble she is. humble she is. humble she is. Yes, that's true. She's Yes, that's true. She's Yes, that's true. She's very humble. Very very humble. Very very humble. Very humble. humble. humble. But I mean it But I mean it But I mean it from the bottom of my from the bottom of my from the bottom of my heart. heart. So then So then another, completely different another, completely different another, completely different chapter of our lives began, in terms of chapter of our lives began, in terms of ministry. Jonathan ministry. Jonathan did everything he could to make did everything he could to make did everything he could to make ministry easy, ministry easy, ministry easy, and then and then and then the girls came along, and two the girls came along, and two the girls came along, and two years later Jordan was born years later Jordan was born years later Jordan was born . I was still . I was still . I was still involved as much as I involved as much as I involved as much as I could, but it's could, but it's could, but it's hard to juggle that hard to juggle that hard to juggle that when you have young when you have young when you have young children. But Jonathan children. But Jonathan children. But Jonathan never... he always never... he always never... he always supported me, supported me, supported me, said, "Do what you can." said, "Do what you can." , don't feel pressured to , don't feel pressured to , don't feel pressured to do it." do it." do it." But I just wanted to But I just wanted to But I just wanted to help him help him help him as much as I as much as I as much as I could, you know, we're could, you know, we're could, you know, we're in this in this in this ministry together. We also ministry together. We also ministry together. We also mentioned Pastor mentioned Pastor mentioned Pastor Mike, a wonderful Mike, a wonderful Mike, a wonderful pastor, just pastor, just pastor, just amazing. He was very amazing. He was very amazing. He was very supportive of both of us supportive of both of us supportive of both of us and even told and even told and even told Jonathan that he wanted me to be Jonathan that he wanted me to be Jonathan that he wanted me to be involved involved involved with the girls, with the girls, with the girls, to take you on trips, to outreaches to take you on trips, to outreaches to take you on trips, to outreaches , , , wherever we could, wherever we could, wherever we could, just to make it just to make it just to make it part of our part of our part of our ministry together.

ministry together. It's a family, yes. And it It's a family, yes. And it was a huge was a huge was a huge blessing that blessing that blessing that he saw our whole he saw our whole he saw our whole family as one unit in family as one unit in family as one unit in our ministry. And it our ministry. And it our ministry. And it made it a lot easier. made it a lot easier. made it a lot easier. It was a challenge, It was a challenge, It was a challenge, but it was easier to know but it was easier to know but it was easier to know that our church that our church that our church supported us as a supported us as a supported us as a family through our family through our family through our ministry, through our work with ministry, through our work with ministry, through our work with students and the other students and the other students and the other things that we things that we things that we did. did. did. Fast Fast Fast forward a few years. forward a few years. I think the hardest I think the hardest part of ministry part of ministry part of ministry for our family, for for our family, for for our family, for us, was moving to us, was moving to us, was moving to Lynchburg, because we Lynchburg, because we Lynchburg, because we were in a local were in a local were in a local church, and it was church, and it was church, and it was what we lived. We were in what we lived. We were in what we lived. We were in ministry. ministry. ministry. We were in We were in We were in youth ministry youth ministry . We had our kids, . We had our kids, . We had our kids, our students, all these our students, all these our students, all these people. Then God people. Then God people. Then God called us to called us to called us to Liberty, to Lynchburg Liberty, to Lynchburg , and we both felt it. , and we both felt it. , and we both felt it. We prayed about it. It We prayed about it. It We prayed about it. It was a mutual decision. was a mutual decision. was a mutual decision. Everything was great. And Everything was great. And Everything was great. And when we got here when we got here , we went to Thomas , we went to Thomas Road, we went to Road, we went to Road, we went to Thomas Road, we started Thomas Road, we started Thomas Road, we started going there, but I going there, but I going there, but I felt like the dynamic of felt like the dynamic of felt like the dynamic of our family our family our family ministry had changed.

ministry had changed. ministry had changed. He was still there, and it, He was still there, and it, He was still there, and it, he never pressured he never pressured he never pressured me, but he was at me, but he was at me, but he was at Liberty, he's still with Liberty, he's still with Liberty, he's still with students, students, students, college students, college students, college students, not necessarily not necessarily not necessarily student ministry student ministry , but he's in ministry every day , but he's in ministry every day . And our ministry . And our ministry changed, and I changed, and I changed, and I thought, so what's thought, so what's thought, so what's my role now? Like, my role now? Like, my role now? Like, what's my position? What do what's my position? What do what's my position? What do I do? Yeah. And I do? Yeah. And I do? Yeah. And so, I still so, I still so, I still had, you were four had, you were four had, you were four and two, so you and two, so you and two, so you were little when were little when were little when we moved here, we moved here, we moved here, so I'm still so I'm still so I'm still doing all doing all doing all the little things. Um, we the little things. Um, we the little things. Um, we got involved with Thomas got involved with Thomas Road and got involved in the Road and got involved in the Road and got involved in the work, but it was work, but it was work, but it was finding a new finding a new finding a new dynamic for us, where dynamic for us, where dynamic for us, where we were going to serve we were going to serve we were going to serve together? Because I think together? Because I think together? Because I think it was important that, it was important that, it was important that, you know, we have our you know, we have our you know, we have our personal relationship with personal relationship with personal relationship with Jesus, and that's what's Jesus, and that's what's Jesus, and that's what's important. And then we important. And then we important. And then we have our have our have our marriage relationship, our family marriage relationship, our family marriage relationship, our family relationship, but when we relationship, but when we relationship, but when we got, it's a got, it's a got, it's a ministry together, and that's what ministry together, and that's what ministry together, and that's what we want to we want to we want to continue to do. continue to do. continue to do. And so finding that And so finding that And so finding that new dynamic new dynamic new dynamic created a challenge, created a challenge, created a challenge, being a nurse being a nurse being a nurse at the same time, because I at the same time, because I at the same time, because I still work in the still work in the still work in the hospital in between. Um, and that's why hospital in between. Um, and that's why hospital in between. Um, and that's why I love that I I love that I I love that I can be a nurse can be a nurse can be a nurse and still be in and still be in and still be in ministry, still be ministry, still be ministry, still be involved and do involved and do involved and do our family things our family things our family things together, family together, family together, family ministry. And so we ministry. And so we ministry. And so we found different found different found different ways to be ways to be ways to be involved and do involved and do involved and do ministry. So you know, ministry. So you know, ministry. So you know, we started out different ways we started out different ways we started out different ways along the way, and now along the way, and now along the way, and now we're doing we're doing we're doing student student student ministry. We ministry. We ministry. We do small groups, do small groups, do small groups, and um, It's been great and um, It's been great and um, It's been great to have that part of to have that part of to have that part of our ministry while our ministry while our ministry while it's going on.

it's going on. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I tell our I, uh, I tell our I, uh, I tell our students that God students that God students that God just gifted me just gifted me just gifted me to work with to work with to work with middle schoolers, middle schoolers, middle schoolers, high schoolers, high schoolers, high schoolers, college students, and college students, and college students, and I have no problem with that I have no problem with that . Um, but put . Um, but put . Um, but put me with kids, and it me with kids, and it me with kids, and it was like a challenge. Um, was like a challenge. Um, was like a challenge. Um, you know, and Felisha you know, and Felisha you know, and Felisha just really loves, just really loves, just really loves, you know, little ones, and you know, little ones, and you know, little ones, and she's great with them she's great with them she's great with them . And, uh, . And, uh, . And, uh, one of the things that one of the things that one of the things that really tested me really tested me really tested me was when, uh, whoever was when, uh, whoever was when, uh, whoever was the director at was the director at was the director at the time at Route 45, uh, the time at Route 45, uh, the time at Route 45, uh, they, uh, they, uh, they, uh, resigned pretty quickly resigned pretty quickly resigned pretty quickly , they , they , they moved out of town. Um, and moved out of town. Um, and moved out of town. Um, and Matt Wilmington Matt Wilmington Matt Wilmington came to Felisha and came to Felisha and came to Felisha and me and said, "Hey, me and said, "Hey, me and said, "Hey, we just need we just need we just need someone who can be a someone who can be a someone who can be a permanent person permanent person permanent person until we find until we find until we find someone." Can you someone." Can you someone." Can you guys get involved with guys get involved with guys get involved with Route 45 and just be, you Route 45 and just be, you Route 45 and just be, you know, kind of know, kind of know, kind of community community community leaders that the parents leaders that the parents leaders that the parents see on a regular basis? And I see on a regular basis? And I see on a regular basis? And I was stunned like was stunned like was stunned like that deer in the that deer in the that deer in the headlights. Well, I was like, headlights. Well, I was like, headlights. Well, I was like, fourth and fourth and fourth and fifth grade.

