Does God PREDESTINE Some People to HELL!? | Live Free with Josh Howerton

For a Calvinist, the mystery is in the For a Calvinist, the mystery is in the past. For an Armenian, the mystery is in past. For an Armenian, the mystery is in past. For an Armenian, the mystery is in the future. the future. the future. >> What if I am not elect? What if God >> What if I am not elect? What if God >> What if I am not elect? What if God didn't choose me? Let me just read the didn't choose me? Let me just read the didn't choose me? Let me just read the Bible. John 6:37. Whoever comes to me, I Bible. John 6:37. Whoever comes to me, I Bible. John 6:37. Whoever comes to me, I will never cast out. will never cast out. will never cast out. >> There are questions that both sides have >> There are questions that both sides have >> There are questions that both sides have a tough time answering because there is a tough time answering because there is a tough time answering because there is scripture in support of both. And there scripture in support of both. And there scripture in support of both. And there is logic in support of both and they're is logic in support of both and they're is logic in support of both and they're really tough verses. really tough verses. really tough verses. >> Well, hey, Lifree Nation. Before we jump >> Well, hey, Lifree Nation. Before we jump >> Well, hey, Lifree Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is into the episode, this podcast is into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lakeoint Church recorded right here at Lakeoint Church recorded right here at Lakeoint Church in Dallas, Texas. But the Liver Free in Dallas, Texas. But the Liver Free in Dallas, Texas. But the Liver Free Nation is spread all over the country Nation is spread all over the country Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've and all around the world. So if you've and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish been watching and thinking, man, I wish been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this, I could be part of something like this, I could be part of something like this, we want to invite you to take a simple we want to invite you to take a simple we want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for next step, and that is join us for next step, and that is join us for church online. Every weekend, we stream church online. Every weekend, we stream church online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, our services live on YouTube, Facebook, our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online [music] platform. and our church online [music] platform. and our church online [music] platform. And it's more than just watching a And it's more than just watching a And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the service. There are live hosts in the service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with chat, prayer teams ready to stand with chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you, and people all around the world you, and people all around the world you, and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so worshiping together in real time. And so worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, whether you're exploring the faith, whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking coming back to church, or just looking coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, church online is a for a place to start, church online is a for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what great way to jump in and experience what great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We God is doing here at Lake Point. We God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this would love to see you in the chat this would love to see you in the chat this weekend. And now enjoy the podcast.

weekend. And now enjoy the podcast. weekend. And now enjoy the podcast. Well, hey, welcome back to another Well, hey, welcome back to another Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Lifree Podcast. My name episode of the Lifree Podcast. My name episode of the Lifree Podcast. My name is Carlos Roso and today I'm excited is Carlos Roso and today I'm excited is Carlos Roso and today I'm excited because I'm here with the one and only because I'm here with the one and only because I'm here with the one and only Chad G. Pauly the epistle missile, Paul Chad G. Pauly the epistle missile, Paul Chad G. Pauly the epistle missile, Paul Cunningham. Cunningham. Cunningham. >> What is up, my man? I have not heard >> What is up, my man? I have not heard >> What is up, my man? I have not heard epistle missile in forever. epistle missile in forever. epistle missile in forever. Bro, Bro, Bro, >> I feel like Yeah, I feel like there's a >> I feel like Yeah, I feel like there's a >> I feel like Yeah, I feel like there's a a very small but very vocal minority a very small but very vocal minority a very small but very vocal minority that that's their favorite nickname. So, that that's their favorite nickname. So, that that's their favorite nickname. So, anywhere anytime I'm out in public and anywhere anytime I'm out in public and anywhere anytime I'm out in public and they see me, they call me the epistle they see me, they call me the epistle they see me, they call me the epistle missile. missile. missile. >> Well, when you're going to come in with >> Well, when you're going to come in with >> Well, when you're going to come in with a chart or a graph, bro, this is an a chart or a graph, bro, this is an a chart or a graph, bro, this is an epistle missile episode. epistle missile episode. epistle missile episode. >> And I've got some I've got some today. >> And I've got some I've got some today. >> And I've got some I've got some today. >> I'm excited. Hey, where is Pastor Josh? >> I'm excited. Hey, where is Pastor Josh? >> I'm excited. Hey, where is Pastor Josh? >> Oh, man. Pastor Josh usually obviously >> Oh, man. Pastor Josh usually obviously >> Oh, man. Pastor Josh usually obviously is with us, but we record this on is with us, but we record this on is with us, but we record this on Thursday afternoons and we had something Thursday afternoons and we had something Thursday afternoons and we had something called vision night where we got to give called vision night where we got to give called vision night where we got to give a preview of where we believe God is a preview of where we believe God is a preview of where we believe God is taking us over the next several years as taking us over the next several years as taking us over the next several years as a church. And so he really had to focus a church. And so he really had to focus a church. And so he really had to focus on that. If you missed that night, by on that. If you missed that night, by on that. If you missed that night, by the way, uh we will be revealing more the way, uh we will be revealing more the way, uh we will be revealing more details in the coming months. But we've details in the coming months. But we've details in the coming months. But we've got some really cool and exciting got some really cool and exciting got some really cool and exciting things. But Pastor Josh needed to focus things. But Pastor Josh needed to focus things. But Pastor Josh needed to focus on that and prep for that. So you and I on that and prep for that. So you and I on that and prep for that. So you and I get to talk some really easy things get to talk some really easy things get to talk some really easy things today. You know, like does God predestin today. You know, like does God predestin today. You know, like does God predestin people to hell? You know, he leaves and people to hell? You know, he leaves and people to hell? You know, he leaves and then we get to cover that by ourselves. then we get to cover that by ourselves. then we get to cover that by ourselves. >> So today we're going to go second >> So today we're going to go second >> So today we're going to go second Timothy uh chapter 2 and right chapter Timothy uh chapter 2 and right chapter Timothy uh chapter 2 and right chapter 2. Okay. And what does it mean to be 2. Okay. And what does it mean to be 2. Okay. And what does it mean to be like a soldier, farmer, and athlete?

like a soldier, farmer, and athlete? like a soldier, farmer, and athlete? We're going to do like a little bit of a We're going to do like a little bit of a We're going to do like a little bit of a deep dive there. Uh, but like you said, deep dive there. Uh, but like you said, deep dive there. Uh, but like you said, Paul, we're gonna talk about Paul, we're gonna talk about Paul, we're gonna talk about predestination. It's one of those easy predestination. It's one of those easy predestination. It's one of those easy topics to talk about. topics to talk about. topics to talk about. >> So easy. Never divisive or heated. Yeah. >> So easy. Never divisive or heated. Yeah. >> So easy. Never divisive or heated. Yeah. >> Everybody feels so much better after. >> Everybody feels so much better after. >> Everybody feels so much better after. Yep. Yep. Yep. >> Right. Everybody feels like hugging each >> Right. Everybody feels like hugging each >> Right. Everybody feels like hugging each other. other. other. >> That's exactly right. >> That's exactly right. >> That's exactly right. >> Not that we're going to do that in this >> Not that we're going to do that in this >> Not that we're going to do that in this case, obviously. But, uh, case, obviously. But, uh, case, obviously. But, uh, >> it's like this conversation was like >> it's like this conversation was like >> it's like this conversation was like predestined to happen. predestined to happen. predestined to happen. >> Bro, I will say this. >> Bro, I will say this. >> Bro, I will say this. >> Or are we choosing to do it? >> Or are we choosing to do it? >> Or are we choosing to do it? >> People don't know this, but it's true. >> People don't know this, but it's true. >> People don't know this, but it's true. Like, we originally thought, hey, what Like, we originally thought, hey, what Like, we originally thought, hey, what if we did an episode on obviously if we did an episode on obviously if we did an episode on obviously predestination, and then like something predestination, and then like something predestination, and then like something changed and then we're like, okay, we're changed and then we're like, okay, we're changed and then we're like, okay, we're not going to go there. we're going to go not going to go there. we're going to go not going to go there. we're going to go somewhere different because of the text. somewhere different because of the text. somewhere different because of the text. And then like literally like hours And then like literally like hours And then like literally like hours before we're recording this, we decided before we're recording this, we decided before we're recording this, we decided that for several circumstances, we were that for several circumstances, we were that for several circumstances, we were going to talk about this, which honestly going to talk about this, which honestly going to talk about this, which honestly if that's not proof of predestination, I if that's not proof of predestination, I if that's not proof of predestination, I don't know what. don't know what. don't know what. >> I was going to say we decided or we >> I was going to say we decided or we >> I was going to say we decided or we could also say it was meant to be. could also say it was meant to be. could also say it was meant to be. >> Oh, so we didn't really decide, right? >> Oh, so we didn't really decide, right? >> Oh, so we didn't really decide, right? Cuz it was decided for us. Cuz it was decided for us. Cuz it was decided for us. >> Yes, both. >> Yes, both. >> Yes, both. >> Oh, interesting. >> Oh, interesting. >> Oh, interesting. >> Both. We'll get there. I'm getting too >> Both. We'll get there. I'm getting too >> Both. We'll get there. I'm getting too far ahead of us. far ahead of us. far ahead of us. >> We're getting excited. So, we're going >> We're getting excited. So, we're going >> We're getting excited. So, we're going to go predestination. We're going to to go predestination. We're going to to go predestination. We're going to specifically talk about Calvinism versus specifically talk about Calvinism versus specifically talk about Calvinism versus Armenianism. You're going to label them Armenianism. You're going to label them Armenianism. You're going to label them a little bit differently. We might have a little bit differently. We might have a little bit differently. We might have a little bit of a debate between Paul a little bit of a debate between Paul a little bit of a debate between Paul and I. We shall see.

and I. We shall see. and I. We shall see. >> Uh it should be fun. We have people >> Uh it should be fun. We have people >> Uh it should be fun. We have people don't know this. We have a lot of don't know this. We have a lot of don't know this. We have a lot of debates, you and me, uh on a regular. debates, you and me, uh on a regular. debates, you and me, uh on a regular. They're really fun. They're really fun. They're really fun. >> If we could ever set up hidden cameras, >> If we could ever set up hidden cameras, >> If we could ever set up hidden cameras, I feel like that could be its own TV I feel like that could be its own TV I feel like that could be its own TV show show show >> at some point. We we need to >> at some point. We we need to >> at some point. We we need to >> because usually we're a lot of times >> because usually we're a lot of times >> because usually we're a lot of times we're just disagreeing for fun. Like we we're just disagreeing for fun. Like we we're just disagreeing for fun. Like we actually agree with each other, but actually agree with each other, but actually agree with each other, but we're just doing it just to banter and we're just doing it just to banter and we're just doing it just to banter and have fun. have fun. have fun. >> Yes, we are legitimately disagreeing. >> Yes, we are legitimately disagreeing. >> Yes, we are legitimately disagreeing. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Yes, there are those two. >> Yes, there are those two. >> Yes, there are those two. >> Uh and and we learn from each other. At >> Uh and and we learn from each other. At >> Uh and and we learn from each other. At least I do. I I don't know about you. Uh least I do. I I don't know about you. Uh least I do. I I don't know about you. Uh but we going to go frequently shouted but we going to go frequently shouted but we going to go frequently shouted questions on predestination and hell uh questions on predestination and hell uh questions on predestination and hell uh that we have not answered yet on the that we have not answered yet on the that we have not answered yet on the pod. What? What was that? pod. What? What was that? pod. What? What was that? >> I just laughed cuz I felt bad cuz you >> I just laughed cuz I felt bad cuz you >> I just laughed cuz I felt bad cuz you said that and then I didn't say anything said that and then I didn't say anything said that and then I didn't say anything in response and it made it feel like I in response and it made it feel like I in response and it made it feel like I was like like I know what you believe. was like like I know what you believe. was like like I know what you believe. That was not a backhanded comp. That was not a backhanded comp. That was not a backhanded comp. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] You literally said yes. That's great. You literally said yes. That's great. You literally said yes. That's great. >> I I learned so much from you. I don't >> I I learned so much from you. I don't >> I I learned so much from you. I don't learn from you. That is not what I said learn from you. That is not what I said learn from you. That is not what I said at all. I learned so much from you. I at all. I learned so much from you. I at all. I learned so much from you. I love you. I love you man. I don't I got love you. I love you man. I don't I got love you. I love you man. I don't I got no shame. I'm here to learn from you, no shame. I'm here to learn from you, no shame. I'm here to learn from you, bro. And so, uh, one person is getting bro. And so, uh, one person is getting bro. And so, uh, one person is getting more out of this conversation than the more out of this conversation than the more out of this conversation than the other. I'm just going to put it that other. I'm just going to put it that other. I'm just going to put it that we're going to be answering, uh, we're going to be answering, uh, we're going to be answering, uh, frequently shattered questions like, if frequently shattered questions like, if frequently shattered questions like, if God chooses who is saved, check this one God chooses who is saved, check this one God chooses who is saved, check this one out. Does that mean that God chooses who out. Does that mean that God chooses who out. Does that mean that God chooses who goes to hell?

goes to hell? goes to hell? >> Um, why would we even want to preach or >> Um, why would we even want to preach or >> Um, why would we even want to preach or share our faith if people are already share our faith if people are already share our faith if people are already quote unquote elect? quote unquote elect? quote unquote elect? >> Uh, and then what about those passages >> Uh, and then what about those passages >> Uh, and then what about those passages in the Bible that seem to say otherwise? in the Bible that seem to say otherwise? in the Bible that seem to say otherwise? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, bro, it's going to be it's going to >> So, bro, it's going to be it's going to >> So, bro, it's going to be it's going to be good. Hey, we just uh wrapped week be good. Hey, we just uh wrapped week be good. Hey, we just uh wrapped week number three. number three. number three. >> Three, I believe. Yeah. Uh, Pastor Mike >> Three, I believe. Yeah. Uh, Pastor Mike >> Three, I believe. Yeah. Uh, Pastor Mike did a great job here. In just a second, did a great job here. In just a second, did a great job here. In just a second, we're going to talk about that. But, uh, we're going to talk about that. But, uh, we're going to talk about that. But, uh, man, I want to take a second. This is man, I want to take a second. This is man, I want to take a second. This is something that's a big deal for our something that's a big deal for our something that's a big deal for our church. We are getting ready to launch church. We are getting ready to launch church. We are getting ready to launch Rooted, which is our 10-week disciplehip Rooted, which is our 10-week disciplehip Rooted, which is our 10-week disciplehip program here. It's a big deal. So, if program here. It's a big deal. So, if program here. It's a big deal. So, if you're part of Lakeoint, September 8th you're part of Lakeoint, September 8th you're part of Lakeoint, September 8th is when we're launching a bunch of is when we're launching a bunch of is when we're launching a bunch of rooted groups. And this is basically an rooted groups. And this is basically an rooted groups. And this is basically an opportunity for you. Uh, we'll say this opportunity for you. Uh, we'll say this opportunity for you. Uh, we'll say this often, disciplehip happens in often, disciplehip happens in often, disciplehip happens in relationships. Yes. And if you are part relationships. Yes. And if you are part relationships. Yes. And if you are part of our church and are not yet plugged of our church and are not yet plugged of our church and are not yet plugged into a rooted group, you you need to. into a rooted group, you you need to. into a rooted group, you you need to. And so to we can help you. This is an And so to we can help you. This is an And so to we can help you. This is an in-person only experience. If you are in-person only experience. If you are in-person only experience. If you are outside of the DFW area, we want to outside of the DFW area, we want to outside of the DFW area, we want to encourage you to find a local church, encourage you to find a local church, encourage you to find a local church, get plugged in. This is a big deal. Um get plugged in. This is a big deal. Um get plugged in. This is a big deal. Um you were not meant to follow Jesus in you were not meant to follow Jesus in you were not meant to follow Jesus in isolation. So if that's you and you're isolation. So if that's you and you're isolation. So if that's you and you're in the area, come hang out. Um text the in the area, come hang out. Um text the in the area, come hang out. Um text the word rooted to 2041. And we'd love to word rooted to 2041. And we'd love to word rooted to 2041. And we'd love to help you find a group for you to be in help you find a group for you to be in help you find a group for you to be in for September 8th. Um, also if you are for September 8th. Um, also if you are for September 8th. Um, also if you are part of the Lififor Nation and ever come part of the Lififor Nation and ever come part of the Lififor Nation and ever come want to come and take a selfie with want to come and take a selfie with want to come and take a selfie with Pastor Paul because it's literally all Pastor Paul because it's literally all Pastor Paul because it's literally all he does these days. Like I'm literally he does these days. Like I'm literally he does these days. Like I'm literally in the lobby and he's just like taking in the lobby and he's just like taking in the lobby and he's just like taking selfies like with everybody. [laughter] selfies like with everybody. [laughter] selfies like with everybody. [laughter] >> I was going to say not by myself. That >> I was going to say not by myself. That >> I was going to say not by myself. That would be really awkward.

would be really awkward. would be really awkward. >> He's like he's like signing like >> He's like he's like signing like >> He's like he's like signing like people's like, you know, forearms and uh people's like, you know, forearms and uh people's like, you know, forearms and uh their Bibles. You signing Bibles, bro? their Bibles. You signing Bibles, bro? their Bibles. You signing Bibles, bro? >> No. I I I don't >> No. I I I don't >> No. I I I don't >> It's okay. It's okay. He's too No, it's >> It's okay. It's okay. He's too No, it's >> It's okay. It's okay. He's too No, it's just weird. It's like I think the last just weird. It's like I think the last just weird. It's like I think the last time someone did it, they asked me to do time someone did it, they asked me to do time someone did it, they asked me to do it, I said, "All right, sure." I went to it, I said, "All right, sure." I went to it, I said, "All right, sure." I went to like I think like the table of contents like I think like the table of contents like I think like the table of contents or like the front thing and I was like I or like the front thing and I was like I or like the front thing and I was like I I think I said this book changed my life I think I said this book changed my life I think I said this book changed my life and then signed my name or something and then signed my name or something and then signed my name or something like that. I don't I don't know. It just like that. I don't I don't know. It just like that. I don't I don't know. It just feels weird. feels weird. feels weird. >> Such a I don't know how those two relate >> Such a I don't know how those two relate >> Such a I don't know how those two relate but already throwing labels already. but already throwing labels already. but already throwing labels already. >> You're a very humble guy. Okay. >> You're a very humble guy. Okay. >> You're a very humble guy. Okay. >> But no, anyways. >> But no, anyways. >> But no, anyways. >> Okay. Uh so if you ever want to get a >> Okay. Uh so if you ever want to get a >> Okay. Uh so if you ever want to get a selfie with Chad Posi, you can you can selfie with Chad Posi, you can you can selfie with Chad Posi, you can you can come and visit us at any part of our uh come and visit us at any part of our uh come and visit us at any part of our uh any any of our locations. We'd love to any any of our locations. We'd love to any any of our locations. We'd love to meet you in person. And we got meet you in person. And we got meet you in person. And we got >> Am I omniresent? Like [laughter] I can >> Am I omniresent? Like [laughter] I can >> Am I omniresent? Like [laughter] I can like like like all multiple campuses, right? all multiple campuses, right? all multiple campuses, right? >> I do. [laughter] >> I do. [laughter] >> I do. [laughter] >> There you go. That's important. >> There you go. That's important. >> There you go. That's important. >> Uh also, man, we got some uh merch that >> Uh also, man, we got some uh merch that >> Uh also, man, we got some uh merch that we want to make sure we give away. Every we want to make sure we give away. Every we want to make sure we give away. Every single week we do a giveaway. Go on single week we do a giveaway. Go on single week we do a giveaway. Go on YouTube or Spotify. We'd love to hook YouTube or Spotify. We'd love to hook YouTube or Spotify. We'd love to hook you up. Uh comment hat to uh in the you up. Uh comment hat to uh in the you up. Uh comment hat to uh in the comments right now on Spotify and comments right now on Spotify and comments right now on Spotify and YouTube. Bro, are you okay?

YouTube. Bro, are you okay? YouTube. Bro, are you okay? >> I'm [laughter] okay. Uh people again, >> I'm [laughter] okay. Uh people again, >> I'm [laughter] okay. Uh people again, what I love is before we get into the what I love is before we get into the what I love is before we get into the conversation a bit, this is actually conversation a bit, this is actually conversation a bit, this is actually probably the most accurate picture of probably the most accurate picture of probably the most accurate picture of what we're like when we're together off what we're like when we're together off what we're like when we're together off off camera. We just banter back and off camera. We just banter back and off camera. We just banter back and forth like this. So sometimes even forth like this. So sometimes even forth like this. So sometimes even though we missper Josh, sometimes when though we missper Josh, sometimes when though we missper Josh, sometimes when it's just you and me, it's just like I it's just you and me, it's just like I it's just you and me, it's just like I feel we snap into our mode where we just feel we snap into our mode where we just feel we snap into our mode where we just going back and forth. Maybe it's fun. going back and forth. Maybe it's fun. going back and forth. Maybe it's fun. It's fun. We shall see. We're just It's fun. We shall see. We're just It's fun. We shall see. We're just getting started here. getting started here. getting started here. >> But no. Oh yeah. So like yeah, comment >> But no. Oh yeah. So like yeah, comment >> But no. Oh yeah. So like yeah, comment hat. Is that what you're saying? hat. Is that what you're saying? hat. Is that what you're saying? >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And then also to let people know cuz we >> And then also to let people know cuz we >> And then also to let people know cuz we may have forgotten this is we did a may have forgotten this is we did a may have forgotten this is we did a thing where they could name the bear thing where they could name the bear thing where they could name the bear skull. skull. skull. >> That's right. It's over there. We can >> That's right. It's over there. We can >> That's right. It's over there. We can see it. see it. see it. >> Yeah. I think it's somewhere back over >> Yeah. I think it's somewhere back over >> Yeah. I think it's somewhere back over there. there. there. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And we're going to wait cuz we feel like >> And we're going to wait cuz we feel like >> And we're going to wait cuz we feel like we probably shouldn't choose the name. we probably shouldn't choose the name. we probably shouldn't choose the name. We asked people to comment on the We asked people to comment on the We asked people to comment on the different names. Probably shouldn't different names. Probably shouldn't different names. Probably shouldn't choose that without Pastor Josh. You choose that without Pastor Josh. You choose that without Pastor Josh. You ever killed a bear? ever killed a bear? ever killed a bear? >> I have not. >> I have not. >> I have not. >> I have. I have. I shot a bear one time. >> I have. I have. I shot a bear one time. >> I have. I have. I shot a bear one time. You did? Yeah. I was in Washington. You did? Yeah. I was in Washington. You did? Yeah. I was in Washington. >> Did you kill animals? >> Did you kill animals? >> Did you kill animals? >> Yes, I do. [laughter] >> Yes, I do. [laughter] >> Yes, I do. [laughter] >> Why do you hate animals? >> Why do you hate animals? >> Why do you hate animals? >> All kinds of animals. I like deer and >> All kinds of animals. I like deer and >> All kinds of animals. I like deer and elk and Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. Once elk and Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. Once elk and Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. Once you really hunt something. I wish I'd you really hunt something. I wish I'd you really hunt something. I wish I'd have known we were talking about this. I have known we were talking about this. I have known we were talking about this. I would have like gotten a picture in like would have like gotten a picture in like would have like gotten a picture in like the bearclaw and other stuff. It was It the bearclaw and other stuff. It was It the bearclaw and other stuff. It was It was a decent good size. It was a decent was a decent good size. It was a decent was a decent good size. It was a decent good size.

good size. good size. >> That looks like a small bear. >> That looks like a small bear. >> That looks like a small bear. >> It kind of does look small bear. Hope >> It kind of does look small bear. Hope >> It kind of does look small bear. Hope hope that wasn't a cub. hope that wasn't a cub. hope that wasn't a cub. >> Josh would probably Pastor Josh would >> Josh would probably Pastor Josh would >> Josh would probably Pastor Josh would probably not appreciate that. probably not appreciate that. probably not appreciate that. >> Probably would not. But anyways, so >> Probably would not. But anyways, so >> Probably would not. But anyways, so yeah. So we will decide that next week yeah. So we will decide that next week yeah. So we will decide that next week when he is back. That's right. We would when he is back. That's right. We would when he is back. That's right. We would decided decided decided >> and if you want some merch. So you don't >> and if you want some merch. So you don't >> and if you want some merch. So you don't have to actually wait for the giveaway. have to actually wait for the giveaway. have to actually wait for the giveaway. You can just go to liveree.shop uh or You can just go to liveree.shop uh or You can just go to liveree.shop uh or text the word hat to20411 and you can text the word hat to20411 and you can text the word hat to20411 and you can literally we have a merch shop available literally we have a merch shop available literally we have a merch shop available for you. Um, thank you for subscribing for you. Um, thank you for subscribing for you. Um, thank you for subscribing and liking everybody and also to and liking everybody and also to and liking everybody and also to download the Lakeoint app to get the download the Lakeoint app to get the download the Lakeoint app to get the daily Bible reading plan plus the weekly daily Bible reading plan plus the weekly daily Bible reading plan plus the weekly sermon plus an early release of this sermon plus an early release of this sermon plus an early release of this live free episode. You can do that by live free episode. You can do that by live free episode. You can do that by texting the word app to20411. Uh, or go texting the word app to20411. Uh, or go texting the word app to20411. Uh, or go to Apple or Google Play Store. Hey, uh, to Apple or Google Play Store. Hey, uh, to Apple or Google Play Store. Hey, uh, did I have anything else? Oh, yeah. I I did I have anything else? Oh, yeah. I I did I have anything else? Oh, yeah. I I got got got >> I was going to I was actually going to >> I was going to I was actually going to >> I was going to I was actually going to ask you, we were talking beforehand. ask you, we were talking beforehand. ask you, we were talking beforehand. Hey, have you been like reading anything Hey, have you been like reading anything Hey, have you been like reading anything interesting lately? You've been diving interesting lately? You've been diving interesting lately? You've been diving into anything? I know you're a big into anything? I know you're a big into anything? I know you're a big reader. Have you been reading anything reader. Have you been reading anything reader. Have you been reading anything interesting? interesting? interesting? >> Well, okay, Paul. So this is this is >> Well, okay, Paul. So this is this is >> Well, okay, Paul. So this is this is true. I've literally read the Bible my true. I've literally read the Bible my true. I've literally read the Bible my whole life and I literally just found whole life and I literally just found whole life and I literally just found about this uh hidden historical detail about this uh hidden historical detail about this uh hidden historical detail in the book of in the book of in the book of >> Jonah. Okay, >> Jonah. Okay, >> Jonah. Okay, >> in the story of Jonah. So check this >> in the story of Jonah. So check this >> in the story of Jonah. So check this out. So if you've ever read the story of out. So if you've ever read the story of out. So if you've ever read the story of Jonah, have you ever wondered like this Jonah, have you ever wondered like this Jonah, have you ever wondered like this is such a a bizarre story? Like if you is such a a bizarre story? Like if you is such a a bizarre story? Like if you think about it about what the plot is, think about it about what the plot is, think about it about what the plot is, basically here's a prophet. He's like a basically here's a prophet. He's like a basically here's a prophet. He's like a bad prophet basically. Probably one of bad prophet basically. Probably one of bad prophet basically. Probably one of the worst prophets in the Bible, if not the worst prophets in the Bible, if not the worst prophets in the Bible, if not the worst one. And God calls him and the worst one. And God calls him and the worst one. And God calls him and he's like, "No, I'm not going to do he's like, "No, I'm not going to do he's like, "No, I'm not going to do that." He goes the opposite direction. a that." He goes the opposite direction. a that." He goes the opposite direction. a fish swallows him and then uh at some fish swallows him and then uh at some fish swallows him and then uh at some point the the the fish spits him out and point the the the fish spits him out and point the the the fish spits him out and then he's preaching repentance and then then he's preaching repentance and then then he's preaching repentance and then this really rebellious pagan city just this really rebellious pagan city just this really rebellious pagan city just repents out of the blue.

