If I Had More Time | When I've Been Betrayed

Welcome to the If I Had More Time Welcome to the If I Had More Time podcast. So glad you guys are with us podcast. So glad you guys are with us podcast. So glad you guys are with us today. I'm here with our senior pastor, today. I'm here with our senior pastor, today. I'm here with our senior pastor, Eric Guyger, and Kevin Naylor. Do we Eric Guyger, and Kevin Naylor. Do we Eric Guyger, and Kevin Naylor. Do we need to tell them what what Kevin's need to tell them what what Kevin's need to tell them what what Kevin's title is right now? Right. Right now. title is right now? Right. Right now. title is right now? Right. Right now. >> Totally. So you uh if I had more time, >> Totally. So you uh if I had more time, >> Totally. So you uh if I had more time, podcast listeners are getting a preview podcast listeners are getting a preview podcast listeners are getting a preview over of this week and next week of of over of this week and next week of of over of this week and next week of of the podcast, which are [clears throat] the podcast, which are [clears throat] the podcast, which are [clears throat] really special. Next weekend is the really special. Next weekend is the really special. Next weekend is the weekend that we're going to announce our weekend that we're going to announce our weekend that we're going to announce our next two locations. next two locations. next two locations. >> And we thought, hey, let's have the lead >> And we thought, hey, let's have the lead >> And we thought, hey, let's have the lead pastors of both of those locations on pastors of both of those locations on pastors of both of those locations on two consecutive weeks. So that means two consecutive weeks. So that means two consecutive weeks. So that means that Kevin Naylor is going to be the that Kevin Naylor is going to be the that Kevin Naylor is going to be the lead pastor of a new Marinist lead pastor of a new Marinist lead pastor of a new Marinist congregation, which will launch in congregation, which will launch in congregation, which will launch in January. January. January. >> Are we telling them the city? >> Are we telling them the city? >> Are we telling them the city? >> We're going to tell them about Kevin >> We're going to tell them about Kevin >> We're going to tell them about Kevin first and then we're going to tell them. first and then we're going to tell them. first and then we're going to tell them. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Great. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Great. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Great. Okay. >> Well, at least at least what Kevin's >> Well, at least at least what Kevin's >> Well, at least at least what Kevin's been doing. been doing. been doing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So Kevin has been serving at Anaheim. So >> So Kevin has been serving at Anaheim. So >> So Kevin has been serving at Anaheim. So >> we had Mini on recently. >> we had Mini on recently. >> we had Mini on recently. >> How long ago was that? >> How long ago was that? >> How long ago was that? >> It was in numbers. So it's been it's >> It was in numbers. So it's been it's >> It was in numbers. So it's been it's been now a couple months. been now a couple months. been now a couple months. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> But our last teaching series was on.

>> But our last teaching series was on. >> But our last teaching series was on. He's the lead pastor at He's the lead pastor at He's the lead pastor at >> Mariners Anaheim. Mokei used to be the >> Mariners Anaheim. Mokei used to be the >> Mariners Anaheim. Mokei used to be the disciplehip pastor at Mariners's disciplehip pastor at Mariners's disciplehip pastor at Mariners's Oceanside and then we gave him the lead Oceanside and then we gave him the lead Oceanside and then we gave him the lead pastor role at Anaheim. pastor role at Anaheim. pastor role at Anaheim. >> Kevin Naylor is been has been the >> Kevin Naylor is been has been the >> Kevin Naylor is been has been the disciplehip pastor at um Anaheim. So if disciplehip pastor at um Anaheim. So if disciplehip pastor at um Anaheim. So if so we kind of joke with Mokei like so we kind of joke with Mokei like so we kind of joke with Mokei like >> man you can't complain cuz this is this >> man you can't complain cuz this is this >> man you can't complain cuz this is this is the same exact thing is the same exact thing is the same exact thing >> exactly and it's probably going to >> exactly and it's probably going to >> exactly and it's probably going to happen to me too [laughter] happen to me too [laughter] happen to me too [laughter] >> in a year from now you know >> in a year from now you know >> in a year from now you know >> but it did happen it did happen fast for >> but it did happen it did happen fast for >> but it did happen it did happen fast for you be but Rody who's our pastor you be but Rody who's our pastor you be but Rody who's our pastor executive pastor over multiplication and executive pastor over multiplication and executive pastor over multiplication and outreach when we were interviewing you outreach when we were interviewing you outreach when we were interviewing you you know 18 months or so ago he told me you know 18 months or so ago he told me you know 18 months or so ago he told me before I met with you he said hey before I met with you he said hey before I met with you he said hey interview him not only for a disciplehip interview him not only for a disciplehip interview him not only for a disciplehip pastor role, but I I think pastor role, but I I think pastor role, but I I think >> I think he let let's let him get into >> I think he let let's let him get into >> I think he let let's let him get into all that we do. I think he's going to all that we do. I think he's going to all that we do. I think he's going to end up being a lead pastor. So, Kevin, end up being a lead pastor. So, Kevin, end up being a lead pastor. So, Kevin, tell us about your family, about the tell us about your family, about the tell us about your family, about the time you've had at Mariners Anaheim, and time you've had at Mariners Anaheim, and time you've had at Mariners Anaheim, and then we're going to announce the then we're going to announce the then we're going to announce the location. I can't wait.

location. I can't wait. location. I can't wait. >> Yeah, the suspense is killing you. Where >> Yeah, the suspense is killing you. Where >> Yeah, the suspense is killing you. Where am I going? Yeah. am I going? Yeah. am I going? Yeah. >> Well, you know, [laughter] >> Well, you know, [laughter] >> Well, you know, [laughter] >> I'm about to announce live. >> I'm about to announce live. >> I'm about to announce live. >> Like, I do know you don't even For the >> Like, I do know you don't even For the >> Like, I do know you don't even For the record. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] It's been record. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] It's been record. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] It's been Well, I wouldn't do that to you. We we Well, I wouldn't do that to you. We we Well, I wouldn't do that to you. We we we actually K and I took you guys out to we actually K and I took you guys out to we actually K and I took you guys out to dinner and asked you to pray about dinner and asked you to pray about dinner and asked you to pray about >> great time. Yeah. >> great time. Yeah. >> great time. Yeah. >> Yeah. So it's not like we we don't treat >> Yeah. So it's not like we we don't treat >> Yeah. So it's not like we we don't treat people that way. And you're going here. people that way. And you're going here. people that way. And you're going here. Open the envelope. [laughter] Here's Open the envelope. [laughter] Here's Open the envelope. [laughter] Here's where you're going. where you're going. where you're going. >> That would be crazy though. >> That would be crazy though. >> That would be crazy though. >> Yeah. We don't do that. >> Yeah. We don't do that. >> Yeah. We don't do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. So um married to Ally. Uh >> Yeah. Yeah. So um married to Ally. Uh >> Yeah. Yeah. So um married to Ally. Uh we've been married for 13 years and uh we've been married for 13 years and uh we've been married for 13 years and uh we have three kids eight and under. Um we have three kids eight and under. Um we have three kids eight and under. Um >> and she grew up in Southern California. >> and she grew up in Southern California. >> and she grew up in Southern California. >> She did. Yeah. So she's from Riverside. >> She did. Yeah. So she's from Riverside. >> She did. Yeah. So she's from Riverside. I'm originally from Charlotte, North I'm originally from Charlotte, North I'm originally from Charlotte, North Carolina. And uh born and raised there. Carolina. And uh born and raised there. Carolina. And uh born and raised there. Um, my story in a nutshell is I'm Um, my story in a nutshell is I'm Um, my story in a nutshell is I'm essentially a product of the church essentially a product of the church essentially a product of the church coming to my neighborhood coming to my neighborhood coming to my neighborhood >> through just the people. So, think North >> through just the people. So, think North >> through just the people. So, think North Carolina, that's Bible belt. Um, and Carolina, that's Bible belt. Um, and Carolina, that's Bible belt. Um, and didn't grow up in the church, didn't grow up in the church, didn't grow up in the church, >> didn't have a Bible in our home, didn't >> didn't have a Bible in our home, didn't >> didn't have a Bible in our home, didn't care about this stuff, care about this stuff, care about this stuff, >> didn't know about this stuff. Yeah. >> didn't know about this stuff. Yeah. >> didn't know about this stuff. Yeah. >> Um, and a family moved into our >> Um, and a family moved into our >> Um, and a family moved into our neighborhood. They had kids the same age neighborhood. They had kids the same age neighborhood. They had kids the same age as me and my brothers. I was about 12, as me and my brothers. I was about 12, as me and my brothers. I was about 12, 13 at the time. And uh after a couple 13 at the time. And uh after a couple 13 at the time. And uh after a couple months they just the the their son months they just the the their son months they just the the their son Philip said, "Hey, do you want to come Philip said, "Hey, do you want to come Philip said, "Hey, do you want to come to youth group with me?" And I was like, to youth group with me?" And I was like, to youth group with me?" And I was like, "I don't know what a youth group is."

"I don't know what a youth group is." "I don't know what a youth group is." Wow. Wow. Wow. >> Um but sure, I'll come with you. And um >> Um but sure, I'll come with you. And um >> Um but sure, I'll come with you. And um heard the gospel, felt the love of of of heard the gospel, felt the love of of of heard the gospel, felt the love of of of Christ through the people, kept coming Christ through the people, kept coming Christ through the people, kept coming back, came to faith, and by the time I back, came to faith, and by the time I back, came to faith, and by the time I graduated high school, my entire family graduated high school, my entire family graduated high school, my entire family HAD COME TO FAITH AND GOTTEN baptized in HAD COME TO FAITH AND GOTTEN baptized in HAD COME TO FAITH AND GOTTEN baptized in this this church. And so [clears throat] this this church. And so [clears throat] this this church. And so [clears throat] yeah, I mean the what that did to me is yeah, I mean the what that did to me is yeah, I mean the what that did to me is it's like I think a lot of like our it's like I think a lot of like our it's like I think a lot of like our origin stories like in the early years origin stories like in the early years origin stories like in the early years of our life, it's like God's kind of of our life, it's like God's kind of of our life, it's like God's kind of pulling pulling back like a bow and pulling pulling back like a bow and pulling pulling back like a bow and arrow and like setting a direction. And arrow and like setting a direction. And arrow and like setting a direction. And so for me like that direction of that so for me like that direction of that so for me like that direction of that lived experience of of being someone who lived experience of of being someone who lived experience of of being someone who was completely disconnected from Jesus was completely disconnected from Jesus was completely disconnected from Jesus and yet like literally a minute away and yet like literally a minute away and yet like literally a minute away from the church that we all met Jesus in from the church that we all met Jesus in from the church that we all met Jesus in >> just put this desire in my heart to like >> just put this desire in my heart to like >> just put this desire in my heart to like pay it forward. Yeah. you know, pay it forward. Yeah. you know, pay it forward. Yeah. you know, particularly to even in context like God particularly to even in context like God particularly to even in context like God called us to be in Birmingham, Alabama called us to be in Birmingham, Alabama called us to be in Birmingham, Alabama for 12 years, which is a lot longer than for 12 years, which is a lot longer than for 12 years, which is a lot longer than I wanted to be there, but that's how I wanted to be there, but that's how I wanted to be there, but that's how long he had us there. And that context long he had us there. And that context long he had us there. And that context is kind of similar. Like you think it's is kind of similar. Like you think it's is kind of similar. Like you think it's all Christian, all Christian, all Christian, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Yeah. Some say it's the most churched >> Yeah. Some say it's the most churched >> Yeah. Some say it's the most churched city in America. city in America. city in America. >> And it might be it might be, but still >> And it might be it might be, but still >> And it might be it might be, but still shows even in the most church city in shows even in the most church city in shows even in the most church city in America, there's still a lot of people America, there's still a lot of people America, there's still a lot of people don't know.