fifth grade. fifth grade. And I thought, "Oh, this is And I thought, "Oh, this is And I thought, "Oh, this is a little bit out of a little bit out of a little bit out of line, isn't it?" Um, line, isn't it?" Um, line, isn't it?" Um, Felicia Felicia Felicia loved it. She, loved it. She, loved it. She, you know, loves you know, loves you know, loves that age group too, but that age group too, but that age group too, but it was one of those it was one of those it was one of those times where I times where I times where I felt out of my felt out of my felt out of my comfort zone. But comfort zone. But comfort zone. But we kept we kept we kept doing this doing this doing this ministry together, and even though I ministry together, and even though I ministry together, and even though I was out of my was out of my was out of my depth because of the depth because of the depth because of the audience, I audience, I audience, I felt comfortable felt comfortable felt comfortable because we were serving together. And because we were serving together. And because we were serving together. And it was such a great time it was such a great time it was such a great time that we that we that we had together. had together. had together. So much fun. Yeah, So much fun. Yeah, So much fun. Yeah, Jordan and I laughed Jordan and I laughed Jordan and I laughed because you were like following because you were like following because you were like following us as we us as we us as we grew up. When we grew up. When we grew up. When we went to middle school went to middle school , you went back , you went back , you went back to middle school too. And to middle school too. And to middle school too. And when we went to when we went to when we went to high school, we high school, we high school, we said, "Mom and Dad, said, "Mom and Dad, said, "Mom and Dad, please." Oh, you please." Oh, you please." Oh, you loved that. Oh, yeah, loved that. Oh, yeah, loved that. Oh, yeah, sure. So much fun. It's sure. So much fun. It's interesting that, as we interesting that, as we said, Mackenzie said, Mackenzie said, Mackenzie was always excited for was always excited for was always excited for you to you to you to come. But when we come. But when we come. But when we talked to talked to talked to people, they would even people, they would even people, they would even say, "I say, "I say, "I think your mom and think your mom and think your mom and dad should come and dad should come and dad should come and share.

share. share. I think your I think your I think your mom and dads should mom and dads should mom and dads should come and share their come and share their come and share their experiences. They had such a experiences. They had such a experiences. They had such a big impact on big impact on big impact on us when we were us when we were us when we were young. They had such a young. They had such a young. They had such a big impact on big impact on big impact on us when we had us when we had us when we had little kids." So little kids." So little kids." So obviously you have obviously you have obviously you have this kind of " this kind of " unofficial" ministry unofficial" ministry . How, how does that . How, how does that . How, how does that happen? What did you, happen? What did you, happen? What did you, what did you do to make that what did you do to make that what did you do to make that happen? happen? Well, I think we've always Well, I think we've always said that we're just said that we're just said that we're just open to whatever open to whatever open to whatever God wants us to do, whether God wants us to do, whether God wants us to do, whether it's moving, changing it's moving, changing it's moving, changing jobs, serving, or jobs, serving, or jobs, serving, or whatever. And I whatever. And I whatever. And I think some of that think some of that think some of that just came to us just came to us just came to us naturally. Isn't it naturally. Isn't it naturally. Isn't it just about being just about being just about being open to open to open to what God wants us to what God wants us to what God wants us to do? do? So was it So was it individual individual individual mentoring, or did mentoring, or did mentoring, or did you have groups that you have groups that you have groups that you taught, or how did that you taught, or how did that you taught, or how did that work? work? So I would say that we So I would say that we eventually got eventually got eventually got involved in involved in involved in student student student ministry. You ministry. You ministry. You mentioned how mentioned how mentioned how we first met. we first met. we first met. When we were serving at Ascent When we were serving at Ascent When we were serving at Ascent and now at Tri-A, the and now at Tri-A, the Thomas Road youth organization. And Thomas Road youth organization. And one of the things I have to say is one of the things I have to say is one of the things I have to say is Mind you, one of the things Mind you, one of the things Mind you, one of the things I teach our I teach our I teach our students at Liberty students at Liberty students at Liberty is that ministry is that ministry is that ministry moves at moves at moves at the speed of relationships.

the speed of relationships. the speed of relationships. And we're constantly And we're constantly And we're constantly trying to build trying to build trying to build relationships with relationships with relationships with students and people students and people students and people around us. And one of the around us. And one of the around us. And one of the things you things you things you always ask is, always ask is, always ask is, "Lord, why did you "Lord, why did you "Lord, why did you bring this person into bring this person into bring this person into my life? Like, my life? Like, my life? Like, what do you want me to what do you want me to what do you want me to see or do or see or do or see or do or become for them?" So become for them?" So become for them?" So when we were just when we were just when we were just building relationships with building relationships with building relationships with college students, college students, college students, young couples, or young couples, or young couples, or whatever, you know, whatever, you know, whatever, you know, one of those things one of those things is just going back is just going back is just going back in time, right? in time, right? in time, right? But Henry Blackaby in But Henry Blackaby in Knowing God says, Knowing God says, Knowing God says, see where God is working, see where God is working, see where God is working, and join and join and join Him there. And you know, Him there. And you know, Him there. And you know, a lot of the things that have, so a lot of the things that have, so a lot of the things that have, so to speak, "fallen to speak, "fallen to speak, "fallen to our knees" is when to our knees" is when to our knees" is when we build relationships with we build relationships with we build relationships with some of these some of these some of these students or young students or young students or young couples, the Lord just couples, the Lord just couples, the Lord just opens the door for opens the door for opens the door for us to be able to impact us to be able to impact us to be able to impact their lives. And one of the their lives. And one of the their lives. And one of the things that we've things that we've things that we've tried to say is, " tried to say is, " Hey, we're not Hey, we're not Hey, we're not perfect at all. We've learned a lot perfect at all. We've learned a lot through trial and through trial and error; but if there's error; but if there's error; but if there's anything we can anything we can anything we can give you to give you to give you to help you on your help you on your help you on your journey, your walk with the journey, your walk with the journey, your walk with the Lord, we want to Lord, we want to Lord, we want to encourage you in encourage you in encourage you in that aspect." And it that aspect." And it that aspect." And it turned into a turned into a turned into a kind of coaching, kind of coaching, kind of coaching, mentoring, just mentoring, just discipleship opportunities, when some discipleship opportunities, when some of these students were of these students were of these students were in our home in our home in our home groups; some couples would groups; some couples would groups; some couples would come in and say, " come in and say, " We want to get We want to get We want to get your thoughts on this, "How your thoughts on this, "How your thoughts on this, "How to raise children?"

to raise children?" Yes, we did Yes, we did parenting parenting parenting and and and marriage classes that marriage classes that Thomas Road Church offered on Wednesday Thomas Road Church offered on Wednesday nights for nights for nights for a couple of seasons. a couple of seasons. a couple of seasons. And that opened up And that opened up And that opened up opportunities for people opportunities for people opportunities for people to interact with us, to interact with us, to interact with us, just just just building those building those building those relationships, relationships, relationships, trying to be trying to be trying to be faithful in whatever the faithful in whatever the faithful in whatever the Lord brings Lord brings Lord brings before us. before us. before us. So, some of the groups and some of that So, some of the groups and some of that So, some of the groups and some of that . You also do a lot of . You also do a lot of premarital premarital counseling with counseling with counseling with different young different young different young couples, and that couples, and that couples, and that certainly had an impact certainly had an impact . Um, well, obviously you . Um, well, obviously you . Um, well, obviously you raised two raised two raised two amazing... amazing... amazing... this humility... this humility... this humility... incredible, there's Holland incredible, there's Holland incredible, there's Holland and Blair, they're talking and Blair, they're talking and Blair, they're talking about Holland and Blair, about Holland and Blair, about Holland and Blair, Jordan and Mackenzie. Jordan and Mackenzie. Um, you raised Um, you raised Jordan, and I Jordan, and I Jordan, and I obviously, um, obviously, um, obviously, um, could you give a could you give a could you give a quick overview of the quick overview of the quick overview of the parenting advice that parenting advice that parenting advice that you've given. What advice would you've given. What advice would you've given. What advice would you give to young you give to young you give to young parents who want to parents who want to parents who want to raise their children to raise their children to raise their children to love the love the love the Lord, to love His Lord, to love His Lord, to love His church, and, um, to be a church, and, um, to be a church, and, um, to be a part of it? part of it?