repents out of the blue. repents out of the blue. >> And so that's basically the whole story. >> And so that's basically the whole story. >> And so that's basically the whole story. It's a small it's a short book. Uh but It's a small it's a short book. Uh but It's a small it's a short book. Uh but there's something more happening behind there's something more happening behind there's something more happening behind the scenes that a lot of people have no the scenes that a lot of people have no the scenes that a lot of people have no idea and this is really interesting. idea and this is really interesting. idea and this is really interesting. This is going to be this is going to This is going to be this is going to This is going to be this is going to blow your mind. So Nineveh is actually blow your mind. So Nineveh is actually blow your mind. So Nineveh is actually the capital of the Assyrian Empire. So the capital of the Assyrian Empire. So the capital of the Assyrian Empire. So if you know a little bit about the if you know a little bit about the if you know a little bit about the culture, Mesopotamia back in the day, it culture, Mesopotamia back in the day, it culture, Mesopotamia back in the day, it would be a polytheistic culture, which would be a polytheistic culture, which would be a polytheistic culture, which means that they would have a lot of means that they would have a lot of means that they would have a lot of different gods, little g pagan gods that different gods, little g pagan gods that different gods, little g pagan gods that they would worship. And there's this one they would worship. And there's this one they would worship. And there's this one particular god, this is historical, you particular god, this is historical, you particular god, this is historical, you can look it up, called anis. And this can look it up, called anis. And this can look it up, called anis. And this one particular god was believed to one particular god was believed to one particular god was believed to eventually at some point would come out eventually at some point would come out eventually at some point would come out of the water to provide uh divine wisdom of the water to provide uh divine wisdom of the water to provide uh divine wisdom and teach humans the foundations of and teach humans the foundations of and teach humans the foundations of civilization. So, do you want to see a civilization. So, do you want to see a civilization. So, do you want to see a photo of a visual representation of what photo of a visual representation of what photo of a visual representation of what these guys believe this pagan god looked these guys believe this pagan god looked these guys believe this pagan god looked like? This is a photo right here. like? This is a photo right here. like? This is a photo right here. >> So, that right there is the visual >> So, that right there is the visual >> So, that right there is the visual depiction of this pagan god, Awanis. And depiction of this pagan god, Awanis. And depiction of this pagan god, Awanis. And again, it looks like it's a man with a again, it looks like it's a man with a again, it looks like it's a man with a fish on top. Or you could say a man fish on top. Or you could say a man fish on top. Or you could say a man coming out of a fish. Now, I want you to coming out of a fish. Now, I want you to coming out of a fish. Now, I want you to imagine, Paul, if you are if you were a imagine, Paul, if you are if you were a imagine, Paul, if you are if you were a pagan fisherman at the time and you're pagan fisherman at the time and you're pagan fisherman at the time and you're kind of out there doing your thing at kind of out there doing your thing at kind of out there doing your thing at the coast of the Med Mediterranean and the coast of the Med Mediterranean and the coast of the Med Mediterranean and uh all of a sudden you see this fish uh all of a sudden you see this fish uh all of a sudden you see this fish literally come out and there's uh this literally come out and there's uh this literally come out and there's uh this man coming out of the mouth of the fish man coming out of the mouth of the fish man coming out of the mouth of the fish and he's out there preaching repentance and he's out there preaching repentance and he's out there preaching repentance in the name of this deity, in the name in the name of this deity, in the name in the name of this deity, in the name of God, and all of a sudden people are of God, and all of a sudden people are of God, and all of a sudden people are listening to this. Some people think listening to this. Some people think listening to this. Some people think that when some people have would have that when some people have would have that when some people have would have seen this person, this preacher come out seen this person, this preacher come out seen this person, this preacher come out of this fish, they would have been like, of this fish, they would have been like, of this fish, they would have been like, man, uh actually that would have

man, uh actually that would have man, uh actually that would have associated with their pagan god. But at associated with their pagan god. But at associated with their pagan god. But at some point, they would have realized, some point, they would have realized, some point, they would have realized, hey, actually this is not one of these hey, actually this is not one of these hey, actually this is not one of these little G gods. This is the real god little G gods. This is the real god little G gods. This is the real god revealing himself, giving us wisdom and revealing himself, giving us wisdom and revealing himself, giving us wisdom and telling us that if we don't repent, he telling us that if we don't repent, he telling us that if we don't repent, he will destroy us in judgment. And so will destroy us in judgment. And so will destroy us in judgment. And so that's that's amazing. One, that that's that's that's amazing. One, that that's that's that's amazing. One, that that's that's that's what I was want to show that's that's what I was want to show that's that's what I was want to show you. But two, there's more. Uh, if you you. But two, there's more. Uh, if you you. But two, there's more. Uh, if you keep thinking about this story, why keep thinking about this story, why keep thinking about this story, why would God even choose Jonah in the first would God even choose Jonah in the first would God even choose Jonah in the first place? If he knew, and this ties into place? If he knew, and this ties into place? If he knew, and this ties into our conversation, if he knew that Jonah our conversation, if he knew that Jonah our conversation, if he knew that Jonah was such a bad prophet and he was going was such a bad prophet and he was going was such a bad prophet and he was going to rebel and run, um, why would he do to rebel and run, um, why would he do to rebel and run, um, why would he do that? And here here's why. that? And here here's why. that? And here here's why. >> Because Jonah may have been running from >> Because Jonah may have been running from >> Because Jonah may have been running from God, but he was never outside of the God, but he was never outside of the God, but he was never outside of the sovereignty of God. sovereignty of God. sovereignty of God. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And so, from the very beginning, God in >> And so, from the very beginning, God in >> And so, from the very beginning, God in his sovereignty, in his grace, he picked his sovereignty, in his grace, he picked his sovereignty, in his grace, he picked Jonah to be his messenger, be his Jonah to be his messenger, be his Jonah to be his messenger, be his prophet. And he knew Jonah was going to prophet. And he knew Jonah was going to prophet. And he knew Jonah was going to rebel and go the opposite direction. In rebel and go the opposite direction. In rebel and go the opposite direction. In fact, he knew that at some point Jonah fact, he knew that at some point Jonah fact, he knew that at some point Jonah was going to meet these pagan sailors was going to meet these pagan sailors was going to meet these pagan sailors who uh did not know the real God. And who uh did not know the real God. And who uh did not know the real God. And eventually because of the encounter with eventually because of the encounter with eventually because of the encounter with Jonah and because of everything that Jonah and because of everything that Jonah and because of everything that happened, eventually they would worship happened, eventually they would worship happened, eventually they would worship God. God knew from the very beginning God. God knew from the very beginning God. God knew from the very beginning that Jonah was going to be swallowed by that Jonah was going to be swallowed by that Jonah was going to be swallowed by a fish and he was going to spend three a fish and he was going to spend three a fish and he was going to spend three days and three nights inside the fish, days and three nights inside the fish, days and three nights inside the fish, which would be a prophetic sign for the which would be a prophetic sign for the which would be a prophetic sign for the Messiah. years later, Jesus said, "I am Messiah. years later, Jesus said, "I am Messiah. years later, Jesus said, "I am the son of man." That just like Jonah, the son of man." That just like Jonah, the son of man." That just like Jonah, uh, just like Jonah spent three days and uh, just like Jonah spent three days and uh, just like Jonah spent three days and three nights in the fish, I'm going to three nights in the fish, I'm going to three nights in the fish, I'm going to spend three days and three nights in the spend three days and three nights in the spend three days and three nights in the tomb, in the grave, Jonah came out of tomb, in the grave, Jonah came out of tomb, in the grave, Jonah came out of the fish. Jesus came out of the grave.

the fish. Jesus came out of the grave. the fish. Jesus came out of the grave. God knew that's exactly what's going to God knew that's exactly what's going to God knew that's exactly what's going to happen. In fact, the whole process of happen. In fact, the whole process of happen. In fact, the whole process of him rebelling and running away from God him rebelling and running away from God him rebelling and running away from God and eventually repenting and obeying and eventually repenting and obeying and eventually repenting and obeying God, God knew he was going to use that God, God knew he was going to use that God, God knew he was going to use that testimony, that story, that experience, testimony, that story, that experience, testimony, that story, that experience, and eventually he was going to use all and eventually he was going to use all and eventually he was going to use all of that for the people to hear the of that for the people to hear the of that for the people to hear the gospel or hear the message of repentance gospel or hear the message of repentance gospel or hear the message of repentance and repent. And so [snorts] let me just and repent. And so [snorts] let me just and repent. And so [snorts] let me just apply to to to you and me. Romans apply to to to you and me. Romans apply to to to you and me. Romans chapter 8 vers 28 says, "And we know chapter 8 vers 28 says, "And we know chapter 8 vers 28 says, "And we know that God works all things for the good that God works all things for the good that God works all things for the good of those who love him, who have been of those who love him, who have been of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." And so called according to his purpose." And so called according to his purpose." And so here's the point. With God, no detail is here's the point. With God, no detail is here's the point. With God, no detail is ever wasted. ever wasted. ever wasted. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> With God, no moment is accidental. God >> With God, no moment is accidental. God >> With God, no moment is accidental. God is good. He is sovereign. And he is is good. He is sovereign. And he is is good. He is sovereign. And he is always working. always working. always working. >> Oh man, I love it. It's the best. I >> Oh man, I love it. It's the best. I >> Oh man, I love it. It's the best. I always like with these things I always always like with these things I always always like with these things I always the the imagery that's coming to my head the the imagery that's coming to my head the the imagery that's coming to my head for a while years now on this uh and for a while years now on this uh and for a while years now on this uh and this includes by the way when our life this includes by the way when our life this includes by the way when our life is chaos because of things that are is chaos because of things that are is chaos because of things that are happening to us or around us that have happening to us or around us that have happening to us or around us that have like we had no choice over but also even like we had no choice over but also even like we had no choice over but also even when sometimes we make a mess of our when sometimes we make a mess of our when sometimes we make a mess of our life and the chaos is because of us. Um life and the chaos is because of us. Um life and the chaos is because of us. Um I like to think of it as this weaver I like to think of it as this weaver I like to think of it as this weaver making this master tapestry. A tapestry making this master tapestry. A tapestry making this master tapestry. A tapestry is literally just this woven a handwoven is literally just this woven a handwoven is literally just this woven a handwoven thing with all these different threads.

thing with all these different threads. thing with all these different threads. Um, and it's a beautiful piece of art, Um, and it's a beautiful piece of art, Um, and it's a beautiful piece of art, but when they're making it, they make it but when they're making it, they make it but when they're making it, they make it either from the top down or bottom up either from the top down or bottom up either from the top down or bottom up typically. And if you zoomed in to where typically. And if you zoomed in to where typically. And if you zoomed in to where they're actually weaving the threads they're actually weaving the threads they're actually weaving the threads together, it looks like chaos. You're together, it looks like chaos. You're together, it looks like chaos. You're talking about hundreds and thousands of talking about hundreds and thousands of talking about hundreds and thousands of threads going in different directions threads going in different directions threads going in different directions and it looks like nothing is going to and it looks like nothing is going to and it looks like nothing is going to bring this all together. But yet, if you bring this all together. But yet, if you bring this all together. But yet, if you zoom out, you realize that there is a zoom out, you realize that there is a zoom out, you realize that there is a master craftsman, a master artist who is master craftsman, a master artist who is master craftsman, a master artist who is weaving every thread just where he wants weaving every thread just where he wants weaving every thread just where he wants it to be and making something beautiful it to be and making something beautiful it to be and making something beautiful out of the chaos. And so it's just a out of the chaos. And so it's just a out of the chaos. And so it's just a reminder to people talking about your reminder to people talking about your reminder to people talking about your sovereignty in Jonah's case, out of his sovereignty in Jonah's case, out of his sovereignty in Jonah's case, out of his obedience, God was able to still take obedience, God was able to still take obedience, God was able to still take that after Jonah repented and then still that after Jonah repented and then still that after Jonah repented and then still do something incredible out of it. I do something incredible out of it. I do something incredible out of it. I hope that people understand that whether hope that people understand that whether hope that people understand that whether it's because of things happening to you it's because of things happening to you it's because of things happening to you or things you've done, God is sovereign or things you've done, God is sovereign or things you've done, God is sovereign and because of that, he is able to take and because of that, he is able to take and because of that, he is able to take our worst decisions or the worst moments our worst decisions or the worst moments our worst decisions or the worst moments of our life and use them for our good of our life and use them for our good of our life and use them for our good and his glory. It's just such a and his glory. It's just such a and his glory. It's just such a beautiful thing, man. That's great news. beautiful thing, man. That's great news. beautiful thing, man. That's great news. >> That's incredible. Incredible details, >> That's incredible. Incredible details, >> That's incredible. Incredible details, man. man. man. >> That's great news. So good. >> That's great news. So good. >> That's great news. So good. >> Well, hey, uh, Pastor and we're going to >> Well, hey, uh, Pastor and we're going to >> Well, hey, uh, Pastor and we're going to keep talking about this. Pastor Mike did keep talking about this. Pastor Mike did keep talking about this. Pastor Mike did a phenomenal job this weekend. Uh good a phenomenal job this weekend. Uh good a phenomenal job this weekend. Uh good old Mike, bro. old Mike, bro. old Mike, bro. >> Man, he's the best. >> Man, he's the best. >> Man, he's the best. >> I love Mike.

>> I love Mike. >> I love Mike. >> And uh man, lots of wisdom every time. >> And uh man, lots of wisdom every time. >> And uh man, lots of wisdom every time. And uh if you have not checked out the And uh if you have not checked out the And uh if you have not checked out the sermon, you can just go on YouTube and sermon, you can just go on YouTube and sermon, you can just go on YouTube and find it. Basically, he shared about this find it. Basically, he shared about this find it. Basically, he shared about this particular segment in second Timothy particular segment in second Timothy particular segment in second Timothy where Paul uses this imagery of uh where Paul uses this imagery of uh where Paul uses this imagery of uh Christian faithfulness. And it's Christian faithfulness. And it's Christian faithfulness. And it's basically a it talks about three things. basically a it talks about three things. basically a it talks about three things. One, a soldier who endures suffering and One, a soldier who endures suffering and One, a soldier who endures suffering and stays focused on the mission. stays focused on the mission. stays focused on the mission. >> Two, an athlete who lives with >> Two, an athlete who lives with >> Two, an athlete who lives with discipline and integrity without taking discipline and integrity without taking discipline and integrity without taking shortcuts. and three, a farmer who shortcuts. and three, a farmer who shortcuts. and three, a farmer who grinds and works hard and patiently grinds and works hard and patiently grinds and works hard and patiently waits for the harvest. And so I love the waits for the harvest. And so I love the waits for the harvest. And so I love the definition that Pastor Mike gave about definition that Pastor Mike gave about definition that Pastor Mike gave about spiritual grit, which is he said it was spiritual grit, which is he said it was spiritual grit, which is he said it was grace plus reliance equals internal grace plus reliance equals internal grace plus reliance equals internal toughness. toughness. toughness. >> Grace plus reliance on God equals >> Grace plus reliance on God equals >> Grace plus reliance on God equals internal toughness. And ultimately, internal toughness. And ultimately, internal toughness. And ultimately, again, his point was that the Christian again, his point was that the Christian again, his point was that the Christian life is not about proving how strong you life is not about proving how strong you life is not about proving how strong you can be. Ultimately, it is about can be. Ultimately, it is about can be. Ultimately, it is about depending on how strong Jesus is, how depending on how strong Jesus is, how depending on how strong Jesus is, how strong Christ is. and you find that strong Christ is. and you find that strong Christ is. and you find that strength in him. And so for that reason, strength in him. And so for that reason, strength in him. And so for that reason, if you're a Christian, man, we we refuse if you're a Christian, man, we we refuse if you're a Christian, man, we we refuse to quit running the race that God has to quit running the race that God has to quit running the race that God has set before us because we have reasons to set before us because we have reasons to set before us because we have reasons to trust in him who gives us that grace who trust in him who gives us that grace who trust in him who gives us that grace who sustains us, who who who strengthens us.

sustains us, who who who strengthens us. sustains us, who who who strengthens us. And then when it becomes difficult or And then when it becomes difficult or And then when it becomes difficult or whenever we feel like, man, I'm not whenever we feel like, man, I'm not whenever we feel like, man, I'm not really seeing results, we keep going. We really seeing results, we keep going. We really seeing results, we keep going. We don't quit. And so what I want to ask don't quit. And so what I want to ask don't quit. And so what I want to ask you Paul man give me uh what's you Paul man give me uh what's you Paul man give me uh what's interesting is in verse 7 after Paul interesting is in verse 7 after Paul interesting is in verse 7 after Paul tells Timothy hey Timothy who is a tells Timothy hey Timothy who is a tells Timothy hey Timothy who is a younger disciple hey you need to be like younger disciple hey you need to be like younger disciple hey you need to be like a soldier like an athlete and like a a soldier like an athlete and like a a soldier like an athlete and like a farmer he says think about these things. farmer he says think about these things. farmer he says think about these things. >> So that's what we're going to do right >> So that's what we're going to do right >> So that's what we're going to do right now. Paul uh give me give me more now. Paul uh give me give me more now. Paul uh give me give me more thoughts on what does that even mean? thoughts on what does that even mean? thoughts on what does that even mean? >> Oh man. Well I love the idea of yeah >> Oh man. Well I love the idea of yeah >> Oh man. Well I love the idea of yeah think on these things. It's almost like think on these things. It's almost like think on these things. It's almost like he's telling, "Hey, man, slow down and he's telling, "Hey, man, slow down and he's telling, "Hey, man, slow down and and like marinate in this." Little and like marinate in this." Little and like marinate in this." Little little pet peeve of mine is when people little pet peeve of mine is when people little pet peeve of mine is when people say marinade on this. Sorry, I'm just say marinade on this. Sorry, I'm just say marinade on this. Sorry, I'm just going to put it out there. This is a going to put it out there. This is a going to put it out there. This is a very niche thing. You did not. You did very niche thing. You did not. You did very niche thing. You did not. You did not. Cuz you don't you don't marinate on not. Cuz you don't you don't marinate on not. Cuz you don't you don't marinate on something, you actually marinate in it. something, you actually marinate in it. something, you actually marinate in it. But again, that's just that's my little But again, that's just that's my little But again, that's just that's my little weird pet peeve that I have. Yeah, it's weird pet peeve that I have. Yeah, it's weird pet peeve that I have. Yeah, it's like soda. Like the idea don't get too like soda. Like the idea don't get too like soda. Like the idea don't get too mad, bro. mad, bro. mad, bro. >> Yeah. Whatever. The idea the idea of >> Yeah. Whatever. The idea the idea of >> Yeah. Whatever. The idea the idea of marinating, sorry, is that usually like marinating, sorry, is that usually like marinating, sorry, is that usually like you man, you want to sit in it and you man, you want to sit in it and you man, you want to sit in it and because the flavor Yeah. Have you like because the flavor Yeah. Have you like because the flavor Yeah. Have you like when you cook a steak or like if you're when you cook a steak or like if you're when you cook a steak or like if you're ever smoking meat, you like marinate it ever smoking meat, you like marinate it ever smoking meat, you like marinate it to kind of get more flavor into it, but to kind of get more flavor into it, but to kind of get more flavor into it, but it takes a while. You got to sit in it it takes a while. You got to sit in it it takes a while. You got to sit in it for a while. So that's that's the idea, for a while. So that's that's the idea, for a while. So that's that's the idea, man. If you'll sit in it and soak it up, man. If you'll sit in it and soak it up, man. If you'll sit in it and soak it up, there's more there. And one of the there's more there. And one of the there's more there. And one of the things that stuck out to me um from from things that stuck out to me um from from things that stuck out to me um from from these three images was the idea of the these three images was the idea of the these three images was the idea of the athlete in training. You know, it says athlete in training. You know, it says athlete in training. You know, it says that the idea of the athlete competes uh that the idea of the athlete competes uh that the idea of the athlete competes uh according to the rules. Now, some people according to the rules. Now, some people according to the rules. Now, some people would maybe think, oh, that means like, would maybe think, oh, that means like, would maybe think, oh, that means like, you know, they don't cheat. Like for you know, they don't cheat. Like for you know, they don't cheat. Like for example, if you were playing in the example, if you were playing in the example, if you were playing in the Super Bowl and deflated the ball so it Super Bowl and deflated the ball so it Super Bowl and deflated the ball so it was easier to grip when it was cold was easier to grip when it was cold was easier to grip when it was cold outside, Tom Brady and uh sorry, I I outside, Tom Brady and uh sorry, I I outside, Tom Brady and uh sorry, I I it's over. And I actually kind of like

it's over. And I actually kind of like it's over. And I actually kind of like Tom more now that he's retired. But Tom more now that he's retired. But Tom more now that he's retired. But still, I'm just saying it's I I hated still, I'm just saying it's I I hated still, I'm just saying it's I I hated the Patriots at one point in my life. the Patriots at one point in my life. the Patriots at one point in my life. >> Dude, you know, I've been one time to an >> Dude, you know, I've been one time to an >> Dude, you know, I've been one time to an actual professional football game. No actual professional football game. No actual professional football game. No way. way. way. >> And it was when Tom Brady played here in >> And it was when Tom Brady played here in >> And it was when Tom Brady played here in the Dallas area. the Dallas area. the Dallas area. >> A man. >> A man. >> A man. >> Go ahead. Go ahead. Proud of that. >> Go ahead. Go ahead. Proud of that. >> Go ahead. Go ahead. Proud of that. >> That's awesome. That's awesome. So >> That's awesome. That's awesome. So >> That's awesome. That's awesome. So anyway, so that's really not what anyway, so that's really not what anyway, so that's really not what actually it's talking about in this actually it's talking about in this actually it's talking about in this passage. So when it talks about passage. So when it talks about passage. So when it talks about competing accordance to the rules in the competing accordance to the rules in the competing accordance to the rules in the in in competitive games at this time, in in competitive games at this time, in in competitive games at this time, especially in the Olympics at this time, especially in the Olympics at this time, especially in the Olympics at this time, every athlete before they would compete every athlete before they would compete every athlete before they would compete would have to stand before Zeus and would have to stand before Zeus and would have to stand before Zeus and swear that they had spent 10 months of swear that they had spent 10 months of swear that they had spent 10 months of intentional training preparing for that. intentional training preparing for that. intentional training preparing for that. >> So it wasn't enough just to show up and >> So it wasn't enough just to show up and >> So it wasn't enough just to show up and try. It wasn't enough simply to show up try. It wasn't enough simply to show up try. It wasn't enough simply to show up and say, "I'm going to try my hardest." and say, "I'm going to try my hardest." and say, "I'm going to try my hardest." You had to swear be like, "Hey, these You had to swear be like, "Hey, these You had to swear be like, "Hey, these games are about to be really intense." games are about to be really intense." games are about to be really intense." And you got to swear that you have been And you got to swear that you have been And you got to swear that you have been training because there's a difference training because there's a difference training because there's a difference between training and trying. It's a big between training and trying. It's a big between training and trying. It's a big difference. difference. difference. >> Um you and I right now could go try to >> Um you and I right now could go try to >> Um you and I right now could go try to run um an ultramarathon. run um an ultramarathon. run um an ultramarathon. >> You and I could right now go and try to >> You and I could right now go and try to >> You and I could right now go and try to bench press 500 lb. Not happen. Well, bench press 500 lb. Not happen. Well, bench press 500 lb. Not happen. Well, maybe you could do the 500. I I know maybe you could do the 500. I I know maybe you could do the 500. I I know you're a big You're a big fitness guy, you're a big You're a big fitness guy, you're a big You're a big fitness guy, but I'm just saying. I mean, we did see but I'm just saying. I mean, we did see but I'm just saying. I mean, we did see you in action one time in the arm you in action one time in the arm you in action one time in the arm wrestling competition.

wrestling competition. wrestling competition. >> Okay. You mean that one time somebody >> Okay. You mean that one time somebody >> Okay. You mean that one time somebody Okay, go ahead. Go [laughter] ahead. Okay, go ahead. Go [laughter] ahead. Okay, go ahead. Go [laughter] ahead. Are you saying speaking of not competing Are you saying speaking of not competing Are you saying speaking of not competing according to the rules? Is that is that according to the rules? Is that is that according to the rules? Is that is that the accusation that you just gave? the accusation that you just gave? the accusation that you just gave? >> No, I will not do that accusation. >> No, I will not do that accusation. >> No, I will not do that accusation. [laughter] I have heard some people say [laughter] I have heard some people say [laughter] I have heard some people say that. I will uh that. I will uh that. I will uh >> you let them be your defenders. You >> you let them be your defenders. You >> you let them be your defenders. You don't need to discern that. Someone may don't need to discern that. Someone may don't need to discern that. Someone may have got or may not have gotten a head have got or may not have gotten a head have got or may not have gotten a head start when you arm wrestled Pastor Josh. start when you arm wrestled Pastor Josh. start when you arm wrestled Pastor Josh. Anyways Anyways, so where was I at? I Anyways Anyways, so where was I at? I Anyways Anyways, so where was I at? I lost my whole train of thought right lost my whole train of thought right lost my whole train of thought right there. there. there. >> You you need to train. >> You you need to train. >> You you need to train. >> Yeah. You have to There's a difference >> Yeah. You have to There's a difference >> Yeah. You have to There's a difference between training and trying. And you and between training and trying. And you and between training and trying. And you and I could go try to do those things right I could go try to do those things right I could go try to do those things right now and we wouldn't succeed now and we wouldn't succeed now and we wouldn't succeed >> because we're not the kind of people who >> because we're not the kind of people who >> because we're not the kind of people who are able right now to run an are able right now to run an are able right now to run an ultramarathon or able to burn press 500 ultramarathon or able to burn press 500 ultramarathon or able to burn press 500 lb or pick any other kind of things. lb or pick any other kind of things. lb or pick any other kind of things. Instead, the idea of training is it is Instead, the idea of training is it is Instead, the idea of training is it is usually repeated rhythms that you're usually repeated rhythms that you're usually repeated rhythms that you're engaging in that enables you to become engaging in that enables you to become engaging in that enables you to become the kind of person who can do that. So the kind of person who can do that. So the kind of person who can do that. So right now, if you and I tried to bench right now, if you and I tried to bench right now, if you and I tried to bench press, let's just not say 500, that's press, let's just not say 500, that's press, let's just not say 500, that's silly. Like let's say 300 pounds, you silly. Like let's say 300 pounds, you silly. Like let's say 300 pounds, you may be able No, I can't. I could maybe may be able No, I can't. I could maybe may be able No, I can't. I could maybe get close to it in terms of one rep, but get close to it in terms of one rep, but get close to it in terms of one rep, but probably not. probably not. probably not. >> But hey, if I actually developed a plan >> But hey, if I actually developed a plan >> But hey, if I actually developed a plan and a regimen and some rhythms of, hey, and a regimen and some rhythms of, hey, and a regimen and some rhythms of, hey, I'm going to work out so many times a I'm going to work out so many times a I'm going to work out so many times a week and I'm going to have a certain week and I'm going to have a certain week and I'm going to have a certain strategy so over time I can gain strategy so over time I can gain strategy so over time I can gain strength, I'm eventually be going to strength, I'm eventually be going to strength, I'm eventually be going to become the kind of person who can do become the kind of person who can do become the kind of person who can do that here. Here's where I'm going with that here. Here's where I'm going with that here. Here's where I'm going with this. In my experience, the reason that this. In my experience, the reason that this. In my experience, the reason that so many Christians don't live the life so many Christians don't live the life so many Christians don't live the life that God wants for them and they want that God wants for them and they want that God wants for them and they want for themselves is because it's not for themselves is because it's not for themselves is because it's not because they're not trying. It's because because they're not trying. It's because because they're not trying. It's because they're not training.

