E445 Gen Z and the Church with Tanita Maddox

[Music] [Music] This is a Saddleback Church podcast. This is a Saddleback Church podcast. This is a Saddleback Church podcast. >> The next generation will live into the >> The next generation will live into the >> The next generation will live into the words we speak over them. So we should words we speak over them. So we should words we speak over them. So we should consider what words we are speaking over consider what words we are speaking over consider what words we are speaking over Gen Z. We older generations are Gen Z. We older generations are Gen Z. We older generations are responsible for raising, stewarding, and responsible for raising, stewarding, and responsible for raising, stewarding, and discipling the next generation. And discipling the next generation. And discipling the next generation. And right now they are hearing from us. We right now they are hearing from us. We right now they are hearing from us. We don't like you. don't like you. don't like you. An excerpt from what Gen Z really wants An excerpt from what Gen Z really wants An excerpt from what Gen Z really wants to know about God. to know about God. to know about God. We're in a bit of a tale as old as time We're in a bit of a tale as old as time We're in a bit of a tale as old as time moment. There is a lot of discussion moment. There is a lot of discussion moment. There is a lot of discussion around Gen Z and a lot of it negative. around Gen Z and a lot of it negative. around Gen Z and a lot of it negative. Honestly, this seems like a not uncommon Honestly, this seems like a not uncommon Honestly, this seems like a not uncommon issue where the older generations speak issue where the older generations speak issue where the older generations speak negatively about younger generations. negatively about younger generations. negatively about younger generations. But there is something that does seem But there is something that does seem But there is something that does seem different about the conversation different about the conversation different about the conversation surrounding Gen Z.

surrounding Gen Z. surrounding Gen Z. Gen Z is considered the first Gen Z is considered the first Gen Z is considered the first digit digital native generation and digit digital native generation and digit digital native generation and there is data to show a decline in there is data to show a decline in there is data to show a decline in church engagement in Gen Z. church engagement in Gen Z. church engagement in Gen Z. As I read from the excerpt earlier, As I read from the excerpt earlier, As I read from the excerpt earlier, there is a narrative in place that Gen Z there is a narrative in place that Gen Z there is a narrative in place that Gen Z is lazy, is difficult, is is weak. is lazy, is difficult, is is weak. is lazy, is difficult, is is weak. But what if we flipped the narrative? But what if we flipped the narrative? But what if we flipped the narrative? What if we approached Gen Z with hope What if we approached Gen Z with hope What if we approached Gen Z with hope and optimism, maybe even appreciation and optimism, maybe even appreciation and optimism, maybe even appreciation for what we can learn from them? for what we can learn from them? for what we can learn from them? Gen Z isn't just the future of the Gen Z isn't just the future of the Gen Z isn't just the future of the church. It's the church today. So, how church. It's the church today. So, how church. It's the church today. So, how can we think of and approach Gen Z can we think of and approach Gen Z can we think of and approach Gen Z differently than the prevailing differently than the prevailing differently than the prevailing narratives tell us we should? My guest narratives tell us we should? My guest narratives tell us we should? My guest today is Dr. Tonita Maddox, national today is Dr. Tonita Maddox, national today is Dr. Tonita Maddox, national director of Young Life and author of the director of Young Life and author of the director of Young Life and author of the new book, What Gen Z Really Wants to new book, What Gen Z Really Wants to new book, What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God. In this conversation, we Know About God. In this conversation, we Know About God. In this conversation, we talk about who Gen Z is. We talk about talk about who Gen Z is. We talk about talk about who Gen Z is. We talk about how they think, the relationship between how they think, the relationship between how they think, the relationship between Gen Z and the church, and why we should Gen Z and the church, and why we should Gen Z and the church, and why we should not only be hopeful about Gen Z, but not only be hopeful about Gen Z, but not only be hopeful about Gen Z, but even see them as a brave, resilient even see them as a brave, resilient even see them as a brave, resilient generation.

generation. generation. My name is Jason Wheeland and this is My name is Jason Wheeland and this is My name is Jason Wheeland and this is dual disciplehip. dual disciplehip. dual disciplehip. Now, my conversation with Dr. Now, my conversation with Dr. Now, my conversation with Dr. Tanita Maddox on Gen Z. Tanita Maddox on Gen Z. Tanita Maddox on Gen Z. [Music] [Music] [Music] All right, I'm joined by Dr. Tanita All right, I'm joined by Dr. Tanita All right, I'm joined by Dr. Tanita Maddox. Um, let's uh talk about Gen Z. Maddox. Um, let's uh talk about Gen Z. Maddox. Um, let's uh talk about Gen Z. I'm really excited about this and I'm really excited about this and I'm really excited about this and specifically too because I specifically too because I specifically too because I am I'm going to admit some naive right am I'm going to admit some naive right am I'm going to admit some naive right at the get-go. I am a person who is at the get-go. I am a person who is at the get-go. I am a person who is terrible at trying to sus out the terrible at trying to sus out the terrible at trying to sus out the generations and what makes a generation. generations and what makes a generation. generations and what makes a generation. I'm, you know, I hear a lot about, you I'm, you know, I hear a lot about, you I'm, you know, I hear a lot about, you know, going from boomer to Gen X to know, going from boomer to Gen X to know, going from boomer to Gen X to millennials to Gen Z to Gen Alpha and I millennials to Gen Z to Gen Alpha and I millennials to Gen Z to Gen Alpha and I don't know what any of that means. So, don't know what any of that means. So, don't know what any of that means. So, can you help me first off understand can you help me first off understand can you help me first off understand when we're talking about Gen Z, what are when we're talking about Gen Z, what are when we're talking about Gen Z, what are we talking about? You know, you're not we talking about? You know, you're not we talking about? You know, you're not alone in trying to figure that out. And alone in trying to figure that out. And alone in trying to figure that out. And there is, you know, it when it's an there is, you know, it when it's an there is, you know, it when it's an ongoing conversation that offers ongoing conversation that offers ongoing conversation that offers confusion with it. If you use the birth confusion with it. If you use the birth confusion with it. If you use the birth years of 1997 to 2012 for Gen Z, those years of 1997 to 2012 for Gen Z, those years of 1997 to 2012 for Gen Z, those are widely accepted years. So those that are widely accepted years. So those that are widely accepted years. So those that you're going to be in a safe place if you're going to be in a safe place if you're going to be in a safe place if you say Gen Z's 1997 to 2012.

you say Gen Z's 1997 to 2012. you say Gen Z's 1997 to 2012. >> Okay. Gotcha. So, so in theory, you >> Okay. Gotcha. So, so in theory, you >> Okay. Gotcha. So, so in theory, you know, we're talking about like teenagers know, we're talking about like teenagers know, we're talking about like teenagers through 20s, that kind of age. Is that through 20s, that kind of age. Is that through 20s, that kind of age. Is that kind of about right? kind of about right? kind of about right? >> Yeah. We're talking middle school all >> Yeah. We're talking middle school all >> Yeah. We're talking middle school all the way to young professionals. the way to young professionals. the way to young professionals. >> Okay. So, so when we're talking about >> Okay. So, so when we're talking about >> Okay. So, so when we're talking about Gen Z and the church, that's I think Gen Z and the church, that's I think Gen Z and the church, that's I think it's helpful to think about like you're it's helpful to think about like you're it's helpful to think about like you're talking about your student ministries, talking about your student ministries, talking about your student ministries, your junior high ministries, your high your junior high ministries, your high your junior high ministries, your high school ministries, your college school ministries, your college school ministries, your college ministries, and your young adult ministries, and your young adult ministries, and your young adult ministries. And so, um, so everybody now ministries. And so, um, so everybody now ministries. And so, um, so everybody now can kind of picture their own church, can kind of picture their own church, can kind of picture their own church, their own ministries, and I think that their own ministries, and I think that their own ministries, and I think that is helpful. So, what is distinctive is helpful. So, what is distinctive is helpful. So, what is distinctive about Gen Z as we're talking about like about Gen Z as we're talking about like about Gen Z as we're talking about like what separates a Gen Zer from say a what separates a Gen Zer from say a what separates a Gen Zer from say a millennial, which I, you think I fall millennial, which I, you think I fall millennial, which I, you think I fall into a millennial category, uh, or into a millennial category, uh, or into a millennial category, uh, or versus like maybe what we're seeing versus like maybe what we're seeing versus like maybe what we're seeing coming up with a Gen Alpha. coming up with a Gen Alpha. coming up with a Gen Alpha. One of the popular conversations in One of the popular conversations in One of the popular conversations in generational theory is how technology generational theory is how technology generational theory is how technology plays a role in the generational shifts. plays a role in the generational shifts. plays a role in the generational shifts. Yeah. And so that made a big impact with Yeah. And so that made a big impact with Yeah. And so that made a big impact with Gen Z. Millennials, y'all got the Gen Z. Millennials, y'all got the Gen Z. Millennials, y'all got the internet when you were growing up. That internet when you were growing up. That internet when you were growing up. That was a really big deal.

was a really big deal. was a really big deal. >> I still remember dialing into AOL and >> I still remember dialing into AOL and >> I still remember dialing into AOL and taking up the phone lines for the rest taking up the phone lines for the rest taking up the phone lines for the rest of the family. Oh yeah. of the family. Oh yeah. of the family. Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. Clicking on something and then >> Oh yeah. Clicking on something and then >> Oh yeah. Clicking on something and then like making a sandwich while the page like making a sandwich while the page like making a sandwich while the page loaded. Yeah. But that was a really big loaded. Yeah. But that was a really big loaded. Yeah. But that was a really big deal. You know, that's something that deal. You know, that's something that deal. You know, that's something that Gen X didn't have growing up. But Gen Z Gen X didn't have growing up. But Gen Z Gen X didn't have growing up. But Gen Z had access to smart interactive had access to smart interactive had access to smart interactive technology from a very young age. And so technology from a very young age. And so technology from a very young age. And so they are often referred to as digital they are often referred to as digital they are often referred to as digital natives because they um some people say natives because they um some people say natives because they um some people say they could swipe before they could they could swipe before they could they could swipe before they could speak. That they could speak. That they could speak. That they could >> work in technology. They know the online >> work in technology. They know the online >> work in technology. They know the online spaces really well. They know the spaces really well. They know the spaces really well. They know the digital spaces really well. They're digital spaces really well. They're digital spaces really well. They're they're kind of first language speakers they're kind of first language speakers they're kind of first language speakers in the digital culture. And so they're in the digital culture. And so they're in the digital culture. And so they're really comfortable in those places. Um really comfortable in those places. Um really comfortable in those places. Um and so that's one big thing. Another big and so that's one big thing. Another big and so that's one big thing. Another big thing with Gen Z is they have a high thing with Gen Z is they have a high thing with Gen Z is they have a high high value of safety and that really is high value of safety and that really is high value of safety and that really is distinctive from previous generations. distinctive from previous generations. distinctive from previous generations. It's not just physical safety like you It's not just physical safety like you It's not just physical safety like you know when I I'm a Gen Xer so I was know when I I'm a Gen Xer so I was know when I I'm a Gen Xer so I was growing up it was like stranger danger growing up it was like stranger danger growing up it was like stranger danger was like a thing but mostly it was like was like a thing but mostly it was like was like a thing but mostly it was like >> our rules like don't sit in the back of >> our rules like don't sit in the back of >> our rules like don't sit in the back of a pickup truck and don't talk to a pickup truck and don't talk to a pickup truck and don't talk to strangers. So those are kind of like the strangers. So those are kind of like the strangers. So those are kind of like the the safety rules.

the safety rules. the safety rules. >> But for Gen Z and as we talk about, you >> But for Gen Z and as we talk about, you >> But for Gen Z and as we talk about, you know, safety in our culture right now, know, safety in our culture right now, know, safety in our culture right now, it is so broad, right? It's physical, it is so broad, right? It's physical, it is so broad, right? It's physical, emotional, psychological, spiritual, uh emotional, psychological, spiritual, uh emotional, psychological, spiritual, uh it's gotten expanded to safety from it's gotten expanded to safety from it's gotten expanded to safety from disagreement, safety from being disagreement, safety from being disagreement, safety from being uncomfortable, safety from failure, uncomfortable, safety from failure, uncomfortable, safety from failure, safety from risk, but all that they were safety from risk, but all that they were safety from risk, but all that they were raised with. And so they have a very, raised with. And so they have a very, raised with. And so they have a very, very high value of safety. And that is very high value of safety. And that is very high value of safety. And that is distinctive of this generation. distinctive of this generation. distinctive of this generation. >> Okay. I find that part really >> Okay. I find that part really >> Okay. I find that part really interesting and it just cuz I'm thinking interesting and it just cuz I'm thinking interesting and it just cuz I'm thinking about it in terms of my own experience about it in terms of my own experience about it in terms of my own experience like I like I like I for kids growing up in the 80s for for kids growing up in the 80s for for kids growing up in the 80s for example like and people now like you can example like and people now like you can example like and people now like you can watch things like Stranger Things or ET watch things like Stranger Things or ET watch things like Stranger Things or ET you know these thing and get a picture you know these thing and get a picture you know these thing and get a picture of what it was like where kids could of what it was like where kids could of what it was like where kids could just go off on their own and bikes and just go off on their own and bikes and just go off on their own and bikes and it was just kind of you know a bit of it was just kind of you know a bit of it was just kind of you know a bit of like a latch key kid generation a little like a latch key kid generation a little like a latch key kid generation a little bit uh where there was kind of a sense bit uh where there was kind of a sense bit uh where there was kind of a sense freedom of getting yourself to and from freedom of getting yourself to and from freedom of getting yourself to and from places places places going going off with your friends. So, going going off with your friends. So, going going off with your friends. So, and then in the '9s when I was growing and then in the '9s when I was growing and then in the '9s when I was growing up, that was like not our reality. We we up, that was like not our reality. We we up, that was like not our reality. We we we did not like bike around anywhere.

