E438 Rediscovering the Power of Presence with Darren Whitehead

[Music] [Music] This is a Saddleback Church podcast. This is a Saddleback Church podcast. This is a Saddleback Church podcast. >> I think we'd probably all agree that >> I think we'd probably all agree that >> I think we'd probably all agree that digital distraction is at an all-time digital distraction is at an all-time digital distraction is at an all-time high. News from around the world is at high. News from around the world is at high. News from around the world is at our fingertips at a moment's notice. We our fingertips at a moment's notice. We our fingertips at a moment's notice. We get real-time updates on well, get real-time updates on well, get real-time updates on well, everything. We can play any sort of game everything. We can play any sort of game everything. We can play any sort of game imaginable anywhere in the world. And we imaginable anywhere in the world. And we imaginable anywhere in the world. And we can post our own thoughts and musings can post our own thoughts and musings can post our own thoughts and musings for anybody to see. for anybody to see. for anybody to see. Smartphones are truly an incredible Smartphones are truly an incredible Smartphones are truly an incredible innovation, innovation, innovation, but they come with a cost. Instead of but they come with a cost. Instead of but they come with a cost. Instead of engaging with the world right around us, engaging with the world right around us, engaging with the world right around us, we engage in a a digital world filled we engage in a a digital world filled we engage in a a digital world filled with avatars and algorithms. Instead of with avatars and algorithms. Instead of with avatars and algorithms. Instead of looking up to God or out to the people looking up to God or out to the people looking up to God or out to the people directly in front of us, we look down directly in front of us, we look down directly in front of us, we look down into the screen of a metal rectangle.

into the screen of a metal rectangle. into the screen of a metal rectangle. This past weekend at Saddleback, This past weekend at Saddleback, This past weekend at Saddleback, Pastor Darren Whitehead spoke on his Pastor Darren Whitehead spoke on his Pastor Darren Whitehead spoke on his book, The Digital Fast. If you haven't book, The Digital Fast. If you haven't book, The Digital Fast. If you haven't watched his message from this weekend, watched his message from this weekend, watched his message from this weekend, I'll post a link to it in the show I'll post a link to it in the show I'll post a link to it in the show notes. I encourage you to check that notes. I encourage you to check that notes. I encourage you to check that out. Darren was kind enough to join us out. Darren was kind enough to join us out. Darren was kind enough to join us on this podcast to on this podcast to on this podcast to to follow up on his weekend message at to follow up on his weekend message at to follow up on his weekend message at Saddleback. In this conversation, we Saddleback. In this conversation, we Saddleback. In this conversation, we talk about how to fill the gaps in our talk about how to fill the gaps in our talk about how to fill the gaps in our time if we're not on our phones. We we time if we're not on our phones. We we time if we're not on our phones. We we talk about spiritual practices and talk about spiritual practices and talk about spiritual practices and rhythms. We we talk about why we don't rhythms. We we talk about why we don't rhythms. We we talk about why we don't need to be scared to read the Bible. We need to be scared to read the Bible. We need to be scared to read the Bible. We talk about the difference between talk about the difference between talk about the difference between Australians and Americans. That was a Australians and Americans. That was a Australians and Americans. That was a fun part of the conversation and we talk fun part of the conversation and we talk fun part of the conversation and we talk about the calling of a generation to about the calling of a generation to about the calling of a generation to re-engage in the spiritual and we talk re-engage in the spiritual and we talk re-engage in the spiritual and we talk about much more. My name is Jason about much more. My name is Jason about much more. My name is Jason Wheeland and this is doable disciplehip. Wheeland and this is doable disciplehip. Wheeland and this is doable disciplehip. Now my conversation with Darren Now my conversation with Darren Now my conversation with Darren Whitehead.

[Music] [Music] All right, Darren Whitehead, thank you All right, Darren Whitehead, thank you All right, Darren Whitehead, thank you so much for joining us today. You were so much for joining us today. You were so much for joining us today. You were just with us at Saddleback. So excited just with us at Saddleback. So excited just with us at Saddleback. So excited to get to follow up on uh what you to get to follow up on uh what you to get to follow up on uh what you talked about this weekend with the talked about this weekend with the talked about this weekend with the digital fast, but then also tie it into digital fast, but then also tie it into digital fast, but then also tie it into some other things that I'm excited to some other things that I'm excited to some other things that I'm excited to talk with you about. So, thanks for talk with you about. So, thanks for talk with you about. So, thanks for being here. being here. being here. >> Thank you so much for having me. I >> Thank you so much for having me. I >> Thank you so much for having me. I thoroughly loved being with you guys at thoroughly loved being with you guys at thoroughly loved being with you guys at Saddleback. It was a complete joy and Saddleback. It was a complete joy and Saddleback. It was a complete joy and glad to be with you today. So, I wanted glad to be with you today. So, I wanted glad to be with you today. So, I wanted to take the opportunity to bridge a to take the opportunity to bridge a to take the opportunity to bridge a little bit of what you were talking little bit of what you were talking little bit of what you were talking about with the digital fast and and tie about with the digital fast and and tie about with the digital fast and and tie it together with an earlier book that it together with an earlier book that it together with an earlier book that you wrote with Chris Tomlin called you wrote with Chris Tomlin called you wrote with Chris Tomlin called Holy Roar. Sorry, I was uh scrolling Holy Roar. Sorry, I was uh scrolling Holy Roar. Sorry, I was uh scrolling through my notes here. Holy Roar. So, through my notes here. Holy Roar. So, through my notes here. Holy Roar. So, can you talk about, you know, a genuine can you talk about, you know, a genuine can you talk about, you know, a genuine culture of worship, which is what that culture of worship, which is what that culture of worship, which is what that book was about? It is about these these book was about? It is about these these book was about? It is about these these uh words of praise that we find in the uh words of praise that we find in the uh words of praise that we find in the Bible. Can you talk about how a genuine Bible. Can you talk about how a genuine Bible. Can you talk about how a genuine culture of worship acts as almost a a culture of worship acts as almost a a culture of worship acts as almost a a natural remedy I think to the problems natural remedy I think to the problems natural remedy I think to the problems that are created through this a digital that are created through this a digital that are created through this a digital culture that we often find ourselves culture that we often find ourselves culture that we often find ourselves enwrapped in.

enwrapped in. enwrapped in. Well, Jason, I love that question and I Well, Jason, I love that question and I Well, Jason, I love that question and I have not spent much time pondering how have not spent much time pondering how have not spent much time pondering how uh the book Holy Raw and the book uh the book Holy Raw and the book uh the book Holy Raw and the book Digital Fast uh relate to one another, Digital Fast uh relate to one another, Digital Fast uh relate to one another, but uh there is there is something about but uh there is there is something about but uh there is there is something about worshiping God, entering God's presence worshiping God, entering God's presence worshiping God, entering God's presence that is not in the past, it is not in that is not in the past, it is not in that is not in the past, it is not in the future, it is in the present. the future, it is in the present. the future, it is in the present. >> We experience God's presence in the >> We experience God's presence in the >> We experience God's presence in the present. present. present. Uh, worship is an act of entering God's Uh, worship is an act of entering God's Uh, worship is an act of entering God's presence in the in the present. What presence in the in the present. What presence in the in the present. What digital devices have stolen from us more digital devices have stolen from us more digital devices have stolen from us more than anything is our ability to be than anything is our ability to be than anything is our ability to be present. present. present. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Digital devices have have removed all of >> Digital devices have have removed all of >> Digital devices have have removed all of the discretionary gaps from our day. You the discretionary gaps from our day. You the discretionary gaps from our day. You think about uh when you go to the think about uh when you go to the think about uh when you go to the grocery store and you have to wait in grocery store and you have to wait in grocery store and you have to wait in line. line. line. Instead of looking around, instead of Instead of looking around, instead of Instead of looking around, instead of talking to the person next to you, talking to the person next to you, talking to the person next to you, instead of pondering instead of pondering instead of pondering uh a person that the Holy Spirit may lay uh a person that the Holy Spirit may lay uh a person that the Holy Spirit may lay upon your heart, generally you do one of upon your heart, generally you do one of upon your heart, generally you do one of two things. You either doom scroll on two things. You either doom scroll on two things. You either doom scroll on your phone looking at cat videos, your phone looking at cat videos, your phone looking at cat videos, >> or if you're like me and you have an >> or if you're like me and you have an >> or if you're like me and you have an addiction to productivity, you enter addiction to productivity, you enter addiction to productivity, you enter your inbox and you just start trying to your inbox and you just start trying to your inbox and you just start trying to get things done. in the 43 seconds that get things done. in the 43 seconds that get things done. in the 43 seconds that you're waiting, you're like, I can you're waiting, you're like, I can you're waiting, you're like, I can respond to two emails. I can clean out respond to two emails. I can clean out respond to two emails. I can clean out some things. And so what we end up doing

some things. And so what we end up doing some things. And so what we end up doing is we end up cluttering the present. And is we end up cluttering the present. And is we end up cluttering the present. And we lose the ability to be turning our we lose the ability to be turning our we lose the ability to be turning our attention toward heaven and saying, attention toward heaven and saying, attention toward heaven and saying, "Spirit of God, what are you wanting to "Spirit of God, what are you wanting to "Spirit of God, what are you wanting to impress on me? What am I supposed to impress on me? What am I supposed to impress on me? What am I supposed to notice? What am I supposed to feel in notice? What am I supposed to feel in notice? What am I supposed to feel in the gaps between the tasks of my life?" the gaps between the tasks of my life?" the gaps between the tasks of my life?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And we've all but chased that away. And >> And we've all but chased that away. And >> And we've all but chased that away. And we do it when we pull up to the lights we do it when we pull up to the lights we do it when we pull up to the lights while we're driving. It's like uh we've while we're driving. It's like uh we've while we're driving. It's like uh we've got a red stop. We look for the shortest got a red stop. We look for the shortest got a red stop. We look for the shortest number of cars in the lane that is ahead number of cars in the lane that is ahead number of cars in the lane that is ahead of us. We pull into that one and then we of us. We pull into that one and then we of us. We pull into that one and then we tend to reach for our phone and do tend to reach for our phone and do tend to reach for our phone and do something. something. something. >> We distract ourselves. Um, one of the >> We distract ourselves. Um, one of the >> We distract ourselves. Um, one of the primary things that we intuitively do primary things that we intuitively do primary things that we intuitively do with these devices with these devices with these devices is that we numb ourselves from is that we numb ourselves from is that we numb ourselves from unpleasant feelings. unpleasant feelings. unpleasant feelings. >> So if you feel sad, if you feel regret, >> So if you feel sad, if you feel regret, >> So if you feel sad, if you feel regret, if you feel shame, if you feel grief, if you feel shame, if you feel grief, if you feel shame, if you feel grief, they are very unpleasant feelings. And they are very unpleasant feelings. And they are very unpleasant feelings. And and what we tend to do is we grab our and what we tend to do is we grab our and what we tend to do is we grab our phone and we distract ourselves with phone and we distract ourselves with phone and we distract ourselves with some sort of visual junk food.

