What God Can Do with One Invitation

Hello, Hello, welcome to this welcome to this welcome to this podcast, the podcast, the podcast, the "Cast "Cast "Cast Your Nets" podcast series. You already Your Nets" podcast series. You already Your Nets" podcast series. You already know, I hope, know, I hope, know, I hope, that as a church we have a that as a church we have a that as a church we have a five-year vision—" five-year vision—" Let Down Your Nets" from the Let Down Your Nets" from the Let Down Your Nets" from the 5th chapter of 5th chapter of 5th chapter of the Gospel of Luke. the Gospel of Luke. the Gospel of Luke. We are making this We are making this We are making this happen by reaching happen by reaching happen by reaching people one at a time, people one at a time, people one at a time, planting five planting five planting five new communities in the new communities in the new communities in the DMV area, and training 10,000 DMV area, and training 10,000 DMV area, and training 10,000 people who are part of people who are part of people who are part of our church family our church family . And we ask God to . And we ask God to . And we ask God to use us to use us to use us to impact 20 impact 20 impact 20 million people around the million people around the million people around the world. Well, world. Well, world. Well, today we're going to today we're going to today we're going to focus on focus on focus on one person at a time. And one person at a time. And one person at a time. And you will hear the story you will hear the story you will hear the story from two people. You from two people. You from two people. You will hear the story of Vi and will hear the story of Vi and will hear the story of Vi and Jana. They became Jana. They became Jana. They became friends at work. friends at work. friends at work. God worked in their God worked in their God worked in their lives in some pretty lives in some pretty lives in some pretty amazing ways amazing ways . And God used . And God used . And God used Vi's faithfulness. Just Vi's faithfulness. Just Vi's faithfulness. Just one simple step— one simple step— start a spiritual start a spiritual start a spiritual conversation and invite conversation and invite conversation and invite Jana to church. He had Jana to church. He had Jana to church. He had no no no idea how God would idea how God would idea how God would use this to use this to use this to change her life. change her life. change her life. So I think this will So I think this will So I think this will encourage you. encourage you. encourage you. If you have questions If you have questions If you have questions about faith, if you about faith, if you about faith, if you are exploring are exploring are exploring Christianity, or Christianity, or Christianity, or if you know and if you know and if you know and love people who are love people who are love people who are walking this path, I walking this path, I walking this path, I hope you hope you hope you find comfort and find comfort and learn a lot from this learn a lot from this episode. So, episode. So, episode. So, listen to their listen to their listen to their story.

story. OK. Why don't you OK. Why don't you introduce yourself to us? introduce yourself to us? My name is Jana and I My name is Jana and I started attending NBC started attending NBC started attending NBC last year in last year in last year in August. Yes, August. Yes, August. Yes, that's great. This is great. that's great. This is great. that's great. This is great. What about you? What about you? What about you? My name is Vi. I'm from My name is Vi. I'm from My name is Vi. I'm from Massachusetts, Massachusetts, Massachusetts, moved to the DMV moved to the DMV moved to the DMV last February and last February and started going to NBC right after. started going to NBC right after. Class. Class. OK. Class. Class. OK. Class. Class. OK. Before we start, we have to Before we start, we have to Before we start, we have to show them show them show them this merch. This is this merch. This is this merch. This is real style. You real style. You real style. You have to show it. have to show it. have to show it. You should, you You should, you You should, you should show them should show them should show them this sweatshirt. FBI—“Firm this sweatshirt. FBI—“Firm this sweatshirt. FBI—“Firm Believer in Jesus.” Believer in Jesus.” Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. You... yes. yes. yes. This is my only This is my only This is my only religious merch. So religious merch. So , , , but he's cool. but he's cool. but he's cool. I hope I hope I hope I spent it I spent it I spent it because religious merch because religious merch because religious merch can sometimes be a bit can sometimes be a bit can sometimes be a bit pointless. pointless. pointless. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm also wearing I'm also wearing I'm also wearing church merch. But, church merch. But, church merch. But, okay. Let okay. Let okay. Let me dig me dig me dig a little deeper. I want...

a little deeper. I want... we want to hear your we want to hear your we want to hear your story. I know your story. I know your story. I know your story, but the people story, but the people story, but the people watching don't watching don't watching don't know it. This is a truly know it. This is a truly know it. This is a truly interesting story about interesting story about how God has worked in our how God has worked in our how God has worked in our lives in ways we lives in ways we lives in ways we don't even don't even don't even realize. And this realize. And this realize. And this brings us to a brings us to a brings us to a crossroads, to how crossroads, to how crossroads, to how God God God will use will use will use us and work us and work us and work through us. And we want to through us. And we want to through us. And we want to uncover that a little bit. uncover that a little bit. uncover that a little bit. So, Jana, I want So, Jana, I want So, Jana, I want you to start. you to start. you to start. Tell us a little about Tell us a little about Tell us a little about yourself, about your yourself, about your yourself, about your roots. What was roots. What was roots. What was your upbringing like? What your upbringing like? What your upbringing like? What were your spirituality were your spirituality were your spirituality and faith like as a child? and faith like as a child? and faith like as a child? Where are you from? Take Where are you from? Take Where are you from? Take us back to the very beginning us back to the very beginning . Not literally from the . Not literally from the . Not literally from the very beginning, because we very beginning, because we very beginning, because we don't have that much time don't have that much time , but , but , but I understand. Well, I'm originally I understand. Well, I'm originally I understand. Well, I'm originally from Miami, Florida. She from Miami, Florida. She from Miami, Florida. She was born and was born and was born and raised there. And raised there. And raised there. And you said it with you said it with you said it with pride, pride, pride, you know, 305, right? you know, 305, right? you know, 305, right? Technically, my Technically, my Technically, my number is 786, but that's number is 786, but that's number is 786, but that's nothing. For those who don't nothing. For those who don't nothing. For those who don't know. But yes, my know. But yes, my know. But yes, my family is of Cuban family is of Cuban family is of Cuban origin, even though I origin, even though I origin, even though I was born here. In was born here. In was born here. In Cuba, the main religion is Catholicism Cuba, the main religion is Catholicism .

. So I grew up in this So I grew up in this environment with my family, environment with my family, environment with my family, although I would although I would call it more of a call it more of a cultural cultural cultural Catholicism. Catholicism. Well, in the sense that we in the sense that we mentioned Jesus, mentioned Jesus, mentioned Jesus, talked about Him, talked about Him, talked about Him, but it wasn't a but it wasn't a but it wasn't a real real real practicing faith. practicing faith. I think the closest to I think the closest to that was my mom, that was my mom, that was my mom, she definitely has a she definitely has a she definitely has a relationship with God, relationship with God, relationship with God, although although it's a bit complicated. it's a bit complicated. So growing up, that So growing up, that So growing up, that was what I knew, was what I knew, was what I knew, you know? I thought, " you know? I thought, " Okay, you know about Okay, you know about Okay, you know about Jesus, you know all this from the Jesus, you know all this from the Jesus, you know all this from the Bible." And I really Bible." And I really Bible." And I really tried to tried to tried to immerse myself in it when I immerse myself in it when I immerse myself in it when I was in high school. was in high school. In Catholicism, you are In Catholicism, you are baptized as an infant, and baptized as an infant, and baptized as an infant, and then what then what then what is considered is considered is considered a confirmation of your a confirmation of your a confirmation of your faith is called faith is called faith is called confirmation. confirmation. And the first communion and the And the first communion and the other. When you other. When you other. When you grow up, you grow up, you grow up, you are allowed to do it all at the are allowed to do it all at the are allowed to do it all at the same time. So in same time. So in same time. So in high school I high school I high school I made a decision. I made a decision. I made a decision. I thought, "Okay, I thought, "Okay, I thought, "Okay, I want to do this." I want to do this." I want to do this." I did it, I was very did it, I was very did it, I was very involved, I was in it all involved, I was in it all involved, I was in it all , but it , but it , but it always felt like a always felt like a always felt like a game, like it wasn't game, like it wasn't game, like it wasn't real, like real, like real, like I wanted it but didn't I wanted it but didn't I wanted it but didn't understand it or even understand it or even understand it or even believe it. And then believe it. And then believe it. And then I mentioned it in I mentioned it in I mentioned it in my testimony.

my testimony. my testimony. When it comes to When it comes to When it comes to seeds in different seeds in different seeds in different soil, I felt like soil, I felt like soil, I felt like my soil was definitely my soil was definitely rocky and rocky and overgrown with thorns. overgrown with thorns. overgrown with thorns. You've had a lot going on You've had a lot going on You've had a lot going on . . . It was, it was hard It was, it was hard . As time went on in . As time went on in . As time went on in high school, as high school, as high school, as life moved on, it life moved on, it life moved on, it just gradually just gradually just gradually faded into the faded into the faded into the background. I wouldn't say I was background. I wouldn't say I was background. I wouldn't say I was inclined towards atheism, inclined towards atheism, inclined towards atheism, because I always believed that because I always believed that because I always believed that this universe, even this universe, even this universe, even when viewed when viewed when viewed logically, was too logically, was too logically, was too complex. It's too... too complex. It's too... too much much much to be to be to be categorical and categorical and categorical and say there's nothing say there's nothing say there's nothing —it's kind of... —it's kind of... —it's kind of... But I didn't know what it was But I didn't know what it was But I didn't know what it was , you know? I couldn't , you know? I couldn't , you know? I couldn't . So I said: I'm an . So I said: I'm an . So I said: I'm an agnostic. And then he agnostic. And then he agnostic. And then he just continued just continued just continued living. I kind of living. I kind of living. I kind of ignored it. ignored it. ignored it. I pushed it to the back burner I pushed it to the back burner I pushed it to the back burner . I don't want to think about it . I don't want to think about it . I don't want to think about it . But it seemed like it . But it seemed like it . But it seemed like it was always there. was always there. was always there. Is it still school or Is it still school or Is it still school or after school? after school? after school? It's like college now. It's like college now. It's like college now. Of course. Of course. Of course. It was like it was always It was like it was always It was like it was always there, and I still live there, and I still live there, and I still live parts of my parts of my parts of my life life life adjusting to what I adjusting to what I adjusting to what I grew up with, because grew up with, because grew up with, because even if I wasn't even if I wasn't even if I wasn't sure about the faith, sure about the faith, sure about the faith, you know... how you know... how you know... how you grow up you grow up you grow up really affects really affects really affects you. Um, and my family is you. Um, and my family is you. Um, and my family is wonderful. No family is wonderful. No family is wonderful. No family is perfect, of course, but perfect, of course, but perfect, of course, but they are truly wonderful.

they are truly wonderful. they are truly wonderful. And I think my mom And I think my mom And I think my mom really did her really did her really did her best, through her best, through her best, through her own experiences, to own experiences, to own experiences, to get me involved in get me involved in get me involved in that. that. that. And yes, it was a kind of And yes, it was a kind of And yes, it was a kind of question mark question mark question mark that was always there that was always there . It was a . It was a . It was a question mark that... question mark that... question mark that... looked so looked so looked so awesome that I awesome that I awesome that I just ignored just ignored just ignored it. it. it. And I continued to And I continued to And I continued to ignore him ignore him ignore him over and over again. And then over and over again. And then over and over again. And then I moved here. Yes. I moved here. Yes. I moved here. Yes. In 2024, for work. And In 2024, for work. And ...I mean, you ...I mean, you ...I mean, you might not know, but might not know, but might not know, but being a girl in a being a girl in a being a girl in a Hispanic family... Hispanic family... it's very much "you it's very much "you can't can't can't do anything." do anything." do anything." And that's why my mom And that's why my mom And that's why my mom came here when she came here when she came here when she was young, so it's was young, so it's was young, so it's definitely very definitely very definitely very Americanized, but Americanized, but Americanized, but it was very much in the style of... it was very much in the style of... it was very much in the style of... " " what do you mean you what do you mean you what do you mean you can't do anything?", everyone is can't do anything?", everyone is can't do anything?", everyone is so caring. so caring. so caring. Yes. Yes. Like, you know, Yes. Yes. Like, you know, Yes. Yes. Like, you know, I walk out the door and I walk out the door and I walk out the door and someone's going to someone's going to someone's going to shoot me in the shoot me in the shoot me in the face, like... face, like... face, like... Yeah. Everyone is afraid of what Yeah. Everyone is afraid of what Yeah. Everyone is afraid of what will happen to... will happen to... will happen to... Yes. And it's very much like, Yes. And it's very much like, Yes. And it's very much like, "Oh, you know, you "Oh, you know, you "Oh, you know, you can't stay can't stay can't stay overnight, you can't overnight, you can't overnight, you can't do this, you can't do this, you can't do this, you can't do that." And I do that." And I do that." And I understand that, right? You understand that, right? You understand that, right? You can only understand can only understand can only understand to a certain extent until you to a certain extent until you go through it yourself. And I'm definitely not go through it yourself. And I'm definitely not blaming my mom blaming my mom blaming my mom or anything. Because there or anything. Because there or anything. Because there really is a lot of evil in the world really is a lot of evil in the world really is a lot of evil in the world and all and all and all that. And with age, that. And with age, that. And with age, of course, I understand of course, I understand of course, I understand more. But it more. But it more. But it definitely affected definitely affected definitely affected me, so when I me, so when I me, so when I got here, I kind of went got here, I kind of went got here, I kind of went crazy.

