E439 The Marriage Game Plan

This is a Saddleback Church podcast. This is a Saddleback Church podcast. >> Marriage is hard, but there is hope. >> Marriage is hard, but there is hope. >> Marriage is hard, but there is hope. Knowing that we can win and have a Knowing that we can win and have a Knowing that we can win and have a fulfilling marriage gives us the hope fulfilling marriage gives us the hope fulfilling marriage gives us the hope and and and determination to fight for what we determination to fight for what we determination to fight for what we desire every day. A successful marriage desire every day. A successful marriage desire every day. A successful marriage is not easy and requires working hard is not easy and requires working hard is not easy and requires working hard and giving 100% as individuals and as a and giving 100% as individuals and as a and giving 100% as individuals and as a couple. For two people ready and willing couple. For two people ready and willing couple. For two people ready and willing to put in the hard work and effort, to put in the hard work and effort, to put in the hard work and effort, having a game plan could change having a game plan could change having a game plan could change everything. everything. everything. That is a quote from the new book, The That is a quote from the new book, The That is a quote from the new book, The Marriage Game Plan. Marriage Game Plan. Marriage Game Plan. Marriage is an arena where it's all on Marriage is an arena where it's all on Marriage is an arena where it's all on the table. Your spouse sees the best of the table. Your spouse sees the best of the table. Your spouse sees the best of you, the worst of you, and everything in you, the worst of you, and everything in you, the worst of you, and everything in between. It's a place of partnership, between. It's a place of partnership, between. It's a place of partnership, but it's also a place of refinement. but it's also a place of refinement. but it's also a place of refinement. There's no doubt that marriage is hard, There's no doubt that marriage is hard, There's no doubt that marriage is hard, but as we heard in the opening quote, but as we heard in the opening quote, but as we heard in the opening quote, it's entirely doable if you have a game it's entirely doable if you have a game it's entirely doable if you have a game plan. My friends, George and Tandra plan. My friends, George and Tandra plan. My friends, George and Tandra Gregory are the authors of the new book, Gregory are the authors of the new book, Gregory are the authors of the new book, The Marriage Game Plan. George and The Marriage Game Plan. George and The Marriage Game Plan. George and Tandra have been on this podcast many Tandra have been on this podcast many Tandra have been on this podcast many times in the past talking about marriage times in the past talking about marriage times in the past talking about marriage and I'm excited to talk with them again and I'm excited to talk with them again and I'm excited to talk with them again today about their new book. We talk today about their new book. We talk today about their new book. We talk about why a game plan is crucial. We about why a game plan is crucial. We about why a game plan is crucial. We talk about how to navigate difficult talk about how to navigate difficult talk about how to navigate difficult conversations and how to communicate conversations and how to communicate conversations and how to communicate better. And we talk about, you know, a better. And we talk about, you know, a better. And we talk about, you know, a whole lot more. My name is Jason Wland

whole lot more. My name is Jason Wland whole lot more. My name is Jason Wland and this is a doable disciplehip. and this is a doable disciplehip. and this is a doable disciplehip. Now, my conversation with George and Now, my conversation with George and Now, my conversation with George and Tandra Gregory, George and Tandra, it is so great to be George and Tandra, it is so great to be back with you. I feel like we used to back with you. I feel like we used to back with you. I feel like we used to see each other all the time. We've done see each other all the time. We've done see each other all the time. We've done many podcast episodes together over the many podcast episodes together over the many podcast episodes together over the years, but it's been a while. So, thanks years, but it's been a while. So, thanks years, but it's been a while. So, thanks for coming back to talk about your new for coming back to talk about your new for coming back to talk about your new book, The Marriage Game Plan. That's book, The Marriage Game Plan. That's book, The Marriage Game Plan. That's super exciting. super exciting. super exciting. >> Jason, thank you for having us. Thank >> Jason, thank you for having us. Thank >> Jason, thank you for having us. Thank you so much. Yes, we're so glad to be you so much. Yes, we're so glad to be you so much. Yes, we're so glad to be back again with you in the studio. back again with you in the studio. back again with you in the studio. >> Yes, I know. Back here in the flesh in >> Yes, I know. Back here in the flesh in >> Yes, I know. Back here in the flesh in person. Um, okay. So, I want to dive person. Um, okay. So, I want to dive person. Um, okay. So, I want to dive into the book. So, the book came out on into the book. So, the book came out on into the book. So, the book came out on July 1st, so it's available now. We'll July 1st, so it's available now. We'll July 1st, so it's available now. We'll put the link in the show notes. Make put the link in the show notes. Make put the link in the show notes. Make sure to check it out. So, I want to go sure to check it out. So, I want to go sure to check it out. So, I want to go through and talk about through and talk about through and talk about >> the idea behind a marriage game plan. I >> the idea behind a marriage game plan. I >> the idea behind a marriage game plan. I know what a game plan is. As you guys know what a game plan is. As you guys know what a game plan is. As you guys know, I'm a big sports fan, particularly know, I'm a big sports fan, particularly know, I'm a big sports fan, particularly a Charger fan. So a Charger fan. So a Charger fan. So that we'll do mic that we'll do mic that we'll do mic but a game plan for marriage something.

but a game plan for marriage something. but a game plan for marriage something. So I'm glad that you're taking that idea So I'm glad that you're taking that idea So I'm glad that you're taking that idea and putting it into this arena. So I and putting it into this arena. So I and putting it into this arena. So I just you know to set us up. George, how just you know to set us up. George, how just you know to set us up. George, how do how do you take the idea of a game do how do you take the idea of a game do how do you take the idea of a game plan and transfer it to the marriage plan and transfer it to the marriage plan and transfer it to the marriage arena? arena? arena? >> Yeah. Again we all know what a game plan >> Yeah. Again we all know what a game plan >> Yeah. Again we all know what a game plan is, right? We do it for business. Maybe is, right? We do it for business. Maybe is, right? We do it for business. Maybe we do it for uh sort of like uh we do it for uh sort of like uh we do it for uh sort of like uh outlining our our affairs at home, but a outlining our our affairs at home, but a outlining our our affairs at home, but a marriage game plan is really when you marriage game plan is really when you marriage game plan is really when you can define the win, it keeps the couple can define the win, it keeps the couple can define the win, it keeps the couple going in the same direction. You see, going in the same direction. You see, going in the same direction. You see, most of us when we hit challenging most of us when we hit challenging most of us when we hit challenging times, what we want to do is sort of run times, what we want to do is sort of run times, what we want to do is sort of run helter skelter. But when you got to when helter skelter. But when you got to when helter skelter. But when you got to when you define the win, you actually say you define the win, you actually say you define the win, you actually say here's the direction that we're going here's the direction that we're going here's the direction that we're going in. And we say that because we none of in. And we say that because we none of in. And we say that because we none of us sign up to lose in marriage, right? us sign up to lose in marriage, right? us sign up to lose in marriage, right? We all sign up to win. And if we don't We all sign up to win. And if we don't We all sign up to win. And if we don't keep a vision ahead of us and that keep a vision ahead of us and that keep a vision ahead of us and that vision looks like what does it look like vision looks like what does it look like vision looks like what does it look like in 50 or 60 years or what do you want to in 50 or 60 years or what do you want to in 50 or 60 years or what do you want to leave behind as your legacy and so we leave behind as your legacy and so we leave behind as your legacy and so we teach people the first step in that is teach people the first step in that is teach people the first step in that is to define your win which keeps you going to define your win which keeps you going to define your win which keeps you going in the same direction. Why don't you in the same direction. Why don't you in the same direction. Why don't you tell them about the second part?

tell them about the second part? tell them about the second part? >> Yes. Uh, and it keeps you on the same >> Yes. Uh, and it keeps you on the same >> Yes. Uh, and it keeps you on the same page and getting on the same page is page and getting on the same page is page and getting on the same page is very critical in a marriage relationship very critical in a marriage relationship very critical in a marriage relationship because God calls us to be one and to because God calls us to be one and to because God calls us to be one and to walk one, you know, I think about that walk one, you know, I think about that walk one, you know, I think about that three-legged race, you know, that you three-legged race, you know, that you three-legged race, you know, that you did at field day when you were a kid. did at field day when you were a kid. did at field day when you were a kid. You had to learn how to run together as You had to learn how to run together as You had to learn how to run together as one. So, yeah. So, being on the same one. So, yeah. So, being on the same one. So, yeah. So, being on the same page is a part of that three-legged page is a part of that three-legged page is a part of that three-legged race, learning how to run together as a race, learning how to run together as a race, learning how to run together as a couple. Um, also you have to know who couple. Um, also you have to know who couple. Um, also you have to know who your opponents are and because even your opponents are and because even your opponents are and because even though you're one and you're on the same though you're one and you're on the same though you're one and you're on the same team, you also have to know, well, what team, you also have to know, well, what team, you also have to know, well, what things are going to come against our things are going to come against our things are going to come against our marriage and our union as as a couple. marriage and our union as as a couple. marriage and our union as as a couple. >> Yeah. And those things could be sort of >> Yeah. And those things could be sort of >> Yeah. And those things could be sort of how do you respond to when life happens? how do you respond to when life happens? how do you respond to when life happens? It could be sickness. It could be a It could be sickness. It could be a It could be sickness. It could be a change of career. It could be just change of career. It could be just change of career. It could be just you're having a bad season. Like how are you're having a bad season. Like how are you're having a bad season. Like how are you going to respond? That's your enemy you going to respond? That's your enemy you going to respond? That's your enemy some some some way. And you got to some some some way. And you got to some some some way. And you got to define how you're going to handle when define how you're going to handle when define how you're going to handle when challenges happen. And then we say set challenges happen. And then we say set challenges happen. And then we say set your goals. That's very important as a your goals. That's very important as a your goals. That's very important as a couple. Set your goals. And then lastly, couple. Set your goals. And then lastly, couple. Set your goals. And then lastly, we say once you have all that set, we say once you have all that set, we say once you have all that set, execute your game plan. Just like your execute your game plan. Just like your execute your game plan. Just like your favorite team, they they don't come in favorite team, they they don't come in favorite team, they they don't come in without a strategy. They have an without a strategy. They have an without a strategy. They have an executable game plan. And the coaches executable game plan. And the coaches executable game plan. And the coaches just want them to finish and play allin just want them to finish and play allin just want them to finish and play allin 100% of the time.