we did not like bike around anywhere. we did not like bike around anywhere. There was an emphasis on your physical There was an emphasis on your physical There was an emphasis on your physical safety, like you having your parents safety, like you having your parents safety, like you having your parents pick you up and take you to things. It pick you up and take you to things. It pick you up and take you to things. It was it was like the uh chauffeuring type was it was like the uh chauffeuring type was it was like the uh chauffeuring type of generation of going to and from of generation of going to and from of generation of going to and from places, being driven places and whatnot. places, being driven places and whatnot. places, being driven places and whatnot. >> And and I think you're right that then >> And and I think you're right that then >> And and I think you're right that then then we started to see kind of a shift then we started to see kind of a shift then we started to see kind of a shift towards more talking about not just not towards more talking about not just not towards more talking about not just not just the physical safety but emotional just the physical safety but emotional just the physical safety but emotional safety and talking about mental health safety and talking about mental health safety and talking about mental health started becoming more of a a a prevalent started becoming more of a a a prevalent started becoming more of a a a prevalent thing. So um safety started looking thing. So um safety started looking thing. So um safety started looking different. it started having all these different. it started having all these different. it started having all these layers added to it. Um, now what's layers added to it. Um, now what's layers added to it. Um, now what's interesting is we've almost shifted back interesting is we've almost shifted back interesting is we've almost shifted back a little bit on the physical safety side a little bit on the physical safety side a little bit on the physical safety side to be more like the early8s where you to be more like the early8s where you to be more like the early8s where you see kids on ebikes now all the time. I see kids on ebikes now all the time. I see kids on ebikes now all the time. I don't know where it is or how life is in don't know where it is or how life is in don't know where it is or how life is in Spokane, but here at least where I grew Spokane, but here at least where I grew Spokane, but here at least where I grew up, nobody biked around to go to houses. up, nobody biked around to go to houses. up, nobody biked around to go to houses. Now it's like kids on ebikes going Now it's like kids on ebikes going Now it's like kids on ebikes going everywhere. It's like a It's It feels everywhere. It's like a It's It feels everywhere. It's like a It's It feels like you're watching a movie from the like you're watching a movie from the like you're watching a movie from the early '8s again of like kids just going early '8s again of like kids just going early '8s again of like kids just going going off doing their own thing. So, going off doing their own thing. So, going off doing their own thing. So, it's it's like a shifting is it's like a it's it's like a shifting is it's like a it's it's like a shifting is it's like a pendulum swing on physical safety, but pendulum swing on physical safety, but pendulum swing on physical safety, but we've seen a continued increase in we've seen a continued increase in we've seen a continued increase in awareness of emotional security, of awareness of emotional security, of awareness of emotional security, of mental health security, you know, that mental health security, you know, that mental health security, you know, that type of stuff. So, it is in I I I find type of stuff. So, it is in I I I find type of stuff. So, it is in I I I find that security and safety thing really that security and safety thing really that security and safety thing really interesting.

interesting. interesting. >> Well, I like that you called it the >> Well, I like that you called it the >> Well, I like that you called it the freedom of the 80s. I think we called it freedom of the 80s. I think we called it freedom of the 80s. I think we called it being feral. That was mostly what it being feral. That was mostly what it being feral. That was mostly what it was, right? And and so here, most of Gen was, right? And and so here, most of Gen was, right? And and so here, most of Gen Z were raised by Gen Xers. And so some Z were raised by Gen Xers. And so some Z were raised by Gen Xers. And so some of the conversation is, well, what of the conversation is, well, what of the conversation is, well, what happened to Gen X that they raised their happened to Gen X that they raised their happened to Gen X that they raised their kids? kids? kids? >> Oh, that's true. Want to be safe all the >> Oh, that's true. Want to be safe all the >> Oh, that's true. Want to be safe all the time. And some of it is those time. And some of it is those time. And some of it is those experiences of being feral children. experiences of being feral children. experiences of being feral children. That's funny. That's funny. That's funny. >> Part of it was when we Gen Xers were >> Part of it was when we Gen Xers were >> Part of it was when we Gen Xers were growing up. It's the first time that growing up. It's the first time that growing up. It's the first time that kids were on milk cartons. It's the kids were on milk cartons. It's the kids were on milk cartons. It's the first time that kidnappings were on first time that kidnappings were on first time that kidnappings were on national news. Again, stranger danger national news. Again, stranger danger national news. Again, stranger danger added to the colloquium of the of the added to the colloquium of the of the added to the colloquium of the of the country. And so all of a sudden, there country. And so all of a sudden, there country. And so all of a sudden, there was this realization that bad things can was this realization that bad things can was this realization that bad things can happen to kids. So if you're a child and happen to kids. So if you're a child and happen to kids. So if you're a child and you're growing up with that mentality, you're growing up with that mentality, you're growing up with that mentality, then I it only makes sense that as then I it only makes sense that as then I it only makes sense that as you're raising children, you say, "I you're raising children, you say, "I you're raising children, you say, "I don't want these things to happen to my don't want these things to happen to my don't want these things to happen to my kids. I'm going to protect them kids. I'm going to protect them kids. I'm going to protect them >> at all costs and I can't because we have >> at all costs and I can't because we have >> at all costs and I can't because we have all these little devices that do all all these little devices that do all all these little devices that do all those things." But one of the shifts those things." But one of the shifts those things." But one of the shifts that's actually happening now as you that's actually happening now as you that's actually happening now as you mentioned seeing smaller like kids that mentioned seeing smaller like kids that mentioned seeing smaller like kids that are riding around as we talk about are riding around as we talk about are riding around as we talk about earlier research coming out on Gen Alpha earlier research coming out on Gen Alpha earlier research coming out on Gen Alpha is that parents of Gen Alpha who've been is that parents of Gen Alpha who've been is that parents of Gen Alpha who've been watching what's happening with Gen Z are watching what's happening with Gen Z are watching what's happening with Gen Z are actually now more proactively having actually now more proactively having actually now more proactively having conversations with their young kids to conversations with their young kids to conversations with their young kids to prepare them for the world instead of prepare them for the world instead of prepare them for the world instead of protect them from the world. So as a Gen protect them from the world. So as a Gen protect them from the world. So as a Gen Xer we were taught the world is Xer we were taught the world is Xer we were taught the world is dangerous so be smart like keep your dangerous so be smart like keep your dangerous so be smart like keep your head on a swivel learn how to to deal head on a swivel learn how to to deal head on a swivel learn how to to deal with it. And then I think we just didn't with it. And then I think we just didn't with it. And then I think we just didn't want that for our kids and then we want that for our kids and then we want that for our kids and then we overprotected them in in too many ways.

overprotected them in in too many ways. overprotected them in in too many ways. And then now the parents are saying, And then now the parents are saying, And then now the parents are saying, "Oh, we can't do that. We need to "Oh, we can't do that. We need to "Oh, we can't do that. We need to prepare them." So they're having prepare them." So they're having prepare them." So they're having conversations about gun violence and conversations about gun violence and conversations about gun violence and discrimination and internet safety at a discrimination and internet safety at a discrimination and internet safety at a much much much younger age to prepare much much much younger age to prepare much much much younger age to prepare their kids to engage the world. their kids to engage the world. their kids to engage the world. >> Okay. So, so if we have this picture of >> Okay. So, so if we have this picture of >> Okay. So, so if we have this picture of Gen Z, we have this picture of a bit of Gen Z, we have this picture of a bit of Gen Z, we have this picture of a bit of what it's like. We talked about the what it's like. We talked about the what it's like. We talked about the digital age with Gen Z. But we talk digital age with Gen Z. But we talk digital age with Gen Z. But we talk about this emphasis on safety and about this emphasis on safety and about this emphasis on safety and security in a different way. So I want security in a different way. So I want security in a different way. So I want to shift now to kind of where we're at to shift now to kind of where we're at to shift now to kind of where we're at with the church in Gen Z. And I found with the church in Gen Z. And I found with the church in Gen Z. And I found this really interesting as I was reading this really interesting as I was reading this really interesting as I was reading through your book and then doing through your book and then doing through your book and then doing research on the side is it seemed to me research on the side is it seemed to me research on the side is it seemed to me like we're at a crossroads. So I'm h I'm like we're at a crossroads. So I'm h I'm like we're at a crossroads. So I'm h I'm excited to have you kind of break this excited to have you kind of break this excited to have you kind of break this down for me a little bit. So there's a down for me a little bit. So there's a down for me a little bit. So there's a lot of data and research that have been lot of data and research that have been lot of data and research that have been showing this, you know, worrying decline showing this, you know, worrying decline showing this, you know, worrying decline in church engagement with Gen Z, but in church engagement with Gen Z, but in church engagement with Gen Z, but there's also like some reports that there's also like some reports that there's also like some reports that maybe that decline has started to even maybe that decline has started to even maybe that decline has started to even out to plateau a little bit or even out to plateau a little bit or even out to plateau a little bit or even start to see a little bit of an uptick.

start to see a little bit of an uptick. start to see a little bit of an uptick. Um, particularly on the male side. Um I Um, particularly on the male side. Um I Um, particularly on the male side. Um I I've seen uh but then I've seen people I've seen uh but then I've seen people I've seen uh but then I've seen people counteract those reports and say like no counteract those reports and say like no counteract those reports and say like no don't believe that that it's really don't believe that that it's really don't believe that that it's really plateaued. Don't believe it's upticking. plateaued. Don't believe it's upticking. plateaued. Don't believe it's upticking. That's just noise in the data or That's just noise in the data or That's just noise in the data or whatever it is. So whatever it is. So whatever it is. So what's the real story about what's what's the real story about what's what's the real story about what's happening with Gen Z in the church? happening with Gen Z in the church? happening with Gen Z in the church? >> Look, that's the milliondoll question. I >> Look, that's the milliondoll question. I >> Look, that's the milliondoll question. I think so. think so. think so. >> It is cuz I like you need what what to >> It is cuz I like you need what what to >> It is cuz I like you need what what to make real good conclusions about what's make real good conclusions about what's make real good conclusions about what's happening. you need consistent respon or happening. you need consistent respon or happening. you need consistent respon or um conclusions and results from a wide um conclusions and results from a wide um conclusions and results from a wide array of surveys that are happening from array of surveys that are happening from array of surveys that are happening from different sources. Uh because as you different sources. Uh because as you different sources. Uh because as you know in the world of research like know in the world of research like know in the world of research like whoever's funding that research whoever's funding that research whoever's funding that research sometimes can like you know direct some sometimes can like you know direct some sometimes can like you know direct some of the stuff not all the time not all of the stuff not all the time not all of the stuff not all the time not all the time but sometimes the time but sometimes the time but sometimes >> and I it's been really hard to get a >> and I it's been really hard to get a >> and I it's been really hard to get a good feel on what's happening with Gen Z good feel on what's happening with Gen Z good feel on what's happening with Gen Z in the church. I think you're talking in the church. I think you're talking in the church. I think you're talking you referenced maybe possibly the Pew you referenced maybe possibly the Pew you referenced maybe possibly the Pew Research like religious landscape in the Research like religious landscape in the Research like religious landscape in the United States. Yeah. And that one's United States. Yeah. And that one's United States. Yeah. And that one's interesting because it says, you know, interesting because it says, you know, interesting because it says, you know, that the the decline has slowed and that the the decline has slowed and that the the decline has slowed and they're looking at that middle chunk, they're looking at that middle chunk, they're looking at that middle chunk, right? But they also say in that in that right? But they also say in that in that right? But they also say in that in that report that the unstickiness of faith is report that the unstickiness of faith is report that the unstickiness of faith is sticking with Gen Z that if that they're sticking with Gen Z that if that they're sticking with Gen Z that if that they're not coming back to the church not coming back to the church not coming back to the church essentially and that if we want to essentially and that if we want to essentially and that if we want to maintain the religious landscape where maintain the religious landscape where maintain the religious landscape where we are now that they would have to we are now that they would have to we are now that they would have to become significantly more religious than become significantly more religious than become significantly more religious than they are. some of the other stuff you they are. some of the other stuff you they are. some of the other stuff you might mention that you know um I know might mention that you know um I know might mention that you know um I know you didn't name drop these gohead