crazy. crazy. Listen, me too. This is not Listen, me too. This is not Listen, me too. This is not an interview about me, but an interview about me, but an interview about me, but I understand that when you I understand that when you I understand that when you let go of some of your let go of some of your let go of some of your limitations and step out limitations and step out limitations and step out of your comfort zone, of your comfort zone, you have more you have more freedom to do what freedom to do what your heart truly desires. your heart truly desires. Especially when you Especially when you Especially when you say that faith for say that faith for say that faith for you at this stage you at this stage is just a big is just a big is just a big question mark. You question mark. You question mark. You know there's something. know there's something. know there's something. You're not quite sure You're not quite sure what it is, and you're not ready to what it is, and you're not ready to what it is, and you're not ready to fully commit to it yet fully commit to it yet fully commit to it yet . So it's . So it's . So it's logical. You moved logical. You moved logical. You moved from Miami. from Miami. from Miami. Yes. Yes. Yes. Baby. Baby. Baby. Yes. Aha. Yes. Aha. Yes. Aha. All the way to the DMV region. All the way to the DMV region. All the way to the DMV region. Mhm. And you started to Mhm. And you started to Mhm. And you started to break away. break away. break away. Well, I wouldn't say I went Well, I wouldn't say I went Well, I wouldn't say I went crazy. crazy. crazy. I'm just saying that those are I'm just saying that those are I'm just saying that those are your words. I just... your words. I just... I just... I just... I just... Yeah, okay, " Yeah, okay, " crazy" is for crazy" is for crazy" is for me. But yes, me. But yes, me. But yes, looking back, I looking back, I looking back, I definitely had a blast, definitely had a blast, definitely had a blast, and that's it. But yeah, I and that's it. But yeah, I and that's it. But yeah, I just walked a lot just walked a lot just walked a lot because I felt: okay, because I felt: okay, because I felt: okay, finally I have the freedom finally I have the freedom finally I have the freedom to understand myself. Yes. to understand myself. Yes. to understand myself. Yes. What do I like? What do I like? What do I like? Who am I at this stage? Who am I at this stage? Who am I at this stage? These are the things. I These are the things. I These are the things. I always, even now, and always, even now, and always, even now, and I remember it because it I remember it because it I remember it because it was part of my was part of my was part of my testimony, it's like testimony, it's like testimony, it's like breaking chains.

breaking chains. breaking chains. Mm, I'm a weirdo when it comes to Mm, I'm a weirdo when it comes to feelings. feelings. And it definitely affected And it definitely affected And it definitely affected my relationships with my my relationships with my my relationships with my family, or with my family, or with my family, or with my ex-partners ex-partners , and so on. So it , and so on. So it , and so on. So it was always something of a was always something of a was always something of a big big big problem. It always problem. It always problem. It always seemed like there was seemed like there was some kind of wall around me, and I didn't some kind of wall around me, and I didn't know, I didn't understand. And know, I didn't understand. And know, I didn't understand. And when I came here, when I came here, when I came here, I really tried I really tried I really tried to figure out: what kind of to figure out: what kind of to figure out: what kind of wall is this? How do I wall is this? How do I wall is this? How do I break it? I met a break it? I met a break it? I met a lot of people. I don't lot of people. I don't lot of people. I don't regret meeting regret meeting regret meeting them. We were very them. We were very them. We were very close friends. close friends. close friends. Unfortunately, we are no longer Unfortunately, we are no longer Unfortunately, we are no longer friends now. You know, if we friends now. You know, if we friends now. You know, if we fast-forward a bit fast-forward a bit fast-forward a bit , when I started , when I started , when I started following Christ, following Christ, following Christ, they went in a different they went in a different they went in a different direction. So, you know, you direction. So, you know, you direction. So, you know, you have to make have to make have to make some sacrifices. But I some sacrifices. But I some sacrifices. But I did it. Everything was going did it. Everything was going did it. Everything was going pretty well, right? pretty well, right? pretty well, right? I thought, "Okay, everything is I thought, "Okay, everything is I thought, "Okay, everything is great." You know, yes, I great." You know, yes, I great." You know, yes, I understand myself. I'm understand myself. I'm understand myself. I'm having fun. Ta-ta-ta. having fun. Ta-ta-ta. having fun. Ta-ta-ta. And sorry, this... And sorry, this... And sorry, this... I just wanted to I just wanted to I just wanted to say that this is say that this is Cuban blood waking up. Yes. Cuban blood waking up. Yes. So, on the outside, So, on the outside, life is going well, you life is going well, you moved to the DMV, you moved to the DMV, you moved to the DMV, you got a job, you have got a job, you have got a job, you have friends, you go out, friends, you go out, friends, you go out, but on the but on the inside, everything was kind of the inside, everything was kind of the same, but the same, but the same, but the more I opened up more I opened up more I opened up parts of that wall, parts of that wall, parts of that wall, the more I realized the more I realized the more I realized that on the inside it was even that on the inside it was even that on the inside it was even sadder, if you sadder, if you sadder, if you know what I mean, know what I mean, know what I mean, because I spent because I spent because I spent so many years just so many years just so many years just suppressing everything. And suppressing everything. And suppressing everything. And when when when you finally start doing something you finally start doing something you finally start doing something opposite to that, well, opposite to that, well, opposite to that, well, it was too much. And it was too much. And it was too much. And then I reached a point then I reached a point , sometime before

, sometime before , sometime before August of last year, August of last year, August of last year, where it all happened very where it all happened very where it all happened very suddenly, and suddenly, and suddenly, and looking back, I looking back, I looking back, I really think it really think it really think it was God. I'm only 26, was God. I'm only 26, was God. I'm only 26, so it's not a so it's not a so it's not a midlife crisis, but midlife crisis, but midlife crisis, but I had an internal, I had an internal, I had an internal, definitely not a midlife crisis definitely not a midlife crisis , crisis where I thought: , crisis where I thought: I hate everything. I I hate everything. I I hate everything. I hate everything. I'm hate everything. I'm hate everything. I'm tired of being tired of being tired of being depressed. Everything is terrible depressed. Everything is terrible . Everything is the same over . Everything is the same over . Everything is the same over and over again. Like, and over again. Like, and over again. Like, what is this even? what is this even? what is this even? I had this I had this I had this sudden urge to sudden urge to sudden urge to just just just reorganize and reorganize and reorganize and clean up every clean up every clean up every aspect of my life. aspect of my life. aspect of my life. I remember one day I was I remember one day I was I remember one day I was making a big making a big making a big list. Yes, I will list. Yes, I will list. Yes, I will play sports. I play sports. I play sports. I will eat will eat will eat healthy. And at the bottom I healthy. And at the bottom I healthy. And at the bottom I wrote: um, faith. wrote: um, faith. wrote: um, faith. I really I really I really need to deal need to deal need to deal with this belief. I with this belief. I with this belief. I really need to really need to really need to make a choice, because this " make a choice, because this " between two fires" is between two fires" is between two fires" is leading nowhere. It has to leading nowhere. It has to leading nowhere. It has to be either "yes" or... be either "yes" or... no. no. And especially because And especially because for me it for me it for me it was never a question of, "Oh, is this was never a question of, "Oh, is this was never a question of, "Oh, is this Jesus or another God?" Jesus or another God?" Jesus or another God?" For me, the question was For me, the question was : "Is there a God at all?" : "Is there a God at all?" : "Is there a God at all?" Yes. Yes. Yes. And I thought I had to And I thought I had to And I thought I had to find an answer, because find an answer, because find an answer, because life in this life in this life in this uncertainty uncertainty uncertainty gives me nothing. I gives me nothing. I gives me nothing. I feel like everything is the same feel like everything is the same feel like everything is the same . I'm like that . I'm like that . I'm like that plastic bag plastic bag plastic bag in the wind, in the wind, in the wind, you know.

you know. you know. Um, Um, Um, wait, wait. wait, wait. wait, wait. Yes, Yes, Yes, I think many people I think many people I think many people can understand this can understand this can understand this image. image. image. It's like a plastic It's like a plastic It's like a plastic bag flying in the bag flying in the bag flying in the wind. wind. wind. Yes. Yes. Yes. When you don't know what is When you don't know what is When you don't know what is true. You don't true. You don't true. You don't necessarily know what's necessarily know what's necessarily know what's real. real. Everything seems like a Everything seems like a continuous continuous continuous question mark, and you just question mark, and you just question mark, and you just go with the flow. Oh go with the flow. Oh go with the flow. Oh my God, this is proof. I my God, this is proof. I my God, this is proof. I think the way you think the way you think the way you feel this, feel this, feel this, the realization of this, the realization of this, is proof that God is proof that God is proof that God was at work in you even during was at work in you even during was at work in you even during such a difficult and such a difficult and such a difficult and dark time. And this dark time. And this dark time. And this happens just before happens just before happens just before you become you become you become friends. So, Vi, I friends. So, Vi, I friends. So, Vi, I want to want to want to turn to you for a moment, and turn to you for a moment, and turn to you for a moment, and we'll get to your we'll get to your we'll get to your friendship, but tell friendship, but tell friendship, but tell us about yourself, friend. us about yourself, friend. us about yourself, friend. How did you come to faith? How did you come to faith? How did you come to faith? Where did you grow up? What was Where did you grow up? What was Where did you grow up? What was your—faith was in your—faith was in your—faith was in question for her at question for her at question for her at that point in her life— that point in her life— but what was your but what was your but what was your journey in growing in journey in growing in journey in growing in faith? I grew up in faith? I grew up in faith? I grew up in Vietnam, lived there for Vietnam, lived there for Vietnam, lived there for about 13 years. This, about 13 years. This, about 13 years. This, like many like many like many countries in countries in Southeast Asia, is a very Southeast Asia, is a very Southeast Asia, is a very polytheistic polytheistic polytheistic society, I would society, I would society, I would say.

say. Religions were deeply Religions were deeply rooted in tradition rooted in tradition rooted in tradition and culture, and for and culture, and for and culture, and for many people it was many people it was many people it was simply a social simply a social simply a social way to cope with way to cope with way to cope with problems, problems, problems, solve problems, and solve problems, and solve problems, and live. And so live. And so live. And so let me let me let me stop you. When you stop you. When you stop you. When you say "polytheistic, say "polytheistic, " what do you mean " what do you mean " what do you mean for those who may not for those who may not for those who may not understand the understand the understand the term? This is a belief in term? This is a belief in term? This is a belief in many different higher many different higher many different higher powers. Yes. That is, in powers. Yes. That is, in powers. Yes. That is, in many higher beings. many higher beings. many higher beings. This is what it was like in This is what it was like in This is what it was like in Vietnam: Vietnam: Vietnam: my family, my my family, my my family, my biological family, biological family, biological family, did it. We did it. We did it. We sacrificed to sacrificed to sacrificed to idols. We burned idols. We burned idols. We burned offerings on offerings on offerings on Lunar New Year, and Lunar New Year, and Lunar New Year, and many times many times many times throughout the year, to throughout the year, to throughout the year, to honor our honor our honor our ancestors. We prayed for ancestors. We prayed for ancestors. We prayed for them. Buddhism was very them. Buddhism was very them. Buddhism was very widespread. We went widespread. We went widespread. We went to temples and listened to to temples and listened to to temples and listened to monks prophesy, and monks prophesy, and made many made many commitments to the commitments to the commitments to the temple. temple. temple. Mhm.