I think you want to I think you want to give give give an answer about Jesus first. an answer about Jesus first. an answer about Jesus first. But very It's important for But very It's important for But very It's important for each of us to have our each of us to have our each of us to have our own relationship with own relationship with own relationship with Jesus, as I Jesus, as I Jesus, as I said before. And also to said before. And also to put Christ at the put Christ at the put Christ at the center of the marriage. And center of the marriage. And center of the marriage. And to put our marriage to put our marriage to put our marriage first. first. first. first. We first. We first. We told you when told you when told you when we were raising you that we were raising you that we were raising you that now we were alone again now we were alone again now we were alone again in an in an in an empty nest. empty nest. empty nest. So now that you and So now that you and So now that you and Jordan are gone, it's Jordan are gone, it's Jordan are gone, it's just just just Jonathan and I, and that Jonathan and I, and that Jonathan and I, and that relationship has to be the relationship has to be the relationship has to be the priority. And we priority. And we priority. And we wanted you all to wanted you all to wanted you all to see that as you were see that as you were see that as you were growing up. But I think growing up. But I think growing up. But I think another really important another really important another really important thing in raising children thing in raising children is consistency. And is consistency. And is consistency. And you've seen us all you've seen us all this time. I this time. I mean, if you think back to when mean, if you think back to when mean, if you think back to when you were you were you were little, your dad was a little, your dad was a little, your dad was a youth pastor, he youth pastor, he youth pastor, he served in church, he served on served in church, he served on served in church, he served on missions, and he still serves, missions, and he still serves, missions, and he still serves, even when you were in even when you were in even when you were in college. You see college. You see college. You see us at home. You see us at home. You see us at home. You see what we are like at home. what we are like at home. what we are like at home. Then you see us at Then you see us at Then you see us at church, at work, church, at work, church, at work, when he's at Liberty -- when he's at Liberty -- all this time. It's very all this time. It's very all this time. It's very important to be important to be important to be consistent in both consistent in both consistent in both places, because if you places, because if you places, because if you You see, we You see, we You see, we act like that at home, act like that at home, act like that at home, and when we get to work or and when we get to work or church or whatever church or whatever church or whatever , we're a different , we're a different , we're a different person—it confuses person—it confuses person—it confuses kids and other people kids and other people kids and other people . We're . We're . We're saying that we're saying that we're saying that we're not perfect. And not perfect. And not perfect. And another thing is just another thing is just another thing is just being honest. So if being honest. So if being honest. So if we make a mistake, if we make a mistake, if we make a mistake, if I need to I need to I need to apologize or apologize or apologize or say, "Hey, that was say, "Hey, that was say, "Hey, that was wrong," or wrong," or wrong," or just be able to just be able to just be able to laugh at myself laugh at myself laugh at myself in different situations.

in different situations. Just being, um, Just being, um, consistent—that's consistent—that's consistent—that's been really been really been really helpful and valuable to helpful and valuable to helpful and valuable to all of you, I think, because we're the same at home as we are all of you, I think, because we're the same at home as we are all of you, I think, because we're the same at home as we are at church at church at church or anywhere else. or anywhere else. I'm sure you I'm sure you have something to say about have something to say about have something to say about that, but that, but that, but even to your even to your even to your point: Dad, I was point: Dad, I was point: Dad, I was your roommate when your roommate when your roommate when I was at Liberty; I was at Liberty; I was at Liberty; you teach you teach you teach discipleship, and I discipleship, and I discipleship, and I remember how much of an remember how much of an remember how much of an impact that impact that impact that had on me, because, had on me, because, had on me, because, Mom, that's what Mom, that's what Mom, that's what you're talking about—a lot of you're talking about—a lot of you're talking about—a lot of what you teach, what you teach, what you teach, you showed us through you showed us through you showed us through your own example your own example your own example at home. And that was cool at home. And that was cool : being able to sit there and : being able to sit there and : being able to sit there and think, "This is why you think, "This is why you think, "This is why you teach professionally, teach professionally, teach professionally, this is what you teach this is what you teach this is what you teach others, but at home you others, but at home you others, but at home you do the same thing with me do the same thing with me do the same thing with me and Jordan." And also, and Jordan." And also, I grew up with groups of people gathering in I grew up with groups of people gathering in I grew up with groups of people gathering in our house all the time our house all the time , and I could , and I could see that being see that being see that being played out. played out. Yeah, I would add that I Yeah, I would add that I grew up, and none of grew up, and none of grew up, and none of us have to us have to us have to go far to see go far to see go far to see people who have been people who have been people who have been hurt, hurt, hurt, disappointed, or disappointed, or disappointed, or discouraged by people who discouraged by people who discouraged by people who call themselves call themselves call themselves Christians but don't Christians but don't Christians but don't live that way. You know, it's live that way. You know, it's live that way. You know, it's like, I see him in like, I see him in like, I see him in church every Sunday, church every Sunday, church every Sunday, raising his hands in raising his hands in raising his hands in worship.

worship. worship. But, man, on But, man, on But, man, on Monday, you don't want Monday, you don't want Monday, you don't want to be in the same office with him to be in the same office with him to be in the same office with him because he because he because he treats people treats people treats people like garbage, like garbage, like garbage, you know? You hear these you know? You hear these you know? You hear these stories, even about stories, even about stories, even about marriages of people I've marriages of people I've marriages of people I've known, where after known, where after known, where after many years of being many years of being many years of being together, together, together, their marriages suddenly their marriages suddenly their marriages suddenly fall apart. All these fall apart. All these fall apart. All these things go through my things go through my things go through my head, and I ask head, and I ask head, and I ask myself, "Why is this myself, "Why is this myself, "Why is this happening?" What is the happening?" What is the happening?" What is the reason that is undermining the reason that is undermining the reason that is undermining the foundation, that breakdown in foundation, that breakdown in foundation, that breakdown in these relationships? And the these relationships? And the these relationships? And the main conclusion that main conclusion that main conclusion that I kept I kept I kept coming back to is that if you coming back to is that if you coming back to is that if you are living the Christian are living the Christian are living the Christian life, you have to live life, you have to live life, you have to live it consistently. It it consistently. It it consistently. It doesn't matter if you are at home, doesn't matter if you are at home, doesn't matter if you are at home, at work, or in at work, or in at work, or in the community, people the community, people the community, people are always looking to are always looking to are always looking to see: is it see: is it real? is it real? is it real? is it sincere? The most important thing sincere? The most important thing sincere? The most important thing we wanted for you, as we wanted for you, as we wanted for you, as our daughters, was for our daughters, was for you to understand: this is you to understand: this is you to understand: this is all real. all real. This is sincere. We are not just This is sincere. We are not just playing a role, and we playing a role, and we playing a role, and we wanted you to see wanted you to see wanted you to see this in our lives this in our lives this in our lives when you yourself began when you yourself began when you yourself began to seek the Lord, and to seek the Lord, and to seek the Lord, and when the Lord when the Lord when the Lord touched your touched your touched your hearts to bring hearts to bring hearts to bring you to salvation. And this you to salvation. And this you to salvation. And this even applies to even applies to even applies to ministry, because the last thing ministry, because the last thing I would want is I would want is I would want is for you to grow up in an for you to grow up in an for you to grow up in an environment where you environment where you environment where you hated church.