don't know. don't know. >> Exactly. And I just think about >> Exactly. And I just think about >> Exactly. And I just think about >> little Kevin, his brother, his family >> little Kevin, his brother, his family >> little Kevin, his brother, his family just fell through the cracks. Um and so just fell through the cracks. Um and so just fell through the cracks. Um and so wanted to like be a part of like showing wanted to like be a part of like showing wanted to like be a part of like showing up for those people. up for those people. up for those people. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Man, that's great. And you were the >> Man, that's great. And you were the >> Man, that's great. And you were the college pastor for a while. college pastor for a while. college pastor for a while. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um >> in Birmingham, not here. >> in Birmingham, not here. >> in Birmingham, not here. >> Yes. So, grew up in Charlotte. Um ended >> Yes. So, grew up in Charlotte. Um ended >> Yes. So, grew up in Charlotte. Um ended up going to California Baptist up going to California Baptist up going to California Baptist University in Riverside. Studied University in Riverside. Studied University in Riverside. Studied theology ministry there. Uh that's where theology ministry there. Uh that's where theology ministry there. Uh that's where I met my wife. We got married. Uh moved I met my wife. We got married. Uh moved I met my wife. We got married. Uh moved out to Birmingham to go to seminary. out to Birmingham to go to seminary. out to Birmingham to go to seminary. Went to uh Beast and Divinity School. Went to uh Beast and Divinity School. Went to uh Beast and Divinity School. >> Great school. >> Great school. >> Great school. >> Yeah. Loved it. It's great. And um then >> Yeah. Loved it. It's great. And um then >> Yeah. Loved it. It's great. And um then we became I became the college pastor at we became I became the college pastor at we became I became the college pastor at a church out there and then Shades a church out there and then Shades a church out there and then Shades Mountain. Mountain. Mountain. >> Shades Mountain. Yep. >> Shades Mountain. Yep. >> Shades Mountain. Yep. >> And so that's >> And so that's >> And so that's >> incredible memory. You are right. >> incredible memory. You are right. >> incredible memory. You are right. >> Yeah. I I mean forget that I when I was >> Yeah. I I mean forget that I when I was >> Yeah. I I mean forget that I when I was in Nashville, I did some I did multiple in Nashville, I did some I did multiple in Nashville, I did some I did multiple things down in Birmingham. It's like a things down in Birmingham. It's like a things down in Birmingham. It's like a two-hour drive. And I did some stuff at two-hour drive. And I did some stuff at two-hour drive. And I did some stuff at Shades. They call it Shades. Shades. They call it Shades. Shades. They call it Shades. >> Yeah. Shades. There was a lot of Shades >> Yeah. Shades. There was a lot of Shades >> Yeah. Shades. There was a lot of Shades churches like Shades Valley, Shades churches like Shades Valley, Shades churches like Shades Valley, Shades Mountain, this but we were Shades. We Mountain, this but we were Shades. We Mountain, this but we were Shades. We had Shades.org. had Shades.org. had Shades.org. >> Yeah. [clears throat] You own the site? >> Yeah. [clears throat] You own the site? >> Yeah. [clears throat] You own the site? >> We did. So >> We did. So >> We did. So >> yeah, it's kind of a flex. Um but uh >> yeah, it's kind of a flex. Um but uh >> yeah, it's kind of a flex. Um but uh yes, and then God called us to plant a yes, and then God called us to plant a yes, and then God called us to plant a church in downtown Birmingham. Um and church in downtown Birmingham. Um and church in downtown Birmingham. Um and that church sent us out and uh it was that church sent us out and uh it was that church sent us out and uh it was focused on reaching college students. It focused on reaching college students. It focused on reaching college students. It was a university that was uh where a lot was a university that was uh where a lot was a university that was uh where a lot of students went that didn't want to go of students went that didn't want to go of students went that didn't want to go to Auburn, Alabama. So it was kind of a to Auburn, Alabama. So it was kind of a to Auburn, Alabama. So it was kind of a unique kind of the weird crowd. I was unique kind of the weird crowd. I was unique kind of the weird crowd. I was like, "Ah, I don't want to do that." And like, "Ah, I don't want to do that." And like, "Ah, I don't want to do that." And then I realized I'm the weird crowd. So then I realized I'm the weird crowd. So then I realized I'm the weird crowd. So it made sense. And then God through it made sense. And then God through it made sense. And then God through COVID when the university shut down and COVID when the university shut down and COVID when the university shut down and we had just launched like three months we had just launched like three months we had just launched like three months before that before that before that >> kind of opened our eyes Yeah. to um the

>> kind of opened our eyes Yeah. to um the >> kind of opened our eyes Yeah. to um the homeless in downtown because we started homeless in downtown because we started homeless in downtown because we started meeting in a pavilion in a park, meeting in a pavilion in a park, meeting in a pavilion in a park, >> meeting in a guy's house basically who >> meeting in a guy's house basically who >> meeting in a guy's house basically who was living at the park. Yeah. And um so was living at the park. Yeah. And um so was living at the park. Yeah. And um so we just we were a church that was like we just we were a church that was like we just we were a church that was like campus city and um and then God after uh campus city and um and then God after uh campus city and um and then God after uh you about six years of that you about six years of that you about six years of that >> started redirecting our hearts back here >> started redirecting our hearts back here >> started redirecting our hearts back here to Southern California to Southern California to Southern California >> and that's how we landed at Mariners at >> and that's how we landed at Mariners at >> and that's how we landed at Mariners at Anaheim. Anaheim. Anaheim. >> So >> So >> So >> it's awesome. >> it's awesome. >> it's awesome. >> Yeah. and and I'll see like there was a >> Yeah. and and I'll see like there was a >> Yeah. and and I'll see like there was a a an Anaheim school district that uh a an Anaheim school district that uh a an Anaheim school district that uh posted a picture of how thankful they posted a picture of how thankful they posted a picture of how thankful they are for Mariners's church for for things are for Mariners's church for for things are for Mariners's church for for things that we've done for some schools in that we've done for some schools in that we've done for some schools in Anaheim. And so I'm zooming in on the Anaheim. And so I'm zooming in on the Anaheim. And so I'm zooming in on the picture and there's Kevin in the picture and there's Kevin in the picture and there's Kevin in the picture. Um so you've been a part of picture. Um so you've been a part of picture. Um so you've been a part of really serving the city of Anaheim. really serving the city of Anaheim. really serving the city of Anaheim. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> For the last 18 months >> For the last 18 months >> For the last 18 months >> and really thankful for that. >> and really thankful for that. >> and really thankful for that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. as the disciplehip pastor, you >> Yeah. as the disciplehip pastor, you >> Yeah. as the disciplehip pastor, you would have led um they're an out one of would have led um they're an out one of would have led um they're an out one of our outreach hubs which we learned about our outreach hubs which we learned about our outreach hubs which we learned about last year in seek the good around this last year in seek the good around this last year in seek the good around this time. time. time. >> Food pantry there, clothing closet. I >> Food pantry there, clothing closet. I >> Food pantry there, clothing closet. I mean, mean, mean, >> amazing >> amazing >> amazing >> amazing ways to serve that city in an >> amazing ways to serve that city in an >> amazing ways to serve that city in an important city, Anaheim, you know, in in important city, Anaheim, you know, in in important city, Anaheim, you know, in in Orange County. Really, really thankful Orange County. Really, really thankful Orange County. Really, really thankful for for for >> our congregation there. I I mentioned >> our congregation there. I I mentioned >> our congregation there. I I mentioned that you were a college pastor because that you were a college pastor because that you were a college pastor because it was kind of a leadin it was kind of a leadin it was kind of a leadin >> to the next location. I'm trying to find >> to the next location. I'm trying to find >> to the next location. I'm trying to find a thread.

a thread. a thread. >> Good. That's good. Not that not that um >> Good. That's good. Not that not that um >> Good. That's good. Not that not that um it's only a college town where where it's only a college town where where it's only a college town where where we're going to have you, but it does we're going to have you, but it does we're going to have you, but it does have a a great university there that have a a great university there that have a a great university there that that we have a lot of respect for and we that we have a lot of respect for and we that we have a lot of respect for and we we love we would love to serve that we love we would love to serve that we love we would love to serve that university even more. So Liz, where's university even more. So Liz, where's university even more. So Liz, where's Kevin going to be the lead pastor? Kevin going to be the lead pastor? Kevin going to be the lead pastor? >> The beautiful city of Lamarada. >> The beautiful city of Lamarada. >> The beautiful city of Lamarada. >> Lamarada, ladies and gentlemen. >> Lamarada, ladies and gentlemen. >> Lamarada, ladies and gentlemen. >> Merida's Lamarada is going to start in >> Merida's Lamarada is going to start in >> Merida's Lamarada is going to start in January of 27th. January of 27th. January of 27th. >> It's amazing. It's amazing. >> It's amazing. It's amazing. >> It's amazing. It's amazing. >> We're so so excited. Yeah. So excited >> We're so so excited. Yeah. So excited >> We're so so excited. Yeah. So excited about about about >> Yeah. like you said the the college >> Yeah. like you said the the college >> Yeah. like you said the the college students, the the university, but and students, the the university, but and students, the the university, but and also like the young families that are also like the young families that are also like the young families that are moving and staying or moving and staying or moving and staying or >> moving in there and then even like the >> moving in there and then even like the >> moving in there and then even like the long-term residents that have been there long-term residents that have been there long-term residents that have been there for there's a huge population of that. for there's a huge population of that. for there's a huge population of that. So, it's a it's really beautiful, lovely So, it's a it's really beautiful, lovely So, it's a it's really beautiful, lovely >> uh multigenerational city. >> uh multigenerational city. >> uh multigenerational city. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Really cool. >> Yeah. Really cool. >> Yeah. Really cool. >> That's awesome. What What What are you >> That's awesome. What What What are you >> That's awesome. What What What are you most excited about about La Marada? Not most excited about about La Marada? Not most excited about about La Marada? Not not not just the church, but even the not not just the church, but even the not not just the church, but even the city. What I know I know that as we city. What I know I know that as we city. What I know I know that as we talked you you would drive there you talked you you would drive there you talked you you would drive there you would pray over the city.

would pray over the city. would pray over the city. >> What what things about the city were you >> What what things about the city were you >> What what things about the city were you like I like this like I really I love like I like this like I really I love like I like this like I really I love this. this. this. >> I So [clears throat] having lived in >> I So [clears throat] having lived in >> I So [clears throat] having lived in Anaheim now for the last year and a half Anaheim now for the last year and a half Anaheim now for the last year and a half and kind of like central Anaheim pretty and kind of like central Anaheim pretty and kind of like central Anaheim pretty urban part of Anaheim. One thing that we urban part of Anaheim. One thing that we urban part of Anaheim. One thing that we my wife and I pretty quickly like fell my wife and I pretty quickly like fell my wife and I pretty quickly like fell in love with was like it's it's kind of in love with was like it's it's kind of in love with was like it's it's kind of like a community unto itself because like a community unto itself because like a community unto itself because it's it's not off of a major like it's it's not off of a major like it's it's not off of a major like interstate, you know? So you kind of interstate, you know? So you kind of interstate, you know? So you kind of have to try to go there, you know, like have to try to go there, you know, like have to try to go there, you know, like >> for the most part, people don't just >> for the most part, people don't just >> for the most part, people don't just like go to Lamarada for dinner, you like go to Lamarada for dinner, you like go to Lamarada for dinner, you know? So like if you're there, it's like know? So like if you're there, it's like know? So like if you're there, it's like you're it's you're there. It's like it's you're it's you're there. It's like it's you're it's you're there. It's like it's where your kids go to school, it's where where your kids go to school, it's where where your kids go to school, it's where you live. you live. you live. >> Um and so very different than a place >> Um and so very different than a place >> Um and so very different than a place like Anaheim. We got Disneyland like two like Anaheim. We got Disneyland like two like Anaheim. We got Disneyland like two minutes from where we live, you know? minutes from where we live, you know? minutes from where we live, you know? It's like everybody comes through, you It's like everybody comes through, you It's like everybody comes through, you know, and this is like, no, this the know, and this is like, no, this the know, and this is like, no, this the people that are here are here. So that's people that are here are here. So that's people that are here are here. So that's something that is really exciting to me something that is really exciting to me something that is really exciting to me about the next chapter. about the next chapter. about the next chapter. >> That's great. That's great. Well, I'm >> That's great. That's great. Well, I'm >> That's great. That's great. Well, I'm excited, man. Thanks for thanks for excited, man. Thanks for thanks for excited, man. Thanks for thanks for saying yes. saying yes. saying yes. >> Oh, man. We're honored. We're excited. >> Oh, man. We're honored. We're excited. >> Oh, man. We're honored. We're excited. Yeah. All right. And so next week you'll Yeah. All right. And so next week you'll Yeah. All right. And so next week you'll hear um the second location that we're hear um the second location that we're hear um the second location that we're launching in in 27. But please be launching in in 27. But please be launching in in 27. But please be praying about praying about praying about >> Lam Marada and Ke Pray for Kevin and >> Lam Marada and Ke Pray for Kevin and >> Lam Marada and Ke Pray for Kevin and Ally and their three kids. And Ally and their three kids. And Ally and their three kids. And >> it's exciting.