they're not training. they're not training. >> That's good, man. So many Christians I >> That's good, man. So many Christians I >> That's good, man. So many Christians I know try to live that God the life that know try to live that God the life that know try to live that God the life that God wants for them, God wants for them, God wants for them, >> but they're not training to do it. >> but they're not training to do it. >> but they're not training to do it. What's the difference? And and really I What's the difference? And and really I What's the difference? And and really I believe it's all about the word that I believe it's all about the word that I believe it's all about the word that I said earlier. It's about rhythms. said earlier. It's about rhythms. said earlier. It's about rhythms. >> In my experience, the life that you want >> In my experience, the life that you want >> In my experience, the life that you want to live lives on the other side of to live lives on the other side of to live lives on the other side of rhythms and relationships you need to rhythms and relationships you need to rhythms and relationships you need to have. have. have. >> Rhythms and relationships. >> Rhythms and relationships. >> Rhythms and relationships. >> Yeah. Rhythms and relationships you need >> Yeah. Rhythms and relationships you need >> Yeah. Rhythms and relationships you need to have. That's good. That I believe to have. That's good. That I believe to have. That's good. That I believe that I'll say that again. The life you that I'll say that again. The life you that I'll say that again. The life you want to live lives on the other side of want to live lives on the other side of want to live lives on the other side of rhythms and relationships you need to rhythms and relationships you need to rhythms and relationships you need to have. Uh when we're talking about the have. Uh when we're talking about the have. Uh when we're talking about the Christian life, sometimes people call Christian life, sometimes people call Christian life, sometimes people call these the spiritual disciplines. Things these the spiritual disciplines. Things these the spiritual disciplines. Things like getting in the word of God in like getting in the word of God in like getting in the word of God in prayer, regularly, attending corporate prayer, regularly, attending corporate prayer, regularly, attending corporate worship. Relationships are what we worship. Relationships are what we worship. Relationships are what we talked about a week or two ago and talked about a week or two ago and talked about a week or two ago and Pastor Josh about the need for a band of Pastor Josh about the need for a band of Pastor Josh about the need for a band of brothers and sisters. Um in my brothers and sisters. Um in my brothers and sisters. Um in my experience, that that is the primary way experience, that that is the primary way experience, that that is the primary way that God uses to train us to become the that God uses to train us to become the that God uses to train us to become the men and women that we need to be. But men and women that we need to be. But men and women that we need to be. But just like an Olympic athlete, that's just like an Olympic athlete, that's just like an Olympic athlete, that's hard work. It takes commitment. It takes hard work. It takes commitment. It takes hard work. It takes commitment. It takes rhythms. It takes consistency. But the rhythms. It takes consistency. But the rhythms. It takes consistency. But the more you do it, the more you can become more you do it, the more you can become more you do it, the more you can become the kind of person God created and saved the kind of person God created and saved the kind of person God created and saved you to be. That's good. you to be. That's good. you to be. That's good. >> And so if I was going to give >> And so if I was going to give >> And so if I was going to give encouragement to our listeners is this, encouragement to our listeners is this, encouragement to our listeners is this, man. If if you simply been trying to man. If if you simply been trying to man. If if you simply been trying to live the Christian life, if you've been live the Christian life, if you've been live the Christian life, if you've been simply trying to do the right things, simply trying to do the right things, simply trying to do the right things, stop that. Instead, adopt the right stop that. Instead, adopt the right stop that. Instead, adopt the right rhythms in your life and get the right rhythms in your life and get the right rhythms in your life and get the right relationships in your life. And over relationships in your life. And over relationships in your life. And over time, it may not happen right away.

time, it may not happen right away. time, it may not happen right away. Again, it takes time, but it will Again, it takes time, but it will Again, it takes time, but it will happen. And one thing that we do here at happen. And one thing that we do here at happen. And one thing that we do here at Lake Point to help people is rooted. We Lake Point to help people is rooted. We Lake Point to help people is rooted. We do rooted. That's so one of the and in do rooted. That's so one of the and in do rooted. That's so one of the and in rooted we teach people the rhythms of a rooted we teach people the rhythms of a rooted we teach people the rhythms of a walk with God and we get them into a walk with God and we get them into a walk with God and we get them into a relationship with each other. So if man relationship with each other. So if man relationship with each other. So if man that's not something that people jumped that's not something that people jumped that's not something that people jumped in great thing to jump into in the in great thing to jump into in the in great thing to jump into in the future and if nothing else if you can't future and if nothing else if you can't future and if nothing else if you can't get it in time or maybe wherever you're get it in time or maybe wherever you're get it in time or maybe wherever you're listening to you don't have rooted man listening to you don't have rooted man listening to you don't have rooted man get into your church get into community get into your church get into community get into your church get into community and then also just ask some of the and then also just ask some of the and then also just ask some of the people there like hey how do I study the people there like hey how do I study the people there like hey how do I study the word how do I pray how do I mean how do word how do I pray how do I mean how do word how do I pray how do I mean how do I pray do those things and you'll become I pray do those things and you'll become I pray do those things and you'll become the kind of person that God created and the kind of person that God created and the kind of person that God created and saved you to be. Man, I love that. This saved you to be. Man, I love that. This saved you to be. Man, I love that. This is probably one of my favorite uh is probably one of my favorite uh is probably one of my favorite uh illustrations that or I guess imagery illustrations that or I guess imagery illustrations that or I guess imagery that pictures that Paul uses to that pictures that Paul uses to that pictures that Paul uses to encourage Timothy as a young disciple encourage Timothy as a young disciple encourage Timothy as a young disciple because uh some people think you know because uh some people think you know because uh some people think you know when you look at an athlete today, you when you look at an athlete today, you when you look at an athlete today, you know, obviously one you have to know, obviously one you have to know, obviously one you have to acknowledge an athlete lives a different acknowledge an athlete lives a different acknowledge an athlete lives a different lifestyle. Yes. lifestyle. Yes. lifestyle. Yes. >> Like when you look at especially at the >> Like when you look at especially at the >> Like when you look at especially at the top athlete that you you h you have to top athlete that you you h you have to top athlete that you you h you have to you can't live like a normal person when you can't live like a normal person when you can't live like a normal person when you're a top athlete. Like I was uh you're a top athlete. Like I was uh you're a top athlete. Like I was uh researching this week. So, LeBron James, researching this week. So, LeBron James, researching this week. So, LeBron James, some people report whom you hate. Some some people report whom you hate. Some some people report whom you hate. Some people people people >> I do not hate him.

>> I do not hate him. >> I do not hate him. >> Uh, okay. Hold on. We got to keep going. >> Uh, okay. Hold on. We got to keep going. >> Uh, okay. Hold on. We got to keep going. >> He's just He's just not the number one >> He's just He's just not the number one >> He's just He's just not the number one player of all time. That's fine. player of all time. That's fine. player of all time. That's fine. >> That's true. That's true. It's fine. >> That's true. That's true. It's fine. >> That's true. That's true. It's fine. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> So, LeBron James, whom Paul hates, uh, >> So, LeBron James, whom Paul hates, uh, >> So, LeBron James, whom Paul hates, uh, some reports say he spends he spends one some reports say he spends he spends one some reports say he spends he spends one to$ 1.5 million per year on his body. to$ 1.5 million per year on his body. to$ 1.5 million per year on his body. Now, I don't know if that's true. I Now, I don't know if that's true. I Now, I don't know if that's true. I don't know if somebody counted. I've don't know if somebody counted. I've don't know if somebody counted. I've heard the same kind of thing. heard the same kind of thing. heard the same kind of thing. >> The point is he I'm sure he spents >> The point is he I'm sure he spents >> The point is he I'm sure he spents something on his body. Uh, this is something on his body. Uh, this is something on his body. Uh, this is trainers, recovery, nutrition, and it trainers, recovery, nutrition, and it trainers, recovery, nutrition, and it makes sense because he's an athlete. makes sense because he's an athlete. makes sense because he's an athlete. >> Yes. And so he got to take care of >> Yes. And so he got to take care of >> Yes. And so he got to take care of himself and he's not just spending himself and he's not just spending himself and he's not just spending money. He's literally he's got a money. He's literally he's got a money. He's literally he's got a routine. He's got a rhythm. You have to routine. He's got a rhythm. You have to routine. He's got a rhythm. You have to spend time in the gym literally hours spend time in the gym literally hours spend time in the gym literally hours and hours and hours. There's a reason he and hours and hours. There's a reason he and hours and hours. There's a reason he is who he is for that reason. Um Kobe is who he is for that reason. Um Kobe is who he is for that reason. Um Kobe Bryant was famous for was one of my Bryant was famous for was one of my Bryant was famous for was one of my favorite all-time players. He was famous favorite all-time players. He was famous favorite all-time players. He was famous for starting his daily training at 4:00 for starting his daily training at 4:00 for starting his daily training at 4:00 a.m. every single morning. Love it. Tom a.m. every single morning. Love it. Tom a.m. every single morning. Love it. Tom Brady, whom you dislike as well, was Brady, whom you dislike as well, was Brady, whom you dislike as well, was known for his nutrition, like just being known for his nutrition, like just being known for his nutrition, like just being super strict hydration, conditioning, super strict hydration, conditioning, super strict hydration, conditioning, training. Michael Phelps, again, super training. Michael Phelps, again, super training. Michael Phelps, again, super known for like thousands and thousands known for like thousands and thousands known for like thousands and thousands of additional calories. He needs it. Uh, of additional calories. He needs it. Uh, of additional calories. He needs it. Uh, Michael Jordan, relentless in his goals Michael Jordan, relentless in his goals Michael Jordan, relentless in his goals and his focus. Um, obsessive focus. And and his focus. Um, obsessive focus. And and his focus. Um, obsessive focus. And so, again, these athletes do what 99.9% so, again, these athletes do what 99.9% so, again, these athletes do what 99.9% of normal people just won't do. And you of normal people just won't do. And you of normal people just won't do. And you know, in the Christian life, uh, and know, in the Christian life, uh, and know, in the Christian life, uh, and that's what that's what a Christian is that's what that's what a Christian is that's what that's what a Christian is called to do. That's not for super called to do. That's not for super called to do. That's not for super Christians. Nope. That's every disciple.

Christians. Nope. That's every disciple. Christians. Nope. That's every disciple. Hey, focus. Maintain intentionality in Hey, focus. Maintain intentionality in Hey, focus. Maintain intentionality in your rhythms. um you have a greater your rhythms. um you have a greater your rhythms. um you have a greater mission. These guys are not doing these mission. These guys are not doing these mission. These guys are not doing these things because they just kind of this is things because they just kind of this is things because they just kind of this is just what they do. This is like they just what they do. This is like they just what they do. This is like they have a greater mission. They endure have a greater mission. They endure have a greater mission. They endure pain. They they they push through. Um pain. They they they push through. Um pain. They they they push through. Um and you know some people today when it and you know some people today when it and you know some people today when it comes to the Christian life will be comes to the Christian life will be comes to the Christian life will be asking questions like asking questions like asking questions like >> well yeah is it a sin to do this? Is it >> well yeah is it a sin to do this? Is it >> well yeah is it a sin to do this? Is it you know do I have to go to church? Do I you know do I have to go to church? Do I you know do I have to go to church? Do I have to do this? And like and again um have to do this? And like and again um have to do this? And like and again um like when you look at the life of all like when you look at the life of all like when you look at the life of all these top athletes they're not asking these top athletes they're not asking these top athletes they're not asking well is it is it wrong for me to eat well is it is it wrong for me to eat well is it is it wrong for me to eat pizza every day? like they're not asking pizza every day? like they're not asking pizza every day? like they're not asking those questions. They're saying, "Man, I those questions. They're saying, "Man, I those questions. They're saying, "Man, I got a I got a greater mission." got a I got a greater mission." got a I got a greater mission." >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And so, I don't really care if it's >> And so, I don't really care if it's >> And so, I don't really care if it's wrong for me to eat pizza or not, man. wrong for me to eat pizza or not, man. wrong for me to eat pizza or not, man. What do I need to do to get to where I What do I need to do to get to where I What do I need to do to get to where I want to get to? want to get to? want to get to? >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> To get to the next level. And so, I >> To get to the next level. And so, I >> To get to the next level. And so, I think the same thing applies for the think the same thing applies for the think the same thing applies for the Christian life. Christian life. Christian life. >> That's so so good, man. So, again, >> That's so so good, man. So, again, >> That's so so good, man. So, again, that's just an example like just that's just an example like just that's just an example like just encourage people like what you and I encourage people like what you and I encourage people like what you and I just did was like we just slowed down, just did was like we just slowed down, just did was like we just slowed down, thought a little bit more on that. And thought a little bit more on that. And thought a little bit more on that. And so, like even like sometimes when people so, like even like sometimes when people so, like even like sometimes when people like tune in to us and or Pastor Josh, like tune in to us and or Pastor Josh, like tune in to us and or Pastor Josh, they be like, "Man, how did you get they be like, "Man, how did you get they be like, "Man, how did you get that?" And and I just want to lean in that?" And and I just want to lean in that?" And and I just want to lean in and tell people like do you know how and tell people like do you know how and tell people like do you know how like we get this stuff that we just like we get this stuff that we just like we get this stuff that we just talked about and any other things we do.

talked about and any other things we do. talked about and any other things we do. It goes back to the what you're It goes back to the what you're It goes back to the what you're encouraging people to do like man encouraging people to do like man encouraging people to do like man whether it's you talking about your whether it's you talking about your whether it's you talking about your Bible knowledge or man being better like Bible knowledge or man being better like Bible knowledge or man being better like better or deeper in prayer anything it better or deeper in prayer anything it better or deeper in prayer anything it takes time intentionality and discipline takes time intentionality and discipline takes time intentionality and discipline that like the people that other people that like the people that other people that like the people that other people look up to in the Christian life are are look up to in the Christian life are are look up to in the Christian life are are not people that are mass-produced in not people that are mass-produced in not people that are mass-produced in some factory somewhere and they just some factory somewhere and they just some factory somewhere and they just come out super spiritual whatever man. come out super spiritual whatever man. come out super spiritual whatever man. It just takes time and it takes It just takes time and it takes It just takes time and it takes intentionality. It takes a plan and it intentionality. It takes a plan and it intentionality. It takes a plan and it takes a discipline to stay consistent on takes a discipline to stay consistent on takes a discipline to stay consistent on it. And so, man, if you're out there and it. And so, man, if you're out there and it. And so, man, if you're out there and you're wanting to grow deeper in Christ you're wanting to grow deeper in Christ you're wanting to grow deeper in Christ and deepen your relationship with him, and deepen your relationship with him, and deepen your relationship with him, just adopt these things we've been just adopt these things we've been just adopt these things we've been talking about. And you won't get there talking about. And you won't get there talking about. And you won't get there in one day, but you will get there one in one day, but you will get there one in one day, but you will get there one day. day. day. >> That's where the farmer illustration >> That's where the farmer illustration >> That's where the farmer illustration comes in as well, because again, it's comes in as well, because again, it's comes in as well, because again, it's this idea of like, hey, it's this idea of like, hey, it's this idea of like, hey, it's faithfulness during seasons, even when faithfulness during seasons, even when faithfulness during seasons, even when you don't seem to see results. you don't seem to see results. you don't seem to see results. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> It's a a farmer knows, hey, there is a >> It's a a farmer knows, hey, there is a >> It's a a farmer knows, hey, there is a season to plant and there's a season for season to plant and there's a season for season to plant and there's a season for harvest. And so this is again a great harvest. And so this is again a great harvest. And so this is again a great encouragement. The we we live in a encouragement. The we we live in a encouragement. The we we live in a culture that wants everything now. Y culture that wants everything now. Y culture that wants everything now. Y >> we we want quick results, quick hacks. >> we we want quick results, quick hacks. >> we we want quick results, quick hacks. Uh and that's just not that's just not Uh and that's just not that's just not Uh and that's just not that's just not how it works.

how it works. how it works. >> That's right. It's easy to forget that >> That's right. It's easy to forget that >> That's right. It's easy to forget that when you're reading and then we can we when you're reading and then we can we when you're reading and then we can we can by the way we can now think on can by the way we can now think on can by the way we can now think on another another verse here in a minute another another verse here in a minute another another verse here in a minute into into a very fun topic that we'll into into a very fun topic that we'll into into a very fun topic that we'll get into that we previewed earlier. But get into that we previewed earlier. But get into that we previewed earlier. But before we get there is it's sometimes before we get there is it's sometimes before we get there is it's sometimes easy to forget like with the Apostle easy to forget like with the Apostle easy to forget like with the Apostle Paul, he literally like when we're Paul, he literally like when we're Paul, he literally like when we're reading his letters, it's been decades reading his letters, it's been decades reading his letters, it's been decades since he first came to know Christ. since he first came to know Christ. since he first came to know Christ. >> And so we're seeing the fruit of decades >> And so we're seeing the fruit of decades >> And so we're seeing the fruit of decades of labor, yes, in his missionary of labor, yes, in his missionary of labor, yes, in his missionary efforts, but also just laboring and efforts, but also just laboring and efforts, but also just laboring and getting to know his God better. And one getting to know his God better. And one getting to know his God better. And one of my favorite things, I'll go and give of my favorite things, I'll go and give of my favorite things, I'll go and give a spoiler before we get there in second a spoiler before we get there in second a spoiler before we get there in second Timothy. One of my favorite things in Timothy. One of my favorite things in Timothy. One of my favorite things in Second Timothy is at the end when he's Second Timothy is at the end when he's Second Timothy is at the end when he's asking for these people to visit him. We asking for these people to visit him. We asking for these people to visit him. We talked about some of this last week talked about some of this last week talked about some of this last week about different people to come and see about different people to come and see about different people to come and see him. He says, "Hey, bring me a cloak him. He says, "Hey, bring me a cloak him. He says, "Hey, bring me a cloak because he's cold." But he also says, because he's cold." But he also says, because he's cold." But he also says, "Bring me scrolls and above all the "Bring me scrolls and above all the "Bring me scrolls and above all the parchments." And one of the big theories parchments." And one of the big theories parchments." And one of the big theories that is out there of what he's asking that is out there of what he's asking that is out there of what he's asking for are pieces of scripture, little for are pieces of scripture, little for are pieces of scripture, little fragments or maybe a little leaflet of fragments or maybe a little leaflet of fragments or maybe a little leaflet of scripture. Which is interesting because scripture. Which is interesting because scripture. Which is interesting because he's written now his last letter. Second he's written now his last letter. Second he's written now his last letter. Second Timothy is his last letter he's ever Timothy is his last letter he's ever Timothy is his last letter he's ever going to write. And so his ministry is going to write. And so his ministry is going to write. And so his ministry is in in a sense done. He says, "I'm being in in a sense done. He says, "I'm being in in a sense done. He says, "I'm being poured out like a drink offering." Like poured out like a drink offering." Like poured out like a drink offering." Like he knows he's going to die. like why are he knows he's going to die. like why are he knows he's going to die. like why are you why do you want scripture? And it you why do you want scripture? And it you why do you want scripture? And it goes back to something he said all the goes back to something he said all the goes back to something he said all the way back in Philippians, which he at one way back in Philippians, which he at one way back in Philippians, which he at one point said,"I want to know Christ." And point said,"I want to know Christ." And point said,"I want to know Christ." And when he said that in Philippians, he'd when he said that in Philippians, he'd when he said that in Philippians, he'd already known him again for over 20 or already known him again for over 20 or already known him again for over 20 or 25 years.

25 years. 25 years. >> So part knew Christ and that more than >> So part knew Christ and that more than >> So part knew Christ and that more than almost any of us ever will. Probably any almost any of us ever will. Probably any almost any of us ever will. Probably any of more than any of us ever will in this of more than any of us ever will in this of more than any of us ever will in this lifetime. He knew him. But he wanted lifetime. He knew him. But he wanted lifetime. He knew him. But he wanted more. And I think that was his heart more. And I think that was his heart more. And I think that was his heart till his dying day. Till his dying days till his dying day. Till his dying days till his dying day. Till his dying days like I want to encounter God in like I want to encounter God in like I want to encounter God in scripture as much as I can. So bring me scripture as much as I can. So bring me scripture as much as I can. So bring me those into my dying breath. I want to those into my dying breath. I want to those into my dying breath. I want to encounter God in his word. And so again, encounter God in his word. And so again, encounter God in his word. And so again, just to encourage people like, man, when just to encourage people like, man, when just to encourage people like, man, when we read Paul, the way he became what we we read Paul, the way he became what we we read Paul, the way he became what we read is because of that consistent read is because of that consistent read is because of that consistent faithfulness of showing up and want to faithfulness of showing up and want to faithfulness of showing up and want to experience more that God had for him. experience more that God had for him. experience more that God had for him. >> Well, so this is so helpful to me even >> Well, so this is so helpful to me even >> Well, so this is so helpful to me even like, man, I I got to remind myself like, man, I I got to remind myself like, man, I I got to remind myself constantly, hey, and if you're listening constantly, hey, and if you're listening constantly, hey, and if you're listening right now, this is for you as well. Hey, right now, this is for you as well. Hey, right now, this is for you as well. Hey, soldier. soldier. soldier. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> You focus on the mission. You're under >> You focus on the mission. You're under >> You focus on the mission. You're under the authority of a commander the authority of a commander the authority of a commander >> and we're in the middle of a war. Uh so >> and we're in the middle of a war. Uh so >> and we're in the middle of a war. Uh so don't get distracted. don't get distracted. don't get distracted. >> Athlete, yep. Hey, you have been called >> Athlete, yep. Hey, you have been called >> Athlete, yep. Hey, you have been called to live a life of discipline. So, don't to live a life of discipline. So, don't to live a life of discipline. So, don't cut corners. Keep going. Keep running. cut corners. Keep going. Keep running. cut corners. Keep going. Keep running. It's painful. Yep. That's part of It's painful. Yep. That's part of It's painful. Yep. That's part of growth. Keep keep running. And then growth. Keep keep running. And then growth. Keep keep running. And then number three, farmer. Uh work hard. Keep number three, farmer. Uh work hard. Keep number three, farmer. Uh work hard. Keep keep at it. Even when it seems like keep at it. Even when it seems like keep at it. Even when it seems like you're not seeing results, keep being you're not seeing results, keep being you're not seeing results, keep being faithful. Don't quit before the harvest.

faithful. Don't quit before the harvest. faithful. Don't quit before the harvest. The harvest is coming. That's uh The harvest is coming. That's uh The harvest is coming. That's uh Galatians chapter 6 verse 9. Uh which by Galatians chapter 6 verse 9. Uh which by Galatians chapter 6 verse 9. Uh which by the way we don't have time for this but the way we don't have time for this but the way we don't have time for this but I this verse for me is just like man I this verse for me is just like man I this verse for me is just like man seasons where I feel like I'm not seeing seasons where I feel like I'm not seeing seasons where I feel like I'm not seeing results and God you called me to do this results and God you called me to do this results and God you called me to do this and yeah you know what do you this is and yeah you know what do you this is and yeah you know what do you this is embarrassing and I'm not seeing embarrassing and I'm not seeing embarrassing and I'm not seeing anything. Uh hey let us not become weary anything. Uh hey let us not become weary anything. Uh hey let us not become weary in doing good for at the proper time we in doing good for at the proper time we in doing good for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give will reap a harvest if we do not give will reap a harvest if we do not give up. up. up. >> It's good >> It's good >> It's good >> and so man that's a great reminder. >> and so man that's a great reminder. >> and so man that's a great reminder. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> All right you ready to get to the real >> All right you ready to get to the real >> All right you ready to get to the real fun one for today? fun one for today? fun one for today? >> Oh yeah man. So I got the Bible here. >> Oh yeah man. So I got the Bible here. >> Oh yeah man. So I got the Bible here. I'm going to read it and then we're I'm going to read it and then we're I'm going to read it and then we're going to jump from that passage to uh going to jump from that passage to uh going to jump from that passage to uh talk about predestination. You want to talk about predestination. You want to talk about predestination. You want to do that? Yeah, because again just do that? Yeah, because again just do that? Yeah, because again just setting the table for people is Paul setting the table for people is Paul setting the table for people is Paul said in here man think on these things said in here man think on these things said in here man think on these things and even that's by the way a lot of and even that's by the way a lot of and even that's by the way a lot of people use this verse to to talk about people use this verse to to talk about people use this verse to to talk about Christian meditation is it's eastern Christian meditation is it's eastern Christian meditation is it's eastern meditation the idea of like more of like meditation the idea of like more of like meditation the idea of like more of like a lot of people think about like saying a lot of people think about like saying a lot of people think about like saying or something like that that's about or something like that that's about or something like that that's about emptying your mind emptying your mind emptying your mind >> that's what you do every day >> that's what you do every day >> that's what you do every day >> no I do not it's about emptying your >> no I do not it's about emptying your >> no I do not it's about emptying your mind Christian meditation is about mind Christian meditation is about mind Christian meditation is about filling your mind and specifically about filling your mind and specifically about filling your mind and specifically about filling your mind with God's word so filling your mind with God's word so filling your mind with God's word so he's saying here hey keep thinking of he's saying here hey keep thinking of he's saying here hey keep thinking of what I said like bring it to mind and what I said like bring it to mind and what I said like bring it to mind and think about it so in our passage we just think about it so in our passage we just think about it so in our passage we just spent some um thinking about those three spent some um thinking about those three spent some um thinking about those three analogies. But there's another thing in analogies. But there's another thing in analogies. But there's another thing in this text that a lot of people do think this text that a lot of people do think this text that a lot of people do think about and it can trip people up. But you about and it can trip people up. But you about and it can trip people up. But you read that verse for us.

