E451 Understanding the Prophets with Dr. John Walton (Rewind)

Hi friends, welcome back to Doable Hi friends, welcome back to Doable Disciplehip. My name is Jason Wheelen Disciplehip. My name is Jason Wheelen Disciplehip. My name is Jason Wheelen and today we have a little bit of a gap and today we have a little bit of a gap and today we have a little bit of a gap week. Uh we've enjoyed a couple of week. Uh we've enjoyed a couple of week. Uh we've enjoyed a couple of interviews about some new books that are interviews about some new books that are interviews about some new books that are coming out in the middle of the series coming out in the middle of the series coming out in the middle of the series that we've been in called Navigating the that we've been in called Navigating the that we've been in called Navigating the Bible and we're going to be jumping back Bible and we're going to be jumping back Bible and we're going to be jumping back into Navigating the Bible next week um into Navigating the Bible next week um into Navigating the Bible next week um with our next minor prophet. Um, but for with our next minor prophet. Um, but for with our next minor prophet. Um, but for this little gap week that we have, I this little gap week that we have, I this little gap week that we have, I wanted to uh rewind an episode uh from wanted to uh rewind an episode uh from wanted to uh rewind an episode uh from uh about almost a year and a half ago. uh about almost a year and a half ago. uh about almost a year and a half ago. Well, yeah, about exactly a year and a Well, yeah, about exactly a year and a Well, yeah, about exactly a year and a half ago now that we did that was half ago now that we did that was half ago now that we did that was covering all of the prophets. It was covering all of the prophets. It was covering all of the prophets. It was kind of an overview of the prophets as a kind of an overview of the prophets as a kind of an overview of the prophets as a genre. And that conversation was with genre. And that conversation was with genre. And that conversation was with Dr. John Walton. Dr. Walton is one of Dr. John Walton. Dr. Walton is one of Dr. John Walton. Dr. Walton is one of the most respected, renowned scholars of the most respected, renowned scholars of the most respected, renowned scholars of the Bible. And so it um it was an honor the Bible. And so it um it was an honor the Bible. And so it um it was an honor to get to talk with him uh about the to get to talk with him uh about the to get to talk with him uh about the prophets. I also had him on uh in our prophets. I also had him on uh in our prophets. I also had him on uh in our navigating the Bible series um earlier.

navigating the Bible series um earlier. navigating the Bible series um earlier. Um and so he was talking about Job. So Um and so he was talking about Job. So Um and so he was talking about Job. So if you wanted to hear him talk about the if you wanted to hear him talk about the if you wanted to hear him talk about the book of Job, we have that too. Uh but book of Job, we have that too. Uh but book of Job, we have that too. Uh but for so so for this week, I wanted to for so so for this week, I wanted to for so so for this week, I wanted to rewind that conversation talking about rewind that conversation talking about rewind that conversation talking about the prophets as a whole. It felt it felt the prophets as a whole. It felt it felt the prophets as a whole. It felt it felt good right when we're in the middle of good right when we're in the middle of good right when we're in the middle of kind of the prophets for the rest of the kind of the prophets for the rest of the kind of the prophets for the rest of the year. We're going to be going through year. We're going to be going through year. We're going to be going through the rest of the minor prophets. So, uh I the rest of the minor prophets. So, uh I the rest of the minor prophets. So, uh I am uh excited to be getting uh to finish am uh excited to be getting uh to finish am uh excited to be getting uh to finish out the Old Testament for the rest of out the Old Testament for the rest of out the Old Testament for the rest of the year. Um but for now, I hope that the year. Um but for now, I hope that the year. Um but for now, I hope that you uh enjoy this rewind conversation uh you uh enjoy this rewind conversation uh you uh enjoy this rewind conversation uh about the prophets as a genre. We talk about the prophets as a genre. We talk about the prophets as a genre. We talk about the themes that are found in these about the themes that are found in these about the themes that are found in these books. We talk about the role of books. We talk about the role of books. We talk about the role of prophets in biblical times. We talk prophets in biblical times. We talk prophets in biblical times. We talk about the parallels between the prophets about the parallels between the prophets about the parallels between the prophets and other parts of the Bible. and you and other parts of the Bible. and you and other parts of the Bible. and you know just had a great conversation with know just had a great conversation with know just had a great conversation with Dr. Walton. So um I hope that you enjoy Dr. Walton. So um I hope that you enjoy Dr. Walton. So um I hope that you enjoy this rewind doable disciplehip with John this rewind doable disciplehip with John this rewind doable disciplehip with John Walton on the prophets.

[Music] [Music] Dr. John Walton, thank you so much for Dr. John Walton, thank you so much for Dr. John Walton, thank you so much for joining me today. Truly appreciate your joining me today. Truly appreciate your joining me today. Truly appreciate your time. time. time. >> My pleasure. I enjoy the conversation. >> My pleasure. I enjoy the conversation. >> My pleasure. I enjoy the conversation. >> Oh, good. So I So today we're talking >> Oh, good. So I So today we're talking >> Oh, good. So I So today we're talking about the prophets, this section of the about the prophets, this section of the about the prophets, this section of the Old Testament with a lot of uh big books Old Testament with a lot of uh big books Old Testament with a lot of uh big books and then a lot of shorter books. And I'm and then a lot of shorter books. And I'm and then a lot of shorter books. And I'm excited to get to talk about these with excited to get to talk about these with excited to get to talk about these with you today. So as we get started, could you today. So as we get started, could you today. So as we get started, could you set the stage for us as we look at you set the stage for us as we look at you set the stage for us as we look at the prophets? So what can you tell us the prophets? So what can you tell us the prophets? So what can you tell us about the about the authors, kind of the about the about the authors, kind of the about the about the authors, kind of the time frame these books were written? time frame these books were written? time frame these books were written? What are the basic important details for What are the basic important details for What are the basic important details for anybody who maybe has never read any of anybody who maybe has never read any of anybody who maybe has never read any of these books before? What is helpful for these books before? What is helpful for these books before? What is helpful for them to kind of know as they're stepping them to kind of know as they're stepping them to kind of know as they're stepping in? in? in? >> Sure. Well, the the time frame for the >> Sure. Well, the the time frame for the >> Sure. Well, the the time frame for the prophets we have books for Yeah. uh in prophets we have books for Yeah. uh in prophets we have books for Yeah. uh in the Old Testament uh starts sort of in the Old Testament uh starts sort of in the Old Testament uh starts sort of in the early part of the 8th century BC and the early part of the 8th century BC and the early part of the 8th century BC and that'd be Amos and Hosea fit into that that'd be Amos and Hosea fit into that that'd be Amos and Hosea fit into that category and then extend all the way category and then extend all the way category and then extend all the way through uh the exile and the return u through uh the exile and the return u through uh the exile and the return u and um down into that that post- exilic and um down into that that post- exilic and um down into that that post- exilic period. So several hundred years worth period. So several hundred years worth period. So several hundred years worth of personalities. M of personalities. M of personalities. M >> so that's the the time frame that we're >> so that's the the time frame that we're >> so that's the the time frame that we're dealing with and again it starts in the dealing with and again it starts in the dealing with and again it starts in the end of the monarchy period goes through end of the monarchy period goes through end of the monarchy period goes through the exile and the post- exelic period.

the exile and the post- exelic period. the exile and the post- exelic period. Um it's interesting that you ask about Um it's interesting that you ask about Um it's interesting that you ask about authors because I think it's sort of authors because I think it's sort of authors because I think it's sort of important for us to differentiate important for us to differentiate important for us to differentiate between the prophets themselves and the between the prophets themselves and the between the prophets themselves and the authors who put their books together. authors who put their books together. authors who put their books together. >> Yeah. We have little reason to think >> Yeah. We have little reason to think >> Yeah. We have little reason to think that the prophets themselves compiled that the prophets themselves compiled that the prophets themselves compiled the books that are collections of their the books that are collections of their the books that are collections of their oracles. oracles. oracles. >> Maybe they did some of that, but for the >> Maybe they did some of that, but for the >> Maybe they did some of that, but for the most part, the prophets are speakers, most part, the prophets are speakers, most part, the prophets are speakers, not writers. not writers. not writers. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And therefore, they spoke to an >> And therefore, they spoke to an >> And therefore, they spoke to an audience. uh and sometimes in a very audience. uh and sometimes in a very audience. uh and sometimes in a very brief time span like Amos, other times brief time span like Amos, other times brief time span like Amos, other times over a whole lifetime of decades and over a whole lifetime of decades and over a whole lifetime of decades and decades like Isaiah. decades like Isaiah. decades like Isaiah. But somebody at some time gathered those But somebody at some time gathered those But somebody at some time gathered those oracles together for a different oracles together for a different oracles together for a different audience, audience, audience, >> probably still an Israelite audience, >> probably still an Israelite audience, >> probably still an Israelite audience, but perhaps at a different time period.

but perhaps at a different time period. but perhaps at a different time period. So, we don't know who the authors were. So, we don't know who the authors were. So, we don't know who the authors were. We learn all about the prophets who were We learn all about the prophets who were We learn all about the prophets who were speaking God's word into their time. speaking God's word into their time. speaking God's word into their time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But it's kind of a that multi-step >> But it's kind of a that multi-step >> But it's kind of a that multi-step process uh where we have the composition process uh where we have the composition process uh where we have the composition as in opposition to the actual oral as in opposition to the actual oral as in opposition to the actual oral presentation. presentation. presentation. Yeah, I find that fascinating and it's Yeah, I find that fascinating and it's Yeah, I find that fascinating and it's something that's important to keep in something that's important to keep in something that's important to keep in mind because a lot of people again when mind because a lot of people again when mind because a lot of people again when you are approaching the Bible you see it you are approaching the Bible you see it you are approaching the Bible you see it as this written word and so most people as this written word and so most people as this written word and so most people just assume h this was all written down just assume h this was all written down just assume h this was all written down by by these authors by these books or by by these authors by these books or by by these authors by these books or named after these people you know they named after these people you know they named after these people you know they think of it almost like just the letters think of it almost like just the letters think of it almost like just the letters of the New Testament now even even those of the New Testament now even even those of the New Testament now even even those were dictated but they're still intended were dictated but they're still intended were dictated but they're still intended to be written down whereas as you to be written down whereas as you to be written down whereas as you mentioned for prophets these were people mentioned for prophets these were people mentioned for prophets these were people who were speaking who were speaking who were speaking unto people. These were people who were unto people. These were people who were unto people. These were people who were given these messages by God who were given these messages by God who were given these messages by God who were then going and sharing these words. And then going and sharing these words. And then going and sharing these words. And as you said, some point a person had to as you said, some point a person had to as you said, some point a person had to say, "Huh, we should write these down."