some sort of visual junk food. some sort of visual junk food. >> Yeah. that will chase away this >> Yeah. that will chase away this >> Yeah. that will chase away this unpleasant feeling. And the act of unpleasant feeling. And the act of unpleasant feeling. And the act of worship, the act of being aware of the worship, the act of being aware of the worship, the act of being aware of the presence of God, it all takes place in presence of God, it all takes place in presence of God, it all takes place in the present. It is what you sense the the present. It is what you sense the the present. It is what you sense the spirit of God saying to you now. And one spirit of God saying to you now. And one spirit of God saying to you now. And one of the unintended consequences of these of the unintended consequences of these of the unintended consequences of these devices is that they have suffocated out devices is that they have suffocated out devices is that they have suffocated out all of the gaps, all of the discretion all of the gaps, all of the discretion all of the gaps, all of the discretion discretionary moments in our day. H yeah discretionary moments in our day. H yeah discretionary moments in our day. H yeah it's interesting to think about our it's interesting to think about our it's interesting to think about our experience now and juxtaposed to I what experience now and juxtaposed to I what experience now and juxtaposed to I what I imagine life would be like hundreds I imagine life would be like hundreds I imagine life would be like hundreds thousands of years ago it would where thousands of years ago it would where thousands of years ago it would where there was time now time was often spent there was time now time was often spent there was time now time was often spent working and toiling in a different way working and toiling in a different way working and toiling in a different way but in the gaps of time in the time you but in the gaps of time in the time you but in the gaps of time in the time you know there was an allowance of rest and know there was an allowance of rest and know there was an allowance of rest and allowance of other you know being able allowance of other you know being able allowance of other you know being able to focus on other people or focus on God to focus on other people or focus on God to focus on other people or focus on God or whatever it was at the time. Whereas or whatever it was at the time. Whereas or whatever it was at the time. Whereas now, as you said, it's so easy for us to now, as you said, it's so easy for us to now, as you said, it's so easy for us to just fill the times in with with the just fill the times in with with the just fill the times in with with the doom scrolling, the cat videos, you doom scrolling, the cat videos, you doom scrolling, the cat videos, you know, the social media posts, you know, know, the social media posts, you know, know, the social media posts, you know, the games, the Candy Crush, whatever it the games, the Candy Crush, whatever it the games, the Candy Crush, whatever it is. And so we turn our attention, you is. And so we turn our attention, you is. And so we turn our attention, you know, downward instead of upward and know, downward instead of upward and know, downward instead of upward and outward instead of being outward instead of being outward instead of being >> That's right. Yeah. And and brain >> That's right. Yeah. And and brain >> That's right. Yeah. And and brain science has found that when we are science has found that when we are science has found that when we are bored, it stimulates a completely

bored, it stimulates a completely bored, it stimulates a completely different part of our brain. different part of our brain. different part of our brain. >> It stimulates creativity and it >> It stimulates creativity and it >> It stimulates creativity and it stimulates problem solving. stimulates problem solving. stimulates problem solving. >> Yeah. And so when we have this um >> Yeah. And so when we have this um >> Yeah. And so when we have this um inability to tolerate boredom even for a inability to tolerate boredom even for a inability to tolerate boredom even for a second second second then then our brains never start firing then then our brains never start firing then then our brains never start firing that part that is the most creative and that part that is the most creative and that part that is the most creative and is the most uh has the strongest ability is the most uh has the strongest ability is the most uh has the strongest ability to solve problems. to solve problems. to solve problems. >> Yeah. I was ti so as I was I was I was >> Yeah. I was ti so as I was I was I was >> Yeah. I was ti so as I was I was I was thinking through our conversation and so thinking through our conversation and so thinking through our conversation and so I was tying in the idea of worship into I was tying in the idea of worship into I was tying in the idea of worship into this because if you have a natural this because if you have a natural this because if you have a natural inclination I would imagine to hum a inclination I would imagine to hum a inclination I would imagine to hum a worship song or to sing something or worship song or to sing something or worship song or to sing something or even if you were to sit and just think even if you were to sit and just think even if you were to sit and just think about the lyrics of what you're saying about the lyrics of what you're saying about the lyrics of what you're saying which usually we don't do. Usually we which usually we don't do. Usually we which usually we don't do. Usually we just get into the melody, you know, we just get into the melody, you know, we just get into the melody, you know, we know the tune, we sing and we kind of know the tune, we sing and we kind of know the tune, we sing and we kind of let the words kind of just flow out of let the words kind of just flow out of let the words kind of just flow out of our mouths without actually sitting in our mouths without actually sitting in our mouths without actually sitting in one and saying whom what does, you know, one and saying whom what does, you know, one and saying whom what does, you know, uh, this song actually say theologically uh, this song actually say theologically uh, this song actually say theologically about God and my relationship with him about God and my relationship with him about God and my relationship with him or whatever it is. Uh but if we if we or whatever it is. Uh but if we if we or whatever it is. Uh but if we if we did re-engage, I think a genuine spirit did re-engage, I think a genuine spirit did re-engage, I think a genuine spirit of worship, if we engaged with praise of worship, if we engaged with praise of worship, if we engaged with praise and gratitude and lament and all of and gratitude and lament and all of and gratitude and lament and all of these different types even of of worship these different types even of of worship these different types even of of worship that it it it kind of takes away this that it it it kind of takes away this that it it it kind of takes away this time that we need to be on our phone. I time that we need to be on our phone. I time that we need to be on our phone. I I was thinking of it this way almost a I was thinking of it this way almost a I was thinking of it this way almost a little bit. I found that if I get into a little bit. I found that if I get into a little bit. I found that if I get into a good book, like right now I'm I'm

good book, like right now I'm I'm good book, like right now I'm I'm reading a biography on George reading a biography on George reading a biography on George Washington. So, I want to pick that up Washington. So, I want to pick that up Washington. So, I want to pick that up every night before I go to bed because I every night before I go to bed because I every night before I go to bed because I want to read the next chapter. I just want to read the next chapter. I just want to read the next chapter. I just finished the Revolutionary War. finished the Revolutionary War. finished the Revolutionary War. Thankfully, I'm now getting into Thankfully, I'm now getting into Thankfully, I'm now getting into Statesmen George Washington. And I want Statesmen George Washington. And I want Statesmen George Washington. And I want to get into that next chapter. And when to get into that next chapter. And when to get into that next chapter. And when I do that, I'm filling that time rather I do that, I'm filling that time rather I do that, I'm filling that time rather than just picking up my phone and than just picking up my phone and than just picking up my phone and saying, "Huh, I did I I wonder what saying, "Huh, I did I I wonder what saying, "Huh, I did I I wonder what happened with all the sports scores or happened with all the sports scores or happened with all the sports scores or whatever it was today." And I think the whatever it was today." And I think the whatever it was today." And I think the same can be true of our engagement with same can be true of our engagement with same can be true of our engagement with worship. If we if we fill our cars, for worship. If we if we fill our cars, for worship. If we if we fill our cars, for example, with worship and we're playing example, with worship and we're playing example, with worship and we're playing these songs, just as an example, we're these songs, just as an example, we're these songs, just as an example, we're less likely, I would imagine, at the red less likely, I would imagine, at the red less likely, I would imagine, at the red light to stop and try to pull up, you light to stop and try to pull up, you light to stop and try to pull up, you know, see what's happening on Facebook know, see what's happening on Facebook know, see what's happening on Facebook because I'm already seeing I've already because I'm already seeing I've already because I'm already seeing I've already got this worship music playing. Um, so I got this worship music playing. Um, so I got this worship music playing. Um, so I was just thinking of it a little bit of was just thinking of it a little bit of was just thinking of it a little bit of that way as a way to fill in the that way as a way to fill in the that way as a way to fill in the crevices with something other than crevices with something other than crevices with something other than everything that the phone has to offer everything that the phone has to offer everything that the phone has to offer in that way. I like that. Uh, you know in that way. I like that. Uh, you know in that way. I like that. Uh, you know what's so difficult is that they are, what's so difficult is that they are, what's so difficult is that they are, you know, our feed. It's interesting you know, our feed. It's interesting you know, our feed. It's interesting that our social media is called our that our social media is called our that our social media is called our feed.

feed. feed. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Because it's, you know, it's what we >> Because it's, you know, it's what we >> Because it's, you know, it's what we consume. consume. consume. >> But our feed, as I'm sure you're aware, >> But our feed, as I'm sure you're aware, >> But our feed, as I'm sure you're aware, >> has very complex algorithms >> has very complex algorithms >> has very complex algorithms >> that have customized >> that have customized >> that have customized your feed to the content that you find your feed to the content that you find your feed to the content that you find the most alluring. Mhm. the most alluring. Mhm. the most alluring. Mhm. >> the most engaging and are most likely to >> the most engaging and are most likely to >> the most engaging and are most likely to immerse yourself in. So, think of immerse yourself in. So, think of immerse yourself in. So, think of yourself as a fish and there's a hook yourself as a fish and there's a hook yourself as a fish and there's a hook and the bait on that hook is the thing and the bait on that hook is the thing and the bait on that hook is the thing that attracts you the most. that attracts you the most. that attracts you the most. >> Exact. >> Exact. >> Exact. >> Your exact favorite food. You know, the >> Your exact favorite food. You know, the >> Your exact favorite food. You know, the technology that is used uh on the on the technology that is used uh on the on the technology that is used uh on the on the refresh on social media like the just refresh on social media like the just refresh on social media like the just pull down refresh is the same technology pull down refresh is the same technology pull down refresh is the same technology that is used for slot machines in that is used for slot machines in that is used for slot machines in casinos. casinos. casinos. >> And the the name of that technology is >> And the the name of that technology is >> And the the name of that technology is varo variable ratio schedule. And the varo variable ratio schedule. And the varo variable ratio schedule. And the idea is it is so alluring not because idea is it is so alluring not because idea is it is so alluring not because it's predictable but because it's it's predictable but because it's it's predictable but because it's unpredictable.