Mhm. Mhm. That's what we did, That's what we did, That's what we did, and then I moved and then I moved and then I moved here when I was 13. here when I was 13. here when I was 13. And now, far from And now, far from And now, far from that culture and that that culture and that that culture and that environment, I've embraced environment, I've embraced environment, I've embraced the identity of an atheist the identity of an atheist , , , because for the first 13 years I because for the first 13 years I because for the first 13 years I just did everything because that's what just did everything because that's what just did everything because that's what my family did. my family did. my family did. Yes. And coming here, you Yes. And coming here, you Yes. And coming here, you know, being know, being know, being away from my family, I away from my family, I away from my family, I thought, "No, I've always thought, "No, I've always thought, "No, I've always been an extremely been an extremely been an extremely logical, logical, science-oriented, evidence-oriented science-oriented, evidence-oriented guy." So I said, guy." So I said, guy." So I said, "No, evolution." Everything "No, evolution." Everything "No, evolution." Everything must be explained by must be explained by must be explained by logic. And I logic. And I logic. And I held onto this held onto this held onto this identity for the identity for the identity for the next six or next six or seven years. seven years. Of course. Of course. And then, to make a long story short And then, to make a long story short And then, to make a long story short , I had the , I had the , I had the fall of 2022. I was fall of 2022. I was fall of 2022. I was very sick in very sick in very sick in every sense: every sense: every sense: mentally, physically, in mentally, physically, in mentally, physically, in relationships, and relationships, and relationships, and professionally, and professionally, and professionally, and I needed a I needed a I needed a healer. healer. healer. I started asking I started asking I started asking questions. When I questions. When I questions. When I moved to the US at the moved to the US at the moved to the US at the age of 15, I was taken in by a age of 15, I was taken in by a age of 15, I was taken in by a Christian Christian Christian family, family, elderly people. Now elderly people. Now they are like they are like they are like parents to me.

parents to me. parents to me. That is, they are them. That is, they are them. That is, they are them. That's how I That's how I That's how I perceive them. perceive them. perceive them. And they started taking And they started taking And they started taking me to youth me to youth me to youth meetings on Wednesdays, meetings on Wednesdays, meetings on Wednesdays, to church on Sunday to church on Sunday to church on Sunday mornings. mornings. mornings. I couldn't stand it I couldn't stand it I couldn't stand it . . . What exactly didn't you like about it What exactly didn't you like about it What exactly didn't you like about it ? ? ? Because I thought: this is Because I thought: this is Because I thought: this is just nonsense. How just nonsense. How just nonsense. How can you believe that can you believe that can you believe that someone walked on water? M someone walked on water? M -m. -m. -m. How can you believe that How can you believe that How can you believe that someone touched someone touched someone touched someone—and they gained their sight someone—and they gained their sight ? ? How can you believe that How can you believe that someone told someone told someone told the lame man to get up and the lame man to get up and the lame man to get up and he walked away? he walked away? he walked away? No, I couldn't No, I couldn't No, I couldn't believe it. believe it. believe it. Aha. Aha. So I went to So I went to church, to youth church, to youth church, to youth meetings, sat in a meetings, sat in a meetings, sat in a hoodie, didn't talk to anyone hoodie, didn't talk to anyone hoodie, didn't talk to anyone , sat on the , sat on the , sat on the phone, ran away, phone, ran away, phone, ran away, was very rebellious, was very rebellious, was very rebellious, closed off from everyone. closed off from everyone. Of course. And if I Of course. And if I talked to anyone in talked to anyone in talked to anyone in church, it was only to church, it was only to church, it was only to tell them how tell them how tell them how wrong they were. wrong they were. wrong they were. Mm, okay. Mm, okay. Mm, okay. That's what I did. That's what I did. That's what I did. Yes. Yes. Yes. But then, in the fall of 2022 But then, in the fall of 2022 , I got very , I got very , I got very sick and thought: sick and thought: sick and thought: you know how children, when they you know how children, when they you know how children, when they get into trouble, get into trouble, get into trouble, run to their parents. And I run to their parents. And I run to their parents. And I thought: damn, if thought: damn, if thought: damn, if anyone can anyone can anyone can help me right now, it's help me right now, it's help me right now, it's Jesus himself, Jesus himself, Jesus himself, but only if he but only if he but only if he were real. Because at were real. Because at were real. Because at that moment I had been through a lot that moment I had been through a lot that moment I had been through a lot . I . I . I was very young was very young was very young compared to my compared to my compared to my peers.

peers. peers. I did a lot of things myself I did a lot of things myself I did a lot of things myself that people that people that people around me didn't do. And I was around me didn't do. And I was around me didn't do. And I was very proud of that. very proud of that. very proud of that. I was very I was very I was very disciplined. disciplined. disciplined. But at that time in my But at that time in my But at that time in my life, I couldn't life, I couldn't life, I couldn't do anything to do anything to do anything to help myself. Not only could help myself. Not only could help myself. Not only could I not I not I not help myself, I also made the help myself, I also made the help myself, I also made the situation worse. situation worse. situation worse. So I started searching. And So I started searching. And So I started searching. And in January 2023, in January 2023, in January 2023, I read the book my I read the book my I read the book my mom gave me mom gave me mom gave me for Christmas. It was for Christmas. It was Rick Warren's "Life with Purpose." Rick Warren's "Life with Purpose." And after a few And after a few pages, I was finally pages, I was finally pages, I was finally convinced that God convinced that God convinced that God exists. exists. exists. Oho. Oho. Oho. He presented arguments He presented arguments He presented arguments why there must be a Creator why there must be a Creator . And I thought: yes, there's . And I thought: yes, there's . And I thought: yes, there's no arguing here. no arguing here. no arguing here. This is This is This is true. true. true. So I became an So I became an So I became an agnostic. agnostic. agnostic. How How How old were you then? old were you then? old were you then? I was 20. I I was 20. I I was 20. I just turned 20. just turned 20. just turned 20. Understandable. Understandable. Understandable. Just turned 20. Just turned 20. Just turned 20. Yes. And now, in January 2022 Yes. And now, in January 2022 —no, 2023—I'm already an —no, 2023—I'm already an —no, 2023—I'm already an agnostic. agnostic.

agnostic. And now And now And now the question arose: who is the the question arose: who is the the question arose: who is the true God? He true God? He true God? He must be alone. There is a God of the must be alone. There is a God of the must be alone. There is a God of the Bible. There is a God of Islam. Bible. There is a God of Islam. Bible. There is a God of Islam. These are the two options that These are the two options that These are the two options that stood out the most stood out the most stood out the most , because in many , because in many , because in many other religions, such as other religions, such as other religions, such as Buddhism or Hinduism, Buddhism or Hinduism, Buddhism or Hinduism, there is no concept of a Creator. there is no concept of a Creator. there is no concept of a Creator. Yes. Yes. Yes. And at that moment I was And at that moment I was And at that moment I was completely convinced that there completely convinced that there completely convinced that there is a Creator. So I started is a Creator. So I started , um, reading the Bible, , um, reading the Bible, , um, reading the Bible, praying sometimes in the name of praying sometimes in the name of praying sometimes in the name of Jesus, sometimes not. Jesus, sometimes not. And I also started reading And I also started reading the Quran, learning the Quran, learning the Quran, learning more about Islam. I more about Islam. I more about Islam. I observed observed observed Ramadan twice, two Ramadan twice, two Ramadan twice, two years in a row. years in a row. years in a row. I attended I attended I attended Friday prayers. Friday prayers. Friday prayers. I was surrounded by I was surrounded by I was surrounded by Muslims. So they Muslims. So they Muslims. So they were showing me, um, were showing me, um, were showing me, um, their their their ablution and prayer rituals. ablution and prayer rituals. ablution and prayer rituals. I did all of this. I did all of this. I did all of this. So this, I mean So this, I mean So this, I mean like Jana, at this like Jana, at this like Jana, at this point your belief in God point your belief in God point your belief in God was still was still was still in question. in question. in question. Yes. Yes. Yes. You are convinced that You are convinced that You are convinced that God exists. Some God exists. Some God exists. Some creator, a higher power, creator, a higher power, creator, a higher power, exists, exists, exists, but you are still searching to but you are still searching to but you are still searching to find out find out find out who it is. who it is. who it is. Who, who is this God? So Who, who is this God? So Who, who is this God? So what exactly clicked for what exactly clicked for what exactly clicked for you or pushed you or pushed you or pushed you to believe in Jesus?

you to believe in Jesus? you to believe in Jesus? So yes. Yes. So this So yes. Yes. So this So yes. Yes. So this search continued for almost the search continued for almost the search continued for almost the next two years. next two years. Um, and I remember there were Um, and I remember there were many moments when many moments when many moments when I was reading the Bible and I I was reading the Bible and I I was reading the Bible and I thought, "Wow, this is so thought, "Wow, this is so thought, "Wow, this is so full of love." full of love." full of love." I, I, I watched, um, "The I, I, I watched, um, "The Passion of the Christ." I Passion of the Christ." I Passion of the Christ." I saw this love very saw this love very saw this love very clearly, because if this clearly, because if this clearly, because if this man, Jesus, was man, Jesus, was man, Jesus, was truly God, he truly God, he truly God, he could have just come could have just come could have just come down, down, but he didn't but he didn't . . So I really saw So I really saw it, but I didn't feel it, but I it, but I didn't feel it, but I it, but I didn't feel it, but I wanted to feel it. wanted to feel it. And I read, for example, the And I read, for example, the 15th chapter of Luke: about the 15th chapter of Luke: about the 15th chapter of Luke: about the prodigal son, the prodigal son, the prodigal son, the lost coin, the lost coin, the lost coin, the lost sheep. And I lost sheep. And I lost sheep. And I thought, "This is very thought, "This is very thought, "This is very full of love." Mm, full of love." Mm, full of love." Mm, so gradually over time so gradually over time so gradually over time I just fell in love I just fell in love I just fell in love with this character with this character with this character named Jesus. named Jesus. Fast forward to Fast forward to October 2023. I October 2023. I October 2023. I really really really started to be very started to be very started to be very consistent in my consistent in my consistent in my Bible study at that point with Bible study at that point with Navigators, a Navigators, a Navigators, a student ministry student ministry student ministry at my university.

at my university. at my university. Yes. In October, I Yes. In October, I Yes. In October, I was invited to a camp, a was invited to a camp, a was invited to a camp, a retreat, and I and one of retreat, and I and one of retreat, and I and one of my friends— my friends— actually, he was the one who actually, he was the one who actually, he was the one who helped me helped me helped me study the Bible in the study the Bible in the study the Bible in the early days. early days. early days. Yes. Yes. Yes. He always He always He always supported me. And supported me. And supported me. And we were driving together from the we were driving together from the we were driving together from the university to university to university to Maine. And he Maine. And he Maine. And he said, “So, Vi, said, “So, Vi, said, “So, Vi, if you were standing if you were standing if you were standing at the gates of heaven right now, and at the gates of heaven right now, and at the gates of heaven right now, and God asked, why God asked, why God asked, why should I let you in? What should I let you in? What should I let you in? What would you say? And I would you say? And I would you say? And I said, "I should be said, "I should be said, "I should be let in because I'm let in because I'm let in because I'm trying." "I'm not trying." "I'm not trying." "I'm not perfect, perfect, perfect, but I'm trying but I'm trying but I'm trying to find out who He is." " to find out who He is." " I'm trying to become I'm trying to become I'm trying to become better." "I'm trying to better." "I'm trying to better." "I'm trying to be good." "I know I'm be good." "I know I'm be good." "I know I'm not perfect, but I'm not perfect, but I'm not perfect, but I'm trying." "And I think that trying." "And I think that trying." "And I think that might be might be might be enough." enough." enough." And then he said, " And then he said, " Novi, this is wrong Novi, this is wrong ." And I said, "That's ." And I said, "That's ." And I said, "That's wrong." And he wrong." And he wrong." And he said, "Yes, the only said, "Yes, the only said, "Yes, the only way for you way for you way for you to get in is what to get in is what to get in is what Jesus did." Jesus did." Jesus did." Um, you know, paid for Um, you know, paid for Um, you know, paid for your sins, redeemed your sins, redeemed your sins, redeemed you, forgave you. And you, forgave you. And you, forgave you. And I said, "That's it. I I said, "That's it. I I said, "That's it. I don't have to don't have to don't have to do anything."