>> it's exciting. >> it's exciting. >> They're an amazing family. Ally is the >> They're an amazing family. Ally is the >> They're an amazing family. Ally is the best. best. best. >> She is. >> She is. >> She is. >> My wife says the same. >> My wife says the same. >> My wife says the same. >> She's really great. >> She's really great. >> She's really great. >> She is. She's the secret weapon. >> She is. She's the secret weapon. >> She is. She's the secret weapon. >> I I know I know what it's like to be >> I I know I know what it's like to be >> I I know I know what it's like to be married to a secret weapon. Yeah, married to a secret weapon. Yeah, married to a secret weapon. Yeah, >> you do both have secret weapons. That's >> you do both have secret weapons. That's >> you do both have secret weapons. That's good. good. good. >> Well, Kevin, thanks so much for joining >> Well, Kevin, thanks so much for joining >> Well, Kevin, thanks so much for joining us. We're in week four of our series. I us. We're in week four of our series. I us. We're in week four of our series. I can hardly believe that we're almost can hardly believe that we're almost can hardly believe that we're almost through August when and our series when through August when and our series when through August when and our series when life doesn't make sense. life doesn't make sense. life doesn't make sense. >> Looking at the stories beneath the >> Looking at the stories beneath the >> Looking at the stories beneath the Psalms, Psalms, Psalms, >> this weekend's message is amazing. And >> this weekend's message is amazing. And >> this weekend's message is amazing. And I'm I'm so looking forward to just I'm I'm so looking forward to just I'm I'm so looking forward to just seeing our church respond and um to feel seeing our church respond and um to feel seeing our church respond and um to feel the care too of this passage. And the care too of this passage. And the care too of this passage. And >> um gosh, there's just there's so much >> um gosh, there's just there's so much >> um gosh, there's just there's so much throughout the series so far to throughout the series so far to throughout the series so far to celebrate. I mean, how how does it feel celebrate. I mean, how how does it feel celebrate. I mean, how how does it feel to you, Eric, being in week four and to you, Eric, being in week four and to you, Eric, being in week four and everything that you've seen God do? I I everything that you've seen God do? I I everything that you've seen God do? I I had a a sense when gosh it's been a year had a a sense when gosh it's been a year had a a sense when gosh it's been a year since we mapped the series out, but I since we mapped the series out, but I since we mapped the series out, but I really did believe that this would be a really did believe that this would be a really did believe that this would be a very pastoral loving shephering series very pastoral loving shephering series very pastoral loving shephering series for our people for our people for our people >> and that the Psalms would would come >> and that the Psalms would would come >> and that the Psalms would would come alive when you see the stories beneath alive when you see the stories beneath alive when you see the stories beneath them. And we have we've offered prayer them. And we have we've offered prayer them. And we have we've offered prayer three of the four weeks extended prayer.

three of the four weeks extended prayer. three of the four weeks extended prayer. We did an I believe one of the weeks. We did an I believe one of the weeks. We did an I believe one of the weeks. And so we've just seen And so we've just seen And so we've just seen >> God do a lot of really beautiful work in >> God do a lot of really beautiful work in >> God do a lot of really beautiful work in people's lives, people's lives, people's lives, >> which I fully believed he was going to >> which I fully believed he was going to >> which I fully believed he was going to do because of the power of these psalms, do because of the power of these psalms, do because of the power of these psalms, you know. you know. you know. >> Yeah. Right. It's absolutely this >> Yeah. Right. It's absolutely this >> Yeah. Right. It's absolutely this weekend. No exception. Um this week on weekend. No exception. Um this week on weekend. No exception. Um this week on betrayal. Yep. betrayal. Yep. betrayal. Yep. >> Gosh. um the pain and strife of >> Gosh. um the pain and strife of >> Gosh. um the pain and strife of relationships. You know, it's something relationships. You know, it's something relationships. You know, it's something that we've all experienced at some that we've all experienced at some that we've all experienced at some point, whether right now or maybe in point, whether right now or maybe in point, whether right now or maybe in more distant past or maybe it's coming more distant past or maybe it's coming more distant past or maybe it's coming soon. So, this this is helpful and um soon. So, this this is helpful and um soon. So, this this is helpful and um I'm just so grateful for how you I'm just so grateful for how you I'm just so grateful for how you unpacked this psalm. If you had had more unpacked this psalm. If you had had more unpacked this psalm. If you had had more time in this weekend's message, what time in this weekend's message, what time in this weekend's message, what would you have spent a little more on? would you have spent a little more on? would you have spent a little more on? >> There there is, >> There there is, >> There there is, and I love this about the scripture, and I love this about the scripture, and I love this about the scripture, there's complexity in the story. there's complexity in the story. there's complexity in the story. >> Yeah. So >> Yeah. So >> Yeah. So you could you could you could articulate though David is praying as if articulate though David is praying as if articulate though David is praying as if he's the one who's being hunted and he he's the one who's being hunted and he he's the one who's being hunted and he is that is true but I am sure the other is that is true but I am sure the other is that is true but I am sure the other side of the story had can you believe side of the story had can you believe side of the story had can you believe David did this you know ahitaphold would David did this you know ahitaphold would David did this you know ahitaphold would be able to talk about how Uriah was be able to talk about how Uriah was be able to talk about how Uriah was killed by David killed by David killed by David >> so I shared last week as we were looking >> so I shared last week as we were looking >> so I shared last week as we were looking at David's story in 2 Samuel 11 and2 at David's story in 2 Samuel 11 and2 at David's story in 2 Samuel 11 and2 that we would see some fallout.

that we would see some fallout. that we would see some fallout. There's at least some kind of dotted There's at least some kind of dotted There's at least some kind of dotted line here. May not be a straight hard line here. May not be a straight hard line here. May not be a straight hard line from that moment to a Hitell, but line from that moment to a Hitell, but line from that moment to a Hitell, but there's definitely some there's got to there's definitely some there's got to there's definitely some there's got to be some justifiable be some justifiable be some justifiable >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> anger that a a Hitell has towards David >> anger that a a Hitell has towards David >> anger that a a Hitell has towards David and that Abselum has towards David. and that Abselum has towards David. and that Abselum has towards David. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> With how David didn't act as Abselum >> With how David didn't act as Abselum >> With how David didn't act as Abselum thought he should against the one who thought he should against the one who thought he should against the one who sexually abused sexually abused sexually abused >> Abselum's sister. I there there's you're >> Abselum's sister. I there there's you're >> Abselum's sister. I there there's you're you're you are just seeing and then some you're you are just seeing and then some you're you are just seeing and then some some would say one of the reasons that some would say one of the reasons that some would say one of the reasons that David didn't act that way is because he David didn't act that way is because he David didn't act that way is because he too had been someone who took advantage too had been someone who took advantage too had been someone who took advantage of people and then felt like he couldn't of people and then felt like he couldn't of people and then felt like he couldn't because he was that kind of person as because he was that kind of person as because he was that kind of person as well. So again there's we're talking well. So again there's we're talking well. So again there's we're talking about all the kind of layers here. It it about all the kind of layers here. It it about all the kind of layers here. It it would be hard to uh say that David's would be hard to uh say that David's would be hard to uh say that David's fully innocent. fully innocent. fully innocent. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> You know, >> You know, >> right? So, I don't want I want to be >> right? So, I don't want I want to be >> right? So, I don't want I want to be careful that we're not but it doesn't careful that we're not but it doesn't careful that we're not but it doesn't mean that his prayer is is not really mean that his prayer is is not really mean that his prayer is is not really really um honest and beautiful and still really um honest and beautiful and still really um honest and beautiful and still true because it's in God's word of yes true because it's in God's word of yes true because it's in God's word of yes of how you can cast your burdens on him.

of how you can cast your burdens on him. of how you can cast your burdens on him. So, it it actually really the complexity So, it it actually really the complexity So, it it actually really the complexity of the account makes it more beautiful of the account makes it more beautiful of the account makes it more beautiful that that that >> you don't have to be perfect to then be >> you don't have to be perfect to then be >> you don't have to be perfect to then be able to pray to God when you feel the able to pray to God when you feel the able to pray to God when you feel the sting of betrayal. So, it's not it's not sting of betrayal. So, it's not it's not sting of betrayal. So, it's not it's not like, like, like, >> well, I don't know. I don't know if I >> well, I don't know. I don't know if I >> well, I don't know. I don't know if I can go to God with this cuz I think I can go to God with this cuz I think I can go to God with this cuz I think I was part of the problem, too. was part of the problem, too. was part of the problem, too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You may very well be part of the >> You may very well be part of the >> You may very well be part of the problem, problem, problem, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And we know that often times when >> And we know that often times when >> And we know that often times when there's relational fallout, it's not there's relational fallout, it's not there's relational fallout, it's not it's not a sometimes it's 100% one it's not a sometimes it's 100% one it's not a sometimes it's 100% one person and 0% someone. I mean, sometimes person and 0% someone. I mean, sometimes person and 0% someone. I mean, sometimes there's someone who abuses and there's someone who abuses and there's someone who abuses and >> takes advantage of people and the other >> takes advantage of people and the other >> takes advantage of people and the other person is fully innocent. Oftenimes person is fully innocent. Oftenimes person is fully innocent. Oftenimes though when there's relational struggles though when there's relational struggles though when there's relational struggles whether that's in a marriage or parents whether that's in a marriage or parents whether that's in a marriage or parents and kids or good friends or colleagues and kids or good friends or colleagues and kids or good friends or colleagues oftentimes there's oftentimes there's oftentimes there's there's mistakes and there's mistakes and there's mistakes and um um um not perfect behavior on both sides. not perfect behavior on both sides. not perfect behavior on both sides. >> Of course, you know.