unpredictable. unpredictable. >> And like you that same feeling at a slot >> And like you that same feeling at a slot >> And like you that same feeling at a slot machine is like the very next pull down machine is like the very next pull down machine is like the very next pull down of this lever is going to be the one of this lever is going to be the one of this lever is going to be the one that changes my life that changes my life that changes my life >> and I can't walk away cuz the next one >> and I can't walk away cuz the next one >> and I can't walk away cuz the next one would have been it. It's the same it's would have been it. It's the same it's would have been it. It's the same it's the same idea. It's the same technology. the same idea. It's the same technology. the same idea. It's the same technology. It's the same spirit behind when you're It's the same spirit behind when you're It's the same spirit behind when you're doom scrolling, when you're scrolling doom scrolling, when you're scrolling doom scrolling, when you're scrolling away on endless amounts of content that away on endless amounts of content that away on endless amounts of content that is customized towards you, you don't is customized towards you, you don't is customized towards you, you don't know what's coming up next. And it could know what's coming up next. And it could know what's coming up next. And it could be the most interesting thing that you be the most interesting thing that you be the most interesting thing that you would find yourself. But like junk food. would find yourself. But like junk food. would find yourself. But like junk food. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> If you consume too much junk food, you >> If you consume too much junk food, you >> If you consume too much junk food, you feel sick and you feel ashamed of feel sick and you feel ashamed of feel sick and you feel ashamed of yourself. yourself. yourself. >> Yeah. And and what so many people are >> Yeah. And and what so many people are >> Yeah. And and what so many people are looking for is to turn to their phones looking for is to turn to their phones looking for is to turn to their phones to soothe them, but instead they feel to soothe them, but instead they feel to soothe them, but instead they feel shame as a result of it. shame as a result of it. shame as a result of it. >> I wanted to ask you about spiritual >> I wanted to ask you about spiritual >> I wanted to ask you about spiritual rhythms. It's something that we've rhythms. It's something that we've rhythms. It's something that we've talked a lot about on this podcast in talked a lot about on this podcast in talked a lot about on this podcast in the past and but I wanted to ask you the past and but I wanted to ask you the past and but I wanted to ask you specifically as you were thinking specifically as you were thinking specifically as you were thinking through this idea of the digital fast through this idea of the digital fast through this idea of the digital fast and as you as you worked through it not and as you as you worked through it not and as you as you worked through it not just yourself but at your church what just yourself but at your church what just yourself but at your church what sort of spiritual rhythms did you uh sort of spiritual rhythms did you uh sort of spiritual rhythms did you uh start to build into your life did you start to build into your life did you start to build into your life did you see were or I should say how did you see see were or I should say how did you see see were or I should say how did you see them be uh them be uh them be uh effectively used uh in a digital fast.

effectively used uh in a digital fast. effectively used uh in a digital fast. >> Yeah. Well, one of the things that >> Yeah. Well, one of the things that >> Yeah. Well, one of the things that people don't always intuitively people don't always intuitively people don't always intuitively understand about fasting and even about understand about fasting and even about understand about fasting and even about digital fasting, if you use that digital fasting, if you use that digital fasting, if you use that application, application, application, is that it is not just about abstaining. is that it is not just about abstaining. is that it is not just about abstaining. It's about engaging. It's about engaging. It's about engaging. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's not just about putting something >> It's not just about putting something >> It's not just about putting something down, it's picking something else up. down, it's picking something else up. down, it's picking something else up. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> And so the hope is when it comes to a >> And so the hope is when it comes to a >> And so the hope is when it comes to a digital fast that we would be redeeming digital fast that we would be redeeming digital fast that we would be redeeming the amount of time that we are and we the amount of time that we are and we the amount of time that we are and we know squandering away staring at a know squandering away staring at a know squandering away staring at a glowing rectangle, right? Uh the average glowing rectangle, right? Uh the average glowing rectangle, right? Uh the average screen time for an American adult is screen time for an American adult is screen time for an American adult is somewhere between 5 to 6 hours a day. somewhere between 5 to 6 hours a day. somewhere between 5 to 6 hours a day. >> And for a teenager, it's between seven >> And for a teenager, it's between seven >> And for a teenager, it's between seven and nine hours a day. That's like a and nine hours a day. That's like a and nine hours a day. That's like a full-time job. full-time job. full-time job. >> Yeah. I mean, this is this is shocking >> Yeah. I mean, this is this is shocking >> Yeah. I mean, this is this is shocking numbers if it wasn't for the fact that numbers if it wasn't for the fact that numbers if it wasn't for the fact that we're kind of almost used to it now, you we're kind of almost used to it now, you we're kind of almost used to it now, you know, and and and you go to an airport know, and and and you go to an airport know, and and and you go to an airport and you you're waiting at the terminal and you you're waiting at the terminal and you you're waiting at the terminal and approximately 100% of people are and approximately 100% of people are and approximately 100% of people are staring at a phone.

staring at a phone. staring at a phone. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, you go to Starbucks and people >> You know, you go to Starbucks and people >> You know, you go to Starbucks and people are standing in line and 100% of people are standing in line and 100% of people are standing in line and 100% of people are staring at their phone. like this is are staring at their phone. like this is are staring at their phone. like this is a whole new thing that is that has a whole new thing that is that has a whole new thing that is that has completely changed the makeup of our completely changed the makeup of our completely changed the makeup of our society, how we experience one another, society, how we experience one another, society, how we experience one another, how we interact with one another. how we interact with one another. how we interact with one another. What I'm hoping is that if people, like What I'm hoping is that if people, like What I'm hoping is that if people, like I talked about on the weekend, if people I talked about on the weekend, if people I talked about on the weekend, if people are able to make their smartphone dumb are able to make their smartphone dumb are able to make their smartphone dumb >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> by removing the distraction apps and >> by removing the distraction apps and >> by removing the distraction apps and reducing their phone down to a utility reducing their phone down to a utility reducing their phone down to a utility app, a utility device, what's going to app, a utility device, what's going to app, a utility device, what's going to happen is invariably they're going to happen is invariably they're going to happen is invariably they're going to grab their phone, they're going to open grab their phone, they're going to open grab their phone, they're going to open it, they're going to realize there's it, they're going to realize there's it, they're going to realize there's nothing cool to look at, and they're nothing cool to look at, and they're nothing cool to look at, and they're going to put it down again. And that's going to put it down again. And that's going to put it down again. And that's what we want. And and you'll do that for what we want. And and you'll do that for what we want. And and you'll do that for several days until you stop doing that. several days until you stop doing that. several days until you stop doing that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But I also want to replace that time >> But I also want to replace that time >> But I also want to replace that time with a spiritual practice that is going with a spiritual practice that is going with a spiritual practice that is going to nourish your soul.

to nourish your soul. to nourish your soul. >> With something that is going to breathe >> With something that is going to breathe >> With something that is going to breathe life and hope and faith into you. Uh we life and hope and faith into you. Uh we life and hope and faith into you. Uh we we live in a very cynical society. We we live in a very cynical society. We we live in a very cynical society. We live in a a society that is filled with live in a a society that is filled with live in a a society that is filled with division and uh division and uh division and uh ostracizing people who think differently ostracizing people who think differently ostracizing people who think differently to us. to us. to us. And to be able to fill your heart and And to be able to fill your heart and And to be able to fill your heart and your mind with the word of God, which your mind with the word of God, which your mind with the word of God, which Christians for thousands of years have Christians for thousands of years have Christians for thousands of years have held to the belief that the scripture is held to the belief that the scripture is held to the belief that the scripture is not just a historical document, but it not just a historical document, but it not just a historical document, but it is actually a supernatural document. is actually a supernatural document. is actually a supernatural document. that the that the word of God is alive that the that the word of God is alive that the that the word of God is alive and when we consume the word of God, it and when we consume the word of God, it and when we consume the word of God, it comes alive inside of us. comes alive inside of us. comes alive inside of us. >> That it is an ancient source of wisdom >> That it is an ancient source of wisdom >> That it is an ancient source of wisdom that is so much beyond uh reading other that is so much beyond uh reading other that is so much beyond uh reading other content. content. content. And so my my hope would be that people And so my my hope would be that people And so my my hope would be that people would be able to exchange and I'm not would be able to exchange and I'm not would be able to exchange and I'm not necessarily suggesting that they move to necessarily suggesting that they move to necessarily suggesting that they move to five to six hours, you know, reading five to six hours, you know, reading five to six hours, you know, reading Leviticus, Leviticus, Leviticus, but even if they gave some of that time but even if they gave some of that time but even if they gave some of that time to listen to the Bible on audio or to do to listen to the Bible on audio or to do to listen to the Bible on audio or to do a Bible study or to read a portion of a Bible study or to read a portion of a Bible study or to read a portion of scripture and then to stop and just ask scripture and then to stop and just ask scripture and then to stop and just ask God, would you highlight something for God, would you highlight something for God, would you highlight something for me? Is there something I'm supposed to me? Is there something I'm supposed to me? Is there something I'm supposed to notice about you, about this text, about notice about you, about this text, about notice about you, about this text, about me as I consume this, as I read this?