do anything." do anything." He said, "No, you He said, "No, you He said, "No, you don't have to don't have to don't have to do anything." And they do anything." And they do anything." And they said, "I just said, "I just said, "I just have to accept it." And have to accept it." And have to accept it." And he said, "Yeah, you he said, "Yeah, you he said, "Yeah, you just accept it." just accept it." just accept it." I remember very vividly I remember very vividly I remember very vividly how we drove how we drove north on the interstate north on the interstate in his white in his white in his white F-150 pickup truck. He was driving, F-150 pickup truck. He was driving, F-150 pickup truck. He was driving, and I was looking out the and I was looking out the and I was looking out the passenger window and passenger window and passenger window and thinking, "Wow, this is so thinking, "Wow, this is so thinking, "Wow, this is so full of love." full of love." But I still couldn't But I still couldn't believe it, man. For believe it, man. For the past two years, I have the past two years, I have prayed for prayed for prayed for revelations, revelations, revelations, supernatural encounters supernatural encounters , such as visions, dreams, , such as visions, dreams, , such as visions, dreams, signs, to signs, to signs, to know for sure that He is know for sure that He is know for sure that He is real. real. That's why I spent the entire That's why I spent the entire weekend at camp weekend at camp weekend at camp just praying for just praying for just praying for this moment. And at this moment. And at this moment. And at the end of the weekend the end of the weekend the end of the weekend we were driving back, and I didn't we were driving back, and I didn't we were driving back, and I didn't get anything. get anything. I didn't get anything. So, now I'm in So, now I'm in my my my college dorm, reflecting college dorm, reflecting college dorm, reflecting and thinking about myself. I and thinking about myself. I and thinking about myself. I thought I was being thought I was being thought I was being incredibly incredibly incredibly intellectually intellectually intellectually dishonest and overly dishonest and overly dishonest and overly skeptical because I have skeptical because I have skeptical because I have faith in so many things in faith in so many things in faith in so many things in this life, like...um, this life, like...um, this life, like...um, blind faith without any blind faith without any blind faith without any evidence.

evidence. evidence. But with this Jesus, But with this Jesus, But with this Jesus, you know, now, you know, now, you know, now, looking back, I looking back, I looking back, I see that I clearly see that I clearly see that I clearly fell in love with Him. fell in love with Him. fell in love with Him. I still didn't believe it. And I I still didn't believe it. And I I still didn't believe it. And I remember remember remember checking my checking my checking my inner state. It was as inner state. It was as inner state. It was as if I was putting if I was putting if I was putting conditions on God. conditions on God. Like, if You Like, if You do this for me, I'll do this for me, I'll do this for me, I'll do this—checked do this—checked do this—checked the boxes next to the boxes next to the boxes next to God. God. God. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I said that's not And I said that's not And I said that's not faith. This is not faith. This is faith. This is not faith. This is faith. This is not faith. This is a requirement of evidence. So I a requirement of evidence. So I a requirement of evidence. So I thought I had nothing to thought I had nothing to thought I had nothing to lose. I'll just lose. I'll just lose. I'll just take this step. take this step. take this step. Because if I'm wrong, I Because if I'm wrong, I Because if I'm wrong, I lose nothing. lose nothing. So I just said to So I just said to myself in my heart, "Jesus, I myself in my heart, "Jesus, I myself in my heart, "Jesus, I believe that You are my believe that You are my believe that You are my Lord and Savior." Lord and Savior." " I believe that You died and I believe that You died and I believe that You died and rose again for my sins." rose again for my sins." And that's it. I did And that's it. I did my evening routine. my evening routine. my evening routine. Went to bed. I didn't Went to bed. I didn't Went to bed. I didn't see...I still haven't see...I still haven't see...I still haven't received those received those received those revelations. I didn't see a revelations. I didn't see a revelations. I didn't see a choir of angels. I didn't choir of angels. I didn't choir of angels. I didn't see the see the see the heavens opening heavens opening . Fell asleep.

. Fell asleep. . Fell asleep. And the next day I And the next day I And the next day I woke up and got woke up and got woke up and got everything I ever everything I ever everything I ever dreamed of. I've been praying for the dreamed of. I've been praying for the dreamed of. I've been praying for the last two years. last two years. last two years. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Because I opened the Bible Because I opened the Bible Because I opened the Bible just another day, another just another day, another just another day, another morning. Before morning. Before morning. Before that, reading was that, reading was that, reading was like part of a routine, like part of a routine, like part of a routine, part of a search, and it was part of a search, and it was part of a search, and it was distracting, distracting, distracting, confusing, and confusing, and confusing, and time-consuming. But time-consuming. But time-consuming. But now it immediately felt now it immediately felt now it immediately felt like a rebirth. like a rebirth. like a rebirth. Yes. Yes. Yes. And opened his eyes. And opened his eyes. And opened his eyes. I remember I was just I remember I was just I remember I was just reading, going through the outline reading, going through the outline , and every few , and every few , and every few verses I'm like: owh. verses I'm like: owh. Wow. Wow. Yes. Yes. I just understand. I I just understand. I finally understand what that finally understand what that finally understand what that really really really meant. And at the meant. And at the meant. And at the end, you know, end, you know, end, you know, it felt like an it felt like an electric current electric current jumped out of the Bible and jumped out of the Bible and jumped out of the Bible and kind of restarted kind of restarted kind of restarted my heart. my heart. my heart. I couldn't explain what I couldn't explain what I couldn't explain what exactly, you know, but I exactly, you know, but I exactly, you know, but I felt the difference. felt the difference. felt the difference. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm like: what is this? And I'm like: what is this? And I'm like: what is this? And I went out onto campus and I went out onto campus and I went out onto campus and saw everyone differently.

saw everyone differently. saw everyone differently. Just more love. Just more love. Just more love. That is, this is the word used That is, this is the word used when Scripture when Scripture speaks of speaks of speaks of opening blind opening blind opening blind eyes. eyes. eyes. Yes. This is what you Yes. This is what you Yes. This is what you describe, this is what you describe, this is what you describe, this is what you describe. Yes. It's not describe. Yes. It's not describe. Yes. It's not simple, it's not a simple, it's not a simple, it's not a theological theological theological concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a personal experience, personal experience, personal experience, when you when you when you come to faith in come to faith in come to faith in Jesus and He works in Jesus and He works in Jesus and He works in your life, your life, it really it really feels like feels like feels like suddenly, even if suddenly, even if suddenly, even if it's not such a it's not such a it's not such a dramatic testimony dramatic testimony , you start to , you start to , you start to feel things, feel things, feel things, pay attention to pay attention to pay attention to things, and desire things, and desire things, and desire things that you didn't things that you didn't things that you didn't desire before. And that's great, desire before. And that's great, desire before. And that's great, dude. So, we're dude. So, we're dude. So, we're talking now, is this the talking now, is this the talking now, is this the end of 2023, beginning of end of 2023, beginning of end of 2023, beginning of 2024? 2024? 2024? I said that prayer to I said that prayer to give... give... to believe in Jesus, that to believe in Jesus, that to believe in Jesus, that prayer in October 2024 prayer in October 2024 . . . Yes. Okay. Wow. So, Yes. Okay. Wow. So, Yes. Okay. Wow. So, you come to faith in you come to faith in you come to faith in Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Ahem. You're still here, Ahem. You're still here, Ahem. You're still here, acting acting acting recklessly. I know recklessly. I know recklessly. I know it wasn't that it wasn't that it wasn't that crazy, but crazy, but crazy, but you're lost. You you're lost. You you're lost. You have doubts. You both have doubts. You both have doubts. You both end up in the same end up in the same end up in the same job.

job. How did you become friends? Who wants to tell the Who wants to tell the real real real story of how you story of how you story of how you eventually became friends? eventually became friends? eventually became friends? At first we were At first we were At first we were just acquaintances. just acquaintances. Because you started working Because you started working sometime in May. sometime in May. sometime in May. I started in April 2025 I started in April 2025 . . . You started in April You started in April You started in April last year. And I last year. And I last year. And I remember, I will never remember, I will never remember, I will never forget the day forget the day forget the day we met. I was we met. I was we met. I was walking around the offices because walking around the offices because walking around the offices because one of the projects one of the projects one of the projects I was working on was I was working on was I was working on was similar to this similar to this similar to this experiment. This experiment. This experiment. This sounds stranger than it sounds stranger than it sounds stranger than it actually is. I was looking for actually is. I was looking for actually is. I was looking for people to participate, it people to participate, it people to participate, it was his first day, was his first day, was his first day, I went into his I went into his I went into his office and started office and started office and started talking to them. This was talking to them. This was talking to them. This was our first contact, and our first contact, and it was very quiet. But then, over time... But then, over time... Quiet or strange, what Quiet or strange, what Quiet or strange, what exactly? exactly? exactly? You can be frank. You can be frank. He was demanding. He was demanding. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. He's a cool guy. He's a cool guy. He's a cool guy. Yes. Yes. Yes. Um, I Yes. Yes. Yes. Um, I Yes. Yes. Yes. Um, I should have recognized him better should have recognized him better should have recognized him better , you know.

, you know. We met We met by chance because his by chance because his by chance because his office was five office was five office was five doors down from mine. doors down from mine. Um, and I became quite close Um, and I became quite close friends with friends with friends with his his his office colleague. So I would office colleague. So I would office colleague. So I would go over to talk to them go over to talk to them go over to talk to them and sometimes I would and sometimes I would and sometimes I would catch some snippets of catch some snippets of catch some snippets of conversations with him, conversations with him, conversations with him, and and and you knew he was a you knew he was a you knew he was a Christian at that Christian at that Christian at that point, or... point, or... point, or... No, because he hardly No, because he hardly No, because he hardly spoke. spoke. spoke. Okay. Of course. Okay. Of course. Okay. Of course. OK. OK. OK. Um, but then... Um, but then... Um, but then... so he wasn't walking around so he wasn't walking around so he wasn't walking around at work in a at work in a at work in a "Convinced Believer "Convinced Believer "Convinced Believer in Jesus" sweatshirt. in Jesus" sweatshirt. in Jesus" sweatshirt. No, I didn't go for a walk. No, I didn't go for a walk. No, I didn't go for a walk. Of course. Um, but I Of course. Um, but I Of course. Um, but I remember, we... You remember, we... You remember, we... You remember when we remember when we remember when we first... I forget what first... I forget what first... I forget what we were doing, but oh, I was we were doing, but oh, I was we were doing, but oh, I was making a making a making a thank you video for our thank you video for our thank you video for our department manager, well department manager, well , office style. So I , office style. So I , office style. So I sat people down on the sat people down on the sat people down on the couch, couch, couch, and I think he was and I think he was and I think he was walking by, walking by, walking by, came over, and sat down because I was came over, and sat down because I was came over, and sat down because I was taking notes, and I taking notes, and I taking notes, and I forgot what we were forgot what we were forgot what we were talking about. I know for sure talking about. I know for sure talking about. I know for sure that it had nothing to do that it had nothing to do that it had nothing to do with Christ. with Christ. with Christ. But he somehow But he somehow turned the conversation to this , and we were talking about , and we were talking about , and we were talking about this, and I said: " this, and I said: " Yeah, you know, I Yeah, you know, I Yeah, you know, I grew up like this." I said, "I grew up like this." I said, "I don't know if I believe that."

don't know if I believe that." don't know if I believe that." "I don't know this, "I don't know this, "I don't know this, this, and this." "I this, and this." "I this, and this." "I just don't know." Do just don't know." Do just don't know." Do you remember? you remember? you remember? Do you remember how he Do you remember how he Do you remember how he came to Jesus? came to Jesus? came to Jesus? Do you remember how...how you Do you remember how...how you Do you remember how...how you started talking about Jesus? started talking about Jesus? started talking about Jesus? You know, this is very You know, this is very You know, this is very personal. I just personal. I just personal. I just remember we sat down remember we sat down remember we sat down on this couch and started on this couch and started on this couch and started talking, and she talking, and she talking, and she started talking about started talking about started talking about some of the problems she some of the problems she some of the problems she was facing, and I was facing, and I was facing, and I really believed that God really believed that God was the solution to everything was the solution to everything , , and that God was in everything, and that God was in everything, so I just listened so I just listened so I just listened and listened to her, um, and listened to her, um, and listened to her, um, and in my head I was like, and in my head I was like, and in my head I was like, "Yeah, the "Yeah, the "Yeah, the solution is Jesus." This is solution is Jesus." This is solution is Jesus." This is 100% Jesus. 100% Jesus. And I often talk to And I often talk to many people about many people about many people about faith, because anyone who knows me faith, because anyone who knows me knows that Jesus is how knows that Jesus is how knows that Jesus is how I try to I try to I try to live. Mhm. live. Mhm. So I thought my So I thought my starting point for talking to starting point for talking to starting point for talking to her would be to ask, "Do her would be to ask, "Do you believe in a higher power?"