read that verse for us. read that verse for us. >> Or it can bless them. >> Or it can bless them. >> Or it can bless them. >> Or it can bless them if they do it the >> Or it can bless them if they do it the >> Or it can bless them if they do it the right way. Exactly. And our goal is to right way. Exactly. And our goal is to right way. Exactly. And our goal is to help you do it do it the right way and help you do it do it the right way and help you do it do it the right way and read it the right way. That's right. read it the right way. That's right. read it the right way. That's right. >> And understand it the right way. And so >> And understand it the right way. And so >> And understand it the right way. And so 2 Timothy 2 8-10. Uh this is Paul again 2 Timothy 2 8-10. Uh this is Paul again 2 Timothy 2 8-10. Uh this is Paul again speaking to young Timothy, young speaking to young Timothy, young speaking to young Timothy, young disciple. Hey, remember Jesus Christ disciple. Hey, remember Jesus Christ disciple. Hey, remember Jesus Christ risen from the dead, the offspring of risen from the dead, the offspring of risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel for David, as preached in my gospel for David, as preached in my gospel for which I am suffering, bound with chains which I am suffering, bound with chains which I am suffering, bound with chains as a criminal, but the word of God is as a criminal, but the word of God is as a criminal, but the word of God is not bound. Therefore, I endure not bound. Therefore, I endure not bound. Therefore, I endure everything. Listen, for the sake of the everything. Listen, for the sake of the everything. Listen, for the sake of the elect, elect, elect, >> that they may also obtain the salvation >> that they may also obtain the salvation >> that they may also obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal that is in Christ Jesus with eternal that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. Okay, so we're going to talk glory. Okay, so we're going to talk glory. Okay, so we're going to talk about predestination, uh, election, about predestination, uh, election, about predestination, uh, election, Calvinism, and Armenianism. Let me give Calvinism, and Armenianism. Let me give Calvinism, and Armenianism. Let me give you a quick story, Paul. Well, hey, you a quick story, Paul. Well, hey, you a quick story, Paul. Well, hey, Lifer Nation. If you're ready to go Lifer Nation. If you're ready to go Lifer Nation. If you're ready to go deeper in your faith and build strong deeper in your faith and build strong deeper in your faith and build strong biblical community, Rooted is your next biblical community, Rooted is your next biblical community, Rooted is your next step. Rooted is our 10-week disciplehip step. Rooted is our 10-week disciplehip step. Rooted is our 10-week disciplehip experience designed to help you grow in experience designed to help you grow in experience designed to help you grow in your relationship with God, understand your relationship with God, understand your relationship with God, understand your purpose, and build meaningful your purpose, and build meaningful your purpose, and build meaningful relationships with other believers. And relationships with other believers. And relationships with other believers. And so, here's something that you need to so, here's something that you need to so, here's something that you need to know. Rooted is a in-person experience know. Rooted is a in-person experience know. Rooted is a in-person experience only. It's not available online because only. It's not available online because only. It's not available online because so much of what makes Rooted powerful so much of what makes Rooted powerful so much of what makes Rooted powerful [music] happens when you're sitting [music] happens when you're sitting [music] happens when you're sitting around a table having conversations, around a table having conversations, around a table having conversations, praying together, and growing alongside praying together, and growing alongside praying together, and growing alongside others. So, if you live in the DFW area, others. So, if you live in the DFW area, others. So, if you live in the DFW area, Dallas [music] Fort Worth area, we'd Dallas [music] Fort Worth area, we'd Dallas [music] Fort Worth area, we'd love for you to come be a part of our love for you to come be a part of our love for you to come be a part of our rooted experience at one of our Lakeoint rooted experience at one of our Lakeoint rooted experience at one of our Lakeoint campuses. And so, if you are ready to campuses. And so, if you are ready to campuses. And so, if you are ready to take that next step, just text the word take that next step, just text the word take that next step, just text the word rooted to 2041 rooted to 2041 rooted to 2041 to learn more and get connected. And

to learn more and get connected. And to learn more and get connected. And now, let's go back to the podcast. So I now, let's go back to the podcast. So I now, let's go back to the podcast. So I grew up in Assemblies of God in the grew up in Assemblies of God in the grew up in Assemblies of God in the church. Uh did you know that? church. Uh did you know that? church. Uh did you know that? >> I thought you So you might you've got >> I thought you So you might you've got >> I thought you So you might you've got more of a diverse background than you. more of a diverse background than you. more of a diverse background than you. You you always make fun. So I thought You you always make fun. So I thought You you always make fun. So I thought you were Catholic you were Catholic you were Catholic >> initially. >> initially. >> initially. >> Yeah. You were born and raised like bab. >> Yeah. You were born and raised like bab. >> Yeah. You were born and raised like bab. Yeah. Baptized a baby. So Catholically Yeah. Baptized a baby. So Catholically Yeah. Baptized a baby. So Catholically and then and then and then >> eventually long term I ended up >> eventually long term I ended up >> eventually long term I ended up >> full on Pentecostal. >> full on Pentecostal. >> full on Pentecostal. >> Full on Assemblies of God. Uh >> Full on Assemblies of God. Uh >> Full on Assemblies of God. Uh charismatic. charismatic. charismatic. >> You've had a journey, man. >> You've had a journey, man. >> You've had a journey, man. >> Bro, I do. >> Bro, I do. >> Bro, I do. >> That's amazing. [laughter] But so so I >> That's amazing. [laughter] But so so I >> That's amazing. [laughter] But so so I you know and this is where honestly this you know and this is where honestly this you know and this is where honestly this is where I I was serving in church as a is where I I was serving in church as a is where I I was serving in church as a young high school middle school high young high school middle school high young high school middle school high schooler uh plugged in a small group and schooler uh plugged in a small group and schooler uh plugged in a small group and God used you know the Assemblies of God God used you know the Assemblies of God God used you know the Assemblies of God to to shape me and and bless me in many to to shape me and and bless me in many to to shape me and and bless me in many ways. Um I graduated high school, moved ways. Um I graduated high school, moved ways. Um I graduated high school, moved to Michigan and I went to Calvin to Michigan and I went to Calvin to Michigan and I went to Calvin University out of all places out of the University out of all places out of the University out of all places out of the providence of God in the sovereignty of providence of God in the sovereignty of providence of God in the sovereignty of God. God. God. >> What does the where does the Calvin come >> What does the where does the Calvin come >> What does the where does the Calvin come from? literally named after John Kelvin. from? literally named after John Kelvin. from? literally named after John Kelvin. So, uh went from Assemblies of God, So, uh went from Assemblies of God, So, uh went from Assemblies of God, Pentecostal Church to a very very very Pentecostal Church to a very very very Pentecostal Church to a very very very reformed area and university. And to be reformed area and university. And to be reformed area and university. And to be honest, I never heard of this idea of honest, I never heard of this idea of honest, I never heard of this idea of predestination taught this way. And part predestination taught this way. And part predestination taught this way. And part of me when I re, you know, started of me when I re, you know, started of me when I re, you know, started reading theology and and learning reading theology and and learning reading theology and and learning theology in in reformed in the reformed theology in in reformed in the reformed theology in in reformed in the reformed area, um part of me I was challenged area, um part of me I was challenged area, um part of me I was challenged because I'm like, what? Like, I've never because I'm like, what? Like, I've never because I'm like, what? Like, I've never heard this before. Um, I'm I I have all heard this before. Um, I'm I I have all heard this before. Um, I'm I I have all these questions. And [snorts] then these questions. And [snorts] then these questions. And [snorts] then another part of me, bro, I was another part of me, bro, I was another part of me, bro, I was intrigued.

intrigued. intrigued. >> Huh? >> Huh? >> Huh? >> I was like, I'm I'm drawn to this and >> I was like, I'm I'm drawn to this and >> I was like, I'm I'm drawn to this and I'm passionate. I'm hungry to learn what I'm passionate. I'm hungry to learn what I'm passionate. I'm hungry to learn what does that mean? What is what is Paul does that mean? What is what is Paul does that mean? What is what is Paul saying? When you look at every single saying? When you look at every single saying? When you look at every single part of the Bible, which is, by the way, part of the Bible, which is, by the way, part of the Bible, which is, by the way, everywhere in the Bible, it's not just everywhere in the Bible, it's not just everywhere in the Bible, it's not just one particular spot. This whole idea of one particular spot. This whole idea of one particular spot. This whole idea of election, predestination, um, it's it's election, predestination, um, it's it's election, predestination, um, it's it's all over being chosen, it's all over the all over being chosen, it's all over the all over being chosen, it's all over the Bible. So, here here's what I want to Bible. So, here here's what I want to Bible. So, here here's what I want to do. Um, I want to talk about this. Uh, do. Um, I want to talk about this. Uh, do. Um, I want to talk about this. Uh, it's interesting in scripture. Here's it's interesting in scripture. Here's it's interesting in scripture. Here's what you see. Paul uses the term what you see. Paul uses the term what you see. Paul uses the term election, predestination, chosen by God election, predestination, chosen by God election, predestination, chosen by God before the foundation of the world before the foundation of the world before the foundation of the world around 23 times in the in his letters in around 23 times in the in his letters in around 23 times in the in his letters in the New Testament alone. [snorts] the New Testament alone. [snorts] the New Testament alone. [snorts] >> Jesus constantly says, "I chose you. I >> Jesus constantly says, "I chose you. I >> Jesus constantly says, "I chose you. I chose you. I chose you." Around 10 times chose you. I chose you." Around 10 times chose you. I chose you." Around 10 times and around seven to eight times, he and around seven to eight times, he and around seven to eight times, he talks about those who have been quote talks about those who have been quote talks about those who have been quote elect or chosen. So combined, Jesus elect or chosen. So combined, Jesus elect or chosen. So combined, Jesus speaks about this around 15 times. So speaks about this around 15 times. So speaks about this around 15 times. So it's a Bible word. That's a good word it's a Bible word. That's a good word it's a Bible word. That's a good word that this is not a Calvinist word. It's that this is not a Calvinist word. It's that this is not a Calvinist word. It's about By the way, I'm going to start about By the way, I'm going to start about By the way, I'm going to start calling you a Roman calling you a Roman calling you a Roman >> Pentecanist. Oh boy. >> Pentecanist. Oh boy. >> Pentecanist. Oh boy. >> Uh just because of your [laughter] very >> Uh just because of your [laughter] very >> Uh just because of your [laughter] very reformed Roman reformed Roman reformed Roman >> Pentac. You're just you got a very >> Pentac. You're just you got a very >> Pentac. You're just you got a very unique you got a very unique story. But unique you got a very unique story. But unique you got a very unique story. But but I love it. I love all the different but I love it. I love all the different but I love it. I love all the different like experiences you've had. But but like experiences you've had. But but like experiences you've had. But but yeah, to your point, you know, even like yeah, to your point, you know, even like yeah, to your point, you know, even like we'll get into this here maybe even in a we'll get into this here maybe even in a we'll get into this here maybe even in a little bit because maybe be good to slow little bit because maybe be good to slow little bit because maybe be good to slow down in a minute and and kind of set the down in a minute and and kind of set the down in a minute and and kind of set the table of like what does this mean when table of like what does this mean when table of like what does this mean when it says the elect and what does that all it says the elect and what does that all it says the elect and what does that all how do we all get into?

how do we all get into? how do we all get into? Part of I just want to go say why we're Part of I just want to go say why we're Part of I just want to go say why we're talking about this is because it's in talking about this is because it's in talking about this is because it's in the Bible. That's right. Is because man, the Bible. That's right. Is because man, the Bible. That's right. Is because man, if we are people who love God's word and if we are people who love God's word and if we are people who love God's word and we read God's word, we're going to have we read God's word, we're going to have we read God's word, we're going to have to wrestle within with what's in God's to wrestle within with what's in God's to wrestle within with what's in God's word. And let me also just exp help word. And let me also just exp help word. And let me also just exp help people understand like right now there's people understand like right now there's people understand like right now there's some things that are in the Bible that some things that are in the Bible that some things that are in the Bible that are tough to understand. And there's are tough to understand. And there's are tough to understand. And there's things like that are like consequences things like that are like consequences things like that are like consequences of the Bible theologically that are of the Bible theologically that are of the Bible theologically that are tough to get our head around whether tough to get our head around whether tough to get our head around whether it's this or things like the Trinity or it's this or things like the Trinity or it's this or things like the Trinity or other stuff. I think the flinch of some other stuff. I think the flinch of some other stuff. I think the flinch of some people is, well, I don't really get that people is, well, I don't really get that people is, well, I don't really get that and I don't really care and I can't and I don't really care and I can't and I don't really care and I can't fully know it, so I'm not going to worry fully know it, so I'm not going to worry fully know it, so I'm not going to worry about it all or study about it all. about it all or study about it all. about it all or study about it all. Okay, imagine if that worked with your Okay, imagine if that worked with your Okay, imagine if that worked with your spouse. Like for me, imagine if I said, spouse. Like for me, imagine if I said, spouse. Like for me, imagine if I said, I'll ask you, Carlos, am I ever going to I'll ask you, Carlos, am I ever going to I'll ask you, Carlos, am I ever going to fully understand my wife? fully understand my wife? fully understand my wife? >> Never. >> Never. >> Never. >> Heck no. [laughter] >> Heck no. [laughter] >> Heck no. [laughter] >> Heck no. I will never understand her. By >> Heck no. I will never understand her. By >> Heck no. I will never understand her. By the way, it's true of her with me, too. the way, it's true of her with me, too. the way, it's true of her with me, too. We try. I We try. We try. That's We try. I We try. We try. That's We try. I We try. We try. That's important. I'm going to get to that. So, important. I'm going to get to that. So, important. I'm going to get to that. So, like I'm never gonna fully understand like I'm never gonna fully understand like I'm never gonna fully understand her. But what if I went to Amy and said, her. But what if I went to Amy and said, her. But what if I went to Amy and said, "You know what, babe? There's parts of "You know what, babe? There's parts of "You know what, babe? There's parts of you I just don't get, and I don't think you I just don't get, and I don't think you I just don't get, and I don't think I'm ever going to get, so I'm just not I'm ever going to get, so I'm just not I'm ever going to get, so I'm just not even going to try to understand you."

even going to try to understand you." even going to try to understand you." >> How do you think that would go for me? >> How do you think that would go for me? >> How do you think that would go for me? >> Not great. >> Not great. >> Not great. >> And yet, that's the approach we take >> And yet, that's the approach we take >> And yet, that's the approach we take with God. with God. with God. >> When we find things in his word that are >> When we find things in his word that are >> When we find things in his word that are hard to understand or maybe hard to hard to understand or maybe hard to hard to understand or maybe hard to swallow where it's like, ah, a lot of us swallow where it's like, ah, a lot of us swallow where it's like, ah, a lot of us are flinches. Like, I just forget about are flinches. Like, I just forget about are flinches. Like, I just forget about it. It's not important. I'm like, man, it. It's not important. I'm like, man, it. It's not important. I'm like, man, like no, like God wants to be known for like no, like God wants to be known for like no, like God wants to be known for who he is. He wants to be he wants his who he is. He wants to be he wants his who he is. He wants to be he wants his world to be known for how he's actually world to be known for how he's actually world to be known for how he's actually created to function for us as well. And created to function for us as well. And created to function for us as well. And so, man, it matters. It matters. Now, so, man, it matters. It matters. Now, so, man, it matters. It matters. Now, are there going to be some things we are there going to be some things we are there going to be some things we completely understand? No. Because we're completely understand? No. Because we're completely understand? No. Because we're not God. But while we may not be able to not God. But while we may not be able to not God. But while we may not be able to understand God fully, we can understand understand God fully, we can understand understand God fully, we can understand him truly. And so, because of that, we him truly. And so, because of that, we him truly. And so, because of that, we should dive into things like this. Now, should dive into things like this. Now, should dive into things like this. Now, it may be good for me to kind of slow it may be good for me to kind of slow it may be good for me to kind of slow down even explain to people like what down even explain to people like what down even explain to people like what this word elect means, maybe what the this word elect means, maybe what the this word elect means, maybe what the debate is over. debate is over. debate is over. >> Please do a couple views on it as well. >> Please do a couple views on it as well. >> Please do a couple views on it as well. >> Yeah. And then we can talk about a >> Yeah. And then we can talk about a >> Yeah. And then we can talk about a little bit more of again like why does little bit more of again like why does little bit more of again like why does this matter? Because we because it does this matter? Because we because it does this matter? Because we because it does matter in addition to what I just laid matter in addition to what I just laid matter in addition to what I just laid out. It it does matter for a few other out. It it does matter for a few other out. It it does matter for a few other reasons. Yeah. So the word elect, the reasons. Yeah. So the word elect, the reasons. Yeah. So the word elect, the word elect literally just means chosen. word elect literally just means chosen. word elect literally just means chosen. The the original word in the Greek The the original word in the Greek The the original word in the Greek language that that Paul was writing in language that that Paul was writing in language that that Paul was writing in literally just means chosen. So it says literally just means chosen. So it says literally just means chosen. So it says I um endure everything for the sake of I um endure everything for the sake of I um endure everything for the sake of the chosen.

the chosen. the chosen. >> Now what does that mean? >> Now what does that mean? >> Now what does that mean? >> Because like that can throw people off. >> Because like that can throw people off. >> Because like that can throw people off. It's like wait a second like It's like wait a second like It's like wait a second like >> God chose me. Does that mean I not have >> God chose me. Does that mean I not have >> God chose me. Does that mean I not have a choice? Or like I thought like I do a choice? Or like I thought like I do a choice? Or like I thought like I do have choices. I do have free will. Like have choices. I do have free will. Like have choices. I do have free will. Like how does this all go together? And yeah, how does this all go together? And yeah, how does this all go together? And yeah, >> there's there's a bunch of different >> there's there's a bunch of different >> there's there's a bunch of different viewpoints, but really it comes down to viewpoints, but really it comes down to viewpoints, but really it comes down to two primary ones. Um, what's called two primary ones. Um, what's called two primary ones. Um, what's called unconditional election or unconditional unconditional election or unconditional unconditional election or unconditional choosing and then conditional election. choosing and then conditional election. choosing and then conditional election. Conditional choosing. So, we actually Conditional choosing. So, we actually Conditional choosing. So, we actually got nice little visual up on the screen got nice little visual up on the screen got nice little visual up on the screen to kind of really juxtapose these. There to kind of really juxtapose these. There to kind of really juxtapose these. There are a lot of other theological issues are a lot of other theological issues are a lot of other theological issues and a lot of other things that we and a lot of other things that we and a lot of other things that we probably even get into today. I'm going probably even get into today. I'm going probably even get into today. I'm going to try to keep this as simple as to try to keep this as simple as to try to keep this as simple as possible to help people understand the possible to help people understand the possible to help people understand the difference between these two viewpoints. difference between these two viewpoints. difference between these two viewpoints. So, you have what's called unconditional So, you have what's called unconditional So, you have what's called unconditional election. It's often associated with election. It's often associated with election. It's often associated with Calvinism. There is a theologian um and Calvinism. There is a theologian um and Calvinism. There is a theologian um and a pastor called John a pastor called John a pastor called John >> Calvin >> Calvin >> Calvin >> and it was in the time of the Protestant >> and it was in the time of the Protestant >> and it was in the time of the Protestant Reformation and this is often associated Reformation and this is often associated Reformation and this is often associated with him. The main idea is that I choose with him. The main idea is that I choose with him. The main idea is that I choose God because God first chose me. God because God first chose me. God because God first chose me. >> God first chose me before the foundation >> God first chose me before the foundation >> God first chose me before the foundation of the world. Before anything was of the world. Before anything was of the world. Before anything was created, he chose that I would have created, he chose that I would have created, he chose that I would have faith in him and I would be saved. And faith in him and I would be saved. And faith in him and I would be saved. And because he chose me, eventually I did because he chose me, eventually I did because he chose me, eventually I did come to faith in him. And not because he come to faith in him. And not because he come to faith in him. And not because he saw anything in me, good or bad. Not saw anything in me, good or bad. Not saw anything in me, good or bad. Not because he saw that I would choose him, because he saw that I would choose him, because he saw that I would choose him, but he actually is the one who created but he actually is the one who created but he actually is the one who created faith in me because he chose me.

faith in me because he chose me. faith in me because he chose me. >> So you're saying God chose you to be >> So you're saying God chose you to be >> So you're saying God chose you to be saved. saved. saved. >> Exactly. God chose me to be saved. >> Exactly. God chose me to be saved. >> Exactly. God chose me to be saved. Exactly. So I choose God because God Exactly. So I choose God because God Exactly. So I choose God because God first chose me. You get this in passages first chose me. You get this in passages first chose me. You get this in passages like Ephesians 1:4-5. The idea of God like Ephesians 1:4-5. The idea of God like Ephesians 1:4-5. The idea of God chose us before the foundation of the chose us before the foundation of the chose us before the foundation of the world. John 6:44, Jesus, again, it's not world. John 6:44, Jesus, again, it's not world. John 6:44, Jesus, again, it's not just the Apostle Paul and it's not Junk. just the Apostle Paul and it's not Junk. just the Apostle Paul and it's not Junk. Jesus says, "No one can come to me Jesus says, "No one can come to me Jesus says, "No one can come to me unless the father draws him." unless the father draws him." unless the father draws him." >> Um, then you get Romans 9, which we'll >> Um, then you get Romans 9, which we'll >> Um, then you get Romans 9, which we'll dive into later in this, but all of dive into later in this, but all of dive into later in this, but all of chapter 9 is a really big deal for this chapter 9 is a really big deal for this chapter 9 is a really big deal for this view. So again, there's unconditional view. So again, there's unconditional view. So again, there's unconditional election or unconditional choosing, election or unconditional choosing, election or unconditional choosing, meaning that God does not choose us meaning that God does not choose us meaning that God does not choose us based on anything he sees in us. That's based on anything he sees in us. That's based on anything he sees in us. That's why it's unconditional. That's right. why it's unconditional. That's right. why it's unconditional. That's right. >> He simply chooses us and because of >> He simply chooses us and because of >> He simply chooses us and because of that, we then choose him. Okay? Then that, we then choose him. Okay? Then that, we then choose him. Okay? Then there's conditional election often there's conditional election often there's conditional election often associated with Armenianism. There's a associated with Armenianism. There's a associated with Armenianism. There's a guy named Jacobus Arminius who in guy named Jacobus Arminius who in guy named Jacobus Arminius who in response to Calvin and Calvinist views. response to Calvin and Calvinist views. response to Calvin and Calvinist views. He disagrees with them and he says no no He disagrees with them and he says no no He disagrees with them and he says no no no like God doesn't predestin those who no like God doesn't predestin those who no like God doesn't predestin those who would believe and those who would not. would believe and those who would not. would believe and those who would not. He doesn't choose people and then they He doesn't choose people and then they He doesn't choose people and then they choose him. Instead he looks ahead and choose him. Instead he looks ahead and choose him. Instead he looks ahead and he sees because God has fornowledge. He he sees because God has fornowledge. He he sees because God has fornowledge. He sees what they're going to choose.

sees what they're going to choose. sees what they're going to choose. >> And so then God chooses me because I >> And so then God chooses me because I >> And so then God chooses me because I choose him. choose him. choose him. >> Okay? He would see he God looks ahead >> Okay? He would see he God looks ahead >> Okay? He would see he God looks ahead and because he's outside of time. So and because he's outside of time. So and because he's outside of time. So it's not even I honestly accurate to say it's not even I honestly accurate to say it's not even I honestly accurate to say he looks ahead because he just simply is he looks ahead because he just simply is he looks ahead because he just simply is outside of time. But still for for the outside of time. But still for for the outside of time. But still for for the lack of better words because we're lack of better words because we're lack of better words because we're humans. He looks and he looks ahead humans. He looks and he looks ahead humans. He looks and he looks ahead >> and he sees who's going to choose him >> and he sees who's going to choose him >> and he sees who's going to choose him and who's going to reject him and those and who's going to reject him and those and who's going to reject him and those that choose him he then chooses them. that choose him he then chooses them. that choose him he then chooses them. >> Okay? >> Okay? >> Okay? >> So instead whereas unconditional >> So instead whereas unconditional >> So instead whereas unconditional election I choose God because God first election I choose God because God first election I choose God because God first chose me and conditional election is chose me and conditional election is chose me and conditional election is conditional because he chooses you based conditional because he chooses you based conditional because he chooses you based on the condition of whether or not on the condition of whether or not on the condition of whether or not you're going to choose him. also known you're going to choose him. also known you're going to choose him. also known as fornowledge. as fornowledge. as fornowledge. >> For knowledge. Exactly. He knew before >> For knowledge. Exactly. He knew before >> For knowledge. Exactly. He knew before you were going to choose him, therefore you were going to choose him, therefore you were going to choose him, therefore he chose you. he chose you. he chose you. >> Exactly. So for the sake of words and >> Exactly. So for the sake of words and >> Exactly. So for the sake of words and kind of having similar stuff, I kind of kind of having similar stuff, I kind of kind of having similar stuff, I kind of put if God chooses me because I choose put if God chooses me because I choose put if God chooses me because I choose him. And Arminian would say, well, yes, him. And Arminian would say, well, yes, him. And Arminian would say, well, yes, but it's because he looked ahead. He but it's because he looked ahead. He but it's because he looked ahead. He looked ahead. So in a sense, he still looked ahead. So in a sense, he still looked ahead. So in a sense, he still did it before I existed, but still he did it before I existed, but still he did it before I existed, but still he did unconditional faith. They would did unconditional faith. They would did unconditional faith. They would point to first Peter 1 1-2 where it point to first Peter 1 1-2 where it point to first Peter 1 1-2 where it talks about how God does predestin but talks about how God does predestin but talks about how God does predestin but based it says on fornowledge. Similar based it says on fornowledge. Similar based it says on fornowledge. Similar Romans, Romans, Romans, >> it says the word fornowledge.