me as I consume this, as I read this? me as I consume this, as I read this? Uh, I have definitely found Uh, I have definitely found Uh, I have definitely found devoting the first part of my morning to devoting the first part of my morning to devoting the first part of my morning to uh a time in scripture, a time in uh a time in scripture, a time in uh a time in scripture, a time in prayer, and praying for my family and my prayer, and praying for my family and my prayer, and praying for my family and my church and my life, and a time church and my life, and a time church and my life, and a time meditating on God's word. um that sets meditating on God's word. um that sets meditating on God's word. um that sets my day up for uh pulling things in my day up for uh pulling things in my day up for uh pulling things in order, getting things with the w with order, getting things with the w with order, getting things with the w with with with the right priorities and and with with the right priorities and and with with the right priorities and and that has certainly been a big part of that has certainly been a big part of that has certainly been a big part of what I have adopted as I have uh what I have adopted as I have uh what I have adopted as I have uh rejected consuming so many hours on my rejected consuming so many hours on my rejected consuming so many hours on my phone. phone. phone. >> Yeah. you mentioned the idea of of like >> Yeah. you mentioned the idea of of like >> Yeah. you mentioned the idea of of like the Starbucks line or the airport the Starbucks line or the airport the Starbucks line or the airport terminal just being so different now terminal just being so different now terminal just being so different now just everybody looking everybody just just everybody looking everybody just just everybody looking everybody just being in their own worlds essentially being in their own worlds essentially being in their own worlds essentially and um I I was thinking of it as like and um I I was thinking of it as like and um I I was thinking of it as like we've lost the art of people watching uh we've lost the art of people watching uh we've lost the art of people watching uh where where it used to like I love where where it used to like I love where where it used to like I love people watching I love being at people watching I love being at people watching I love being at Disneyland and just being on Main Street Disneyland and just being on Main Street Disneyland and just being on Main Street and just seeing and watching the people and just seeing and watching the people and just seeing and watching the people who are there just walking by same thing who are there just walking by same thing who are there just walking by same thing at airports I find airports fascinating at airports I find airports fascinating at airports I find airports fascinating cuz you can just watch people and see cuz you can just watch people and see cuz you can just watch people and see how different people are acting, how different people are acting, how different people are acting, different people handle things. I wonder different people handle things. I wonder different people handle things. I wonder where they're going or whatnot. So, I where they're going or whatnot. So, I where they're going or whatnot. So, I wonder if there's like an opportunity wonder if there's like an opportunity wonder if there's like an opportunity for almost a digital fastish for almost a digital fastish for almost a digital fastish challenge. The next time you find challenge. The next time you find challenge. The next time you find yourself in line at Starbucks or at the yourself in line at Starbucks or at the yourself in line at Starbucks or at the airport and you're sitting and waiting,

airport and you're sitting and waiting, airport and you're sitting and waiting, instead of reaching down to pick up your instead of reaching down to pick up your instead of reaching down to pick up your phone, look around and even just say, phone, look around and even just say, phone, look around and even just say, "God, I don't know that person over "God, I don't know that person over "God, I don't know that person over there, but you do. So, I just pray for there, but you do. So, I just pray for there, but you do. So, I just pray for whatever is is coming up in their life whatever is is coming up in their life whatever is is coming up in their life right now. I just want to, you know, right now. I just want to, you know, right now. I just want to, you know, >> I I love that, you know, uh a fellow >> I I love that, you know, uh a fellow >> I I love that, you know, uh a fellow Californian, Dr. Felicia Wong, uh wrote Californian, Dr. Felicia Wong, uh wrote Californian, Dr. Felicia Wong, uh wrote a book called Restless Devices. I a book called Restless Devices. I a book called Restless Devices. I actually uh reference some of that in my actually uh reference some of that in my actually uh reference some of that in my research in in my book, research in in my book, research in in my book, >> but she she talks about the myth of >> but she she talks about the myth of >> but she she talks about the myth of multitasking. Multitasking isn't real. multitasking. Multitasking isn't real. multitasking. Multitasking isn't real. >> Uh you don't do two things at once. What >> Uh you don't do two things at once. What >> Uh you don't do two things at once. What you do is you switch between tasks. you do is you switch between tasks. you do is you switch between tasks. >> Yeah. You toggle. Yeah. >> Yeah. You toggle. Yeah. >> Yeah. You toggle. Yeah. >> So so so you are switching back and >> So so so you are switching back and >> So so so you are switching back and forth. You're not actually uh forth. You're not actually uh forth. You're not actually uh multitasking. multitasking. multitasking. But she said uh what if we challenged But she said uh what if we challenged But she said uh what if we challenged people to do something revolutionary and people to do something revolutionary and people to do something revolutionary and that is monotasking. that is monotasking. that is monotasking. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. do one thing at one time. So, if you're do one thing at one time. So, if you're do one thing at one time. So, if you're driving your car, you're not listening driving your car, you're not listening driving your car, you're not listening to a podcast. You're actually just to a podcast. You're actually just to a podcast. You're actually just driving your car.

driving your car. driving your car. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you're actually looking around and >> And you're actually looking around and >> And you're actually looking around and you're noticing uh the guy who's in your you're noticing uh the guy who's in your you're noticing uh the guy who's in your neighborhood who is mowing his grass is neighborhood who is mowing his grass is neighborhood who is mowing his grass is limping. Apparently, he's hurt himself. limping. Apparently, he's hurt himself. limping. Apparently, he's hurt himself. >> Mh. >> Mh. >> Mh. >> You know, like you're taking in >> You know, like you're taking in >> You know, like you're taking in information that is being present. Uh information that is being present. Uh information that is being present. Uh that has become a lost art. Mhm. that has become a lost art. Mhm. that has become a lost art. Mhm. >> What is so interesting is that when >> What is so interesting is that when >> What is so interesting is that when someone is particularly good at that, someone is particularly good at that, someone is particularly good at that, they really stand out. Now, they really stand out. Now, they really stand out. Now, >> when you're with someone who's so >> when you're with someone who's so >> when you're with someone who's so present, they're an active listener, present, they're an active listener, present, they're an active listener, they're nodding, they're they're like they're nodding, they're they're like they're nodding, they're they're like not breaking eye contact. You know, not breaking eye contact. You know, not breaking eye contact. You know, there's research that has been found, there's research that has been found, there's research that has been found, Simon Synynic talks a little bit about Simon Synynic talks a little bit about Simon Synynic talks a little bit about this, this, this, >> that the presence of your phone, just >> that the presence of your phone, just >> that the presence of your phone, just the presence of your phone in your hand the presence of your phone in your hand the presence of your phone in your hand changes the le and it doesn't even mean changes the le and it doesn't even mean changes the le and it doesn't even mean you don't even be looking at it. It you don't even be looking at it. It you don't even be looking at it. It changes the level of depth and changes the level of depth and changes the level of depth and vulnerability that someone is going to vulnerability that someone is going to vulnerability that someone is going to be willing to go to. If you have the be willing to go to. If you have the be willing to go to. If you have the presence of a phone even on a table even presence of a phone even on a table even presence of a phone even on a table even face down it is going to change the face down it is going to change the face down it is going to change the dynamic of a conversation because there dynamic of a conversation because there dynamic of a conversation because there is a potential there is a possibility to is a potential there is a possibility to is a potential there is a possibility to be interrupted by something that is be interrupted by something that is be interrupted by something that is deemed more important than what you are deemed more important than what you are deemed more important than what you are saying.

saying. saying. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And we have completely lost social >> And we have completely lost social >> And we have completely lost social etiquette. I mean, when did it become etiquette. I mean, when did it become etiquette. I mean, when did it become okay where someone's talking about their okay where someone's talking about their okay where someone's talking about their grandmother's on their deathbed and then grandmother's on their deathbed and then grandmother's on their deathbed and then you feel a buzz in your pocket and it's you feel a buzz in your pocket and it's you feel a buzz in your pocket and it's so irresistible so irresistible so irresistible that while they're talking to you, you that while they're talking to you, you that while they're talking to you, you pull it out of your pocket and you just pull it out of your pocket and you just pull it out of your pocket and you just sneak a look and you're like, "Oh, sneak a look and you're like, "Oh, sneak a look and you're like, "Oh, someone liked my Instagram post." I someone liked my Instagram post." I someone liked my Instagram post." I mean, what on earth are we doing? mean, what on earth are we doing? mean, what on earth are we doing? Yeah, that that's a very Yeah, that that's a very Yeah, that that's a very a very fair and probably very real point a very fair and probably very real point a very fair and probably very real point for a lot of us who are listening right for a lot of us who are listening right for a lot of us who are listening right now. Uh I I wanted to touch back in uh now. Uh I I wanted to touch back in uh now. Uh I I wanted to touch back in uh on the rhythms that we were talking on the rhythms that we were talking on the rhythms that we were talking about a little bit. about a little bit. about a little bit. You were talking a little bit about your You were talking a little bit about your You were talking a little bit about your morning rhythms that you have had morning rhythms that you have had morning rhythms that you have had started to establish. We talked about started to establish. We talked about started to establish. We talked about maybe trying to fill time in with with maybe trying to fill time in with with maybe trying to fill time in with with some scripture reading, some prayer. For some scripture reading, some prayer. For some scripture reading, some prayer. For I I understand that for newer I I understand that for newer I I understand that for newer Christians, but even for, you know, old Christians, but even for, you know, old Christians, but even for, you know, old hat Christians alike, the idea of hat Christians alike, the idea of hat Christians alike, the idea of establishing spiritual practices or establishing spiritual practices or establishing spiritual practices or rhythms can sound overwhelming. It rhythms can sound overwhelming. It rhythms can sound overwhelming. It sounds like being told do this, do this, sounds like being told do this, do this, sounds like being told do this, do this, do this, do this and then people start do this, do this and then people start do this, do this and then people start wilting at the thought of like ah I got wilting at the thought of like ah I got wilting at the thought of like ah I got I got so much but there's so much value I got so much but there's so much value I got so much but there's so much value in the uh in in the real practice of in the uh in in the real practice of in the uh in in the real practice of spiritual spiritual spiritual rhythms. So without overwhelming people, rhythms. So without overwhelming people, rhythms. So without overwhelming people, what would you recommend is like one