>> Of course, you know. >> Of course, you know. >> Yeah. It's so comforting seeing that >> Yeah. It's so comforting seeing that >> Yeah. It's so comforting seeing that like it's hard to say, you know, David's like it's hard to say, you know, David's like it's hard to say, you know, David's a purely innocent one. a purely innocent one. a purely innocent one. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> No, he's not. Yeah. So, I if I would >> No, he's not. Yeah. So, I if I would >> No, he's not. Yeah. So, I if I would have had more time, I would have built have had more time, I would have built have had more time, I would have built the case um of the case um of the case um of part of this is the fallout of David's part of this is the fallout of David's part of this is the fallout of David's choices. choices. choices. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'm not saying that he should have been >> I'm not saying that he should have been >> I'm not saying that he should have been walking barefoot as the king. That was walking barefoot as the king. That was walking barefoot as the king. That was wrong, wrong, wrong, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> You know, like the coup was wrong. Yeah. >> You know, like the coup was wrong. Yeah. >> You know, like the coup was wrong. Yeah. >> But some of it's the natural fallout of >> But some of it's the natural fallout of >> But some of it's the natural fallout of some of his choices. some of his choices. some of his choices. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think like that's >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think like that's >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think like that's kind of what I think one of the things kind of what I think one of the things kind of what I think one of the things that makes forgiveness hard. I think that makes forgiveness hard. I think that makes forgiveness hard. I think there's a lot of things that make there's a lot of things that make there's a lot of things that make forgiveness hard, forgiveness hard, forgiveness hard, >> but one of them is >> but one of them is >> but one of them is >> being able to be honest with ourselves >> being able to be honest with ourselves >> being able to be honest with ourselves about what part we might have played about what part we might have played about what part we might have played >> um in this the situation. You're exactly >> um in this the situation. You're exactly >> um in this the situation. You're exactly right. You can't say that for everything right. You can't say that for everything right. You can't say that for everything because there are very clear times when because there are very clear times when because there are very clear times when that's not the case. It's you've just that's not the case. It's you've just that's not the case. It's you've just been sinned against period. You didn't been sinned against period. You didn't been sinned against period. You didn't do anything. do anything. do anything. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> But there was a really like difficult >> But there was a really like difficult >> But there was a really like difficult season I was coming out of at one point. season I was coming out of at one point. season I was coming out of at one point. And as I was transitioning into the And as I was transitioning into the And as I was transitioning into the next, I I wrote down the names of next, I I wrote down the names of next, I I wrote down the names of everyone that I I realized I was having everyone that I I realized I was having everyone that I I realized I was having bitterness in my heart towards.

bitterness in my heart towards. bitterness in my heart towards. >> And there were 17 people on the list, >> And there were 17 people on the list, >> And there were 17 people on the list, and I was like, man, that's no wonder my and I was like, man, that's no wonder my and I was like, man, that's no wonder my heart's like heavy. Yeah. heart's like heavy. Yeah. heart's like heavy. Yeah. >> And >> And >> And >> that's one more than Kendrick Lamar. >> that's one more than Kendrick Lamar. >> that's one more than Kendrick Lamar. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> That's That's so good, >> That's That's so good, >> That's That's so good, >> man. >> man. >> man. >> So glad you brought that up. >> So glad you brought that up. >> So glad you brought that up. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> I'm wor I'm worse than Kendrick Lamar, >> I'm wor I'm worse than Kendrick Lamar, >> I'm wor I'm worse than Kendrick Lamar, so I've survived more than him. Um and so I've survived more than him. Um and so I've survived more than him. Um and and I was talking to um my counselor's and I was talking to um my counselor's and I was talking to um my counselor's super godly guy, pastoral counselor, and super godly guy, pastoral counselor, and super godly guy, pastoral counselor, and he kind of just walked me through like a he kind of just walked me through like a he kind of just walked me through like a framework for forgiveness. And one of framework for forgiveness. And one of framework for forgiveness. And one of the parts was just asking myself the the parts was just asking myself the the parts was just asking myself the question like did I play any part in question like did I play any part in question like did I play any part in this? And and for a lot of people was this? And and for a lot of people was this? And and for a lot of people was like no. Like I was just but for some like no. Like I was just but for some like no. Like I was just but for some the answer was yes. And that like was a the answer was yes. And that like was a the answer was yes. And that like was a part of part of part of >> unlocking like oh wow like that actually >> unlocking like oh wow like that actually >> unlocking like oh wow like that actually really helped me forgive that person really helped me forgive that person really helped me forgive that person because I realized because I realized because I realized >> I wasn't simless in that. did. So, I'm >> I wasn't simless in that. did. So, I'm >> I wasn't simless in that. did. So, I'm curious and hopefully this is not too on curious and hopefully this is not too on curious and hopefully this is not too on the spot. Was it easier to forgive the the spot. Was it easier to forgive the the spot. Was it easier to forgive the person who you as you were doing some person who you as you were doing some person who you as you were doing some deep dives into your own heart that you deep dives into your own heart that you deep dives into your own heart that you realized you had had a part of the realized you had had a part of the realized you had had a part of the relational deterioration? relational deterioration? relational deterioration? >> It was okay. It was because I I find for >> It was okay. It was because I I find for >> It was okay. It was because I I find for myself when I like get into that myself when I like get into that myself when I like get into that bitterness mode, I just go to like bitterness mode, I just go to like bitterness mode, I just go to like victim mentality. Yeah. You know, like, victim mentality. Yeah. You know, like, victim mentality. Yeah. You know, like, oh man, they just did all this against oh man, they just did all this against oh man, they just did all this against me, all this.

me, all this. me, all this. >> And for those ones where it's like, I >> And for those ones where it's like, I >> And for those ones where it's like, I did something, too. And I've kind of did something, too. And I've kind of did something, too. And I've kind of been like turning the volume down on been like turning the volume down on been like turning the volume down on that. It It did help. Yeah. So I think that. It It did help. Yeah. So I think that. It It did help. Yeah. So I think Yeah. Just like Yeah. Just like Yeah. Just like >> going through that kind of stuff helps >> going through that kind of stuff helps >> going through that kind of stuff helps you helps you forgive. you helps you forgive. you helps you forgive. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And the forgiveness part is though >> Yeah. And the forgiveness part is though >> Yeah. And the forgiveness part is though it's not easy, it's so necessary. it's not easy, it's so necessary. it's not easy, it's so necessary. Otherwise Otherwise Otherwise the bitterness will cons continue to the bitterness will cons continue to the bitterness will cons continue to grow in our own hearts. grow in our own hearts. grow in our own hearts. >> And the the painfully ironic thing is >> And the the painfully ironic thing is >> And the the painfully ironic thing is the person that we are bitter towards, the person that we are bitter towards, the person that we are bitter towards, they might not even be thinking about us they might not even be thinking about us they might not even be thinking about us at all. at all. at all. >> Probably not. >> Probably not. >> Probably not. >> They have moved on. >> They have moved on. >> They have moved on. >> Yeah. And we're the ones who were dying >> Yeah. And we're the ones who were dying >> Yeah. And we're the ones who were dying on the inside. on the inside. on the inside. >> It's like we think we're hurting them >> It's like we think we're hurting them >> It's like we think we're hurting them and doing it. And it's like Yeah. and doing it. And it's like Yeah. and doing it. And it's like Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We think that we're um >> Yeah. We think that we're um >> Yeah. We think that we're um some kind of way causing them to some kind of way causing them to some kind of way causing them to experience some justice. experience some justice. experience some justice. >> But we're the ones who is who are >> But we're the ones who is who are >> But we're the ones who is who are experiencing the devastating experiencing the devastating experiencing the devastating weight of bitterness. weight of bitterness. weight of bitterness. >> Yeah. Yeah. There's uh in David's prayer >> Yeah. Yeah. There's uh in David's prayer >> Yeah. Yeah. There's uh in David's prayer in in Psalm 55, he kind of goes off in in in Psalm 55, he kind of goes off in in in Psalm 55, he kind of goes off in two two little like wandering things two two little like wandering things two two little like wandering things that you pointed out. One was his prayer that you pointed out. One was his prayer that you pointed out. One was his prayer against the person who had betrayed him.

against the person who had betrayed him. against the person who had betrayed him. >> It's so it's so wild. [laughter] It's so >> It's so it's so wild. [laughter] It's so >> It's so it's so wild. [laughter] It's so wild. I love that it's in there because wild. I love that it's in there because wild. I love that it's in there because it's like whoa, like you're talking to it's like whoa, like you're talking to it's like whoa, like you're talking to God, then all of a sudden just randomly God, then all of a sudden just randomly God, then all of a sudden just randomly starts talking to the person. starts talking to the person. starts talking to the person. >> I think I just kind of love that it was >> I think I just kind of love that it was >> I think I just kind of love that it was included. It's so human. included. It's so human. included. It's so human. >> Oh my gosh. I I was thinking about my >> Oh my gosh. I I was thinking about my >> Oh my gosh. I I was thinking about my own prayer time this morning like own prayer time this morning like own prayer time this morning like feeling a little bit of sense of relief feeling a little bit of sense of relief feeling a little bit of sense of relief like okay if you include it in here you like okay if you include it in here you like okay if you include it in here you surely can't reject it entirely. surely can't reject it entirely. surely can't reject it entirely. >> Yeah. And here's how he does it. Like he >> Yeah. And here's how he does it. Like he >> Yeah. And here's how he does it. Like he starts you know at the beginning verse starts you know at the beginning verse starts you know at the beginning verse one God. Then in verse n Lord. So he's one God. Then in verse n Lord. So he's one God. Then in verse n Lord. So he's definitely speaking to God to the Lord. definitely speaking to God to the Lord. definitely speaking to God to the Lord. >> And then you know he kind of drifts a >> And then you know he kind of drifts a >> And then you know he kind of drifts a little bit. It's an enemy who insults little bit. It's an enemy who insults little bit. It's an enemy who insults me. So he's still not talking to the me. So he's still not talking to the me. So he's still not talking to the person. He's talking about the person in person. He's talking about the person in person. He's talking about the person in third person. third person. third person. >> But then by the time he gets to verse 13 >> But then by the time he gets to verse 13 >> But then by the time he gets to verse 13 it's you a man who who is my peer. So, it's you a man who who is my peer. So, it's you a man who who is my peer. So, he stops talking to God and just does a he stops talking to God and just does a he stops talking to God and just does a tangent in his prayer talking to the tangent in his prayer talking to the tangent in his prayer talking to the person. You know, person. You know, person. You know, >> I can just see it me like trying to talk >> I can just see it me like trying to talk >> I can just see it me like trying to talk to God about this bitterness about about to God about this bitterness about about to God about this bitterness about about the forgiveness that I need for this the forgiveness that I need for this the forgiveness that I need for this person and then I'm just getting myself person and then I'm just getting myself person and then I'm just getting myself worked up about the person like it. But worked up about the person like it. But worked up about the person like it. But what I mean, what does it reveal to us what I mean, what does it reveal to us what I mean, what does it reveal to us about God including that in and leaving about God including that in and leaving about God including that in and leaving that in the passage? The the beauty of that in the passage? The the beauty of that in the passage? The the beauty of the scripture is that we are not looking the scripture is that we are not looking the scripture is that we are not looking for for for heroes to emulate. David is not a heroes to emulate. David is not a heroes to emulate. David is not a perfect hero to emulate. That we are perfect hero to emulate. That we are perfect hero to emulate. That we are ultimately going to be taken to our ultimately going to be taken to our ultimately going to be taken to our perfect savior who rescues us. This is perfect savior who rescues us. This is perfect savior who rescues us. This is just one example of that. A very flawed just one example of that. A very flawed just one example of that. A very flawed man offering really honest prayers to man offering really honest prayers to man offering really honest prayers to God. That that being in there helps us