say, "Huh, we should write these down." say, "Huh, we should write these down." And you know when because of our modern And you know when because of our modern And you know when because of our modern culture when we open up a book uh culture when we open up a book uh culture when we open up a book uh whether it's a novel or a biography or whether it's a novel or a biography or whether it's a novel or a biography or whatever it might be we we tend to think whatever it might be we we tend to think whatever it might be we we tend to think that that that book began by somebody that that that book began by somebody that that that book began by somebody sitting down to write a book. sitting down to write a book. sitting down to write a book. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And generally in the Old Testament and >> And generally in the Old Testament and >> And generally in the Old Testament and to some extent even in the New uh that to some extent even in the New uh that to some extent even in the New uh that that is not necessarily the case. Um the that is not necessarily the case. Um the that is not necessarily the case. Um the the book is last in the process not the book is last in the process not the book is last in the process not first. first. first. >> Yeah. But it's also such a spoken word >> Yeah. But it's also such a spoken word >> Yeah. But it's also such a spoken word culture. Everything was communicated culture. Everything was communicated culture. Everything was communicated orally that is and it was passed down by orally that is and it was passed down by orally that is and it was passed down by tradition and so it's just different for tradition and so it's just different for tradition and so it's just different for us. We don't necessarily have that that us. We don't necessarily have that that us. We don't necessarily have that that that type of culture is we don't think that type of culture is we don't think that type of culture is we don't think of histories being spoken. Now it's a of histories being spoken. Now it's a of histories being spoken. Now it's a little different now with podcast and so little different now with podcast and so little different now with podcast and so I I understand the form that I'm I I understand the form that I'm I I understand the form that I'm speaking in today but but it is just a speaking in today but but it is just a speaking in today but but it is just a different way a different um a different different way a different um a different different way a different um a different approach to how we pass along approach to how we pass along approach to how we pass along information. how we pass along tradition information. how we pass along tradition information. how we pass along tradition >> and that's true and it's possible that >> and that's true and it's possible that >> and that's true and it's possible that some people even as Isaiah was speaking some people even as Isaiah was speaking some people even as Isaiah was speaking Isaiah for instance was speaking his Isaiah for instance was speaking his Isaiah for instance was speaking his messages considered them of of messages considered them of of messages considered them of of considered them significant enough to considered them significant enough to considered them significant enough to create a document create a document create a document >> for that oracle. Um even if it was >> for that oracle. Um even if it was >> for that oracle. Um even if it was written that close to the time period written that close to the time period written that close to the time period still that's just one document with one still that's just one document with one still that's just one document with one oracle.

oracle. oracle. >> Yeah. And to create the book, somebody's >> Yeah. And to create the book, somebody's >> Yeah. And to create the book, somebody's got to go through whatever documents got to go through whatever documents got to go through whatever documents they had and what or oral traditions they had and what or oral traditions they had and what or oral traditions they had and compile those meaningfully they had and compile those meaningfully they had and compile those meaningfully >> into an organized book, which itself, >> into an organized book, which itself, >> into an organized book, which itself, the organization carries part of the the organization carries part of the the organization carries part of the message of the book. message of the book. message of the book. >> That's Oh yes, that's very true. So, so >> That's Oh yes, that's very true. So, so >> That's Oh yes, that's very true. So, so we've been talking about some of these we've been talking about some of these we've been talking about some of these prophets. We've already mentioned prophets. We've already mentioned prophets. We've already mentioned Isaiah. We've mentioned Amos. We've Isaiah. We've mentioned Amos. We've Isaiah. We've mentioned Amos. We've mentioned Hosea. mentioned Hosea. mentioned Hosea. What can you tell us about the role that What can you tell us about the role that What can you tell us about the role that prophets played in Hebrew culture at prophets played in Hebrew culture at prophets played in Hebrew culture at that time and specifically the ones that that time and specifically the ones that that time and specifically the ones that we see in the Bible but in general too? we see in the Bible but in general too? we see in the Bible but in general too? >> Yeah. And and I'm glad that you framed >> Yeah. And and I'm glad that you framed >> Yeah. And and I'm glad that you framed it that way because we do have to think it that way because we do have to think it that way because we do have to think outside of the context of the biblical outside of the context of the biblical outside of the context of the biblical books into the larger context of Israel, books into the larger context of Israel, books into the larger context of Israel, but we even have to think beyond that but we even have to think beyond that but we even have to think beyond that Israelite context to the broader ancient Israelite context to the broader ancient Israelite context to the broader ancient world. Yeah. Because of course, world. Yeah. Because of course, world. Yeah. Because of course, Israelite prophecy is not a unique Israelite prophecy is not a unique Israelite prophecy is not a unique institution. We might see a lot that's institution. We might see a lot that's institution. We might see a lot that's unique about Israelite prophecy, but the unique about Israelite prophecy, but the unique about Israelite prophecy, but the institution itself is not. Prophets institution itself is not. Prophets institution itself is not. Prophets served kings in the ancient world as served kings in the ancient world as served kings in the ancient world as part of their adviserss or more part of their adviserss or more part of their adviserss or more informally just as people who had informally just as people who had informally just as people who had visions or messages and sent them to to visions or messages and sent them to to visions or messages and sent them to to kings.

kings. kings. >> So, we have to think of that that >> So, we have to think of that that >> So, we have to think of that that outside context. The role the prophets outside context. The role the prophets outside context. The role the prophets played was as spokesperson for the played was as spokesperson for the played was as spokesperson for the deity. deity. deity. >> Again in Israel that's Yahweh of course, >> Again in Israel that's Yahweh of course, >> Again in Israel that's Yahweh of course, but in other ancient cultures they spoke but in other ancient cultures they spoke but in other ancient cultures they spoke in the names of other deities. And of in the names of other deities. And of in the names of other deities. And of course we know even in the Bible we have course we know even in the Bible we have course we know even in the Bible we have the prophets of Baal that Elijah the prophets of Baal that Elijah the prophets of Baal that Elijah confronts on Mount Carmel. So we know confronts on Mount Carmel. So we know confronts on Mount Carmel. So we know that that exists outside of the Yahweh that that exists outside of the Yahweh that that exists outside of the Yahweh context. And so the role that they context. And so the role that they context. And so the role that they played was as advisors whether formal or played was as advisors whether formal or played was as advisors whether formal or informal. We find some of the prophets informal. We find some of the prophets informal. We find some of the prophets in the Old Testament uh are actually in the Old Testament uh are actually in the Old Testament uh are actually formal advisers to the king. Again, formal advisers to the king. Again, formal advisers to the king. Again, Isaiah is a good example. We find others Isaiah is a good example. We find others Isaiah is a good example. We find others who are more or less lay people who have who are more or less lay people who have who are more or less lay people who have received the message overwhelmed by it received the message overwhelmed by it received the message overwhelmed by it and have to blurt it out. And that's and have to blurt it out. And that's and have to blurt it out. And that's Amos. And so we have that that whole Amos. And so we have that that whole Amos. And so we have that that whole mix. And so in that sense there's no no mix. And so in that sense there's no no mix. And so in that sense there's no no formal role or or I should say no role formal role or or I should say no role formal role or or I should say no role in general that's that's always the in general that's that's always the in general that's that's always the same. Uh we find the prophets same. Uh we find the prophets same. Uh we find the prophets functioning in a lot of different functioning in a lot of different functioning in a lot of different contexts and we would see differences contexts and we would see differences contexts and we would see differences outside the written prophecies uh when outside the written prophecies uh when outside the written prophecies uh when we compare somebody like Deborah to we compare somebody like Deborah to we compare somebody like Deborah to somebody like Elisha. Again, they they somebody like Elisha. Again, they they somebody like Elisha. Again, they they operate in different sorts of ways, but operate in different sorts of ways, but operate in different sorts of ways, but the common denominator is that they were the common denominator is that they were the common denominator is that they were seen as those who had messages from God seen as those who had messages from God seen as those who had messages from God that were delivered to some particular that were delivered to some particular that were delivered to some particular audience.

audience. audience. >> Yeah. I do I find it fascinating the >> Yeah. I do I find it fascinating the >> Yeah. I do I find it fascinating the different ways that God used prophets in different ways that God used prophets in different ways that God used prophets in throughout all of scripture. You have throughout all of scripture. You have throughout all of scripture. You have some that God has told, go to these some that God has told, go to these some that God has told, go to these people and deliver this message, right? people and deliver this message, right? people and deliver this message, right? Like you can think of Jonah, God, you Like you can think of Jonah, God, you Like you can think of Jonah, God, you know, go and and go and tell these know, go and and go and tell these know, go and and go and tell these people of Nineveh this message. And then people of Nineveh this message. And then people of Nineveh this message. And then you have people like Elijah who yes, you have people like Elijah who yes, you have people like Elijah who yes, have a message, but also God gave the have a message, but also God gave the have a message, but also God gave the God gave the gift to do miracles of God gave the gift to do miracles of God gave the gift to do miracles of different kinds in order to show different kinds in order to show different kinds in order to show prophecy of of God's name and who God prophecy of of God's name and who God prophecy of of God's name and who God was. And so you have these different was. And so you have these different was. And so you have these different components of what it means to be a components of what it means to be a components of what it means to be a prophet. And that idea of prophets like prophet. And that idea of prophets like prophet. And that idea of prophets like as you say it goes back a long time as as you say it goes back a long time as as you say it goes back a long time as as you can see even through the story of as you can see even through the story of as you can see even through the story of Joseph in Genesis this idea of being Joseph in Genesis this idea of being Joseph in Genesis this idea of being given dream um um telling that was given dream um um telling that was given dream um um telling that was different whereas Pharaoh you know had different whereas Pharaoh you know had different whereas Pharaoh you know had these different people who he would ask these different people who he would ask these different people who he would ask his as adviserss what do my dreams mean? his as adviserss what do my dreams mean? his as adviserss what do my dreams mean? God used Joseph to be able to speak to God used Joseph to be able to speak to God used Joseph to be able to speak to that. And so you and then you see that that. And so you and then you see that that. And so you and then you see that all the way through all the prophets all the way through all the prophets all the way through all the prophets speaking on behalf of Jesus and be speaking on behalf of Jesus and be speaking on behalf of Jesus and be having the gift of prophecy in a having the gift of prophecy in a having the gift of prophecy in a different way. So I think it's different way. So I think it's different way. So I think it's fascinating that throughout all of fascinating that throughout all of fascinating that throughout all of scripture, we see prophets and prophecy scripture, we see prophets and prophecy scripture, we see prophets and prophecy used in different ways. And in in this used in different ways. And in in this used in different ways. And in in this case, in this section of the Bible that case, in this section of the Bible that case, in this section of the Bible that we're focusing in on today, these are we're focusing in on today, these are we're focusing in on today, these are people who God has given this message people who God has given this message people who God has given this message to. Whether it's prophecy about to. Whether it's prophecy about to. Whether it's prophecy about the coming Messiah or whether it's the coming Messiah or whether it's the coming Messiah or whether it's prophecy against