100% of the time. 100% of the time. >> Yeah. It seems like the key what we're >> Yeah. It seems like the key what we're >> Yeah. It seems like the key what we're talking about is give it the thought talking about is give it the thought talking about is give it the thought ahead of time. You know, as you said, ahead of time. You know, as you said, ahead of time. You know, as you said, like if this happens, what are we going like if this happens, what are we going like if this happens, what are we going to do? how how can we approach this? to do? how how can we approach this? to do? how how can we approach this? What and taking the time to learn about What and taking the time to learn about What and taking the time to learn about each other to especially if you're newly each other to especially if you're newly each other to especially if you're newly married and you want to learn about each married and you want to learn about each married and you want to learn about each other. How do you typically react in other. How do you typically react in other. How do you typically react in this sort of situation? this sort of situation? this sort of situation? >> Not only so that you kind of know what >> Not only so that you kind of know what >> Not only so that you kind of know what to expect, but also so you're not taken to expect, but also so you're not taken to expect, but also so you're not taken a back and then you're put on a back a back and then you're put on a back a back and then you're put on a back foot and that just makes everything a foot and that just makes everything a foot and that just makes everything a lot harder if things don't go exactly lot harder if things don't go exactly lot harder if things don't go exactly the right way. the right way. the right way. >> I think he's got it. I think you got it. >> I think he's got it. I think you got it. >> I think he's got it. I think you got it. Like the thing that we love about our Like the thing that we love about our Like the thing that we love about our book is it's not just a book, book is it's not just a book, book is it's not just a book, >> right? It's very interactive with the >> right? It's very interactive with the >> right? It's very interactive with the couple. And so I know some people are couple. And so I know some people are couple. And so I know some people are probably saying, "Wow, is it that simple probably saying, "Wow, is it that simple probably saying, "Wow, is it that simple to get a game plan?" No, it's not that to get a game plan?" No, it's not that to get a game plan?" No, it's not that simple. But when you have coaches that simple. But when you have coaches that simple. But when you have coaches that have laid it out and you really read it have laid it out and you really read it have laid it out and you really read it with the thought of how do we complete with the thought of how do we complete with the thought of how do we complete these five phases of the marriage game these five phases of the marriage game these five phases of the marriage game plan, it's really easy and it's doable. plan, it's really easy and it's doable. plan, it's really easy and it's doable. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Doable disciplehip, >> Doable disciplehip, >> Doable disciplehip, >> which is which we always love to hear. >> which is which we always love to hear. >> which is which we always love to hear. And and that's true. The book does like And and that's true. The book does like And and that's true. The book does like walk you through it. It's not just a walk you through it. It's not just a walk you through it. It's not just a bunch of bunch of bunch of >> words talking at you. It's something for >> words talking at you. It's something for >> words talking at you. It's something for you to engage with with your spouse and you to engage with with your spouse and you to engage with with your spouse and talk through okay like let's actually talk through okay like let's actually talk through okay like let's actually sit down and be intentional because the sit down and be intentional because the sit down and be intentional because the hard things can be hard and we'll get to hard things can be hard and we'll get to hard things can be hard and we'll get to some of those throughout the some of those throughout the some of those throughout the conversation. So this really helps you conversation. So this really helps you conversation. So this really helps you to get ahead of it. What's so often true to get ahead of it. What's so often true to get ahead of it. What's so often true is you get married, you're caught up in is you get married, you're caught up in is you get married, you're caught up in the honeymoon phase, you don't want to the honeymoon phase, you don't want to the honeymoon phase, you don't want to deal with the, you know, bad things that deal with the, you know, bad things that deal with the, you know, bad things that could happen. You know, maybe you did

could happen. You know, maybe you did could happen. You know, maybe you did some premarital counseling and some of some premarital counseling and some of some premarital counseling and some of that came up, but but once you get that came up, but but once you get that came up, but but once you get married, you start to kind of lose sight married, you start to kind of lose sight married, you start to kind of lose sight about that because you just want are so about that because you just want are so about that because you just want are so excited. You're focused on the on excited. You're focused on the on excited. You're focused on the on everything is good moving forward. everything is good moving forward. everything is good moving forward. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> And what this book is really saying is >> And what this book is really saying is >> And what this book is really saying is like yes, everything is good and you like yes, everything is good and you like yes, everything is good and you know how to keep it good. know how to keep it good. know how to keep it good. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> By talking through the hard thing, by >> By talking through the hard thing, by >> By talking through the hard thing, by having a plan in advance. Absolutely. having a plan in advance. Absolutely. having a plan in advance. Absolutely. >> Listen, my dad. Oh, you >> Listen, my dad. Oh, you >> Listen, my dad. Oh, you >> No. Yeah, I was going to say it, but you >> No. Yeah, I was going to say it, but you >> No. Yeah, I was going to say it, but you go ahead. go ahead. go ahead. >> Oh my god. That's what I was about to >> Oh my god. That's what I was about to >> Oh my god. That's what I was about to call. call. call. >> But that taught both of us this is that >> But that taught both of us this is that >> But that taught both of us this is that if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Meaning just have a plan of action. We >> Meaning just have a plan of action. We >> Meaning just have a plan of action. We We all know that. We all know, hey, if We all know that. We all know, hey, if We all know that. We all know, hey, if if there's a fire in the home, at least if there's a fire in the home, at least if there's a fire in the home, at least I hope so. Here's where we're going to I hope so. Here's where we're going to I hope so. Here's where we're going to meet or here's the exit door. And yet in meet or here's the exit door. And yet in meet or here's the exit door. And yet in marriage sometimes we neglect to have a marriage sometimes we neglect to have a marriage sometimes we neglect to have a marriage game plan. And we we we often marriage game plan. And we we we often marriage game plan. And we we we often say this throughout the book. It's not say this throughout the book. It's not say this throughout the book. It's not enough just to win your away game. enough just to win your away game. enough just to win your away game. That's in your career, your hobbies, That's in your career, your hobbies, That's in your career, your hobbies, your extracurricular things. But you got your extracurricular things. But you got your extracurricular things. But you got to win in your home game. That takes to win in your home game. That takes to win in your home game. That takes planning because most of us sometimes we planning because most of us sometimes we planning because most of us sometimes we go home and we're just on autopilot.

go home and we're just on autopilot. go home and we're just on autopilot. >> Yeah, I think that's ex exactly right. >> Yeah, I think that's ex exactly right. >> Yeah, I think that's ex exactly right. You just kind of get into the routine of You just kind of get into the routine of You just kind of get into the routine of life life life >> and then when the things come up, it can >> and then when the things come up, it can >> and then when the things come up, it can be that much harder. So what we're be that much harder. So what we're be that much harder. So what we're saying is it doesn't have to be. saying is it doesn't have to be. saying is it doesn't have to be. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Make the hard things just a smidgen >> Make the hard things just a smidgen >> Make the hard things just a smidgen easier easier easier >> by being on the same page together. So >> by being on the same page together. So >> by being on the same page together. So that's the idea behind the marriage game that's the idea behind the marriage game that's the idea behind the marriage game plan. So again, can't recommend it plan. So again, can't recommend it plan. So again, can't recommend it enough that you know enough that you know enough that you know walking through this book and spending walking through this book and spending walking through this book and spending some intentional time together to do it. some intentional time together to do it. some intentional time together to do it. So, you guys have been speaking on like So, you guys have been speaking on like So, you guys have been speaking on like count speaking on and counseling on count speaking on and counseling on count speaking on and counseling on marriage forever, for as long as I've marriage forever, for as long as I've marriage forever, for as long as I've known you guys, which has been a while. known you guys, which has been a while. known you guys, which has been a while. So Tandra, what is the most prominent So Tandra, what is the most prominent So Tandra, what is the most prominent issues that you say that you have seen issues that you say that you have seen issues that you say that you have seen like stifle healthy marriages that like stifle healthy marriages that like stifle healthy marriages that you've seen creep up and cause problems you've seen creep up and cause problems you've seen creep up and cause problems as you've been dealing with people as you've been dealing with people as you've been dealing with people through counseling? through counseling? through counseling? >> Yeah, absolutely. I feel like one of >> Yeah, absolutely. I feel like one of >> Yeah, absolutely. I feel like one of those issues is kind of like pride those issues is kind of like pride those issues is kind of like pride really because sometimes we get stuck in really because sometimes we get stuck in really because sometimes we get stuck in our ways and we don't want to change. I our ways and we don't want to change. I our ways and we don't want to change. I I was guilty of this when George and I I was guilty of this when George and I I was guilty of this when George and I first got married. I was like, "Don't first got married. I was like, "Don't first got married. I was like, "Don't try to change me. You knew how I was try to change me. You knew how I was try to change me. You knew how I was when you married me." You know what I'm when you married me." You know what I'm when you married me." You know what I'm saying? Just accept me as I am. And so, saying? Just accept me as I am. And so, saying? Just accept me as I am. And so, we can kind of dig our heels in about we can kind of dig our heels in about we can kind of dig our heels in about how we do things, how we're right, uh, how we do things, how we're right, uh, how we do things, how we're right, uh, about everything. And so, sometimes that about everything. And so, sometimes that about everything. And so, sometimes that prevents us from coming up with our way prevents us from coming up with our way prevents us from coming up with our way because we are so focused on my way.

because we are so focused on my way. because we are so focused on my way. >> And you have to be willing to sacrifice >> And you have to be willing to sacrifice >> And you have to be willing to sacrifice for unity to take place. each person has for unity to take place. each person has for unity to take place. each person has to sacrifice and give up their way to to sacrifice and give up their way to to sacrifice and give up their way to create our way. And I find that a lot of create our way. And I find that a lot of create our way. And I find that a lot of um couples struggle with releasing that um couples struggle with releasing that um couples struggle with releasing that and just uh it it takes that to become and just uh it it takes that to become and just uh it it takes that to become one. You can't take two uniquely one. You can't take two uniquely one. You can't take two uniquely designed by God individuals and then how designed by God individuals and then how designed by God individuals and then how do we do that and and become one, right? do we do that and and become one, right? do we do that and and become one, right? That's the challenge. And what it That's the challenge. And what it That's the challenge. And what it hinders that oneness is when we get hinders that oneness is when we get hinders that oneness is when we get stuck in our own ways and we're not stuck in our own ways and we're not stuck in our own ways and we're not willing to grow and be flexible. So I willing to grow and be flexible. So I willing to grow and be flexible. So I feel that a lot of divorce decrees uh feel that a lot of divorce decrees uh feel that a lot of divorce decrees uh you'll find that it says irreconcilable you'll find that it says irreconcilable you'll find that it says irreconcilable differences is why we're getting a differences is why we're getting a differences is why we're getting a divorce. That lets me know two people divorce. That lets me know two people divorce. That lets me know two people were not willing to move out of their were not willing to move out of their were not willing to move out of their way. They dug in pretty deep. way. They dug in pretty deep. way. They dug in pretty deep. >> Yes. Yeah. They So go ahead. >> Yes. Yeah. They So go ahead. >> Yes. Yeah. They So go ahead. >> Yeah. I think I think the the key phrase >> Yeah. I think I think the the key phrase >> Yeah. I think I think the the key phrase is that and we often say this, right, is is that and we often say this, right, is is that and we often say this, right, is it's the difference between the me it's the difference between the me it's the difference between the me versus the wei. We like to say it's versus the wei. We like to say it's versus the wei. We like to say it's about the we versus the me. And there's about the we versus the me. And there's about the we versus the me. And there's so many times that that marriages so many times that that marriages so many times that that marriages unfortunately fail because of unfortunately fail because of unfortunately fail because of selfishness. Now, we're not saying selfishness. Now, we're not saying selfishness. Now, we're not saying everybody's like that, but man, we know everybody's like that, but man, we know everybody's like that, but man, we know when we do counseling, whether it's when we do counseling, whether it's when we do counseling, whether it's across the couch or on the screen, that across the couch or on the screen, that across the couch or on the screen, that many couples uh they they're dug into I many couples uh they they're dug into I many couples uh they they're dug into I was wronged, I'm right, and I want you was wronged, I'm right, and I want you was wronged, I'm right, and I want you to only hear my side of the story. And to only hear my side of the story. And to only hear my side of the story. And so we often say that, right? Another big so we often say that, right? Another big so we often say that, right? Another big thing is differences, right? How are we thing is differences, right? How are we thing is differences, right? How are we >> different, which a lot of differences in