you didn't name drop these gohead you didn't name drop these gohead and access coming out with some other and access coming out with some other and access coming out with some other stuff like hey this stuff is really stuff like hey this stuff is really stuff like hey this stuff is really improving or even the quiet revival that improving or even the quiet revival that improving or even the quiet revival that came out of the UK came out of the UK came out of the UK >> is showing some improvement you know and >> is showing some improvement you know and >> is showing some improvement you know and it is but even their questions are not it is but even their questions are not it is but even their questions are not the same questions that they're asking the same questions that they're asking the same questions that they're asking across these different reports it's across these different reports it's across these different reports it's really hard to get a good feel for really hard to get a good feel for really hard to get a good feel for what's going on I think that Barn study what's going on I think that Barn study what's going on I think that Barn study is the most close we get to actually is the most close we get to actually is the most close we get to actually talking about who Jesus is and people talking about who Jesus is and people talking about who Jesus is and people making a real like a a commitment to making a real like a a commitment to making a real like a a commitment to Jesus Some of these studies talk about Jesus Some of these studies talk about Jesus Some of these studies talk about believe in a higher power or being more believe in a higher power or being more believe in a higher power or being more spiritual and that's hard to get our spiritual and that's hard to get our spiritual and that's hard to get our hands on. So I think it's too soon to hands on. So I think it's too soon to hands on. So I think it's too soon to tell but u the the the numbers about tell but u the the the numbers about tell but u the the the numbers about males being involved that's consistent males being involved that's consistent males being involved that's consistent across a lot of surveys you know and so across a lot of surveys you know and so across a lot of surveys you know and so now people are trying to look into why now people are trying to look into why now people are trying to look into why the Gen Z males have returned to the the Gen Z males have returned to the the Gen Z males have returned to the church in a lot of ways but it'll I church in a lot of ways but it'll I church in a lot of ways but it'll I think it'll take a few years to see think it'll take a few years to see think it'll take a few years to see what's going on. these people are still what's going on. these people are still what's going on. these people are still growing up. They're still becoming growing up. They're still becoming growing up. They're still becoming adults, you know. So, we'll see what adults, you know. So, we'll see what adults, you know. So, we'll see what happens when they get married and have happens when they get married and have happens when they get married and have kids and uh what happens. kids and uh what happens. kids and uh what happens. >> Well, I know I think that's that's a >> Well, I know I think that's that's a >> Well, I know I think that's that's a completely fair point to keep in mind is completely fair point to keep in mind is completely fair point to keep in mind is is these are still kids in large parts is these are still kids in large parts is these are still kids in large parts that we're talking about. And I I do that we're talking about. And I I do that we're talking about. And I I do think as you were talking about this, think as you were talking about this, think as you were talking about this, what I found um or I should say what what I found um or I should say what what I found um or I should say what stuck in my mind was that idea of stuck in my mind was that idea of stuck in my mind was that idea of engagement of what are we defining as engagement of what are we defining as engagement of what are we defining as engagement? you can see, you know, a lot engagement? you can see, you know, a lot engagement? you can see, you know, a lot of Gen Z like we've seen at different of Gen Z like we've seen at different of Gen Z like we've seen at different events that we've had, whether it's like events that we've had, whether it's like events that we've had, whether it's like nights of worship or um or or whatnot, nights of worship or um or or whatnot, nights of worship or um or or whatnot, you know, last year at Saddleback, we you know, last year at Saddleback, we you know, last year at Saddleback, we had this event called the return had this event called the return had this event called the return gathering and we saw a a lot of that Gen

gathering and we saw a a lot of that Gen gathering and we saw a a lot of that Gen Z age there and involved and, you know, Z age there and involved and, you know, Z age there and involved and, you know, deeply engaged in that. Um, but if deeply engaged in that. Um, but if deeply engaged in that. Um, but if you're characterizing engagement by, you you're characterizing engagement by, you you're characterizing engagement by, you know, weekly attendance by by engaging know, weekly attendance by by engaging know, weekly attendance by by engaging with programs or activities beyond just with programs or activities beyond just with programs or activities beyond just your weekend service, you know, being in your weekend service, you know, being in your weekend service, you know, being in small groups or or or being volunteers small groups or or or being volunteers small groups or or or being volunteers or certain like that is something I'm or certain like that is something I'm or certain like that is something I'm not sure about here at Saddleback, but not sure about here at Saddleback, but not sure about here at Saddleback, but I'm but in general, that's a different I'm but in general, that's a different I'm but in general, that's a different type of engagement. And so I think type of engagement. And so I think type of engagement. And so I think that's a great question of what are we that's a great question of what are we that's a great question of what are we defining as engagement when we're defining as engagement when we're defining as engagement when we're talking about seeing Gen Z engaged or talking about seeing Gen Z engaged or talking about seeing Gen Z engaged or the lack of stickiness like you were the lack of stickiness like you were the lack of stickiness like you were talking about um how there's a talking about um how there's a talking about um how there's a possibility I would say that it might be possibility I would say that it might be possibility I would say that it might be more event-based that we see a Jenzi more event-based that we see a Jenzi more event-based that we see a Jenzi come out to these you know events with come out to these you know events with come out to these you know events with their friends and they have you know and their friends and they have you know and their friends and they have you know and whatnot but the altogether daily or whatnot but the altogether daily or whatnot but the altogether daily or weekly type of stickiness of the church weekly type of stickiness of the church weekly type of stickiness of the church might not be the same as maybe we've might not be the same as maybe we've might not be the same as maybe we've seen it in previous generations. seen it in previous generations. seen it in previous generations. >> Well, one of the benefits of the quiet >> Well, one of the benefits of the quiet >> Well, one of the benefits of the quiet revival study out of the UK is they they revival study out of the UK is they they revival study out of the UK is they they said that I think we've moved so far said that I think we've moved so far said that I think we've moved so far kind of past that post-Christian as kind of past that post-Christian as kind of past that post-Christian as people are talking about the study that people are talking about the study that people are talking about the study that that people now know have they don't that people now know have they don't that people now know have they don't have a reference. There's not like a have a reference. There's not like a have a reference. There's not like a negative negative negative >> experience with churches. They're like >> experience with churches. They're like >> experience with churches. They're like what there's an actual legitimate what there's an actual legitimate what there's an actual legitimate curiosity. And so you see some of these curiosity. And so you see some of these curiosity. And so you see some of these measurements of how Jenz is engaging measurements of how Jenz is engaging measurements of how Jenz is engaging with prayer, how they're engaging with with prayer, how they're engaging with with prayer, how they're engaging with reading their Bible. So, I do think that reading their Bible. So, I do think that reading their Bible. So, I do think that what is consistent across a lot of these what is consistent across a lot of these what is consistent across a lot of these is there's curiosity for sure among Gen is there's curiosity for sure among Gen is there's curiosity for sure among Gen Z and that's that's a really really fun

Z and that's that's a really really fun Z and that's that's a really really fun place to be um especially when they're place to be um especially when they're place to be um especially when they're coming in saying I actually don't know coming in saying I actually don't know coming in saying I actually don't know anything instead of you are a problem. anything instead of you are a problem. anything instead of you are a problem. >> Well, no and that's and that's a perfect >> Well, no and that's and that's a perfect >> Well, no and that's and that's a perfect uh segue into what I wanted to talk uh segue into what I wanted to talk uh segue into what I wanted to talk about with you next, which is the about with you next, which is the about with you next, which is the questions that Gen Z is asking. In the questions that Gen Z is asking. In the questions that Gen Z is asking. In the book, you lay out a a core problem book, you lay out a a core problem book, you lay out a a core problem between the church and Gen Z. And and between the church and Gen Z. And and between the church and Gen Z. And and I've I've had this conversation with I've I've had this conversation with I've I've had this conversation with with some others on this podcast, too, with some others on this podcast, too, with some others on this podcast, too, which is asking like, what is the which is asking like, what is the which is asking like, what is the tension point? And you lay it out that tension point? And you lay it out that tension point? And you lay it out that that the tension point is that the that the tension point is that the that the tension point is that the church is answering questions that Gen Z church is answering questions that Gen Z church is answering questions that Gen Z isn't asking. And the church is not a isn't asking. And the church is not a isn't asking. And the church is not a answering questions that Gen Z is answering questions that Gen Z is answering questions that Gen Z is asking, or at least it's not on its asking, or at least it's not on its asking, or at least it's not on its face. It's not what the church has grown face. It's not what the church has grown face. It's not what the church has grown comfortable in wanting to, you know, be comfortable in wanting to, you know, be comfortable in wanting to, you know, be outward saying like this, you know, outward saying like this, you know, outward saying like this, you know, answering this, this, this, or talking answering this, this, this, or talking answering this, this, this, or talking about this, this, this. Whereas Gen Z as about this, this, this. Whereas Gen Z as about this, this, this. Whereas Gen Z as a generation is asking these questions. a generation is asking these questions. a generation is asking these questions. I' I've talked with a few different I' I've talked with a few different I' I've talked with a few different college professors and I asked them college professors and I asked them college professors and I asked them like, what are they asking in your like, what are they asking in your like, what are they asking in your classrooms? And they're asking the same classrooms? And they're asking the same classrooms? And they're asking the same questions that you bring up in the book.

questions that you bring up in the book. questions that you bring up in the book. Yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%. It's like, yeah, Yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%. It's like, yeah, Yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%. It's like, yeah, it's all it's all about these kind of it's all it's all about these kind of it's all it's all about these kind of deeper questions. It's not questions of deeper questions. It's not questions of deeper questions. It's not questions of doctrine. They're not wanting to know doctrine. They're not wanting to know doctrine. They're not wanting to know about, you know, the validity of the about, you know, the validity of the about, you know, the validity of the Bible or whatever. It's it's all Bible or whatever. It's it's all Bible or whatever. It's it's all questions like you have in your book. Am questions like you have in your book. Am questions like you have in your book. Am I enough? Am I accepted? Is God good? I enough? Am I accepted? Is God good? I enough? Am I accepted? Is God good? Can I, you know, I trust? And it's all Can I, you know, I trust? And it's all Can I, you know, I trust? And it's all of those type of questions which I think of those type of questions which I think of those type of questions which I think for churches it's like a shift because I for churches it's like a shift because I for churches it's like a shift because I think in the '9s the 2000s it was this think in the '9s the 2000s it was this think in the '9s the 2000s it was this go back to doctrine. Let's let's set up go back to doctrine. Let's let's set up go back to doctrine. Let's let's set up of what we believe and you know and and of what we believe and you know and and of what we believe and you know and and answer these questions. It was heavy on answer these questions. It was heavy on answer these questions. It was heavy on apologetics apologetics apologetics to you know because because the battle to you know because because the battle to you know because because the battle quote unquote battle back then was quote unquote battle back then was quote unquote battle back then was against the atheists or the new atheists against the atheists or the new atheists against the atheists or the new atheists and whatnot. So there were always these and whatnot. So there were always these and whatnot. So there were always these conversations between the theists and conversations between the theists and conversations between the theists and the atheists and so the church had to the atheists and so the church had to the atheists and so the church had to answer those. But now you have a answer those. But now you have a answer those. But now you have a generation that's more asking these generation that's more asking these generation that's more asking these questions that I it sounds like are questions that I it sounds like are questions that I it sounds like are related to that topic of security and related to that topic of security and related to that topic of security and safety of am I safe? Am I accepted? Am I safety of am I safe? Am I accepted? Am I safety of am I safe? Am I accepted? Am I you know what? All those questions. So you know what? All those questions. So you know what? All those questions. So can you help to break this down for us a can you help to break this down for us a can you help to break this down for us a little bit? um how would you define little bit? um how would you define little bit? um how would you define the problem or talk about what we were the problem or talk about what we were the problem or talk about what we were we're just talking about as this core we're just talking about as this core we're just talking about as this core issue and then what where are these issue and then what where are these issue and then what where are these questions coming from?

questions coming from? questions coming from? >> Oh man, and some of these questions are >> Oh man, and some of these questions are >> Oh man, and some of these questions are timeless, right? Like it's they're not timeless, right? Like it's they're not timeless, right? Like it's they're not necessarily unique to this generation, necessarily unique to this generation, necessarily unique to this generation, but the context around the question is but the context around the question is but the context around the question is what changes and that means we have to what changes and that means we have to what changes and that means we have to change our answer because otherwise, you change our answer because otherwise, you change our answer because otherwise, you know, we we're answering something that know, we we're answering something that know, we we're answering something that is not relevant to the actual core is not relevant to the actual core is not relevant to the actual core context of that question. And I would context of that question. And I would context of that question. And I would say like I started to figure this out say like I started to figure this out say like I started to figure this out because I was, you know, as a young life because I was, you know, as a young life because I was, you know, as a young life leader sharing the gospel in front of leader sharing the gospel in front of leader sharing the gospel in front of adolescence, front of teenagers and adolescence, front of teenagers and adolescence, front of teenagers and seeing things that that weren't landing. seeing things that that weren't landing. seeing things that that weren't landing. And you know, I'm trying to talk about And you know, I'm trying to talk about And you know, I'm trying to talk about things like the divinity and humanity of things like the divinity and humanity of things like the divinity and humanity of Jesus Christ that what sin is and the Jesus Christ that what sin is and the Jesus Christ that what sin is and the consequences there are, you know, moving consequences there are, you know, moving consequences there are, you know, moving through these pieces and it just felt through these pieces and it just felt through these pieces and it just felt like like like >> uh they just weren't connecting with it. >> uh they just weren't connecting with it. >> uh they just weren't connecting with it. And what I've realized is that they And what I've realized is that they And what I've realized is that they didn't they weren't asking is Jesus God? didn't they weren't asking is Jesus God? didn't they weren't asking is Jesus God? you know, is he really human? And I do you know, is he really human? And I do you know, is he really human? And I do think we should talk about those things. think we should talk about those things. think we should talk about those things. Doctrine is really important. We really Doctrine is really important. We really Doctrine is really important. We really need to share it. But what I wasn't need to share it. But what I wasn't need to share it. But what I wasn't doing was saying, how does this doing was saying, how does this doing was saying, how does this theology, how does this doctrine impact theology, how does this doctrine impact theology, how does this doctrine impact your everyday life? your everyday life? your everyday life? >> When you get up and walk out of this >> When you get up and walk out of this >> When you get up and walk out of this room, how does this change anything room, how does this change anything room, how does this change anything about how you are engaging with about how you are engaging with about how you are engaging with yourself, you're engaging with others, yourself, you're engaging with others, yourself, you're engaging with others, you're engaging with God. Yeah.