hated church. Where you hated Where you hated being in being in being in ministry. We ministry. We ministry. We tried to show tried to show tried to show you that yes, ministry you that yes, ministry is It's hard, but it's is It's hard, but it's is It's hard, but it's also fun and very also fun and very also fun and very rewarding. Um, and I rewarding. Um, and I rewarding. Um, and I feel like in the feel like in the feel like in the time that you've spent with time that you've spent with time that you've spent with our students our students our students when I was the youth when I was the youth when I was the youth pastor and because pastor and because pastor and because we opened our we opened our we opened our home to home groups home to home groups , you've seen all these , you've seen all these , you've seen all these ups and downs. So ups and downs. So ups and downs. So that was, you know, that was, you know, that was, you know, the main thing in our the main thing in our the main thing in our minds, we wanted minds, we wanted minds, we wanted you to see that you to see that you to see that ministry is important ministry is important ministry is important and it's and it's and it's fulfilling. fulfilling. Oh, yeah. I also think, Oh, yeah. I also think, as you're talking about, that you as you're talking about, that you as you're talking about, that you surrounded us with people surrounded us with people surrounded us with people who also loved it and who also loved it and who also loved it and had a deep commitment to it had a deep commitment to it had a deep commitment to it . I think . I think . I think when you talk about when you talk about when you talk about your time as a youth your time as a youth your time as a youth pastor, the time we pastor, the time we pastor, the time we spent with Amber and spent with Amber and Chad and the others, Chad and the others, Chad and the others, we had a wonderful we had a wonderful we had a wonderful community of people community of people community of people around us. Of course, around us. Of course, around us. Of course, you did that and you you did that and you you did that and you nurtured us, but I nurtured us, but I nurtured us, but I mean, you mean, you mean, you allowed us to be allowed us to be allowed us to be among the students and among the students and among the students and grow with them, grow with them, grow with them, having them as role having them as role having them as role models.

models. Well, I want to give Well, I want to give credit to Tim credit to Tim credit to Tim Grenstaff, because Grenstaff, because Grenstaff, because I remember even when I remember even when I remember even when his boys his boys his boys were going through this, were going through this, were going through this, he said to me, " he said to me, " Gus, listen, there's going to come a Gus, listen, there's going to come a Gus, listen, there's going to come a time when your kids are time when your kids are time when your kids are going to stop going to stop going to stop coming to you as coming to you as coming to you as parents." So you parents." So you parents." So you have to make sure have to make sure have to make sure that there are people in their lives that there are people in their lives that there are people in their lives who are around them who are around them -- whether it's coaches, -- whether it's coaches, -- whether it's coaches, teachers, youth teachers, youth teachers, youth leaders, whoever -- who leaders, whoever -- who leaders, whoever -- who share the share the share the same values ​​and same values ​​and same values ​​and beliefs that you're beliefs that you're beliefs that you're trying trying trying to instill in your to instill in your to instill in your kids. So we kids. So we kids. So we kept thinking, "Who are kept thinking, "Who are kept thinking, "Who are these people that we these people that we these people that we trust and trust and trust and want in want in want in our daughters' lives? We our daughters' lives? We our daughters' lives? We know that if they know that if they know that if they have a question or a have a question or a have a question or a challenge, these people challenge, these people challenge, these people will give them godly, will give them godly, will give them godly, biblical, sound biblical, sound biblical, sound advice, you know?" advice, you know?" That's good. I have one more That's good. I have one more question before question before question before we get to something we get to something we get to something more fun. A few more fun. A few more fun. A few years ago, your dad years ago, your dad years ago, your dad moved in with us for 9 moved in with us for 9 moved in with us for 9 years. And since you, years. And since you, years. And since you, Dad, work Dad, work Dad, work full-time, a lot of the full-time, a lot of the full-time, a lot of the responsibility of responsibility of responsibility of caring for him fell caring for him fell caring for him fell on you, Mom. How have on you, Mom. How have you you continued to be continued to be continued to be obedient and obedient and obedient and respectful to him as respectful to him as respectful to him as your father-in-law and Dad as your father-in-law and Dad as your father-in-law and Dad as your husband over those 9 years, and especially the last 9 months since the stroke? It's your husband over those 9 years, and especially the last 9 months since the stroke? It's your husband over those 9 years, and especially the last 9 months since the stroke? It's been a tough 9 years and a been a tough 9 years and a been a tough 9 years and a tough 9 months.

tough 9 months. tough 9 months. Yeah. Well, that was a Yeah. Well, that was a Yeah. Well, that was a decision we decision we decision we made together at the made together at the made together at the beginning. And... beginning. And... if he's our family. if he's our family. Yeah. Yeah. And part of the ministry. That's part of what's That's part of what's not so good about today not so good about today not so good about today . Yeah. . Yeah. . Yeah. is that it's too easy to is that it's too easy to is that it's too easy to Mhm. to leave the kids in Mhm. to leave the kids in Mhm. to leave the kids in daycare and the daycare and the daycare and the elderly in a elderly in a elderly in a nursing home and not be nursing home and not be nursing home and not be involved with the family. involved with the family. Mhm. Mhm. Well, we didn't mean to Well, we didn't mean to Well, we didn't mean to just just just show you show you show you guys, guys, Mhm. Mhm. as you get older, as you get older, as you get older, like in ministry or like in ministry or like in ministry or Christian path Christian path , we wanted to be , we wanted to be , we wanted to be an example. We an example. We an example. We prayed and we knew that prayed and we knew that prayed and we knew that God wanted us to God wanted us to God wanted us to go through this time go through this time , even though it was a , even though it was a , even though it was a test for test for test for all of us. I think we all of us. I think we all of us. I think we grew during that time, grew during that time, grew during that time, but when you're in the middle of but when you're in the middle of but when you're in the middle of it, you don't always it, you don't always it, you don't always understand, you know, why.

understand, you know, why. understand, you know, why. We talked about it in We talked about it in We talked about it in church. Why is everything church. Why is everything church. Why is everything happening? And happening? And happening? And looking back, I looking back, I looking back, I see things that God see things that God see things that God taught me during that taught me during that taught me during that time, and 9, 8 years is a time, and 9, 8 years is a time, and 9, 8 years is a long time to long time to long time to learn something. learn something. Maybe I'm just Maybe I'm just stubborn that it took me a while to stubborn that it took me a while to figure it out. But God figure it out. But God taught me that we're taught me that we're taught me that we're often too often too often too busy. busy. busy. Growing up, Growing up, Growing up, traveling, sports, games, traveling, sports, games, traveling, sports, games, all these different things. There all these different things. There all these different things. There 's a lot of 's a lot of 's a lot of good things in life. good things in life. good things in life. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And there are things that God And there are things that God And there are things that God says are okay. says are okay. says are okay. Do those things. That's good Do those things. That's good . But sometimes we get . But sometimes we get . But sometimes we get overwhelmed by so many overwhelmed by so many overwhelmed by so many good things, too good things, too good things, too much, and we're much, and we're much, and we're always busy. always busy. always busy. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And sometimes I feel like And sometimes I feel like we just have to we just have to we just have to be busy. Everything has to be busy. Everything has to be busy. Everything has to move somewhere. So I move somewhere. So I think there think there think there was a lot of stillness during that time. I was a lot of stillness during that time. I was a lot of stillness during that time. I learned to learned to learned to crochet. crochet. crochet. You made a lot of You made a lot of You made a lot of blankets during that time. blankets during that time. blankets during that time. I made a lot of I made a lot of I made a lot of blankets. I blankets. I blankets. I learned and taught learned and taught learned and taught all of you to all of you to all of you to crochet. There was a lot of crochet. There was a lot of crochet. There was a lot of time to think and time to think and time to think and pray, and God pray, and God pray, and God was saying, "You just was saying, "You just was saying, "You just need to stop and need to stop and need to stop and listen to Me."