>> different, which a lot of differences in >> different, which a lot of differences in marriage can really pull us apart, marriage can really pull us apart, marriage can really pull us apart, right? What what what did you say Pastor right? What what what did you say Pastor right? What what what did you say Pastor Rick always said? Rick always said? Rick always said? >> Oh, yeah. Opposites attract, but then >> Oh, yeah. Opposites attract, but then >> Oh, yeah. Opposites attract, but then they attack. they attack. they attack. >> I love that. Right. Because we're so >> I love that. Right. Because we're so >> I love that. Right. Because we're so different. Sometimes we start to attack different. Sometimes we start to attack different. Sometimes we start to attack those differences or they become such those differences or they become such those differences or they become such big things in our relationship. And yet big things in our relationship. And yet big things in our relationship. And yet Tandra and I when we were first married, Tandra and I when we were first married, Tandra and I when we were first married, what we our challenge was to learn to what we our challenge was to learn to what we our challenge was to learn to accept those differences and learn how accept those differences and learn how accept those differences and learn how they compleimement you, right? And so they compleimement you, right? And so they compleimement you, right? And so Tandra is so different than I am, man. Tandra is so different than I am, man. Tandra is so different than I am, man. I'm an A type. I'm a driver. Tandra is a I'm an A type. I'm a driver. Tandra is a I'm an A type. I'm a driver. Tandra is a live in the gray and stop and smell the live in the gray and stop and smell the live in the gray and stop and smell the roses. And often when we were first roses. And often when we were first roses. And often when we were first married, we collashed. married, we collashed. married, we collashed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But now she compliments me because she >> But now she compliments me because she >> But now she compliments me because she teaches me to take vacations, to live in teaches me to take vacations, to live in teaches me to take vacations, to live in the moment when we're at dinner with the the moment when we're at dinner with the the moment when we're at dinner with the kids. And I also have been able to help kids. And I also have been able to help kids. And I also have been able to help her to have a have a plan because we her to have a have a plan because we her to have a have a plan because we wrote this book. We had to have a plan. wrote this book. We had to have a plan. wrote this book. We had to have a plan. And so we we're learning still learning And so we we're learning still learning And so we we're learning still learning to dance after 30 years of allowing our to dance after 30 years of allowing our to dance after 30 years of allowing our differences to complement each other as differences to complement each other as differences to complement each other as opposed to pull us apart. opposed to pull us apart. opposed to pull us apart. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I to me I've been on this really >> Yeah. I to me I've been on this really >> Yeah. I to me I've been on this really big kick on this word grace big kick on this word grace big kick on this word grace >> lately >> lately >> lately >> and to because to me I've been thinking >> and to because to me I've been thinking >> and to because to me I've been thinking about it a lot in in the marriage arena about it a lot in in the marriage arena about it a lot in in the marriage arena parenting and just you know doing life parenting and just you know doing life parenting and just you know doing life with other people. with other people. with other people. >> Yes. is that grace is not just, you >> Yes. is that grace is not just, you >> Yes. is that grace is not just, you know, important but necessary know, important but necessary know, important but necessary >> for any sort of healthy relationship to >> for any sort of healthy relationship to >> for any sort of healthy relationship to happen. Because happen. Because happen. Because >> like you guys were saying, like you have >> like you guys were saying, like you have >> like you guys were saying, like you have your things, you know, whether it, you your things, you know, whether it, you your things, you know, whether it, you know, whether it's your nature and know, whether it's your nature and know, whether it's your nature and nurture, all the things that made you nurture, all the things that made you nurture, all the things that made you you the way that you are. I have all the you the way that you are. I have all the you the way that you are. I have all the things that made me the way that I am. I things that made me the way that I am. I things that made me the way that I am. I have my faults. I have the things that have my faults. I have the things that have my faults. I have the things that I'm strong at. You have your faults. you I'm strong at. You have your faults. you I'm strong at. You have your faults. you have the things that you're strong in. have the things that you're strong in. have the things that you're strong in. >> Ultimately, we're all broken people >> Ultimately, we're all broken people >> Ultimately, we're all broken people >> that are, you know, saved by grace, >> that are, you know, saved by grace, >> that are, you know, saved by grace, >> but we need to have that grace with each >> but we need to have that grace with each >> but we need to have that grace with each other, knowing that we're walking other, knowing that we're walking other, knowing that we're walking through the clunkiness of life together. through the clunkiness of life together. through the clunkiness of life together. >> And so, that's where talking about it in >> And so, that's where talking about it in >> And so, that's where talking about it in advance and having, I think, a grace advance and having, I think, a grace advance and having, I think, a grace culture culture culture >> is a part of a marriage game plan, >> is a part of a marriage game plan, >> is a part of a marriage game plan, knowing that you wanting to go in grace knowing that you wanting to go in grace knowing that you wanting to go in grace first in the situation. hard things come first in the situation. hard things come first in the situation. hard things come up, we're going to have grace first for up, we're going to have grace first for up, we're going to have grace first for each other and we will figure it out each other and we will figure it out each other and we will figure it out together.

together. together. >> So grace kind of counter it kind of hits >> So grace kind of counter it kind of hits >> So grace kind of counter it kind of hits back on pride because you Yes. But pride back on pride because you Yes. But pride back on pride because you Yes. But pride is certainly the root of so many issues is certainly the root of so many issues is certainly the root of so many issues because I want it my way. I want it you because I want it my way. I want it you because I want it my way. I want it you know that stuff know that stuff know that stuff >> and it can be you as you said that's >> and it can be you as you said that's >> and it can be you as you said that's that's the whole basis behind that's the whole basis behind that's the whole basis behind >> irreconcilable differences. Mhm. >> irreconcilable differences. Mhm. >> irreconcilable differences. Mhm. >> But if you enter into with grace and be >> But if you enter into with grace and be >> But if you enter into with grace and be like, "Okay, well, let's get to the root like, "Okay, well, let's get to the root like, "Okay, well, let's get to the root of why you want it that way so much." of why you want it that way so much." of why you want it that way so much." And then where can we find the room to And then where can we find the room to And then where can we find the room to compromise together, compromise together, compromise together, >> like that's that just that I think just >> like that's that just that I think just >> like that's that just that I think just creates this allowance for this creates this allowance for this creates this allowance for this gracefilled marriage. Absolutely. It's gracefilled marriage. Absolutely. It's gracefilled marriage. Absolutely. It's going to go so far. going to go so far. going to go so far. >> I I think you just without knowing you >> I I think you just without knowing you >> I I think you just without knowing you just described me in an opposite way of just described me in an opposite way of just described me in an opposite way of how I started off in my marriage. The how I started off in my marriage. The how I started off in my marriage. The opposite of grace is perfection. opposite of grace is perfection. opposite of grace is perfection. >> Yeah. And there's rigidity in perfection >> Yeah. And there's rigidity in perfection >> Yeah. And there's rigidity in perfection because the one who or let me just say I because the one who or let me just say I because the one who or let me just say I thought I was perfect. Meaning I was thought I was perfect. Meaning I was thought I was perfect. Meaning I was there to help Tandra in our marriage. I there to help Tandra in our marriage. I there to help Tandra in our marriage. I show little grace. show little grace. show little grace. >> I'm going to sanctify you.

>> I'm going to sanctify you. >> I'm going to sanctify you. >> And that by the way this is do >> And that by the way this is do >> And that by the way this is do disciplehip. So this is what not to do disciplehip. So this is what not to do disciplehip. So this is what not to do team. Okay don't do this. team. Okay don't do this. team. Okay don't do this. >> But over the years >> But over the years >> But over the years >> I learned to be more graceful. I learned >> I learned to be more graceful. I learned >> I learned to be more graceful. I learned to sort of forgive. I learned to even to sort of forgive. I learned to even to sort of forgive. I learned to even forgive myself because I was kind of forgive myself because I was kind of forgive myself because I was kind of rigid because I thought as a husband I rigid because I thought as a husband I rigid because I thought as a husband I had to have all the answers and so I had to have all the answers and so I had to have all the answers and so I rarely said I'm sorry I made a mistake rarely said I'm sorry I made a mistake rarely said I'm sorry I made a mistake or that was the wrong tone or you're or that was the wrong tone or you're or that was the wrong tone or you're right I need to hear from you. I thought right I need to hear from you. I thought right I need to hear from you. I thought I had to be the driver the decision I had to be the driver the decision I had to be the driver the decision maker and things of that nature. But I maker and things of that nature. But I maker and things of that nature. But I think over time grace levels us all out. think over time grace levels us all out. think over time grace levels us all out. So much so that now we say So much so that now we say So much so that now we say >> we are pictures >> we are pictures >> we are pictures >> pictures of God's grace >> pictures of God's grace >> pictures of God's grace >> of God's grace our marriages because we >> of God's grace our marriages because we >> of God's grace our marriages because we started off started off started off >> in a really rough spot >> in a really rough spot >> in a really rough spot >> meaning not knowing how to be married >> meaning not knowing how to be married >> meaning not knowing how to be married but through 30 years of trying and but through 30 years of trying and but through 30 years of trying and practice which is a lot about what this practice which is a lot about what this practice which is a lot about what this book is about is we learn to be pictures book is about is we learn to be pictures book is about is we learn to be pictures of God's grace not because we get of God's grace not because we get of God's grace not because we get everything right but because we often everything right but because we often everything right but because we often fail but we fail together and we're fail but we fail together and we're fail but we fail together and we're still together we've reconciled we have still together we've reconciled we have still together we've reconciled we have redemption in our life And that's how redemption in our life And that's how redemption in our life And that's how we're pictures of God's grace.

we're pictures of God's grace. we're pictures of God's grace. >> Absolutely. And and and we created this >> Absolutely. And and and we created this >> Absolutely. And and and we created this book to be what we needed when we were book to be what we needed when we were book to be what we needed when we were going through. We just needed to learn going through. We just needed to learn going through. We just needed to learn how do you take these two people and how do you take these two people and how do you take these two people and work together as one because your work together as one because your work together as one because your backgrounds, people think your past is backgrounds, people think your past is backgrounds, people think your past is your past, but it's really your past is your past, but it's really your past is your past, but it's really your past is only your past once you understand it. only your past once you understand it. only your past once you understand it. once you bring it to your conscious mind once you bring it to your conscious mind once you bring it to your conscious mind and you can think through all the things and you can think through all the things and you can think through all the things that have shaped you, your beliefs, your that have shaped you, your beliefs, your that have shaped you, your beliefs, your experiences. And so being proactive experiences. And so being proactive experiences. And so being proactive about that is very helpful. And so about that is very helpful. And so about that is very helpful. And so that's why we wanted to give this that's why we wanted to give this that's why we wanted to give this proactive approach to getting a marriage proactive approach to getting a marriage proactive approach to getting a marriage game plan um versus a reactive approach, game plan um versus a reactive approach, game plan um versus a reactive approach, which is after we've struggled like which is after we've struggled like which is after we've struggled like George and I did and we figure it out. George and I did and we figure it out. George and I did and we figure it out. We we we started this book because we We we we started this book because we We we we started this book because we started out and we wanted to help other started out and we wanted to help other started out and we wanted to help other couples not have to learn haphazardly couples not have to learn haphazardly couples not have to learn haphazardly and in the dark about how they fit and in the dark about how they fit and in the dark about how they fit together as one. And so this this game together as one. And so this this game together as one. And so this this game plan is really to expose those areas and plan is really to expose those areas and plan is really to expose those areas and bring them to the conscious mind and let bring them to the conscious mind and let bring them to the conscious mind and let you practically know what those you practically know what those you practically know what those challenges are and get a strategy around challenges are and get a strategy around challenges are and get a strategy around those challenges. Because when we were those challenges. Because when we were those challenges. Because when we were having bumping our heads, we had no idea having bumping our heads, we had no idea having bumping our heads, we had no idea of what we were bumping up against. We of what we were bumping up against. We of what we were bumping up against. We we didn't know that was in our we didn't know that was in our we didn't know that was in our subconscious mind. By the grace of God, subconscious mind. By the grace of God, subconscious mind. By the grace of God, we were able to uncover those landmines we were able to uncover those landmines we were able to uncover those landmines and get a strategy around them.