God. That that being in there helps us God. That that being in there helps us not look for a person to be our savior, not look for a person to be our savior, not look for a person to be our savior, but to ultimately look to Christ to be but to ultimately look to Christ to be but to ultimately look to Christ to be our savior. And this prayer being in our savior. And this prayer being in our savior. And this prayer being in there helps us see that God is welcoming there helps us see that God is welcoming there helps us see that God is welcoming us in all of our complexity, in all of us in all of our complexity, in all of us in all of our complexity, in all of our imperfections to come to him. Even our imperfections to come to him. Even our imperfections to come to him. Even if in the middle of our prayer, we start if in the middle of our prayer, we start if in the middle of our prayer, we start talking to somebody else. Yeah. talking to somebody else. Yeah. talking to somebody else. Yeah. >> Do you know what I'm saying? >> Do you know what I'm saying? >> Do you know what I'm saying? >> Amazing. >> Amazing. >> Amazing. >> That even if we do a tangent in the >> That even if we do a tangent in the >> That even if we do a tangent in the prayer, he welcomes us. prayer, he welcomes us. prayer, he welcomes us. Um I I loved uh this comparison of David Um I I loved uh this comparison of David Um I I loved uh this comparison of David and Jesus when about him ascending the and Jesus when about him ascending the and Jesus when about him ascending the >> crazy the same location. >> crazy the same location. >> crazy the same location. >> Amazing. >> Amazing. >> Amazing. >> This is a very big world that we live >> This is a very big world that we live >> This is a very big world that we live in. I know in many ways small world in. I know in many ways small world in. I know in many ways small world because it's so connected but in terms because it's so connected but in terms because it's so connected but in terms of the amount of real estate in the of the amount of real estate in the of the amount of real estate in the world. Lots of real estate world. Lots of real estate world. Lots of real estate >> and yet this really small area in the >> and yet this really small area in the >> and yet this really small area in the world both David and Jesus world both David and Jesus world both David and Jesus >> weep in that same place climb the Mount >> weep in that same place climb the Mount >> weep in that same place climb the Mount of Olives in that same place are of Olives in that same place are of Olives in that same place are betrayed in that same place. betrayed in that same place. betrayed in that same place. >> Right? I mean, it's it's it's >> Right? I mean, it's it's it's >> Right? I mean, it's it's it's a stunning account. a stunning account. a stunning account. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The scripture is, you know, >> The scripture is, you know, >> The scripture is, you know, >> there's just no way that's a >> there's just no way that's a >> there's just no way that's a coincidence, coincidence, coincidence, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> It is God designing a story that we >> It is God designing a story that we >> It is God designing a story that we need. need. need. >> So, um, you know, David is he's >> So, um, you know, David is he's >> So, um, you know, David is he's mourning, right? Like in his ascent. mourning, right? Like in his ascent. mourning, right? Like in his ascent. Would you say that's fair? Like he he's Would you say that's fair? Like he he's Would you say that's fair? Like he he's just like so hurt. just like so hurt. just like so hurt. >> All of that, right? Mourning. Like >> All of that, right? Mourning. Like >> All of that, right? Mourning. Like what's happened in my life? Hurt. This what's happened in my life? Hurt. This what's happened in my life? Hurt. This is his own son barefoot. is his own son barefoot. is his own son barefoot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Had to leave my palace super fast. >> Had to leave my palace super fast. >> Had to leave my palace super fast. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, what has happened to my life? >> I mean, what has happened to my life? >> I mean, what has happened to my life? >> Right. And and he so he's going like >> Right. And and he so he's going like >> Right. And and he so he's going like asking for God to help him like in into asking for God to help him like in into asking for God to help him like in into for the forgiveness for the forgiveness for the forgiveness >> and then Jesus is the one who he is all >> and then Jesus is the one who he is all >> and then Jesus is the one who he is all of the forgiveness like he he's the of the forgiveness like he he's the of the forgiveness like he he's the completion of that for us. completion of that for us. completion of that for us. And and you know Jesus is is in the the And and you know Jesus is is in the the And and you know Jesus is is in the the line of David. line of David. line of David. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So the the the throne is promised to >> So the the the throne is promised to >> So the the the throne is promised to David that your kingdom will never end. David that your kingdom will never end. David that your kingdom will never end. Then David dies. So clearly that is not Then David dies. So clearly that is not Then David dies. So clearly that is not going to be fulfilled in David. It's going to be fulfilled in David. It's going to be fulfilled in David. It's ultimately fulfilled in Christ. So ultimately fulfilled in Christ. So ultimately fulfilled in Christ. So >> the gospels introduce Jesus as son of >> the gospels introduce Jesus as son of >> the gospels introduce Jesus as son of Abraham, son of David. So he's the Abraham, son of David. So he's the Abraham, son of David. So he's the fulfillment of the promise to both.

fulfillment of the promise to both. fulfillment of the promise to both. There's a promise in the Old Testament, There's a promise in the Old Testament, There's a promise in the Old Testament, Abraham, that Abraham, that Abraham, that >> someone's coming from you who will make >> someone's coming from you who will make >> someone's coming from you who will make people from every tribe, tongue, and people from every tribe, tongue, and people from every tribe, tongue, and nation blessed. That's Christ. And the nation blessed. That's Christ. And the nation blessed. That's Christ. And the David, your kingdom is gonna last David, your kingdom is gonna last David, your kingdom is gonna last forever. That's not David. That's forever. That's not David. That's forever. That's not David. That's Christ. Christ. Christ. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so then Jesus is walking that same >> And so then Jesus is walking that same >> And so then Jesus is walking that same place. place. place. >> But unlike David, he's not being chased >> But unlike David, he's not being chased >> But unlike David, he's not being chased for any sins he's done at all. for any sins he's done at all. for any sins he's done at all. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh there's no imperfections in Jesus. So >> Uh there's no imperfections in Jesus. So >> Uh there's no imperfections in Jesus. So his tears are truly the tears of an his tears are truly the tears of an his tears are truly the tears of an innocent one who's been betrayed. Right. innocent one who's been betrayed. Right. innocent one who's been betrayed. Right. you know, he's the true king you know, he's the true king you know, he's the true king >> who who who >> who who who >> who who who >> who who feels the ultimate weight of >> who who feels the ultimate weight of >> who who feels the ultimate weight of betrayal because there's betrayal because there's betrayal because there's >> there's no >> there's no >> there's no iota of wrong in Jesus. Yeah. iota of wrong in Jesus. Yeah. iota of wrong in Jesus. Yeah. >> So there's there this is complete >> So there's there this is complete >> So there's there this is complete betrayal, betrayal, betrayal, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> against the one who's done nothing >> against the one who's done nothing >> against the one who's done nothing wrong. wrong. wrong. >> Yeah. Yeah. you know, and and he he u is >> Yeah. Yeah. you know, and and he he u is >> Yeah. Yeah. you know, and and he he u is in that garden in that garden in that garden >> praying >> praying >> praying for his disciples, praying for us for his disciples, praying for us for his disciples, praying for us ultimately. Then he goes to the cross ultimately. Then he goes to the cross ultimately. Then he goes to the cross and and and >> Yeah. the ones who betrayed him.

>> Yeah. the ones who betrayed him. >> Yeah. the ones who betrayed him. >> Yes. Ask for forgiveness. Yeah. He goes >> Yes. Ask for forgiveness. Yeah. He goes >> Yes. Ask for forgiveness. Yeah. He goes to the cross for us, right? to the cross for us, right? to the cross for us, right? >> Gosh. Yeah. And what I what I love about >> Gosh. Yeah. And what I what I love about >> Gosh. Yeah. And what I what I love about that is that is that is like that Jesus was betrayed in like the like that Jesus was betrayed in like the like that Jesus was betrayed in like the worst way possible because of what worst way possible because of what worst way possible because of what you're saying like he was completely you're saying like he was completely you're saying like he was completely innocent innocent innocent >> and then like the impact of that >> and then like the impact of that >> and then like the impact of that betrayal betrayal betrayal infinitely greater than any that we infinitely greater than any that we infinitely greater than any that we would experience. would experience. would experience. >> But then like his posture towards people >> But then like his posture towards people >> But then like his posture towards people after that, after that, after that, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> doesn't change at all. And I think >> doesn't change at all. And I think >> doesn't change at all. And I think that's one of the things that's so that's one of the things that's so that's one of the things that's so stunning to me about stunning to me about stunning to me about >> like when we're forgiven by Christ >> like when we're forgiven by Christ >> like when we're forgiven by Christ >> knowing that we've betrayed him >> knowing that we've betrayed him >> knowing that we've betrayed him >> and just that he like, >> and just that he like, >> and just that he like, >> you know, he he dies and then he says, >> you know, he he dies and then he says, >> you know, he he dies and then he says, you know, forgive them and then he you know, forgive them and then he you know, forgive them and then he raises from the dead and then he's just raises from the dead and then he's just raises from the dead and then he's just like, "Greetings, peace to you." And like, "Greetings, peace to you." And like, "Greetings, peace to you." And there's like this warmth towards people there's like this warmth towards people there's like this warmth towards people that that that >> I think is so easy >> I think is so easy >> I think is so easy >> to >> to >> to >> become cold and like the fly away thing >> become cold and like the fly away thing >> become cold and like the fly away thing when we've been when we've been when we've been >> betrayed in this pain. >> betrayed in this pain. >> betrayed in this pain. >> That's great. That's great insight. >> That's great. That's great insight. >> That's great. That's great insight. >> What he models here is so >> What he models here is so >> What he models here is so >> wow >> wow >> wow >> it's like man if he can do that >> it's like man if he can do that >> it's like man if he can do that >> right well that's great insight maybe I >> right well that's great insight maybe I >> right well that's great insight maybe I can too because you are right when you can too because you are right when you can too because you are right when you when you're in the middle of relational when you're in the middle of relational when you're in the middle of relational pain or betrayal pain or betrayal pain or betrayal >> even the even though the the next person >> even the even though the the next person >> even the even though the the next person that you encounter isn't the person that you encounter isn't the person that you encounter isn't the person who's hurt you who's hurt you who's hurt you have a tendency I do have a tendency to have a tendency I do have a tendency to have a tendency I do have a tendency to >> harden myself to not want to to be >> harden myself to not want to to be >> harden myself to not want to to be vulnerable again or to not vulnerable again or to not vulnerable again or to not >> right >> right >> right >> to not want the possibility of this kind >> to not want the possibility of this kind >> to not want the possibility of this kind of pain again course you know and Here's of pain again course you know and Here's of pain again course you know and Here's Jesus betrayed in the in that same place Jesus betrayed in the in that same place Jesus betrayed in the in that same place with a kiss by Judas

with a kiss by Judas with a kiss by Judas >> and yet and then sees his disciples say >> and yet and then sees his disciples say >> and yet and then sees his disciples say they never knew him they never knew him they never knew him >> yet on the cross is saying, "Father, >> yet on the cross is saying, "Father, >> yet on the cross is saying, "Father, forgive them." forgive them." forgive them." >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> that's really insightful. It's a hopeful >> that's really insightful. It's a hopeful >> that's really insightful. It's a hopeful picture that you can be hurt and still picture that you can be hurt and still picture that you can be hurt and still have relational health in the future. have relational health in the future. have relational health in the future. Like you you can still have healthy Like you you can still have healthy Like you you can still have healthy relationships that are safe for you. relationships that are safe for you. relationships that are safe for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, man, it's beautiful hearing just Um, man, it's beautiful hearing just Um, man, it's beautiful hearing just about, you know, bringing Jesus into the about, you know, bringing Jesus into the about, you know, bringing Jesus into the scene at the end of your message and it scene at the end of your message and it scene at the end of your message and it made me think about how this idea of made me think about how this idea of made me think about how this idea of forgiveness, it is not juicients aren't forgiveness, it is not juicients aren't forgiveness, it is not juicients aren't the only ones that talk about this, the only ones that talk about this, the only ones that talk about this, right? right? right? >> This is something that everybody likes >> This is something that everybody likes >> This is something that everybody likes to talk about how forgiveness is good. to talk about how forgiveness is good. to talk about how forgiveness is good. Yeah. you know, and there's tons of Yeah. you know, and there's tons of Yeah. you know, and there's tons of different ideologies or philosophies on different ideologies or philosophies on different ideologies or philosophies on when, why, and how you you do forgive, when, why, and how you you do forgive, when, why, and how you you do forgive, but um why why is it different for for but um why why is it different for for but um why why is it different for for the Christian? the Christian? the Christian? >> It you're right. There's so many >> It you're right. There's so many >> It you're right. There's so many questions about forgiveness. It is a questions about forgiveness. It is a questions about forgiveness. It is a universal question and then the universal question and then the universal question and then the Christian faith has a different answer, Christian faith has a different answer, Christian faith has a different answer, a very unique answer. Uh Simon a very unique answer. Uh Simon a very unique answer. Uh Simon Weisenthal was Weisenthal was Weisenthal was um an author and he had survived the um an author and he had survived the um an author and he had survived the Holocaust. He wrote a very popular book Holocaust. He wrote a very popular book Holocaust. He wrote a very popular book about forgiveness called the sunflower.