what would you recommend is like one what would you recommend is like one thing that a person could start today, thing that a person could start today, thing that a person could start today, tomorrow that can help to you know get tomorrow that can help to you know get tomorrow that can help to you know get them on this path towards engaging more them on this path towards engaging more them on this path towards engaging more with some spiritual disciplines? with some spiritual disciplines? with some spiritual disciplines? Well, throughout the New Testament, the Well, throughout the New Testament, the Well, throughout the New Testament, the metaphor of the body, metaphor of the body, metaphor of the body, exercise, exercise, exercise, uh, growth, all of that is used, uh, as uh, growth, all of that is used, uh, as uh, growth, all of that is used, uh, as a parallel for spiritual growth. It is, a parallel for spiritual growth. It is, a parallel for spiritual growth. It is, it's almost as if our physical bodies it's almost as if our physical bodies it's almost as if our physical bodies help us better understand our spiritual help us better understand our spiritual help us better understand our spiritual bodies or our spiritual being, our bodies or our spiritual being, our bodies or our spiritual being, our spiritual world. spiritual world. spiritual world. So how does one transform their physical So how does one transform their physical So how does one transform their physical body? Uh it is slowly body? Uh it is slowly body? Uh it is slowly and it is one principle is more and it is one principle is more and it is one principle is more important than anything else and that is important than anything else and that is important than anything else and that is consistency is better than intensity. consistency is better than intensity. consistency is better than intensity. you ever uh decided you were going to go you ever uh decided you were going to go you ever uh decided you were going to go to the gym and then you go along and you to the gym and then you go along and you to the gym and then you go along and you do a twohour like just workout and you do a twohour like just workout and you do a twohour like just workout and you just completely fatigue yourself and just completely fatigue yourself and just completely fatigue yourself and then you're like that was so then you're like that was so then you're like that was so unenjoyable. I'm not going back again unenjoyable. I'm not going back again unenjoyable. I'm not going back again for 3 months, for 3 months, for 3 months, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> You're not really going to see much >> You're not really going to see much >> You're not really going to see much transformation in your body. But if transformation in your body. But if transformation in your body. But if you're doing 30 minutes a day or you're you're doing 30 minutes a day or you're you're doing 30 minutes a day or you're you're doing 45 minutes four times a you're doing 45 minutes four times a you're doing 45 minutes four times a week and you consistently do that, you week and you consistently do that, you week and you consistently do that, you will cons the consistency will bring will cons the consistency will bring will cons the consistency will bring about transformation. about transformation. about transformation. So if there is only one spiritual So if there is only one spiritual So if there is only one spiritual practice that I could encourage people practice that I could encourage people practice that I could encourage people to do, it would be reading the to do, it would be reading the to do, it would be reading the scripture. scripture. scripture. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um it is disproportionately research has >> Um it is disproportionately research has >> Um it is disproportionately research has found more impactful than anything else found more impactful than anything else found more impactful than anything else that you can do. And the number, the that you can do. And the number, the that you can do. And the number, the magic number is if you can do it four magic number is if you can do it four magic number is if you can do it four times a week or more, it it it's like times a week or more, it it it's like times a week or more, it it it's like when there's been research, they have when there's been research, they have when there's been research, they have found that the the magic threshold is found that the the magic threshold is found that the the magic threshold is four or more. It's almost like physical four or more. It's almost like physical four or more. It's almost like physical exercise, right? If you are regularly exercise, right? If you are regularly exercise, right? If you are regularly reading the scripture, if you are reading the scripture, if you are reading the scripture, if you are regularly making that content a part of regularly making that content a part of regularly making that content a part of your life, you are feeding your soul your life, you are feeding your soul your life, you are feeding your soul with that content with that content with that content over time. It will change the way you over time. It will change the way you over time. It will change the way you think, see the world, the way you act.

think, see the world, the way you act. think, see the world, the way you act. It will it'll change your inner world. It will it'll change your inner world. It will it'll change your inner world. And so, um, consistency is is more And so, um, consistency is is more And so, um, consistency is is more important than intensity. And if you can important than intensity. And if you can important than intensity. And if you can read the scripture read the scripture read the scripture four times or more a week, study shows four times or more a week, study shows four times or more a week, study shows that over time it will actually that over time it will actually that over time it will actually transform the way you live. transform the way you live. transform the way you live. >> Yeah. And and just as an encouragement >> Yeah. And and just as an encouragement >> Yeah. And and just as an encouragement in that, there are many tools and in that, there are many tools and in that, there are many tools and resources to help make the if the Bible resources to help make the if the Bible resources to help make the if the Bible seems scary to you, if the Bible is seems scary to you, if the Bible is seems scary to you, if the Bible is something that you're like, "Yeah, it's, something that you're like, "Yeah, it's, something that you're like, "Yeah, it's, you know, all these old words, old you know, all these old words, old you know, all these old words, old stories, old places, whatnot. I don't stories, old places, whatnot. I don't stories, old places, whatnot. I don't really know what I'm doing." There are really know what I'm doing." There are really know what I'm doing." There are so many tools and resources available uh so many tools and resources available uh so many tools and resources available uh for you to help make it a little bit uh for you to help make it a little bit uh for you to help make it a little bit uh you know not as scary. Um I'll put some you know not as scary. Um I'll put some you know not as scary. Um I'll put some links to some that I'm thinking of in links to some that I'm thinking of in links to some that I'm thinking of in the show notes as as well. I see like the show notes as as well. I see like the show notes as as well. I see like even on the bookshelf now the audience even on the bookshelf now the audience even on the bookshelf now the audience can see this but on the bookshelf behind can see this but on the bookshelf behind can see this but on the bookshelf behind you you have you you have you you have Immerse Messiah behind you. That's Immerse Messiah behind you. That's Immerse Messiah behind you. That's that's a way it takes out all like the that's a way it takes out all like the that's a way it takes out all like the chapter numbers or whatnot. So, so chapter numbers or whatnot. So, so chapter numbers or whatnot. So, so you're just reading words and you're you're just reading words and you're you're just reading words and you're reading along and it makes you not want reading along and it makes you not want reading along and it makes you not want to stop. You just want to keep going.

to stop. You just want to keep going. to stop. You just want to keep going. Uh, I'll I'll plug too on this podcast. Uh, I'll I'll plug too on this podcast. Uh, I'll I'll plug too on this podcast. We've been doing this navigating the We've been doing this navigating the We've been doing this navigating the Bible series. So, you can go through Bible series. So, you can go through Bible series. So, you can go through we've done at this point when this we've done at this point when this we've done at this point when this releases, we've done Genesis through releases, we've done Genesis through releases, we've done Genesis through Isaiah, every book. So, you can listen Isaiah, every book. So, you can listen Isaiah, every book. So, you can listen to a person who's written a commentary to a person who's written a commentary to a person who's written a commentary explain what the book is about. So, then explain what the book is about. So, then explain what the book is about. So, then you can go in and read it with a little you can go in and read it with a little you can go in and read it with a little bit more understanding of it. So, bit more understanding of it. So, bit more understanding of it. So, there's just some examples. The Bible there's just some examples. The Bible there's just some examples. The Bible Project is another big popular one that Project is another big popular one that Project is another big popular one that you can watch these videos that talk you can watch these videos that talk you can watch these videos that talk about it. So again, it doesn't have to about it. So again, it doesn't have to about it. So again, it doesn't have to be a scary thing and in fact it's a uh be a scary thing and in fact it's a uh be a scary thing and in fact it's a uh inspired thing and you know what, the inspired thing and you know what, the inspired thing and you know what, the Holy Spirit that's living in you is Holy Spirit that's living in you is Holy Spirit that's living in you is going to just eat it up and be and put going to just eat it up and be and put going to just eat it up and be and put this excitement in you whenever you this excitement in you whenever you this excitement in you whenever you engage with God's word. Uh so that's my engage with God's word. Uh so that's my engage with God's word. Uh so that's my big push for reading the Bible. big push for reading the Bible. big push for reading the Bible. >> I love that. I love that. >> I love that. I love that. >> I love that. I love that. I wanted to shift gears a little bit if I wanted to shift gears a little bit if I wanted to shift gears a little bit if you will, Darren. Uh you spent a number you will, Darren. Uh you spent a number you will, Darren. Uh you spent a number of years ministering in Australia and of years ministering in Australia and of years ministering in Australia and now you've been ministering in now you've been ministering in now you've been ministering in in Tennessee, so you've been in the in Tennessee, so you've been in the in Tennessee, so you've been in the state side for a while. Can you do a state side for a while. Can you do a state side for a while. Can you do a compare and contrast a little bit for compare and contrast a little bit for compare and contrast a little bit for us? What is it like trying to shepherd us? What is it like trying to shepherd us? What is it like trying to shepherd people in Australia versus the US? And people in Australia versus the US? And people in Australia versus the US? And how have you seen things the same or how have you seen things the same or how have you seen things the same or have you seen some differences?

have you seen some differences? have you seen some differences? Yeah. Well, I uh was born and raised in Yeah. Well, I uh was born and raised in Yeah. Well, I uh was born and raised in Australia and I lived there till I was Australia and I lived there till I was Australia and I lived there till I was 23 and I moved to the United States in 23 and I moved to the United States in 23 and I moved to the United States in 1998 or as my children call it the 1998 or as my children call it the 1998 or as my children call it the 1900s. 1900s. 1900s. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And uh and I'm now 51. So I've been here >> And uh and I'm now 51. So I've been here >> And uh and I'm now 51. So I've been here for 27 years. I've lived in the US for 27 years. I've lived in the US for 27 years. I've lived in the US longer than I lived in Australia. longer than I lived in Australia. longer than I lived in Australia. >> Yeah. But um what would be helpful for >> Yeah. But um what would be helpful for >> Yeah. But um what would be helpful for Americans to understand is uh Australia Americans to understand is uh Australia Americans to understand is uh Australia uh has a profound awareness of the uh has a profound awareness of the uh has a profound awareness of the United States. I mean the United States United States. I mean the United States United States. I mean the United States is globally dominant when it comes to is globally dominant when it comes to is globally dominant when it comes to the media when it comes to you know the the media when it comes to you know the the media when it comes to you know the films that come out of Hollywood uh you films that come out of Hollywood uh you films that come out of Hollywood uh you know fashion music you know the the the know fashion music you know the the the know fashion music you know the the the media emanates out of the the United media emanates out of the the United media emanates out of the the United States. So, I grew up watching Sesame States. So, I grew up watching Sesame States. So, I grew up watching Sesame Street like most of the listeners did. I Street like most of the listeners did. I Street like most of the listeners did. I learned to say the alphabet with an with learned to say the alphabet with an with learned to say the alphabet with an with an American accent thanks to Elmo. You an American accent thanks to Elmo. You an American accent thanks to Elmo. You know, I I kind of learned it like with know, I I kind of learned it like with know, I I kind of learned it like with you. So, uh your average Aussie is very you. So, uh your average Aussie is very you. So, uh your average Aussie is very very familiar with American culture. Uh very familiar with American culture. Uh very familiar with American culture. Uh much much more familiar with American much much more familiar with American much much more familiar with American culture than the the United States uh culture than the the United States uh culture than the the United States uh population is with with Australia.