you're engaging with God. Yeah. you're engaging with God. Yeah. >> And that's kind of the whole and that is >> And that's kind of the whole and that is >> And that's kind of the whole and that is kind of the you'll you'll hear movements kind of the you'll you'll hear movements kind of the you'll you'll hear movements of cultural apologetics now, right? of cultural apologetics now, right? of cultural apologetics now, right? that. So we had apologetics. Now we have that. So we had apologetics. Now we have that. So we had apologetics. Now we have and cultural apologetics a little more and cultural apologetics a little more and cultural apologetics a little more specific to how do I understand this specific to how do I understand this specific to how do I understand this culture and so that I can share what's culture and so that I can share what's culture and so that I can share what's going on and can make a defense for the going on and can make a defense for the going on and can make a defense for the faith or just share a theology and faith or just share a theology and faith or just share a theology and doctrine in a way that makes sense doctrine in a way that makes sense doctrine in a way that makes sense within this culture within their value within this culture within their value within this culture within their value system, their language. Uh as Rebecca system, their language. Uh as Rebecca system, their language. Uh as Rebecca Mclofflin says, this is this is neighbor Mclofflin says, this is this is neighbor Mclofflin says, this is this is neighbor love by learning the people we're love by learning the people we're love by learning the people we're talking to. And so that is what we're talking to. And so that is what we're talking to. And so that is what we're engaging with is learning the people engaging with is learning the people engaging with is learning the people we're talking to. And so now I can share we're talking to. And so now I can share we're talking to. And so now I can share more about the incarnation of Christ. more about the incarnation of Christ. more about the incarnation of Christ. How does that answer the question that How does that answer the question that How does that answer the question that you're asking? The gospel, the Bible you're asking? The gospel, the Bible you're asking? The gospel, the Bible answers all these questions, but we've answers all these questions, but we've answers all these questions, but we've just never looked for these answers in just never looked for these answers in just never looked for these answers in the way that our young people are asking the way that our young people are asking the way that our young people are asking them, but it actually does answer all them, but it actually does answer all them, but it actually does answer all them. And so now I can talk about these them. And so now I can talk about these them. And so now I can talk about these things in the way that says this is why things in the way that says this is why things in the way that says this is why um and this is how this answers your um and this is how this answers your um and this is how this answers your question with the same Christian question with the same Christian question with the same Christian doctrine, with the same theology, with doctrine, with the same theology, with doctrine, with the same theology, with the same Bible, but it's just focused the same Bible, but it's just focused the same Bible, but it's just focused more on making a connection to their more on making a connection to their more on making a connection to their real life. There's just too much uh real life. There's just too much uh real life. There's just too much uh studies and reports on how uh studies and reports on how uh studies and reports on how uh classically that a lot of our churches classically that a lot of our churches classically that a lot of our churches focus on your personal spiritual walk focus on your personal spiritual walk focus on your personal spiritual walk with Jesus Christ and it's very vertical with Jesus Christ and it's very vertical with Jesus Christ and it's very vertical me and God and doesn't talk about how to me and God and doesn't talk about how to me and God and doesn't talk about how to engage the world around you with that.

engage the world around you with that. engage the world around you with that. How is your faith supposed to touch How is your faith supposed to touch How is your faith supposed to touch every single part of your life? And it's every single part of your life? And it's every single part of your life? And it's making those connections for our young making those connections for our young making those connections for our young people. M people. M people. M I love too in the book you hit on a a I love too in the book you hit on a a I love too in the book you hit on a a tension point that is I think what a lot tension point that is I think what a lot tension point that is I think what a lot of people of older generations see as of people of older generations see as of people of older generations see as fear um and what they might be afraid of fear um and what they might be afraid of fear um and what they might be afraid of in talking with Gen Z, right? Which is in talking with Gen Z, right? Which is in talking with Gen Z, right? Which is this is a generation that um that places this is a generation that um that places this is a generation that um that places high value on emotion. high value on emotion. high value on emotion. And then it's a generation too where um And then it's a generation too where um And then it's a generation too where um acceptance and approval are big issues. acceptance and approval are big issues. acceptance and approval are big issues. And you have a whole part of the book And you have a whole part of the book And you have a whole part of the book that is laying out like here's some key that is laying out like here's some key that is laying out like here's some key values, some key things that you need to values, some key things that you need to values, some key things that you need to know about Gen Z uh before you talk with know about Gen Z uh before you talk with know about Gen Z uh before you talk with them or you know kind of or and whatnot. them or you know kind of or and whatnot. them or you know kind of or and whatnot. like here's things that the church like here's things that the church like here's things that the church should know about Gen Z and then how the should know about Gen Z and then how the should know about Gen Z and then how the church uh can can keep those in mind church uh can can keep those in mind church uh can can keep those in mind while presenting the gospel or while while presenting the gospel or while while presenting the gospel or while bringing them into the church and bringing them into the church and bringing them into the church and whatnot. And a big one of those is that whatnot. And a big one of those is that whatnot. And a big one of those is that acceptance approval thing. So can you acceptance approval thing. So can you acceptance approval thing. So can you walk us through how Gen Z um thinks walk us through how Gen Z um thinks walk us through how Gen Z um thinks about and sees acceptance approval?

about and sees acceptance approval? about and sees acceptance approval? >> Yeah, I like to see this this generation >> Yeah, I like to see this this generation >> Yeah, I like to see this this generation they're very experiential. So, you know, they're very experiential. So, you know, they're very experiential. So, you know, that's why the old apologetic of just that's why the old apologetic of just that's why the old apologetic of just talking to your head doesn't necessarily talking to your head doesn't necessarily talking to your head doesn't necessarily work. They're like, "But that doesn't work. They're like, "But that doesn't work. They're like, "But that doesn't I've never felt that. I've never I've never felt that. I've never I've never felt that. I've never experienced that before." experienced that before." experienced that before." >> Um, and that goes along with this idea >> Um, and that goes along with this idea >> Um, and that goes along with this idea of acceptance of feeling accepted. of acceptance of feeling accepted. of acceptance of feeling accepted. Right? So, acceptance uh where you go Right? So, acceptance uh where you go Right? So, acceptance uh where you go where you have someone say you never you where you have someone say you never you where you have someone say you never you don't accept me and you're like, "I do don't accept me and you're like, "I do don't accept me and you're like, "I do accept you." And you realize you were accept you." And you realize you were accept you." And you realize you were actually not saying the same thing. It's actually not saying the same thing. It's actually not saying the same thing. It's like I don't know if you ever heard a like I don't know if you ever heard a like I don't know if you ever heard a young person or maybe you said out loud young person or maybe you said out loud young person or maybe you said out loud uh you're not listening to me, right? uh you're not listening to me, right? uh you're not listening to me, right? And and And and And and >> yeah, my son says that to me all the >> yeah, my son says that to me all the >> yeah, my son says that to me all the time time time >> and I bet you can repeat. We're I am >> and I bet you can repeat. We're I am >> and I bet you can repeat. We're I am listening. This is what you said. And in listening. This is what you said. And in listening. This is what you said. And in that moment, we're so hot we can't that moment, we're so hot we can't that moment, we're so hot we can't process this. But what they're really process this. But what they're really process this. But what they're really saying is you're not listening to the saying is you're not listening to the saying is you're not listening to the way that like I want to be listened to. way that like I want to be listened to. way that like I want to be listened to. They actually probably don't mean the They actually probably don't mean the They actually probably don't mean the word listen. They might be saying you're word listen. They might be saying you're word listen. They might be saying you're not feeling the way I want you to feel not feeling the way I want you to feel not feeling the way I want you to feel alongside me. You know, be like I don't alongside me. You know, be like I don't alongside me. You know, be like I don't they're not often saying I want you to they're not often saying I want you to they're not often saying I want you to fix it.

fix it. fix it. um or you're not agreeing with me. Why um or you're not agreeing with me. Why um or you're not agreeing with me. Why aren't you agreeing with me? Why aren't aren't you agreeing with me? Why aren't aren't you agreeing with me? Why aren't you on my side on this? And so all that you on my side on this? And so all that you on my side on this? And so all that kind of fits into that word, are you kind of fits into that word, are you kind of fits into that word, are you listening to me? But we might be listening to me? But we might be listening to me? But we might be thinking, you're just talking about my thinking, you're just talking about my thinking, you're just talking about my ears. So acceptance goes a lot a lot ears. So acceptance goes a lot a lot ears. So acceptance goes a lot a lot like a lot like this. In our cultural like a lot like this. In our cultural like a lot like this. In our cultural context for Jen's ears, is they have context for Jen's ears, is they have context for Jen's ears, is they have grown up and been in a very polarized grown up and been in a very polarized grown up and been in a very polarized world. Uh politics is polarized, but world. Uh politics is polarized, but world. Uh politics is polarized, but then everything has kind of become then everything has kind of become then everything has kind of become politicized also. So then it's not just politicized also. So then it's not just politicized also. So then it's not just politics that are polarized, it's lots politics that are polarized, it's lots politics that are polarized, it's lots of things that are polarized. Yeah. of things that are polarized. Yeah. of things that are polarized. Yeah. >> And so part of acceptance is saying >> And so part of acceptance is saying >> And so part of acceptance is saying acceptance is agreement. If you agree acceptance is agreement. If you agree acceptance is agreement. If you agree with me, you accept me. If you disagree with me, you accept me. If you disagree with me, you accept me. If you disagree with me, you reject me. And that part with me, you reject me. And that part with me, you reject me. And that part they don't have a lot of experiences of they don't have a lot of experiences of they don't have a lot of experiences of watching people, especially public watching people, especially public watching people, especially public figures, but also people in their figures, but also people in their figures, but also people in their personal lives have really big personal lives have really big personal lives have really big disagreements in front of them and then disagreements in front of them and then disagreements in front of them and then go out to dinner afterwards and like go out to dinner afterwards and like go out to dinner afterwards and like hang out and be friends and like do all hang out and be friends and like do all hang out and be friends and like do all the things. And so they don't have a the things. And so they don't have a the things. And so they don't have a context for thinking if you disagree context for thinking if you disagree context for thinking if you disagree with me, you still accept me. But so with me, you still accept me. But so with me, you still accept me. But so acceptance is often agreement and that's acceptance is often agreement and that's acceptance is often agreement and that's really difficult. It makes relationships really difficult. It makes relationships really difficult. It makes relationships really hard to navigate for our young really hard to navigate for our young really hard to navigate for our young people because they were going to have people because they were going to have people because they were going to have to weigh that out and all that. And part to weigh that out and all that. And part to weigh that out and all that. And part of it is acceptance for them also is of it is acceptance for them also is of it is acceptance for them also is never asking me to change. If you accept never asking me to change. If you accept never asking me to change. If you accept me then you'll never want me to be me then you'll never want me to be me then you'll never want me to be different than who I am. And that is different than who I am. And that is different than who I am. And that is actually problematic too because we want actually problematic too because we want actually problematic too because we want to grow and develop and change. And to grow and develop and change. And to grow and develop and change. And what's beautiful about the gospel is what's beautiful about the gospel is what's beautiful about the gospel is that God accepts me today. And then God that God accepts me today. And then God that God accepts me today. And then God changes me into who I'm supposed to be changes me into who I'm supposed to be changes me into who I'm supposed to be with him. And he doesn't accept me more with him. And he doesn't accept me more with him. And he doesn't accept me more today than he did, you know, 30some

today than he did, you know, 30some today than he did, you know, 30some years ago when I started to walk with years ago when I started to walk with years ago when I started to walk with Jesus. He accepts me fully both those Jesus. He accepts me fully both those Jesus. He accepts me fully both those places. And so that idea of like you places. And so that idea of like you places. And so that idea of like you both accept me and you want me to grow both accept me and you want me to grow both accept me and you want me to grow and develop as a person and and change and develop as a person and and change and develop as a person and and change is is can be really hard for their is is can be really hard for their is is can be really hard for their brains to try to figure that out. It brains to try to figure that out. It brains to try to figure that out. It doesn't it doesn't logically kind of doesn't it doesn't logically kind of doesn't it doesn't logically kind of compute. compute. compute. >> Yeah. That >> Yeah. That >> Yeah. That that point you made about a c like a a that point you made about a c like a a that point you made about a c like a a culture of argumentation is what I'm culture of argumentation is what I'm culture of argumentation is what I'm going to call it. going to call it. going to call it. >> Okay. Yeah. I like it. >> Okay. Yeah. I like it. >> Okay. Yeah. I like it. >> Is I think it's not something I had >> Is I think it's not something I had >> Is I think it's not something I had thought a whole lot about, but I think thought a whole lot about, but I think thought a whole lot about, but I think it's so very true. And it's not just in it's so very true. And it's not just in it's so very true. And it's not just in the political sphere. Yes, that is that the political sphere. Yes, that is that the political sphere. Yes, that is that is a that is a key space where it's easy is a that is a key space where it's easy is a that is a key space where it's easy to point at because we it's because we to point at because we it's because we to point at because we it's because we live in a culture now of extremes of live in a culture now of extremes of live in a culture now of extremes of jumping you know if if you don't believe jumping you know if if you don't believe jumping you know if if you don't believe everything that I believe then you're everything that I believe then you're everything that I believe then you're you know not just wrong but you're bad you know not just wrong but you're bad you know not just wrong but you're bad is often a thing and and again and it's is often a thing and and again and it's is often a thing and and again and it's extremes it's extremes but we don't just extremes it's extremes but we don't just extremes it's extremes but we don't just see that in the the political sphere see that in the the political sphere see that in the the political sphere what I was thinking of too is we see it what I was thinking of too is we see it what I was thinking of too is we see it a lot in like sports arguments right now a lot in like sports arguments right now a lot in like sports arguments right now and we have uh and we have uh and we have uh >> like I grew up in a >> like I grew up in a >> like I grew up in a maybe this is getting too weak I don't maybe this is getting too weak I don't maybe this is getting too weak I don't know but I grew up in a time know but I grew up in a time know but I grew up in a time >> where like the main thing that you >> where like the main thing that you >> where like the main thing that you watched for sports was sports center and watched for sports was sports center and watched for sports was sports center and they just kind of talked about you know they just kind of talked about you know they just kind of talked about you know it was just going through the highlights it was just going through the highlights it was just going through the highlights and sometimes you'd watch you know how