about forgiveness called the sunflower. about forgiveness called the sunflower. It's where it's it a lot of uh phil It's where it's it a lot of uh phil It's where it's it a lot of uh phil philosophy classes and ethics classes philosophy classes and ethics classes philosophy classes and ethics classes will use the book in a university. It's will use the book in a university. It's will use the book in a university. It's a fascinating read. The first half is a fascinating read. The first half is a fascinating read. The first half is him telling a story and the second half him telling a story and the second half him telling a story and the second half is he's asking religious leaders from is he's asking religious leaders from is he's asking religious leaders from different religions to to respond if he different religions to to respond if he different religions to to respond if he did the right thing. Uh what happened did the right thing. Uh what happened did the right thing. Uh what happened was he was a child and he was at a was he was a child and he was at a was he was a child and he was at a concentration camp and he was Jewish at concentration camp and he was Jewish at concentration camp and he was Jewish at a concentration camp and one day um a a concentration camp and one day um a a concentration camp and one day um a soldier a Nazi soldier uh grabbed him soldier a Nazi soldier uh grabbed him soldier a Nazi soldier uh grabbed him and said come with me brought him up to and said come with me brought him up to and said come with me brought him up to a it was like a old school and there was a it was like a old school and there was a it was like a old school and there was a a man I think his name was Carl who a a man I think his name was Carl who a a man I think his name was Carl who was on his deathbed a Nazi soldier on was on his deathbed a Nazi soldier on was on his deathbed a Nazi soldier on his deathbed and the Nazi soldier asked his deathbed and the Nazi soldier asked his deathbed and the Nazi soldier asked for forgiveness says I just need to ask for forgiveness says I just need to ask for forgiveness says I just need to ask forgiveness from a Jew And uh the Nazi forgiveness from a Jew And uh the Nazi forgiveness from a Jew And uh the Nazi soldier says that soldier says that soldier says that several years before he had been a part several years before he had been a part several years before he had been a part of a group that gathered a bunch of um of a group that gathered a bunch of um of a group that gathered a bunch of um school children and put them in a house school children and put them in a house school children and put them in a house and burned the house and anyone who and burned the house and anyone who and burned the house and anyone who tried to escape he would shoot.

tried to escape he would shoot. tried to escape he would shoot. >> Gosh. >> Gosh. >> Gosh. >> And every like every night he goes to >> And every like every night he goes to >> And every like every night he goes to bed, he can't stop thinking about the bed, he can't stop thinking about the bed, he can't stop thinking about the people who are looking out at the window people who are looking out at the window people who are looking out at the window and he sees their eyes and he can't and he sees their eyes and he can't and he sees their eyes and he can't sleep. He's about to die and he just sleep. He's about to die and he just sleep. He's about to die and he just want he he needs forgiveness. He needs want he he needs forgiveness. He needs want he he needs forgiveness. He needs forgiveness and he I need forgiveness forgiveness and he I need forgiveness forgiveness and he I need forgiveness from a Jew. And so he asks Simon to from a Jew. And so he asks Simon to from a Jew. And so he asks Simon to forgive him and Simon forgive him and Simon forgive him and Simon walks out. walks out. walks out. It doesn't for doesn't doesn't express It doesn't for doesn't doesn't express It doesn't for doesn't doesn't express forgiveness forgiveness forgiveness >> and then asks, "Did I do the right >> and then asks, "Did I do the right >> and then asks, "Did I do the right thing?" thing?" thing?" >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And so then there's all kinds of answers >> And so then there's all kinds of answers >> And so then there's all kinds of answers from different people. So you're right. from different people. So you're right. from different people. So you're right. This is This is This is >> so clearly this person, this is someone >> so clearly this person, this is someone >> so clearly this person, this is someone longing for forgiveness. longing for forgiveness. longing for forgiveness. >> Yeah. And then here's Si Simon >> Yeah. And then here's Si Simon >> Yeah. And then here's Si Simon Weisenthal wrestling with do I give Weisenthal wrestling with do I give Weisenthal wrestling with do I give forgiveness? forgiveness? forgiveness? >> So one of the answers in the book, one >> So one of the answers in the book, one >> So one of the answers in the book, one of the people who responded saying the of the people who responded saying the of the people who responded saying the fact that you are still recounting the fact that you are still recounting the fact that you are still recounting the story shows that you not forgiving has story shows that you not forgiving has story shows that you not forgiving has hurt you that you are still wrestling hurt you that you are still wrestling hurt you that you are still wrestling with this with this with this >> this ethical dilemma.

>> this ethical dilemma. >> this ethical dilemma. >> Others said you couldn't have as he was >> Others said you couldn't have as he was >> Others said you couldn't have as he was asking you to forgive on behalf of a asking you to forgive on behalf of a asking you to forgive on behalf of a whole a whole population. and it wasn't whole a whole population. and it wasn't whole a whole population. and it wasn't he wasn't asking for your forgiveness he wasn't asking for your forgiveness he wasn't asking for your forgiveness for something he did to you. So, there's for something he did to you. So, there's for something he did to you. So, there's all kinds of right all kinds of right all kinds of right >> all kinds of debates on it. But all that >> all kinds of debates on it. But all that >> all kinds of debates on it. But all that said, that's a story that shows that said, that's a story that shows that said, that's a story that shows that forgiveness is something that people forgiveness is something that people forgiveness is something that people from all different walks of life wrestle from all different walks of life wrestle from all different walks of life wrestle with. with. with. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And the Christian account is so >> And the Christian account is so >> And the Christian account is so otherworldly otherworldly otherworldly because the Christian account says we because the Christian account says we because the Christian account says we can forgive because we've been forgiven. can forgive because we've been forgiven. can forgive because we've been forgiven. >> Yeah. and the the depth of our sins >> Yeah. and the the depth of our sins >> Yeah. and the the depth of our sins forgiven by Jesus then changes changes forgiven by Jesus then changes changes forgiven by Jesus then changes changes how we live. Now, for someone who's not how we live. Now, for someone who's not how we live. Now, for someone who's not a Christian, um gosh, it's it's such an a Christian, um gosh, it's it's such an a Christian, um gosh, it's it's such an ethical conversation. I appreciate the ethical conversation. I appreciate the ethical conversation. I appreciate the ethical conversation, but for those of ethical conversation, but for those of ethical conversation, but for those of us who are Christians, we we know we us who are Christians, we we know we us who are Christians, we we know we must forgive because we've been must forgive because we've been must forgive because we've been >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> forgiven. Now, that doesn't mean I made >> forgiven. Now, that doesn't mean I made >> forgiven. Now, that doesn't mean I made a distinction between reconciliation and a distinction between reconciliation and a distinction between reconciliation and forgiveness. Did you have you any I forgiveness. Did you have you any I forgiveness. Did you have you any I don't even know if we're allowed to say don't even know if we're allowed to say don't even know if we're allowed to say this, but I guess I started. So, uh, this, but I guess I started. So, uh, this, but I guess I started. So, uh, [laughter] The Odyssey. Have you seen [laughter] The Odyssey. Have you seen [laughter] The Odyssey. Have you seen The Odyssey yet?

The Odyssey yet? The Odyssey yet? >> No. Uhuh. >> No. Uhuh. >> No. Uhuh. >> I haven't. >> I haven't. >> I haven't. >> You haven't seen it? >> You haven't seen it? >> You haven't seen it? >> No. You haven't seen? >> No. You haven't seen? >> No. You haven't seen? >> I'm not surprised. Did he see it opening >> I'm not surprised. Did he see it opening >> I'm not surprised. Did he see it opening night? night? night? >> No. He has a hilarious story. He didn't >> No. He has a hilarious story. He didn't >> No. He has a hilarious story. He didn't know he was going to one of those 40X or know he was going to one of those 40X or know he was going to one of those 40X or whatever. You know what I'm talking whatever. You know what I'm talking whatever. You know what I'm talking about? Have you heard of these? about? Have you heard of these? about? Have you heard of these? >> I've heard this is where you put Is it >> I've heard this is where you put Is it >> I've heard this is where you put Is it like like like >> It's like a roller coaster. Really? He >> It's like a roller coaster. Really? He >> It's like a roller coaster. Really? He didn't know he was going to one, so he didn't know he was going to one, so he didn't know he was going to one, so he came back like came back like came back like >> he couldn't go to bed that night, >> he couldn't go to bed that night, >> he couldn't go to bed that night, [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> right? It's like there's like waters at >> right? It's like there's like waters at >> right? It's like there's like waters at you the whole you the whole you the whole >> Oh, really? Yes. >> Oh, really? Yes. >> Oh, really? Yes. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> Sorry. >> Sorry. >> Sorry. >> So, I I I read I've read it and then I >> So, I I I read I've read it and then I >> So, I I I read I've read it and then I and then I I saw it and one of uh the and then I I saw it and one of uh the and then I I saw it and one of uh the characters in there, I'm going to mess characters in there, I'm going to mess characters in there, I'm going to mess up the name, up the name, up the name, >> uh sacrifices >> uh sacrifices >> uh sacrifices his daughter to the gods to get them to his daughter to the gods to get them to his daughter to the gods to get them to lower um the waves so that they could lower um the waves so that they could lower um the waves so that they could have safe passage. have safe passage. have safe passage. >> Wow. So the but the view of and so here >> Wow. So the but the view of and so here >> Wow. So the but the view of and so here here's the reality that that that's in here's the reality that that that's in here's the reality that that that's in the odyssey. Uh John Sto wrote a book the odyssey. Uh John Sto wrote a book the odyssey. Uh John Sto wrote a book called the cross of Christ which is such called the cross of Christ which is such called the cross of Christ which is such that's one of my favorite books. that's one of my favorite books. that's one of my favorite books. >> Scott uses the odyssey as an example be >> Scott uses the odyssey as an example be >> Scott uses the odyssey as an example be showing that all cultures have thought showing that all cultures have thought showing that all cultures have thought we've violated some standard that we we've violated some standard that we we've violated some standard that we need forgiveness from.