>> it says the word fornowledge. >> it says the word fornowledge. >> Yeah. Romans 8:29 is that where you kind >> Yeah. Romans 8:29 is that where you kind >> Yeah. Romans 8:29 is that where you kind of have what's called often the golden of have what's called often the golden of have what's called often the golden chain for those God forneew he also chain for those God forneew he also chain for those God forneew he also predestined. So in Armenian say hey see predestined. So in Armenian say hey see predestined. So in Armenian say hey see fornowledge comes first and then fornowledge comes first and then fornowledge comes first and then predestination also a big one and this predestination also a big one and this predestination also a big one and this sounds simple but it is actually a sounds simple but it is actually a sounds simple but it is actually a really big deal and I think I think it's really big deal and I think I think it's really big deal and I think I think it's helpful if you're out there and you're a helpful if you're out there and you're a helpful if you're out there and you're a Calvinist to remember this like John Calvinist to remember this like John Calvinist to remember this like John 3:16 says for God so loved the world 3:16 says for God so loved the world 3:16 says for God so loved the world that he gave his only son. So for a that he gave his only son. So for a that he gave his only son. So for a person who's more of a conditional person who's more of a conditional person who's more of a conditional election person, they're like, "Hey, it election person, they're like, "Hey, it election person, they're like, "Hey, it it just seems unloving that God would it just seems unloving that God would it just seems unloving that God would choose who's going to go to heaven, but choose who's going to go to heaven, but choose who's going to go to heaven, but because of that, he wouldn't then choose because of that, he wouldn't then choose because of that, he wouldn't then choose everyone. That just seems unloving for everyone. That just seems unloving for everyone. That just seems unloving for God to be that way." And so a big thing God to be that way." And so a big thing God to be that way." And so a big thing for these people is God's character for these people is God's character for these people is God's character because it just doesn't seem a loving because it just doesn't seem a loving because it just doesn't seem a loving God would do unconditional election. So God would do unconditional election. So God would do unconditional election. So those are the difference between the two those are the difference between the two those are the difference between the two views. There's a bunch of other things views. There's a bunch of other things views. There's a bunch of other things that we got to get into, but does that that we got to get into, but does that that we got to get into, but does that does that make sense, Carlos? does that make sense, Carlos? does that make sense, Carlos? >> It makes sense. And uh so I come from >> It makes sense. And uh so I come from >> It makes sense. And uh so I come from the I was raised in the tradition of the I was raised in the tradition of the I was raised in the tradition of conditional election in the Assemblies conditional election in the Assemblies conditional election in the Assemblies of [clears throat] God obviously. So of [clears throat] God obviously. So of [clears throat] God obviously. So again it's this idea that's that's what again it's this idea that's that's what again it's this idea that's that's what I grew up uh being taught from scripture I grew up uh being taught from scripture I grew up uh being taught from scripture and then you know obviously when I came and then you know obviously when I came and then you know obviously when I came here in in here I mean in the US uh and here in in here I mean in the US uh and here in in here I mean in the US uh and learned reformed theology I was taught learned reformed theology I was taught learned reformed theology I was taught unconditional or I started reading about unconditional or I started reading about unconditional or I started reading about unconditional election.

unconditional election. unconditional election. >> So where are you now? >> So where are you now? >> So where are you now? >> Uh I am uh I'm a Bible guy. >> Uh I am uh I'm a Bible guy. >> Uh I am uh I'm a Bible guy. >> Oh what a what a what a cough. What a >> Oh what a what a what a cough. What a >> Oh what a what a what a cough. What a joke. joke. joke. >> No it's not it's not. No, I uh I >> No it's not it's not. No, I uh I >> No it's not it's not. No, I uh I definitely lean unconditional election. definitely lean unconditional election. definitely lean unconditional election. >> I love So you lean so you're not like >> I love So you lean so you're not like >> I love So you lean so you're not like because we'll get into this in a little because we'll get into this in a little because we'll get into this in a little bit. There's there's also what people bit. There's there's also what people bit. There's there's also what people call the five points of Calvinism and call the five points of Calvinism and call the five points of Calvinism and you're like my guess is you're like, you're like my guess is you're like, you're like my guess is you're like, "Dude, I don't even like the term "Dude, I don't even like the term "Dude, I don't even like the term Calvinist." You're like, "I don't even Calvinist." You're like, "I don't even Calvinist." You're like, "I don't even want to do that." You're like, "Hey, I want to do that." You're like, "Hey, I want to do that." You're like, "Hey, I just Yeah. just Yeah. just Yeah. >> No, I don't lean. I I am unconditional >> No, I don't lean. I I am unconditional >> No, I don't lean. I I am unconditional election." Yeah. election." Yeah. election." Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you if you have to give me those two >> If you if you have to give me those two >> If you if you have to give me those two terms, that's what I that's what I am. terms, that's what I that's what I am. terms, that's what I that's what I am. >> But you probably don't prefer the label >> But you probably don't prefer the label >> But you probably don't prefer the label is what you're saying. is what you're saying. is what you're saying. >> I don't I don't love these labels >> I don't I don't love these labels >> I don't I don't love these labels because uh because uh because uh >> it makes it sound like you're committed >> it makes it sound like you're committed >> it makes it sound like you're committed to a system instead of the Bible. You're to a system instead of the Bible. You're to a system instead of the Bible. You're putting on the Calvinist jersey or the putting on the Calvinist jersey or the putting on the Calvinist jersey or the Armenian jersey and I don't want to do Armenian jersey and I don't want to do Armenian jersey and I don't want to do that. that. that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But you you do. So, uh, so Paul, what >> But you you do. So, uh, so Paul, what >> But you you do. So, uh, so Paul, what tell me why are you a Calvinist? tell me why are you a Calvinist? tell me why are you a Calvinist? >> Why do you assume? >> Why do you assume? >> Why do you assume? >> Uh, I'm not assuming. I know it. >> Uh, I'm not assuming. I know it. >> Uh, I'm not assuming. I know it. [laughter] I'm just messing with you. [laughter] I'm just messing with you. [laughter] I'm just messing with you. >> Oh, goodness. Well, hey, um, sandwich. >> Oh, goodness. Well, hey, um, sandwich. >> Oh, goodness. Well, hey, um, sandwich. So, like, you know, So, like, you know, So, like, you know, >> you're a Calvinist. >> you're a Calvinist. >> you're a Calvinist. >> Yes. Well, if you put a label on >> Yes. Well, if you put a label on >> Yes. Well, if you put a label on Christianity. Okay, go ahead.

Christianity. Okay, go ahead. Christianity. Okay, go ahead. >> Oh, wow. Shots fired. Okay, we're >> Oh, wow. Shots fired. Okay, we're >> Oh, wow. Shots fired. Okay, we're already we're already going there. Uh, already we're already going there. Uh, already we're already going there. Uh, no man. And again, when people are no man. And again, when people are no man. And again, when people are listening to this, Carlos and I love listening to this, Carlos and I love listening to this, Carlos and I love each other. We we agree beforehand. each other. We we agree beforehand. each other. We we agree beforehand. We're going to do a little bit more We're going to do a little bit more We're going to do a little bit more banter partly because what we're trying banter partly because what we're trying banter partly because what we're trying to model, by the way, I'll go ahead and to model, by the way, I'll go ahead and to model, by the way, I'll go ahead and say it is we're trying to model, even say it is we're trying to model, even say it is we're trying to model, even though he's gonna play devil's a bit of though he's gonna play devil's a bit of though he's gonna play devil's a bit of how we can talk about this. how we can talk about this. how we can talk about this. >> They're calling our minions a devil. >> They're calling our minions a devil. >> They're calling our minions a devil. >> No, I'm not. I'm saying you're going to >> No, I'm not. I'm saying you're going to >> No, I'm not. I'm saying you're going to play devil's. Okay. See, look at this. play devil's. Okay. See, look at this. play devil's. Okay. See, look at this. This is what I'm talking about. Anyways, This is what I'm talking about. Anyways, This is what I'm talking about. Anyways, now uh we're doing this to show like, now uh we're doing this to show like, now uh we're doing this to show like, hey, we can disagree, but it doesn't hey, we can disagree, but it doesn't hey, we can disagree, but it doesn't mean we have to divide and it doesn't mean we have to divide and it doesn't mean we have to divide and it doesn't mean we have to dislike each other. like mean we have to dislike each other. like mean we have to dislike each other. like we can we're trying to model more loving we can we're trying to model more loving we can we're trying to model more loving gracefilled like conversations around gracefilled like conversations around gracefilled like conversations around this but yeah um yes I am but here's this but yeah um yes I am but here's this but yeah um yes I am but here's what I would tell people um a little bit what I would tell people um a little bit what I would tell people um a little bit of a story on me and how I came to this of a story on me and how I came to this of a story on me and how I came to this like I went back and forth for years like I went back and forth for years like I went back and forth for years >> so I would be more in what's often >> so I would be more in what's often >> so I would be more in what's often called the Armenian camp or the idea of called the Armenian camp or the idea of called the Armenian camp or the idea of conditional election the idea often conditional election the idea often conditional election the idea often people say oh free will like God chose people say oh free will like God chose people say oh free will like God chose me but only because he saw that I would me but only because he saw that I would me but only because he saw that I would choose him I was in that camp and then I choose him I was in that camp and then I choose him I was in that camp and then I was over in the other camp for a season was over in the other camp for a season was over in the other camp for a season then back and forth and it was because I then back and forth and it was because I then back and forth and it was because I would see good scripture for both sides would see good scripture for both sides would see good scripture for both sides We'll get into this. And I would hear We'll get into this. And I would hear We'll get into this. And I would hear good arguments for both sides that were good arguments for both sides that were good arguments for both sides that were hard for both sides to respond to. Um, hard for both sides to respond to. Um, hard for both sides to respond to. Um, experientially I would see both. And experientially I would see both. And experientially I would see both. And what I mean by that is is like I would what I mean by that is is like I would what I mean by that is is like I would hear people who were very big into free hear people who were very big into free hear people who were very big into free will and Arminion and the idea of like, will and Arminion and the idea of like, will and Arminion and the idea of like, you know, God chooses us because we you know, God chooses us because we you know, God chooses us because we choose him. But then when I would hear choose him. But then when I would hear choose him. But then when I would hear them pray, they would pray things like, them pray, they would pray things like, them pray, they would pray things like, God, would you just change this person's God, would you just change this person's God, would you just change this person's heart and save them?

heart and save them? heart and save them? >> I'm like, whoa, wait a second. He can't >> I'm like, whoa, wait a second. He can't >> I'm like, whoa, wait a second. He can't pray that. Like, you know, pray that. Like, you know, pray that. Like, you know, >> we do though. Like, >> we do though. Like, >> we do though. Like, >> well, we do. Yeah. >> well, we do. Yeah. >> well, we do. Yeah. >> Everybody does. >> Everybody does. >> Everybody does. >> Everybody. And so I went back and forth >> Everybody. And so I went back and forth >> Everybody. And so I went back and forth and so probably in my mid20s I became and so probably in my mid20s I became and so probably in my mid20s I became pretty firm in what I and what I pretty firm in what I and what I pretty firm in what I and what I believe. Very firm in what I believe. believe. Very firm in what I believe. believe. Very firm in what I believe. That being said, what I love about the That being said, what I love about the That being said, what I love about the journey God had me on is it it has journey God had me on is it it has journey God had me on is it it has filled me with a lot of grace for both filled me with a lot of grace for both filled me with a lot of grace for both sides. Um a lot of understanding where sides. Um a lot of understanding where sides. Um a lot of understanding where both sides are coming from. And so for both sides are coming from. And so for both sides are coming from. And so for me, while I do have very strong me, while I do have very strong me, while I do have very strong convictions, I also understand where convictions, I also understand where convictions, I also understand where people who disagree with me are coming people who disagree with me are coming people who disagree with me are coming from. from. from. >> And if anything, I'm just become a very >> And if anything, I'm just become a very >> And if anything, I'm just become a very big advocate of, hey, these are things big advocate of, hey, these are things big advocate of, hey, these are things that we can passionately disagree on. It that we can passionately disagree on. It that we can passionately disagree on. It shouldn't divide us because there's shouldn't divide us because there's shouldn't divide us because there's things that we can both agree on and we things that we can both agree on and we things that we can both agree on and we should both do together which we'll get should both do together which we'll get should both do together which we'll get here in just a moment. I know one thing here in just a moment. I know one thing here in just a moment. I know one thing that people were wondering though when that people were wondering though when that people were wondering though when they hear that and they hear both of our they hear that and they hear both of our they hear that and they hear both of our perspectives, they're like, "Well, wait perspectives, they're like, "Well, wait perspectives, they're like, "Well, wait a second. Does that mean that this is a second. Does that mean that this is a second. Does that mean that this is Lake Point's like official stance?" No, Lake Point's like official stance?" No, Lake Point's like official stance?" No, >> it's not. We do not have an official >> it's not. We do not have an official >> it's not. We do not have an official stance on this as a church. We've got stance on this as a church. We've got stance on this as a church. We've got people on our staff and on our people on our staff and on our people on our staff and on our leadership that are more on the leadership that are more on the leadership that are more on the unconditional election side. We've got unconditional election side. We've got unconditional election side. We've got some that are in the conditional some that are in the conditional some that are in the conditional election side, some that are Calvinists, election side, some that are Calvinists, election side, some that are Calvinists, some that are minions. Man, that's one some that are minions. Man, that's one some that are minions. Man, that's one of the beautiful things I love here is of the beautiful things I love here is of the beautiful things I love here is again, we can lock arms and lock hands again, we can lock arms and lock hands again, we can lock arms and lock hands and say, "Hey, we're going to unite and say, "Hey, we're going to unite and say, "Hey, we're going to unite around the things that should unite us."

around the things that should unite us." around the things that should unite us." Yeah. And we're going to pursue those Yeah. And we're going to pursue those Yeah. And we're going to pursue those things together. And hey, these are things together. And hey, these are things together. And hey, these are things that we can have great things that we can have great things that we can have great conversations about, but they don't have conversations about, but they don't have conversations about, but they don't have to distract us or divide us. to distract us or divide us. to distract us or divide us. >> Now, if somebody's listening right now >> Now, if somebody's listening right now >> Now, if somebody's listening right now and be like, "Oh, man. Is this like one and be like, "Oh, man. Is this like one and be like, "Oh, man. Is this like one of those like super geeky theological, of those like super geeky theological, of those like super geeky theological, you know, kind of conversations?" Well, you know, kind of conversations?" Well, you know, kind of conversations?" Well, here's here's why it matters. here's here's why it matters. here's here's why it matters. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> U multiple reasons. Um one, uh we >> U multiple reasons. Um one, uh we >> U multiple reasons. Um one, uh we because the Bible matters. That's why. because the Bible matters. That's why. because the Bible matters. That's why. So, and this is a matter we're talking So, and this is a matter we're talking So, and this is a matter we're talking about salvation. We're trying to we we about salvation. We're trying to we we about salvation. We're trying to we we have a faith that is seeking have a faith that is seeking have a faith that is seeking understanding of our the God that we understanding of our the God that we understanding of our the God that we love love love >> and so it matters because it's in the >> and so it matters because it's in the >> and so it matters because it's in the Bible and that's why it's important. Uh Bible and that's why it's important. Uh Bible and that's why it's important. Uh two, it also there's implications to two, it also there's implications to two, it also there's implications to what you believe about it about who God what you believe about it about who God what you believe about it about who God is. Yeah. And his character and how he is. Yeah. And his character and how he is. Yeah. And his character and how he operates and when you look at scripture operates and when you look at scripture operates and when you look at scripture and you understand how he he is and how and you understand how he he is and how and you understand how he he is and how he operates and what his character is, he operates and what his character is, he operates and what his character is, it it just helps you get to know who God it it just helps you get to know who God it it just helps you get to know who God is. And so that's another reason. Um, is. And so that's another reason. Um, is. And so that's another reason. Um, and then there's other implications to and then there's other implications to and then there's other implications to honestly like how you live your life. honestly like how you live your life. honestly like how you live your life. >> Oh, yeah. And this can really trip >> Oh, yeah. And this can really trip >> Oh, yeah. And this can really trip people up. Like I had I had an intern people up. Like I had I had an intern people up. Like I had I had an intern when I was working at one church who when I was working at one church who when I was working at one church who came to me and he had slept in days came to me and he had slept in days came to me and he had slept in days >> because because again these are Bible >> because because again these are Bible >> because because again these are Bible verses and he was reading the Bible and verses and he was reading the Bible and verses and he was reading the Bible and he encountered some of these verses he encountered some of these verses he encountered some of these verses we've already even been talking about.

we've already even been talking about. we've already even been talking about. And most of his family weren't saved if And most of his family weren't saved if And most of his family weren't saved if not all of them. And he was just like, not all of them. And he was just like, not all of them. And he was just like, Paul, like if if the predestination Paul, like if if the predestination Paul, like if if the predestination thing is true, then they could be like thing is true, then they could be like thing is true, then they could be like destined for hell and there's nothing I destined for hell and there's nothing I destined for hell and there's nothing I can do. But hey, if it's if the can do. But hey, if it's if the can do. But hey, if it's if the Armenianism thing is true, then it's Armenianism thing is true, then it's Armenianism thing is true, then it's like, man, I'm not doing enough and I'm like, man, I'm not doing enough and I'm like, man, I'm not doing enough and I'm not saying enough and then it's all on not saying enough and then it's all on not saying enough and then it's all on me. And he literally lost sleep. So part me. And he literally lost sleep. So part me. And he literally lost sleep. So part of what we want to help people do in of what we want to help people do in of what we want to help people do in this is because this really can trip this is because this really can trip this is because this really can trip people up is we want to help people people up is we want to help people people up is we want to help people think through it. And then also we want think through it. And then also we want think through it. And then also we want to help people because this can also be to help people because this can also be to help people because this can also be really divisive. That's another reason really divisive. That's another reason really divisive. That's another reason we want to talk about this. We want to we want to talk about this. We want to we want to talk about this. We want to try to help model in this conversation try to help model in this conversation try to help model in this conversation how you can disagree, but at the same how you can disagree, but at the same how you can disagree, but at the same time, you don't have to let it divide. time, you don't have to let it divide. time, you don't have to let it divide. There you go. There you go. There you go. >> You can disagree, but not divide. >> You can disagree, but not divide. >> You can disagree, but not divide. >> So, let me do this. We're Bible people. >> So, let me do this. We're Bible people. >> So, let me do this. We're Bible people. Yep. We want to read the Bible. Yep. Yep. We want to read the Bible. Yep. Yep. We want to read the Bible. Yep. >> So, this is why Paul, if I'm honest, I >> So, this is why Paul, if I'm honest, I >> So, this is why Paul, if I'm honest, I don't love some of these labels like don't love some of these labels like don't love some of these labels like Calvinism, Armenianism, again, because Calvinism, Armenianism, again, because Calvinism, Armenianism, again, because how about we just read the Bible and how about we just read the Bible and how about we just read the Bible and then we accept what the Bible says. then we accept what the Bible says. then we accept what the Bible says. >> Good. Uh, let me share six things every >> Good. Uh, let me share six things every >> Good. Uh, let me share six things every Christian should believe about Christian should believe about Christian should believe about predestination because you brought it up predestination because you brought it up predestination because you brought it up and it's one of those, you know, people and it's one of those, you know, people and it's one of those, you know, people get a little nervous around this word. get a little nervous around this word. get a little nervous around this word. Um, number one, and by the way, feel Um, number one, and by the way, feel Um, number one, and by the way, feel free to add whatever. Uh, and and by the free to add whatever. Uh, and and by the free to add whatever. Uh, and and by the way, I have a a meme for each one of way, I have a a meme for each one of way, I have a a meme for each one of these points, almost all of them. So, these points, almost all of them. So, these points, almost all of them. So, uh, let me just give the the point and uh, let me just give the the point and uh, let me just give the the point and then we'll show the meme. And if you're then we'll show the meme. And if you're then we'll show the meme. And if you're on uh just audio only, you can jump on on uh just audio only, you can jump on on uh just audio only, you can jump on YouTube and Spotify and check it out.

YouTube and Spotify and check it out. YouTube and Spotify and check it out. So, here's the first point about So, here's the first point about So, here's the first point about predestination that every Christian predestination that every Christian predestination that every Christian should believe. Number one, it's in the should believe. Number one, it's in the should believe. Number one, it's in the Bible. [laughter] Bible. [laughter] Bible. [laughter] >> U, >> U, >> U, >> no way around it. There's no way around >> no way around it. There's no way around >> no way around it. There's no way around it. Let me show you this first meme to it. Let me show you this first meme to it. Let me show you this first meme to illustrate that. It says uh when an illustrate that. It says uh when an illustrate that. It says uh when an Armenian sees the word predestined in Armenian sees the word predestined in Armenian sees the word predestined in scripture and he goes like uh don't be scripture and he goes like uh don't be scripture and he goes like uh don't be that guy. that guy. that guy. >> Thanks Patrick Stewart. >> Thanks Patrick Stewart. >> Thanks Patrick Stewart. >> Don't be that guy. So predestination pre >> Don't be that guy. So predestination pre >> Don't be that guy. So predestination pre it just means decide or determine it just means decide or determine it just means decide or determine beforehand. Destination means like an beforehand. Destination means like an beforehand. Destination means like an outcome. So predestination means outcome. So predestination means outcome. So predestination means basically someone has predecided or basically someone has predecided or basically someone has predecided or determined a specific outcome. Um you determined a specific outcome. Um you determined a specific outcome. Um you can't ignore that the Bible uses this can't ignore that the Bible uses this can't ignore that the Bible uses this word. This is a Bible word. Yeah. Uh word. This is a Bible word. Yeah. Uh word. This is a Bible word. Yeah. Uh again, Paul uses the word over and over again, Paul uses the word over and over again, Paul uses the word over and over again around 23 times. Jesus uses the again around 23 times. Jesus uses the again around 23 times. Jesus uses the word uh he says I chose you like 10 word uh he says I chose you like 10 word uh he says I chose you like 10 times. Then he says he talks about the times. Then he says he talks about the times. Then he says he talks about the elect or the chosen like uh seven to elect or the chosen like uh seven to elect or the chosen like uh seven to eight more times. So a total of 15 eight more times. So a total of 15 eight more times. So a total of 15 times. These are Bible words. Romans uh times. These are Bible words. Romans uh times. These are Bible words. Romans uh sorry Ephesians chapter 1. You mentioned sorry Ephesians chapter 1. You mentioned sorry Ephesians chapter 1. You mentioned it Paul even as he chose us in him. it Paul even as he chose us in him. it Paul even as he chose us in him. Listen when before the foundation of the Listen when before the foundation of the Listen when before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and world that we should be holy and world that we should be holy and blameless. You've been chosen for this.

blameless. You've been chosen for this. blameless. You've been chosen for this. before him in love. He predestined us before him in love. He predestined us before him in love. He predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through for adoption to himself as sons through for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ according to the purpose of Jesus Christ according to the purpose of Jesus Christ according to the purpose of his will. You cannot say, "Oh, well, I his will. You cannot say, "Oh, well, I his will. You cannot say, "Oh, well, I don't believe in predestination." You don't believe in predestination." You don't believe in predestination." You you can't say that because it's you can't say that because it's you can't say that because it's literally right there in the book. literally right there in the book. literally right there in the book. >> Yeah. And by the way, in that Ephesians >> Yeah. And by the way, in that Ephesians >> Yeah. And by the way, in that Ephesians 1, which just such a beautiful passage, 1, which just such a beautiful passage, 1, which just such a beautiful passage, people should go and read it. Talks people should go and read it. Talks people should go and read it. Talks about the benefits of salvation, about the benefits of salvation, about the benefits of salvation, >> election, the idea of God chose, that >> election, the idea of God chose, that >> election, the idea of God chose, that word is he elected before in predestin. word is he elected before in predestin. word is he elected before in predestin. >> It's a good thing in that passage. >> It's a good thing in that passage. >> It's a good thing in that passage. >> It's a it's a it's a good thing. It's >> It's a it's a it's a good thing. It's >> It's a it's a it's a good thing. It's not a bad thing. The whole point is is not a bad thing. The whole point is is not a bad thing. The whole point is is like he's saying, "Hey, because God did like he's saying, "Hey, because God did like he's saying, "Hey, because God did this, this is all that's available to this, this is all that's available to this, this is all that's available to you. It's a good thing." you. It's a good thing." you. It's a good thing." >> And that's the point, and we'll talk >> And that's the point, and we'll talk >> And that's the point, and we'll talk about it in a second. Any any thoughts about it in a second. Any any thoughts about it in a second. Any any thoughts on that? No. No. Keep going. Okay. So, on that? No. No. Keep going. Okay. So, on that? No. No. Keep going. Okay. So, number two, number two, number two, >> um, it does not eliminate human >> um, it does not eliminate human >> um, it does not eliminate human responsibility. responsibility. responsibility. >> Absolutely not. >> Absolutely not. >> Absolutely not. >> I got a meme. Election uh, is mentioned >> I got a meme. Election uh, is mentioned >> I got a meme. Election uh, is mentioned 30 times in the Bible. Oh, it must mean 30 times in the Bible. Oh, it must mean 30 times in the Bible. Oh, it must mean free will. free will. free will. >> I think that's actually Jacob Arminius. >> I think that's actually Jacob Arminius. >> I think that's actually Jacob Arminius. I'm pretty sure pretty sure that's it. I'm pretty sure pretty sure that's it. I'm pretty sure pretty sure that's it. So predestination, what we just said is So predestination, what we just said is So predestination, what we just said is true, does not eliminate human true, does not eliminate human true, does not eliminate human responsibility. So here's the point.

responsibility. So here's the point. responsibility. So here's the point. >> Scripture teaches two things at the same >> Scripture teaches two things at the same >> Scripture teaches two things at the same time. time. time. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> On one hand, it teaches, hey, whoever >> On one hand, it teaches, hey, whoever >> On one hand, it teaches, hey, whoever believes in him will be saved. Whoever believes in him will be saved. Whoever believes in him will be saved. Whoever puts his faith in Jesus Christ, you will puts his faith in Jesus Christ, you will puts his faith in Jesus Christ, you will be faith. You will be saved. If anybody be faith. You will be saved. If anybody be faith. You will be saved. If anybody runs towards Jesus, you find salvation. runs towards Jesus, you find salvation. runs towards Jesus, you find salvation. Yep. Yep. Yep. >> And so anybody may come to Christ. >> And so anybody may come to Christ. >> And so anybody may come to Christ. That's the invitation. On the other That's the invitation. On the other That's the invitation. On the other hand, it also says that God's hand, it also says that God's hand, it also says that God's sovereignty uh chooses and predestined sovereignty uh chooses and predestined sovereignty uh chooses and predestined us according to his will. So that's also us according to his will. So that's also us according to his will. So that's also true. Yeah. true. Yeah. true. Yeah. >> So what a lot of people will do is >> So what a lot of people will do is >> So what a lot of people will do is they'll pin this verse against that they'll pin this verse against that they'll pin this verse against that verse and they say, "Well, this verse verse and they say, "Well, this verse verse and they say, "Well, this verse says this and then the other verse says says this and then the other verse says says this and then the other verse says that." Listen, we don't we don't do that." Listen, we don't we don't do that." Listen, we don't we don't do that. We don't grab one verse in the that. We don't grab one verse in the that. We don't grab one verse in the Bible and then pin it against the other. Bible and then pin it against the other. Bible and then pin it against the other. We don't grab Paul and pin it against We don't grab Paul and pin it against We don't grab Paul and pin it against James. Uh we don't again we don't grab James. Uh we don't again we don't grab James. Uh we don't again we don't grab Jesus's words and pin it against you. We Jesus's words and pin it against you. We Jesus's words and pin it against you. We just don't do that. Um we we receive the just don't do that. Um we we receive the just don't do that. Um we we receive the word of God as is. And so again, it word of God as is. And so again, it word of God as is. And so again, it there is uh the Bible teaches that we there is uh the Bible teaches that we there is uh the Bible teaches that we are responsible for our decisions. are responsible for our decisions. are responsible for our decisions. >> That's right. And and this I'd say >> That's right. And and this I'd say >> That's right. And and this I'd say either side that people land on in this either side that people land on in this either side that people land on in this both now and then after they listen to both now and then after they listen to both now and then after they listen to us, you have to hold these intentions on us, you have to hold these intentions on us, you have to hold these intentions on whatever side you land on. God is fully whatever side you land on. God is fully whatever side you land on. God is fully sovereign and we are fully responsible.