prophecy against prophecy against different cities and God is saying, "I'm different cities and God is saying, "I'm different cities and God is saying, "I'm one I'm I'm using you to get my word out one I'm I'm using you to get my word out one I'm I'm using you to get my word out on behalf of me." on behalf of me." on behalf of me." >> That's exactly right. Spokespersons. And >> That's exactly right. Spokespersons. And >> That's exactly right. Spokespersons. And that that stands in contrast to our that that stands in contrast to our that that stands in contrast to our all too common modern way of thinking all too common modern way of thinking all too common modern way of thinking that somehow prophets were people who that somehow prophets were people who that somehow prophets were people who told the future. told the future. told the future. >> Yeah. And that that would be a very >> Yeah. And that that would be a very >> Yeah. And that that would be a very reductionistic, very narrow view of reductionistic, very narrow view of reductionistic, very narrow view of prophecy that doesn't begin to cover the prophecy that doesn't begin to cover the prophecy that doesn't begin to cover the wide range of the prophetic books that wide range of the prophetic books that wide range of the prophetic books that we have. we have. we have. >> You mentioned the the >> You mentioned the the >> You mentioned the the prophets of other deities in in culture prophets of other deities in in culture prophets of other deities in in culture in that time. H how did the prophets of in that time. H how did the prophets of in that time. H how did the prophets of Yahweh differ and and what was that Yahweh differ and and what was that Yahweh differ and and what was that relationship like amongst the culture relationship like amongst the culture relationship like amongst the culture between how people thought about the between how people thought about the between how people thought about the prophets of Yahweh versus the prophets prophets of Yahweh versus the prophets prophets of Yahweh versus the prophets of Baal or prophets of other deities at of Baal or prophets of other deities at of Baal or prophets of other deities at the time? the time? the time? >> Actually, there probably wouldn't have >> Actually, there probably wouldn't have >> Actually, there probably wouldn't have been a whole lot of identifiable been a whole lot of identifiable been a whole lot of identifiable differences between them. It came down differences between them. It came down differences between them. It came down to which gods you honored and which god to which gods you honored and which god to which gods you honored and which god you you wanted to hear from. But even you you wanted to hear from. But even you you wanted to hear from. But even when they were prophets uh presenting when they were prophets uh presenting when they were prophets uh presenting themselves as spokespersons for Yahweh, themselves as spokespersons for Yahweh, themselves as spokespersons for Yahweh, we find that in Jeremiah's time, for we find that in Jeremiah's time, for we find that in Jeremiah's time, for example, that created great confusion.

example, that created great confusion. example, that created great confusion. We have Jeremiah and we have Ananiah We have Jeremiah and we have Ananiah We have Jeremiah and we have Ananiah both presenting their words as the words both presenting their words as the words both presenting their words as the words of Yahweh. But they were exactly of Yahweh. But they were exactly of Yahweh. But they were exactly opposite. opposite. opposite. >> And so that left people confused. In >> And so that left people confused. In >> And so that left people confused. In fact, that was Jeremiah's complaint. fact, that was Jeremiah's complaint. fact, that was Jeremiah's complaint. Yeah. uh you need to clarify for these Yeah. uh you need to clarify for these Yeah. uh you need to clarify for these people as a true spokesperson because people as a true spokesperson because people as a true spokesperson because we're saying opposite things both in we're saying opposite things both in we're saying opposite things both in your name. So it would have been your name. So it would have been your name. So it would have been confusing for the people. Um but for the confusing for the people. Um but for the confusing for the people. Um but for the most part remember that outside the most part remember that outside the most part remember that outside the Bible it was not generally the general Bible it was not generally the general Bible it was not generally the general population who received the prophetic population who received the prophetic population who received the prophetic message. message. message. >> That's one of the unique aspects of >> That's one of the unique aspects of >> That's one of the unique aspects of biblical prophecy that they actually go biblical prophecy that they actually go biblical prophecy that they actually go out on the streets. Most prophets in the out on the streets. Most prophets in the out on the streets. Most prophets in the ancient world would have been focused on ancient world would have been focused on ancient world would have been focused on the king and his court. And then you the king and his court. And then you the king and his court. And then you don't have to think about how the don't have to think about how the don't have to think about how the general population would have received general population would have received general population would have received them. They never even heard what they them. They never even heard what they them. They never even heard what they had to say. had to say. had to say. >> Yeah, that's an interesting >> Yeah, that's an interesting >> Yeah, that's an interesting juaposition, right? Is you have you have juaposition, right? Is you have you have juaposition, right? Is you have you have the prophets that we see in the Bible the prophets that we see in the Bible the prophets that we see in the Bible where God has given this message to and where God has given this message to and where God has given this message to and it's and sometimes it's for all the it's and sometimes it's for all the it's and sometimes it's for all the people, sometimes it's for specific people, sometimes it's for specific people, sometimes it's for specific people. But then what you typically read people. But then what you typically read people. But then what you typically read about in the prophets of other deities about in the prophets of other deities about in the prophets of other deities is they're just focused on the king. In is they're just focused on the king. In is they're just focused on the king. In other words, they're kind of focused on other words, they're kind of focused on other words, they're kind of focused on who's paying them. Are you paying me to who's paying them. Are you paying me to who's paying them. Are you paying me to be a a a a spokesperson for this deity be a a a a spokesperson for this deity be a a a a spokesperson for this deity of this region? Great. I'm in.

of this region? Great. I'm in. of this region? Great. I'm in. >> Well, and sometimes they are paid. >> Well, and sometimes they are paid. >> Well, and sometimes they are paid. They're on the king's payroll, but uh we They're on the king's payroll, but uh we They're on the king's payroll, but uh we have many other examples where the have many other examples where the have many other examples where the prophet, the person offering the prophet, the person offering the prophet, the person offering the prophecy is just some prophecy is just some prophecy is just some >> Oh, sure. John Doe out in the population >> Oh, sure. John Doe out in the population >> Oh, sure. John Doe out in the population but receives a dream which is considered but receives a dream which is considered but receives a dream which is considered meaningful reports it to the local meaningful reports it to the local meaningful reports it to the local magistrate um because he doesn't want to magistrate um because he doesn't want to magistrate um because he doesn't want to be neglectful and the local magistrate be neglectful and the local magistrate be neglectful and the local magistrate not being want wanting to be neglectful not being want wanting to be neglectful not being want wanting to be neglectful sent the message to the king and we have sent the message to the king and we have sent the message to the king and we have a record of it that's showed up in a record of it that's showed up in a record of it that's showed up in excavations. So sometimes it's just excavations. So sometimes it's just excavations. So sometimes it's just common folks too. common folks too. common folks too. >> Yeah. I was given a dream. >> Yeah. I was given a dream. >> Yeah. I was given a dream. What else about the cultural context of What else about the cultural context of What else about the cultural context of this time was helpful for readers to this time was helpful for readers to this time was helpful for readers to know as as they are navigating these know as as they are navigating these know as as they are navigating these books? books? books? >> Well, there's actually um a a surprising >> Well, there's actually um a a surprising >> Well, there's actually um a a surprising feature that people should know about feature that people should know about feature that people should know about and that is that prophecy in the ancient and that is that prophecy in the ancient and that is that prophecy in the ancient world is a subcategory of divination. M world is a subcategory of divination. M world is a subcategory of divination. M >> now that strikes us really as weird >> now that strikes us really as weird >> now that strikes us really as weird because in the Bible prophecy is really because in the Bible prophecy is really because in the Bible prophecy is really a good thing and elevated and respected a good thing and elevated and respected a good thing and elevated and respected whereas divination is a real no no. We whereas divination is a real no no. We whereas divination is a real no no. We don't do that and that's not acceptable.

don't do that and that's not acceptable. don't do that and that's not acceptable. And so we tend to kind of place them on And so we tend to kind of place them on And so we tend to kind of place them on opposite sides of the spectrum. But in opposite sides of the spectrum. But in opposite sides of the spectrum. But in the ancient world that's not the case. the ancient world that's not the case. the ancient world that's not the case. Prophecy was just one of the different Prophecy was just one of the different Prophecy was just one of the different kinds of divination. Divination being kinds of divination. Divination being kinds of divination. Divination being all the different ways that you could all the different ways that you could all the different ways that you could receive messages from God. M receive messages from God. M receive messages from God. M >> so dreams are part of divination and >> so dreams are part of divination and >> so dreams are part of divination and dream interpretation is part of dream interpretation is part of dream interpretation is part of divination. Casting of lots is part of divination. Casting of lots is part of divination. Casting of lots is part of divination. Uh all kinds of of forms divination. Uh all kinds of of forms divination. Uh all kinds of of forms that they had but prophecy is one of that they had but prophecy is one of that they had but prophecy is one of them. One of the ways that people hear them. One of the ways that people hear them. One of the ways that people hear from God. So I think it's helpful for us from God. So I think it's helpful for us from God. So I think it's helpful for us to see prophecy in that larger context to see prophecy in that larger context to see prophecy in that larger context of how do we how do we hear from God? of how do we how do we hear from God? of how do we how do we hear from God? >> And that was something people desired. >> And that was something people desired. >> And that was something people desired. uh certainly kings desired uh but wasn't uh certainly kings desired uh but wasn't uh certainly kings desired uh but wasn't always forthcoming or wasn't always in always forthcoming or wasn't always in always forthcoming or wasn't always in forms that were very clear for them to forms that were very clear for them to forms that were very clear for them to understand. understand. understand. >> Yeah, that's okay. So yeah, that's a >> Yeah, that's okay. So yeah, that's a >> Yeah, that's okay. So yeah, that's a great thing to keep in mind. And I'm great thing to keep in mind. And I'm great thing to keep in mind. And I'm sure our listeners too are thinking sure our listeners too are thinking sure our listeners too are thinking about even stories from the New about even stories from the New about even stories from the New Testament where where the disciples were Testament where where the disciples were Testament where where the disciples were casting lots to see who would replace casting lots to see who would replace casting lots to see who would replace Judas in their group, you know, and as Judas in their group, you know, and as Judas in their group, you know, and as you said, it's just another way to try you said, it's just another way to try you said, it's just another way to try to hear from God in that sense to, you to hear from God in that sense to, you to hear from God in that sense to, you know, to seek his will in that way.