need forgiveness from. need forgiveness from. >> So even in this Greek mythology we've >> So even in this Greek mythology we've >> So even in this Greek mythology we've done something to anger the gods. done something to anger the gods. done something to anger the gods. >> Ah so we have to appease them. >> Ah so we have to appease them. >> Ah so we have to appease them. >> We have to appease them. Got it? >> We have to appease them. Got it? >> We have to appease them. Got it? >> So you see this in the Odyssey. So uh >> So you see this in the Odyssey. So uh >> So you see this in the Odyssey. So uh this this uh person this this uh person this this uh person Kadamese or something sacrifices his Kadamese or something sacrifices his Kadamese or something sacrifices his daughter um to to appease the gods uh to daughter um to to appease the gods uh to daughter um to to appease the gods uh to propitiate. So propitiate means to turn propitiate. So propitiate means to turn propitiate. So propitiate means to turn the wrath. So the wrath is against the the wrath. So the wrath is against the the wrath. So the wrath is against the soldiers for what they've done. A soldiers for what they've done. A soldiers for what they've done. A sacrifice is made so that the wrath is sacrifice is made so that the wrath is sacrifice is made so that the wrath is turned from the soldiers to the turned from the soldiers to the turned from the soldiers to the sacrifice. Sadly it's the he sacrifices sacrifice. Sadly it's the he sacrifices sacrifice. Sadly it's the he sacrifices his own daughter. So the Christian story his own daughter. So the Christian story his own daughter. So the Christian story though is completely different. though is completely different. though is completely different. >> Yeah. that God sacrifices himself. >> Yeah. that God sacrifices himself. >> Yeah. that God sacrifices himself. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> That God doesn't demand a sacrifice. >> That God doesn't demand a sacrifice. >> That God doesn't demand a sacrifice. That we have fallen short. We have We That we have fallen short. We have We That we have fallen short. We have We don't believe there's little G gods, but don't believe there's little G gods, but don't believe there's little G gods, but there's one true God. All of us have there's one true God. All of us have there's one true God. All of us have fallen short. But he's not asking us to fallen short. But he's not asking us to fallen short. But he's not asking us to sacrifice ourselves or someone we love. sacrifice ourselves or someone we love. sacrifice ourselves or someone we love. He propitiates. He turns the wrath He propitiates. He turns the wrath He propitiates. He turns the wrath himself. He absorbs in his own flesh on himself. He absorbs in his own flesh on himself. He absorbs in his own flesh on the cross. He absorbs the wrath.

the cross. He absorbs the wrath. the cross. He absorbs the wrath. >> So that's why our hearts are then >> So that's why our hearts are then >> So that's why our hearts are then completely overwhelmed. Yep. and we can completely overwhelmed. Yep. and we can completely overwhelmed. Yep. and we can forgive and if we don't we die inside. forgive and if we don't we die inside. forgive and if we don't we die inside. >> Yeah. So that's what makes forgiveness a >> Yeah. So that's what makes forgiveness a >> Yeah. So that's what makes forgiveness a very Christian very Christian very Christian perspective because it's it's um perspective because it's it's um perspective because it's it's um offering someone what's already been offering someone what's already been offering someone what's already been you've already received you've already received you've already received >> right >> right >> right >> you've received forgiveness therefore >> you've received forgiveness therefore >> you've received forgiveness therefore you offer forgiveness you offer forgiveness you offer forgiveness >> right did you plan it this way that this >> right did you plan it this way that this >> right did you plan it this way that this week would come after an I believe week would come after an I believe week would come after an I believe weekend weekend weekend >> um >> um >> um >> you should say yes >> you should say yes >> you should say yes >> yes [laughter] yes I did yes I did >> yes [laughter] yes I did yes I did >> yes [laughter] yes I did yes I did >> I w I was sitting listening to the >> I w I was sitting listening to the >> I w I was sitting listening to the online message going. I'm I'm so excited online message going. I'm I'm so excited online message going. I'm I'm so excited for those that said I believed last for those that said I believed last for those that said I believed last weekend who experienced the forgiveness weekend who experienced the forgiveness weekend who experienced the forgiveness of God. Yes. For them to hear this of God. Yes. For them to hear this of God. Yes. For them to hear this message. message. message. >> They're now enabled to forgive others. >> They're now enabled to forgive others. >> They're now enabled to forgive others. >> They might actually be able to reach >> They might actually be able to reach >> They might actually be able to reach within that and now be able to extend within that and now be able to extend within that and now be able to extend it. It's it's really I mean the right it. It's it's really I mean the right it. It's it's really I mean the right ordering, you know, of coming that ordering, you know, of coming that ordering, you know, of coming that coming first and understanding just how coming first and understanding just how coming first and understanding just how much I'm forgiven. It does make it all much I'm forgiven. It does make it all much I'm forgiven. It does make it all the all the more accessible for me to the all the more accessible for me to the all the more accessible for me to then forgive someone else.

then forgive someone else. then forgive someone else. >> Totally. Um, I'd love for uh us to just >> Totally. Um, I'd love for uh us to just >> Totally. Um, I'd love for uh us to just talk a little bit about this idea that talk a little bit about this idea that talk a little bit about this idea that you touched on on um casting your you touched on on um casting your you touched on on um casting your burdens on Jesus burdens on Jesus burdens on Jesus >> or on God. It was it wasn't just that we >> or on God. It was it wasn't just that we >> or on God. It was it wasn't just that we just forgive and forget, right? just forgive and forget, right? just forgive and forget, right? >> But that we actually are placing them on >> But that we actually are placing them on >> But that we actually are placing them on someone or something. Why is that someone or something. Why is that someone or something. Why is that significant? significant? significant? >> I'm really thankful for the passage >> I'm really thankful for the passage >> I'm really thankful for the passage because it's not casting into because it's not casting into because it's not casting into nothingness. nothingness. nothingness. >> Yeah. but casting my burdens to the one >> Yeah. but casting my burdens to the one >> Yeah. but casting my burdens to the one who loves me. Peter, one of Jesus's who loves me. Peter, one of Jesus's who loves me. Peter, one of Jesus's disciples, actually takes this verse and disciples, actually takes this verse and disciples, actually takes this verse and and quotes it in the New Testament. So, and quotes it in the New Testament. So, and quotes it in the New Testament. So, first Peter 5 verse 6 is cast your cares first Peter 5 verse 6 is cast your cares first Peter 5 verse 6 is cast your cares on him because he cares for you. Yeah, on him because he cares for you. Yeah, on him because he cares for you. Yeah, >> that's Peter quoting from this psalm. >> that's Peter quoting from this psalm. >> that's Peter quoting from this psalm. >> So, this psalm makes its way into the >> So, this psalm makes its way into the >> So, this psalm makes its way into the New Testament, which is beautiful and New Testament, which is beautiful and New Testament, which is beautiful and shows we have a God who wants shows we have a God who wants shows we have a God who wants wants our burdens, wants our cares. We wants our burdens, wants our cares. We wants our burdens, wants our cares. We don't. It's such It's such more don't. It's such It's such more don't. It's such It's such more realistic and yet more profound than realistic and yet more profound than realistic and yet more profound than just forget it, you know, move on. Uh just forget it, you know, move on. Uh just forget it, you know, move on. Uh let it go. I Oh my gosh. Where's it go?

let it go. I Oh my gosh. Where's it go? let it go. I Oh my gosh. Where's it go? I get to bring it to him. I get to cast I get to bring it to him. I get to cast I get to bring it to him. I get to cast my cares on him. my cares on him. my cares on him. >> Yeah. Yeah. Completely absorbed. >> Yeah. Yeah. Completely absorbed. >> Yeah. Yeah. Completely absorbed. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And satisfied. >> Yeah. And satisfied. >> Yeah. And satisfied. >> Yeah. And I think about, you know, like >> Yeah. And I think about, you know, like >> Yeah. And I think about, you know, like where you took us, where the psalm ends where you took us, where the psalm ends where you took us, where the psalm ends of like that last line of trust, but I of like that last line of trust, but I of like that last line of trust, but I trust in you, you know, because trust in you, you know, because trust in you, you know, because >> I think that's one of the really hard >> I think that's one of the really hard >> I think that's one of the really hard things about betrayal or any kind of things about betrayal or any kind of things about betrayal or any kind of relational pain is it kind of creates relational pain is it kind of creates relational pain is it kind of creates this very like visceral feeling of like, this very like visceral feeling of like, this very like visceral feeling of like, well, who can I trust? Can I trust well, who can I trust? Can I trust well, who can I trust? Can I trust anybody? And and I think the biblically anybody? And and I think the biblically anybody? And and I think the biblically resonant answer is not to sound like resonant answer is not to sound like resonant answer is not to sound like cynical, like you really can't trust cynical, like you really can't trust cynical, like you really can't trust anyone anyone anyone >> other than your God. >> other than your God. >> other than your God. >> Yeah. And so, >> Yeah. And so, >> Yeah. And so, >> and that's where like he goes with it, >> and that's where like he goes with it, >> and that's where like he goes with it, you know, and it's like no, we should you know, and it's like no, we should you know, and it's like no, we should still like have great relationships and still like have great relationships and still like have great relationships and all and and and put our I mean, like C. all and and and put our I mean, like C. all and and and put our I mean, like C. Lewis has that whole thing of like you Lewis has that whole thing of like you Lewis has that whole thing of like you can it's like, you know, choose your can it's like, you know, choose your can it's like, you know, choose your heart, you know, it's like you can heart, you know, it's like you can heart, you know, it's like you can choose to put your heart in a coffin and choose to put your heart in a coffin and choose to put your heart in a coffin and not give it to anybody and then it just not give it to anybody and then it just not give it to anybody and then it just suffocates. Or you can, you know, keep suffocates. Or you can, you know, keep suffocates. Or you can, you know, keep giving it to people even when you've giving it to people even when you've giving it to people even when you've been hurt. Maybe not people that aren't been hurt. Maybe not people that aren't been hurt. Maybe not people that aren't safe, but people that you can trust or safe, but people that you can trust or safe, but people that you can trust or have reason to trust. Yeah.

have reason to trust. Yeah. have reason to trust. Yeah. >> Um so that you can, you know, have real >> Um so that you can, you know, have real >> Um so that you can, you know, have real relationships. But I think that like relationships. But I think that like relationships. But I think that like turn at the end, the casting the burdens turn at the end, the casting the burdens turn at the end, the casting the burdens on the Lord, trusting in him, it's like on the Lord, trusting in him, it's like on the Lord, trusting in him, it's like betrayal is an opportunity to like betrayal is an opportunity to like betrayal is an opportunity to like relearn that really Jesus is the only relearn that really Jesus is the only relearn that really Jesus is the only one that we can fully trust and that he one that we can fully trust and that he one that we can fully trust and that he will never let us down. will never let us down. will never let us down. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's a verse in the Gospels um >> Yeah. There's a verse in the Gospels um >> Yeah. There's a verse in the Gospels um that I've wrestled with. It says Jesus that I've wrestled with. It says Jesus that I've wrestled with. It says Jesus would not entrust himself to any man would not entrust himself to any man would not entrust himself to any man because he knew what was in a man. because he knew what was in a man. because he knew what was in a man. >> I'm like, "Oh, shoot." >> I'm like, "Oh, shoot." >> I'm like, "Oh, shoot." >> Wait, can you repeat that? Um, I don't >> Wait, can you repeat that? Um, I don't >> Wait, can you repeat that? Um, I don't even know the sighting, but you can even know the sighting, but you can even know the sighting, but you can Google it or Google it or Google it or >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Claude it or chat it, whatever >> Claude it or chat it, whatever >> Claude it or chat it, whatever [laughter] people were doing these [laughter] people were doing these [laughter] people were doing these things. He would not entrust himself to things. He would not entrust himself to things. He would not entrust himself to any man because he knew what was in a any man because he knew what was in a any man because he knew what was in a man. man. man. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> So that even though he deeply loved >> So that even though he deeply loved >> So that even though he deeply loved people, he he did he did have a sense of people, he he did he did have a sense of people, he he did he did have a sense of I I I >> I can't fully trust a fallen humanity. >> I can't fully trust a fallen humanity. >> I can't fully trust a fallen humanity. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> You know, >> You know, >> You know, >> that's fair. >> that's fair. >> that's fair. >> It's It's I mean, Kevin took us there. >> It's It's I mean, Kevin took us there. >> It's It's I mean, Kevin took us there. He got real dark on the [laughter] He got real dark on the [laughter] He got real dark on the [laughter] >> Kevin took us there, but hopefully bring >> Kevin took us there, but hopefully bring >> Kevin took us there, but hopefully bring it up, you know. Jesus is the one. So, it up, you know. Jesus is the one. So, it up, you know. Jesus is the one. So, and because you can trust him. Exactly.