sovereign and we are fully responsible. sovereign and we are fully responsible. And we'll get to this because really the And we'll get to this because really the And we'll get to this because really the next point, some of that's a mystery, next point, some of that's a mystery, next point, some of that's a mystery, but I want to get I want to show people but I want to get I want to show people but I want to get I want to show people that this isn't just pitting Jesus's that this isn't just pitting Jesus's that this isn't just pitting Jesus's words against Paul. You see this idea words against Paul. You see this idea words against Paul. You see this idea side by side in scripture. So I actually side by side in scripture. So I actually side by side in scripture. So I actually have some examples to show people have some examples to show people have some examples to show people literally that you see these side by literally that you see these side by literally that you see these side by side and it doesn't give an explanation side and it doesn't give an explanation side and it doesn't give an explanation of how it works. We just see that it is of how it works. We just see that it is of how it works. We just see that it is there and you cannot deny it. So let's there and you cannot deny it. So let's there and you cannot deny it. So let's go to some of the verses that we see in go to some of the verses that we see in go to some of the verses that we see in terms of God's sovereignty and human terms of God's sovereignty and human terms of God's sovereignty and human responsibility. So if you're watching responsibility. So if you're watching responsibility. So if you're watching this on YouTube or any of the video this on YouTube or any of the video this on YouTube or any of the video place we have videos. Um the things that place we have videos. Um the things that place we have videos. Um the things that are in yellow are the places where you are in yellow are the places where you are in yellow are the places where you see more of an emphasis on human see more of an emphasis on human see more of an emphasis on human responsibility on human choice. The responsibility on human choice. The responsibility on human choice. The things that are in red are we see that things that are in red are we see that things that are in red are we see that it is God's sovereignty and his choice. it is God's sovereignty and his choice. it is God's sovereignty and his choice. So, this is from the book of Genesis. So, this is from the book of Genesis. So, this is from the book of Genesis. Joseph said to his brothers, so his Joseph said to his brothers, so his Joseph said to his brothers, so his brothers um were mad at Joseph when he brothers um were mad at Joseph when he brothers um were mad at Joseph when he was younger because he was kind of a was younger because he was kind of a was younger because he was kind of a cocky dude. And then they sell him into cocky dude. And then they sell him into cocky dude. And then they sell him into slavery. He spends over the next decade slavery. He spends over the next decade slavery. He spends over the next decade of his life in slavery and in prison. of his life in slavery and in prison. of his life in slavery and in prison. >> I'm just going to go on the record and >> I'm just going to go on the record and >> I'm just going to go on the record and say that's probably a sinful thing that say that's probably a sinful thing that say that's probably a sinful thing that they did they did they did >> to to human traffic someone and they >> to to human traffic someone and they >> to to human traffic someone and they spend not. Okay. It's a sin. It's a sin. spend not. Okay. It's a sin. It's a sin. spend not. Okay. It's a sin. It's a sin. Okay. So, so but then they have this Okay. So, so but then they have this Okay. So, so but then they have this confrontation at the end of Genesis and confrontation at the end of Genesis and confrontation at the end of Genesis and here's what happens. Joseph said to his here's what happens. Joseph said to his here's what happens. Joseph said to his brothers, "Come near to me, please." And brothers, "Come near to me, please." And brothers, "Come near to me, please." And they came near and he said, "I am your they came near and he said, "I am your they came near and he said, "I am your brother Joseph." Now we go to yellow.

brother Joseph." Now we go to yellow. brother Joseph." Now we go to yellow. Whom you sold into Egypt. They decided Whom you sold into Egypt. They decided Whom you sold into Egypt. They decided to do it. They're responsible for it. to do it. They're responsible for it. to do it. They're responsible for it. And now do not be distressed or angry And now do not be distressed or angry And now do not be distressed or angry with yourselves because you sold me with yourselves because you sold me with yourselves because you sold me here. Now we go into red. For God sent here. Now we go into red. For God sent here. Now we go into red. For God sent me before you to preserve life. I've me before you to preserve life. I've me before you to preserve life. I've actually got another slide so we can see actually got another slide so we can see actually got another slide so we can see more of it. And God sent me before you more of it. And God sent me before you more of it. And God sent me before you to preserve for you a remnant on earth to preserve for you a remnant on earth to preserve for you a remnant on earth and to keep alive for you many and to keep alive for you many and to keep alive for you many survivors. So it was not you who sent me survivors. So it was not you who sent me survivors. So it was not you who sent me here, but God. You meant evil against here, but God. You meant evil against here, but God. You meant evil against me, but God meant it for good. Now wait, me, but God meant it for good. Now wait, me, but God meant it for good. Now wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did did they wait, wait, wait, wait. Did did they wait, wait, wait, wait. Did did they sell him into Egypt or did God send him sell him into Egypt or did God send him sell him into Egypt or did God send him there? there? there? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Side by side. All right, let's do >> Side by side. All right, let's do >> Side by side. All right, let's do another one because this is a big one another one because this is a big one another one because this is a big one because we may even have to come back to because we may even have to come back to because we may even have to come back to this passage when we're talking about this passage when we're talking about this passage when we're talking about some of these hard questions you're some of these hard questions you're some of these hard questions you're going to give me here in a little bit. going to give me here in a little bit. going to give me here in a little bit. So, this is where the apostles are So, this is where the apostles are So, this is where the apostles are praying in Acts chapter 4. And when praying in Acts chapter 4. And when praying in Acts chapter 4. And when they're praying, they said, "For truly they're praying, they said, "For truly they're praying, they said, "For truly in this city there were gathered against in this city there were gathered against in this city there were gathered against your holy servant Jesus, whom you your holy servant Jesus, whom you your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed both Herod, Pontius Pilate, anointed both Herod, Pontius Pilate, anointed both Herod, Pontius Pilate, don't go to the next slide yet, along don't go to the next slide yet, along don't go to the next slide yet, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of with the Gentiles and the peoples of with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel." And in context, he's basically Israel." And in context, he's basically Israel." And in context, he's basically saying, "Hey, these guys gathered saying, "Hey, these guys gathered saying, "Hey, these guys gathered together and they conspired against together and they conspired against together and they conspired against Jesus and they put him to death." Was Jesus and they put him to death." Was Jesus and they put him to death." Was that a sin?

that a sin? that a sin? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. It was the most evil thing in human >> Yes. It was the most evil thing in human >> Yes. It was the most evil thing in human history. In fact, throughout the book of history. In fact, throughout the book of history. In fact, throughout the book of Acts, you know what they do? They go to Acts, you know what they do? They go to Acts, you know what they do? They go to those people and say, "You put the those people and say, "You put the those people and say, "You put the author of life to death. He resurrected. author of life to death. He resurrected. author of life to death. He resurrected. So, you should kind of repent of that." So, you should kind of repent of that." So, you should kind of repent of that." You know, that's the Paul Cunningham You know, that's the Paul Cunningham You know, that's the Paul Cunningham translation kind of a thing. So, they translation kind of a thing. So, they translation kind of a thing. So, they are holding them responsible for their are holding them responsible for their are holding them responsible for their decisions. Now, let's see what happens. decisions. Now, let's see what happens. decisions. Now, let's see what happens. Go to the next slide. For truly study Go to the next slide. For truly study Go to the next slide. For truly study they gathered together and it says the they gathered together and it says the they gathered together and it says the same thing to do whatever your hand and same thing to do whatever your hand and same thing to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. your plan had predestined to take place. your plan had predestined to take place. There's the word again. There's the word again. There's the word again. >> So wait a second. Did they commit the >> So wait a second. Did they commit the >> So wait a second. Did they commit the most evil sin in human history and do most evil sin in human history and do most evil sin in human history and do what they wanted to do or did they do what they wanted to do or did they do what they wanted to do or did they do what God wanted them to do? what God wanted them to do? what God wanted them to do? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Side by side. Both are there. And here's >> Side by side. Both are there. And here's >> Side by side. Both are there. And here's the thing. This is our next point. the thing. This is our next point. the thing. This is our next point. >> It's a mystery. That's right. It's not >> It's a mystery. That's right. It's not >> It's a mystery. That's right. It's not something we're gonna be able to explain something we're gonna be able to explain something we're gonna be able to explain the side of heaven or even on the other the side of heaven or even on the other the side of heaven or even on the other side of heaven because we're not God. side of heaven because we're not God. side of heaven because we're not God. It's there a miss some listen these It's there a miss some listen these It's there a miss some listen these things are not mysteries were solved. things are not mysteries were solved. things are not mysteries were solved. They're things that we simply hold They're things that we simply hold They're things that we simply hold intention and believe at the same time. intention and believe at the same time. intention and believe at the same time. >> You said it number three. It is >> You said it number three. It is >> You said it number three. It is ultimately a mystery. How does that ultimately a mystery. How does that ultimately a mystery. How does that work? It's a mystery. Let me show you work? It's a mystery. Let me show you work? It's a mystery. Let me show you the meme. There are no contradictions the meme. There are no contradictions the meme. There are no contradictions [laughter] in Calvinism if you just call [laughter] in Calvinism if you just call [laughter] in Calvinism if you just call them mysteries.

them mysteries. them mysteries. >> Oh, I can't wait to show some of that in >> Oh, I can't wait to show some of that in >> Oh, I can't wait to show some of that in Armenianism though. I can't wait. I Armenianism though. I can't wait. I Armenianism though. I can't wait. I can't wait. I'm raring to go, bro. can't wait. I'm raring to go, bro. can't wait. I'm raring to go, bro. There's mysteries on me that keep going, There's mysteries on me that keep going, There's mysteries on me that keep going, bro. bro. bro. >> Uh Romans 11 33-34. This is Paul >> Uh Romans 11 33-34. This is Paul >> Uh Romans 11 33-34. This is Paul speaking. Oh, the depth of the riches speaking. Oh, the depth of the riches speaking. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God. How and wisdom and knowledge of God. How and wisdom and knowledge of God. How uncarchable are his judgments and how uncarchable are his judgments and how uncarchable are his judgments and how inscrable his ways? For who has known inscrable his ways? For who has known inscrable his ways? For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been the mind of the Lord? Or who has been the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor? That's the Apostle Paul his counselor? That's the Apostle Paul his counselor? That's the Apostle Paul saying, [laughter] saying, [laughter] saying, [laughter] "Who knows, man? There's so much that we "Who knows, man? There's so much that we "Who knows, man? There's so much that we don't know." Hey, we should not be don't know." Hey, we should not be don't know." Hey, we should not be surprised that there are some things in surprised that there are some things in surprised that there are some things in the Bible that you and I cannot the Bible that you and I cannot the Bible that you and I cannot comprehend completely because it's God comprehend completely because it's God comprehend completely because it's God who we're talking about. And so our who we're talking about. And so our who we're talking about. And so our response, what we don't do is we don't response, what we don't do is we don't response, what we don't do is we don't just reject the verses that disagrees just reject the verses that disagrees just reject the verses that disagrees with our theology or our theological with our theology or our theological with our theology or our theological framework. We receive what is in the framework. We receive what is in the framework. We receive what is in the Bible and and and if the Bible says that Bible and and and if the Bible says that Bible and and and if the Bible says that again uh God is sovereign and he chooses again uh God is sovereign and he chooses again uh God is sovereign and he chooses and in some ways somehow that we do not and in some ways somehow that we do not and in some ways somehow that we do not fully understand, we have full fully understand, we have full fully understand, we have full responsibility, both things are true. responsibility, both things are true. responsibility, both things are true. >> I remember I'll make this brief. I >> I remember I'll make this brief. I >> I remember I'll make this brief. I remember when I was like in an IMAX 3D remember when I was like in an IMAX 3D remember when I was like in an IMAX 3D um movie one time and it did this like um movie one time and it did this like um movie one time and it did this like 30 secondond really detailed explanation 30 secondond really detailed explanation 30 secondond really detailed explanation of how what I was about to see worked of how what I was about to see worked of how what I was about to see worked >> and I just remember at one point >> and I just remember at one point >> and I just remember at one point thinking thinking thinking >> I don't care to figure out the mystery >> I don't care to figure out the mystery >> I don't care to figure out the mystery of how it works. I just kind of care of how it works. I just kind of care of how it works. I just kind of care that it works.

that it works. that it works. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> Now again I'm not saying what we just >> Now again I'm not saying what we just >> Now again I'm not saying what we just I'm not trying to contain you should I'm not trying to contain you should I'm not trying to contain you should want to know about it. What we're more want to know about it. What we're more want to know about it. What we're more saying is hey there's a level to where saying is hey there's a level to where saying is hey there's a level to where we're never going to be able to fully we're never going to be able to fully we're never going to be able to fully understand it. It doesn't mean that we understand it. It doesn't mean that we understand it. It doesn't mean that we can't then live our lives. We can't. So can't then live our lives. We can't. So can't then live our lives. We can't. So >> number four, it it is not worth dividing >> number four, it it is not worth dividing >> number four, it it is not worth dividing over. over. over. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So there are first tier issues. Yep. >> So there are first tier issues. Yep. >> So there are first tier issues. Yep. That we believe. Trinity, resurrection, That we believe. Trinity, resurrection, That we believe. Trinity, resurrection, salvation. salvation. salvation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> By grace alone, through faith alone. Uh >> By grace alone, through faith alone. Uh >> By grace alone, through faith alone. Uh is the Bible true? is the Bible true? is the Bible true? >> These are things we don't discuss. We >> These are things we don't discuss. We >> These are things we don't discuss. We defend. We don't debate these things. We defend. We don't debate these things. We defend. We don't debate these things. We defend these things. defend these things. defend these things. >> Um and then there's that's first tier >> Um and then there's that's first tier >> Um and then there's that's first tier issues. Then there's secondary issues. issues. Then there's secondary issues. issues. Then there's secondary issues. Uh things that are uh what uh I believe Uh things that are uh what uh I believe Uh things that are uh what uh I believe is Romans 14 calling uh disputable is Romans 14 calling uh disputable is Romans 14 calling uh disputable matters. things that we can disagree on matters. things that we can disagree on matters. things that we can disagree on these, but we don't have to divide over these, but we don't have to divide over these, but we don't have to divide over these things. Um, and so here here's a these things. Um, and so here here's a these things. Um, and so here here's a watch out. Uh, by the way, here's here's watch out. Uh, by the way, here's here's watch out. Uh, by the way, here's here's the meme for this one. Uh, this is John the meme for this one. Uh, this is John the meme for this one. Uh, this is John Kelvin. If you can't afford seminary, Kelvin. If you can't afford seminary, Kelvin. If you can't afford seminary, pick a fight with a Calvinist and get pick a fight with a Calvinist and get pick a fight with a Calvinist and get lectures for free. lectures for free. lectures for free. >> That's funny. >> That's funny. >> That's funny. >> It's unfortunately true. >> It's unfortunately true. >> It's unfortunately true. >> You know what? You know what I was going >> You know what? You know what I was going >> You know what? You know what I was going to ask you? You know why it's funny?

to ask you? You know why it's funny? to ask you? You know why it's funny? >> Because it's true. >> Because it's true. >> Because it's true. >> Because it's 100% true. True. >> Because it's 100% true. True. >> Because it's 100% true. True. >> And uh, I will say this, man. >> And uh, I will say this, man. >> And uh, I will say this, man. >> I'll own that from my side. >> I'll own that from my side. >> I'll own that from my side. >> I want to So, let me give you an example >> I want to So, let me give you an example >> I want to So, let me give you an example of a time that I got it very wrong. Uh of a time that I got it very wrong. Uh of a time that I got it very wrong. Uh when I first started learning about um when I first started learning about um when I first started learning about um reformed theology, reformed theology, reformed theology, >> bro, I loved it so much. I got so into >> bro, I loved it so much. I got so into >> bro, I loved it so much. I got so into it. I started reading a whole bunch of it. I started reading a whole bunch of it. I started reading a whole bunch of books and just like geeky uh deep thick books and just like geeky uh deep thick books and just like geeky uh deep thick uh theological books on reformed uh theological books on reformed uh theological books on reformed theology, five points of Calvinism. And theology, five points of Calvinism. And theology, five points of Calvinism. And I got so classic college experience. I I got so classic college experience. I I got so classic college experience. I got so passionate about debating some of got so passionate about debating some of got so passionate about debating some of these things. I found myself talking these things. I found myself talking these things. I found myself talking about it all the time. And there's a about it all the time. And there's a about it all the time. And there's a point where uh I'm going to give you one point where uh I'm going to give you one point where uh I'm going to give you one example. Um, I was having a conversation example. Um, I was having a conversation example. Um, I was having a conversation with a friend and I'm, you know, we're with a friend and I'm, you know, we're with a friend and I'm, you know, we're kind of arguing back and forth a little kind of arguing back and forth a little kind of arguing back and forth a little bit. She's like, "Oh, that's there's no bit. She's like, "Oh, that's there's no bit. She's like, "Oh, that's there's no way." And I'm just kind of like showing way." And I'm just kind of like showing way." And I'm just kind of like showing her here's scripture, scripture, her here's scripture, scripture, her here's scripture, scripture, scripture. Trying to get her and uh and scripture. Trying to get her and uh and scripture. Trying to get her and uh and then she starts crying. then she starts crying. then she starts crying. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> And I'm like, and I'm like, uhoh. Like, >> And I'm like, and I'm like, uhoh. Like, >> And I'm like, and I'm like, uhoh. Like, >> oh, this is uh I'm I'm hurting her. >> oh, this is uh I'm I'm hurting her. >> oh, this is uh I'm I'm hurting her. >> And uh you know, and so uh that was that >> And uh you know, and so uh that was that >> And uh you know, and so uh that was that was a that was a good wakeup call for me was a that was a good wakeup call for me was a that was a good wakeup call for me because I'm like, man, um this is not because I'm like, man, um this is not because I'm like, man, um this is not the point. No, the point. No, the point. No, >> the point is not to to grab something >> the point is not to to grab something >> the point is not to to grab something that is so precious in scripture and that is so precious in scripture and that is so precious in scripture and true and use it to hurt people true and use it to hurt people true and use it to hurt people >> or win arguments or destroy somebody, >> or win arguments or destroy somebody, >> or win arguments or destroy somebody, which tends to happen for whatever which tends to happen for whatever which tends to happen for whatever reason. Tends to happen. And so, man, reason. Tends to happen. And so, man, reason. Tends to happen. And so, man, I've had a I've had multiple times where I've had a I've had multiple times where I've had a I've had multiple times where I had to repent. I've asked people for I had to repent. I've asked people for I had to repent. I've asked people for forgiveness multiple times and saying forgiveness multiple times and saying forgiveness multiple times and saying going back to be like, you know what?

going back to be like, you know what? going back to be like, you know what? Um, I'm sorry because I was just trying Um, I'm sorry because I was just trying Um, I'm sorry because I was just trying to win an argument and uh that to win an argument and uh that to win an argument and uh that superseded my Christian responsibility superseded my Christian responsibility superseded my Christian responsibility to love you. to love you. to love you. >> That's exactly. >> That's exactly. >> That's exactly. >> And so that's a watch out. Yeah. >> And so that's a watch out. Yeah. >> And so that's a watch out. Yeah. >> Uh, we are not here to, you know, it's >> Uh, we are not here to, you know, it's >> Uh, we are not here to, you know, it's not worth dividing over. We're not here not worth dividing over. We're not here not worth dividing over. We're not here to fight and and win our That's not the to fight and and win our That's not the to fight and and win our That's not the point. If ever you are in a conversation point. If ever you are in a conversation point. If ever you are in a conversation where it feels like it's hurting more where it feels like it's hurting more where it feels like it's hurting more than helping, something went off. than helping, something went off. than helping, something went off. >> Yeah. Good. What's next? >> Yeah. Good. What's next? >> Yeah. Good. What's next? >> Uh, number five. It is deeply >> Uh, number five. It is deeply >> Uh, number five. It is deeply encouraging. encouraging. encouraging. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Uh, here's the me. The Calvinist is >> Uh, here's the me. The Calvinist is >> Uh, here's the me. The Calvinist is never late, nor he is he early. He never late, nor he is he early. He never late, nor he is he early. He arised precisely when he was predestined arised precisely when he was predestined arised precisely when he was predestined to. to. to. >> That's exactly >> That's exactly >> That's exactly >> that's a funny joke. Uh the point number >> that's a funny joke. Uh the point number >> that's a funny joke. Uh the point number five is man it's supposed to be five is man it's supposed to be five is man it's supposed to be encouraging. Literally the doctrine of encouraging. Literally the doctrine of encouraging. Literally the doctrine of election is not ultimately about God election is not ultimately about God election is not ultimately about God choosing some and not others. It is the choosing some and not others. It is the choosing some and not others. It is the fact that the Bible says that in some fact that the Bible says that in some fact that the Bible says that in some sense nobody chose God and in his mercy sense nobody chose God and in his mercy sense nobody chose God and in his mercy and despite our rebellion, God because and despite our rebellion, God because and despite our rebellion, God because he's so loving, he still saves sinners he's so loving, he still saves sinners he's so loving, he still saves sinners like you and me. like you and me. like you and me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's the whole point. Yeah. >> That's the whole point. Yeah. >> That's the whole point. Yeah. >> Uh that you that's grace. Like you have >> Uh that you that's grace. Like you have >> Uh that you that's grace. Like you have been chosen by him not because you been chosen by him not because you been chosen by him not because you deserve it. Um, you have been chosen to deserve it. Um, you have been chosen to deserve it. Um, you have been chosen to be adopted as a son and a daughter. You be adopted as a son and a daughter. You be adopted as a son and a daughter. You have been chosen to belong to the family have been chosen to belong to the family have been chosen to belong to the family of God. You have been chosen [snorts] of God. You have been chosen [snorts] of God. You have been chosen [snorts] for glorious purpose on this earth. You for glorious purpose on this earth. You for glorious purpose on this earth. You have been chosen so that your life have been chosen so that your life have been chosen so that your life literally gives glory to God. That's the literally gives glory to God. That's the literally gives glory to God. That's the highest purpose ever. And so some people highest purpose ever. And so some people highest purpose ever. And so some people would say, "Well, that's not fair that would say, "Well, that's not fair that would say, "Well, that's not fair that God chose some and not others." Um, it God chose some and not others." Um, it God chose some and not others." Um, it is not fair that God chose you and me.

is not fair that God chose you and me. is not fair that God chose you and me. >> It's just it's not it's not fair. That's >> It's just it's not it's not fair. That's >> It's just it's not it's not fair. That's why it's called grace. why it's called grace. why it's called grace. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We don't want fair. We want grace. And >> We don't want fair. We want grace. And >> We don't want fair. We want grace. And that's what God offers us. Um and this that's what God offers us. Um and this that's what God offers us. Um and this reality should produce in us not pride reality should produce in us not pride reality should produce in us not pride because I know better but humility and because I know better but humility and because I know better but humility and uh gratitude, confidence and assurance uh gratitude, confidence and assurance uh gratitude, confidence and assurance that man it is not because of my own that man it is not because of my own that man it is not because of my own effort. It is ultimately because of effort. It is ultimately because of effort. It is ultimately because of God's mercy that I'm here. God's mercy that I'm here. God's mercy that I'm here. >> Good. >> Good. >> Good. >> Number six, it fuels evangelism. >> Number six, it fuels evangelism. >> Number six, it fuels evangelism. >> Yes, it does. >> Yes, it does. >> Yes, it does. >> Uh which would be probably we're >> Uh which would be probably we're >> Uh which would be probably we're answering some of the objections here. answering some of the objections here. answering some of the objections here. Yes, it does. Um the when you look at Yes, it does. Um the when you look at Yes, it does. Um the when you look at scripture, the guy who spoke the most scripture, the guy who spoke the most scripture, the guy who spoke the most about predestination is the same guy who about predestination is the same guy who about predestination is the same guy who was the most passionate about was the most passionate about was the most passionate about evangelizing people. That's the Apostle evangelizing people. That's the Apostle evangelizing people. That's the Apostle Paul. Jesus encouraged Paul to keep. Paul. Jesus encouraged Paul to keep. Paul. Jesus encouraged Paul to keep. There's a part in scripture where Jesus There's a part in scripture where Jesus There's a part in scripture where Jesus tells Paul, "Hey, uh, I know this is tells Paul, "Hey, uh, I know this is tells Paul, "Hey, uh, I know this is really tough for you. Keep going because really tough for you. Keep going because really tough for you. Keep going because where you're going, there are people where you're going, there are people where you're going, there are people that are not saved yet and I will save that are not saved yet and I will save that are not saved yet and I will save them." them." them." >> Yeah. He says when he's in Corinth, I >> Yeah. He says when he's in Corinth, I >> Yeah. He says when he's in Corinth, I have many in the city. We know that's have many in the city. We know that's have many in the city. We know that's not because he had seen a huge revival not because he had seen a huge revival not because he had seen a huge revival because actually the story at the because actually the story at the because actually the story at the beginning of Corinth is he wasn't seeing beginning of Corinth is he wasn't seeing beginning of Corinth is he wasn't seeing a lot of fruit. But yet it says that a lot of fruit. But yet it says that a lot of fruit. But yet it says that when he says that, Paul's reaction when he says that, Paul's reaction when he says that, Paul's reaction isn't, "Well, then if you have many isn't, "Well, then if you have many isn't, "Well, then if you have many people in the city, I guess I'm just people in the city, I guess I'm just people in the city, I guess I'm just going somewhere else." Instead, it's he going somewhere else." Instead, it's he going somewhere else." Instead, it's he stays there and he labors longer. He stays there and he labors longer. He stays there and he labors longer. He labors longer.