know, to seek his will in that way. know, to seek his will in that way. >> Sure. Remember the sailors on the boat >> Sure. Remember the sailors on the boat >> Sure. Remember the sailors on the boat with Jonah cast lots? Yeah. you know with Jonah cast lots? Yeah. you know with Jonah cast lots? Yeah. you know that that was a well-known procedure in that that was a well-known procedure in that that was a well-known procedure in the ancient world and in the Bible that the ancient world and in the Bible that the ancient world and in the Bible that was an acceptable procedure whereas was an acceptable procedure whereas was an acceptable procedure whereas other sorts like celestial divination other sorts like celestial divination other sorts like celestial divination were not acceptable were not acceptable were not acceptable >> and the main difference is whether there >> and the main difference is whether there >> and the main difference is whether there is uh the need for a human interpreter is uh the need for a human interpreter is uh the need for a human interpreter in between and that puts dreams and in between and that puts dreams and in between and that puts dreams and visions sort of in a mid zone uh that visions sort of in a mid zone uh that visions sort of in a mid zone uh that that could work well or not so well. that could work well or not so well. that could work well or not so well. >> Oh that's fascinating. Is there is there >> Oh that's fascinating. Is there is there >> Oh that's fascinating. Is there is there any is there another piece about the any is there another piece about the any is there another piece about the cultural context that you think is like cultural context that you think is like cultural context that you think is like in helpful for people as they are in helpful for people as they are in helpful for people as they are walking back into this near east time walking back into this near east time walking back into this near east time frame you know thousands of years ago. frame you know thousands of years ago. frame you know thousands of years ago. >> Sure. Uh another really big one and one >> Sure. Uh another really big one and one >> Sure. Uh another really big one and one that's hard for us to grasp is that when that's hard for us to grasp is that when that's hard for us to grasp is that when prophecies were given prophecies were given prophecies were given they weren't necessarily considered a they weren't necessarily considered a they weren't necessarily considered a sure thing. M sure thing. M sure thing. M >> they in the ancient world uh prophecies >> they in the ancient world uh prophecies >> they in the ancient world uh prophecies were sort of one possible future were sort of one possible future were sort of one possible future >> and especially in prophecies of judgment >> and especially in prophecies of judgment >> and especially in prophecies of judgment there was always this sense that if there was always this sense that if there was always this sense that if people responded it might not come about people responded it might not come about people responded it might not come about that way. We see that specifically with that way. We see that specifically with that way. We see that specifically with Jonah.

Jonah. Jonah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Where he says 40 days and destruction of >> Where he says 40 days and destruction of >> Where he says 40 days and destruction of Nineveh and and it didn't happen. the Nineveh and and it didn't happen. the Nineveh and and it didn't happen. the people responded and that's typically people responded and that's typically people responded and that's typically how it was believed in the ancient how it was believed in the ancient how it was believed in the ancient world. So, uh, a prophecy would say this world. So, uh, a prophecy would say this world. So, uh, a prophecy would say this is where things are headed. is where things are headed. is where things are headed. >> Um, but how or when or where or if those >> Um, but how or when or where or if those >> Um, but how or when or where or if those things could be altered or all things things could be altered or all things things could be altered or all things that, you know, were still up in the that, you know, were still up in the that, you know, were still up in the air. And again, we typically don't don't air. And again, we typically don't don't air. And again, we typically don't don't think about that when we read the think about that when we read the think about that when we read the prophecies in the Bible. Uh, because we prophecies in the Bible. Uh, because we prophecies in the Bible. Uh, because we think of them as sure things. in fact so think of them as sure things. in fact so think of them as sure things. in fact so sure that we build esqueological schemes sure that we build esqueological schemes sure that we build esqueological schemes on them and things of that sort. on them and things of that sort. on them and things of that sort. >> Yeah. No, I think I think that's a >> Yeah. No, I think I think that's a >> Yeah. No, I think I think that's a that's a great context because as we're that's a great context because as we're that's a great context because as we're going back to this idea of prophets going back to this idea of prophets going back to this idea of prophets being spokespeople for the deity in this being spokespeople for the deity in this being spokespeople for the deity in this case for for Yahweh. That idea of God case for for Yahweh. That idea of God case for for Yahweh. That idea of God wanting to send a message is just that wanting to send a message is just that wanting to send a message is just that is like hey people in Nineveh or hey is like hey people in Nineveh or hey is like hey people in Nineveh or hey people over here people over here like people over here people over here like people over here people over here like like if you keep going down this path if like if you keep going down this path if like if you keep going down this path if you keep not thinking about me if you you keep not thinking about me if you you keep not thinking about me if you keep forgetting everything that I've keep forgetting everything that I've keep forgetting everything that I've done for you and living the way that you done for you and living the way that you done for you and living the way that you want to live this is what it's going to want to live this is what it's going to want to live this is what it's going to look like. And so that's a lot of what look like. And so that's a lot of what look like. And so that's a lot of what we see. And and again, that's God we see. And and again, that's God we see. And and again, that's God speaking in. I I love how that's an speaking in. I I love how that's an speaking in. I I love how that's an example example example of how God cares about us. That he will of how God cares about us. That he will of how God cares about us. That he will continue to give us these warning signs.

continue to give us these warning signs. continue to give us these warning signs. He will continue to point back to us. He will continue to point back to us. He will continue to point back to us. He's he's not just standing out there He's he's not just standing out there He's he's not just standing out there being like, "Okay, I see them doing that being like, "Okay, I see them doing that being like, "Okay, I see them doing that again. Death and destruction to all." again. Death and destruction to all." again. Death and destruction to all." Like, he's like, "I'm going to get I'm Like, he's like, "I'm going to get I'm Like, he's like, "I'm going to get I'm going to I'm going to warn them. I'm going to I'm going to warn them. I'm going to I'm going to warn them. I'm going to speak in. I'm going to say going to speak in. I'm going to say going to speak in. I'm going to say something." And of course there are something." And of course there are something." And of course there are times um rare but times we see in times um rare but times we see in times um rare but times we see in scripture where God says it's done. This scripture where God says it's done. This scripture where God says it's done. This is not conditional anymore. Stop praying is not conditional anymore. Stop praying is not conditional anymore. Stop praying Jeremiah. This is going to happen. Jeremiah. This is going to happen. Jeremiah. This is going to happen. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No. And so there there does come a point >> No. And so there there does come a point >> No. And so there there does come a point of no return. of no return. of no return. >> But but I in definitely yes. But keeping >> But but I in definitely yes. But keeping >> But but I in definitely yes. But keeping that con that in mind of who God is that that con that in mind of who God is that that con that in mind of who God is that God is not changing. So God is if God is God is not changing. So God is if God is God is not changing. So God is if God is saying this is happening this it's not saying this is happening this it's not saying this is happening this it's not changing. That's the same God who does changing. That's the same God who does changing. That's the same God who does give the warnings to other people. So give the warnings to other people. So give the warnings to other people. So there is something in his justice that there is something in his justice that there is something in his justice that even though we may not understand, we even though we may not understand, we even though we may not understand, we can trust in his goodness and his can trust in his goodness and his can trust in his goodness and his justice and in how he wants things to h justice and in how he wants things to h justice and in how he wants things to h in in how he chooses to interact and in in how he chooses to interact and in in how he chooses to interact and react to to the people especially of react to to the people especially of react to to the people especially of that time and still in our own lives that time and still in our own lives that time and still in our own lives too.

too. too. >> We have a responsive God. >> We have a responsive God. >> We have a responsive God. >> We have a responsive God. I love that. >> We have a responsive God. I love that. >> We have a responsive God. I love that. And he wants us to be responsive people. And he wants us to be responsive people. And he wants us to be responsive people. >> That is >> That is >> That is >> and pro the prophets in a sense gave >> and pro the prophets in a sense gave >> and pro the prophets in a sense gave people the chance to do that. people the chance to do that. people the chance to do that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yes. Especially in in that old if it's Yes. Especially in in that old if it's Yes. Especially in in that old if it's hard to put ourselves back into that hard to put ourselves back into that hard to put ourselves back into that time frame when they had Torah but they time frame when they had Torah but they time frame when they had Torah but they didn't have the whole rest of the Bible didn't have the whole rest of the Bible didn't have the whole rest of the Bible like we do. And so they were going off like we do. And so they were going off like we do. And so they were going off of this oral tradition, this largely of this oral tradition, this largely of this oral tradition, this largely oral tradition or these people were were oral tradition or these people were were oral tradition or these people were were going to the synagogue or learning in going to the synagogue or learning in going to the synagogue or learning in this in these times in these ways. And this in these times in these ways. And this in these times in these ways. And what we know from the whole context of what we know from the whole context of what we know from the whole context of scripture through including the New scripture through including the New scripture through including the New Testament is that we have this Testament is that we have this Testament is that we have this relationship with Jesus. We have the relationship with Jesus. We have the relationship with Jesus. We have the Holy Spirit who who lives in us. We we Holy Spirit who who lives in us. We we Holy Spirit who who lives in us. We we we have all these different ways of we have all these different ways of we have all these different ways of being connected with God. And in that being connected with God. And in that being connected with God. And in that time, the way that they were connected time, the way that they were connected time, the way that they were connected with God in in some way, shape, or form with God in in some way, shape, or form with God in in some way, shape, or form was through the prophets who were giving was through the prophets who were giving was through the prophets who were giving these messages. these messages. these messages. >> And and the common denominator is that >> And and the common denominator is that >> And and the common denominator is that as we receive the gospel and hear the as we receive the gospel and hear the as we receive the gospel and hear the words of Christ and the messages of words of Christ and the messages of words of Christ and the messages of Paul, we're expected to respond.