you believe in a higher power?" . And she replied: " . And she replied: " Yes, I was raised Yes, I was raised Yes, I was raised Catholic." So I Catholic." So I Catholic." So I kept asking kept asking kept asking questions, trying questions, trying questions, trying to understand her better, to understand her better, to understand her better, asking, "What was it like asking, "What was it like growing up in the growing up in the growing up in the Catholic Church?" Catholic Church?" Catholic Church?" Um, how was it in your Um, how was it in your Um, how was it in your family? Then I started to family? Then I started to family? Then I started to connect it with the idea connect it with the idea connect it with the idea that, forget about that, forget about that, forget about denominations, the solution is denominations, the solution is denominations, the solution is Jesus. Jesus. We kept We kept talking about it, and talking about it, and talking about it, and at the end I said, " at the end I said, " Um, yeah, I go to a Um, yeah, I go to a youth Bible study youth Bible study called Citywide." called Citywide." called Citywide." Do you want to go with me? And Do you want to go with me? And Do you want to go with me? And it was so. Yes. it was so. Yes. it was so. Yes. And that's how it all began. What And that's how it all began. What ? ? ? Were you on the Were you on the Were you on the receiving end? receiving end? receiving end? Ugh. He. Ugh. He. Ugh. He. We call this the " We call this the " We call this the " Jesus Feint." You talk Jesus Feint." You talk Jesus Feint." You talk about one thing, and he about one thing, and he about one thing, and he somehow somehow somehow shifts the topic to shifts the topic to shifts the topic to Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Yes. Yes. Yes. And then he invited And then he invited And then he invited you to church. you to church. you to church. What was it like for you What was it like for you to hear that while you were to hear that while you were to hear that while you were processing what processing what processing what he was saying, sharing your he was saying, sharing your he was saying, sharing your own life? own life? own life? He invites you to He invites you to He invites you to his church. his church. his church. You don't even know You don't even know You don't even know him well. him well. him well. What were you even What were you even What were you even thinking about? Actually, I thinking about? Actually, I thinking about? Actually, I think in that first think in that first think in that first conversation you conversation you conversation you invited me, but invited me, but invited me, but at first I at first I at first I refused, saying I did refused, saying I did refused, saying I did n't have time.

n't have time. Hmm, I feel like I've grown up Hmm, I feel like I've grown up with Jesus. It wasn't with Jesus. It wasn't with Jesus. It wasn't something foreign to me something foreign to me . I wasn't against . I wasn't against . I wasn't against him. I was just him. I was just him. I was just confused, confused, confused, honestly, it was honestly, it was honestly, it was confusion, but also a confusion, but also a confusion, but also a sense of guilt, sense of guilt, sense of guilt, which, whether I realized which, whether I realized which, whether I realized it or not, was like, it or not, was like, it or not, was like, "Oh, I didn't do "Oh, I didn't do "Oh, I didn't do enough to enough to enough to deserve this," deserve this," deserve this," or "why, why, or "why, why, or "why, why, you know, just why," you know, just why," you know, just why," and I felt so and I felt so and I felt so guilty about so many guilty about so many guilty about so many things. It was simple. A things. It was simple. A things. It was simple. A debilitating feeling of debilitating feeling of debilitating feeling of guilt that I simply guilt that I simply guilt that I simply suppressed. suppressed. suppressed. And so, when he And so, when he And so, when he told me about told me about told me about it and invited me, I it and invited me, I it and invited me, I made up all sorts of made up all sorts of made up all sorts of excuses, said "no," excuses, said "no," excuses, said "no," because he invited because he invited because he invited me, it seems, me, it seems, me, it seems, many times. Um, I many times. Um, I many times. Um, I was like, "No, I can't was like, "No, I can't was like, "No, I can't because I'm doing sports because I'm doing sports and it coincides with and it coincides with and it coincides with the days of meetings," and the days of meetings," and the days of meetings," and all that. all that. And then I hurt my And then I hurt my back, and it was because of back, and it was because of back, and it was because of some stupid some stupid some stupid little thing that shouldn't have led little thing that shouldn't have led little thing that shouldn't have led to this at all to this at all to this at all . And I . And I . And I remember the day I remember the day I remember the day I canceled my canceled my canceled my subscription. He subscription. He subscription. He invited me back and invited me back and invited me back and said, "Hey, they're said, "Hey, they're said, "Hey, they're meeting meeting meeting today." "There will be today." "There will be today." "There will be free food."

free food." free food." Wait, sorry. I have to Wait, sorry. I have to Wait, sorry. I have to ask. He ask. He ask. He has invited you has invited you has invited you to this moment many times to this moment many times to this moment many times . . . Yes. Does Yes. Does Yes. Does n't it seem n't it seem n't it seem strange to you that he's so strange to you that he's so strange to you that he's so persistent? persistent? persistent? It wasn't somehow It wasn't somehow It wasn't somehow annoying, annoying, annoying, no, it was very no, it was very no, it was very He didn't jump out from around the He didn't jump out from around the corner. corner. corner. Yes. He's like, "Do you want to Yes. He's like, "Do you want to Yes. He's like, "Do you want to leave now?" leave now?" leave now?" No, it was more like No, it was more like No, it was more like we communicated we communicated we communicated as it came up, it was as it came up, it was as it came up, it was never a never a never a relationship, a friendship relationship, a friendship relationship, a friendship formed at that formed at that formed at that moment. moment. moment. Yes. He didn't Yes. He didn't force it on me. It was just force it on me. It was just mentioned in mentioned in mentioned in conversation. Um, because I was conversation. Um, because I was conversation. Um, because I was open to it, open to it, open to it, you know? I had you know? I had you know? I had this question. So it this question. So it this question. So it was definitely present. was definitely present. was definitely present. And he, I mean, And he, I mean, And he, I mean, he gave good things he gave good things . I remember at one of . I remember at one of . I remember at one of those moments when those moments when those moments when I was starting out, because it was all I was starting out, because it was all I was starting out, because it was all happening at the happening at the happening at the same time, I same time, I same time, I was trying to answer was trying to answer was trying to answer that question. Um, that question. Um, that question. Um, this happened a little this happened a little this happened a little after I met after I met after I met him. So I remember at him. So I remember at him. So I remember at one point you're like, one point you're like, one point you're like, "Well, how can you trust "Well, how can you trust "Well, how can you trust someone if you someone if you someone if you don't know them?" He's like, " don't know them?" He's like, " You need to read You need to read You need to read the Bible." So I started the Bible." So I started the Bible." So I started reading the Bible. But reading the Bible. But reading the Bible. But then I had then I had then I had back problems, back problems, back problems, but I still but I still but I still continued to do it continued to do it continued to do it . And I'm like, . And I'm like, "Bro, this is so "Bro, this is so "Bro, this is so confusing. I confusing. I confusing. I don't even know where to start don't even know where to start don't even know where to start with this Bible. It's with this Bible. It's with this Bible. It's simple, it's so simple, it's so simple, it's so overwhelming. I overwhelming. I overwhelming. I don't even know how to don't even know how to don't even know how to open it."

open it." open it." And he's like, "You And he's like, "You And he's like, "You should come to our should come to our should come to our Bible study." Um, Bible study." Um, Bible study." Um, and I'm like, "You know what? and I'm like, "You know what? and I'm like, "You know what? What a coincidence. I just What a coincidence. I just What a coincidence. I just canceled my canceled my canceled my membership. I'm free." membership. I'm free." membership. I'm free." Um, so I came and Um, so I came and Um, so I came and he took me to Citywide he took me to Citywide . . . In fact, his In fact, his In fact, his sister was there too. sister was there too. sister was there too. Um, and yes, I was there, and Um, and yes, I was there, and Um, and yes, I was there, and that was when that was when that was when Donnie was on Donnie was on Donnie was on Hello Donnie. Hello Donnie. Hello Donnie. Hello Donnie. Yes, Hello Donnie. Yes, Hello Donnie. Yes, he was there. Um, and I he was there. Um, and I he was there. Um, and I was listening, and it was like was listening, and it was like was listening, and it was like I couldn't, I I couldn't, I I couldn't, I couldn't even couldn't even couldn't even name you the name you the name you the exact moment, if that makes exact moment, if that makes exact moment, if that makes sense. It was sense. It was sense. It was just like this just like this just like this slow, slow, slow, gradual effect. Because gradual effect. Because gradual effect. Because I'm also quite I'm also quite I'm also quite logical, and I think that's logical, and I think that's logical, and I think that's partly the reason partly the reason partly the reason why I could, on my own why I could, on my own why I could, on my own I just couldn't, I didn't I just couldn't, I didn't I just couldn't, I didn't know. Because for me it know. Because for me it know. Because for me it was also: "I was also: "I was also: "I need need need confirmation." Like, confirmation." Like, confirmation." Like, I need, I I need, I I need, I know for sure that if I know for sure that if I know for sure that if I get at least one get at least one get at least one confirmation, I confirmation, I confirmation, I 'll be 100% sure. 'll be 100% sure. 'll be 100% sure. But then, and even now, But then, and even now, But then, and even now, looking back, I looking back, I looking back, I thought: that's thought: that's thought: that's not really faith, is not really faith, is not really faith, is it? It's like I believe it? It's like I believe it? It's like I believe that, you know, water that, you know, water that, you know, water comes from the cloud comes from the cloud comes from the cloud when it rains or something when it rains or something when it rains or something . I don't know, . I don't know, . I don't know, gravity. It's like it's gravity. It's like it's gravity. It's like it's not faith at all. It's not faith at all. It's not faith at all. It's just a fact, right?

just a fact, right? just a fact, right? Well, the other side of it is that Well, the other side of it is that Well, the other side of it is that when you read the when you read the when you read the New Testament, New Testament, New Testament, there were people who there were people who were literally there. were literally there. They saw the miracles that They saw the miracles that They saw the miracles that Jesus performed, Jesus performed, Jesus performed, right up until his resurrection. right up until his resurrection. right up until his resurrection. Over 500 witnesses. People Over 500 witnesses. People who were, that is, they who were, that is, they who were, that is, they lived at the time when lived at the time when lived at the time when this was happening. And this was happening. And this was happening. And people still didn't people still didn't people still didn't believe it. believe it. believe it. Yes. Yes. So our miracles do not So our miracles do not create faith. create faith. create faith. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think sometimes we I think sometimes we I think sometimes we think: if I could think: if I could think: if I could see this miracle, if I see this miracle, if I see this miracle, if I had this sign, had this sign, had this sign, then I would believe. This is then I would believe. This is then I would believe. This is not necessarily true not necessarily true . Even with that, we . Even with that, we . Even with that, we are required to say: are required to say: are required to say: I have seen enough, I I have seen enough, I I have seen enough, I know enough know enough know enough about this person. about this person. about this person. Yes. Yes. Yes. To trust him. To trust him. To trust him. It still requires a It still requires a It still requires a step of faith from us. step of faith from us. step of faith from us. So this is where you are now. So this is where you are now. So this is where you are now. Yes, you're Yes, you're Yes, you're working on it. working on it. working on it. I'm working on it. I I'm working on it. I I'm working on it. I think: who, who think: who, who think: who, who really is Jesus? Because I have what really is Jesus? Because I have what really is Jesus? Because I have what I knew and I knew and I knew and kept from childhood. kept from childhood. kept from childhood. And there is something I am learning And there is something I am learning And there is something I am learning now. They are, of course, now. They are, of course, now. They are, of course, very different.