labors longer. labors longer. >> He fights harder. >> He fights harder. >> He fights harder. >> Rules of evangelism. Yeah. >> Rules of evangelism. Yeah. >> Rules of evangelism. Yeah. >> He's empowered. >> He's empowered. >> He's empowered. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so, man, uh I love this too from >> And so, man, uh I love this too from >> And so, man, uh I love this too from multiple from one if if you are every multiple from one if if you are every multiple from one if if you are every Christian is called to share their Christian is called to share their Christian is called to share their faith. By the way, um yes, faith. By the way, um yes, faith. By the way, um yes, >> this is great news. >> this is great news. >> this is great news. >> It is not up to your brilliant capacity >> It is not up to your brilliant capacity >> It is not up to your brilliant capacity to persuade somebody to trust in Jesus to persuade somebody to trust in Jesus to persuade somebody to trust in Jesus for them to be saved. It is up to the for them to be saved. It is up to the for them to be saved. It is up to the power of God. You can try to change power of God. You can try to change power of God. You can try to change somebody's mind. Only God can change somebody's mind. Only God can change somebody's mind. Only God can change their heart. That's right. their heart. That's right. their heart. That's right. >> And so that's great news, man. Go go go >> And so that's great news, man. Go go go >> And so that's great news, man. Go go go tell them. tell them. tell them. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Go go go to your friend. >> Go go go to your friend. >> Go go go to your friend. >> Let me Yeah, we can go ahead and like we >> Let me Yeah, we can go ahead and like we >> Let me Yeah, we can go ahead and like we can jump in on this one. Then we can can jump in on this one. Then we can can jump in on this one. Then we can jump into some of the other objections jump into some of the other objections jump into some of the other objections as we call them. Frequently shouted as we call them. Frequently shouted as we call them. Frequently shouted questions. Not asked, shouted questions. Not asked, shouted questions. Not asked, shouted >> questions on this topic. It'll be fun. >> questions on this topic. It'll be fun. >> questions on this topic. It'll be fun. You're about to grill me. I just see it You're about to grill me. I just see it You're about to grill me. I just see it in your face. You're just like excited. in your face. You're just like excited. in your face. You're just like excited. But you're about to try to just drill me But you're about to try to just drill me But you're about to try to just drill me with some of these. It's going to be so with some of these. It's going to be so with some of these. It's going to be so great. great. great. >> Um, but before we get there, let me >> Um, but before we get there, let me >> Um, but before we get there, let me dispel one notion. Whenever I teach on dispel one notion. Whenever I teach on dispel one notion. Whenever I teach on this, I like to try to get rid of a lot this, I like to try to get rid of a lot this, I like to try to get rid of a lot of stereotypes. And I'm not going to go of stereotypes. And I'm not going to go of stereotypes. And I'm not going to go through all the stereotypes, get rid of through all the stereotypes, get rid of through all the stereotypes, get rid of it. But what I do is is like, well, oh it. But what I do is is like, well, oh it. But what I do is is like, well, oh well, hey, if this is true, then what's well, hey, if this is true, then what's well, hey, if this is true, then what's the there's no point in evangelism and the there's no point in evangelism and the there's no point in evangelism and it'll destroy it.

it'll destroy it. it'll destroy it. >> And that's not true. In fact, what I >> And that's not true. In fact, what I >> And that's not true. In fact, what I love to do um to show this is I like to love to do um to show this is I like to love to do um to show this is I like to put a picture up of different Calvinists put a picture up of different Calvinists put a picture up of different Calvinists and Armenians that are famous throughout and Armenians that are famous throughout and Armenians that are famous throughout history, specifically preachers and history, specifically preachers and history, specifically preachers and movement leaders throughout history. And movement leaders throughout history. And movement leaders throughout history. And so I've actually I've got actually got a so I've actually I've got actually got a so I've actually I've got actually got a slide for us. Um and I don't have labels slide for us. Um and I don't have labels slide for us. Um and I don't have labels on them, by the way. I'll just give you on them, by the way. I'll just give you on them, by the way. I'll just give you some of the names. In the top left, you some of the names. In the top left, you some of the names. In the top left, you got a guy named Jonathan Edwards, one of got a guy named Jonathan Edwards, one of got a guy named Jonathan Edwards, one of the primary preachers in the first great the primary preachers in the first great the primary preachers in the first great awakening. I mean, literally just awakening. I mean, literally just awakening. I mean, literally just percentage-wise. Um, like I think it was percentage-wise. Um, like I think it was percentage-wise. Um, like I think it was between 25 and 30 something% of people between 25 and 30 something% of people between 25 and 30 something% of people who came to faith in America at that who came to faith in America at that who came to faith in America at that time. Not just through him, but in a time. Not just through him, but in a time. Not just through him, but in a large part, he did lead it. And it's large part, he did lead it. And it's large part, he did lead it. And it's just incredible the the amount of people just incredible the the amount of people just incredible the the amount of people that came to faith. Going to the bottom that came to faith. Going to the bottom that came to faith. Going to the bottom left though, you got a guy named Finny. left though, you got a guy named Finny. left though, you got a guy named Finny. Finny was in the second great awakening. Finny was in the second great awakening. Finny was in the second great awakening. millions people can trace their uh millions people can trace their uh millions people can trace their uh salvation either through his ministry or salvation either through his ministry or salvation either through his ministry or eventually because of the fruit of his eventually because of the fruit of his eventually because of the fruit of his ministry in generations to come. Top you ministry in generations to come. Top you ministry in generations to come. Top you got Lemu um Haynes who is actually the got Lemu um Haynes who is actually the got Lemu um Haynes who is actually the first African-American ordained first African-American ordained first African-American ordained minister. Um he was a Puritan and uh minister. Um he was a Puritan and uh minister. Um he was a Puritan and uh just saw incredible things through his just saw incredible things through his just saw incredible things through his ministry. You got Vodie Bacham on the ministry. You got Vodie Bacham on the ministry. You got Vodie Bacham on the bottom. This guy unfortunately he passed bottom. This guy unfortunately he passed bottom. This guy unfortunately he passed away over the past year. Preached to away over the past year. Preached to away over the past year. Preached to tens of thousands. I preached the gospel tens of thousands. I preached the gospel tens of thousands. I preached the gospel tens of thousands not hundreds of tens of thousands not hundreds of tens of thousands not hundreds of thousands. Absolute legend. and I thousands. Absolute legend. and I thousands. Absolute legend. and I believe he played football at the believe he played football at the believe he played football at the University of Georgia. Yeah, he's he's a University of Georgia. Yeah, he's he's a University of Georgia. Yeah, he's he's a big dude. But yeah, just incredible big dude. But yeah, just incredible big dude. But yeah, just incredible preacher, incredibly used by God, saw preacher, incredibly used by God, saw preacher, incredibly used by God, saw tons of people get saved his ministry.

tons of people get saved his ministry. tons of people get saved his ministry. To his right, we got, you know, just To his right, we got, you know, just To his right, we got, you know, just little guy named Charles had in little guy named Charles had in little guy named Charles had in Spurgeon, you know, arguably the first Spurgeon, you know, arguably the first Spurgeon, you know, arguably the first mega church pastor ever. Like this guy, mega church pastor ever. Like this guy, mega church pastor ever. Like this guy, like they had to go to massive theater like they had to go to massive theater like they had to go to massive theater to can like to hold all the people that to can like to hold all the people that to can like to hold all the people that his ministry was reaching like his ministry was reaching like his ministry was reaching like >> preachers. >> preachers. >> preachers. >> Thousands and thousands and thousands of >> Thousands and thousands and thousands of >> Thousands and thousands and thousands of people preached all the time. Like people preached all the time. Like people preached all the time. Like insane. You got in the top right, John insane. You got in the top right, John insane. You got in the top right, John Wesley, uh, one of the founders of Wesley, uh, one of the founders of Wesley, uh, one of the founders of Methodism, just went all over the place. Methodism, just went all over the place. Methodism, just went all over the place. Again, you can trace literally the Again, you can trace literally the Again, you can trace literally the salvation of millions of people through salvation of millions of people through salvation of millions of people through the Methodist denomination. Um, I know the Methodist denomination. Um, I know the Methodist denomination. Um, I know they've gone a little astray recently, they've gone a little astray recently, they've gone a little astray recently, but in the early days is amazing. And but in the early days is amazing. And but in the early days is amazing. And even there's some some great Methodists even there's some some great Methodists even there's some some great Methodists today, but literally because of this man today, but literally because of this man today, but literally because of this man in the bottom, I got Miguel Nunes, who in the bottom, I got Miguel Nunes, who in the bottom, I got Miguel Nunes, who is in Latin America. You know him? is in Latin America. You know him? is in Latin America. You know him? >> Look at you, bro. >> Look at you, bro. >> Look at you, bro. >> Do you know him? >> Do you know him? >> Do you know him? >> Yeah. I'm not personally, but >> Yeah. I'm not personally, but >> Yeah. I'm not personally, but >> Oh, that's awesome. >> Oh, that's awesome. >> Oh, that's awesome. >> I was surprised you put him in there. >> I was surprised you put him in there. >> I was surprised you put him in there. >> Awesome. So, again, all these guys been >> Awesome. So, again, all these guys been >> Awesome. So, again, all these guys been greatly used. So here's my question. greatly used. So here's my question. greatly used. So here's my question. Based on the description I just gave, Based on the description I just gave, Based on the description I just gave, who's the Calvinist and who's the who's the Calvinist and who's the who's the Calvinist and who's the Armenian? Armenian? Armenian? >> Not not not based on what you know. Just >> Not not not based on what you know. Just >> Not not not based on what you know. Just based on what I said. based on what I said. based on what I said. >> Oh, I have no idea. >> Oh, I have no idea. >> Oh, I have no idea. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's the point. None >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's the point. None >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's the point. None of them are. So you got Jonathan Edwards of them are. So you got Jonathan Edwards of them are. So you got Jonathan Edwards is a Calvinist. Phineas is Armenian.

is a Calvinist. Phineas is Armenian. is a Calvinist. Phineas is Armenian. Bacham is a Calvinist. Hayne's a Bacham is a Calvinist. Hayne's a Bacham is a Calvinist. Hayne's a Calvinist. Spurgeon's a Calvinist. Nun Calvinist. Spurgeon's a Calvinist. Nun Calvinist. Spurgeon's a Calvinist. Nun Calvinist. And then John Wesley is Calvinist. And then John Wesley is Calvinist. And then John Wesley is Arminian. I put more Calvinists in there Arminian. I put more Calvinists in there Arminian. I put more Calvinists in there to make a point. to make a point. to make a point. >> Nunes is >> Nunes is >> Nunes is >> Nunes is for sure Calvinist. I put more >> Nunes is for sure Calvinist. I put more >> Nunes is for sure Calvinist. I put more Calvinist in there to make a point. Calvinist in there to make a point. Calvinist in there to make a point. Like, hey guys, at the end of the day, a Like, hey guys, at the end of the day, a Like, hey guys, at the end of the day, a couple things. Number one, if you do couple things. Number one, if you do couple things. Number one, if you do this right, everybody should be this right, everybody should be this right, everybody should be passionate about evangelism because passionate about evangelism because passionate about evangelism because Jesus Christ commanded it. Jesus Christ commanded it. Jesus Christ commanded it. >> And number two, the other reason I say >> And number two, the other reason I say >> And number two, the other reason I say this is this is something that I really this is this is something that I really this is this is something that I really shouldn't know where you stand unless shouldn't know where you stand unless shouldn't know where you stand unless we're talking about it. we're talking about it. we're talking about it. >> That when I look at you from afar, I >> That when I look at you from afar, I >> That when I look at you from afar, I should honestly be confused. I should be should honestly be confused. I should be should honestly be confused. I should be like, "Dude, they're out there just like, "Dude, they're out there just like, "Dude, they're out there just passionately sharing the gospel with passionately sharing the gospel with passionately sharing the gospel with people. They must be in Arminion." But people. They must be in Arminion." But people. They must be in Arminion." But then when I hear how you pray then when I hear how you pray then when I hear how you pray >> and they're you're talking about, "Oh, >> and they're you're talking about, "Oh, >> and they're you're talking about, "Oh, God, would you change these people God, would you change these people God, would you change these people hearts and sovereignly do? Oh, they must hearts and sovereignly do? Oh, they must hearts and sovereignly do? Oh, they must be a Calvinist. I should be confused be a Calvinist. I should be confused be a Calvinist. I should be confused looking at you from afar. So, I would looking at you from afar. So, I would looking at you from afar. So, I would encourage you wherever side of this you encourage you wherever side of this you encourage you wherever side of this you stand on. Make it your goal to almost stand on. Make it your goal to almost stand on. Make it your goal to almost make people confused about where you make people confused about where you make people confused about where you stand by how you live your life because stand by how you live your life because stand by how you live your life because you're keeping the tensions of scripture you're keeping the tensions of scripture you're keeping the tensions of scripture in place. All right. All this being in place. All right. All this being in place. All right. All this being said, you ready to fire away at me? said, you ready to fire away at me? said, you ready to fire away at me? >> Before I do, uh, one more thing on that >> Before I do, uh, one more thing on that >> Before I do, uh, one more thing on that point. Um, here here's also why this point. Um, here here's also why this point. Um, here here's also why this probably hits a little closer to home probably hits a little closer to home probably hits a little closer to home for a lot of people. Um, if you have for a lot of people. Um, if you have for a lot of people. Um, if you have somebody that you love that they don't somebody that you love that they don't somebody that you love that they don't know Jesus and you're like, man, but know Jesus and you're like, man, but know Jesus and you're like, man, but they're so stubborn, they're so stubborn, they're so stubborn, >> they hate God. They're so far away. Um, >> they hate God. They're so far away. Um, >> they hate God. They're so far away. Um, why this is encouraging is because why this is encouraging is because why this is encouraging is because Paul's own conversion is the clearest Paul's own conversion is the clearest Paul's own conversion is the clearest example of somebody who was completely example of somebody who was completely example of somebody who was completely opposed to the cause of Christ. He's opposed to the cause of Christ. He's opposed to the cause of Christ. He's literally persecuting Christians and yet literally persecuting Christians and yet literally persecuting Christians and yet God's like, "Nope, God's like, "Nope, God's like, "Nope, >> I'm going to get you." And he does. And >> I'm going to get you." And he does. And >> I'm going to get you." And he does. And so, uh, in his sovereignty, um, God

so, uh, in his sovereignty, um, God so, uh, in his sovereignty, um, God stops Paul literally wherever he's stops Paul literally wherever he's stops Paul literally wherever he's going, he stops and says, "Hey, now now going, he stops and says, "Hey, now now going, he stops and says, "Hey, now now you're mine. you're mine. you're mine. >> Uh, but I don't want to. You're mine." >> Uh, but I don't want to. You're mine." >> Uh, but I don't want to. You're mine." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh, literally he did not want to. his >> Uh, literally he did not want to. his >> Uh, literally he did not want to. his heart was not choosing God at that heart was not choosing God at that heart was not choosing God at that moment and God's like I choose you. Uh moment and God's like I choose you. Uh moment and God's like I choose you. Uh and the same is true for the people that and the same is true for the people that and the same is true for the people that we know that are uh far from God. Um we know that are uh far from God. Um we know that are uh far from God. Um family members, prodigal sons, um if God family members, prodigal sons, um if God family members, prodigal sons, um if God can save Paul, he can save anybody. can save Paul, he can save anybody. can save Paul, he can save anybody. >> That's right. Ephesians 2 says that >> That's right. Ephesians 2 says that >> That's right. Ephesians 2 says that apart from Christ, we're dead in sin. apart from Christ, we're dead in sin. apart from Christ, we're dead in sin. Hey Carlos, when was the last time you Hey Carlos, when was the last time you Hey Carlos, when was the last time you made a really compelling argument to a made a really compelling argument to a made a really compelling argument to a dead person to convince them to come to dead person to convince them to come to dead person to convince them to come to life? life? life? >> Doesn't work. >> Doesn't work. >> Doesn't work. >> No. Your only hope if you wanted to >> No. Your only hope if you wanted to >> No. Your only hope if you wanted to raise someone physically from the dead raise someone physically from the dead raise someone physically from the dead is that the God who can raise the dead is that the God who can raise the dead is that the God who can raise the dead would raise them. It's the same truth would raise them. It's the same truth would raise them. It's the same truth spiritually. And again, you may not spiritually. And again, you may not spiritually. And again, you may not agree with my standpoint now that I've agree with my standpoint now that I've agree with my standpoint now that I've laid it out there. My point is even if laid it out there. My point is even if laid it out there. My point is even if you're more minion perspective, my guess you're more minion perspective, my guess you're more minion perspective, my guess is you probably pray like I just said. is you probably pray like I just said. is you probably pray like I just said. And so again, if no matter where you're And so again, if no matter where you're And so again, if no matter where you're at, we should be people who share the at, we should be people who share the at, we should be people who share the gospel with people and keep the tensions gospel with people and keep the tensions gospel with people and keep the tensions that scripture keeps in place. Let's not that scripture keeps in place. Let's not that scripture keeps in place. Let's not separate from uh let's not separate what separate from uh let's not separate what separate from uh let's not separate what scripture keeps together. All right, scripture keeps together. All right, scripture keeps together. All right, >> let's rapid fire these. We're uh we're >> let's rapid fire these. We're uh we're >> let's rapid fire these. We're uh we're getting close here. Okay. So, uh, getting close here. Okay. So, uh, getting close here. Okay. So, uh, frequently shouted questions on frequently shouted questions on frequently shouted questions on predestination and hell. Um, I might predestination and hell. Um, I might predestination and hell. Um, I might suspend my reformed beliefs in this suspend my reformed beliefs in this suspend my reformed beliefs in this moment and play the Arminion for the moment and play the Arminion for the moment and play the Arminion for the sake of this conversation. You ready for sake of this conversation. You ready for sake of this conversation. You ready for that, Paul?

that, Paul? that, Paul? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay, let's do it. All right. So, Paul, >> Okay, let's do it. All right. So, Paul, >> Okay, let's do it. All right. So, Paul, you're a Calvinist. Um, so you're saying you're a Calvinist. Um, so you're saying you're a Calvinist. Um, so you're saying God cho chooses people to go to heaven. God cho chooses people to go to heaven. God cho chooses people to go to heaven. >> Does that mean that you believe that God >> Does that mean that you believe that God >> Does that mean that you believe that God chooses people to go to hell? Because by chooses people to go to hell? Because by chooses people to go to hell? Because by default, if God chooses some and not default, if God chooses some and not default, if God chooses some and not all, then does that mean that some all, then does that mean that some all, then does that mean that some people are chosen for hell from the people are chosen for hell from the people are chosen for hell from the foundation of the world? That true? foundation of the world? That true? foundation of the world? That true? >> That's what you believe, right? >> That's what you believe, right? >> That's what you believe, right? >> That's a tough one. >> That's a tough one. >> That's a tough one. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And this again, I think this is one of >> And this again, I think this is one of >> And this again, I think this is one of the biggest thing that Armenians the biggest thing that Armenians the biggest thing that Armenians struggle with. And we, if you're a struggle with. And we, if you're a struggle with. And we, if you're a Calvinist, you shouldn't make light of Calvinist, you shouldn't make light of Calvinist, you shouldn't make light of that cuz if you're an Armenian, you're that cuz if you're an Armenian, you're that cuz if you're an Armenian, you're struggling with this, you're thinking, struggling with this, you're thinking, struggling with this, you're thinking, number one, h how does this not make God number one, h how does this not make God number one, h how does this not make God a monster? Now, I don't believe it does. a monster? Now, I don't believe it does. a monster? Now, I don't believe it does. >> Mhm. Um, I do want to give a word here >> Mhm. Um, I do want to give a word here >> Mhm. Um, I do want to give a word here before we end if if if you just can't before we end if if if you just can't before we end if if if you just can't overcome that of what I think you should overcome that of what I think you should overcome that of what I think you should do. Um, but then the other thing is your do. Um, but then the other thing is your do. Um, but then the other thing is your mind just goes to this isn't just mind just goes to this isn't just mind just goes to this isn't just abstract theory. We got family members abstract theory. We got family members abstract theory. We got family members and friends that may not be believers and friends that may not be believers and friends that may not be believers and this is this is hard. and this is this is hard. and this is this is hard. >> This is people that maybe we believe >> This is people that maybe we believe >> This is people that maybe we believe that they never met Christ and then they that they never met Christ and then they that they never met Christ and then they they passed and what happened?

they passed and what happened? they passed and what happened? >> So, if if you're listening to this and >> So, if if you're listening to this and >> So, if if you're listening to this and you're coming from a Calvinist you're coming from a Calvinist you're coming from a Calvinist perspective, don't be an idiot and just perspective, don't be an idiot and just perspective, don't be an idiot and just immediately mock them and fire off an immediately mock them and fire off an immediately mock them and fire off an easy answer to a really tough question. easy answer to a really tough question. easy answer to a really tough question. understand where people are coming from. understand where people are coming from. understand where people are coming from. And so again, part of what I'm going to And so again, part of what I'm going to And so again, part of what I'm going to do right, and I'm just being honest, is do right, and I'm just being honest, is do right, and I'm just being honest, is I'm gonna almost pretend the cameras I'm gonna almost pretend the cameras I'm gonna almost pretend the cameras aren't honest and like you and I were aren't honest and like you and I were aren't honest and like you and I were just hanging out and we'll just treat it just hanging out and we'll just treat it just hanging out and we'll just treat it like, "Hey, man, here's what I would do like, "Hey, man, here's what I would do like, "Hey, man, here's what I would do with you if you were just hanging out with you if you were just hanging out with you if you were just hanging out and other people can imagine just that and other people can imagine just that and other people can imagine just that we're doing that together." we're doing that together." we're doing that together." >> Yeah, man. A few things here. One is is >> Yeah, man. A few things here. One is is >> Yeah, man. A few things here. One is is I would say just a few caveats before I I would say just a few caveats before I I would say just a few caveats before I go to some scripture to kind of show how go to some scripture to kind of show how go to some scripture to kind of show how I wrestle with this. What I think I wrestle with this. What I think I wrestle with this. What I think scripture says about this one is is I scripture says about this one is is I scripture says about this one is is I have to be most committed to what have to be most committed to what have to be most committed to what scripture says, not to what my feelings scripture says, not to what my feelings scripture says, not to what my feelings say. say. say. So what decides it is not whether I like So what decides it is not whether I like So what decides it is not whether I like what the Bible says, but what does the what the Bible says, but what does the what the Bible says, but what does the Bible say? And then I have to go to what Bible say? And then I have to go to what Bible say? And then I have to go to what the Bible says and say, "Okay, man, the Bible says and say, "Okay, man, the Bible says and say, "Okay, man, whether or not I like it initially, man, whether or not I like it initially, man, whether or not I like it initially, man, what does the clear reading of scripture what does the clear reading of scripture what does the clear reading of scripture seem to say?" And I have to precommit seem to say?" And I have to precommit seem to say?" And I have to precommit that I'm going to go wherever it seems that I'm going to go wherever it seems that I'm going to go wherever it seems that scripture leads me. So that's just that scripture leads me. So that's just that scripture leads me. So that's just one thing I would say to everybody is one thing I would say to everybody is one thing I would say to everybody is make that pre-commit. Another caveat is make that pre-commit. Another caveat is make that pre-commit. Another caveat is this is that um as someone who believes this is that um as someone who believes this is that um as someone who believes in unconditional election um I also in unconditional election um I also in unconditional election um I also believe that there is not a single believe that there is not a single believe that there is not a single person in hell that does not deserve to person in hell that does not deserve to person in hell that does not deserve to be there and does not want to be there.

be there and does not want to be there. be there and does not want to be there. >> I don't believe that the way this works >> I don't believe that the way this works >> I don't believe that the way this works is that God drags people kicking and is that God drags people kicking and is that God drags people kicking and screaming into hell. I believe that al screaming into hell. I believe that al screaming into hell. I believe that al ultimately a lot of people have this ultimately a lot of people have this ultimately a lot of people have this misconception that Calvinists don't misconception that Calvinists don't misconception that Calvinists don't believe in free will. That's not true. believe in free will. That's not true. believe in free will. That's not true. We do. We have a different definition We do. We have a different definition We do. We have a different definition which is often why frankly why Armenians which is often why frankly why Armenians which is often why frankly why Armenians and Calvinists talk past each other. We and Calvinists talk past each other. We and Calvinists talk past each other. We have different def they an Armenian has have different def they an Armenian has have different def they an Armenian has a different definition of God's a different definition of God's a different definition of God's sovereignty than a Calvinist sovereignty than a Calvinist sovereignty than a Calvinist >> and a Calvinist has a different >> and a Calvinist has a different >> and a Calvinist has a different definition of free will than Armenian. definition of free will than Armenian. definition of free will than Armenian. So often times we talk past each other. So often times we talk past each other. So often times we talk past each other. So a Calvinist perspective would mean So a Calvinist perspective would mean So a Calvinist perspective would mean you are free if you choose what you you are free if you choose what you you are free if you choose what you would want to choose. So if I want to would want to choose. So if I want to would want to choose. So if I want to pick up this cup and I picked it up then pick up this cup and I picked it up then pick up this cup and I picked it up then I was free to do that. If someone made I was free to do that. If someone made I was free to do that. If someone made me do something I didn't want to do that me do something I didn't want to do that me do something I didn't want to do that I'm not free. And so what we would I'm not free. And so what we would I'm not free. And so what we would believe is that man ultimately there's believe is that man ultimately there's believe is that man ultimately there's no one who's going to go to hell who did no one who's going to go to hell who did no one who's going to go to hell who did not want to be there. There's no one not want to be there. There's no one not want to be there. There's no one who's going to go to hell who said man I who's going to go to hell who said man I who's going to go to hell who said man I really wanted to believe in Jesus but I really wanted to believe in Jesus but I really wanted to believe in Jesus but I just wasn't allowed to. No one's going just wasn't allowed to. No one's going just wasn't allowed to. No one's going to do that. Now someone's going to fire to do that. Now someone's going to fire to do that. Now someone's going to fire back which you may watch the video here back which you may watch the video here back which you may watch the video here in a minute and say that doesn't make in a minute and say that doesn't make in a minute and say that doesn't make sense. And I get that but we'll get to sense. And I get that but we'll get to sense. And I get that but we'll get to that in a minute. So that's just a few that in a minute. So that's just a few that in a minute. So that's just a few caveats that I think are at least caveats that I think are at least caveats that I think are at least important. That's great. So I said important. That's great. So I said important. That's great. So I said earlier we got to go to scripture. earlier we got to go to scripture. earlier we got to go to scripture. There's a lot of scripture we could go There's a lot of scripture we could go There's a lot of scripture we could go to but let me just go to a few things.