Paul, we're expected to respond. Paul, we're expected to respond. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Respond with our lives, respond with our >> Respond with our lives, respond with our >> Respond with our lives, respond with our actions and decisions. And in that sense actions and decisions. And in that sense actions and decisions. And in that sense again the the ancient Israelite audience again the the ancient Israelite audience again the the ancient Israelite audience the purpose of prophecy was that people the purpose of prophecy was that people the purpose of prophecy was that people would respond. would respond. would respond. >> Prophecy doesn't have the purpose of >> Prophecy doesn't have the purpose of >> Prophecy doesn't have the purpose of telling the future. It has the purpose telling the future. It has the purpose telling the future. It has the purpose of ministering to the people and urging of ministering to the people and urging of ministering to the people and urging them to be responsive. them to be responsive. them to be responsive. >> I love that theme. So So I I wanted to >> I love that theme. So So I I wanted to >> I love that theme. So So I I wanted to stick on this idea of themes for a stick on this idea of themes for a stick on this idea of themes for a little bit. Right. is we talked about little bit. Right. is we talked about little bit. Right. is we talked about this responsiveness. this responsiveness. this responsiveness. What are some other themes that you see What are some other themes that you see What are some other themes that you see come across through this sec this this come across through this sec this this come across through this sec this this part of the Bible these books of the part of the Bible these books of the part of the Bible these books of the prophets and how might knowing these prophets and how might knowing these prophets and how might knowing these themes then affect how somebody might themes then affect how somebody might themes then affect how somebody might read these books now? read these books now? read these books now? >> Well, the most important theme is the >> Well, the most important theme is the >> Well, the most important theme is the covenant. uh that is I I tend to view covenant. uh that is I I tend to view covenant. uh that is I I tend to view the prophets in in Israel as champions the prophets in in Israel as champions the prophets in in Israel as champions of the covenant, guardians of the of the covenant, guardians of the of the covenant, guardians of the covenant and therefore almost all of covenant and therefore almost all of covenant and therefore almost all of their messages have to do with the their messages have to do with the their messages have to do with the covenant. Uh some of them are covenant. Uh some of them are covenant. Uh some of them are indictments and they talk about how indictments and they talk about how indictments and they talk about how Israel has violated the covenant and so Israel has violated the covenant and so Israel has violated the covenant and so this is calling them to account. Some of this is calling them to account. Some of this is calling them to account. Some of them are judgment and that's uh tied in them are judgment and that's uh tied in them are judgment and that's uh tied in closely to the covenant curses that if closely to the covenant curses that if closely to the covenant curses that if they are unfaithful to the covenant, they are unfaithful to the covenant, they are unfaithful to the covenant, these are the kinds of things that are these are the kinds of things that are these are the kinds of things that are going to happen.

going to happen. going to happen. >> The instruction that the prophets give >> The instruction that the prophets give >> The instruction that the prophets give is basically get back to the covenant, is basically get back to the covenant, is basically get back to the covenant, repent of your unfaithfulness, return to repent of your unfaithfulness, return to repent of your unfaithfulness, return to the Lord your covenant God. And then the Lord your covenant God. And then the Lord your covenant God. And then even the the sections that talk about even the the sections that talk about even the the sections that talk about the future are talking about God's the future are talking about God's the future are talking about God's faithfulness to the covenant despite faithfulness to the covenant despite faithfulness to the covenant despite Israel's unfaithfulness and how he's Israel's unfaithfulness and how he's Israel's unfaithfulness and how he's going to continue to be their covenant going to continue to be their covenant going to continue to be their covenant God and restore them as a people. So I God and restore them as a people. So I God and restore them as a people. So I in that sense the covenant is the main in that sense the covenant is the main in that sense the covenant is the main theme. theme. theme. No, I think that it helps to see that as No, I think that it helps to see that as No, I think that it helps to see that as this anchor and everything is pointing this anchor and everything is pointing this anchor and everything is pointing back to that when if if God if people back to that when if if God if people back to that when if if God if people are are going against the covenant, they are are going against the covenant, they are are going against the covenant, they are thinking they thinking and living in are thinking they thinking and living in are thinking they thinking and living in their own ways. What God is calling to their own ways. What God is calling to their own ways. What God is calling to is, hey, repent and return back to what is, hey, repent and return back to what is, hey, repent and return back to what we agreed on. I'm here. I'm I'm we agreed on. I'm here. I'm I'm we agreed on. I'm here. I'm I'm upholding my part of this relationship upholding my part of this relationship upholding my part of this relationship and I'm I'm I I am reminding you, and I'm I'm I I am reminding you, and I'm I'm I I am reminding you, friends. I mean, let's let's come back friends. I mean, let's let's come back friends. I mean, let's let's come back to this plum line. Let's come back to to this plum line. Let's come back to to this plum line. Let's come back to this this through line that we have this this through line that we have this this through line that we have agreed to through this relationship. And agreed to through this relationship. And agreed to through this relationship. And that's that's kind of the story of the that's that's kind of the story of the that's that's kind of the story of the Bible of God with people is God saying, Bible of God with people is God saying, Bible of God with people is God saying, "I'm still I'm here. I have this "I'm still I'm here. I have this "I'm still I'm here. I have this relationship with you and come back to relationship with you and come back to relationship with you and come back to me. I know you're going to go away and me. I know you're going to go away and me. I know you're going to go away and then come back. I know you're moving then come back. I know you're moving then come back. I know you're moving away. Come back." And it's just this away. Come back." And it's just this away. Come back." And it's just this constant pulling us back into alignment constant pulling us back into alignment constant pulling us back into alignment and into relationship with him.

and into relationship with him. and into relationship with him. So as a result I I think that other So as a result I I think that other So as a result I I think that other themes that we might find are typically themes that we might find are typically themes that we might find are typically sub themes. sub themes. sub themes. >> So we can talk about the theme of >> So we can talk about the theme of >> So we can talk about the theme of justice. Yeah. And a number of the justice. Yeah. And a number of the justice. Yeah. And a number of the prophets talk about that. Uh but that's prophets talk about that. Uh but that's prophets talk about that. Uh but that's because justice is built into the Torah because justice is built into the Torah because justice is built into the Torah which is defining the covenant which is defining the covenant which is defining the covenant relationship. Yeah. relationship. Yeah. relationship. Yeah. >> So of course you expect that and that's >> So of course you expect that and that's >> So of course you expect that and that's where some of their violations were. uh where some of their violations were. uh where some of their violations were. uh we see a theme of uh of Messiah of we see a theme of uh of Messiah of we see a theme of uh of Messiah of future kingship and again that fits into future kingship and again that fits into future kingship and again that fits into the covenant idea where God is their the covenant idea where God is their the covenant idea where God is their king and and he has designated a Davidic king and and he has designated a Davidic king and and he has designated a Davidic king to uh to serve under him as their king to uh to serve under him as their king to uh to serve under him as their human king. And so those kinds of themes human king. And so those kinds of themes human king. And so those kinds of themes that we see developed are generally sub that we see developed are generally sub that we see developed are generally sub themes and relate back to the covenant. themes and relate back to the covenant. themes and relate back to the covenant. >> Yeah. And >> Yeah. And >> Yeah. And those those those themes of justice and whatnot. I think themes of justice and whatnot. I think themes of justice and whatnot. I think people tend to go there immediately as people tend to go there immediately as people tend to go there immediately as they see these books and say, "Oh, this they see these books and say, "Oh, this they see these books and say, "Oh, this is God's justice on display. He is is God's justice on display. He is is God's justice on display. He is calling out these people and he is and calling out these people and he is and calling out these people and he is and and so I see that." But having that and so I see that." But having that and so I see that." But having that context of putting it of putting that context of putting it of putting that context of putting it of putting that theme in context of covenant is helpful.

theme in context of covenant is helpful. theme in context of covenant is helpful. So for anybody who's listening who maybe So for anybody who's listening who maybe So for anybody who's listening who maybe you haven't read these books of the you haven't read these books of the you haven't read these books of the prophets before prophets before prophets before go into that with this mindset of go into that with this mindset of go into that with this mindset of covenant and and what God has called us covenant and and what God has called us covenant and and what God has called us to into this relationship with him for to into this relationship with him for to into this relationship with him for through you know thousands of years and through you know thousands of years and through you know thousands of years and if you and then any other themes that if you and then any other themes that if you and then any other themes that you pick up like justice like Messiah you pick up like justice like Messiah you pick up like justice like Messiah think about them in in context of think about them in in context of think about them in in context of covenant and and see it through that covenant and and see it through that covenant and and see it through that lens. try reading it through that lens lens. try reading it through that lens lens. try reading it through that lens and see how it reads to you because it and see how it reads to you because it and see how it reads to you because it does create this fascinating does create this fascinating does create this fascinating a continuation of this story of the Old a continuation of this story of the Old a continuation of this story of the Old Testament uh which is all about you know Testament uh which is all about you know Testament uh which is all about you know it's kind it's kind of this primary it's kind it's kind of this primary it's kind it's kind of this primary theme throughout the whole scripture is theme throughout the whole scripture is theme throughout the whole scripture is covenant God's relationship with us covenant God's relationship with us covenant God's relationship with us >> that's really the the case that as we >> that's really the the case that as we >> that's really the the case that as we read the prophets uh a there's a lot to read the prophets uh a there's a lot to read the prophets uh a there's a lot to be said for being in the proper for be said for being in the proper for be said for being in the proper for mindset for what we should be expecting mindset for what we should be expecting mindset for what we should be expecting to hear. Uh you know I mentioned the to hear. Uh you know I mentioned the to hear. Uh you know I mentioned the four categories of message which is four categories of message which is four categories of message which is indictment, judgment, instruction and indictment, judgment, instruction and indictment, judgment, instruction and then restoration and we should see those then restoration and we should see those then restoration and we should see those as the the messages uh rather than just as the the messages uh rather than just as the the messages uh rather than just looking for things about the future or looking for things about the future or looking for things about the future or things about Jesus. Uh we need to look things about Jesus. Uh we need to look things about Jesus. Uh we need to look at the bigger picture to really at the bigger picture to really at the bigger picture to really understand the prophets. And we understand the prophets. And we understand the prophets. And we recognize then that the direct audience recognize then that the direct audience recognize then that the direct audience for those prophetic messages is Israel.