population is with with Australia. population is with with Australia. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But there there's a lot of things that >> But there there's a lot of things that >> But there there's a lot of things that are similar. Um, obviously it's English are similar. Um, obviously it's English are similar. Um, obviously it's English speaking. It is uh there's it's a very speaking. It is uh there's it's a very speaking. It is uh there's it's a very high quality of lifestyle for the most high quality of lifestyle for the most high quality of lifestyle for the most part. Um, Aussies like to laugh. Aussies part. Um, Aussies like to laugh. Aussies part. Um, Aussies like to laugh. Aussies respond well to people who are respond well to people who are respond well to people who are passionate. Uh, passion is contagious passionate. Uh, passion is contagious passionate. Uh, passion is contagious and um Aussies for the most part uh are and um Aussies for the most part uh are and um Aussies for the most part uh are intrigued by people who are passionate. intrigued by people who are passionate. intrigued by people who are passionate. particularly you get in a faith space, a particularly you get in a faith space, a particularly you get in a faith space, a religious space when something is deeply religious space when something is deeply religious space when something is deeply true to someone. Uh both Americans and true to someone. Uh both Americans and true to someone. Uh both Americans and Aussies generally speaking are intrigued Aussies generally speaking are intrigued Aussies generally speaking are intrigued by that. Uh there's some big by that. Uh there's some big by that. Uh there's some big differences. Uh the United States differences. Uh the United States differences. Uh the United States is a is a meritocracy. is a is a meritocracy. is a is a meritocracy. >> Uh uh Americans love success stories. >> Uh uh Americans love success stories. >> Uh uh Americans love success stories. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Americans love the underdog. Uh >> Americans love the underdog. Uh >> Americans love the underdog. Uh Americans are a for the most part are Americans are a for the most part are Americans are a for the most part are certainly compared to other countries certainly compared to other countries certainly compared to other countries are an encouraging nation of people.

are an encouraging nation of people. are an encouraging nation of people. They produce winners. They produce winners. They produce winners. >> There is a an idea that I I I first >> There is a an idea that I I I first >> There is a an idea that I I I first heard with Ronald Rohiser. He called it heard with Ronald Rohiser. He called it heard with Ronald Rohiser. He called it the winner's script. the winner's script. the winner's script. >> Americans have the winners script. And >> Americans have the winners script. And >> Americans have the winners script. And if you're not very careful, it actually if you're not very careful, it actually if you're not very careful, it actually gets applied to the scripture. it gets gets applied to the scripture. it gets gets applied to the scripture. it gets applied to modern Christianity and uh uh applied to modern Christianity and uh uh applied to modern Christianity and uh uh the word the theological word for that the word the theological word for that the word the theological word for that is synratism. It's kind of the idea that is synratism. It's kind of the idea that is synratism. It's kind of the idea that the culture and the gospel blend the culture and the gospel blend the culture and the gospel blend together and they and they say that together and they and they say that together and they and they say that they're the same. It's almost like the they're the same. It's almost like the they're the same. It's almost like the American dream American dream American dream >> and the gospel are the same thing when >> and the gospel are the same thing when >> and the gospel are the same thing when they're actually not the same thing. they're actually not the same thing. they're actually not the same thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But Americans applaud the winner. >> But Americans applaud the winner. >> But Americans applaud the winner. And you know, you in one sense you could And you know, you in one sense you could And you know, you in one sense you could describe Jesus as like, you know, born describe Jesus as like, you know, born describe Jesus as like, you know, born of a virgin. What a great start for that of a virgin. What a great start for that of a virgin. What a great start for that young guy, you know, and then at the age young guy, you know, and then at the age young guy, you know, and then at the age of 12, he's already dumbfounding the the of 12, he's already dumbfounding the the of 12, he's already dumbfounding the the teachings of the law at the temple. teachings of the law at the temple. teachings of the law at the temple. Yeah. Like what a sharp young man. And Yeah. Like what a sharp young man. And Yeah. Like what a sharp young man. And he just continues to dominate until he he just continues to dominate until he he just continues to dominate until he turns 30. And then he's baptized. And turns 30. And then he's baptized. And turns 30. And then he's baptized. And there's a voice from heaven saying, there's a voice from heaven saying, there's a voice from heaven saying, "This is my winner, son. Watch him go."

"This is my winner, son. Watch him go." "This is my winner, son. Watch him go." You know, and then he he he he he leads You know, and then he he he he he leads You know, and then he he he he he leads a movement of people and thousands of a movement of people and thousands of a movement of people and thousands of people start to to follow him and and people start to to follow him and and people start to to follow him and and then he's put to death and then he then he's put to death and then he then he's put to death and then he conquers death cuz he's such a winner, conquers death cuz he's such a winner, conquers death cuz he's such a winner, you know, which is not the gospel, by you know, which is not the gospel, by you know, which is not the gospel, by the way. in the gospel is that you know the way. in the gospel is that you know the way. in the gospel is that you know Jesus lived in total obscurity doing Jesus lived in total obscurity doing Jesus lived in total obscurity doing menial labor for the first 30 years of menial labor for the first 30 years of menial labor for the first 30 years of his life his life his life and then he ends up being put to death and then he ends up being put to death and then he ends up being put to death and uh you know uh and and all his and uh you know uh and and all his and uh you know uh and and all his friends and followers abandon him friends and followers abandon him friends and followers abandon him >> you know I mean of course he he conquers >> you know I mean of course he he conquers >> you know I mean of course he he conquers sin and death through the resurrection sin and death through the resurrection sin and death through the resurrection but it is not this this winner's script but it is not this this winner's script but it is not this this winner's script right right right >> Americans love that And it is it's not >> Americans love that And it is it's not >> Americans love that And it is it's not exactly the gospel. exactly the gospel. exactly the gospel. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Aussies on the other hand, they have a a >> Aussies on the other hand, they have a a >> Aussies on the other hand, they have a a cultural phenomenon called the tall cultural phenomenon called the tall cultural phenomenon called the tall poppy syndrome. poppy syndrome. poppy syndrome. >> Oh, I've never heard of this. Yes. >> Oh, I've never heard of this. Yes. >> Oh, I've never heard of this. Yes. >> So, the tall poppy syndrome, it actually >> So, the tall poppy syndrome, it actually >> So, the tall poppy syndrome, it actually originated in ancient Greece, but it's originated in ancient Greece, but it's originated in ancient Greece, but it's very very pervasive in Australia. Tall very very pervasive in Australia. Tall very very pervasive in Australia. Tall poppy syndrome is the idea that uh a poppy syndrome is the idea that uh a poppy syndrome is the idea that uh a poppy a flower that rises to the top the poppy a flower that rises to the top the poppy a flower that rises to the top the top needs to be cut off. Right.

top needs to be cut off. Right. top needs to be cut off. Right. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So if someone's particularly successful >> So if someone's particularly successful >> So if someone's particularly successful in Australia, Aussies have a little bit in Australia, Aussies have a little bit in Australia, Aussies have a little bit of a cynical approach to that. Americans of a cynical approach to that. Americans of a cynical approach to that. Americans celebrate the winner. Aussies are celebrate the winner. Aussies are celebrate the winner. Aussies are cynical about it. They want to cut him cynical about it. They want to cut him cynical about it. They want to cut him down. You know, in so interestingly, down. You know, in so interestingly, down. You know, in so interestingly, Steve Irwin was not liked in Australia Steve Irwin was not liked in Australia Steve Irwin was not liked in Australia >> until he became really globally popular >> until he became really globally popular >> until he became really globally popular in America. in America. in America. >> Yeah. How funny. >> Yeah. How funny. >> Yeah. How funny. >> Aussies thought he was an idiot. >> Aussies thought he was an idiot. >> Aussies thought he was an idiot. >> So he was like, you know, building this >> So he was like, you know, building this >> So he was like, you know, building this global movement of celebrating global movement of celebrating global movement of celebrating Australian animals. Australian animals. Australian animals. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And Aussies thought he was an idiot and >> And Aussies thought he was an idiot and >> And Aussies thought he was an idiot and were embarrassed about him. And then were embarrassed about him. And then were embarrassed about him. And then America embraces him like a stun and America embraces him like a stun and America embraces him like a stun and Aussies are kind of like, "All right, I Aussies are kind of like, "All right, I Aussies are kind of like, "All right, I guess he's fine." You know? guess he's fine." You know? guess he's fine." You know? >> So Aussies cut down the winner and >> So Aussies cut down the winner and >> So Aussies cut down the winner and Americans celebrate them. That is a Americans celebrate them. That is a Americans celebrate them. That is a fundamental difference between the two fundamental difference between the two fundamental difference between the two cultures. cultures. cultures. >> That's fascinating. But but even what >> That's fascinating. But but even what >> That's fascinating. But but even what you were saying about about the states you were saying about about the states you were saying about about the states and about, you know, Americans who and about, you know, Americans who and about, you know, Americans who celebrate the winter or whatnot, it's celebrate the winter or whatnot, it's celebrate the winter or whatnot, it's it's interesting as you said, that's not it's interesting as you said, that's not it's interesting as you said, that's not the gospel. And so when what the Bible the gospel. And so when what the Bible the gospel. And so when what the Bible does is hold up this mirror and points does is hold up this mirror and points does is hold up this mirror and points out like hey here's this flawed person out like hey here's this flawed person out like hey here's this flawed person like I don't know if you see the flawed like I don't know if you see the flawed like I don't know if you see the flawed person who you are and then we have this person who you are and then we have this person who you are and then we have this savior who is you know here to wash away savior who is you know here to wash away savior who is you know here to wash away your sin like like this is you know

your sin like like this is you know your sin like like this is you know here's here in the Bible we see how God here's here in the Bible we see how God here's here in the Bible we see how God made you and how God like how he made you and how God like how he made you and how God like how he designed you and but what you see in designed you and but what you see in designed you and but what you see in real life is you the flawed sinner that real life is you the flawed sinner that real life is you the flawed sinner that you are who needs to be saved by grace. you are who needs to be saved by grace. you are who needs to be saved by grace. And so that's what that's the And so that's what that's the And so that's what that's the interesting part with American culture interesting part with American culture interesting part with American culture as you were saying is is we have this as you were saying is is we have this as you were saying is is we have this meritocracy. So that's why prosperity meritocracy. So that's why prosperity meritocracy. So that's why prosperity gospel is such a potent thing here gospel is such a potent thing here gospel is such a potent thing here because you're like, "Oh, if I'm good because you're like, "Oh, if I'm good because you're like, "Oh, if I'm good enough, if I'm doing it, well, I deserve enough, if I'm doing it, well, I deserve enough, if I'm doing it, well, I deserve to get the good things in life." Whereas to get the good things in life." Whereas to get the good things in life." Whereas what the Bible's saying actually you what the Bible's saying actually you what the Bible's saying actually you gotta like fall at the feet of Jesus gotta like fall at the feet of Jesus gotta like fall at the feet of Jesus here and surrender yourself to uh you here and surrender yourself to uh you here and surrender yourself to uh you know to him and realize I'm not all I'm know to him and realize I'm not all I'm know to him and realize I'm not all I'm cracked up to be uh on my own. It's only cracked up to be uh on my own. It's only cracked up to be uh on my own. It's only with God only putting on the clothing of with God only putting on the clothing of with God only putting on the clothing of of the spirit of righteousness uh that I of the spirit of righteousness uh that I of the spirit of righteousness uh that I can actually like stand before God can actually like stand before God can actually like stand before God >> 100%. And it's all hidden in plain >> 100%. And it's all hidden in plain >> 100%. And it's all hidden in plain sight. sight. sight. >> Yeah. But we we tend to put on the >> Yeah. But we we tend to put on the >> Yeah. But we we tend to put on the winner script glasses and we read the winner script glasses and we read the winner script glasses and we read the scripture through those glasses scripture through those glasses scripture through those glasses >> for sure.