and because you can trust him. Exactly. and because you can trust him. Exactly. Because you can trust him, you can give Because you can trust him, you can give Because you can trust him, you can give yourself yourself yourself >> to other people. >> to other people. >> to other people. >> Yes. Because also, >> Yes. Because also, >> Yes. Because also, >> he's got you and >> he's got you and >> he's got you and >> if you're trusting him, >> if you're trusting him, >> if you're trusting him, >> he's given you what you need. >> he's given you what you need. >> he's given you what you need. >> Therefore, you don't need the other >> Therefore, you don't need the other >> Therefore, you don't need the other person to give you your identity because person to give you your identity because person to give you your identity because you already have it from Jesus. you already have it from Jesus. you already have it from Jesus. >> That's good. That's good. >> That's good. That's good. >> That's good. That's good. >> So, that's the good news. >> So, that's the good news. >> So, that's the good news. >> That's the good news. >> That's the good news. >> That's the good news. >> The bad news is, man, people are messed >> The bad news is, man, people are messed >> The bad news is, man, people are messed up, including including every single one up, including including every single one up, including including every single one of us. of us. of us. >> Including us. Yes. >> Including us. Yes. >> Including us. Yes. >> And we we disappoint each other. Mhm. >> And we we disappoint each other. Mhm. >> And we we disappoint each other. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And we'll be disappointed by each other. >> And we'll be disappointed by each other. >> And we'll be disappointed by each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, >> You know, >> You know, >> I'd love for us to close with just I >> I'd love for us to close with just I >> I'd love for us to close with just I mean, I want to take the opportunity mean, I want to take the opportunity mean, I want to take the opportunity because there are a lot of people because there are a lot of people because there are a lot of people listening who are carrying the listening who are carrying the listening who are carrying the bitterness. bitterness. bitterness. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it is it can feel like shackles. >> And it is it can feel like shackles. >> And it is it can feel like shackles. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> It's heavy. >> It's heavy. >> It's heavy. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> And um what what would you guys say to >> And um what what would you guys say to >> And um what what would you guys say to them to just encourage or to bless them? them to just encourage or to bless them? them to just encourage or to bless them? >> Remember how much you've been forgiven. >> Remember how much you've been forgiven. >> Remember how much you've been forgiven. Remember how much you've been forgiven. Remember how much you've been forgiven. Remember how much you've been forgiven. That's the only way you're going to be That's the only way you're going to be That's the only way you're going to be able to extend forgiveness. able to extend forgiveness. able to extend forgiveness. Also, I tried to emphasize this in the Also, I tried to emphasize this in the Also, I tried to emphasize this in the message. Forgiveness doesn't mean message. Forgiveness doesn't mean message. Forgiveness doesn't mean reconciliation.

reconciliation. reconciliation. So if you've So if you've So if you've been been been wronged in such a way that you shouldn't wronged in such a way that you shouldn't wronged in such a way that you shouldn't be in a relationship with that person be in a relationship with that person be in a relationship with that person because you will be in harm's way or because you will be in harm's way or because you will be in harm's way or you'll continue that person is a you'll continue that person is a you'll continue that person is a continual liar or um speaks so continual liar or um speaks so continual liar or um speaks so negatively to you negatively to you negatively to you >> um constantly brings you down or pulls >> um constantly brings you down or pulls >> um constantly brings you down or pulls you into temptation. forgive, you into temptation. forgive, you into temptation. forgive, >> but do be wise on only reconciling after >> but do be wise on only reconciling after >> but do be wise on only reconciling after there's repentance. there's repentance. there's repentance. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, you don't have to live in a >> You know, you don't have to live in a >> You know, you don't have to live in a way where you are way where you are way where you are continually harmed. continually harmed. continually harmed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Don't don't no, don't do that. >> Don't don't no, don't do that. >> Don't don't no, don't do that. >> You are you shouldn't be treated that >> You are you shouldn't be treated that >> You are you shouldn't be treated that way. way. way. >> You're an image bearer of God. You >> You're an image bearer of God. You >> You're an image bearer of God. You should love people, but he loves you and should love people, but he loves you and should love people, but he loves you and I don't want you to be mistreated. I don't want you to be mistreated. I don't want you to be mistreated. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, forgive, but only reconcile when >> So, forgive, but only reconcile when >> So, forgive, but only reconcile when there's repentance. there's repentance. there's repentance. >> Yeah. I'm so grateful that you shared >> Yeah. I'm so grateful that you shared >> Yeah. I'm so grateful that you shared that because it I think that is what that because it I think that is what that because it I think that is what keeps a lot of people from the keeps a lot of people from the keeps a lot of people from the forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness, >> right? They equate the two. They equate.

>> right? They equate the two. They equate. >> right? They equate the two. They equate. If I forgive, that means I'm going to If I forgive, that means I'm going to If I forgive, that means I'm going to invite him back in or I'm going to invite him back in or I'm going to invite him back in or I'm going to whatever. whatever. whatever. >> And and no, forgive so that bitterness >> And and no, forgive so that bitterness >> And and no, forgive so that bitterness doesn't destroy you. doesn't destroy you. doesn't destroy you. >> But you do not need to live through that >> But you do not need to live through that >> But you do not need to live through that again. again. again. >> Yeah. Amen. >> Yeah. Amen. >> Yeah. Amen. >> Yeah. I think just that um you're not >> Yeah. I think just that um you're not >> Yeah. I think just that um you're not any less spiritual if you're feeling any less spiritual if you're feeling any less spiritual if you're feeling that forgiveness is not easy for you that forgiveness is not easy for you that forgiveness is not easy for you right now. Because the reality is it's right now. Because the reality is it's right now. Because the reality is it's pretty clear in the garden of Gethsemane pretty clear in the garden of Gethsemane pretty clear in the garden of Gethsemane this whole thing wasn't easy for Jesus this whole thing wasn't easy for Jesus this whole thing wasn't easy for Jesus either. You know this either. You know this either. You know this >> that's true >> that's true >> that's true >> much greater scale but like I mean even >> much greater scale but like I mean even >> much greater scale but like I mean even he tells Judas's betrayer he was like he tells Judas's betrayer he was like he tells Judas's betrayer he was like what you going to do do quickly. what you going to do do quickly. what you going to do do quickly. >> Yeah. Please get it over with. >> Yeah. Please get it over with. >> Yeah. Please get it over with. >> You know like it wasn't like he was like >> You know like it wasn't like he was like >> You know like it wasn't like he was like it's not going to it's not going to it's not going to it's not going to it's not going to it's not going to bother me. You know like that was part bother me. You know like that was part bother me. You know like that was part of what he was sweating blood over part. of what he was sweating blood over part. of what he was sweating blood over part. And and so um And and so um And and so um >> because I think it can be easy to kind >> because I think it can be easy to kind >> because I think it can be easy to kind of assume um like a sanitized version of of assume um like a sanitized version of of assume um like a sanitized version of forgiveness when you are a Christian and forgiveness when you are a Christian and forgiveness when you are a Christian and you're hearing these verses. Um but the you're hearing these verses. Um but the you're hearing these verses. Um but the reality is like God made us for reality is like God made us for reality is like God made us for relationships. So when there's breakage, relationships. So when there's breakage, relationships. So when there's breakage, it hurts. it hurts. it hurts. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And Jesus can sympathize and empathize >> And Jesus can sympathize and empathize >> And Jesus can sympathize and empathize with you. Um with you. Um with you. Um >> but still for your for your good, keep >> but still for your for your good, keep >> but still for your for your good, keep moving in that direction, you know.

moving in that direction, you know. moving in that direction, you know. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> Kevin, I'm so glad you joined us today. >> Kevin, I'm so glad you joined us today. >> Kevin, I'm so glad you joined us today. Oh man, honor to be here. Oh man, honor to be here. Oh man, honor to be here. >> You uh far exceeded expectations for >> You uh far exceeded expectations for >> You uh far exceeded expectations for your first If I H More Time podcast. your first If I H More Time podcast. your first If I H More Time podcast. >> Hey, >> Hey, >> Hey, >> I mean like what like whatever I was >> I mean like what like whatever I was >> I mean like what like whatever I was thinking you crushed, man. You you just thinking you crushed, man. You you just thinking you crushed, man. You you just >> Great job. >> Great job. >> Great job. >> My expectations were extremely high. >> My expectations were extremely high. >> My expectations were extremely high. Always Always Always >> you still hit them, but my expectations >> you still hit them, but my expectations >> you still hit them, but my expectations >> first time first time on a podcast is is >> first time first time on a podcast is is >> first time first time on a podcast is is crushed it. It's a thing. He crushed it. crushed it. It's a thing. He crushed it. crushed it. It's a thing. He crushed it. I'm not surprised, but I'm just saying I'm not surprised, but I'm just saying I'm not surprised, but I'm just saying even though my expectations were high, even though my expectations were high, even though my expectations were high, he still he still he still >> still crushed. I'm speaking about him in >> still crushed. I'm speaking about him in >> still crushed. I'm speaking about him in third person like he's not even in the third person like he's not even in the third person like he's not even in the room. [laughter] room. [laughter] room. [laughter] Let's talk about Kevin now. Let's talk about Kevin now. Let's talk about Kevin now. >> Oh, truly. Thanks for being with us. We >> Oh, truly. Thanks for being with us. We >> Oh, truly. Thanks for being with us. We can't wait to see what happens with can't wait to see what happens with can't wait to see what happens with Mariners Lamada in 2027. Mariners Lamada in 2027. Mariners Lamada in 2027. >> Really starting at Christmas. >> Really starting at Christmas. >> Really starting at Christmas. >> And and really launch team. >> And and really launch team. >> And and really launch team. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is starting now. >> Is starting now. >> Is starting now. >> Now, >> Now, >> Now, >> you know, so you're hearing about it >> you know, so you're hearing about it >> you know, so you're hearing about it early, you podcast amazing listeners. It early, you podcast amazing listeners. It early, you podcast amazing listeners. It will be officially announced will be officially announced will be officially announced >> next weekend. And then you'll be >> next weekend. And then you'll be >> next weekend. And then you'll be there'll be like a handout where you can there'll be like a handout where you can there'll be like a handout where you can sign up and get information. If you live sign up and get information. If you live sign up and get information. If you live in that area, specifically Amarada, but in that area, specifically Amarada, but in that area, specifically Amarada, but right around there, right around there, right around there, >> come on. Whittier, that whole area, >> come on. Whittier, that whole area, >> come on. Whittier, that whole area, Norwalk, Norwalk, Norwalk, >> come on.

>> come on. >> come on. >> Wherever. >> Wherever. >> Wherever. >> We would love for you to be a part of >> We would love for you to be a part of >> We would love for you to be a part of the team. Even if you're like, I I I the team. Even if you're like, I I I the team. Even if you're like, I I I don't know if I'm going to go, but still don't know if I'm going to go, but still don't know if I'm going to go, but still come so that you can know what your come so that you can know what your come so that you can know what your church is doing in your city. church is doing in your city. church is doing in your city. >> At least come to one meeting, >> At least come to one meeting, >> At least come to one meeting, oneformational meeting if you live in oneformational meeting if you live in oneformational meeting if you live in that area. So So you have real clarity that area. So So you have real clarity that area. So So you have real clarity on, hey, this is my church. This is my on, hey, this is my church. This is my on, hey, this is my church. This is my city. Let's see how these two meet city. Let's see how these two meet city. Let's see how these two meet together. together. together. >> Our podcast listeners are the best. I >> Our podcast listeners are the best. I >> Our podcast listeners are the best. I think they're gonna listen. think they're gonna listen. think they're gonna listen. >> I've I've got zero doubt. That's why I'm >> I've I've got zero doubt. That's why I'm >> I've I've got zero doubt. That's why I'm giving them information because I giving them information because I giving them information because I believe in I believe in you. [laughter] believe in I believe in you. [laughter] believe in I believe in you. [laughter] >> Thank you guys for listening to the If I >> Thank you guys for listening to the If I >> Thank you guys for listening to the If I Had More Time podcast.