and sometimes you'd watch you know how and sometimes you'd watch you know how the analysts kind of talk about whatnot the analysts kind of talk about whatnot the analysts kind of talk about whatnot or they'd have you know light fun banter or they'd have you know light fun banter or they'd have you know light fun banter if they disagreed about something. But if they disagreed about something. But if they disagreed about something. But now the biggest shows in sports culture now the biggest shows in sports culture now the biggest shows in sports culture is like first take, which is just two is like first take, which is just two is like first take, which is just two people people people arguing to the point of yelling at each arguing to the point of yelling at each arguing to the point of yelling at each other. And though but but those are the other. And though but but those are the other. And though but but those are the things that get seen the most. Yes. things that get seen the most. Yes. things that get seen the most. Yes. >> Those are the clips that go viral. So >> Those are the clips that go viral. So >> Those are the clips that go viral. So you have a culture now where in almost you have a culture now where in almost you have a culture now where in almost any arena it's two people arguing and any arena it's two people arguing and any arena it's two people arguing and you don't see that they are friends you don't see that they are friends you don't see that they are friends afterwards. they are, you know, but you afterwards. they are, you know, but you afterwards. they are, you know, but you don't see, you know, the what happens don't see, you know, the what happens don't see, you know, the what happens immediately after the show stops immediately after the show stops immediately after the show stops recording or whatever it is. Um, you recording or whatever it is. Um, you recording or whatever it is. Um, you know, it become because it is a know, it become because it is a know, it become because it is a performance of some kind. But but all performance of some kind. But but all performance of some kind. But but all that we're getting on the intake is that we're getting on the intake is that we're getting on the intake is yelling and argument. Yelling and yelling and argument. Yelling and yelling and argument. Yelling and argument and we see this in all argument and we see this in all argument and we see this in all different spheres of life right now is different spheres of life right now is different spheres of life right now is yelling and arguing with each other. and yelling and arguing with each other. and yelling and arguing with each other. and you go on social media of any kind and you go on social media of any kind and you go on social media of any kind and it's people being, you know, it's people being, you know, it's people being, you know, meanspirited meanspirited meanspirited and yelling, you know, arguing with each and yelling, you know, arguing with each and yelling, you know, arguing with each other there. So, for a Gen Z who was other there. So, for a Gen Z who was other there. So, for a Gen Z who was probably one of the first digital probably one of the first digital probably one of the first digital generations like we were talking about, generations like we were talking about, generations like we were talking about, um, I think that's a really tough space um, I think that's a really tough space um, I think that's a really tough space to have grown up in where everything to have grown up in where everything to have grown up in where everything around them is heated. It's just around them is heated. It's just around them is heated. It's just constantly heated.

constantly heated. constantly heated. So when you then you bring up the church So when you then you bring up the church So when you then you bring up the church into that and the church is not without into that and the church is not without into that and the church is not without its own levels of argumentation and you its own levels of argumentation and you its own levels of argumentation and you see that come up, you know, especially see that come up, you know, especially see that come up, you know, especially in social media or or now with politics in social media or or now with politics in social media or or now with politics and whatnot is you see the church being and whatnot is you see the church being and whatnot is you see the church being a place where people are arguing and a place where people are arguing and a place where people are arguing and yelling, you know, churches against yelling, you know, churches against yelling, you know, churches against churches or denominations against churches or denominations against churches or denominations against whatnot. So I think there's a whatnot. So I think there's a whatnot. So I think there's a probably a push back to that of saying I probably a push back to that of saying I probably a push back to that of saying I don't like everything around me is don't like everything around me is don't like everything around me is yelling and heated. I don't want to be a yelling and heated. I don't want to be a yelling and heated. I don't want to be a part of any of that. Um and I can easily part of any of that. Um and I can easily part of any of that. Um and I can easily see that affecting the church too. I see that affecting the church too. I see that affecting the church too. I don't want any of that. don't want any of that. don't want any of that. >> Yeah. Well, and what you're I mean it's >> Yeah. Well, and what you're I mean it's >> Yeah. Well, and what you're I mean it's it's also been discussed and proven that it's also been discussed and proven that it's also been discussed and proven that the uh back in studying Facebook that the uh back in studying Facebook that the uh back in studying Facebook that the the posts that draw in anger are the the the posts that draw in anger are the the the posts that draw in anger are the ones that go viral. ones that go viral. ones that go viral. >> Yeah. And so if you want to be viral, >> Yeah. And so if you want to be viral, >> Yeah. And so if you want to be viral, you know, you have to be is you have to you know, you have to be is you have to you know, you have to be is you have to be angry. And that so that is then a be angry. And that so that is then a be angry. And that so that is then a cultural norm in this kind of space, you cultural norm in this kind of space, you cultural norm in this kind of space, you know, and I was talking with a group of know, and I was talking with a group of know, and I was talking with a group of high school kids. I had them over at my high school kids. I had them over at my high school kids. I had them over at my house for a Bible study last year.

house for a Bible study last year. house for a Bible study last year. >> And I and we were walking through James >> And I and we were walking through James >> And I and we were walking through James and I said, "Do you ever feel like and I said, "Do you ever feel like and I said, "Do you ever feel like people just get angry so fast these people just get angry so fast these people just get angry so fast these days?" And I'm telling you, before that days?" And I'm telling you, before that days?" And I'm telling you, before that sentence was finished, like before all sentence was finished, like before all sentence was finished, like before all the words were still coming, I had like the words were still coming, I had like the words were still coming, I had like six, you know, high school girls at my six, you know, high school girls at my six, you know, high school girls at my table and they're like, "Yes." like table and they're like, "Yes." like table and they're like, "Yes." like everyone gets so mad so fast. So we everyone gets so mad so fast. So we everyone gets so mad so fast. So we started talking about just different started talking about just different started talking about just different ideas of how does the church stand out ideas of how does the church stand out ideas of how does the church stand out in an environment that is so angry and in an environment that is so angry and in an environment that is so angry and right there is a place for righteous right there is a place for righteous right there is a place for righteous anger right we're not supposed to sin in anger right we're not supposed to sin in anger right we're not supposed to sin in our anger we're not supposed to be our anger we're not supposed to be our anger we're not supposed to be bitter uh forgiveness is a part of bitter uh forgiveness is a part of bitter uh forgiveness is a part of things and so it is it's a difficult things and so it is it's a difficult things and so it is it's a difficult place for them to walk through and that place for them to walk through and that place for them to walk through and that environment has really told our young environment has really told our young environment has really told our young people that you are not allowed to make people that you are not allowed to make people that you are not allowed to make a mistake like if you make a mistake we a mistake like if you make a mistake we a mistake like if you make a mistake we the world will come after you and be and the world will come after you and be and the world will come after you and be and they will be angry at you. they will be angry at you. they will be angry at you. >> It's It's an interesting juiposition as >> It's It's an interesting juiposition as >> It's It's an interesting juiposition as I think about it because anger I don't I think about it because anger I don't I think about it because anger I don't think on its face is winsome to Christ. think on its face is winsome to Christ. think on its face is winsome to Christ. Uh like uh Uh like uh Uh like uh >> I don't know maybe we should be yelling >> I don't know maybe we should be yelling >> I don't know maybe we should be yelling more if that's like the most number one more if that's like the most number one more if that's like the most number one sports shows. I was going to say, sports shows. I was going to say, sports shows. I was going to say, however, there are churches, you know, however, there are churches, you know, however, there are churches, you know, and pastors who make, you know, make a and pastors who make, you know, make a and pastors who make, you know, make a name for themselves with that sort of name for themselves with that sort of name for themselves with that sort of proposition of of anger and and whatnot.

proposition of of anger and and whatnot. proposition of of anger and and whatnot. And, you know, I think those churches And, you know, I think those churches And, you know, I think those churches probably do tend to grow to a certain probably do tend to grow to a certain probably do tend to grow to a certain population and demographic. So, um, population and demographic. So, um, population and demographic. So, um, there's a lot more thoughts I have that there's a lot more thoughts I have that there's a lot more thoughts I have that I do for probably for a whole different I do for probably for a whole different I do for probably for a whole different conversation, conversation, conversation, >> a whole different conversation. But >> a whole different conversation. But >> a whole different conversation. But anyway, but I just so I find that I I I anyway, but I just so I find that I I I anyway, but I just so I find that I I I just find that part really interesting just find that part really interesting just find that part really interesting as we go back to this idea of the church as we go back to this idea of the church as we go back to this idea of the church and the relationship with Gen Z helping and the relationship with Gen Z helping and the relationship with Gen Z helping to to understand that acceptance means to to understand that acceptance means to to understand that acceptance means something different. Um something different. Um something different. Um at at Saddleback, Pastor Rick when he at at Saddleback, Pastor Rick when he at at Saddleback, Pastor Rick when he was here would always say like was here would always say like was here would always say like acceptance is not the same thing as acceptance is not the same thing as acceptance is not the same thing as approval. is you can accept a person and approval. is you can accept a person and approval. is you can accept a person and you should accept a person you know for you should accept a person you know for you should accept a person you know for who they are but it doesn't mean you who they are but it doesn't mean you who they are but it doesn't mean you have to approve of the behavior. It have to approve of the behavior. It have to approve of the behavior. It doesn't mean that you have to say yeah doesn't mean that you have to say yeah doesn't mean that you have to say yeah like you know you know I I accept that like you know you know I I accept that like you know you know I I accept that you do this you know I don't have to you do this you know I don't have to you do this you know I don't have to like it but it doesn't mean I don't love like it but it doesn't mean I don't love like it but it doesn't mean I don't love you. And that seems to be what's been you. And that seems to be what's been you. And that seems to be what's been lost in translation with Gen Z is is lost in translation with Gen Z is is lost in translation with Gen Z is is this that is this idea that I can still this that is this idea that I can still this that is this idea that I can still love you even though I I don't like that love you even though I I don't like that love you even though I I don't like that you do this or I don't think that's the you do this or I don't think that's the you do this or I don't think that's the right way. Uh I don't think that's right right way. Uh I don't think that's right right way. Uh I don't think that's right in the sense of good or bad or right or in the sense of good or bad or right or in the sense of good or bad or right or wrong because I follow this code of wrong because I follow this code of wrong because I follow this code of conduct the Bible and you know and that conduct the Bible and you know and that conduct the Bible and you know and that doesn't follow that. Um, so how how do doesn't follow that. Um, so how how do doesn't follow that. Um, so how how do you how can you uh encourage the church you how can you uh encourage the church you how can you uh encourage the church or give advice on how we can speak a or give advice on how we can speak a or give advice on how we can speak a little bit differently to people to

little bit differently to people to little bit differently to people to Jenzers Jenzers Jenzers uh to bridge that gap to help them to uh to bridge that gap to help them to uh to bridge that gap to help them to feel loved to feel you know known and feel loved to feel you know known and feel loved to feel you know known and valued appreciated all these things that valued appreciated all these things that valued appreciated all these things that are really core to a Jenzer but they may are really core to a Jenzer but they may are really core to a Jenzer but they may not say that they feel that from the not say that they feel that from the not say that they feel that from the church if you know if it's not full church if you know if it's not full church if you know if it's not full acceptance of you know their beliefs. acceptance of you know their beliefs. acceptance of you know their beliefs. Yeah. I mean that sentence right there, Yeah. I mean that sentence right there, Yeah. I mean that sentence right there, the you can accept one someone and not the you can accept one someone and not the you can accept one someone and not approve them. That would not fly with approve them. That would not fly with approve them. That would not fly with Gen Z at all. Like at all if you don't Gen Z at all. Like at all if you don't Gen Z at all. Like at all if you don't approve, then you reject. If you reject, approve, then you reject. If you reject, approve, then you reject. If you reject, you don't accept. Right? There's a you don't accept. Right? There's a you don't accept. Right? There's a there's a very easy line of logic for there's a very easy line of logic for there's a very easy line of logic for them to follow them to follow them to follow >> in their in their cultural uh culture to >> in their in their cultural uh culture to >> in their in their cultural uh culture to find that. Uh so I like to make sure find that. Uh so I like to make sure find that. Uh so I like to make sure that we're always defining things in that we're always defining things in that we're always defining things in very concrete terms. So I don't say, very concrete terms. So I don't say, very concrete terms. So I don't say, "Hey, welcome. This is a safe space and "Hey, welcome. This is a safe space and "Hey, welcome. This is a safe space and I'm a safe person." because that's a I'm a safe person." because that's a I'm a safe person." because that's a that's a very broad term. And so and I that's a very broad term. And so and I that's a very broad term. And so and I have I know what I'm talking about, but have I know what I'm talking about, but have I know what I'm talking about, but if I'm not talking about what they're if I'm not talking about what they're if I'm not talking about what they're talking about and I break that whatever talking about and I break that whatever talking about and I break that whatever they thought was safe, like some people they thought was safe, like some people they thought was safe, like some people feel safe when you call on them because feel safe when you call on them because feel safe when you call on them because they have permission to talk and some they have permission to talk and some they have permission to talk and some people feel uh unsafe when you call on people feel uh unsafe when you call on people feel uh unsafe when you call on them because you put them on the spot.