for those prophetic messages is Israel. for those prophetic messages is Israel. >> Um they're very targeted because Israel >> Um they're very targeted because Israel >> Um they're very targeted because Israel is God's covenant people. We are God's is God's covenant people. We are God's is God's covenant people. We are God's covenant people in a different way but covenant people in a different way but covenant people in a different way but not in that way. And in that sense the not in that way. And in that sense the not in that way. And in that sense the message is is firstly directed to them. message is is firstly directed to them. message is is firstly directed to them. And of course that's why I say things And of course that's why I say things And of course that's why I say things like the Bible is written for us but not like the Bible is written for us but not like the Bible is written for us but not to us. to us. to us. >> No that's great. So, so we've mentioned >> No that's great. So, so we've mentioned >> No that's great. So, so we've mentioned I think most of at least the major I think most of at least the major I think most of at least the major prophets, but there's one that we prophets, but there's one that we prophets, but there's one that we haven't mentioned yet, which is Ezekiel. haven't mentioned yet, which is Ezekiel. haven't mentioned yet, which is Ezekiel. So, what can you tell us about Ezekiel? So, what can you tell us about Ezekiel? So, what can you tell us about Ezekiel? >> Well, Ezekiel is a really interesting >> Well, Ezekiel is a really interesting >> Well, Ezekiel is a really interesting guy. Um, we find in Ezekiel already guy. Um, we find in Ezekiel already guy. Um, we find in Ezekiel already starting to transition into some starting to transition into some starting to transition into some apocalyptic kinds of thinking. apocalyptic kinds of thinking. apocalyptic kinds of thinking. Apocalyptic focuses on visions and Apocalyptic focuses on visions and Apocalyptic focuses on visions and dreams and symbols uh more than the dreams and symbols uh more than the dreams and symbols uh more than the earlier prophecies had. Of course, earlier prophecies had. Of course, earlier prophecies had. Of course, Ezekiel also is unusual because he's not Ezekiel also is unusual because he's not Ezekiel also is unusual because he's not in Israel. He's already been carried in Israel. He's already been carried in Israel. He's already been carried into captivity in Babylon. He's into captivity in Babylon. He's into captivity in Babylon. He's prophesying about Jerusalem, but not prophesying about Jerusalem, but not prophesying about Jerusalem, but not from Jerusalem. Um, his audience is the from Jerusalem. Um, his audience is the from Jerusalem. Um, his audience is the exiles who have been taken to Babylon.

exiles who have been taken to Babylon. exiles who have been taken to Babylon. And even though some of his visions take And even though some of his visions take And even though some of his visions take him back to Jerusalem in spirit, uh, him back to Jerusalem in spirit, uh, him back to Jerusalem in spirit, uh, he's he's not there yet. We still find he's he's not there yet. We still find he's he's not there yet. We still find him speaking in unison uh in in numerous him speaking in unison uh in in numerous him speaking in unison uh in in numerous ways with Jeremiah who is in Jerusalem ways with Jeremiah who is in Jerusalem ways with Jeremiah who is in Jerusalem during the same time period. So Ezekiel during the same time period. So Ezekiel during the same time period. So Ezekiel is an interesting guy is an interesting guy is an interesting guy >> and has but has a message that um is not >> and has but has a message that um is not >> and has but has a message that um is not unlike what the people in Jerusalem were unlike what the people in Jerusalem were unlike what the people in Jerusalem were hearing from Jeremiah. M and then for hearing from Jeremiah. M and then for hearing from Jeremiah. M and then for the minor prophets, we've mentioned a the minor prophets, we've mentioned a the minor prophets, we've mentioned a couple, but couple, but couple, but what should we know specifically about what should we know specifically about what should we know specifically about how to approach some of these minor how to approach some of these minor how to approach some of these minor prophets? These books tend to be shorter prophets? These books tend to be shorter prophets? These books tend to be shorter and they tend to be a bit specific and and they tend to be a bit specific and and they tend to be a bit specific and targeted. So, what can we know about targeted. So, what can we know about targeted. So, what can we know about some of these minor prophets that would some of these minor prophets that would some of these minor prophets that would be helpful? Well, one thing that's be helpful? Well, one thing that's be helpful? Well, one thing that's really important for us to know is from really important for us to know is from really important for us to know is from our very earliest our very earliest our very earliest literature discussing them, they are literature discussing them, they are literature discussing them, they are treated as a unit. treated as a unit. treated as a unit. >> They're called the book of the 12. We >> They're called the book of the 12. We >> They're called the book of the 12. We call them the minor prophets. Um, that's call them the minor prophets. Um, that's call them the minor prophets. Um, that's sort of a bad term because it's just sort of a bad term because it's just sort of a bad term because it's just they weren't very important. They're they weren't very important. They're they weren't very important. They're just minor, just minor, just minor, >> but they're they got labeled that >> but they're they got labeled that >> but they're they got labeled that because they're shorter.

because they're shorter. because they're shorter. >> Yeah. But they're they're not minor in >> Yeah. But they're they're not minor in >> Yeah. But they're they're not minor in their world or in their context at all. their world or in their context at all. their world or in their context at all. But in in the canon in scripture, they But in in the canon in scripture, they But in in the canon in scripture, they come in as one book, the book of the 12 come in as one book, the book of the 12 come in as one book, the book of the 12 >> in 12 parts, you know, in a sense, 12 >> in 12 parts, you know, in a sense, 12 >> in 12 parts, you know, in a sense, 12 >> sections of one book. And that means >> sections of one book. And that means >> sections of one book. And that means that when we try to read them, that when we try to read them, that when we try to read them, we should try to understand how it we should try to understand how it we should try to understand how it functions as a book. How they all functions as a book. How they all functions as a book. How they all function together. Yeah. Even though function together. Yeah. Even though function together. Yeah. Even though they span three centuries or more, they span three centuries or more, they span three centuries or more, >> they have been brought together >> they have been brought together >> they have been brought together >> in the Bible the same way that Isaiah's >> in the Bible the same way that Isaiah's >> in the Bible the same way that Isaiah's oracles have been brought together. oracles have been brought together. oracles have been brought together. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Or Jeremiah's oracles. And therefore, we >> Or Jeremiah's oracles. And therefore, we >> Or Jeremiah's oracles. And therefore, we have to think in terms of the book. have to think in terms of the book. have to think in terms of the book. that becomes a little tricky because that becomes a little tricky because that becomes a little tricky because they're very different from one another they're very different from one another they're very different from one another and again speaking to different and again speaking to different and again speaking to different audiences northern kingdom or southern audiences northern kingdom or southern audiences northern kingdom or southern kingdom pre-exilic or post- exilic and kingdom pre-exilic or post- exilic and kingdom pre-exilic or post- exilic and so we wonder what's the common so we wonder what's the common so we wonder what's the common denominator that holds them together uh denominator that holds them together uh denominator that holds them together uh we can even ask how those 12 books have we can even ask how those 12 books have we can even ask how those 12 books have been arranged in our canon yeah been arranged in our canon yeah been arranged in our canon yeah >> and does that have significance to it so >> and does that have significance to it so >> and does that have significance to it so there's a whole different set of there's a whole different set of there's a whole different set of questions uh to be asked um you know questions uh to be asked um you know questions uh to be asked um you know when we read psalms when we read psalms when we read psalms We typically encounter individual We typically encounter individual We typically encounter individual psalms. We have to recognize that psalms. We have to recognize that psalms. We have to recognize that they've been put into books. There are they've been put into books. There are they've been put into books. There are five books of psalms and they've been five books of psalms and they've been five books of psalms and they've been brought together into the book that we brought together into the book that we brought together into the book that we call the psalms. And again, the call the psalms. And again, the call the psalms. And again, the organization and the themes are

organization and the themes are organization and the themes are important. The theme of the psalter is important. The theme of the psalter is important. The theme of the psalter is the kingship of God. The theme of the the kingship of God. The theme of the the kingship of God. The theme of the book of the 12 is responsiveness. H book of the 12 is responsiveness. H book of the 12 is responsiveness. H >> Jonah smack in the middle to give this >> Jonah smack in the middle to give this >> Jonah smack in the middle to give this interesting example of people interesting example of people interesting example of people unexpectedly unexpectedly unexpectedly responding responding responding and leaves you with the idea that if God and leaves you with the idea that if God and leaves you with the idea that if God was willing to listen to these Ninevites was willing to listen to these Ninevites was willing to listen to these Ninevites as they responded in their own way at as they responded in their own way at as they responded in their own way at their own level, how much more would God their own level, how much more would God their own level, how much more would God be willing to listen to the res to the be willing to listen to the res to the be willing to listen to the res to the response of his people? And response of his people? And response of his people? And >> so we can read all 12 of those books >> so we can read all 12 of those books >> so we can read all 12 of those books together and in light of this concept of together and in light of this concept of together and in light of this concept of response. response. response. >> I love that. So I wanted to talk about >> I love that. So I wanted to talk about >> I love that. So I wanted to talk about then some parallels. What are some of then some parallels. What are some of then some parallels. What are some of the major parallels between what we see the major parallels between what we see the major parallels between what we see in the prophets and between the rest of in the prophets and between the rest of in the prophets and between the rest of the Bible? In particularly I want to the Bible? In particularly I want to the Bible? In particularly I want to touch on the New Testament because I touch on the New Testament because I touch on the New Testament because I know a lot of people a lot of people are know a lot of people a lot of people are know a lot of people a lot of people are more familiar with the New Testament more familiar with the New Testament more familiar with the New Testament than the Old Testament. So to give them than the Old Testament. So to give them than the Old Testament. So to give them some some context there and I wanted to some some context there and I wanted to some some context there and I wanted to ask it in this way too is that what ask it in this way too is that what ask it in this way too is that what knowledge of the New Testament is knowledge of the New Testament is knowledge of the New Testament is helpful to keep in mind as you read the helpful to keep in mind as you read the helpful to keep in mind as you read the prophets.