listen to Me." listen to Me." Enjoy the quiet. Enjoy the quiet. Enjoy the quiet. Enjoy the Enjoy the Enjoy the rest. rest. rest. Enjoy this Enjoy this Enjoy this time. time. time. Mhm. Take your Mhm. Take your time and listen to time and listen to Me. And so I think Me. And so I think Me. And so I think I learned I learned I learned to enjoy my to enjoy my time with God during that time. time with God during that time. Yes. Yes. Yes. I learned I learned I learned to enjoy to enjoy to enjoy the quiet. I learned the quiet. I learned the quiet. I learned to enjoy my to enjoy my to enjoy my time with my dad. time with my dad. time with my dad. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And I hope you And I hope you And I hope you saw that too. saw that too. saw that too. Yes, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. And just to grow in my And just to grow in my relationship with Christ during relationship with Christ during relationship with Christ during that time, and to be there for my that time, and to be there for my that time, and to be there for my dad in those moments, dad in those moments, dad in those moments, because he was a family. because he was a family. He was a person that He was a person that he knew, and I think he knew, and I think he knew, and I think we enjoyed being we enjoyed being we enjoyed being together. We together. We together. We would go to lunch a lot and would go to lunch a lot and would go to lunch a lot and walk around the mall walk around the mall walk around the mall . We would . We would . We would go to the mall go to the mall go to the mall mall, Walmart, and places mall, Walmart, and places mall, Walmart, and places he liked to go to he liked to go to . But yeah, I'm grateful, you . But yeah, I'm grateful, you . But yeah, I'm grateful, you know, looking know, looking know, looking back many years, back many years, back many years, that God called me that God called me that God called me to be a nurse back in to be a nurse back in to be a nurse back in high school. I high school. I high school. I went through a CNA program in went through a CNA program in went through a CNA program in Brookville and Brookville and Brookville and worked in a worked in a worked in a nursing home. And I nursing home. And I nursing home. And I think the skills that I think the skills that I think the skills that I learned back then really learned back then really learned back then really helped me during that helped me during that helped me during that time, especially after time, especially after time, especially after his stroke, when I was his stroke, when I was his stroke, when I was helping with his helping with his helping with his daily care.

daily care. daily care. But being a But being a But being a nurse, I was able to nurse, I was able to nurse, I was able to really cut back on really cut back on really cut back on my schedule and my schedule and my schedule and work minimally work minimally . So when I was gone for . So when I was gone for . So when I was gone for a few days, he a few days, he a few days, he was home with his was home with his was home with his father. And, you know, father. And, you know, father. And, you know, God allowed us to have God allowed us to have God allowed us to have that time and be there for that time and be there for that time and be there for him. So, him. So, him. So, yeah. I yeah. I yeah. I think it wasn't think it wasn't think it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy easy. It wasn't easy easy. It wasn't easy , but, you know, , but, you know, , but, you know, it was that time, that it was that time, that it was that time, that period that period that period that God put us in, and I God put us in, and I God put us in, and I think that's what think that's what think that's what He wanted us to do. He wanted us to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I, uh, you know, Yeah, I, uh, you know, Yeah, I, uh, you know, through that process, first of all through that process, first of all , I couldn't have , I couldn't have , I couldn't have gotten through it without your gotten through it without your gotten through it without your mom. I mean, mom. I mean, mom. I mean, she's just a star. she's just a star. And her willingness And her willingness to say, "Okay, to say, "Okay, to say, "Okay, the Lord sent us this the Lord sent us this , we're going to do this," and , we're going to do this," and , we're going to do this," and going back to what going back to what going back to what you were saying, Sue, my you were saying, Sue, my you were saying, Sue, my friend was talking about the friend was talking about the friend was talking about the theology of death, and how theology of death, and how theology of death, and how in the churches today, in the churches today, in the churches today, because we've because we've because we've sent our sent our sent our elderly parents to elderly parents to elderly parents to nursing homes nursing homes , the church no longer , the church no longer , the church no longer sees people sees people sees people passing away with dignity.

passing away with dignity. Mhm. Mhm. Isn't that right? And also Isn't that right? And also Isn't that right? And also they're kind of taking they're kind of taking the responsibility of the responsibility of taking care of, taking care of, taking care of, I wanted to say that. I wanted to say that. I wanted to say that. uh, taking care of them, uh, taking care of them, uh, taking care of them, right? right? right? care. care. care. Yeah, yeah. And so we Yeah, yeah. And so we Yeah, yeah. And so we were in a were in a were in a situation where situation where situation where we made this decision we made this decision we made this decision together, we felt like together, we felt like together, we felt like it was the biblical thing to it was the biblical thing to it was the biblical thing to do, do, do, right? To take care right? To take care right? To take care of my of my widowed father, you know, because there was widowed father, you know, because there was widowed father, you know, because there was no one else to no one else to no one else to take care of him. And take care of him. And take care of him. And it was hard because it was hard because , uh, I looked , uh, I looked , uh, I looked around and I saw, around and I saw, around and I saw, you know, some of your you know, some of your you know, some of your peers with their peers with their peers with their grandmothers and grandparents, grandmothers and grandparents, grandmothers and grandparents, and it was like, "Oh, there's and it was like, "Oh, there's and it was like, "Oh, there's my grandpa, oh, well, everything, my grandpa, oh, well, everything, my grandpa, oh, well, everything, " and they were " and they were " and they were so happy to see them. And so happy to see them. And , but because he , but because he , but because he lived with us, lived with us, lived with us, Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. it created a lot of it created a lot of it created a lot of tension in the house, tension in the house, tension in the house, Mhm.

Mhm. and I hated the and I hated the fact that you guys fact that you guys fact that you guys had to live with that, and it had to live with that, and it had to live with that, and it wasn't easy, and you wasn't easy, and you wasn't easy, and you all saw that. all saw that. Fast forward to Fast forward to today, today, today, looking back, I looking back, I looking back, I think God taught us all think God taught us all think God taught us all a lot, didn't a lot, didn't a lot, didn't he? And it wasn't the he? And it wasn't the he? And it wasn't the ideal ideal ideal grandchild- grandchild- grandchild- grandpa relationship. But I believe grandpa relationship. But I believe grandpa relationship. But I believe that God used it that God used it that God used it to help to help to help shape you and shape you and shape you and Jordan into Jordan into Jordan into who you are. Because who you are. Because who you are. Because you're both in you're both in you're both in ministry now, you get to ministry now, you get to ministry now, you get to see that side of see that side of see that side of life. And so, you know, life. And so, you know, life. And so, you know, as a father, I really as a father, I really as a father, I really felt that burden, you felt that burden, you felt that burden, you know, but at the same time I know, but at the same time I know, but at the same time I realized that we realized that we realized that we felt that God felt that God felt that God was calling us to was calling us to was calling us to do this. do this. Yeah. Well, I also think Yeah. Well, I also think that maybe grace that maybe grace that maybe grace The truth is that it The truth is that it The truth is that it was hard. Like you was hard. Like you was hard. Like you said, you both said, you both said, you both hinted at it. It hinted at it. It hinted at it. It was hard on our was hard on our was hard on our family. There were times when it was family. There were times when it was family. There were times when it was stressful, and, you know, stressful, and, you know, stressful, and, you know, Jordan and I were in Jordan and I were in Jordan and I were in high school and high school and high school and then even in then even in then even in college. But college. But college. But honestly, now when I honestly, now when I honestly, now when I look back, I look back, I look back, I only remember the good only remember the good only remember the good times. I remember times. I remember times. I remember us laughing, and I us laughing, and I us laughing, and I mean, mean, mean, he was doing funny he was doing funny he was doing funny things at the end. So I honestly know it things at the end. So I honestly know it things at the end. So I honestly know it was hard, but I do was hard, but I do was hard, but I do n't remember the n't remember the n't remember the really hard times.