them because you put them on the spot. them because you put them on the spot. So if I break with whatever their their So if I break with whatever their their So if I break with whatever their their idea is, not only have I proven myself idea is, not only have I proven myself idea is, not only have I proven myself unsafe, I've proven myself unsafe, I've proven myself unsafe, I've proven myself untrustworthy. So when we talk about untrustworthy. So when we talk about untrustworthy. So when we talk about these things and say, "Hey, when I say these things and say, "Hey, when I say these things and say, "Hey, when I say safe, here's what I mean." And you start safe, here's what I mean." And you start safe, here's what I mean." And you start to use some pretty concrete words about to use some pretty concrete words about to use some pretty concrete words about it. Same thing with acceptance, we can it. Same thing with acceptance, we can it. Same thing with acceptance, we can do those things. So I probably wouldn't do those things. So I probably wouldn't do those things. So I probably wouldn't just say, "Hey, Jason, I accept you." I just say, "Hey, Jason, I accept you." I just say, "Hey, Jason, I accept you." I might say, "Jason, might say, "Jason, might say, "Jason, >> I love your guts, man. And I am so glad >> I love your guts, man. And I am so glad >> I love your guts, man. And I am so glad that we can have conversations where we that we can have conversations where we that we can have conversations where we may agree with on the same things. We may agree with on the same things. We may agree with on the same things. We not even believe the same things, but not even believe the same things, but not even believe the same things, but man, I'm your ride and die. I have your man, I'm your ride and die. I have your man, I'm your ride and die. I have your back. like I I am your home. I will back. like I I am your home. I will back. like I I am your home. I will fight for you uh until I am My knuckles fight for you uh until I am My knuckles fight for you uh until I am My knuckles are bleeding. Well, that was a bad are bleeding. Well, that was a bad are bleeding. Well, that was a bad example. That was a very violent picture example. That was a very violent picture example. That was a very violent picture I just painted. I just painted. I just painted. >> I would say I will fight for you, you >> I would say I will fight for you, you >> I would say I will fight for you, you know, until it takes it all out of me. know, until it takes it all out of me. know, until it takes it all out of me. >> Yeah. He expends everything I have. I'm >> Yeah. He expends everything I have. I'm >> Yeah. He expends everything I have. I'm bleeding for you. Yes. bleeding for you. Yes. bleeding for you. Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So that they get this piece of like So that they get this piece of like So that they get this piece of like relationally that that that that they relationally that that that that they relationally that that that that they are with me and even though we can are with me and even though we can are with me and even though we can disagree on some things, but we actually disagree on some things, but we actually disagree on some things, but we actually have to back that up with our actions.

have to back that up with our actions. have to back that up with our actions. So it it it's not as easy as saying So it it it's not as easy as saying So it it it's not as easy as saying something, it's actually demonstrating something, it's actually demonstrating something, it's actually demonstrating that over and over and over after that. that over and over and over after that. that over and over and over after that. So conflict, again, conflict's really So conflict, again, conflict's really So conflict, again, conflict's really like they've had bad experiences with like they've had bad experiences with like they've had bad experiences with conflict. The conflict ends conflict. The conflict ends conflict. The conflict ends relationships. And so for a young person relationships. And so for a young person relationships. And so for a young person to have a conflict with me and then I to have a conflict with me and then I to have a conflict with me and then I keep showing up and encouraging and keep showing up and encouraging and keep showing up and encouraging and loving and still being there, it becomes loving and still being there, it becomes loving and still being there, it becomes less scary because they go, "Oh, so if I less scary because they go, "Oh, so if I less scary because they go, "Oh, so if I disagree with you, that doesn't end our disagree with you, that doesn't end our disagree with you, that doesn't end our relationship." Like you're still here. relationship." Like you're still here. relationship." Like you're still here. >> But it it this is going to take a long >> But it it this is going to take a long >> But it it this is going to take a long time. Again, in this book, we talk about time. Again, in this book, we talk about time. Again, in this book, we talk about their trust is is not easily given away. their trust is is not easily given away. their trust is is not easily given away. And so we just have to be patient with And so we just have to be patient with And so we just have to be patient with that process with them and then show that process with them and then show that process with them and then show keep showing up in places that show and keep showing up in places that show and keep showing up in places that show and demonstrate what our words are saying. demonstrate what our words are saying. demonstrate what our words are saying. It's almost like thinking of Gen Z as a It's almost like thinking of Gen Z as a It's almost like thinking of Gen Z as a cat that you just got. Like a cat cat that you just got. Like a cat cat that you just got. Like a cat doesn't just give you trust and doesn't just give you trust and doesn't just give you trust and affection necessarily right away. It's affection necessarily right away. It's affection necessarily right away. It's earned. You have to earn a cat's trust. earned. You have to earn a cat's trust. earned. You have to earn a cat's trust. Whereas a dog is you um I think this was Whereas a dog is you um I think this was Whereas a dog is you um I think this was like a meet the parents type of of quote like a meet the parents type of of quote like a meet the parents type of of quote where he was like you know uh I think where he was like you know uh I think where he was like you know uh I think Jack was comparing a um Jack was comparing a um Jack was comparing a um saying how how cats are more like or saying how how cats are more like or saying how how cats are more like or take more work and they show more about take more work and they show more about take more work and they show more about your character if you've gained a cat's your character if you've gained a cat's your character if you've gained a cat's trust as opposed to a dog. Um no I say trust as opposed to a dog. Um no I say trust as opposed to a dog. Um no I say that as a dog person. Uh that as a dog person. Uh that as a dog person. Uh >> I know not all the dog people. You could >> I know not all the dog people. You could >> I know not all the dog people. You could have the have the have the >> No, no, no. I am the dog person. I am >> No, no, no. I am the dog person. I am >> No, no, no. I am the dog person. I am the dog person. But but I think that's I the dog person. But but I think that's I the dog person. But but I think that's I love how you talk about that being able love how you talk about that being able love how you talk about that being able to show up and kind of have that

to show up and kind of have that to show up and kind of have that ministry o of presence and showing ministry o of presence and showing ministry o of presence and showing through your through experience through your through experience through your through experience that you are somebody who can be trusted that you are somebody who can be trusted that you are somebody who can be trusted even, you know, and and that you don't even, you know, and and that you don't even, you know, and and that you don't have to fully agree on everything, but have to fully agree on everything, but have to fully agree on everything, but I'm still here for you. I still love I'm still here for you. I still love I'm still here for you. I still love you. like like you're still welcome over you. like like you're still welcome over you. like like you're still welcome over like like we can still do things like like we can still do things like like we can still do things together and we can have a really deep together and we can have a really deep together and we can have a really deep relationship and we can even talk about relationship and we can even talk about relationship and we can even talk about things that we disagree about and I'm things that we disagree about and I'm things that we disagree about and I'm not going to yell at you. I'm not going not going to yell at you. I'm not going not going to yell at you. I'm not going to belittle you. I'm not, you know, or to belittle you. I'm not, you know, or to belittle you. I'm not, you know, or whatnot. And I hope that you would have whatnot. And I hope that you would have whatnot. And I hope that you would have the same respect to me, but I understand the same respect to me, but I understand the same respect to me, but I understand like this may be a hotter tension point like this may be a hotter tension point like this may be a hotter tension point for you and you may get upset, but you for you and you may get upset, but you for you and you may get upset, but you know what? I'm somebody who can take it know what? I'm somebody who can take it know what? I'm somebody who can take it and I'm not going to run away. Um, you and I'm not going to run away. Um, you and I'm not going to run away. Um, you know, I'm somebody who can have a a know, I'm somebody who can have a a know, I'm somebody who can have a a respectful, healthy conversation, respectful, healthy conversation, respectful, healthy conversation, healthy relationship that's not just I'm healthy relationship that's not just I'm healthy relationship that's not just I'm going to cut you off if we disagree on going to cut you off if we disagree on going to cut you off if we disagree on something. So being somebody who is um something. So being somebody who is um something. So being somebody who is um available, available, available, not afraid not afraid not afraid and not somebody, you know, and not and not somebody, you know, and not and not somebody, you know, and not somebody who um will step away if things somebody who um will step away if things somebody who um will step away if things get, you know, get tricky or sticky or get, you know, get tricky or sticky or get, you know, get tricky or sticky or hard. Uh I think that probably goes a hard. Uh I think that probably goes a hard. Uh I think that probably goes a long way and it says a lot uh to a long way and it says a lot uh to a long way and it says a lot uh to a genzer who you are relating to.

genzer who you are relating to. genzer who you are relating to. >> Yeah. And even just I've learned to live >> Yeah. And even just I've learned to live >> Yeah. And even just I've learned to live some of my conflicts out loud, even in some of my conflicts out loud, even in some of my conflicts out loud, even in front of them. Sometimes as I'm front of them. Sometimes as I'm front of them. Sometimes as I'm processing through it, one of the gifts processing through it, one of the gifts processing through it, one of the gifts of getting to be a Young Life leader is of getting to be a Young Life leader is of getting to be a Young Life leader is we're an ecumenical organization, right? we're an ecumenical organization, right? we're an ecumenical organization, right? So on my own Young Life team, you know, So on my own Young Life team, you know, So on my own Young Life team, you know, there's four or five different church there's four or five different church there's four or five different church traditions that we all kind of come from traditions that we all kind of come from traditions that we all kind of come from and we lead at and sometimes we do point and we lead at and sometimes we do point and we lead at and sometimes we do point out some of the stuff that we go, well, out some of the stuff that we go, well, out some of the stuff that we go, well, hey, we actually disagree on this thing hey, we actually disagree on this thing hey, we actually disagree on this thing and our both our traditions really and our both our traditions really and our both our traditions really disagree on this thing. But disagree on this thing. But disagree on this thing. But >> but we can joke together and love each >> but we can joke together and love each >> but we can joke together and love each other and serve with one another, you other and serve with one another, you other and serve with one another, you know, because we do agree on on these know, because we do agree on on these know, because we do agree on on these core issues. But I allow sometimes some core issues. But I allow sometimes some core issues. But I allow sometimes some of our young people in process with me of our young people in process with me of our young people in process with me is I say, "Hey, yeah, I really disagree is I say, "Hey, yeah, I really disagree is I say, "Hey, yeah, I really disagree with this person and here's where I'm with this person and here's where I'm with this person and here's where I'm processing this right now and here's how processing this right now and here's how processing this right now and here's how I'm praying and I'm I'm planning on on I'm praying and I'm I'm planning on on I'm praying and I'm I'm planning on on having this next conversation because I having this next conversation because I having this next conversation because I love them." Now, I don't give them all love them." Now, I don't give them all love them." Now, I don't give them all the nitty like let's keep it age the nitty like let's keep it age the nitty like let's keep it age appropriate, right? and let's treat appropriate, right? and let's treat appropriate, right? and let's treat everyone with respect in it. But because everyone with respect in it. But because everyone with respect in it. But because they don't they don't know what that they don't they don't know what that they don't they don't know what that process looks like. process looks like. process looks like. >> And I've done and I'm doing this with my >> And I've done and I'm doing this with my >> And I've done and I'm doing this with my own small children now is they have to own small children now is they have to own small children now is they have to hear what that process is because this hear what that process is because this hear what that process is because this happens in our head, heart, and prayer happens in our head, heart, and prayer happens in our head, heart, and prayer life, but not often in front of people.

life, but not often in front of people. life, but not often in front of people. And I found that giving our young people And I found that giving our young people And I found that giving our young people really concrete examples and concrete really concrete examples and concrete really concrete examples and concrete steps of how do you move through some of steps of how do you move through some of steps of how do you move through some of these things relationally, how do you these things relationally, how do you these things relationally, how do you build trust, how do you decide to trust build trust, how do you decide to trust build trust, how do you decide to trust someone, how do you work through someone, how do you work through someone, how do you work through forgiveness that we have to say these forgiveness that we have to say these forgiveness that we have to say these things out loud and process uh because things out loud and process uh because things out loud and process uh because they're very abstract, very personal, they're very abstract, very personal, they're very abstract, very personal, very private processes that they've not very private processes that they've not very private processes that they've not been able to watch. been able to watch. been able to watch. >> Yeah. I think and and this is something >> Yeah. I think and and this is something >> Yeah. I think and and this is something I've learned from not from First Take I've learned from not from First Take I've learned from not from First Take but from other sports uh related media but from other sports uh related media but from other sports uh related media is being able to say that's interesting. is being able to say that's interesting. is being able to say that's interesting. I see this a different way. Um is it it I see this a different way. Um is it it I see this a different way. Um is it it can go a long way. It's not saying oh can go a long way. It's not saying oh can go a long way. It's not saying oh that's totally wrong and let me tell you that's totally wrong and let me tell you that's totally wrong and let me tell you why that's totally wrong. It's saying oh why that's totally wrong. It's saying oh why that's totally wrong. It's saying oh that's interesting that you saw it that that's interesting that you saw it that that's interesting that you saw it that way. let me tell you, you know, how how way. let me tell you, you know, how how way. let me tell you, you know, how how I saw it and then we can either, you I saw it and then we can either, you I saw it and then we can either, you know, uh, shift perspectives or we can know, uh, shift perspectives or we can know, uh, shift perspectives or we can agree to disagree and that can go a long agree to disagree and that can go a long agree to disagree and that can go a long way, but you can still maintain a way, but you can still maintain a way, but you can still maintain a healthy relationship with somebody. But healthy relationship with somebody. But healthy relationship with somebody. But when you're talking about things like when you're talking about things like when you're talking about things like like doctrine or whatever, I think like doctrine or whatever, I think like doctrine or whatever, I think you're I I think that encouragement that you're I I think that encouragement that you're I I think that encouragement that hey, it can take time and that's okay.