and get a strategy around them. and get a strategy around them. >> Well, you mentioned being proactive >> Well, you mentioned being proactive >> Well, you mentioned being proactive rather than reactive, which is what rather than reactive, which is what rather than reactive, which is what we've been talking about. And that so we've been talking about. And that so we've been talking about. And that so I think it's it's there are a lot of I think it's it's there are a lot of I think it's it's there are a lot of good habits to build in a marriage. And good habits to build in a marriage. And good habits to build in a marriage. And in the marriage game plan, it talks in the marriage game plan, it talks in the marriage game plan, it talks about different things to do. Um, for about different things to do. Um, for about different things to do. Um, for those of us listening, maybe people those of us listening, maybe people those of us listening, maybe people haven't gotten the book yet, although haven't gotten the book yet, although haven't gotten the book yet, although they're going to click on the link in they're going to click on the link in they're going to click on the link in the show notes right now and and and the show notes right now and and and the show notes right now and and and order it without a doubt. But while it's order it without a doubt. But while it's order it without a doubt. But while it's waiting in transit, what is there a a waiting in transit, what is there a a waiting in transit, what is there a a habit that you think would be good to habit that you think would be good to habit that you think would be good to start right now? Is there a single habit start right now? Is there a single habit start right now? Is there a single habit that you're like if if you had to start that you're like if if you had to start that you're like if if you had to start just one thing in your marriage to to just one thing in your marriage to to just one thing in your marriage to to start you on a good path towards a start you on a good path towards a start you on a good path towards a marriage game plan? What what habit marriage game plan? What what habit marriage game plan? What what habit could a couple start right now? could a couple start right now? could a couple start right now? >> I I would say establishing good >> I I would say establishing good >> I I would say establishing good communication. Like communication is the communication. Like communication is the communication. Like communication is the lifeblood, the lifeline of your lifeblood, the lifeline of your lifeblood, the lifeline of your relationship. And maybe you grew up in a relationship. And maybe you grew up in a relationship. And maybe you grew up in a home where you didn't see a healthy way home where you didn't see a healthy way home where you didn't see a healthy way to communicate. Or maybe you grew up in to communicate. Or maybe you grew up in to communicate. Or maybe you grew up in a home where communication was not uh a home where communication was not uh a home where communication was not uh dealt with in a constructive way or dealt with in a constructive way or dealt with in a constructive way or maybe there was no communication at all.

maybe there was no communication at all. maybe there was no communication at all. But you have to learn these skills. But you have to learn these skills. But you have to learn these skills. Marriage is not something that you just Marriage is not something that you just Marriage is not something that you just know how to do. A lot of couples feel know how to do. A lot of couples feel know how to do. A lot of couples feel like, oh, we love each other and we get like, oh, we love each other and we get like, oh, we love each other and we get married and that's enough. But no, married and that's enough. But no, married and that's enough. But no, that's just the beginning. It's one that's just the beginning. It's one that's just the beginning. It's one thing to get married. It's a whole thing to get married. It's a whole thing to get married. It's a whole another thing to be married and to stay another thing to be married and to stay another thing to be married and to stay married. And a big part of evolving as a married. And a big part of evolving as a married. And a big part of evolving as a couple is learning how to communicate, couple is learning how to communicate, couple is learning how to communicate, which helps you understand each other as which helps you understand each other as which helps you understand each other as life is happening to each other. So, it life is happening to each other. So, it life is happening to each other. So, it keeps you kind of on that same page, keeps you kind of on that same page, keeps you kind of on that same page, moving in the same direction. moving in the same direction. moving in the same direction. Communication is a huge huge part of Communication is a huge huge part of Communication is a huge huge part of that. Um, and you have to constantly that. Um, and you have to constantly that. Um, and you have to constantly work on communication. George and I have work on communication. George and I have work on communication. George and I have been married almost 30 years, not 30 been married almost 30 years, not 30 been married almost 30 years, not 30 years this year. Um, and through every years this year. Um, and through every years this year. Um, and through every season we have to find new ways to season we have to find new ways to season we have to find new ways to communicate with each other and find new communicate with each other and find new communicate with each other and find new ways to kind of get on the same page. ways to kind of get on the same page. ways to kind of get on the same page. And go ahead. And go ahead. And go ahead. >> Yeah, I think you know, as I'm looking >> Yeah, I think you know, as I'm looking >> Yeah, I think you know, as I'm looking at even even on the football field, camp at even even on the football field, camp at even even on the football field, camp starts in just a few weeks and those starts in just a few weeks and those starts in just a few weeks and those guys, they communicate in a multitude of guys, they communicate in a multitude of guys, they communicate in a multitude of ways. Some of it is audibly like our ways. Some of it is audibly like our ways. Some of it is audibly like our defensive coordinator. You will hear the defensive coordinator. You will hear the defensive coordinator. You will hear the plays being called out now. I mean, plays being called out now. I mean, plays being called out now. I mean, that's a must if you're going to be on that's a must if you're going to be on that's a must if you're going to be on the defense.

the defense. the defense. >> But it's also the non-verbal >> But it's also the non-verbal >> But it's also the non-verbal communication, right? like like our team communication, right? like like our team communication, right? like like our team is is taught, look at Herbert's lips. is is taught, look at Herbert's lips. is is taught, look at Herbert's lips. Don't just listen to what he says Don't just listen to what he says Don't just listen to what he says because you might think you heard because you might think you heard because you might think you heard something, but you can't hear it from something, but you can't hear it from something, but you can't hear it from the crowd. So, watch his lips. And in the crowd. So, watch his lips. And in the crowd. So, watch his lips. And in marriage, you have to do the same thing. marriage, you have to do the same thing. marriage, you have to do the same thing. Not watch your spouse's lips. But you Not watch your spouse's lips. But you Not watch your spouse's lips. But you have to watch the verbal communication have to watch the verbal communication have to watch the verbal communication as well as the non-verbal. But I'm going as well as the non-verbal. But I'm going as well as the non-verbal. But I'm going to go deep because I know there's some to go deep because I know there's some to go deep because I know there's some people out there people out there people out there >> that are probably saying, "Man, that's >> that are probably saying, "Man, that's >> that are probably saying, "Man, that's that's just too broad." And so, I'm that's just too broad." And so, I'm that's just too broad." And so, I'm going to give them another one where I going to give them another one where I going to give them another one where I think they can start. And I'm going to think they can start. And I'm going to think they can start. And I'm going to say to be a pro listener. say to be a pro listener. say to be a pro listener. >> To be a pro listener. Why do I say pro? >> To be a pro listener. Why do I say pro? >> To be a pro listener. Why do I say pro? I say pro because as a chaplain of the I say pro because as a chaplain of the I say pro because as a chaplain of the LA Chargers, I realize this is that pros LA Chargers, I realize this is that pros LA Chargers, I realize this is that pros still practice still practice still practice >> every day. Now, some of us think we got >> every day. Now, some of us think we got >> every day. Now, some of us think we got it. We got it. I'm a good listener. No. it. We got it. I'm a good listener. No. it. We got it. I'm a good listener. No. Practice listening better. And what are Practice listening better. And what are Practice listening better. And what are you listening for? you listening for? you listening for? >> Not for the words, but the heart. go >> Not for the words, but the heart. go >> Not for the words, but the heart. go into your next season of conversations into your next season of conversations into your next season of conversations and say, "I am going to listen to my and say, "I am going to listen to my and say, "I am going to listen to my spouse's words to understand their spouse's words to understand their spouse's words to understand their heart." Not heart." Not heart." Not >> not that I'm going to be ready to say >> not that I'm going to be ready to say >> not that I'm going to be ready to say something, but my job is to understand something, but my job is to understand something, but my job is to understand their heart. And I believe we become their heart. And I believe we become their heart. And I believe we become better communicators when we understand better communicators when we understand better communicators when we understand their heart and we can articulate, I get their heart and we can articulate, I get their heart and we can articulate, I get it. Here's what you're saying. Here's it. Here's what you're saying. Here's it. Here's what you're saying. Here's how you felt. Here's how I can do how you felt. Here's how I can do how you felt. Here's how I can do something to help in that situation. And something to help in that situation. And something to help in that situation. And I think our communication will grow. And I think our communication will grow. And I think our communication will grow. And that's a habit that I think we can that's a habit that I think we can that's a habit that I think we can practice on a daily basis.

practice on a daily basis. practice on a daily basis. >> Yeah. Having those daily check-ins is >> Yeah. Having those daily check-ins is >> Yeah. Having those daily check-ins is something that you guys have talked something that you guys have talked something that you guys have talked about, too. Having these daily check-ins about, too. Having these daily check-ins about, too. Having these daily check-ins and then having time set for longer and then having time set for longer and then having time set for longer conversations that are needed, conversations that are needed, conversations that are needed, >> but that active listening where you are >> but that active listening where you are >> but that active listening where you are making eye contact. And again, it may making eye contact. And again, it may making eye contact. And again, it may sound simple, but these are good sound simple, but these are good sound simple, but these are good reminders because sometimes we don't reminders because sometimes we don't reminders because sometimes we don't realize what we're not doing or what realize what we're not doing or what realize what we're not doing or what we're doing. And so, uh, having that eye we're doing. And so, uh, having that eye we're doing. And so, uh, having that eye contact and then being able to say even contact and then being able to say even contact and then being able to say even even something as clear as, "Let me even something as clear as, "Let me even something as clear as, "Let me reiterate what I'm hearing." That's reiterate what I'm hearing." That's reiterate what I'm hearing." That's good. good. good. >> To make sure that I'm understanding, >> To make sure that I'm understanding, >> To make sure that I'm understanding, Craig, Craig, Craig, >> and a big part of it, and I want to ask >> and a big part of it, and I want to ask >> and a big part of it, and I want to ask specifically too about having difficult specifically too about having difficult specifically too about having difficult or hard conversations because you have a or hard conversations because you have a or hard conversations because you have a whole chapter on that in the book, and I whole chapter on that in the book, and I whole chapter on that in the book, and I think this kind of ties into that a bit. think this kind of ties into that a bit. think this kind of ties into that a bit. um is a lot of times the um the person your a lot of times the um the person your spouse I'll say a lot of times your spouse I'll say a lot of times your spouse I'll say a lot of times your spouse may be on the defensive may be spouse may be on the defensive may be spouse may be on the defensive may be thinking that they are put into a place thinking that they are put into a place thinking that they are put into a place where they don't feel safe in the where they don't feel safe in the where they don't feel safe in the conversation not not safe from violence conversation not not safe from violence conversation not not safe from violence or anything like that but safe as in or anything like that but safe as in or anything like that but safe as in emotionally safe emotionally safe emotionally safe >> feeling like they can uh appropriately >> feeling like they can uh appropriately >> feeling like they can uh appropriately share share share >> what they are going through or thinking >> what they are going through or thinking >> what they are going through or thinking or feeling or their thoughts about an or feeling or their thoughts about an or feeling or their thoughts about an issue or whatnot.