prophets. prophets. >> Well I think it's really really really >> Well I think it's really really really >> Well I think it's really really really important for us to understand what the important for us to understand what the important for us to understand what the New Testament is doing with the prophets New Testament is doing with the prophets New Testament is doing with the prophets >> uh because we tend to either not think >> uh because we tend to either not think >> uh because we tend to either not think about that or have certain assumptions about that or have certain assumptions about that or have certain assumptions that really don't can't be sustained. that really don't can't be sustained. that really don't can't be sustained. The New Testament authors are doing The New Testament authors are doing The New Testament authors are doing something very important for the most something very important for the most something very important for the most part. They are identifying fulfillment. part. They are identifying fulfillment. part. They are identifying fulfillment. >> That's their message from God. They have >> That's their message from God. They have >> That's their message from God. They have a message from God. It's a message of a message from God. It's a message of a message from God. It's a message of fulfillment. fulfillment. fulfillment. And they convey that message through And they convey that message through And they convey that message through their books to their audiences. their books to their audiences. their books to their audiences. They are not They are not They are not trying to interpret the Old Testament trying to interpret the Old Testament trying to interpret the Old Testament prophet. Mhm. prophet. Mhm. prophet. Mhm. >> Uh by interpret I'm using that fairly >> Uh by interpret I'm using that fairly >> Uh by interpret I'm using that fairly narrowly here. That is they're not narrowly here. That is they're not narrowly here. That is they're not trying to go back to the Old Testament trying to go back to the Old Testament trying to go back to the Old Testament context and say, "What did this message context and say, "What did this message context and say, "What did this message of the prophet mean to his audience, to of the prophet mean to his audience, to of the prophet mean to his audience, to the people of his day?" Um what do the the people of his day?" Um what do the the people of his day?" Um what do the Hebrew words mean? How's the literary Hebrew words mean? How's the literary Hebrew words mean? How's the literary structure set up? You know, that process structure set up? You know, that process structure set up? You know, that process of interpretation that tries to of interpretation that tries to of interpretation that tries to understand the text in context.

understand the text in context. understand the text in context. >> I call that paying attention to the >> I call that paying attention to the >> I call that paying attention to the author's intention. author's intention. author's intention. >> Sure. That is we try to understand the >> Sure. That is we try to understand the >> Sure. That is we try to understand the text in context. What did the prophet text in context. What did the prophet text in context. What did the prophet know? What did he expect his audience to know? What did he expect his audience to know? What did he expect his audience to know and respond to? That's texting know and respond to? That's texting know and respond to? That's texting context. The New Testament authors are context. The New Testament authors are context. The New Testament authors are not doing text in context. They're not not doing text in context. They're not not doing text in context. They're not even trying. even trying. even trying. >> They want to redeploy that prophet's >> They want to redeploy that prophet's >> They want to redeploy that prophet's word to their own contexts. word to their own contexts. word to their own contexts. They're not trying to reiterate that They're not trying to reiterate that They're not trying to reiterate that message that the prophet had to his message that the prophet had to his message that the prophet had to his audience. They're giving a new message. audience. They're giving a new message. audience. They're giving a new message. >> And that message is one of how this >> And that message is one of how this >> And that message is one of how this prophet's message can be seen to find prophet's message can be seen to find prophet's message can be seen to find fulfillment today. fulfillment today. fulfillment today. >> Often times in Jesus. >> Often times in Jesus. >> Often times in Jesus. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So when we look at the New >> Okay. So when we look at the New >> Okay. So when we look at the New Testament perspective, we have to keep Testament perspective, we have to keep Testament perspective, we have to keep in mind that they are not trying to tell in mind that they are not trying to tell in mind that they are not trying to tell us what the Old Testament prophet's us what the Old Testament prophet's us what the Old Testament prophet's message was. They're trying to tell us message was. They're trying to tell us message was. They're trying to tell us how that is fulfilled in their time. As how that is fulfilled in their time. As how that is fulfilled in their time. As a result, when somebody like Hosea, I'm a result, when somebody like Hosea, I'm a result, when somebody like Hosea, I'm sorry, somebody like Matthew picks up sorry, somebody like Matthew picks up sorry, somebody like Matthew picks up Hosea Hosea Hosea >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> and takes the prophecy, "Out of Egypt, I >> and takes the prophecy, "Out of Egypt, I >> and takes the prophecy, "Out of Egypt, I have called my son." Okay, that has a have called my son." Okay, that has a have called my son." Okay, that has a very specific context in Hosea and it's very specific context in Hosea and it's very specific context in Hosea and it's talking about the past and nobody prior talking about the past and nobody prior talking about the past and nobody prior to the New Testament would have said, to the New Testament would have said, to the New Testament would have said, "Oh, this is part of what Messiah is "Oh, this is part of what Messiah is "Oh, this is part of what Messiah is going to do. He's going to come out of going to do. He's going to come out of going to do. He's going to come out of Egypt." And then Matthew comes along and Egypt." And then Matthew comes along and Egypt." And then Matthew comes along and when Jesus' parents bring them out of when Jesus' parents bring them out of when Jesus' parents bring them out of Egypt, he cites Hosea 11 as fulfilled Egypt, he cites Hosea 11 as fulfilled Egypt, he cites Hosea 11 as fulfilled >> by Jesus. And we scratch our heads and >> by Jesus. And we scratch our heads and >> by Jesus. And we scratch our heads and we say, "Wow, how would anybody have we say, "Wow, how would anybody have we say, "Wow, how would anybody have gotten that? they wouldn't have. gotten that? they wouldn't have. gotten that? they wouldn't have. >> This is the message that Matthew has >> This is the message that Matthew has >> This is the message that Matthew has received about fulfillment. received about fulfillment. received about fulfillment. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That doesn't mean that we go back to >> That doesn't mean that we go back to >> That doesn't mean that we go back to Hosea and say, "Oh, Hosea was talking Hosea and say, "Oh, Hosea was talking Hosea and say, "Oh, Hosea was talking about Jesus and he didn't know it and about Jesus and he didn't know it and about Jesus and he didn't know it and none of his audience knew it, none of his audience knew it, none of his audience knew it, >> but he was because Matthew says so." No, >> but he was because Matthew says so." No, >> but he was because Matthew says so." No, Matthew does not say that. Matthew says Matthew does not say that. Matthew says Matthew does not say that. Matthew says that what Hosea said was fulfilled in that what Hosea said was fulfilled in that what Hosea said was fulfilled in Jesus. And they're different things.

Jesus. And they're different things. Jesus. And they're different things. >> That's okay. So that's so helpful for >> That's okay. So that's so helpful for >> That's okay. So that's so helpful for people to separate the idea of what the people to separate the idea of what the people to separate the idea of what the prophets were speaking to in their time, prophets were speaking to in their time, prophets were speaking to in their time, who they were talking to in their in in who they were talking to in their in in who they were talking to in their in in their time, in their audience, in those their time, in their audience, in those their time, in their audience, in those messages that God has given them. Of messages that God has given them. Of messages that God has given them. Of course, God knew that thousands of years course, God knew that thousands of years course, God knew that thousands of years later or, you know, 800 years later, later or, you know, 800 years later, later or, you know, 800 years later, whatever it was we're talking about that whatever it was we're talking about that whatever it was we're talking about that that he would be inspiring that he would be inspiring that he would be inspiring Matthew to see Hosea written in a Matthew to see Hosea written in a Matthew to see Hosea written in a different, you know, to see fulfillment different, you know, to see fulfillment different, you know, to see fulfillment in a different light. But it didn't in a different light. But it didn't in a different light. But it didn't change the fact that God was speaking to change the fact that God was speaking to change the fact that God was speaking to a specific audience in the prophets and a specific audience in the prophets and a specific audience in the prophets and that the New Testament authors were that the New Testament authors were that the New Testament authors were still in conversation with God having still in conversation with God having still in conversation with God having this this this being able to see what fulfillment means being able to see what fulfillment means being able to see what fulfillment means in a different way. Those two things in a different way. Those two things in a different way. Those two things being different yet connected. being different yet connected. being different yet connected. >> Yes. And see that speaks to what our job >> Yes. And see that speaks to what our job >> Yes. And see that speaks to what our job is. is. is. >> Our job is not to decide what God knew. >> Our job is not to decide what God knew. >> Our job is not to decide what God knew. >> That's a no-brainer. God knows >> That's a no-brainer. God knows >> That's a no-brainer. God knows everything. Okay. Done. We're finished everything. Okay. Done. We're finished everything. Okay. Done. We're finished the conversation, right? But we're the conversation, right? But we're the conversation, right? But we're interested in biblical authority.

interested in biblical authority. interested in biblical authority. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And biblical authority isn't just about >> And biblical authority isn't just about >> And biblical authority isn't just about what God knows. It's about what he what God knows. It's about what he what God knows. It's about what he communicated to people who put it in communicated to people who put it in communicated to people who put it in text. All graph, all scripture is text. All graph, all scripture is text. All graph, all scripture is inspired. And it's scriptured as inspired. And it's scriptured as inspired. And it's scriptured as authority. And that scriptur is written authority. And that scriptur is written authority. And that scriptur is written by human authors with human intentions by human authors with human intentions by human authors with human intentions that carry the authority of God vested that carry the authority of God vested that carry the authority of God vested in them. in them. in them. >> So we're interested in what the authors >> So we're interested in what the authors >> So we're interested in what the authors knew. knew. knew. >> Okay? because that's what has authority. >> Okay? because that's what has authority. >> Okay? because that's what has authority. So the message of the prophet to his So the message of the prophet to his So the message of the prophet to his people has to be understood in their people has to be understood in their people has to be understood in their time in their context. We don't want to time in their context. We don't want to time in their context. We don't want to read fulfillment back into that. We want read fulfillment back into that. We want read fulfillment back into that. We want to see how it blossoms into fulfillment. to see how it blossoms into fulfillment. to see how it blossoms into fulfillment. And so what the prophet has to say to And so what the prophet has to say to And so what the prophet has to say to his audience, regardless of what the New his audience, regardless of what the New his audience, regardless of what the New Testament has to say about it, has Testament has to say about it, has Testament has to say about it, has authority. And that stands right authority. And that stands right authority. And that stands right alongside equally with the authority of alongside equally with the authority of alongside equally with the authority of the New Testament author who identifies the New Testament author who identifies the New Testament author who identifies fulfillment for his audience. Different fulfillment for his audience. Different fulfillment for his audience. Different messages both having authority standing messages both having authority standing messages both having authority standing side by side linked by words that God side by side linked by words that God side by side linked by words that God has given.