really hard times. I only remember the I only remember the good times, good times, good times, sitting at the kitchen sitting at the kitchen sitting at the kitchen table and singing, and it table and singing, and it table and singing, and it was incredible, was incredible, was incredible, and I cry every time. So and I cry every time. So and I cry every time. So we're not going to talk we're not going to talk we're not going to talk about it too much about it too much about it too much . . . Well, you see, I can Well, you see, I can Well, you see, I can relate to that too, because I relate to that too, because I relate to that too, because I took care of my took care of my took care of my mom and dad for the last mom and dad for the last mom and dad for the last nine or 10 years of their nine or 10 years of their nine or 10 years of their lives. Yeah. They were lives. Yeah. They were lives. Yeah. They were pretty much housebound pretty much housebound , and it was a hard time. , and it was a hard time. , and it was a hard time. It was It was It was just me, though. I have I just me, though. I have I just me, though. I have I mean, I didn't have a mean, I didn't have a mean, I didn't have a family, so I did family, so I did family, so I did n't have to n't have to n't have to balance that. balance that. balance that. But when I look But when I look But when I look back, it was a back, it was a back, it was a precious time, it precious time, it precious time, it was a gift from God that I was a gift from God that I was a gift from God that I was able to take care of was able to take care of was able to take care of them the way they took care them the way they took care them the way they took care of me. Absolutely. of me. Absolutely. Okay, well, it's a sharp Okay, well, it's a sharp transition. But since transition. But since transition. But since we're wrapping up, do we're wrapping up, do we're wrapping up, do you have a favorite you have a favorite you have a favorite memory from your time memory from your time memory from your time in youth ministry in youth ministry in youth ministry or just in or just in or just in church ministry? church ministry? church ministry? I know I know I know Jordan and I heard Jordan and I heard Jordan and I heard a lot of stories a lot of stories a lot of stories growing up, some of which are growing up, some of which are growing up, some of which are probably not worth probably not worth probably not worth writing down. writing down. There were a lot of times There were a lot of times when we when we when we were talking last night and just were talking last night and just were talking last night and just laughing about different laughing about different laughing about different things, and we things, and we things, and we had some great had some great had some great youth leaders. Sean youth leaders. Sean youth leaders. Sean and Tammy, some of our and Tammy, some of our and Tammy, some of our dearest friends, Tammy and I dearest friends, Tammy and I dearest friends, Tammy and I went to went to went to camps, and we cleaned with camps, and we cleaned with camps, and we cleaned with brooms, and we saw mice brooms, and we saw mice brooms, and we saw mice and...

and... and... Oh, well, you know, all this " Oh, well, you know, all this " toilet" stuff that toilet" stuff that toilet" stuff that you do with youth, it's you do with youth, it's you do with youth, it's just like... just like... just like... But we built But we built But we built great relationships with great relationships with great relationships with students, with students, with students, with leaders. leaders. leaders. That still continue. That still continue. That still continue. Yeah, and just this Yeah, and just this Yeah, and just this week, you know, a week, you know, a week, you know, a memory pops up on memory pops up on memory pops up on Facebook, and there was me and Facebook, and there was me and Facebook, and there was me and one of our students one of our students one of our students when she was in when she was in when she was in high school, Jamie high school, Jamie . And we sent her . And we sent her . And we sent her a picture, and she a picture, and she a picture, and she replied with replied with replied with a message, "You've a message, "You've a message, "You've been in my heart been in my heart been in my heart this week. I've been thinking this week. I've been thinking this week. I've been thinking about you. It's kind of about you. It's kind of about you. It's kind of weird that it's just come up weird that it's just come up weird that it's just come up now. And now now. And now now. And now she and her husband, she and her husband, she and her husband, Drew, have Drew, have teenage children. She says, " teenage children. She says, " I think back to when I think back to when I think back to when we were in youth we were in youth we were in youth group and all that you group and all that you group and all that you did for us. And it's so did for us. And it's so did for us. And it's so nice to see those nice to see those nice to see those relationships relationships relationships continue as continue as continue as our students become our students become our students become adults and parents adults and parents adults and parents and mature." and mature." and mature." Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we've all Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we've all Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we've all grown up. grown up. grown up. Well, I meant the Well, I meant the Well, I meant the relationship. I didn't mean relationship. I didn't mean relationship. I didn't mean us. us. us. We're still as We're still as We're still as silly as we silly as we silly as we were. were. were. So some of the great So some of the great So some of the great memories memories memories continue continue continue today because of today because of today because of the kids that we have. You the kids that we have. You the kids that we have. You mean Amber and mean Amber and mean Amber and Chad, the Grooms, and Chad, the Grooms, and Chad, the Grooms, and Ken, and everyone else.

Ken, and everyone else. Ken, and everyone else. These are just great These are just great These are just great memories that we have. memories that we have. memories that we have. But do you have any But do you have any But do you have any specific stories? specific stories? specific stories? God, I have so God, I have so God, I have so many stories that many stories that many stories that you can come to you can come to you can come to my classes and listen to my classes and listen to my classes and listen to them. them. them. You really tell a lot You really tell a lot You really tell a lot . . . I mean, I can I mean, I can I mean, I can go back all the way to my go back all the way to my student days. Well, kids are student days. Well, kids are kids, and someone kids, and someone kids, and someone tipped us off that tipped us off that tipped us off that they saw our they saw our they saw our youth leader youth leader youth leader with some teenagers at the with some teenagers at the with some teenagers at the Food Lion, and they were Food Lion, and they were Food Lion, and they were buying a bunch of buying a bunch of buying a bunch of forks to forks to forks to stick in our stick in our stick in our lawn. We had just lawn. We had just lawn. We had just moved into our new moved into our new moved into our new house, and we had an house, and we had an irrigation system installed because we irrigation system installed because we were trying to grow were trying to grow were trying to grow grass. So we knew grass. So we knew grass. So we knew they were coming. And I they were coming. And I they were coming. And I snuck downstairs. snuck downstairs. snuck downstairs. It's a little bit like " It's a little bit like " Home Alone." We had Home Alone." We had ... ... ... That's right. That's right. That's right. But I grabbed a 12- But I grabbed a 12- gauge shotgun. I gauge shotgun. I gauge shotgun. I made sure it was made sure it was made sure it was empty, completely empty, completely empty, completely empty. I snuck empty. I snuck empty. I snuck around the side of the house, and we around the side of the house, and we around the side of the house, and we saw them saw them saw them parked in the parked in the parked in the the streets. We saw the streets. We saw the streets. We saw them come out and them come out and them come out and sneak up the road. And sneak up the road. And sneak up the road. And just as they just as they just as they got to the yard, I got to the yard, I got to the yard, I pulled the trigger on the pulled the trigger on the pulled the trigger on the shotgun and turned on the shotgun and turned on the shotgun and turned on the sprinklers. And they sprinklers. And they sprinklers. And they just ran away.