issue or whatnot. issue or whatnot. >> So, by having an active listener and >> So, by having an active listener and >> So, by having an active listener and creating a space where I just want to creating a space where I just want to creating a space where I just want to understand where you're coming from, I understand where you're coming from, I understand where you're coming from, I understand I want to understand where understand I want to understand where understand I want to understand where you're at because I love you you're at because I love you you're at because I love you >> and I want you to feel seen and heard. >> and I want you to feel seen and heard. >> and I want you to feel seen and heard. Now, we can still disagree and that's Now, we can still disagree and that's Now, we can still disagree and that's okay. But I want you to know that I care okay. But I want you to know that I care okay. But I want you to know that I care about what you think and what you feel. about what you think and what you feel. about what you think and what you feel. Yeah. Um because a lot of times I think Yeah. Um because a lot of times I think Yeah. Um because a lot of times I think we can dig in like the pride issue that we can dig in like the pride issue that we can dig in like the pride issue that we talked about where it's like you're we talked about where it's like you're we talked about where it's like you're wrong and here's why you're wrong and wrong and here's why you're wrong and wrong and here's why you're wrong and we're moving on with the conversation. we're moving on with the conversation. we're moving on with the conversation. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Exactly. And you know I I kind of look >> Exactly. And you know I I kind of look >> Exactly. And you know I I kind of look at that whole scenario that you just at that whole scenario that you just at that whole scenario that you just painted as coming from a position painted as coming from a position painted as coming from a position >> that even during a difficult >> that even during a difficult >> that even during a difficult conversation which we're going to jump conversation which we're going to jump conversation which we're going to jump into. into. into. >> It's more about I want to honor you >> It's more about I want to honor you >> It's more about I want to honor you >> through everything. Right. And we we >> through everything. Right. And we we >> through everything. Right. And we we want to honor God. And most of your want to honor God. And most of your want to honor God. And most of your listeners, I know, are believers, and listeners, I know, are believers, and listeners, I know, are believers, and that's a key principle, right, in living that's a key principle, right, in living that's a key principle, right, in living a purpose life. But in marriage, we a purpose life. But in marriage, we a purpose life. But in marriage, we honor our spouse. When we honor our honor our spouse. When we honor our honor our spouse. When we honor our spouse, we elevate them. And what we're spouse, we elevate them. And what we're spouse, we elevate them. And what we're saying is, I'm prioritizing you to saying is, I'm prioritizing you to saying is, I'm prioritizing you to listen to you, to listen to your heart, listen to you, to listen to your heart, listen to you, to listen to your heart, and to come out of this conversation so and to come out of this conversation so and to come out of this conversation so that I can learn more about you as that I can learn more about you as that I can learn more about you as opposed to solely just getting my needs.

opposed to solely just getting my needs. opposed to solely just getting my needs. Again, I think it's about the we versus Again, I think it's about the we versus Again, I think it's about the we versus the me. the me. the me. >> That's absolutely right. And and like >> That's absolutely right. And and like >> That's absolutely right. And and like you were just saying is hearing the you were just saying is hearing the you were just saying is hearing the heart is so important because it heart is so important because it heart is so important because it provides that safe place and it opens up provides that safe place and it opens up provides that safe place and it opens up it invites for a communication to it invites for a communication to it invites for a communication to happen. When you are defensive it shuts happen. When you are defensive it shuts happen. When you are defensive it shuts down communication from happening and so down communication from happening and so down communication from happening and so we always want to be giving an we always want to be giving an we always want to be giving an invitation to our spouse to communicate invitation to our spouse to communicate invitation to our spouse to communicate and that you want to know more about and that you want to know more about and that you want to know more about them because through life we are being them because through life we are being them because through life we are being shaped. We are evolving as people and if shaped. We are evolving as people and if shaped. We are evolving as people and if you're not evolving together then you you're not evolving together then you you're not evolving together then you are growing apart. Um and that's the are growing apart. Um and that's the are growing apart. Um and that's the saddest thing seeing a couple uh after saddest thing seeing a couple uh after saddest thing seeing a couple uh after 40 50 years of marriage getting divorced 40 50 years of marriage getting divorced 40 50 years of marriage getting divorced uh because they don't know each other uh because they don't know each other uh because they don't know each other anymore and they feel like strangers. anymore and they feel like strangers. anymore and they feel like strangers. Well, this is why we have to carve out Well, this is why we have to carve out Well, this is why we have to carve out time. There's so many demands and time. There's so many demands and time. There's so many demands and pressures on couples these days for pressures on couples these days for pressures on couples these days for communication. And so you have to communication. And so you have to communication. And so you have to prioritize and be intentional about prioritize and be intentional about prioritize and be intentional about carving out time and be inviting in carving out time and be inviting in carving out time and be inviting in those conversations because you don't those conversations because you don't those conversations because you don't know everything you need to know about know everything you need to know about know everything you need to know about your spouse because they are constantly your spouse because they are constantly your spouse because they are constantly changing. And I do think um that was changing. And I do think um that was changing. And I do think um that was something in our relationship where something in our relationship where something in our relationship where because we had been together so long at because we had been together so long at because we had been together so long at certain periods we felt like oh I certain periods we felt like oh I certain periods we felt like oh I already know what you're going to say.

already know what you're going to say. already know what you're going to say. they already know you so well that it they already know you so well that it they already know you so well that it cut off us really getting to know each cut off us really getting to know each cut off us really getting to know each other in the current season that we're other in the current season that we're other in the current season that we're in. in. in. >> Yeah, that that and that's key. So, in >> Yeah, that that and that's key. So, in >> Yeah, that that and that's key. So, in the book and and when we do our talks, the book and and when we do our talks, the book and and when we do our talks, Jason, we often say now we say have a Jason, we often say now we say have a Jason, we often say now we say have a weekly team huddle, right? And I know weekly team huddle, right? And I know weekly team huddle, right? And I know there's probably some people out there there's probably some people out there there's probably some people out there that's like, man, this book is a sports that's like, man, this book is a sports that's like, man, this book is a sports book. It's not a sports book. It's a book. It's not a sports book. It's a book. It's not a sports book. It's a marriage book, but it's it's marriage book, but it's it's marriage book, but it's it's undergurtded by sports analogies, right? undergurtded by sports analogies, right? undergurtded by sports analogies, right? And I think guys, we get it. Team And I think guys, we get it. Team And I think guys, we get it. Team huddle, what what am I saying with your huddle, what what am I saying with your huddle, what what am I saying with your spouse? grab your wife uh this week and spouse? grab your wife uh this week and spouse? grab your wife uh this week and say, "Let's have a team huddle." And say, "Let's have a team huddle." And say, "Let's have a team huddle." And it's in those moments that you create a it's in those moments that you create a it's in those moments that you create a moment where you say, "I want to listen moment where you say, "I want to listen moment where you say, "I want to listen better or I want to uh communicate better or I want to uh communicate better or I want to uh communicate something or hey, let's go on a date something or hey, let's go on a date something or hey, let's go on a date night." It's when you're gathering. And night." It's when you're gathering. And night." It's when you're gathering. And we know this in a sports way. But I'm we know this in a sports way. But I'm we know this in a sports way. But I'm telling you, if we look at some of our telling you, if we look at some of our telling you, if we look at some of our best sports themes and analogies and best sports themes and analogies and best sports themes and analogies and apply that to our marriage, I think we apply that to our marriage, I think we apply that to our marriage, I think we can win more at home. can win more at home. can win more at home. >> Well, I do want to add too because that >> Well, I do want to add too because that >> Well, I do want to add too because that is the listening side, right? But also is the listening side, right? But also is the listening side, right? But also another part of communication, effective another part of communication, effective another part of communication, effective communication is speaking, right? The communication is speaking, right? The communication is speaking, right? The talk, the speaker has to be able to talk, the speaker has to be able to talk, the speaker has to be able to articulate what it is. So you may as the articulate what it is. So you may as the articulate what it is. So you may as the speaker uh need to speaker uh need to speaker uh need to >> I think everybody knows who's the who's >> I think everybody knows who's the who's >> I think everybody knows who's the who's the listener here. Obviously, you're a the listener here. Obviously, you're a the listener here. Obviously, you're a speaker and I don't speaker and I don't speaker and I don't >> No, because it's true because I stay in >> No, because it's true because I stay in >> No, because it's true because I stay in my head and I think everything through my head and I think everything through my head and I think everything through on my own and then I just react on my on my own and then I just react on my on my own and then I just react on my own based off what I've talked to myself own based off what I've talked to myself own based off what I've talked to myself about inside my head. Right. But having

about inside my head. Right. But having about inside my head. Right. But having your spouse try to read your mind is not your spouse try to read your mind is not your spouse try to read your mind is not an effective way of communicating. an effective way of communicating. an effective way of communicating. So speaking that out and sharing what So speaking that out and sharing what So speaking that out and sharing what are you thinking what where where are are you thinking what where where are are you thinking what where where are you is is a part of that sharing uh is a you is is a part of that sharing uh is a you is is a part of that sharing uh is a part of that communication. So it's not part of that communication. So it's not part of that communication. So it's not just being an active listener but the just being an active listener but the just being an active listener but the communicator is also the person speaking communicator is also the person speaking communicator is also the person speaking as well. So making sure you speak in a as well. So making sure you speak in a as well. So making sure you speak in a way that you can be understood and you way that you can be understood and you way that you can be understood and you can be heard. It's a two-sided coin. can be heard. It's a two-sided coin. can be heard. It's a two-sided coin. >> Well, I think that brings us into the >> Well, I think that brings us into the >> Well, I think that brings us into the difficult conversation arena. You have a difficult conversation arena. You have a difficult conversation arena. You have a whole chapter on your book about how to whole chapter on your book about how to whole chapter on your book about how to have difficult conversations. And I have difficult conversations. And I have difficult conversations. And I imagine it's necessary because that's imagine it's necessary because that's imagine it's necessary because that's probably such a like one of the hardest probably such a like one of the hardest probably such a like one of the hardest parts of marriage is walking through parts of marriage is walking through parts of marriage is walking through hard conversations. Whether it's, you hard conversations. Whether it's, you hard conversations. Whether it's, you know, know, know, >> all the different stressors that life >> all the different stressors that life >> all the different stressors that life brings. You know, stuff with the kids, brings. You know, stuff with the kids, brings. You know, stuff with the kids, stuff with finances, stuff with parents, stuff with finances, stuff with parents, stuff with finances, stuff with parents, stuff with health, making big decisions, stuff with health, making big decisions, stuff with health, making big decisions, all the, you know, all these things can all the, you know, all these things can all the, you know, all these things can be hard. But everything that we were be hard. But everything that we were be hard. But everything that we were just talking about about active just talking about about active just talking about about active communication, about about listening communication, about about listening communication, about about listening skill, all those things come into play skill, all those things come into play skill, all those things come into play here, but in a heightened way, like a here, but in a heightened way, like a here, but in a heightened way, like a playoff game, if you will.