has given. has given. I that picture of blossoming into I that picture of blossoming into I that picture of blossoming into fulfillment stood out to me because you fulfillment stood out to me because you fulfillment stood out to me because you were talking about that is is is God is were talking about that is is is God is were talking about that is is is God is is God uses time is God uses time is God uses time to in in order to fulfill the in like to in in order to fulfill the in like to in in order to fulfill the in like his message to us his commun you know his message to us his commun you know his message to us his commun you know his relationship with us and for him you his relationship with us and for him you his relationship with us and for him you know having that time span between when know having that time span between when know having that time span between when the prophets were written between the the prophets were written between the the prophets were written between the New Testament written great that's New Testament written great that's New Testament written great that's that's it's you know for us it feels that's it's you know for us it feels that's it's you know for us it feels like wow this like so much time has like wow this like so much time has like wow this like so much time has passed. These couldn't be more passed. These couldn't be more passed. These couldn't be more different. And yet for God's like, "No, different. And yet for God's like, "No, different. And yet for God's like, "No, this is my message across all of time." this is my message across all of time." this is my message across all of time." >> Well, remember that fulfillment in >> Well, remember that fulfillment in >> Well, remember that fulfillment in message is a process of connecting dots. message is a process of connecting dots. message is a process of connecting dots. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> The Old Testament prophets aren't >> The Old Testament prophets aren't >> The Old Testament prophets aren't connecting dots. They've only got one connecting dots. They've only got one connecting dots. They've only got one dot, dot, dot, >> right? The New Testament authors are >> right? The New Testament authors are >> right? The New Testament authors are connecting dots. But we have to see also connecting dots. But we have to see also connecting dots. But we have to see also that those dots, any number of dots can that those dots, any number of dots can that those dots, any number of dots can be connected in any number of ways. be connected in any number of ways. be connected in any number of ways. >> Okay? that just happens to be the one >> Okay? that just happens to be the one >> Okay? that just happens to be the one that God gave that New Testament author.

that God gave that New Testament author. that God gave that New Testament author. Yeah. There are plenty of other dots Yeah. There are plenty of other dots Yeah. There are plenty of other dots perhaps. Sure. But we only have perhaps. Sure. But we only have perhaps. Sure. But we only have authority for the ones that that are authority for the ones that that are authority for the ones that that are mentioned. Yeah. mentioned. Yeah. mentioned. Yeah. >> And so it's it's this connecting dots >> And so it's it's this connecting dots >> And so it's it's this connecting dots process. But remember that some process. But remember that some process. But remember that some prophecies are fulfilled multiple times. prophecies are fulfilled multiple times. prophecies are fulfilled multiple times. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which means there are different dots >> Which means there are different dots >> Which means there are different dots that you can connect back to that first that you can connect back to that first that you can connect back to that first dot. So we understand for instance the dot. So we understand for instance the dot. So we understand for instance the abomination of desolation. abomination of desolation. abomination of desolation. You know that's fulfilled in the 2 You know that's fulfilled in the 2 You know that's fulfilled in the 2 century BC in Antiochus Epiphanies 4th century BC in Antiochus Epiphanies 4th century BC in Antiochus Epiphanies 4th but is fulfilled again in the but is fulfilled again in the but is fulfilled again in the destruction of the Jerusalem by the destruction of the Jerusalem by the destruction of the Jerusalem by the Romans and Jesus looks forward to that Romans and Jesus looks forward to that Romans and Jesus looks forward to that one. one. one. >> And so this idea that there can be >> And so this idea that there can be >> And so this idea that there can be multiple fulfillments um makes this a multiple fulfillments um makes this a multiple fulfillments um makes this a lot more complex. It also should warn us lot more complex. It also should warn us lot more complex. It also should warn us about thinking we know exactly how to about thinking we know exactly how to about thinking we know exactly how to connect the dots. connect the dots. connect the dots. >> Stand down. >> Stand down. >> Stand down. >> That's a great point. >> That's a great point. >> That's a great point. So I I'm so excited that you have a new So I I'm so excited that you have a new So I I'm so excited that you have a new book that is coming out just around the book that is coming out just around the book that is coming out just around the time when this episode releases called time when this episode releases called time when this episode releases called the or the last world of the prophets.

the or the last world of the prophets. the or the last world of the prophets. So and I know that you've spent so much So and I know that you've spent so much So and I know that you've spent so much time and energy in studying these books. time and energy in studying these books. time and energy in studying these books. So what is maybe one thing may and more So what is maybe one thing may and more So what is maybe one thing may and more if you want but what is it one thing if you want but what is it one thing if you want but what is it one thing that you have learned about these books that you have learned about these books that you have learned about these books that you think everybody should know? that you think everybody should know? that you think everybody should know? >> Well really it's the one that we were >> Well really it's the one that we were >> Well really it's the one that we were just talking about. Oh, great. just talking about. Oh, great. just talking about. Oh, great. >> That is that prophecy and fulfillment >> That is that prophecy and fulfillment >> That is that prophecy and fulfillment are different things. are different things. are different things. >> That we should not therefore >> That we should not therefore >> That we should not therefore um only study the prophets through the um only study the prophets through the um only study the prophets through the fulfillment. fulfillment. fulfillment. >> That's only going to catch a small >> That's only going to catch a small >> That's only going to catch a small swath. There's plenty more to the swath. There's plenty more to the swath. There's plenty more to the prophets that really doesn't have prophets that really doesn't have prophets that really doesn't have anything to do with fulfillment yet is anything to do with fulfillment yet is anything to do with fulfillment yet is God's authoritative word. And even God's authoritative word. And even God's authoritative word. And even though those messages of judgment or though those messages of judgment or though those messages of judgment or indictment instruction were specifically indictment instruction were specifically indictment instruction were specifically to Israel in the covenant, we can learn to Israel in the covenant, we can learn to Israel in the covenant, we can learn from those messages what makes the heart from those messages what makes the heart from those messages what makes the heart of God tick. of God tick. of God tick. >> How how God is thinking about his >> How how God is thinking about his >> How how God is thinking about his people. And lots of those indictments, people. And lots of those indictments, people. And lots of those indictments, maybe we're not guilty of the same maybe we're not guilty of the same maybe we're not guilty of the same things, but we're probably guilty of things, but we're probably guilty of things, but we're probably guilty of similar things.

similar things. similar things. >> Yeah. Lots of those judgments were >> Yeah. Lots of those judgments were >> Yeah. Lots of those judgments were specific threats for Israel's scenario, specific threats for Israel's scenario, specific threats for Israel's scenario, but we understand how seriously God but we understand how seriously God but we understand how seriously God takes the faithfulness of his people. takes the faithfulness of his people. takes the faithfulness of his people. And so, we can learn from the messages. And so, we can learn from the messages. And so, we can learn from the messages. We don't have to just learn from the We don't have to just learn from the We don't have to just learn from the fulfillments. fulfillments. fulfillments. >> We shouldn't just be using the prophets >> We shouldn't just be using the prophets >> We shouldn't just be using the prophets to try to configure the future last to try to configure the future last to try to configure the future last times. We should be using the prophets times. We should be using the prophets times. We should be using the prophets to hear the heart of God as he addresses to hear the heart of God as he addresses to hear the heart of God as he addresses his people. message and fulfillment are his people. message and fulfillment are his people. message and fulfillment are different things. different things. different things. >> I I love that encouragement to to a as >> I I love that encouragement to to a as >> I I love that encouragement to to a as you're reading these books, these books you're reading these books, these books you're reading these books, these books of the prophets, being able to look at of the prophets, being able to look at of the prophets, being able to look at them in so many different ways, being them in so many different ways, being them in so many different ways, being able to look at them as what were what able to look at them as what were what able to look at them as what were what was God's message to Israel at that was God's message to Israel at that was God's message to Israel at that time? What was he speaking to them in time? What was he speaking to them in time? What was he speaking to them in and why and what was going on in that and why and what was going on in that and why and what was going on in that context? What was he calling them to? context? What was he calling them to? context? What was he calling them to? And then how h how do I see fulfillment And then how h how do I see fulfillment And then how h how do I see fulfillment in the New Testament through what I'm in the New Testament through what I'm in the New Testament through what I'm reading and you can read the different reading and you can read the different reading and you can read the different commentaries or the interlinears to to commentaries or the interlinears to to commentaries or the interlinears to to see where things are referenced in the see where things are referenced in the see where things are referenced in the New Testament. But to see is see that as New Testament. But to see is see that as New Testament. But to see is see that as two almost separate readings and then two almost separate readings and then two almost separate readings and then looking at it from your own like okay looking at it from your own like okay looking at it from your own like okay what am I learning about the heart of what am I learning about the heart of what am I learning about the heart of God in this and how is he still speaking God in this and how is he still speaking God in this and how is he still speaking to me through his spirit through the to me through his spirit through the to me through his spirit through the illuminated word. How am I how how is he illuminated word. How am I how how is he illuminated word. How am I how how is he speaking to even me through these books speaking to even me through these books speaking to even me through these books right now? And I just love how we can right now? And I just love how we can right now? And I just love how we can have these different approaches to this

have these different approaches to this have these different approaches to this this section of the Bible and see God's this section of the Bible and see God's this section of the Bible and see God's heart, as you said, in a different way heart, as you said, in a different way heart, as you said, in a different way than we can in some of the other than we can in some of the other than we can in some of the other sections. It's just it's it's still sections. It's just it's it's still sections. It's just it's it's still looking at God's heart. It's still looking at God's heart. It's still looking at God's heart. It's still learning from him and hearing his word, learning from him and hearing his word, learning from him and hearing his word, but in a different way. And I find that but in a different way. And I find that but in a different way. And I find that fascinating. fascinating. fascinating. I think it really opens up the prophets I think it really opens up the prophets I think it really opens up the prophets as God's word in a way that our other as God's word in a way that our other as God's word in a way that our other typical approaches uh don't do. typical approaches uh don't do. typical approaches uh don't do. >> I agree. Well, so Dr. Walton, thank you. >> I agree. Well, so Dr. Walton, thank you. >> I agree. Well, so Dr. Walton, thank you. Thank you so much for your time. Really Thank you so much for your time. Really Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate you helping us navigate this appreciate you helping us navigate this appreciate you helping us navigate this world of the prophets. world of the prophets. world of the prophets. >> Thanks, Jason. I've enjoyed the >> Thanks, Jason. I've enjoyed the >> Thanks, Jason. I've enjoyed the conversation. I hope folks have uh conversation. I hope folks have uh conversation. I hope folks have uh gotten some benefit from it.