very different. very different. Um, like Catholicism. So Um, like Catholicism. So Um, like Catholicism. So it was kind of a partial it was kind of a partial it was kind of a partial rethinking. Yes. rethinking. Yes. rethinking. Yes. And partly And partly learning from scratch. And, um, learning from scratch. And, um, yeah, I remember yeah, I remember yeah, I remember going, and the few going, and the few going, and the few times I times I times I came after that, came after that, came after that, I also didn't I also didn't I also didn't want to talk to anyone because want to talk to anyone because want to talk to anyone because I thought, oh, I do I thought, oh, I do I thought, oh, I do n't really know anything, and I n't really know anything, and I n't really know anything, and I want to start asking want to start asking want to start asking questions, so I sat by questions, so I sat by questions, so I sat by myself. myself. And I remember the second time And I remember the second time I came, because I came, because I came, because he wasn't there, I was he wasn't there, I was he wasn't there, I was sitting alone, and this sitting alone, and this sitting alone, and this girl, her name was girl, her name was girl, her name was Maria, I think she Maria, I think she Maria, I think she was baptized on was baptized on was baptized on Easter. Easter. Easter. Yes. Yes. She sat down at Yes. Yes. She sat down at Yes. Yes. She sat down at my table and said, " my table and said, " Hello." And I replied Hello." And I replied : "Hello." And she : "Hello." And she : "Hello." And she started talking to me started talking to me started talking to me , and it was, , and it was, , and it was, you know, the you know, the strangest deep strangest deep conversation we had. I sat here conversation we had. I sat here conversation we had. I sat here crying, thinking, "I crying, thinking, "I crying, thinking, "I don't even know this don't even know this don't even know this girl. Why am I girl. Why am I girl. Why am I crying now?" Because she seemed to crying now?" Because she seemed to crying now?" Because she seemed to really really really understand what I was understand what I was understand what I was going through, she going through, she going through, she talked to me and talked to me and talked to me and told me about her told me about her told me about her past and all that. And past and all that. And past and all that. And so, I just started so, I just started so, I just started going, and every time going, and every time going, and every time I came, I I came, I I came, I learned something new, learned something new, learned something new, and I definitely started and I definitely started and I definitely started opening up, and I was like, opening up, and I was like, opening up, and I was like, "Okay, I still "Okay, I still "Okay, I still don't know if I believe, but I'm don't know if I believe, but I'm don't know if I believe, but I'm already talking to already talking to God sincerely." I say: " Help me Help me Help me believe." Help believe." Help believe." Help me do this." It's me do this." It's me do this." It's like, it's always been like that like, it's always been like that like, it's always been like that , even when I , even when I , even when I was doing was doing was doing Catholic Catholic Catholic things, I wanted to things, I wanted to things, I wanted to be more like be more like be more like You. I want to believe. I don't You. I want to believe. I don't You. I want to believe. I don't want to want to want to disbelieve. It was like disbelieve. It was like disbelieve. It was like two personalities, and as

two personalities, and as two personalities, and as time went on, I time went on, I time went on, I continued to continued to continued to study, study, study, interact with people, interact with people, interact with people, try to try to try to maintain spiritual maintain spiritual maintain spiritual discipline, discipline, discipline, talk to Him more, and then talk to Him more, and then talk to Him more, and then everything everything started to fall into started to fall into place, and I started to place, and I started to place, and I started to feel it all. feel it all. And then I started And then I started serving serving serving at Kids Quest. You guys at Kids Quest. You guys at Kids Quest. You guys should try it. Ahem. should try it. Ahem. And the more I And the more I interacted with people, interacted with people, interacted with people, the more I the more I the more I received from them and received from them and received from them and gave back to them. Indeed, gave back to them. Indeed, gave back to them. Indeed, I feel like we I feel like we I feel like we see God's work in see God's work in see God's work in our relationships with our relationships with our relationships with other people, right? You other people, right? You other people, right? You can't, well, what are you going can't, well, what are you going can't, well, what are you going to do on your own? It all to do on your own? It all to do on your own? It all comes down to how comes down to how comes down to how you interact with you interact with you interact with other people. It was a other people. It was a other people. It was a slow process, but slow process, but slow process, but by that point I had already by that point I had already by that point I had already trusted Him, even though trusted Him, even though trusted Him, even though I was still holding onto I was still holding onto I was still holding onto some things without even some things without even some things without even realizing it, and realizing it, and realizing it, and just getting on with just getting on with just getting on with my life. my life. And some of my friends or And some of my friends or people I serve with people I serve with people I serve with have asked, “Oh, you haven’t have asked, “Oh, you haven’t have asked, “Oh, you haven’t been baptized yet?” And there been baptized yet?” And there been baptized yet?” And there were a lot of misconceptions in my head were a lot of misconceptions in my head . But now, . But now, looking back, I looking back, I looking back, I realize that I had these realize that I had these realize that I had these shackles, which we shackles, which we shackles, which we can talk about can talk about can talk about later, if you want.

later, if you want. later, if you want. But I felt I wasn't But I felt I wasn't confident enough in my confident enough in my faith. I thought I didn't know enough yet faith. I thought I didn't know enough yet faith. I thought I didn't know enough yet to be to be to be baptized. It was like a baptized. It was like a baptized. It was like a final step. And final step. And final step. And I had such an I had such an I had such an emotional moment in the emotional moment in the emotional moment in the bathroom. bathroom. And I finally let go of what I was holding on to so tightly. I holding on to so tightly. I mean, I don't know what mean, I don't know what mean, I don't know what I wasn't holding on to, but I I wasn't holding on to, but I I wasn't holding on to, but I let go of that too let go of that too . Uh, but it was . Uh, but it was . Uh, but it was really like that, and I really like that, and I really like that, and I thought, "Yeah, that doesn't make thought, "Yeah, that doesn't make thought, "Yeah, that doesn't make any sense." What do any sense." What do any sense." What do you mean by you mean by you mean by strengthening my faith? strengthening my faith? strengthening my faith? It's like a journey of a It's like a journey of a It's like a journey of a lifetime. Then lifetime. Then lifetime. Then nobody's going to get nobody's going to get nobody's going to get baptized." So baptized." So baptized." So I said, "Okay, I'm I said, "Okay, I'm I said, "Okay, I'm ready." ready." ready." Uh, and I would say that Uh, and I would say that Uh, and I would say that was kind of a was kind of a was kind of a climax climax climax . . . Wow. Wow. Uh, and yeah, that happened Uh, and yeah, that happened this year. I this year. I this year. I got baptized. got baptized. got baptized. It's crazy. I It's crazy. I It's crazy. I think it was in March. think it was in March. think it was in March. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah. How has Yeah. How has Yeah. How has your life changed? your life changed? Well, the first thing that comes Well, the first thing that comes to mind, and I would to mind, and I would to mind, and I would say, is the little things, say, is the little things, say, is the little things, like you like you like you were talking about your were talking about your were talking about your coffee. coffee. coffee. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're Because they're Because they're little things. little things. little things. They're really just They're really just They're really just little things. And I'm going to digress a little bit little things. And I'm going to digress a little bit little things. And I'm going to digress a little bit for a for a for a minute. I really am, and minute. I really am, and minute. I really am, and even now I'm still even now I'm still even now I'm still struggling, which I struggling, which I struggling, which I mentioned. A lot has mentioned. A lot has mentioned. A lot has changed, but like you changed, but like you changed, but like you said, you're said, you're said, you're still going to have challenges, still going to have challenges, still going to have challenges, because we're still because we're still because we're still imperfect. We're imperfect. We're imperfect. We're still on this side of heaven. still on this side of heaven. still on this side of heaven. you have this struggle, and you have this struggle, and you have this struggle, and I have this constant I have this constant I have this constant feeling that I'm expecting feeling that I'm expecting feeling that I'm expecting to be at a to be at a to be at a certain point in my certain point in my certain point in my journey, but You journey, but You journey, but You know, it's harder. It know, it's harder. It all starts with all starts with God's work and then God's work and then God's work and then also your also your also your reaction to it, but, uh reaction to it, but, uh , in the little things, , in the little things, , in the little things, I used to swear a lot I used to swear a lot I used to swear a lot . Oh . Oh . Oh my god. It was horrible. my god. It was horrible. my god. It was horrible. It was bad. It It was bad. It It was bad. It was so was so was so ingrained in my ingrained in my ingrained in my vocabulary vocabulary vocabulary that I really thought I that I really thought I that I really thought I didn't swear. didn't swear. didn't swear. And I was 100% And I was 100% And I was 100% completely oblivious completely oblivious completely oblivious to my surroundings too to my surroundings too . It's just . It's just . It's just like, yeah. like, yeah. like, yeah. It just It just It just came out. It was came out. It was came out. It was so bad. so bad. so bad. And I really struggled And I really struggled And I really struggled with it because it was with it because it was with it because it was so ingrained so ingrained so ingrained in my vocabulary in my vocabulary in my vocabulary . It's so hard, . It's so hard, . It's so hard, and I really thought I would never and I really thought I would never and I really thought I would never get over it.

get over it. get over it. It was something I've struggled with since It was something I've struggled with since high school. high school. And listen, I saw And listen, I saw And listen, I saw that look on your face. that look on your face. that look on your face. You felt that look on your You felt that look on your You felt that look on your face. I felt that. face. I felt that. face. I felt that. Yeah. No, I was the Yeah. No, I was the Yeah. No, I was the same. Trust me, same. Trust me, same. Trust me, it's so bad. It's It's it's so bad. It's It's it's so bad. It's It's like when something is like when something is like when something is so ingrained so ingrained so ingrained in you or your in you or your in you or your way of life. It way of life. It way of life. It like a habit that's like a habit that's like a habit that's hard to break. I hard to break. I hard to break. I really thought I'd really thought I'd really thought I'd never be able to never be able to never be able to let go of it. And I just kept going on let go of it. And I just kept going on my my journey. It was journey. It was journey. It was just, "Oh, I don't want to just, "Oh, I don't want to just, "Oh, I don't want to do this. This is do this. This is do this. This is not good." Not even not good." Not even not good." Not even because when I because when I because when I tried to do it tried to do it tried to do it just through willpower just through willpower just through willpower and discipline, nothing worked and discipline, nothing worked and discipline, nothing worked . But it . But it . But it just went away in my just went away in my just went away in my walk with Christ walk with Christ walk with Christ . And one day I . And one day I . And one day I didn't even realize didn't even realize didn't even realize it. I thought, "Oh, I do it. I thought, "Oh, I do it. I thought, "Oh, I do n't really n't really n't really swear anymore." And it's swear anymore." And it's swear anymore." And it's not even just not even just not even just that. Now when I that. Now when I that. Now when I hear a swear word. It's hear a swear word. It's hear a swear word. It's like someone just like someone just like someone just stuck a knife in my stuck a knife in my stuck a knife in my ear. I thought, "Oh, that's ear. I thought, "Oh, that's ear. I thought, "Oh, that's so vulgar." And it's so vulgar." And it's so vulgar." And it's not that I'm not that I'm not that I'm judging, it's just that what judging, it's just that what used to fly used to fly used to fly by me. What used to be by me. What used to be by me. What used to be part of the crowd part of the crowd part of the crowd now stands out like a now stands out like a now stands out like a thorn in the side of my eye. thorn in the side of my eye. thorn in the side of my eye. So it's just So it's just So it's just your conscience. your conscience. your conscience. Yeah. It's Yeah. It's Yeah. It's waking up. waking up. waking up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what That's what That's what Paul is talking about. Don't Paul is talking about. Don't Paul is talking about. Don't adjust to adjust to adjust to it. world, but it. world, but it. world, but be transformed by be transformed by be transformed by the renewing of your the renewing of your the renewing of your mind. It's like mind. It's like mind. It's like reprogramming reprogramming reprogramming the the the software.

software. software. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that's the work that the And that's the work that the And that's the work that the Holy Spirit does. Holy Spirit does. Holy Spirit does. It's the work of It's the work of It's the work of transformation. transformation. transformation. Yes. Yes. Yes. And you become more sensitive And you become more sensitive And you become more sensitive or vulnerable to or vulnerable to or vulnerable to different things now. different things now. different things now. Yes. Yes. Yes. And as I said, the things that And as I said, the things that you longed for, you you longed for, you you longed for, you don't long for as don't long for as don't long for as much anymore. And the things that you much anymore. And the things that you much anymore. And the things that you never longed for, you never longed for, you never longed for, you now desire. now desire. now desire. You notice that God You notice that God You notice that God changes and transforms changes and transforms changes and transforms you you as you say as you say one little yes one little yes one little yes after another to Him. And that's what I after another to Him. And that's what I after another to Him. And that's what I hope will inspire hope will inspire hope will inspire people in your story people in your story , because we often , because we often , because we often think of it as think of it as think of it as turning on a light. I turning on a light. I turning on a light. I was changed in an instant. was changed in an instant. was changed in an instant. I became a whole new I became a whole new I became a whole new person, and that's true. person, and that's true. person, and that's true. So whoever is in Christ is a So whoever is in Christ is a So whoever is in Christ is a new creation. But the way new creation. But the way new creation. But the way you feel it you feel it happens happens gradually, over gradually, over gradually, over time. So it's just time. So it's just time. So it's just one little yes one little yes one little yes at a time. It's a little at a time. It's a little yes to yes to yes to keep asking keep asking keep asking questions even questions even questions even if you don't find the if you don't find the if you don't find the answers. It's answers. It's answers. It's a little "yes" to a little "yes" to a little "yes" to continue a conversation continue a conversation continue a conversation with a friend who's with a friend who's with a friend who's talking to you about talking to you about talking to you about Jesus. It's a little "yes" Jesus. It's a little "yes" to pick up a Bible. It's a to pick up a Bible. It's a to pick up a Bible. It's a little "yes" to little "yes" to little "yes" to let that let that let that girl just girl just girl just come up to you and come up to you and come up to you and talk. It's talk. It's talk. It's a little "yes" to a little "yes" to a little "yes" to open up.

open up. open up. It's those little "yeses" It's those little "yeses" It's those little "yeses" that lead to that lead to that lead to such a big such a big such a big transformation, and transformation, and transformation, and then you look then you look then you look back and you're like, " back and you're like, " Wow, God, Wow, God, this is what You've been doing this is what You've been doing all along." all along." And you were able to be a And you were able to be a part of that part of that part of that story. And what story. And what story. And what amazes me is that amazes me is that amazes me is that you had your own you had your own you had your own path of little "yeses." path of little "yeses." And soon after you start you start you start really following really following really following Jesus and Jesus and Jesus and taking your taking your taking your faith seriously, God brings faith seriously, God brings faith seriously, God brings him into your life and him into your life and him into your life and you into his, and your you into his, and your you into his, and your relationship ends up relationship ends up relationship ends up changing in changing in different ways. You come different ways. You come different ways. You come to faith because He's to faith because He's to faith because He's leading you, and God leading you, and God leading you, and God uses him that way uses him that way uses him that way . But you're also . But you're also . But you're also transformed because transformed because transformed because you learn what it you learn what it you learn what it looks like in practice. looks like in practice. looks like in practice. I mean, this whole I mean, this whole I mean, this whole episode about episode about episode about reaching out to reaching out to reaching out to one person at a time one person at a time one person at a time and what it's like to and what it's like to live it out. live it out. live it out. And that's what you're doing. And that's what you're doing. And that's what you're doing. So I guess my So I guess my So I guess my question to you is, question to you is, question to you is, what have you learned what have you learned what have you learned in that process? You in that process? You in that process? You mentioned that you try to mentioned that you try to mentioned that you try to live like this: If you know live like this: If you know live like this: If you know me, you know Jesus, me, you know Jesus, me, you know Jesus, you try to live that way you try to live that way you try to live that way .