playoff game, if you will. playoff game, if you will. >> See, I can bring the sports analogy, >> See, I can bring the sports analogy, >> See, I can bring the sports analogy, too. Um, and but it also ties into what too. Um, and but it also ties into what too. Um, and but it also ties into what we were talking about with grace because we were talking about with grace because we were talking about with grace because I think that's kind of what I think that's kind of what I think that's kind of what what gets lost in what makes hard what gets lost in what makes hard what gets lost in what makes hard conversations so much harder conversations so much harder conversations so much harder >> is when you just want to get your side >> is when you just want to get your side >> is when you just want to get your side across is you already have an answer in across is you already have an answer in across is you already have an answer in mind mind mind >> and yours just want to think how can I >> and yours just want to think how can I >> and yours just want to think how can I manipulate the conversation manipulate the conversation manipulate the conversation >> to get to the answer that I want or that >> to get to the answer that I want or that >> to get to the answer that I want or that I think is best I think is best I think is best >> rather other than what I think is so uh >> rather other than what I think is so uh >> rather other than what I think is so uh important and then I I'll ask you to important and then I I'll ask you to important and then I I'll ask you to speak into this part too please is speak into this part too please is speak into this part too please is >> like >> like >> like trying to get to the deep rooted want trying to get to the deep rooted want trying to get to the deep rooted want that your spouse has or that your that your spouse has or that your that your spouse has or that your significant other has significant other has significant other has >> and say you know even if we can't fully >> and say you know even if we can't fully >> and say you know even if we can't fully meet that need right now how can we be meet that need right now how can we be meet that need right now how can we be creative in a way to meet that need creative in a way to meet that need creative in a way to meet that need >> and you know even if the answer is we >> and you know even if the answer is we >> and you know even if the answer is we can't do that or the answer is no to the can't do that or the answer is no to the can't do that or the answer is no to the dream or whatever it is like dream or whatever it is like dream or whatever it is like you got to come to that together and you got to come to that together and you got to come to that together and then figure out a way okay well what's then figure out a way okay well what's then figure out a way okay well what's the foundational need here and then how the foundational need here and then how the foundational need here and then how can we can we can we >> meet that even if we can't you know give >> meet that even if we can't you know give >> meet that even if we can't you know give the full answer that you wanted the full answer that you wanted the full answer that you wanted >> and a big part of that is that grace is >> and a big part of that is that grace is >> and a big part of that is that grace is that having to take away the pride of that having to take away the pride of that having to take away the pride of well I want what I want or I know what well I want what I want or I know what well I want what I want or I know what is best and instead is best and instead is best and instead >> understanding that people are coming

>> understanding that people are coming >> understanding that people are coming from different places of hurt or pain in from different places of hurt or pain in from different places of hurt or pain in their life. their life. their life. >> There's different things from their >> There's different things from their >> There's different things from their upbringing or their childhood or the way upbringing or their childhood or the way upbringing or their childhood or the way they grow up or or past relationships they grow up or or past relationships they grow up or or past relationships >> that are bringing him to this moment. >> that are bringing him to this moment. >> that are bringing him to this moment. They're bringing all that into the They're bringing all that into the They're bringing all that into the difficult conversation just like you're difficult conversation just like you're difficult conversation just like you're bringing all of your stuff into the bringing all of your stuff into the bringing all of your stuff into the difficult conversation. difficult conversation. difficult conversation. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> And so that's where needing to think >> And so that's where needing to think >> And so that's where needing to think ahead, have a plan, but then when you ahead, have a plan, but then when you ahead, have a plan, but then when you get to there get to there get to there >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Lead with that grace, Phil. Lead with >> Lead with that grace, Phil. Lead with >> Lead with that grace, Phil. Lead with that act of listening. Lead with that. that act of listening. Lead with that. that act of listening. Lead with that. lead with that wanting the best for the lead with that wanting the best for the lead with that wanting the best for the other person. other person. other person. >> Absolutely. And having grace for >> Absolutely. And having grace for >> Absolutely. And having grace for yourself like uh cuz that's that's what yourself like uh cuz that's that's what yourself like uh cuz that's that's what we're talking about in the um tips for we're talking about in the um tips for we're talking about in the um tips for tackling tough conversations chapter is tackling tough conversations chapter is tackling tough conversations chapter is is about sometimes we avoid having those is about sometimes we avoid having those is about sometimes we avoid having those difficult conversations because we are difficult conversations because we are difficult conversations because we are afraid of what we're going to hear or afraid of what we're going to hear or afraid of what we're going to hear or we're afraid of the outcome or we've we we're afraid of the outcome or we've we we're afraid of the outcome or we've we feel like we're in trouble. So, we don't feel like we're in trouble. So, we don't feel like we're in trouble. So, we don't want to just come and, you know, be in, want to just come and, you know, be in, want to just come and, you know, be in, you know, get the consequences if we you know, get the consequences if we you know, get the consequences if we quote unquote we feel like we're going quote unquote we feel like we're going quote unquote we feel like we're going to get. Um, and so we avoid those to get. Um, and so we avoid those to get. Um, and so we avoid those conversations. But the thing about conversations. But the thing about conversations. But the thing about difficult conversations is that if you difficult conversations is that if you difficult conversations is that if you avoid them, they will continue to grow avoid them, they will continue to grow avoid them, they will continue to grow and mount up and just become more uh and mount up and just become more uh and mount up and just become more uh convoluted and more difficult to have convoluted and more difficult to have convoluted and more difficult to have because they're they create landmines in because they're they create landmines in because they're they create landmines in your relationship where your spouse and your relationship where your spouse and your relationship where your spouse and you can get triggered around a something you can get triggered around a something you can get triggered around a something that you haven't talked through

that you haven't talked through that you haven't talked through effectively and gotten to resolution on. effectively and gotten to resolution on. effectively and gotten to resolution on. Um, and so one of our tips is that you Um, and so one of our tips is that you Um, and so one of our tips is that you have to be willing to nip it in the bud. have to be willing to nip it in the bud. have to be willing to nip it in the bud. The longer you keep putting it off, the The longer you keep putting it off, the The longer you keep putting it off, the longer is building a wall and it's longer is building a wall and it's longer is building a wall and it's creating p compounding hurts and pains creating p compounding hurts and pains creating p compounding hurts and pains on top of what's already there because on top of what's already there because on top of what's already there because now you're creating circumstances around now you're creating circumstances around now you're creating circumstances around this conversation, making it a hot topic this conversation, making it a hot topic this conversation, making it a hot topic that you need help discussing. Um and so that you need help discussing. Um and so that you need help discussing. Um and so in in our book we share a story about in in our book we share a story about in in our book we share a story about George about me actually George about me actually George about me actually getting in trouble getting in trouble getting in trouble >> about about me and how I when he went >> about about me and how I when he went >> about about me and how I when he went back to grad school um I was doing the back to grad school um I was doing the back to grad school um I was doing the finances because I was a banker at the finances because I was a banker at the finances because I was a banker at the time and and I just kept taking money time and and I just kept taking money time and and I just kept taking money out of our savings to make ends meet and out of our savings to make ends meet and out of our savings to make ends meet and I kept avoiding uh the conversation I kept avoiding uh the conversation I kept avoiding uh the conversation Because in my mind, I felt so bad. And Because in my mind, I felt so bad. And Because in my mind, I felt so bad. And this is why I say the grace for yourself this is why I say the grace for yourself this is why I say the grace for yourself has to come into play. I felt so bad. I has to come into play. I felt so bad. I has to come into play. I felt so bad. I didn't want to have that conversation. I didn't want to have that conversation. I didn't want to have that conversation. I didn't want to feel his disappointment.

didn't want to feel his disappointment. didn't want to feel his disappointment. I didn't want to feel his let down. So, I didn't want to feel his let down. So, I didn't want to feel his let down. So, I kept this from him for a long, long I kept this from him for a long, long I kept this from him for a long, long time until it we had to have the time until it we had to have the time until it we had to have the conversation because I had wiped out conversation because I had wiped out conversation because I had wiped out this. this. this. Yeah. So, this is why I say nip it in Yeah. So, this is why I say nip it in Yeah. So, this is why I say nip it in the bud because you're not going to get the bud because you're not going to get the bud because you're not going to get through. You're not going to hide this through. You're not going to hide this through. You're not going to hide this conversation. So, the sooner you can go conversation. So, the sooner you can go conversation. So, the sooner you can go ahead and have that conversation, the ahead and have that conversation, the ahead and have that conversation, the more effective the conversation can go. more effective the conversation can go. more effective the conversation can go. Um, so having grace for yourself. You Um, so having grace for yourself. You Um, so having grace for yourself. You don't have to be perfect. Um, but you do don't have to be perfect. Um, but you do don't have to be perfect. Um, but you do have to approach that conversation and have to approach that conversation and have to approach that conversation and have it and not be afraid of what might have it and not be afraid of what might have it and not be afraid of what might come out of it. come out of it. come out of it. >> Yeah. And I I think those difficult >> Yeah. And I I think those difficult >> Yeah. And I I think those difficult conversations though when you build at conversations though when you build at conversations though when you build at the foundation of trust in your the foundation of trust in your the foundation of trust in your relationship, difficult conversations relationship, difficult conversations relationship, difficult conversations can become easier actually, right? And can become easier actually, right? And can become easier actually, right? And so here's what I mean is isra and I we so here's what I mean is isra and I we so here's what I mean is isra and I we were we were having a we were getting were we were having a we were getting were we were having a we were getting ready to have a moment but she didn't ready to have a moment but she didn't ready to have a moment but she didn't know. She didn't know, right? cuz I had know. She didn't know, right? cuz I had know. She didn't know, right? cuz I had something that I needed to discuss. And something that I needed to discuss. And something that I needed to discuss. And she has often told me this over the she has often told me this over the she has often told me this over the years that this meant a lot for her.

years that this meant a lot for her. years that this meant a lot for her. >> Is that I said to her, "Hey Tandra, I >> Is that I said to her, "Hey Tandra, I >> Is that I said to her, "Hey Tandra, I need to talk to you about something." need to talk to you about something." need to talk to you about something." And she was very attentive. Hi. Yeah. And she was very attentive. Hi. Yeah. And she was very attentive. Hi. Yeah. What's up? And I said, "But it might be What's up? And I said, "But it might be What's up? And I said, "But it might be hard." hard." hard." >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And it helped her prepare for whatever I >> And it helped her prepare for whatever I >> And it helped her prepare for whatever I needed to talk about, right? And but needed to talk about, right? And but needed to talk about, right? And but that but that trust comes from I'm not that but that trust comes from I'm not that but that trust comes from I'm not going to dump on you. I'm not going to going to dump on you. I'm not going to going to dump on you. I'm not going to slam you with something or I'm not just slam you with something or I'm not just slam you with something or I'm not just going to say it in any way. I'm going to going to say it in any way. I'm going to going to say it in any way. I'm going to do it through honor. I'm going to do it do it through honor. I'm going to do it do it through honor. I'm going to do it through respect. And so I feel like a through respect. And so I feel like a through respect. And so I feel like a lot of that is really key, right, to lot of that is really key, right, to lot of that is really key, right, to having those difficult conversations. I having those difficult conversations. I having those difficult conversations. I mean, even there's been this moment of mean, even there's been this moment of mean, even there's been this moment of with with clarity and the invitation with with clarity and the invitation with with clarity and the invitation from the other spouse to say, I'm okay from the other spouse to say, I'm okay from the other spouse to say, I'm okay if we have this difficult conversation if we have this difficult conversation if we have this difficult conversation as long as it doesn't come as long as it doesn't come as long as it doesn't come >> in the middle of my movie, right? Or >> in the middle of my movie, right? Or >> in the middle of my movie, right? Or when I'm too sleepy, right? So timing is when I'm too sleepy, right? So timing is when I'm too sleepy, right? So timing is very important. But very important. But very important. But >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> I think it's the principle of when we're >> I think it's the principle of when we're >> I think it's the principle of when we're bringing those things up is to listen to bringing those things up is to listen to bringing those things up is to listen to the heart of the person and also the heart of the person and also the heart of the person and also understand that this could be a understand that this could be a understand that this could be a difficult conversation, but it's going difficult conversation, but it's going difficult conversation, but it's going to be a growth conversation. to be a growth conversation. to be a growth conversation. >> Absolutely. I love that word growth >> Absolutely. I love that word growth >> Absolutely. I love that word growth conversation and it's about reframing conversation and it's about reframing conversation and it's about reframing those conversations to be it's an those conversations to be it's an those conversations to be it's an opportunity and not so much it's opportunity and not so much it's opportunity and not so much it's difficult but it's an opportunity and difficult but it's an opportunity and difficult but it's an opportunity and anything that's worth having or anything anything that's worth having or anything anything that's worth having or anything that is rewarding is what you the work that is rewarding is what you the work that is rewarding is what you the work that you put in. You get to the other that you put in. You get to the other that you put in. You get to the other side and you're just like high five.