just ran away. just ran away. They were wet. They were They were wet. They were They were wet. They were just screaming. And I just screaming. And I just screaming. And I was thinking was thinking was thinking about that recently. I thought, this is about that recently. I thought, this is about that recently. I thought, this is pretty funny, but there are pretty funny, but there are pretty funny, but there are so many memories. so many memories. so many memories. And like Felicia said, the And like Felicia said, the And like Felicia said, the most important thing is the most important thing is the most important thing is the relationships with all relationships with all relationships with all the people. You know, people the people. You know, people the people. You know, people ask me, do ask me, do ask me, do you miss church? you miss church? you miss church? I say, I I say, I I say, I miss the relationships. miss the relationships. I can still do I can still do a lot of the things that I a lot of the things that I a lot of the things that I loved about church. loved about church. loved about church. I can equip and I can equip and I can equip and teach and mentor. teach and mentor. teach and mentor. And so, you know, I'm And so, you know, I'm And so, you know, I'm quite happy with quite happy with quite happy with that. But I miss the that. But I miss the that. But I miss the relationships with the people relationships with the people relationships with the people that we had. But, that we had. But, that we had. But, man, there are so many man, there are so many man, there are so many fun memories fun memories fun memories that we could that we could that we could talk about forever. But that's what talk about forever. But that's what talk about forever. But that's what came came came to mind, actually. to mind, actually. And there are people who And there are people who tell that tell that tell that story. Well, when Tim story. Well, when Tim story. Well, when Tim and Teresa came, we and Teresa came, we and Teresa came, we asked them about asked them about asked them about wedding jokes and wedding jokes and sardine pranks. And I haven't forgotten. And I haven't forgotten. No, never. If you don't No, never. If you don't No, never. If you don't know the story, know the story, know the story, watch the watch the watch the Tim and Teresa episode, "Brain Tim and Teresa episode, "Brain Tim and Teresa episode, "Brain Stuff." Okay, we Stuff." Okay, we Stuff." Okay, we only have two questions to only have two questions to only have two questions to finish. We finish. We finish. We changed our questions changed our questions changed our questions from last semester, from last semester, from last semester, last season.

last season. last season. It's really funny. People It's really funny. People It's really funny. People come come come prepared. prepared. prepared. Prepared when Prepared when Prepared when she asks them. she asks them. she asks them. So, let's go. And when I So, let's go. And when I So, let's go. And when I watched the last two watched the last two watched the last two episodes, I thought, episodes, I thought, episodes, I thought, This is so funny. This is so funny. This is so funny. So, you want to ask the So, you want to ask the So, you want to ask the first question? first question? first question? Sure. If you could Sure. If you could Sure. If you could sit down to dinner and have a sit down to dinner and have a sit down to dinner and have a long talk with long talk with long talk with any biblical any biblical any biblical character, and of course character, and of course character, and of course we would all choose Jesus. we would all choose Jesus. Let's go. Which Let's go. Which biblical character biblical character biblical character would you choose and why? would you choose and why? would you choose and why? Oh, that was easy. It Oh, that was easy. It Oh, that was easy. It came to my mind came to my mind came to my mind right away. You'll appreciate it. right away. You'll appreciate it. right away. You'll appreciate it. It's Moses. Do you know why? It's Moses. Do you know why? It's Moses. Do you know why? Because of Mount Sinai? Because of Mount Sinai? Because of Mount Sinai? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We We We climbed Mount climbed Mount climbed Mount Sinai on dawn. It's the Sinai on dawn. It's the Sinai on dawn. It's the hardest thing I've ever hardest thing I've ever hardest thing I've ever done in my life done in my life . . 2020 25 And that's how I 2020 25 And that's how I felt after felt after felt after that climb. And my that climb. And my that climb. And my girls, Mackenzie and girls, Mackenzie and girls, Mackenzie and Jordan, they all Jordan, they all Jordan, they all thought I was going to die thought I was going to die thought I was going to die that night. that night. that night. It was a tough hike, It was a tough hike, It was a tough hike, but Mom was coming down but Mom was coming down but Mom was coming down fast. That's right. She fast. That's right. She fast. That's right. She came back even came back even came back even faster. When Eunice faster. When Eunice faster. When Eunice was here and we was here and we was here and we were talking about it, she were talking about it, she were talking about it, she said, "Oh yeah, I did said, "Oh yeah, I did said, "Oh yeah, I did n't do that." Yeah, I n't do that." Yeah, I n't do that." Yeah, I did. I'd like to did. I'd like to did. I'd like to talk to Moses talk to Moses talk to Moses and ask about those and ask about those and ask about those many times and the many times and the many times and the sandals. I told sandals. I told sandals. I told Dad that she had the wrong Dad that she had the wrong Dad that she had the wrong shoes on.

shoes on. shoes on. She should have worn She should have worn She should have worn sandals when she was sandals when she was sandals when she was carrying the stone carrying the stone carrying the stone tablets. tablets. tablets. Because thank God, Because thank God, Because thank God, Jonathan Jonathan Jonathan carried my pack for a while. carried my pack for a while. carried my pack for a while. So he carries two So he carries two So he carries two packs, and we're like, packs, and we're like, packs, and we're like, "Mom's dying." "Mom's dying." "Mom's dying." Anyway, I Anyway, I Anyway, I made it. We have made it. We have made it. We have a picture. We a picture. We a picture. We got to the top. got to the top. got to the top. But that would be... I But that would be... I But that would be... I mean, he has a mean, he has a mean, he has a lot of interesting lot of interesting lot of interesting stories. stories. stories. Moses is good. Moses is good. Moses is good. Dad? Dad? Dad? Um, man, there are so Um, man, there are so Um, man, there are so many. Um. many. Um. many. Um. He didn't want He didn't want He didn't want to tell me his. to tell me his. to tell me his. I would say Esther. I would say Esther. I would say Esther. Oh. Oh. Oh. Esther has always been Esther has always been Esther has always been one of my one of my one of my favorite stories in the favorite stories in the favorite stories in the Bible. Bible. Bible. Because he's a father of daughters. Because he's a father of daughters. And yeah, I just... And yeah, I just... For a time like For a time like For a time like this. That's right. Yeah. this. That's right. Yeah. this. That's right. Yeah. So yeah, I would probably be So yeah, I would probably be So yeah, I would probably be happy happy happy to sit and... to sit and... to sit and... Both are great. Both are great. Both are great. You know, I'm saying, one You know, I'm saying, one You know, I'm saying, one day I'd like, you know, day I'd like, you know, day I'd like, you know, when we get to when we get to when we get to heaven, to watch some kind of heaven, to watch some kind of documentary documentary series and just series and just series and just see the Old see the Old see the Old Testament Testament Testament unfold before unfold before unfold before our eyes. To be our eyes. To be our eyes. To be able to go back and able to go back and able to go back and watch that watch that watch that series. So, series. So, series. So, And have a character sitting next to you And have a character sitting next to you And have a character sitting next to you .

. . I wonder if there's any seats at the I wonder if there's any seats at the I wonder if there's any seats at the wedding supper of the wedding supper of the wedding supper of the Lamb. I'm going to choose Esther. Lamb. I'm going to choose Esther. Lamb. I'm going to choose Esther. That's right. That's right. You That's right. That's right. You That's right. That's right. You have to move. have to move. have to move. Like musical Like musical Like musical chairs. Every chairs. Every chairs. Every course. course. course. Or like the Or like the Or like the Mad Mad Mad Hatter's tea party. Hatter's tea party. Hatter's tea party. Move on. Move on. Move on. That's right. You do move That's right. You do move . . Okay, and our Okay, and our last question: last question: last question: if you could if you could if you could get a free get a free get a free ticket to anywhere ticket to anywhere ticket to anywhere in the world, without spending any in the world, without spending any in the world, without spending any money, where would you money, where would you money, where would you choose to go and where choose to go and where choose to go and where would you say, "I would would you say, "I would would you say, "I would never, ever never, ever never, ever go there, even with a go there, even with a go there, even with a free ticket free ticket "? "? Oh. Oh. Well, now, well, you Well, now, well, you Well, now, well, you know, I love the beach, know, I love the beach, know, I love the beach, I love the sun and warm toes I love the sun and warm toes I love the sun and warm toes in the sand. It's in the sand. It's in the sand. It's my favorite place, and my favorite place, and my favorite place, and I love all the oceans I love all the oceans I love all the oceans and stuff. But I've and stuff. But I've and stuff. But I've never been out never been out never been out west to set west to set west to set foot on the ground there. We foot on the ground there. We foot on the ground there. We flew over the Grand flew over the Grand Canyon, so I Canyon, so I Canyon, so I got a got a got a bird's eye view of it. bird's eye view of it. But just seeing But just seeing all the national all the national all the national parks—it's not, you know, parks—it's not, you know, parks—it's not, you know, it's not outside the it's not outside the it's not outside the United States, United States, United States, but just all these but just all these but just all these pictures and God's pictures and God's pictures and God's creation, how he creation, how he creation, how he created all of this, well, created all of this, well, created all of this, well, everything, yeah. But everything, yeah. But everything, yeah. But the pictures are the pictures are the pictures are incredible. I would incredible. I would incredible. I would like to go to the like to go to the like to go to the national parks and national parks and national parks and go camping.