. What have you learned and how would What have you learned and how would you encourage you encourage you encourage people to people to people to share their faith? share their faith? share their faith? I'm sure you're I'm sure you're I'm sure you're scared to scared to scared to do that. I'm sure at do that. I'm sure at do that. I'm sure at that point you're that point you're that point you're trying to figure out trying to figure out where where where the conversation is, where the the conversation is, where the the conversation is, where the relationship is. relationship is. relationship is. Should I bring up Should I bring up Should I bring up Jesus? How will she Jesus? How will she Jesus? How will she react? react? react? Yes. What advice would you Yes. What advice would you Yes. What advice would you give? What have you learned from give? What have you learned from give? What have you learned from living a mission and living a mission and living a mission and being open to being open to being open to God God God using you using you using you in your daily in your daily in your daily life? life? life? Yes. What I often hear Yes. What I often hear Yes. What I often hear from other believers who are from other believers who are from other believers who are afraid or afraid or afraid or hesitant to talk hesitant to talk hesitant to talk about Jesus is, "Oh, I don't about Jesus is, "Oh, I don't about Jesus is, "Oh, I don't feel feel feel equipped enough to equipped enough to equipped enough to talk about Him,” talk about Him,” talk about Him,” or “I don’t or “I don’t or “I don’t know enough,” or “I’m too know enough,” or “I’m too know enough,” or “I’m too afraid of being afraid of being afraid of being judged or ridiculed judged or ridiculed .” And I feel the same way .” And I feel the same way .” And I feel the same way . It does . It does . It does n’t get easier. It doesn’t get n’t get easier. It doesn’t get n’t get easier. It doesn’t get easier easier easier because everyone is different. because everyone is different. because everyone is different. For example, before I would For example, before I would For example, before I would approach approach anyone, before I would talk anyone, before I would talk anyone, before I would talk to them, I would think, “Will to them, I would think, “Will to them, I would think, “Will I look like a I look like a I look like a fool?” fool?” fool?” But, you know, if you're going to But, you know, if you're going to But, you know, if you're going to look like a fool, look like a fool, look like a fool, it's better for it's better for it's better for Jesus' sake.

Jesus' sake. So over time, like So over time, like Paul Paul Paul did in prison, I did in prison, I did in prison, I pray for pray for pray for the courage and the boldness the courage and the boldness the courage and the boldness and to and to and to let the Holy let the Holy let the Holy Spirit... It's not me. It's the Spirit... It's not me. It's the Spirit... It's not me. It's the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit. But the real advice real advice real advice I would give is to I would give is to ask questions. ask questions. Yeah, the way she Yeah, the way she Yeah, the way she said, I didn't just said, I didn't just said, I didn't just dump everything on her dump everything on her dump everything on her at once. Don't do at once. Don't do at once. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. I've made that. I've made that. I've made those mistakes before. I'm those mistakes before. I'm those mistakes before. I'm so glad I didn't do that so glad I didn't do that so glad I didn't do that with her. with her. Because, you know, with the first Because, you know, with the first people I people I people I talked to, I wasn't talked to, I wasn't talked to, I wasn't trying, I wasn't trying, I wasn't trying, I wasn't talking to them talking to them to bring them to to bring them to Jesus. I wasn't Jesus. I wasn't Jesus. I wasn't trying to win a trying to win a trying to win a soul. I was trying to soul. I was trying to soul. I was trying to win an win an win an argument. argument. argument. Yeah. That's a big Yeah. That's a big Yeah. That's a big difference, difference, difference, and it's a very big and it's a very big and it's a very big difference. Fortunately, difference. Fortunately, difference. Fortunately, the people I made the people I made the people I made those mistakes with, they're my those mistakes with, they're my those mistakes with, they're my very good friends. very good friends. very good friends. So, they've been very So, they've been very So, they've been very kind, very kind, very kind, very patient with me, patient with me, patient with me, and I see them very and I see them very and I see them very often. So I have a often. So I have a often. So I have a chance to correct my chance to correct my chance to correct my mistakes from the past. mistakes from the past.

I think the best I think the best skill, as in skill, as in any communication, is to any communication, is to any communication, is to be a good be a good be a good listener, listener, to be able to ask to be able to ask the right questions, the right questions, the right questions, because then they will because then they will because then they will tell you, you will tell you, you will tell you, you will understand them better, and then you understand them better, and then you understand them better, and then you will know what to will know what to will know what to say. say. say. Mm. And you also have to Mm. And you also have to Mm. And you also have to know the Word well. know the Word well. Yeah. You should study how You should study how the church was formed, the church was formed, the church was formed, how how how the Bible was canonized, because how are you going the Bible was canonized, because how are you going the Bible was canonized, because how are you going to defend what you don't to defend what you don't to defend what you don't know? know? know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And how are you going to And how are you going to And how are you going to share what you don't share what you don't share what you don't know? Boy, know? Boy, know? Boy, study the Trinity. study the Trinity. study the Trinity. Learn what Learn what Learn what the Gospel is. Study the Gospel is. Study the Gospel is. Study the issue of the the issue of the the issue of the divinity of divinity of divinity of Christ. You have to Christ. You have to Christ. You have to defend it. defend it. defend it. And you don't always know And you don't always know And you don't always know all this from the all this from the all this from the beginning. beginning. beginning. And I didn't know. And I didn't know. And I didn't know. You didn't know. I learned You didn't know. I learned You didn't know. I learned from my mistakes. from my mistakes. from my mistakes. That's right. That's right. I remember a lot of I remember a lot of people asking me, "How does people asking me, "How does people asking me, "How does the Trinity work?" " the Trinity work?" " the Trinity work?" " Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And my first time was And my first time was And my first time was like, "uh..." like, "uh..." like, "uh..." it's like a bottle of shampoo, it's like a bottle of shampoo, it's like a bottle of shampoo, like... No, I'm kidding. I did like... No, I'm kidding. I did like... No, I'm kidding. I did n't say that. n't say that. n't say that. I was going to say that I was going to say that I was going to say that I've never heard of that before, I've never heard of that before, I've never heard of that before, like some "pro." like some "pro." No, I didn't say that.

No, I didn't say that. But I... But I... I definitely didn't I definitely didn't say that. I don't, I don't, I didn't say that. I don't, I don't, I didn't say that. I don't, I don't, I didn't say that. But I understand say that. But I understand say that. But I understand you, because I think, I think you, because I think, I think you, because I think, I think we... we... all we need is the Gospel that we is the Gospel that we is the Gospel that we have. have. have. The same Gospel that The same Gospel that The same Gospel that changed us. changed us. changed us. But in conversations But in conversations But in conversations , , , people are going to ask people are going to ask people are going to ask questions that you do questions that you do questions that you do n't have the answers to. n't have the answers to. n't have the answers to. Or they're Or they're Or they're going to say something or going to say something or going to say something or point out so- point out so- point out so- called contradictions called contradictions called contradictions or something that you're or something that you're or something that you're not even familiar with. And what not even familiar with. And what not even familiar with. And what you do in you do in you do in those moments is those moments is those moments is remember that remember that remember that salvation belongs to salvation belongs to salvation belongs to the Lord. That the Lord. That the Lord. That that person's salvation doesn't that person's salvation doesn't that person's salvation doesn't depend on you. And depend on you. And depend on you. And then you then you then you go back and go back and go back and do your do your do your homework. You homework. You homework. You might even say to that might even say to that might even say to that person, "Hey, I person, "Hey, I person, "Hey, I don't really I'm don't really I'm don't really I'm sure about that, sure about that, sure about that, but I'm ready to but I'm ready to but I'm ready to dig into it." dig into it." dig into it." If you're willing If you're willing If you're willing to continue the conversation to continue the conversation , you're growing in your , you're growing in your , you're growing in your ability to teach ability to teach ability to teach the Gospel. You're the Gospel. You're the Gospel. You're growing in your growing in your growing in your ability ability ability to answer those to answer those to answer those questions. You see questions. You see questions. You see how God uses how God uses how God uses the little that you have, that the little that you have, that the little that you have, that you offer to Him and to you offer to Him and to you offer to Him and to other people. I other people. I other people. I love that you've love that you've love that you've had that experience and had that experience and had that experience and grown in your grown in your grown in your confidence and your confidence and your confidence and your ability to share.

ability to share. ability to share. Yes. Yes. Yes. And you know that you're And you know that you're And you know that you're really empowered by the really empowered by the really empowered by the Holy Spirit. You Holy Spirit. You Holy Spirit. You know, Paul says, the know, Paul says, the know, Paul says, the Holy Spirit doesn't make Holy Spirit doesn't make Holy Spirit doesn't make us timid, He gives us timid, He gives us timid, He gives power and love and power and love and power and love and self-discipline. self-discipline. self-discipline. And, like in her case, And, like in her case, And, like in her case, I didn't have to I didn't have to I didn't have to do much. do much. do much. I just invited her I just invited her I just invited her to church. to church. to church. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that's all it And that's all it And that's all it took. I took. I took. I said no said no said no seventeen times, but I seventeen times, but I seventeen times, but I just... just... just... You know, don't worry You know, don't worry if you don't know what to if you don't know what to if you don't know what to say. Sometimes say. Sometimes say. Sometimes just just just an invitation is enough. an invitation is enough. an invitation is enough. An invitation works, An invitation works, An invitation works, or, let's say, or, let's say, or, let's say, just showing just showing just showing the other person that you the other person that you the other person that you care. care. care. You never know, You never know, You never know, the Lord can the Lord can the Lord can create something. anything create something. anything create something. anything from nothing. from nothing. from nothing. Don't complicate it. And Don't complicate it. And don't be afraid. don't be afraid. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's easier said than That's easier said than That's easier said than done. done. done. Don't let fear Don't let fear Don't let fear hold you back. hold you back. hold you back. Yes. I mean, Yes. I mean, Yes. I mean, Jano, what would Jano, what would Jano, what would your life be like if he had your life be like if he had your life be like if he had n't said, "Hey, do you want to n't said, "Hey, do you want to n't said, "Hey, do you want to go to church with me go to church with me go to church with me ?" ?" You know what I mean? You know what I mean? The Lord The Lord The Lord would use whatever He chose would use whatever He chose would use whatever He chose to use.