side and you're just like high five. side and you're just like high five. Like we had that difficult conversation Like we had that difficult conversation Like we had that difficult conversation and it went well and we feel closer and it went well and we feel closer and it went well and we feel closer because of it and now we can be on the because of it and now we can be on the because of it and now we can be on the same team and and keep facing problems same team and and keep facing problems same team and and keep facing problems and it does build that trust between the and it does build that trust between the and it does build that trust between the partners. When you can navigate um partners. When you can navigate um partners. When you can navigate um difficult conversations effectively and difficult conversations effectively and difficult conversations effectively and well then the next time a difficult well then the next time a difficult well then the next time a difficult issue comes up you feel safe enough to issue comes up you feel safe enough to issue comes up you feel safe enough to go to that person and really talk about go to that person and really talk about go to that person and really talk about that difficult issue. And and as that difficult issue. And and as that difficult issue. And and as couples, that's just a part of the couples, that's just a part of the couples, that's just a part of the course. You will have to have difficult course. You will have to have difficult course. You will have to have difficult conversations. And so that's why it's conversations. And so that's why it's conversations. And so that's why it's important to have a game plan for important to have a game plan for important to have a game plan for navigating those. navigating those. navigating those. >> Jason, one more. I'll give you one more. >> Jason, one more. I'll give you one more. >> Jason, one more. I'll give you one more. I think a lot of that is if we don't I think a lot of that is if we don't I think a lot of that is if we don't know how to have these difficult know how to have these difficult know how to have these difficult conversation is conversation is conversation is >> to find the right coach that can coach >> to find the right coach that can coach >> to find the right coach that can coach us on maybe what to say. Maybe say, us on maybe what to say. Maybe say, us on maybe what to say. Maybe say, "Hey, don't say that. That's a crazy "Hey, don't say that. That's a crazy "Hey, don't say that. That's a crazy thing to say, right?" But it's us asking thing to say, right?" But it's us asking thing to say, right?" But it's us asking the right questions. We often say, the right questions. We often say, the right questions. We often say, "Don't die in a sea of lifeguards." "Don't die in a sea of lifeguards." "Don't die in a sea of lifeguards." There's so much help out here for There's so much help out here for There's so much help out here for marriage, right? You can look at our marriage, right? You can look at our marriage, right? You can look at our resource. You can look at tons of other resource. You can look at tons of other resource. You can look at tons of other resources or pastoral counseling or resources or pastoral counseling or resources or pastoral counseling or things of advice from a parent or a things of advice from a parent or a things of advice from a parent or a husband or a wife that's just two years husband or a wife that's just two years husband or a wife that's just two years ahead of you ahead of you ahead of you >> is ask the right questions. I need some >> is ask the right questions. I need some >> is ask the right questions. I need some help. In fact, I think I'm going to help. In fact, I think I'm going to help. In fact, I think I'm going to start a new website called helpro.com.

start a new website called helpro.com. start a new website called helpro.com. >> helpro.com. >> helpro.com. >> helpro.com. >> I love it. >> I love it. >> I love it. >> If it's not trademarked already, let's >> If it's not trademarked already, let's >> If it's not trademarked already, let's trademark it right now. trademark it right now. trademark it right now. >> Love it. And also I I just want to add >> Love it. And also I I just want to add >> Love it. And also I I just want to add to it like um you know don't go into the to it like um you know don't go into the to it like um you know don't go into the conversation a hard conversation if conversation a hard conversation if conversation a hard conversation if you're the one having to start the you're the one having to start the you're the one having to start the conversation. You know like you said conversation. You know like you said conversation. You know like you said George we need to talk and it might be George we need to talk and it might be George we need to talk and it might be hard or something like that. Pray for hard or something like that. Pray for hard or something like that. Pray for >> make sure that you have uh you know >> make sure that you have uh you know >> make sure that you have uh you know entered into prayer beforehand. Invite entered into prayer beforehand. Invite entered into prayer beforehand. Invite God into that and just because and just God into that and just because and just God into that and just because and just say God this is I I'm I'm nervous. Be say God this is I I'm I'm nervous. Be say God this is I I'm I'm nervous. Be upfront and honest with God. I'm upfront and honest with God. I'm upfront and honest with God. I'm nervous. I don't know why I tr like I nervous. I don't know why I tr like I nervous. I don't know why I tr like I love my wife. I love this person. This love my wife. I love this person. This love my wife. I love this person. This person loves me. We're going to be okay. person loves me. We're going to be okay. person loves me. We're going to be okay. But I we got to talk like this is not an But I we got to talk like this is not an But I we got to talk like this is not an easy thing to talk about. So can you easy thing to talk about. So can you easy thing to talk about. So can you please help guide my words, please help guide my words, please help guide my words, >> guide the thoughts, the ideas so that we >> guide the thoughts, the ideas so that we >> guide the thoughts, the ideas so that we can navigate towards the best outcome can navigate towards the best outcome can navigate towards the best outcome for this conversation. for this conversation. for this conversation. >> There's a scripture that goes with that >> There's a scripture that goes with that >> There's a scripture that goes with that by the way. says, "Let the words of my by the way. says, "Let the words of my by the way. says, "Let the words of my mouth mouth mouth >> and the meditations of my heart be >> and the meditations of my heart be >> and the meditations of my heart be acceptable and pleasing." So sometimes acceptable and pleasing." So sometimes acceptable and pleasing." So sometimes we can check what we're about to say by we can check what we're about to say by we can check what we're about to say by is it pleasing is it pleasing is it pleasing >> to the Lord first >> to the Lord first >> to the Lord first >> and our spouse would probably be a >> and our spouse would probably be a >> and our spouse would probably be a little bit more it'll probably be more little bit more it'll probably be more little bit more it'll probably be more palatable for him. So that's awesome.

palatable for him. So that's awesome. palatable for him. So that's awesome. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So, as we start >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So, as we start >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So, as we start to wrap up our time today, I I I can to wrap up our time today, I I I can to wrap up our time today, I I I can understand that a lot of people who are understand that a lot of people who are understand that a lot of people who are listening may be saying, "This sounds listening may be saying, "This sounds listening may be saying, "This sounds like a lot of work." like a lot of work." like a lot of work." >> And I'm not like I'm not naive to the >> And I'm not like I'm not naive to the >> And I'm not like I'm not naive to the fact that it does take a lot of work, fact that it does take a lot of work, fact that it does take a lot of work, like we said, but it is valuable work. like we said, but it is valuable work. like we said, but it is valuable work. So, how how do you think is best to So, how how do you think is best to So, how how do you think is best to present to people that like, yes, it's present to people that like, yes, it's present to people that like, yes, it's it's a lot to develop a marriage game it's a lot to develop a marriage game it's a lot to develop a marriage game plan? It's a lot of time and thought put plan? It's a lot of time and thought put plan? It's a lot of time and thought put into this, but it's so worth it. It's so into this, but it's so worth it. It's so into this, but it's so worth it. It's so valuable. How do you talk to people who valuable. How do you talk to people who valuable. How do you talk to people who struggle with the buy in process? struggle with the buy in process? struggle with the buy in process? >> Yeah, I I would say listen, you can >> Yeah, I I would say listen, you can >> Yeah, I I would say listen, you can choose your difficult. choose your difficult. choose your difficult. >> I like it. That's good. Choose your >> I like it. That's good. Choose your >> I like it. That's good. Choose your difficult. Listen, listen. If you want difficult. Listen, listen. If you want difficult. Listen, listen. If you want to get a game plan, then you have to put to get a game plan, then you have to put to get a game plan, then you have to put the work in. Listen, I tell people all the work in. Listen, I tell people all the work in. Listen, I tell people all the time, marriage is one of the most the time, marriage is one of the most the time, marriage is one of the most important institutions that you will be important institutions that you will be important institutions that you will be a part of. And we know how to uh train a part of. And we know how to uh train a part of. And we know how to uh train and get education for everything that we and get education for everything that we and get education for everything that we want to be successful in. You go to want to be successful in. You go to want to be successful in. You go to school, you get degrees, you get school, you get degrees, you get school, you get degrees, you get coaching, you get mentorship, you read coaching, you get mentorship, you read coaching, you get mentorship, you read books, you go to seminars and websites, books, you go to seminars and websites, books, you go to seminars and websites, you know, all of these things outside of you know, all of these things outside of you know, all of these things outside of the marriage, you will put on put that the marriage, you will put on put that the marriage, you will put on put that work in. But when it comes to the work in. But when it comes to the work in. But when it comes to the marriage, you seem to think that you marriage, you seem to think that you marriage, you seem to think that you don't have to put the same effort in.

don't have to put the same effort in. don't have to put the same effort in. But marriage requires no less effort as But marriage requires no less effort as But marriage requires no less effort as all these other things that you want to all these other things that you want to all these other things that you want to be successful at. So you have to be be successful at. So you have to be be successful at. So you have to be willing to roll up your sleeves and put willing to roll up your sleeves and put willing to roll up your sleeves and put in the work. And it is going to be one in the work. And it is going to be one in the work. And it is going to be one of the most rewarding things that you of the most rewarding things that you of the most rewarding things that you will be a part of. If you put in the will be a part of. If you put in the will be a part of. If you put in the work, you will experience the uh amazing work, you will experience the uh amazing work, you will experience the uh amazing unconditional love and acceptance. You unconditional love and acceptance. You unconditional love and acceptance. You will experience deep deep levels of will experience deep deep levels of will experience deep deep levels of intimacy that you've never experienced intimacy that you've never experienced intimacy that you've never experienced in any other relationship. It's worth in any other relationship. It's worth in any other relationship. It's worth the investment. the investment. the investment. >> Yeah. You know, when you asked me that, >> Yeah. You know, when you asked me that, >> Yeah. You know, when you asked me that, I almost choked up because I remember I almost choked up because I remember I almost choked up because I remember one night uh when we were doing a a one night uh when we were doing a a one night uh when we were doing a a praise and worship and prayer night here praise and worship and prayer night here praise and worship and prayer night here at Saddleach, and there were these kids at Saddleach, and there were these kids at Saddleach, and there were these kids that they came up to me for prayer. that they came up to me for prayer. that they came up to me for prayer. >> And I was thinking they needed something >> And I was thinking they needed something >> And I was thinking they needed something like, "Hey, what do you need? Extra like, "Hey, what do you need? Extra like, "Hey, what do you need? Extra money for school or you want a tour or money for school or you want a tour or money for school or you want a tour or whatnot?" And they and they asked me to whatnot?" And they and they asked me to whatnot?" And they and they asked me to come close closer down to the floor come close closer down to the floor come close closer down to the floor because I'm a tall guy. And what they because I'm a tall guy. And what they because I'm a tall guy. And what they came to prayer for is or asked for came to prayer for is or asked for came to prayer for is or asked for prayer for was for their mother and prayer for was for their mother and prayer for was for their mother and father that were getting a divorce.