go camping. go camping. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, you want Oh. Oh, you want Oh. Oh, you want write it down? write it down? write it down? But he doesn't want to go But he doesn't want to go But he doesn't want to go camping. That's crazy camping. That's crazy . . . They say if God They say if God They say if God wanted me to live in wanted me to live in wanted me to live in tents, he wouldn't have tents, he wouldn't have tents, he wouldn't have created Holiday created Holiday created Holiday Inns. Inns. Inns. Okay, I'll go out Okay, I'll go out Okay, I'll go out west. We can west. We can west. We can stay in a hotel. stay in a hotel. stay in a hotel. We've got it. We've got it. We've got it. Well, one of the places would be Well, one of the places would be Well, one of the places would be anywhere you anywhere you anywhere you could hunt. So, could hunt. So, could hunt. So, it would be one of the it would be one of the it would be one of the Also out west. Also out west. Also out west. Uh, not out west. Um, and Uh, not out west. Um, and Uh, not out west. Um, and I don't know. I was thinking I don't know. I was thinking I don't know. I was thinking about when you about when you about when you asked what one asked what one asked what one place you would say place you would say place you would say No. No. No. No. And I honestly No. And I honestly No. And I honestly can't think of anything can't think of anything can't think of anything because I would because I would because I would like to travel like to travel like to travel the world and see everything the world and see everything the world and see everything through God's creation, through God's creation, through God's creation, just experiencing the just experiencing the just experiencing the cultures, the people, and cultures, the people, and cultures, the people, and just just Variety. Variety. Food. All the different Food. All the different Food. All the different foods. foods. foods. Yeah. All of that. So, I would Yeah. All of that. So, I would Yeah. All of that. So, I would go anywhere. I go anywhere. I go anywhere. I mean, you say there mean, you say there mean, you say there was one was one Arachnophobia.

Arachnophobia. Australia because of Australia because of Australia because of spiders. spiders. So So But yeah. But yeah. But yeah. But yeah, I would say But yeah, I would say But yeah, I would say Australia is worse. Australia is worse. Australia is worse. Uh, now I would say Uh, now I would say Uh, now I would say Alaska. Alaska Alaska. Alaska Alaska. Alaska intrigues me. So intrigues me. So intrigues me. So Oh, to go there. Oh, to go there. Oh, to go there. If I had a If I had a If I had a free ticket, free ticket, free ticket, I would go there. But I would go there. But I would go there. But I would go anywhere. I would go anywhere. Is there a place you would Is there a place you would n't go? n't go? I think I would be I think I would be pretty open to pretty open to pretty open to most places. most places. Aside from arguments. It Aside from arguments. It depends. depends. depends. It does. It depends on It does. It depends on It does. It depends on the day. the day. the day. Uh, I take Uh, I take Uh, I take back what I said. I will say there back what I said. I will say there back what I said. I will say there is one place is one place is one place I won't go. I won't go. I won't go. What is it? What is it? What is it? Durham, North Durham, North Durham, North Carolina. Carolina. Carolina. And tell them why. And that's where And tell them why. And that's where And tell them why. And that's where we'll end we'll end . . . Right. Because of the Right. Because of the Duke Blue Devils. Duke Blue Devils. Duke Blue Devils. Oh, yeah. Go, Hills! Oh, yeah. Go, Hills! Oh, yeah. Go, Hills! Go, Hills! Go, Hills! Go, Hills! Huge Huge Tar Heels fans. Tar Heels fans. Tar Heels fans. And on that note And on that note And on that note But thank you both so much for But thank you both so much for But thank you both so much for coming. coming. coming. You know, I was You know, I was You know, I was thrilled about it. It thrilled about it. It thrilled about it. It was great. was great. was great. Will you pray for us? Will you pray for us? Will you pray for us? Sure. Father, we Sure. Father, we Sure. Father, we thank You for this thank You for this thank You for this day. We thank You day. We thank You day. We thank You for Sue and Mackenzie and for Sue and Mackenzie and for Sue and Mackenzie and for the ministry that You have for the ministry that You have for the ministry that You have allowed them to have here on allowed them to have here on allowed them to have here on this podcast, this podcast, Women's Lives. Thank you Women's Lives. Thank you Women's Lives. Thank you for the way You are showing for the way You are showing for the way You are showing Your hand and Your hand and Your hand and opening Your opening Your opening Your ways in our lives.

ways in our lives. Father, we pause Father, we pause and reflect on and reflect on and reflect on all the many gifts all the many gifts all the many gifts that You have given each of that You have given each of that You have given each of us and all the us and all the us and all the blessings that are in blessings that are in blessings that are in our path. Father, I our path. Father, I our path. Father, I pray that each of pray that each of pray that each of us will continue to us will continue to us will continue to be faithful and be faithful and be faithful and continue to continue to continue to proclaim proclaim proclaim the Gospel not only with the Gospel not only with the Gospel not only with our words but also with our words but also with our words but also with our lives, that as a our lives, that as a our lives, that as a result people result people result people will turn to You, will turn to You, will turn to You, that You will receive the glory. that You will receive the glory. So, Father, as So, Father, as we reflect on where we reflect on where we reflect on where You are working in our You are working in our You are working in our lives, Father, I pray lives, Father, I pray lives, Father, I pray that we will continue that we will continue that we will continue to be sensitive to the to be sensitive to the to be sensitive to the leading of Your leading of Your leading of Your Holy Spirit and that we will Holy Spirit and that we will Holy Spirit and that we will be obedient. And be obedient. And be obedient. And Father, that we will Father, that we will Father, that we will continue to be continue to be continue to be open open open vessels that You vessels that You vessels that You are using for are using for are using for Your glory. So, Father Your glory. So, Father , we thank You for , we thank You for , we thank You for this ministry. We this ministry. We this ministry. We thank You for Thomas thank You for Thomas thank You for Thomas Road. We thank you for Road. We thank you for Road. We thank you for his leadership and for his leadership and for his leadership and for giving us so giving us so giving us so many opportunities many opportunities many opportunities to be a part of it, and to be a part of it, and to be a part of it, and with that comes with that comes with that comes great great great responsibility, and responsibility, and responsibility, and Father, we want to Father, we want to Father, we want to handle it handle it handle it properly. So, properly. So, properly. So, again, thank you again, thank you again, thank you for everything that You've given us.

for everything that You've given us. for everything that You've given us. We pray this in We pray this in We pray this in Your name. Amen. Your name. Amen. Your name. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Amen. Thank you. Amen. Thank you. Thank you to everyone who Thank you to everyone who Thank you to everyone who came. came. came. Thank you. Well, it was Thank you. Well, it was Thank you. Well, it was great. It great. It great. It was. I know. was. I know. was. I know. It's probably one of It's probably one of It's probably one of my favorite my favorite my favorite episodes. episodes. episodes. She's so She's so She's so excited. excited. excited. I know. I was really I know. I was really I know. I was really excited about it. excited about it. excited about it. Sue. Sue. Sue. Yeah. I don't think we have anything else Yeah. I don't think we have anything else Yeah. I don't think we have anything else . . . No. That's it. No. That's it. No. That's it. So until next So until next So until next time. time. time. That's right. That's right. That's right. I'm Mackenzie. I'm Mackenzie. I'm Mackenzie. And I'm Sue. And I'm Sue. And I'm Sue. And I'll see you And I'll see you And I'll see you later.