to use. to use. Yes. Yes. Yes. But it's so small. So But it's so small. So But it's so small. So this is the vision in Luke 5. this is the vision in Luke 5. Jesus says to Peter, " Let down your nets." Let down your nets." Let down your nets." This was This was This was everyday life for him. everyday life for him. everyday life for him. And he didn't even want to And he didn't even want to And he didn't even want to do it. do it. do it. Yes. Yes. Yes. But he did it. We But he did it. We But he did it. We keep saying that keep saying that keep saying that he couldn't even imagine he couldn't even imagine he couldn't even imagine what was what was what was ahead of him. Yes to ahead of him. Yes to ahead of him. Yes to Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Something so simple, Something so simple, Something so simple, so ordinary, so so ordinary, so so ordinary, so mundane. mundane. He couldn't He couldn't imagine standing in imagine standing in imagine standing in Acts 2, Acts 2, Acts 2, preaching his preaching his preaching his first sermon, and first sermon, and first sermon, and seeing all these seeing all these seeing all these people come to people come to people come to faith in Jesus, faith in Jesus, faith in Jesus, by asking that simple by asking that simple by asking that simple question, by starting a question, by starting a question, by starting a simple conversation, simple conversation, simple conversation, by directing them to by directing them to by directing them to Jesus, by inviting them to Jesus, by inviting them to Jesus, by inviting them to church. He had no idea church. He had no idea church. He had no idea . Let's . Let's go to a time go to a time when he's sitting next when he's sitting next when he's sitting next to you on a podcast, to you on a podcast, to you on a podcast, talking about talking about talking about what God has done in what God has done in what God has done in your life. That's your life. That's your life. That's the beauty and the paradox the beauty and the paradox the beauty and the paradox of the gospel, when of the gospel, when of the gospel, when the Scripture says that we the Scripture says that we the Scripture says that we have this treasure in have this treasure in have this treasure in earthen vessels, earthen vessels, earthen vessels, that we are weak, that we are weak, that we are weak, fragile, scared, fragile, scared, fragile, scared, imperfect. And God imperfect. And God imperfect. And God designed it so that designed it so that designed it so that when He works, He when He works, He when He works, He gets the glory.

gets the glory. You don't come to You don't come to church boasting, I church boasting, I church boasting, I know you don't. know you don't. know you don't. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Even though Even though Even though you were the instrument you were the instrument you were the instrument that God used, that God used, that God used, all the glory goes to all the glory goes to all the glory goes to God for what He has God for what He has God for what He has done in your life done in your life . So let me, . So let me, . So let me, let me give you the let me give you the let me give you the last word. We're last word. We're last word. We're talking about a mission talking about a mission to "reach everyone." to "reach everyone." to "reach everyone." Okay. Okay. Okay. Many of us have Many of us have Many of us have family members. We have family members. We have family members. We have friends. We have colleagues friends. We have colleagues friends. We have colleagues who are either not who are either not who are either not interested or interested or interested or their faith is a big their faith is a big their faith is a big deal. We may be deal. We may be deal. We may be afraid to say afraid to say afraid to say we're a Christian, or we're a Christian, or we're a Christian, or to start a conversation about to start a conversation about to start a conversation about faith, or to invite faith, or to invite faith, or to invite someone to church. What someone to church. What someone to church. What advice would you give to advice would you give to advice would you give to people who are hesitant to people who are hesitant to people who are hesitant to share their share their share their faith? faith? That's a good question. And That's a good question. And it's certainly a it's certainly a it's certainly a struggle that I, of course, have. struggle that I, of course, have. struggle that I, of course, have. went through it, like went through it, like went through it, like everyone else. Um. And like he everyone else. Um. And like he everyone else. Um. And like he said at the beginning, I said at the beginning, I said at the beginning, I was like, "Oh, I was like, "Oh, I was like, "Oh, I don't really know don't really know don't really know this, and that, and that."

this, and that, and that." But when I But when I took that took that took that step, it always step, it always step, it always paid off, paid off, paid off, no matter what the no matter what the no matter what the outcome. And I outcome. And I outcome. And I really think, and I really think, and I really think, and I kind of stand by what kind of stand by what kind of stand by what he said, because he he said, because he he said, because he said the right things. said the right things. said the right things. It's like, if you're It's like, if you're It's like, if you're wrong, it's okay wrong, it's okay wrong, it's okay ; ; ; they'll just say, they'll just say, they'll just say, "Oh, well, weird, "Oh, well, weird, "Oh, well, weird, whatever," or "Oh, whatever," or "Oh, whatever," or "Oh, you don't care," and you don't care," and you don't care," and life goes on. life goes on. life goes on. But if you're But if you're But if you're right, then someone's eternity is at stake right, then someone's eternity is at stake right, then someone's eternity is at stake . An . An . An eternity away from eternity away from eternity away from God is literally God is literally God is literally worse than death, because worse than death, because worse than death, because death is the end. death is the end. death is the end. And eternity goes on And eternity goes on And eternity goes on forever, so it's like, forever, so it's like, you know, it's you know, it's worth it, even if it's worth it, even if it's worth it, even if it's your family, because I don't your family, because I don't your family, because I don't know everybody's life, know everybody's life, know everybody's life, but I want to believe but I want to believe but I want to believe that you care about that you care about that you care about your loved ones. Do your loved ones. Do your loved ones. Do you want them to you want them to you want them to spend eternity spend eternity spend eternity away from God? It all away from God? It all away from God? It all starts with starts with starts with caring, compassion, caring, compassion, caring, compassion, which also which also which also happens when you happens when you happens when you get a new heart. get a new heart. You start You start caring about caring about caring about strangers as much as you care strangers as much as you care strangers as much as you care about your family, because about your family, because about your family, because your perspective your perspective your perspective changes. It's not changes. It's not changes. It's not just about this situation just about this situation just about this situation and what they and what they and what they think of you. It's think of you. It's think of you. It's about the far about the far about the far future. What's future. What's future. What's going to happen next?

going to happen next? going to happen next? Right? Do you want this Right? Do you want this Right? Do you want this person to end up in a person to end up in a person to end up in a bad place or a bad place or a bad place or a good place? And it's good place? And it's good place? And it's really hard. Um, and I really hard. Um, and I really hard. Um, and I feel like a lot of feel like a lot of feel like a lot of people, like me, think people, like me, think people, like me, think that you have to do something that you have to do something that you have to do something grand, that you grand, that you grand, that you have to be able to have to be able to have to be able to go up to someone and go up to someone and go up to someone and start preaching start preaching start preaching the Gospel, do this and that the Gospel, do this and that the Gospel, do this and that and the other thing, or and the other thing, or and the other thing, or go out on the streets, go out on the streets, go out on the streets, or do some or do some or do some big thing. But like big thing. But like big thing. But like he did, and like a lot of he did, and like a lot of he did, and like a lot of people I've heard of, people I've heard of, people I've heard of, most of the time it's just most of the time it's just most of the time it's just random conversations random conversations random conversations that you connect because, that you connect because, that you connect because, like you mentioned in like you mentioned in like you mentioned in the service, it's like. the service, it's like. and even on your and even on your podcast, everyone podcast, everyone podcast, everyone mentions that Christ mentions that Christ mentions that Christ has to be at the center. has to be at the center. has to be at the center. So if he's at the center So if he's at the center So if he's at the center and he's in every and he's in every and he's in every little things, whatever you little things, whatever you little things, whatever you talk about, it's always going to be talk about, it's always going to be talk about, it's always going to be connected to connected to connected to Christ. Christ. Christ. This tree is connected to This tree is connected to This tree is connected to Christ. Christ. Christ. We're connected to We're connected to We're connected to Christ because Christ because Christ because he's everything. So it's like he's everything. So it's like , you know, you , you know, you like to talk about like to talk about like to talk about your friends, why do your friends, why do your friends, why do n't you talk about n't you talk about n't you talk about your best your best your best friend? You know, friend? You know, friend? You know, it's like your it's like your it's like your best friend is Jesus best friend is Jesus best friend is Jesus Christ.

Christ. Christ. My best friend. My best friend. My best friend. Yeah. So, it's like when Yeah. So, it's like when Yeah. So, it's like when you start to think you start to think you start to think about it from a different about it from a different about it from a different angle. I feel like it's angle. I feel like it's angle. I feel like it's very easy to see very easy to see very easy to see something in a certain light something in a certain light , but all you have to , but all you have to , but all you have to do is change your do is change your do is change your perspective and it perspective and it perspective and it becomes less becomes less complicated, even though it complicated, even though it is complicated. You know is complicated. You know is complicated. You know what I mean? what I mean? what I mean? I get it. I get it. I get it. Um, so I don't even Um, so I don't even Um, so I don't even know if that was good know if that was good know if that was good advice. It's like it's advice. It's like it's advice. It's like it's not that complicated not that complicated not that complicated in the sense that you're not in the sense that you're not in the sense that you're not saving them. I feel like a saving them. I feel like a saving them. I feel like a lot of people, and I'm lot of people, and I'm lot of people, and I'm guilty of this, whether guilty of this, whether guilty of this, whether you like it or not, kind of you like it or not, kind of you like it or not, kind of put a burden on themselves put a burden on themselves put a burden on themselves when they when they when they come to come to come to evangelism. I'm saying evangelism. I'm saying , it's not your job. It's , it's not your job. It's , it's not your job. It's literally not your literally not your literally not your job. Um, it's job. Um, it's job. Um, it's God's job. Your job is God's job. Your job is just to testify just to testify just to testify of what He has done of what He has done of what He has done in your life. So in your life. So in your life. So even if you don't even if you don't even if you don't preach preach preach the Gospel in one the Gospel in one the Gospel in one sentence, it's more important sentence, it's more important sentence, it's more important who you call who you call who you call Christ and what He has Christ and what He has Christ and what He has done in your life done in your life , because just as he , because just as he , because just as he was asking me was asking me was asking me questions and drawing questions and drawing questions and drawing me in, he's not the one who me in, he's not the one who me in, he's not the one who saved me. God was saved me. God was saved me. God was already at work. I already at work. I already at work. I was already open to was already open to was already open to it, right? It was all it, right? It was all it, right? It was all happening.

happening. happening. All he had to All he had to All he had to do was do was do was just just just push me push me push me downstream. Um, so downstream. Um, so downstream. Um, so I think, just don't I think, just don't I think, just don't put the burden of put the burden of put the burden of salvation on yourself, because salvation on yourself, because salvation on yourself, because someone else has already taken that someone else has already taken that someone else has already taken that burden on themselves. burden on themselves. I like that. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have two more that I I have two more that I I have two more that I just thought of. just thought of. just thought of. You know, a lot of people You know, a lot of people You know, a lot of people have told me that they don't have told me that they don't have told me that they don't feel called, feel called, feel called, like, I don't feel like like, I don't feel like like, I don't feel like I'm supposed to do it. I I'm supposed to do it. I I'm supposed to do it. I don't feel like my don't feel like my don't feel like my calling is to calling is to evangelize or to evangelize or to evangelize or to tell people tell people tell people about Jesus. about Jesus. about Jesus. Well, we're all called to Well, we're all called to Well, we're all called to do that. The Great do that. The Great do that. The Great Commission is what Commission is what Commission is what we're all told to do we're all told to do we're all told to do . So we're . So we're . So we're called to take called to take called to take the Gospel to the ends of the Gospel to the ends of the Gospel to the ends of the earth. the earth. the earth. And the second thing is, if you don't And the second thing is, if you don't And the second thing is, if you don't know what to say, know what to say, know what to say, just share just share just share your testimony. your testimony. your testimony. Yeah. It's Yeah. It's Yeah. It's easy. It's easy. It's easy. It's okay not to okay not to okay not to know something. Um, it's know something. Um, it's know something. Um, it's okay not to know. It's okay not to know. It's okay not to know. It's better to know, but it's better to know, but it's better to know, but it's okay not to know. okay not to know. okay not to know. Be humble enough Be humble enough Be humble enough to admit that you don't to admit that you don't to admit that you don't know, but just know, but just know, but just share your share your share your testimony, because the Bible testimony, because the Bible testimony, because the Bible says that the Gospel is the says that the Gospel is the most powerful thing. most powerful thing. most powerful thing. The second most powerful The second most powerful The second most powerful thing after the Gospel thing after the Gospel is your testimony. It's the is your testimony. It's the is your testimony. It's the testimony of a believer.

testimony of a believer. testimony of a believer. So share it. Yeah. Yeah. So share it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I Yeah. I love it. love it. love it. It's like the blind man who It's like the blind man who It's like the blind man who was being questioned by the religious was being questioned by the religious was being questioned by the religious leaders, asking him leaders, asking him leaders, asking him all these questions, and he all these questions, and he all these questions, and he said, "I don't know." said, "I don't know." said, "I don't know." But what I do know But what I do know But what I do know is that I was blind, is that I was blind, is that I was blind, and now I see. and now I see. and now I see. Yeah. That's the story. Yeah. That's the story. Yeah. That's the story. That's the story. That's the story. That's the story. Thank you both, for Thank you both, for Thank you both, for sharing sharing sharing your story with us. It was your story with us. It was your story with us. It was very interesting. very interesting. very interesting. And, man, thank And, man, thank And, man, thank God for how He God for how He God for how He has changed you. has changed you. has changed you. And used you, and And used you, and And used you, and thank God for how thank God for how thank God for how He has changed you and is He has changed you and is He has changed you and is using you. So using you. So using you. So thank you both. thank you both. thank you both. Thank you. Thank you.