hey, it can take time and that's okay. hey, it can take time and that's okay. like they don't have to get it right like they don't have to get it right like they don't have to get it right away for it to and then you know it's away for it to and then you know it's away for it to and then you know it's like either you get it right away or you like either you get it right away or you like either you get it right away or you change your your habit or whatever it is change your your habit or whatever it is change your your habit or whatever it is right away or else this is going nowhere right away or else this is going nowhere right away or else this is going nowhere and and you're a failed generation. No, and and you're a failed generation. No, and and you're a failed generation. No, it's like this it takes time. You know, it's like this it takes time. You know, it's like this it takes time. You know, God is planting, you know, is growing God is planting, you know, is growing God is planting, you know, is growing oak trees like there's it takes time. oak trees like there's it takes time. oak trees like there's it takes time. And you know what? The idea of planting And you know what? The idea of planting And you know what? The idea of planting seeds, I think, is not something that we seeds, I think, is not something that we seeds, I think, is not something that we should bulk at either. It might be your should bulk at either. It might be your should bulk at either. It might be your job to plant seeds in somebody's life job to plant seeds in somebody's life job to plant seeds in somebody's life that maybe you don't end up getting to that maybe you don't end up getting to that maybe you don't end up getting to water, but somebody else does. Um, or water, but somebody else does. Um, or water, but somebody else does. Um, or you get to be the water to the seeds you get to be the water to the seeds you get to be the water to the seeds that somebody else has planted, but you that somebody else has planted, but you that somebody else has planted, but you don't get to see the plant actually grow don't get to see the plant actually grow don't get to see the plant actually grow that another person gets to see the that another person gets to see the that another person gets to see the growth happen. Um, so I think being, growth happen. Um, so I think being, growth happen. Um, so I think being, you know, not being in such a rush all you know, not being in such a rush all you know, not being in such a rush all the time to see somebody's, you know, the time to see somebody's, you know, the time to see somebody's, you know, life change, uh, can go a long way. We life change, uh, can go a long way. We life change, uh, can go a long way. We can be excited, you know, and and we can be excited, you know, and and we can be excited, you know, and and we can, you know, it's not that we can't can, you know, it's not that we can't can, you know, it's not that we can't approach gospel sharing with, you know, approach gospel sharing with, you know, approach gospel sharing with, you know, an urgency, but we can still, you know, an urgency, but we can still, you know, an urgency, but we can still, you know, take the time to do the work. The work take the time to do the work. The work take the time to do the work. The work can be hard and it can be long and can be hard and it can be long and can be hard and it can be long and that's okay.

that's okay. that's okay. >> Oh, it should be. Right. >> Oh, it should be. Right. >> Oh, it should be. Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, part of the joy that of getting >> I mean, part of the joy that of getting >> I mean, part of the joy that of getting to work with the next generation for any to work with the next generation for any to work with the next generation for any of us is that we recognize that all of us is that we recognize that all of us is that we recognize that all people are created in the image of God, people are created in the image of God, people are created in the image of God, which means every generation will which means every generation will which means every generation will reflect different aspects of the image reflect different aspects of the image reflect different aspects of the image of God. Also, also distortions, but also of God. Also, also distortions, but also of God. Also, also distortions, but also like they bring we each generation like they bring we each generation like they bring we each generation brings the kingdom of heaven on earth in brings the kingdom of heaven on earth in brings the kingdom of heaven on earth in some kind of way. some kind of way. some kind of way. >> Yeah. And we got to pay attention to the >> Yeah. And we got to pay attention to the >> Yeah. And we got to pay attention to the unique way Gen Z will reflect the image unique way Gen Z will reflect the image unique way Gen Z will reflect the image of God on earth and then figure out how of God on earth and then figure out how of God on earth and then figure out how to draw that out so that they get to to draw that out so that they get to to draw that out so that they get to become the fullest expression of who become the fullest expression of who become the fullest expression of who they're supposed to be in Christ and not they're supposed to be in Christ and not they're supposed to be in Christ and not make them try to look like Gen Xers or make them try to look like Gen Xers or make them try to look like Gen Xers or millennials or baby boomers. Every millennials or baby boomers. Every millennials or baby boomers. Every generation brought a gift to the church. generation brought a gift to the church. generation brought a gift to the church. And so we get to help identify that. And And so we get to help identify that. And And so we get to help identify that. And that takes time to pay attention, that takes time to pay attention, that takes time to pay attention, listen, pray, pull yourself and your own listen, pray, pull yourself and your own listen, pray, pull yourself and your own eyes out of it and really say, "How how eyes out of it and really say, "How how eyes out of it and really say, "How how does this generation bring the kingdom does this generation bring the kingdom does this generation bring the kingdom of heaven here on earth?" of heaven here on earth?" of heaven here on earth?" >> Oh, I love that so much because often >> Oh, I love that so much because often >> Oh, I love that so much because often what makes a generation unique is what makes a generation unique is what makes a generation unique is something that like rubs up against in a something that like rubs up against in a something that like rubs up against in a hard way previous generations, right? It hard way previous generations, right? It hard way previous generations, right? It can be hard for Gen Xers or boomers to can be hard for Gen Xers or boomers to can be hard for Gen Xers or boomers to understand, you know, why do you focus understand, you know, why do you focus understand, you know, why do you focus so much on your emotions or why is so, so much on your emotions or why is so, so much on your emotions or why is so, you know, whatnot. That's not something you know, whatnot. That's not something you know, whatnot. That's not something we ever did, you know, and so it like it we ever did, you know, and so it like it we ever did, you know, and so it like it rubs course against old generations. But rubs course against old generations. But rubs course against old generations. But just imagine two generations from now, just imagine two generations from now, just imagine two generations from now, you have this Gen Z generation that is you have this Gen Z generation that is you have this Gen Z generation that is so focused on emotional intelligence

so focused on emotional intelligence so focused on emotional intelligence that can then, you know, teach the newer that can then, you know, teach the newer that can then, you know, teach the newer generations to come like how to think generations to come like how to think generations to come like how to think more emotional, you know, in a in a more emotional, you know, in a in a more emotional, you know, in a in a healthy way. And um I I love that idea healthy way. And um I I love that idea healthy way. And um I I love that idea of thinking instead of, you know, in of thinking instead of, you know, in of thinking instead of, you know, in instead of what's frustrating about a instead of what's frustrating about a instead of what's frustrating about a generation, I see it as a gift that is generation, I see it as a gift that is generation, I see it as a gift that is honing itself that that God is stirring honing itself that that God is stirring honing itself that that God is stirring something in a generation and he's going something in a generation and he's going something in a generation and he's going to continue to hone it to, you know, to to continue to hone it to, you know, to to continue to hone it to, you know, to shape it in in a way that will be a shape it in in a way that will be a shape it in in a way that will be a healthy way to teach later generations. healthy way to teach later generations. healthy way to teach later generations. I love that idea. I love that idea. I love that idea. >> Oh, thanks. It's it's so fun cuz then >> Oh, thanks. It's it's so fun cuz then >> Oh, thanks. It's it's so fun cuz then you are anticipatory, you're excited, you are anticipatory, you're excited, you are anticipatory, you're excited, you're expectant you're expectant you're expectant >> of the gifts people that young the gifts >> of the gifts people that young the gifts >> of the gifts people that young the gifts that young people bring to us. So, for that young people bring to us. So, for that young people bring to us. So, for our listeners right now, what's our listeners right now, what's our listeners right now, what's something that they can be doing uh something that they can be doing uh something that they can be doing uh right now besides going and picking up right now besides going and picking up right now besides going and picking up your book that releases today? Um, which your book that releases today? Um, which your book that releases today? Um, which we'll I have the link in the show notes, we'll I have the link in the show notes, we'll I have the link in the show notes, but what's something that that that our but what's something that that that our but what's something that that that our listeners can be doing right now as they listeners can be doing right now as they listeners can be doing right now as they think about Gen Z, they think about the think about Gen Z, they think about the think about Gen Z, they think about the church and their relationship with these church and their relationship with these church and their relationship with these next generations. What's something that next generations. What's something that next generations. What's something that a person, millennial, Gen X, whatever, a person, millennial, Gen X, whatever, a person, millennial, Gen X, whatever, can can start to do to better can can start to do to better can can start to do to better understand, better care for, equip the understand, better care for, equip the understand, better care for, equip the later generations.

later generations. later generations. >> Okay, this is when I get real weepy, by >> Okay, this is when I get real weepy, by >> Okay, this is when I get real weepy, by the way, so I'm just gave you a heads up the way, so I'm just gave you a heads up the way, so I'm just gave you a heads up if you hear my voice. All right, if you hear my voice. All right, if you hear my voice. All right, >> I think the first thing is is Gen Z >> I think the first thing is is Gen Z >> I think the first thing is is Gen Z generally doesn't feel seen or heard by generally doesn't feel seen or heard by generally doesn't feel seen or heard by the adult generations in their life. So the adult generations in their life. So the adult generations in their life. So even if you don't you're not around even if you don't you're not around even if you don't you're not around young people but you run you go to the young people but you run you go to the young people but you run you go to the grocery store or the Starbucks or grocery store or the Starbucks or grocery store or the Starbucks or whatever coffee shop is around there's whatever coffee shop is around there's whatever coffee shop is around there's probably a young person working there probably a young person working there probably a young person working there you I think just you leaning over and you I think just you leaning over and you I think just you leaning over and giving a compliment to them in a in a giving a compliment to them in a in a giving a compliment to them in a in a heartfelt way uh like it changes the heartfelt way uh like it changes the heartfelt way uh like it changes the dynamic. So I I was at a fast food dynamic. So I I was at a fast food dynamic. So I I was at a fast food restaurant restaurant restaurant >> and I leaned over the counter real fast >> and I leaned over the counter real fast >> and I leaned over the counter real fast and I said I just want to let you know I and I said I just want to let you know I and I said I just want to let you know I think your generation is incredibly think your generation is incredibly think your generation is incredibly brave and doesn't get enough credit. M brave and doesn't get enough credit. M brave and doesn't get enough credit. M >> that's all I said. I went and I sat down >> that's all I said. I went and I sat down >> that's all I said. I went and I sat down and I was working on something at the and I was working on something at the and I was working on something at the table. This employee came and sat down table. This employee came and sat down table. This employee came and sat down at my table next to me and said, "What at my table next to me and said, "What at my table next to me and said, "What did you mean? No one's ever talked to me did you mean? No one's ever talked to me did you mean? No one's ever talked to me like that." And so little things like like that." And so little things like like that." And so little things like that. So I do that at the grocery. I do that. So I do that at the grocery. I do that. So I do that at the grocery. I do it places where I just not just them, it places where I just not just them, it places where I just not just them, not them as a person, but just saying, not them as a person, but just saying, not them as a person, but just saying, "Hey, I think your generation is "Hey, I think your generation is "Hey, I think your generation is spectacular. I think they're so brave. I spectacular. I think they're so brave. I spectacular. I think they're so brave. I do not know how you have navigated these do not know how you have navigated these do not know how you have navigated these things the way that you have." just things the way that you have." just things the way that you have." just start talking about this generation in a start talking about this generation in a start talking about this generation in a way that draws them out and into a way that draws them out and into a way that draws them out and into a relationship. Too many times when you relationship. Too many times when you relationship. Too many times when you ask a young person or any Jenzer, "What ask a young person or any Jenzer, "What ask a young person or any Jenzer, "What do you hear about yourself from older do you hear about yourself from older do you hear about yourself from older adults and the media?" Yeah.

adults and the media?" Yeah. adults and the media?" Yeah. >> They will list a bunch of negative >> They will list a bunch of negative >> They will list a bunch of negative words, probably some that we may have words, probably some that we may have words, probably some that we may have said, right? Weak, snowflake, said, right? Weak, snowflake, said, right? Weak, snowflake, overeotional, overeotional, overeotional, um self-centered. um self-centered. um self-centered. >> That's what they're hearing. So I like >> That's what they're hearing. So I like >> That's what they're hearing. So I like to say if you could do anything change to say if you could do anything change to say if you could do anything change the message they are hearing from the the message they are hearing from the the message they are hearing from the people who are supposed to steward and people who are supposed to steward and people who are supposed to steward and disciple them. disciple them. disciple them. >> Speak vision over them and draw them in. >> Speak vision over them and draw them in. >> Speak vision over them and draw them in. So that's number one. Number two, if you So that's number one. Number two, if you So that's number one. Number two, if you do have a Gen Zer in your life do have a Gen Zer in your life do have a Gen Zer in your life >> uh or someone at your church or a family >> uh or someone at your church or a family >> uh or someone at your church or a family member or a student, whoever member or a student, whoever member or a student, whoever either you shoot them a text if you like either you shoot them a text if you like either you shoot them a text if you like right now or you can do that right now right now or you can do that right now right now or you can do that right now or when you see them next or when you see them next or when you see them next >> you say there's a couple questions I >> you say there's a couple questions I >> you say there's a couple questions I like to use. one as I see what do you like to use. one as I see what do you like to use. one as I see what do you wish people my age understood about your wish people my age understood about your wish people my age understood about your generation generation generation >> and then actually be quiet and listen to >> and then actually be quiet and listen to >> and then actually be quiet and listen to it it it >> they share so much they share so much >> they share so much they share so much >> they share so much they share so much about what they feel like we are missing about what they feel like we are missing about what they feel like we are missing in them in them in them >> the second and this is the most >> the second and this is the most >> the second and this is the most uncomfortable this is going to be the uncomfortable this is going to be the uncomfortable this is going to be the most uncomfortable question okay that most uncomfortable question okay that most uncomfortable question okay that I'm going to share I'm going to share I'm going to share >> is did I ask the young people in my life >> is did I ask the young people in my life >> is did I ask the young people in my life on a scale of 1 to 10 how's your mental on a scale of 1 to 10 how's your mental on a scale of 1 to 10 how's your mental health health health >> now you might think that as a different >> now you might think that as a different >> now you might think that as a different generation that we're talking about generation that we're talking about generation that we're talking about heads how does your head feel this is heads how does your head feel this is heads how does your head feel this is the generational equivalent of someone the generational equivalent of someone the generational equivalent of someone walking up and saying, "Hey, Jason, walking up and saying, "Hey, Jason, walking up and saying, "Hey, Jason, how's your heart?"