father that were getting a divorce. father that were getting a divorce. >> And so when I think about the hard work >> And so when I think about the hard work >> And so when I think about the hard work that it takes to do a a marriage game that it takes to do a a marriage game that it takes to do a a marriage game plan and honestly I think we make it a plan and honestly I think we make it a plan and honestly I think we make it a little easier because you got a guided little easier because you got a guided little easier because you got a guided game plan that you can go for game plan that you can go for game plan that you can go for >> is the legacy that you want to leave is >> is the legacy that you want to leave is >> is the legacy that you want to leave is worth the investment now. worth the investment now. worth the investment now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. So most of us, we want to we want >> Right. So most of us, we want to we want >> Right. So most of us, we want to we want to just go through life and then hope to just go through life and then hope to just go through life and then hope that people say, "Oh, you left a godly that people say, "Oh, you left a godly that people say, "Oh, you left a godly legacy." But if you're going to start, legacy." But if you're going to start, legacy." But if you're going to start, if you're going to leave that godly if you're going to leave that godly if you're going to leave that godly legacy, you have to start today to plan legacy, you have to start today to plan legacy, you have to start today to plan for that, right? And I think about so for that, right? And I think about so for that, right? And I think about so many kids who've just been ripped apart many kids who've just been ripped apart many kids who've just been ripped apart by a a mother and a father who didn't by a a mother and a father who didn't by a a mother and a father who didn't want to work hard want to work hard want to work hard >> and put the hard work in. And I'm not >> and put the hard work in. And I'm not >> and put the hard work in. And I'm not that's not picking at anyone. That's that's not picking at anyone. That's that's not picking at anyone. That's just saying I just want to encourage you just saying I just want to encourage you just saying I just want to encourage you that if you're in a difficult season of that if you're in a difficult season of that if you're in a difficult season of your marriage, it is so worth you your marriage, it is so worth you your marriage, it is so worth you getting it right. Maybe not for you at getting it right. Maybe not for you at getting it right. Maybe not for you at this moment, but for your kids to see a this moment, but for your kids to see a this moment, but for your kids to see a godly godly godly uh marriage, to see that God can not uh marriage, to see that God can not uh marriage, to see that God can not only uh so so I'm I I think in my mind only uh so so I'm I I think in my mind only uh so so I'm I I think in my mind I'm saying some people just think it's I'm saying some people just think it's I'm saying some people just think it's easier to start over.

easier to start over. easier to start over. What we can teach our kids is God can What we can teach our kids is God can What we can teach our kids is God can redeem. He doesn't have to start over. redeem. He doesn't have to start over. redeem. He doesn't have to start over. So if you're going through a difficult So if you're going through a difficult So if you're going through a difficult season, season, season, >> put the hard work in. >> put the hard work in. >> put the hard work in. >> God can do the rest. Put the hard work >> God can do the rest. Put the hard work >> God can do the rest. Put the hard work in. It's for a godly legacy for you to in. It's for a godly legacy for you to in. It's for a godly legacy for you to leave for your kids. leave for your kids. leave for your kids. >> Yes. And we are not saying we're perfect >> Yes. And we are not saying we're perfect >> Yes. And we are not saying we're perfect at all. We're just a example of that. Um at all. We're just a example of that. Um at all. We're just a example of that. Um because that's why we say we're pictures because that's why we say we're pictures because that's why we say we're pictures of God gra God's grace. We should not be of God gra God's grace. We should not be of God gra God's grace. We should not be here teaching anyone about marriage here teaching anyone about marriage here teaching anyone about marriage because of all the ways we've done it because of all the ways we've done it because of all the ways we've done it wrong. And we're here to say that if God wrong. And we're here to say that if God wrong. And we're here to say that if God can do it for us, we want to bring hope can do it for us, we want to bring hope can do it for us, we want to bring hope to couples. That if you put the work in, to couples. That if you put the work in, to couples. That if you put the work in, God can do it. He can with your effort. God can do it. He can with your effort. God can do it. He can with your effort. Faith without works is ineffective. But Faith without works is ineffective. But Faith without works is ineffective. But put the work in and have the faith. put the work in and have the faith. put the work in and have the faith. >> George and Tandra, it's so great to >> George and Tandra, it's so great to >> George and Tandra, it's so great to spend time with you again. I And the spend time with you again. I And the spend time with you again. I And the book, The Marriage Game Plan, is so book, The Marriage Game Plan, is so book, The Marriage Game Plan, is so excited for the launch. Be sure to uh excited for the launch. Be sure to uh excited for the launch. Be sure to uh check out the book in the show notes. check out the book in the show notes. check out the book in the show notes. You can get the direct link there to it.

You can get the direct link there to it. You can get the direct link there to it. George, would you mind closing us out in George, would you mind closing us out in George, would you mind closing us out in prayer? Specifically, praying for people prayer? Specifically, praying for people prayer? Specifically, praying for people maybe they feel convicted over the state maybe they feel convicted over the state maybe they feel convicted over the state of their marriage. They they want they of their marriage. They they want they of their marriage. They they want they see that that vision of a healthy see that that vision of a healthy see that that vision of a healthy marriage and they want to strive for marriage and they want to strive for marriage and they want to strive for that. Or maybe they're newly married and that. Or maybe they're newly married and that. Or maybe they're newly married and they say, "This is what we got to do to they say, "This is what we got to do to they say, "This is what we got to do to set us on the path for a successful set us on the path for a successful set us on the path for a successful marriage and a legacy." marriage and a legacy." marriage and a legacy." >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> So, would you close us in prayer? >> So, would you close us in prayer? >> So, would you close us in prayer? >> Yes. Yes, sir. Yes. Father, we thank >> Yes. Yes, sir. Yes. Father, we thank >> Yes. Yes, sir. Yes. Father, we thank you, Lord, for for all of those you, Lord, for for all of those you, Lord, for for all of those demographics, those whether newly demographics, those whether newly demographics, those whether newly married or want to be married or they're married or want to be married or they're married or want to be married or they're in marriage or maybe they're going in marriage or maybe they're going in marriage or maybe they're going through a tough season. Whoever that is through a tough season. Whoever that is through a tough season. Whoever that is today, we pray for them. We pray, Lord today, we pray for them. We pray, Lord today, we pray for them. We pray, Lord God, that you would give us one is the God, that you would give us one is the God, that you would give us one is the grace uh of a loving father, but also grace uh of a loving father, but also grace uh of a loving father, but also the grace to be in relationship one to the grace to be in relationship one to the grace to be in relationship one to another. You said love God with all of another. You said love God with all of another. You said love God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and spirit, but our heart, soul, mind, and spirit, but our heart, soul, mind, and spirit, but you also said love your neighbor, and you also said love your neighbor, and you also said love your neighbor, and that's your kids and your your spouse. that's your kids and your your spouse. that's your kids and your your spouse. um uh on the same level. And so, Father, um uh on the same level. And so, Father, um uh on the same level. And so, Father, we just pray for just a Lord, a we just pray for just a Lord, a we just pray for just a Lord, a springing up of love in every home. We springing up of love in every home. We springing up of love in every home. We pray God for redemption. We pray for pray God for redemption. We pray for pray God for redemption. We pray for reconciliation. We pray, Lord God, for reconciliation. We pray, Lord God, for reconciliation. We pray, Lord God, for people uh godly people who would say, people uh godly people who would say, people uh godly people who would say, you know what, we're going to believe you know what, we're going to believe you know what, we're going to believe God for breakthrough, but we're going to God for breakthrough, but we're going to God for breakthrough, but we're going to work as if it's up to us. And Lord, I work as if it's up to us. And Lord, I work as if it's up to us. And Lord, I just pray, Lord, let this book, The just pray, Lord, let this book, The just pray, Lord, let this book, The Marriage Game Plan, be a blessing to so Marriage Game Plan, be a blessing to so Marriage Game Plan, be a blessing to so many people. and regardless if they even many people. and regardless if they even many people. and regardless if they even get our book, just to to know from our get our book, just to to know from our get our book, just to to know from our challenge today on the podcast that we challenge today on the podcast that we challenge today on the podcast that we can do it if we're willing to put the can do it if we're willing to put the can do it if we're willing to put the work in to our relationships and to our

work in to our relationships and to our work in to our relationships and to our marriage. So, Father, bless everyone's marriage. So, Father, bless everyone's marriage. So, Father, bless everyone's marriage in Jesus name. Amen. marriage in Jesus name. Amen. marriage in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. If you enjoyed this episode, consider If you enjoyed this episode, consider giving us a rating or review on iTunes. giving us a rating or review on iTunes. giving us a rating or review on iTunes. If you do, you'll help other people find If you do, you'll help other people find If you do, you'll help other people find us in the future. You can also listen to us in the future. You can also listen to us in the future. You can also listen to these episodes on YouTube. Just these episodes on YouTube. Just these episodes on YouTube. Just subscribe to the Saddleback Church subscribe to the Saddleback Church subscribe to the Saddleback Church YouTube channel for these conversations, YouTube channel for these conversations, YouTube channel for these conversations, plus lots of other video content. And if plus lots of other video content. And if plus lots of other video content. And if you are already listening to us on you are already listening to us on you are already listening to us on YouTube, subscribe to the Doable YouTube, subscribe to the Doable YouTube, subscribe to the Doable Disciplehip Podcast on Apple Podcast or Disciplehip Podcast on Apple Podcast or Disciplehip Podcast on Apple Podcast or your favorite podcasting app so you can your favorite podcasting app so you can your favorite podcasting app so you can listen in the car or wherever else you listen in the car or wherever else you listen in the car or wherever else you go. Don't forget to visit go. Don't forget to visit go. Don't forget to visit saddleback.com/doable saddleback.com/doable saddleback.com/doable to check out all of our previous to check out all of our previous to check out all of our previous episodes. And go to saddleback.com/grow episodes. And go to saddleback.com/grow episodes. And go to saddleback.com/grow to find spiritual growth resources and to find spiritual growth resources and to find spiritual growth resources and view a calendar of upcoming events. view a calendar of upcoming events. view a calendar of upcoming events. Lastly, you can always get in touch with Lastly, you can always get in touch with Lastly, you can always get in touch with us by emailing [email protected]. us by emailing [email protected]. us by emailing [email protected]. Send us your thoughts. Send us your Send us your thoughts. Send us your Send us your thoughts. Send us your questions, your Bible questions, your questions, your Bible questions, your questions, your Bible questions, your life questions, whatever. Who knows?

life questions, whatever. Who knows? life questions, whatever. Who knows? Your question might just inspire an Your question might just inspire an Your question might just inspire an upcoming episode. Thanks again for upcoming episode. Thanks again for upcoming episode. Thanks again for tuning in to Doable Disciplehip. I'm tuning in to Doable Disciplehip. I'm tuning in to Doable Disciplehip. I'm Jason Wheelen, and I hope you'll join us Jason Wheelen, and I hope you'll join us Jason Wheelen, and I hope you'll join us again next week.