>> for sure. >> for sure. >> When if you consider when when >> When if you consider when when >> When if you consider when when >> the the the time between Jesus rose from >> the the the time between Jesus rose from >> the the the time between Jesus rose from the dead and he ascended to heaven was the dead and he ascended to heaven was the dead and he ascended to heaven was 40 days. And in those 40 days he went 40 days. And in those 40 days he went 40 days. And in those 40 days he went and recruited the people that were going and recruited the people that were going and recruited the people that were going to begin the church. The the first to begin the church. The the first to begin the church. The the first people he recruited were the two on the people he recruited were the two on the people he recruited were the two on the road to Emmas who had abandoned the road to Emmas who had abandoned the road to Emmas who had abandoned the whole movement and they were leaving. So whole movement and they were leaving. So whole movement and they were leaving. So he goes and walks alongside of people he goes and walks alongside of people he goes and walks alongside of people who were abandoning like they were who were abandoning like they were who were abandoning like they were unfaithful. They were disappointed that unfaithful. They were disappointed that unfaithful. They were disappointed that Jesus has been put to death. They Jesus has been put to death. They Jesus has been put to death. They abandoned their post and they left abandoned their post and they left abandoned their post and they left Jerusalem. Right. So the first people he Jerusalem. Right. So the first people he Jerusalem. Right. So the first people he he he recruits are people that have he he recruits are people that have he he recruits are people that have given up and left. given up and left. given up and left. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Then he goes and finds Thomas. Thomas is >> Then he goes and finds Thomas. Thomas is >> Then he goes and finds Thomas. Thomas is the one that says, "I will not believe." the one that says, "I will not believe." the one that says, "I will not believe." Only a short time earlier he was like, Only a short time earlier he was like, Only a short time earlier he was like, you know, if let's go to Jerusalem and you know, if let's go to Jerusalem and you know, if let's go to Jerusalem and die with Jesus. He's willing to die. And die with Jesus. He's willing to die. And die with Jesus. He's willing to die. And then he says, "Well, unless I put my then he says, "Well, unless I put my then he says, "Well, unless I put my finger in his side and uh and and and finger in his side and uh and and and finger in his side and uh and and and and touch the nail scars, you know, I and touch the nail scars, you know, I and touch the nail scars, you know, I will not believe." And and so here's will not believe." And and so here's will not believe." And and so here's someone that that is a doubter and and someone that that is a doubter and and someone that that is a doubter and and and he doesn't believe and he chooses and he doesn't believe and he chooses and he doesn't believe and he chooses him. You got Peter who denies Jesus him. You got Peter who denies Jesus him. You got Peter who denies Jesus three times. The very thing that he's so three times. The very thing that he's so three times. The very thing that he's so sure he's not going to do, he fails and sure he's not going to do, he fails and sure he's not going to do, he fails and he does. And Jesus said, "I'm going to he does. And Jesus said, "I'm going to he does. And Jesus said, "I'm going to build my entire church on you." The guy build my entire church on you." The guy build my entire church on you." The guy who was unfaithful when he said he was who was unfaithful when he said he was who was unfaithful when he said he was going to be faithful. And then the going to be faithful. And then the going to be faithful. And then the disciples themselves, I mean, they disciples themselves, I mean, they disciples themselves, I mean, they locked themselves in a room and they locked themselves in a room and they locked themselves in a room and they were afraid of the of the Jewish were afraid of the of the Jewish were afraid of the of the Jewish leaders. So, you've got all these these leaders. So, you've got all these these leaders. So, you've got all these these cowards and Jesus is going, "Here's my cowards and Jesus is going, "Here's my cowards and Jesus is going, "Here's my team. Not the winners, not the guys who

team. Not the winners, not the guys who team. Not the winners, not the guys who have got everything together. These are have got everything together. These are have got everything together. These are the ones that have like failed at every the ones that have like failed at every the ones that have like failed at every turn." And he says, "These are the ones turn." And he says, "These are the ones turn." And he says, "These are the ones that I'm choosing to build a redemptive that I'm choosing to build a redemptive that I'm choosing to build a redemptive movement called the church on." movement called the church on." movement called the church on." >> Yeah. You gotta love what God does, right? You gotta love what God does, right? >> Gives hope for the rest of us, right? >> Gives hope for the rest of us, right? >> Gives hope for the rest of us, right? >> It's for for sure. >> It's for for sure. >> It's for for sure. And Darren, as we start to wrap up our And Darren, as we start to wrap up our And Darren, as we start to wrap up our our time together today, I wanted to our time together today, I wanted to our time together today, I wanted to hearken back to the books that you've hearken back to the books that you've hearken back to the books that you've written, uh, you have the digital fast, written, uh, you have the digital fast, written, uh, you have the digital fast, you have you have you have holy roar, and the rumors of God. And as holy roar, and the rumors of God. And as holy roar, and the rumors of God. And as I was thinking about these books, I I it I was thinking about these books, I I it I was thinking about these books, I I it started to kind of seem to me at least started to kind of seem to me at least started to kind of seem to me at least that you have this message that you're that you have this message that you're that you have this message that you're putting forth about wanting to call the putting forth about wanting to call the putting forth about wanting to call the reader back to something that you're reader back to something that you're reader back to something that you're wanting to kind of draw them back in to wanting to kind of draw them back in to wanting to kind of draw them back in to a a deeper, more personal relationship a a deeper, more personal relationship a a deeper, more personal relationship with God and ignore the distractions of with God and ignore the distractions of with God and ignore the distractions of the world, but calling them back to God.

the world, but calling them back to God. the world, but calling them back to God. So as we as we close here today, can you So as we as we close here today, can you So as we as we close here today, can you unpack for us a little bit the message unpack for us a little bit the message unpack for us a little bit the message that you have felt God has put on your that you have felt God has put on your that you have felt God has put on your heart for this generation and the next heart for this generation and the next heart for this generation and the next generation of the church? generation of the church? generation of the church? >> Yeah. Well, one of the great dangers of >> Yeah. Well, one of the great dangers of >> Yeah. Well, one of the great dangers of technology is that we raise a generation technology is that we raise a generation technology is that we raise a generation who know about God, but they don't know who know about God, but they don't know who know about God, but they don't know how to be with him. how to be with him. how to be with him. And and that is because technology is And and that is because technology is And and that is because technology is suffocating our ability to be present. suffocating our ability to be present. suffocating our ability to be present. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and what I have found and what gives >> And and what I have found and what gives >> And and what I have found and what gives me great hope is that the hunger of the me great hope is that the hunger of the me great hope is that the hunger of the next generation for encounter with the next generation for encounter with the next generation for encounter with the divine has never been higher. Mhm. divine has never been higher. Mhm. divine has never been higher. Mhm. >> You know, I moved to America in the '9s >> You know, I moved to America in the '9s >> You know, I moved to America in the '9s and I think that we were in a moment and I think that we were in a moment and I think that we were in a moment then where uh the seeker movement was then where uh the seeker movement was then where uh the seeker movement was was a big movement in in in was a big movement in in in was a big movement in in in Christryendom. Christryendom. Christryendom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And in one sense the seeker movement was >> And in one sense the seeker movement was >> And in one sense the seeker movement was trying to give a rational trying to give a rational trying to give a rational explanation explanation explanation for our faith. the idea that our faith for our faith. the idea that our faith for our faith. the idea that our faith can hold up under scrutiny, that the can hold up under scrutiny, that the can hold up under scrutiny, that the teachings of Jesus can be applied to the teachings of Jesus can be applied to the teachings of Jesus can be applied to the way that we live our lives and they way that we live our lives and they way that we live our lives and they actually make sense and they produce actually make sense and they produce actually make sense and they produce fruit. So there was a movement of like fruit. So there was a movement of like fruit. So there was a movement of like make Christianity rational.

make Christianity rational. make Christianity rational. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And and that sort of worked for that >> And and that sort of worked for that >> And and that sort of worked for that generation, but now we've got this new generation, but now we've got this new generation, but now we've got this new generation generation generation and there is such a hunger for the and there is such a hunger for the and there is such a hunger for the spiritual. spiritual. spiritual. There's such a hunger for the divine. There's such a hunger for the divine. There's such a hunger for the divine. And instead of making Christianity And instead of making Christianity And instead of making Christianity rational, rational, rational, I think there's a little bit more of a I think there's a little bit more of a I think there's a little bit more of a of a desire to like help Christianity of a desire to like help Christianity of a desire to like help Christianity remain spiritual. remain spiritual. remain spiritual. >> This this is about a relationship with >> This this is about a relationship with >> This this is about a relationship with the living God. This is about the living God. This is about the living God. This is about experiencing him. experiencing him. experiencing him. >> Yeah. This is about faith which does not >> Yeah. This is about faith which does not >> Yeah. This is about faith which does not always fit neatly into a collection of always fit neatly into a collection of always fit neatly into a collection of of rational phrases or or ideas. You of rational phrases or or ideas. You of rational phrases or or ideas. You know, there's there's a couple of ways know, there's there's a couple of ways know, there's there's a couple of ways you can look at the world. You can you can look at the world. You can you can look at the world. You can either look at the world and say every either look at the world and say every either look at the world and say every single thing in the entire world has a single thing in the entire world has a single thing in the entire world has a rational explanation. rational explanation. rational explanation. Science and reason is behind absolutely Science and reason is behind absolutely Science and reason is behind absolutely everything we possibly experience in the everything we possibly experience in the everything we possibly experience in the world. That's one way you can look at world. That's one way you can look at world. That's one way you can look at the world.