how's your heart?" how's your heart?" >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like they're not asking about your >> Like they're not asking about your >> Like they're not asking about your actual physical heart. They're actually actual physical heart. They're actually actual physical heart. They're actually it's a very holistic question about how it's a very holistic question about how it's a very holistic question about how you are as a human. you are as a human. you are as a human. >> Our Gen Zers understand that question of >> Our Gen Zers understand that question of >> Our Gen Zers understand that question of how's your mental health as a very how's your mental health as a very how's your mental health as a very holistic human question. It's not just holistic human question. It's not just holistic human question. It's not just >> how are you? Yeah. Yeah. It's like >> how are you? Yeah. Yeah. It's like >> how are you? Yeah. Yeah. It's like >> it's a big Yes. Yeah. Because when they >> it's a big Yes. Yeah. Because when they >> it's a big Yes. Yeah. Because when they get the answer and you say, "Hey, tell get the answer and you say, "Hey, tell get the answer and you say, "Hey, tell me about that number." They will tell me about that number." They will tell me about that number." They will tell you about their experiences. is they'll you about their experiences. is they'll you about their experiences. is they'll tell how their body feels. They'll tell tell how their body feels. They'll tell tell how their body feels. They'll tell you things they're worried about. They you things they're worried about. They you things they're worried about. They they'll tell you uh things they're they'll tell you uh things they're they'll tell you uh things they're celebrating. All of that will come out celebrating. All of that will come out celebrating. All of that will come out of it and you'll realize it wasn't a of it and you'll realize it wasn't a of it and you'll realize it wasn't a question about how they're mentally question about how they're mentally question about how they're mentally navigating the day, but how they are navigating the day, but how they are navigating the day, but how they are navigating the day as a person. Now, I navigating the day as a person. Now, I navigating the day as a person. Now, I get if you ask this question out of the get if you ask this question out of the get if you ask this question out of the blue that Jen's in your life's going to blue that Jen's in your life's going to blue that Jen's in your life's going to be like, "Who did you talk to? What be like, "Who did you talk to? What be like, "Who did you talk to? What happened? Where did you get this?" happened? Where did you get this?" happened? Where did you get this?" >> But if you just even just saying, "I >> But if you just even just saying, "I >> But if you just even just saying, "I listen to this podcast and you I wanted listen to this podcast and you I wanted listen to this podcast and you I wanted to try it. I figured if this was a to try it. I figured if this was a to try it. I figured if this was a better way to communicate, I wanted to better way to communicate, I wanted to better way to communicate, I wanted to at least give it a shot. at least give it a shot. at least give it a shot. >> Yeah. At the same time, it's it's not as >> Yeah. At the same time, it's it's not as >> Yeah. At the same time, it's it's not as taboo as you may think it is because taboo as you may think it is because taboo as you may think it is because this is something that Jenzers and this is something that Jenzers and this is something that Jenzers and stuff, they tend to talk a bit more stuff, they tend to talk a bit more stuff, they tend to talk a bit more openly about than, you know, in previous openly about than, you know, in previous openly about than, you know, in previous generations.

generations. generations. >> Oh, I was part of a global study through >> Oh, I was part of a global study through >> Oh, I was part of a global study through Young Life called the Relate Project. Young Life called the Relate Project. Young Life called the Relate Project. And globally, And globally, And globally, >> globally, the number one thing Gen Z >> globally, the number one thing Gen Z >> globally, the number one thing Gen Z wants to talk about is mental health wants to talk about is mental health wants to talk about is mental health across like across many like different across like across many like different across like across many like different parts of the world. parts of the world. parts of the world. >> Yeah. That's the number one thing they >> Yeah. That's the number one thing they >> Yeah. That's the number one thing they want to talk about and we're not saying want to talk about and we're not saying want to talk about and we're not saying that. So even you don't have to be a that. So even you don't have to be a that. So even you don't have to be a mental health expert to just say on a mental health expert to just say on a mental health expert to just say on a scale of 1 to 10, how's your mental scale of 1 to 10, how's your mental scale of 1 to 10, how's your mental health today? health today? health today? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because they're dying to talk about it. >> Because they're dying to talk about it. >> Because they're dying to talk about it. >> Yeah. Keep in mind listeners that God >> Yeah. Keep in mind listeners that God >> Yeah. Keep in mind listeners that God has so much love for these generations has so much love for these generations has so much love for these generations like you may feel frustrated for by like you may feel frustrated for by like you may feel frustrated for by whatever reason or you may feel like whatever reason or you may feel like whatever reason or you may feel like like you've thought of those words that like you've thought of those words that like you've thought of those words that you were talking about earlier uh Tia you were talking about earlier uh Tia you were talking about earlier uh Tia that you know maybe you've said oh that that you know maybe you've said oh that that you know maybe you've said oh that they're you know um snowflakes or weak they're you know um snowflakes or weak they're you know um snowflakes or weak or whatever it is but keep in mind that or whatever it is but keep in mind that or whatever it is but keep in mind that God has so much love and affection and God has so much love and affection and God has so much love and affection and care for these uh these people in in care for these uh these people in in care for these uh these people in in these generations. And God is excited these generations. And God is excited these generations. And God is excited about what he's going to do in and about what he's going to do in and about what he's going to do in and through them. And that's something that through them. And that's something that through them. And that's something that we can hop on board with and and say, we can hop on board with and and say, we can hop on board with and and say, you know, even if it's asking God you know, even if it's asking God you know, even if it's asking God beforehand, say, "Hey, God, what's beforehand, say, "Hey, God, what's beforehand, say, "Hey, God, what's something that you would want me to or something that you would want me to or something that you would want me to or what's something that you can point out what's something that you can point out what's something that you can point out to me about this Jenzier in my life that to me about this Jenzier in my life that to me about this Jenzier in my life that I can relate with them about or I can I can relate with them about or I can I can relate with them about or I can invite them into, you know, as a as a invite them into, you know, as a as a invite them into, you know, as a as a way to engage them in the life of the way to engage them in the life of the way to engage them in the life of the church in a different way that they may, church in a different way that they may, church in a different way that they may, you know, want to be involved in.

you know, want to be involved in. you know, want to be involved in. There's so much I like it's we don't There's so much I like it's we don't There's so much I like it's we don't have to enter into it with fear about a have to enter into it with fear about a have to enter into it with fear about a different generation to instead with different generation to instead with different generation to instead with hope and excitement about what's to come hope and excitement about what's to come hope and excitement about what's to come and you know this is going to be the and you know this is going to be the and you know this is going to be the church you know church you know church you know and and and God is doing a work in it and so being a God is doing a work in it and so being a God is doing a work in it and so being a part of that I think it can be a really part of that I think it can be a really part of that I think it can be a really like special thing for your relationship like special thing for your relationship like special thing for your relationship with the Gen ears in your life. Again, with the Gen ears in your life. Again, with the Gen ears in your life. Again, whether it's in your home, at your whether it's in your home, at your whether it's in your home, at your church, at your school, or whatever, church, at your school, or whatever, church, at your school, or whatever, there's such a great opportunity uh to there's such a great opportunity uh to there's such a great opportunity uh to get to be on board with them, to guide get to be on board with them, to guide get to be on board with them, to guide them, but to also learn from them, also them, but to also learn from them, also them, but to also learn from them, also to take part in the way that they do to take part in the way that they do to take part in the way that they do things. And um so I I I say don't shy things. And um so I I I say don't shy things. And um so I I I say don't shy away from that, but instead lean into it away from that, but instead lean into it away from that, but instead lean into it and and just see what God's going to do and and just see what God's going to do and and just see what God's going to do because he's going to do some really because he's going to do some really because he's going to do some really incredible things. incredible things. incredible things. >> Yeah. This is a a generation that >> Yeah. This is a a generation that >> Yeah. This is a a generation that while they were coming of age and while they were coming of age and while they were coming of age and becoming adults, they had social media.

becoming adults, they had social media. becoming adults, they had social media. They had a pandemic drop in the middle They had a pandemic drop in the middle They had a pandemic drop in the middle of their development and they've been of their development and they've been of their development and they've been dealing with school shootings. dealing with school shootings. dealing with school shootings. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I do not know how they are standing, but >> I do not know how they are standing, but >> I do not know how they are standing, but there is a secret sauce to them that there is a secret sauce to them that there is a secret sauce to them that they are still here and I know that they they are still here and I know that they they are still here and I know that they are tired also. They've been navigating are tired also. They've been navigating are tired also. They've been navigating a lot of things. And so pulling up a a a lot of things. And so pulling up a a a lot of things. And so pulling up a a stool at your kitchen counter for some stool at your kitchen counter for some stool at your kitchen counter for some snacks or watching the game with you, snacks or watching the game with you, snacks or watching the game with you, goodness, even coming over to just help goodness, even coming over to just help goodness, even coming over to just help you do some lawn work together. you do some lawn work together. you do some lawn work together. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They they love every minute that we get >> They they love every minute that we get >> They they love every minute that we get to spend with them and listen to them to spend with them and listen to them to spend with them and listen to them and uh see how deep the waters flow and uh see how deep the waters flow and uh see how deep the waters flow under this group of young people. under this group of young people. under this group of young people. >> They are incredible. >> They are incredible. >> They are incredible. Well, if that doesn't instill excitement Well, if that doesn't instill excitement Well, if that doesn't instill excitement about Gen Z, I don't know what what what about Gen Z, I don't know what what what about Gen Z, I don't know what what what will. So, thank you so much for helping will. So, thank you so much for helping will. So, thank you so much for helping to, you know, uh, unpack a little bit to, you know, uh, unpack a little bit to, you know, uh, unpack a little bit more of what is happening with Gen Z in more of what is happening with Gen Z in more of what is happening with Gen Z in the church, for instilling just a lot of the church, for instilling just a lot of the church, for instilling just a lot of excitement and hope for this generation excitement and hope for this generation excitement and hope for this generation and for and for and for for previous generations for for really for previous generations for for really for previous generations for for really giving a challenge of like, guys, this giving a challenge of like, guys, this giving a challenge of like, guys, this is something that you can step into and is something that you can step into and is something that you can step into and it'll be good. So thank you for the work it'll be good. So thank you for the work it'll be good. So thank you for the work that you're doing in this. Tanita, would that you're doing in this. Tanita, would that you're doing in this. Tanita, would you mind closing us in prayer you mind closing us in prayer you mind closing us in prayer specifically specifically specifically praying for the listener? I I I don't praying for the listener? I I I don't praying for the listener? I I I don't know how many Gen Zers listen to this.

know how many Gen Zers listen to this. know how many Gen Zers listen to this. So So I mean if they are great then we So So I mean if they are great then we So So I mean if they are great then we can pray for them but also for for can pray for them but also for for can pray for them but also for for people who fall into the other people who fall into the other people who fall into the other generational categories as we learn to generational categories as we learn to generational categories as we learn to uh love on and care for this next uh love on and care for this next uh love on and care for this next generation better. generation better. generation better. >> Yeah. I'm going to read a prayer from >> Yeah. I'm going to read a prayer from >> Yeah. I'm going to read a prayer from this uh book, the prayers for the next this uh book, the prayers for the next this uh book, the prayers for the next generation. generation. generation. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And it's a prayer of the pre preparation >> And it's a prayer of the pre preparation >> And it's a prayer of the pre preparation of our own hearts. Can I pray that for of our own hearts. Can I pray that for of our own hearts. Can I pray that for us? us? us? >> Yes, please. >> Yes, please. >> Yes, please. >> Lord, >> Lord, >> Lord, give us eyes to see the next generation. give us eyes to see the next generation. give us eyes to see the next generation. A heart that cherishes them, a mind that A heart that cherishes them, a mind that A heart that cherishes them, a mind that seeks to understand them, and hands to seeks to understand them, and hands to seeks to understand them, and hands to support them in forwarding your kingdom. support them in forwarding your kingdom. support them in forwarding your kingdom. Protect the next generation. They are Protect the next generation. They are Protect the next generation. They are warriors. warriors. warriors. Give them insight to lead themselves, Give them insight to lead themselves, Give them insight to lead themselves, their peers, the their elders, and those their peers, the their elders, and those their peers, the their elders, and those younger them them in refreshing ways younger them them in refreshing ways younger them them in refreshing ways that reflect your spirit throughout the that reflect your spirit throughout the that reflect your spirit throughout the world. Even today as we pray, these world. Even today as we pray, these world. Even today as we pray, these young people will lead us and are young people will lead us and are young people will lead us and are leading us. Prompt our hearts to love leading us. Prompt our hearts to love leading us. Prompt our hearts to love them as you do, to support them, to hear them as you do, to support them, to hear them as you do, to support them, to hear them, and to serve them as you do. Cause them, and to serve them as you do. Cause them, and to serve them as you do. Cause our eyes to see them aresh, and cause our eyes to see them aresh, and cause our eyes to see them aresh, and cause our words to overflow with our words to overflow with our words to overflow with encouragement. We desire to support encouragement. We desire to support encouragement. We desire to support their growth. Let your kingdom come in their growth. Let your kingdom come in their growth. Let your kingdom come in and through them. And let the next and through them. And let the next and through them. And let the next generation see your face smiling down on generation see your face smiling down on generation see your face smiling down on them, proud of who they are and how they them, proud of who they are and how they them, proud of who they are and how they reflect your kingdom on earth. Amen.

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