the world. the world. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> The other way you can look at the world >> The other way you can look at the world >> The other way you can look at the world is like is like is like there is room in my world view for the there is room in my world view for the there is room in my world view for the other. other. other. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> For the unexplainable, >> For the unexplainable, >> For the unexplainable, for the spiritual. for the spiritual. for the spiritual. There are certain times, there are There are certain times, there are There are certain times, there are certain moments in my life where I am certain moments in my life where I am certain moments in my life where I am feeling this connection with the divine. feeling this connection with the divine. feeling this connection with the divine. It is sometimes guidance. It is It is sometimes guidance. It is It is sometimes guidance. It is sometimes meeting a certain person. It sometimes meeting a certain person. It sometimes meeting a certain person. It is sometimes a sense that is so strong is sometimes a sense that is so strong is sometimes a sense that is so strong on me that I I have to do something or I on me that I I have to do something or I on me that I I have to do something or I have to help someone or I need to have to help someone or I need to have to help someone or I need to inconvenience myself or someone else and inconvenience myself or someone else and inconvenience myself or someone else and there is some other force in the world there is some other force in the world there is some other force in the world that is guiding me to do that. So you that is guiding me to do that. So you that is guiding me to do that. So you can think that the world is utterly can think that the world is utterly can think that the world is utterly explainable by science and rationale or explainable by science and rationale or explainable by science and rationale or you can have room for for the other. And you can have room for for the other. And you can have room for for the other. And I feel like the next generation I feel like the next generation I feel like the next generation are discovering are discovering are discovering that the promises of secular humanism that the promises of secular humanism that the promises of secular humanism are collapsing on themselves are collapsing on themselves are collapsing on themselves and and people are coming up feeling and and people are coming up feeling and and people are coming up feeling like there is there is no meaning, there like there is there is no meaning, there like there is there is no meaning, there is no purpose behind any of this.

is no purpose behind any of this. is no purpose behind any of this. And so then there is this resurgence of And so then there is this resurgence of And so then there is this resurgence of interest in the ancient sources. interest in the ancient sources. interest in the ancient sources. Is it possible that writers 2,000 years Is it possible that writers 2,000 years Is it possible that writers 2,000 years ago were accessing some wisdom that ago were accessing some wisdom that ago were accessing some wisdom that actually can speak in with profound actually can speak in with profound actually can speak in with profound clarity to 2025 clarity to 2025 clarity to 2025 in ways that perhaps in ways that perhaps in ways that perhaps our technology, our health care, our our technology, our health care, our our technology, our health care, our wealth, our comfort, all of the wealth, our comfort, all of the wealth, our comfort, all of the developments of modern society are not developments of modern society are not developments of modern society are not doing for us because we have a greater doing for us because we have a greater doing for us because we have a greater mental mental health crisis than we've mental mental health crisis than we've mental mental health crisis than we've had in any time in history. Is it had in any time in history. Is it had in any time in history. Is it possible that some of these ancient possible that some of these ancient possible that some of these ancient sources, some of these ancient sources sources, some of these ancient sources sources, some of these ancient sources of wisdom and access to the divine are of wisdom and access to the divine are of wisdom and access to the divine are really onto something. We're seeing a really onto something. We're seeing a really onto something. We're seeing a movement like that and it brings me movement like that and it brings me movement like that and it brings me great joy. M great joy. M great joy. M well thank you for all that you're doing well thank you for all that you're doing well thank you for all that you're doing to share uh this message and to point to share uh this message and to point to share uh this message and to point people back to uh a way to you know people back to uh a way to you know people back to uh a way to you know bolster their relationship with God.

bolster their relationship with God. bolster their relationship with God. Really appreciate your time here with us Really appreciate your time here with us Really appreciate your time here with us today too. Darren, would you mind today too. Darren, would you mind today too. Darren, would you mind closing us up uh in prayer? Specifically closing us up uh in prayer? Specifically closing us up uh in prayer? Specifically praying exactly for what you were just praying exactly for what you were just praying exactly for what you were just talking about for people who feel like, talking about for people who feel like, talking about for people who feel like, you know, they've been distracted that you know, they've been distracted that you know, they've been distracted that they, you know, just feel unsure about they, you know, just feel unsure about they, you know, just feel unsure about things and that there there is a way things and that there there is a way things and that there there is a way that there is, you know, a a a a Holy that there is, you know, a a a a Holy that there is, you know, a a a a Holy Spirit who wants to love on them. there Spirit who wants to love on them. there Spirit who wants to love on them. there is a savior who has saved them and there is a savior who has saved them and there is a savior who has saved them and there is a a god the father who has created is a a god the father who has created is a a god the father who has created them to love them and that this message them to love them and that this message them to love them and that this message is is timeless and it is for each and is is timeless and it is for each and is is timeless and it is for each and every person. every person. every person. I would love to do that. Let's pray. I would love to do that. Let's pray. I would love to do that. Let's pray. God, I got to believe that so many God, I got to believe that so many God, I got to believe that so many people who are listening to this are people who are listening to this are people who are listening to this are listening to this because they are listening to this because they are listening to this because they are unhappy with how much time they are unhappy with how much time they are unhappy with how much time they are consuming digital media and they want to consuming digital media and they want to consuming digital media and they want to make some sort of change and they're make some sort of change and they're make some sort of change and they're looking for a way forward. And I pray looking for a way forward. And I pray looking for a way forward. And I pray God that you would use this, you would God that you would use this, you would God that you would use this, you would use the talk from the weekend, you would use the talk from the weekend, you would use the talk from the weekend, you would use the podcast, you would use this use the podcast, you would use this use the podcast, you would use this discussion, you would use uh resources discussion, you would use uh resources discussion, you would use uh resources that are out there that would provide that are out there that would provide that are out there that would provide guidance to be turning down digital guidance to be turning down digital guidance to be turning down digital distraction distraction distraction and turning up your voice, turning up and turning up your voice, turning up and turning up your voice, turning up devotion.

devotion. devotion. I pray that as people courageously take I pray that as people courageously take I pray that as people courageously take steps to engage in this, they will find steps to engage in this, they will find steps to engage in this, they will find you. They will find your presence. They you. They will find your presence. They you. They will find your presence. They will find you breathing upon them. That will find you breathing upon them. That will find you breathing upon them. That you would entrust to them little you would entrust to them little you would entrust to them little treasures throughout the day. That you treasures throughout the day. That you treasures throughout the day. That you would give them deposits inside of them would give them deposits inside of them would give them deposits inside of them that would be nourishing their souls. I that would be nourishing their souls. I that would be nourishing their souls. I pray that there would be a yearning and pray that there would be a yearning and pray that there would be a yearning and there would be a follow through. there would be a follow through. there would be a follow through. wouldn't merely be listening to the word wouldn't merely be listening to the word wouldn't merely be listening to the word and deceive ourselves. It would be doing and deceive ourselves. It would be doing and deceive ourselves. It would be doing what it says what it says what it says and that we would take time to limit our and that we would take time to limit our and that we would take time to limit our distractions of the digital world and distractions of the digital world and distractions of the digital world and meditate on your word night and day and meditate on your word night and day and meditate on your word night and day and that we would find a blessing that that we would find a blessing that that we would find a blessing that accompanies that faithfulness. accompanies that faithfulness. accompanies that faithfulness. I pray for a movement of people that are I pray for a movement of people that are I pray for a movement of people that are doing this and I pray that it would doing this and I pray that it would doing this and I pray that it would bring great joy. It would ignite a bring great joy. It would ignite a bring great joy. It would ignite a movement among teenagers and parents and movement among teenagers and parents and movement among teenagers and parents and grandparents and schools and churches grandparents and schools and churches grandparents and schools and churches that we would be pushing back the forces that we would be pushing back the forces that we would be pushing back the forces of darkness that are trying to just keep of darkness that are trying to just keep of darkness that are trying to just keep us distracted in the shallows and our us distracted in the shallows and our us distracted in the shallows and our minds fragmented with visual junk food.

minds fragmented with visual junk food. minds fragmented with visual junk food. And you would give us such an appetite And you would give us such an appetite And you would give us such an appetite for the things of the kingdom of God. for the things of the kingdom of God. for the things of the kingdom of God. This is what we're asking for and This is what we're asking for and This is what we're asking for and praying for. And we pray this in the praying for. And we pray this in the praying for. And we pray this in the name of the Father and the Son and the name of the Father and the Son and the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Holy Spirit. Amen. Holy Spirit. Amen. [Applause] [Music] [Music] >> If you enjoyed this episode, consider >> If you enjoyed this episode, consider >> If you enjoyed this episode, consider giving us a rating or review on iTunes. giving us a rating or review on iTunes. giving us a rating or review on iTunes. If you do, you'll help other people find If you do, you'll help other people find If you do, you'll help other people find us in the future. You can also listen to us in the future. You can also listen to us in the future. You can also listen to these episodes on YouTube. Just these episodes on YouTube. Just these episodes on YouTube. Just subscribe to the Saddleback Church subscribe to the Saddleback Church subscribe to the Saddleback Church YouTube channel for these conversations YouTube channel for these conversations YouTube channel for these conversations plus lots of other video content. And if plus lots of other video content. And if plus lots of other video content. And if you are already listening to us on you are already listening to us on you are already listening to us on YouTube, subscribe to the Doable YouTube, subscribe to the Doable YouTube, subscribe to the Doable Disciplehip Podcast on Apple Podcast or Disciplehip Podcast on Apple Podcast or Disciplehip Podcast on Apple Podcast or your favorite podcasting app so you can your favorite podcasting app so you can your favorite podcasting app so you can listen in the car or wherever else you listen in the car or wherever else you listen in the car or wherever else you go. Don't forget to visit go. Don't forget to visit go. Don't forget to visit saddleback.com/doable saddleback.com/doable saddleback.com/doable to check out all of our previous to check out all of our previous to check out all of our previous episodes. And go to saddleback.com/grow episodes. And go to saddleback.com/grow episodes. And go to saddleback.com/grow to find spiritual growth resources and to find spiritual growth resources and to find spiritual growth resources and view a calendar of upcoming events.

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