to but let me just go to a few things. to but let me just go to a few things. Um number one no one can come to me. Um number one no one can come to me. Um number one no one can come to me. John 6:44. No one can come to me unless John 6:44. No one can come to me unless John 6:44. No one can come to me unless the father who sent me. Jesus is talking the father who sent me. Jesus is talking the father who sent me. Jesus is talking here draws them and I will raise them up here draws them and I will raise them up here draws them and I will raise them up on the last day. So this isn't talking on the last day. So this isn't talking on the last day. So this isn't talking about possibility. This is talking about about possibility. This is talking about about possibility. This is talking about it's definitely going to happen. If it's definitely going to happen. If it's definitely going to happen. If these people come to me, I will raise these people come to me, I will raise these people come to me, I will raise them up on the last day with the them up on the last day with the them up on the last day with the implication of for salvation. implication of for salvation. implication of for salvation. >> So but no one can come to me unless the >> So but no one can come to me unless the >> So but no one can come to me unless the father who sent them draws them. So then father who sent them draws them. So then father who sent them draws them. So then the question becomes, well, if they the question becomes, well, if they the question becomes, well, if they don't come to him, what's going to don't come to him, what's going to don't come to him, what's going to happen to them on the last day? Where happen to them on the last day? Where happen to them on the last day? Where are they going to go? Hell. Well, if are they going to go? Hell. Well, if are they going to go? Hell. Well, if only they can come at who the father only they can come at who the father only they can come at who the father draws, but not everyone comes to Jesus, draws, but not everyone comes to Jesus, draws, but not everyone comes to Jesus, then what is the implication of that? then what is the implication of that? then what is the implication of that? That there were going to be some who That there were going to be some who That there were going to be some who don't and they're going to go to hell. don't and they're going to go to hell. don't and they're going to go to hell. >> But then, so I have to wrestle with that >> But then, so I have to wrestle with that >> But then, so I have to wrestle with that verse of like, hey, if only people can verse of like, hey, if only people can verse of like, hey, if only people can come and the father draws them, why come and the father draws them, why come and the father draws them, why doesn't he just draw everybody? doesn't he just draw everybody? doesn't he just draw everybody? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I have to wrestle with that. >> So, I have to wrestle with that. >> So, I have to wrestle with that. >> Um, I have to wrestle with Romans nine >> Um, I have to wrestle with Romans nine >> Um, I have to wrestle with Romans nine where it talks about how Pharaoh was where it talks about how Pharaoh was where it talks about how Pharaoh was raised up. Um and it says to show his raised up. Um and it says to show his raised up. Um and it says to show his power, but then eventually um Romans 9, power, but then eventually um Romans 9, power, but then eventually um Romans 9, Paul says um that God, God speaking, I Paul says um that God, God speaking, I Paul says um that God, God speaking, I will have mercy on whom I will have will have mercy on whom I will have will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will harden whom I will mercy and I will harden whom I will mercy and I will harden whom I will harden. Talking to Pharaoh harden. Talking to Pharaoh harden. Talking to Pharaoh >> and that somehow God showed his glory by >> and that somehow God showed his glory by >> and that somehow God showed his glory by pouring out his wrath and judgment on pouring out his wrath and judgment on pouring out his wrath and judgment on Pharaoh. And I asked myself like what do Pharaoh. And I asked myself like what do Pharaoh. And I asked myself like what do I do with that? How do I wrestle with I do with that? How do I wrestle with I do with that? How do I wrestle with that?

that? that? >> There's other psy I'm just trying to I'm >> There's other psy I'm just trying to I'm >> There's other psy I'm just trying to I'm trying to give you a few just to wrestle trying to give you a few just to wrestle trying to give you a few just to wrestle with. Then I say, "Hey, I'd have no with. Then I say, "Hey, I'd have no with. Then I say, "Hey, I'd have no illusions that when I'm saying all this illusions that when I'm saying all this illusions that when I'm saying all this in this conversation, if you disagree in this conversation, if you disagree in this conversation, if you disagree with me, you're going to come to my with me, you're going to come to my with me, you're going to come to my side." I'm more giving those passages, side." I'm more giving those passages, side." I'm more giving those passages, say those passages have to mean say those passages have to mean say those passages have to mean something something something whether you like it or not. I'm giving whether you like it or not. I'm giving whether you like it or not. I'm giving you some passages just to go maybe after you some passages just to go maybe after you some passages just to go maybe after this podcast and wrestle with them. this podcast and wrestle with them. this podcast and wrestle with them. Okay? And so here's the reality is a Okay? And so here's the reality is a Okay? And so here's the reality is a Calvinist would say this that God Calvinist would say this that God Calvinist would say this that God ultimately, yes, chooses everything, but ultimately, yes, chooses everything, but ultimately, yes, chooses everything, but he chooses differently. There's a he chooses differently. There's a he chooses differently. There's a difference between him actively difference between him actively difference between him actively choosing someone for salvation and then choosing someone for salvation and then choosing someone for salvation and then actively passing over someone for what's actively passing over someone for what's actively passing over someone for what's often called as damnation or them going often called as damnation or them going often called as damnation or them going to hell. to hell. to hell. >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, >> think of it like this. Going back to >> think of it like this. Going back to >> think of it like this. Going back to John 6:44. No one can come to me unless John 6:44. No one can come to me unless John 6:44. No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws them. Let the father who sent me draws them. Let the father who sent me draws them. Let me say it like this. me say it like this. me say it like this. >> The only thing that God has to do to >> The only thing that God has to do to >> The only thing that God has to do to allow anyone to go to hell is to do allow anyone to go to hell is to do allow anyone to go to hell is to do nothing. If God left us to our own nothing. If God left us to our own nothing. If God left us to our own devices, every single human being would devices, every single human being would devices, every single human being would go to hell. Yeah. Without exception.

go to hell. Yeah. Without exception. go to hell. Yeah. Without exception. >> Everybody exercises their quote unquote >> Everybody exercises their quote unquote >> Everybody exercises their quote unquote free will and nobody picked God. free will and nobody picked God. free will and nobody picked God. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> So they would reject him. So when I read >> So they would reject him. So when I read >> So they would reject him. So when I read that and it says no one come unless the that and it says no one come unless the that and it says no one come unless the father draws him, it means only thing he father draws him, it means only thing he father draws him, it means only thing he has to do is leave people to themselves. has to do is leave people to themselves. has to do is leave people to themselves. >> And by the ver by the by the way that's >> And by the ver by the by the way that's >> And by the ver by the by the way that's a verse. a verse. a verse. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Uh is it Romans 3 and3? >> Uh is it Romans 3 and3? >> Uh is it Romans 3 and3? >> Yeah. Uh, no, that that what I just read >> Yeah. Uh, no, that that what I just read >> Yeah. Uh, no, that that what I just read was uh John 6:44. Okay. Um, and so so was uh John 6:44. Okay. Um, and so so was uh John 6:44. Okay. Um, and so so Oh, wait. You're talking about the Oh, wait. You're talking about the Oh, wait. You're talking about the rebellion. Yeah. The Romans 3:23. All rebellion. Yeah. The Romans 3:23. All rebellion. Yeah. The Romans 3:23. All have sinned and fallen short of the have sinned and fallen short of the have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. glory of God. glory of God. >> Yeah. That's called rebellion against >> Yeah. That's called rebellion against >> Yeah. That's called rebellion against God. Every single one of us. God. Every single one of us. God. Every single one of us. >> And by the way, I know this is taking me >> And by the way, I know this is taking me >> And by the way, I know this is taking me a few minutes. I'm trying to just go a few minutes. I'm trying to just go a few minutes. I'm trying to just go slow for people and again try to point slow for people and again try to point slow for people and again try to point to verses and have us at least wrestle to verses and have us at least wrestle to verses and have us at least wrestle with them instead of giving an easy with them instead of giving an easy with them instead of giving an easy answer to a tough question. And so all answer to a tough question. And so all answer to a tough question. And so all that God would have to do for everybody that God would have to do for everybody that God would have to do for everybody go to hell is to do nothing. He'd just go to hell is to do nothing. He'd just go to hell is to do nothing. He'd just leave them to themselves and they would leave them to themselves and they would leave them to themselves and they would reject him. in order to save anyone, he reject him. in order to save anyone, he reject him. in order to save anyone, he has to take the initiative. But there's has to take the initiative. But there's has to take the initiative. But there's a difference between saying God has to a difference between saying God has to a difference between saying God has to actively do something to save me or he actively do something to save me or he actively do something to save me or he has to passively do nothing to not save has to passively do nothing to not save has to passively do nothing to not save me. Okay, me. Okay, me. Okay, >> here's why this is important. I know >> here's why this is important. I know >> here's why this is important. I know some people are going to respond and some people are going to respond and some people are going to respond and maybe you will in a second. Well, Paul, maybe you will in a second. Well, Paul, maybe you will in a second. Well, Paul, it ends up in the same place. And yes, it ends up in the same place. And yes, it ends up in the same place. And yes, it practically does. But let me give a it practically does. But let me give a it practically does. But let me give a different analogy away from salvation to different analogy away from salvation to different analogy away from salvation to kind of help people understand maybe a kind of help people understand maybe a kind of help people understand maybe a different way of coming out this is to different way of coming out this is to different way of coming out this is to say, hey, what we are trying to do is say, hey, what we are trying to do is say, hey, what we are trying to do is we're trying to guard against the idea we're trying to guard against the idea we're trying to guard against the idea of God being the author of evil.

of God being the author of evil. of God being the author of evil. >> And I don't like it when people say >> And I don't like it when people say >> And I don't like it when people say double predestination. God sends them to double predestination. God sends them to double predestination. God sends them to hell. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. hell. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. hell. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. There's a difference between saying God There's a difference between saying God There's a difference between saying God has to do something to save me and he has to do something to save me and he has to do something to save me and he has to do nothing to not save me. has to do nothing to not save me. has to do nothing to not save me. >> And almost nobody believes that today, >> And almost nobody believes that today, >> And almost nobody believes that today, right? right? right? >> No, no true Calvinist believes that. No >> No, no true Calvinist believes that. No >> No, no true Calvinist believes that. No true legit Calvinist, I would argue, true legit Calvinist, I would argue, true legit Calvinist, I would argue, actually believes in what's called actually believes in what's called actually believes in what's called double predestation. Instead, it's double predestation. Instead, it's double predestation. Instead, it's reprobation. The idea of God passively reprobation. The idea of God passively reprobation. The idea of God passively does nothing. Um, I'll get back to like, does nothing. Um, I'll get back to like, does nothing. Um, I'll get back to like, well, why would he? I'll get to that. well, why would he? I'll get to that. well, why would he? I'll get to that. Okay, maybe to give it a different Okay, maybe to give it a different Okay, maybe to give it a different avenue to help get people's minds around avenue to help get people's minds around avenue to help get people's minds around this. And again, I know I'm taking a few this. And again, I know I'm taking a few this. And again, I know I'm taking a few minutes on this. The other should be a minutes on this. The other should be a minutes on this. The other should be a little bit faster. Um, I just know this little bit faster. Um, I just know this little bit faster. Um, I just know this is probably the toughest one for people. is probably the toughest one for people. is probably the toughest one for people. Is God sovereign over the weather? Is God sovereign over the weather? Is God sovereign over the weather? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so, does that mean that if God >> And so, does that mean that if God >> And so, does that mean that if God wanted to change the path of a tornado, wanted to change the path of a tornado, wanted to change the path of a tornado, he can? he can? he can? >> He could. >> He could. >> He could. >> He could. So, let's say, and I'm going >> He could. So, let's say, and I'm going >> He could. So, let's say, and I'm going to have to use a a terrible example just to have to use a a terrible example just to have to use a a terrible example just I'm sorry. So, let's say that there is a I'm sorry. So, let's say that there is a I'm sorry. So, let's say that there is a tornado that takes out unfortunately a tornado that takes out unfortunately a tornado that takes out unfortunately a young family. That's tragedy. And we young family. That's tragedy. And we young family. That's tragedy. And we would say, "Oh, man." Like, that's the would say, "Oh, man." Like, that's the would say, "Oh, man." Like, that's the part of living in a fallen world, right?

part of living in a fallen world, right? part of living in a fallen world, right? So, was God not sovereign over that So, was God not sovereign over that So, was God not sovereign over that tornado? tornado? tornado? >> He's sovereign over everything. >> He's sovereign over everything. >> He's sovereign over everything. >> But would you, Carlos, if you're talking >> But would you, Carlos, if you're talking >> But would you, Carlos, if you're talking to people, would you say, "God sent that to people, would you say, "God sent that to people, would you say, "God sent that tornado to that family to take them tornado to that family to take them tornado to that family to take them out?" out?" out?" >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. Instead, you would use words like, >> No. Instead, you would use words like, >> No. Instead, you would use words like, "He allowed it to happen." Now, that "He allowed it to happen." Now, that "He allowed it to happen." Now, that doesn't mean he's not in control, doesn't mean he's not in control, doesn't mean he's not in control, >> but there's a difference between you >> but there's a difference between you >> but there's a difference between you saying he sent it to do it cuz he saying he sent it to do it cuz he saying he sent it to do it cuz he doesn't like them versus he's in doesn't like them versus he's in doesn't like them versus he's in control, but he allowed it. And we can't control, but he allowed it. And we can't control, but he allowed it. And we can't fully understand it because there's fully understand it because there's fully understand it because there's mystery. But this is where we have to mystery. But this is where we have to mystery. But this is where we have to trust that God is good and he's good trust that God is good and he's good trust that God is good and he's good even if I don't understand him. So, even if I don't understand him. So, even if I don't understand him. So, ultimately, he's sovereign either way, ultimately, he's sovereign either way, ultimately, he's sovereign either way, but there is a big difference between but there is a big difference between but there is a big difference between God when we're talking about God's God when we're talking about God's God when we're talking about God's character between him actively doing character between him actively doing character between him actively doing something harm to someone and him simply something harm to someone and him simply something harm to someone and him simply letting it happen. That's what we're letting it happen. That's what we're letting it happen. That's what we're talking about in this. Again, you may talking about in this. Again, you may talking about in this. Again, you may not agree with me, but here's what I not agree with me, but here's what I not agree with me, but here's what I say. After all that, I know that was a say. After all that, I know that was a say. After all that, I know that was a lot, go to those verses, and there's lot, go to those verses, and there's lot, go to those verses, and there's more, but go to John 6:44, go to Romans more, but go to John 6:44, go to Romans more, but go to John 6:44, go to Romans 9, and simply wrestle with what seems to 9, and simply wrestle with what seems to 9, and simply wrestle with what seems to be a clear indication of what I just be a clear indication of what I just be a clear indication of what I just said. said. said. >> But Paul, uh, that's a that's a great >> But Paul, uh, that's a that's a great >> But Paul, uh, that's a that's a great answer, by the way. Um, but I'm going to answer, by the way. Um, but I'm going to answer, by the way. Um, but I'm going to play the Armenian now, please. Uh, 1 play the Armenian now, please. Uh, 1 play the Armenian now, please. Uh, 1 Timothy 2:3 says, "But God, our savior, Timothy 2:3 says, "But God, our savior, Timothy 2:3 says, "But God, our savior, desires all people to be saved and to desires all people to be saved and to desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

come to the knowledge of the truth." come to the knowledge of the truth." That's what God wants. That's what God wants. That's what God wants. >> Yeah. So then how do [snorts] you put >> Yeah. So then how do [snorts] you put >> Yeah. So then how do [snorts] you put that verse next to what you just said? that verse next to what you just said? that verse next to what you just said? >> Yeah, man. Such a good question because >> Yeah, man. Such a good question because >> Yeah, man. Such a good question because yeah, when you read that you're like, yeah, when you read that you're like, yeah, when you read that you're like, "Well, man, how how do you get around "Well, man, how how do you get around "Well, man, how how do you get around this?" Uh, two things. Number one, I this?" Uh, two things. Number one, I this?" Uh, two things. Number one, I would say, "Well, hey, you and I, I'm would say, "Well, hey, you and I, I'm would say, "Well, hey, you and I, I'm assuming I'm joking around that or I'm, assuming I'm joking around that or I'm, assuming I'm joking around that or I'm, you know, I'm assuming you're an you know, I'm assuming you're an you know, I'm assuming you're an Armenian right now." You and I both have Armenian right now." You and I both have Armenian right now." You and I both have to believe that God desires something to believe that God desires something to believe that God desires something and he doesn't fulfill it. We both have and he doesn't fulfill it. We both have and he doesn't fulfill it. We both have that problem because you think you just that problem because you think you just that problem because you think you just said he desires that all are saved. But said he desires that all are saved. But said he desires that all are saved. But do you believe Carlos all are saved? do you believe Carlos all are saved? do you believe Carlos all are saved? >> No, we're not universalists. >> No, we're not universalists. >> No, we're not universalists. >> No. So you and I both have to say >> No. So you and I both have to say >> No. So you and I both have to say something else overrides that desire. something else overrides that desire. something else overrides that desire. You would say, "Oh, he free will." I You would say, "Oh, he free will." I You would say, "Oh, he free will." I would say no. It's that God has a would say no. It's that God has a would say no. It's that God has a sovereign plan not to would be another sovereign plan not to would be another sovereign plan not to would be another thing. Number two would be this. thing. Number two would be this. thing. Number two would be this. >> Hold on. Let me push back. But he >> Hold on. Let me push back. But he >> Hold on. Let me push back. But he desires everybody to be saved. So you're desires everybody to be saved. So you're desires everybody to be saved. So you're saying he wants something. saying he wants something. saying he wants something. >> In this case, we'd go to Romans 9 where >> In this case, we'd go to Romans 9 where >> In this case, we'd go to Romans 9 where it says that somehow God is glorified it says that somehow God is glorified it says that somehow God is glorified through him carrying out judgment. That through him carrying out judgment. That through him carrying out judgment. That somehow God's glory is shown in a way somehow God's glory is shown in a way somehow God's glory is shown in a way that couldn't have been otherwise. that couldn't have been otherwise. that couldn't have been otherwise. You're like, "Well, how does that make You're like, "Well, how does that make You're like, "Well, how does that make sense?" We'll come back to that a little sense?" We'll come back to that a little sense?" We'll come back to that a little bit with Romans nine maybe and I can bit with Romans nine maybe and I can bit with Romans nine maybe and I can maybe read some verses about when we maybe read some verses about when we maybe read some verses about when we begin questioning God's character in begin questioning God's character in begin questioning God's character in this. Okay.

this. Okay. this. Okay. >> Um but here's >> Um but here's >> Um but here's >> Paul Paul spec the Apostle Paul >> Paul Paul spec the Apostle Paul >> Paul Paul spec the Apostle Paul specifically addresses that. But go specifically addresses that. But go specifically addresses that. But go ahead. ahead. ahead. >> Yeah. And maybe I should go ahead in a >> Yeah. And maybe I should go ahead in a >> Yeah. And maybe I should go ahead in a second and get to it because it just in second and get to it because it just in second and get to it because it just in case we forget to. Okay. But the second case we forget to. Okay. But the second case we forget to. Okay. But the second thing I'd say is this. It does say that thing I'd say is this. It does say that thing I'd say is this. It does say that in in in first Timothy. Okay. In second in in in first Timothy. Okay. In second in in in first Timothy. Okay. In second Timothy it says that man we should be Timothy it says that man we should be Timothy it says that man we should be patient in teaching with people because patient in teaching with people because patient in teaching with people because God may grant them repentance leading God may grant them repentance leading God may grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth. Almost them to a knowledge of the truth. Almost them to a knowledge of the truth. Almost the exact same phrasing in the first the exact same phrasing in the first the exact same phrasing in the first one. Interesting. one. Interesting. one. Interesting. >> So I would say, "Hey, Carlos, so if it >> So I would say, "Hey, Carlos, so if it >> So I would say, "Hey, Carlos, so if it says that God desires all to be saved says that God desires all to be saved says that God desires all to be saved and that he can grant them repentance to and that he can grant them repentance to and that he can grant them repentance to be saved, why doesn't he grant it to be saved, why doesn't he grant it to be saved, why doesn't he grant it to everybody?" everybody?" everybody?" >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, no. Like why? >> Well, no. Like why? >> Well, no. Like why? >> Oh, you're asking me? Yeah, ma'am. I'm >> Oh, you're asking me? Yeah, ma'am. I'm >> Oh, you're asking me? Yeah, ma'am. I'm responding in Armenian. responding in Armenian. responding in Armenian. >> But like why? >> But like why? >> But like why? >> Because free will. >> Because free will. >> Because free will. >> Well, but he says that he can grant them >> Well, but he says that he can grant them >> Well, but he says that he can grant them repentance. It says that in second repentance. It says that in second repentance. It says that in second Timothy 2. He says he may grant Timothy 2. He says he may grant Timothy 2. He says he may grant >> He grants repentance that he may trust >> He grants repentance that he may trust >> He grants repentance that he may trust in him. Well, but that's but he says he in him. Well, but that's but he says he in him. Well, but that's but he says he may grant repentance that he has to may grant repentance that he has to may grant repentance that he has to grant it to him before they do choose grant it to him before they do choose grant it to him before they do choose them. So like explain that to me of how them. So like explain that to me of how them. So like explain that to me of how >> before they choose him. >> before they choose him. >> before they choose him. >> Well, yeah. If he if he grants you >> Well, yeah. If he if he grants you >> Well, yeah. If he if he grants you repentance, then that's something he has repentance, then that's something he has repentance, then that's something he has to give to you before you can actually to give to you before you can actually to give to you before you can actually >> his forn knowledge. He knows who's going >> his forn knowledge. He knows who's going >> his forn knowledge. He knows who's going to trust in him. So he just kind of sees to trust in him. So he just kind of sees to trust in him. So he just kind of sees ahead quote unquote ahead and foresees ahead quote unquote ahead and foresees ahead quote unquote ahead and foresees that he would grant you the ability to that he would grant you the ability to that he would grant you the ability to choose him.

choose him. choose him. >> He foresees that somebody would choose >> He foresees that somebody would choose >> He foresees that somebody would choose [laughter] him at some point. So he [laughter] him at some point. So he [laughter] him at some point. So he grants repentance to those who choose grants repentance to those who choose grants repentance to those who choose >> him. And my point in doing this so we >> him. And my point in doing this so we >> him. And my point in doing this so we don't lose too many people on this right don't lose too many people on this right don't lose too many people on this right now is this. I'm in the Armenian. So, now is this. I'm in the Armenian. So, now is this. I'm in the Armenian. So, I'm just I'm just I'm just >> is what I'm trying to show you is that >> is what I'm trying to show you is that >> is what I'm trying to show you is that for each of these questions, there's for each of these questions, there's for each of these questions, there's verses like these and there's thoughts verses like these and there's thoughts verses like these and there's thoughts like these that introduce tensions that like these that introduce tensions that like these that introduce tensions that we have to hold together. First Timothy we have to hold together. First Timothy we have to hold together. First Timothy does say that, but then if you're a does say that, but then if you're a does say that, but then if you're a minion and I say, "Well, hey, it says minion and I say, "Well, hey, it says minion and I say, "Well, hey, it says almost the exact same phrasing, but it almost the exact same phrasing, but it almost the exact same phrasing, but it talks about granting repentance. Why talks about granting repentance. Why talks about granting repentance. Why doesn't he grant it to everybody? You doesn't he grant it to everybody? You doesn't he grant it to everybody? You then have to answer that question." And then have to answer that question." And then have to answer that question." And by the way, the tension I have to figure by the way, the tension I have to figure by the way, the tension I have to figure out is first Timothy. So, it's not that out is first Timothy. So, it's not that out is first Timothy. So, it's not that one of us hasn't gets to forget it. We one of us hasn't gets to forget it. We one of us hasn't gets to forget it. We both have to hold that together. As both have to hold that together. As both have to hold that together. As we're talking about this, one thing I we're talking about this, one thing I we're talking about this, one thing I would interject in case you're beginning would interject in case you're beginning would interject in case you're beginning to feel this or think this in your mind, to feel this or think this in your mind, to feel this or think this in your mind, even if you don't agree with the even if you don't agree with the even if you don't agree with the perspective I'm I'm putting out there, perspective I'm I'm putting out there, perspective I'm I'm putting out there, is you may be thinking, "Oh, God would is you may be thinking, "Oh, God would is you may be thinking, "Oh, God would have no right. He does." No, that's have no right. He does." No, that's have no right. He does." No, that's terrible. terrible. terrible. >> He He doesn't get to do that. >> He He doesn't get to do that. >> He He doesn't get to do that. >> Um, he has no right to do that. You got >> Um, he has no right to do that. You got >> Um, he has no right to do that. You got to be really careful when you say that to be really careful when you say that to be really careful when you say that because when the Apostle Paul is uh because when the Apostle Paul is uh because when the Apostle Paul is uh making basically the same argument in making basically the same argument in making basically the same argument in Romans 9, he's imagining this opponent Romans 9, he's imagining this opponent Romans 9, he's imagining this opponent kind of like you're my opponent right kind of like you're my opponent right kind of like you're my opponent right now. He's an imagining opponent. And the now. He's an imagining opponent. And the now. He's an imagining opponent. And the apostle Paul says in Romans 9:19, why apostle Paul says in Romans 9:19, why apostle Paul says in Romans 9:19, why does he still find fault? Well, hey, if does he still find fault? Well, hey, if does he still find fault? Well, hey, if he has decided these things, then why he has decided these things, then why he has decided these things, then why does he hold people accountable for does he hold people accountable for does he hold people accountable for things for these things? Why does he things for these things? Why does he things for these things? Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his still find fault? For who can resist his still find fault? For who can resist his will? By the way, would this ever be an will? By the way, would this ever be an will? By the way, would this ever be an accuse of an of an Armenian? That verse?

accuse of an of an Armenian? That verse? accuse of an of an Armenian? That verse? >> Who would ever resist his will? >> Who would ever resist his will? >> Who would ever resist his will? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, >> I mean, >> I mean, >> no. An Armenian would never be accused >> no. An Armenian would never be accused >> no. An Armenian would never be accused of this. Only a Calvinist. of this. Only a Calvinist. of this. Only a Calvinist. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> Little point I'm trying to make right >> Little point I'm trying to make right >> Little point I'm trying to make right there. there. there. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> But then here's Paul's response. Who are >> But then here's Paul's response. Who are >> But then here's Paul's response. Who are you, oh man, to answer back to God? you, oh man, to answer back to God? you, oh man, to answer back to God? Well, what is molded? Say to the mortar, Well, what is molded? Say to the mortar, Well, what is molded? Say to the mortar, why have you made me like this? Has the why have you made me like this? Has the why have you made me like this? Has the potter no right over the clay to make potter no right over the clay to make potter no right over the clay to make out of the same lump one vessel for out of the same lump one vessel for out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for honorable use and another for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? dishonorable use? dishonorable use? >> Here's what I say is even if you can't >> Here's what I say is even if you can't >> Here's what I say is even if you can't accept the viewpoint that I'm espousing, accept the viewpoint that I'm espousing, accept the viewpoint that I'm espousing, >> be very careful not to get to a place >> be very careful not to get to a place >> be very careful not to get to a place where you say things like, "God would where you say things like, "God would where you say things like, "God would have no right." The response is saying, have no right." The response is saying, have no right." The response is saying, "Hey, dude, you are not God. "Hey, dude, you are not God. "Hey, dude, you are not God. >> God can do whatever he wants. You may >> God can do whatever he wants. You may >> God can do whatever he wants. You may not agree with me that God wants to do not agree with me that God wants to do not agree with me that God wants to do the things I'm saying, but you have to the things I'm saying, but you have to the things I'm saying, but you have to at least say God could if you wanted to. at least say God could if you wanted to. at least say God could if you wanted to. All right, next question. I know we're All right, next question. I know we're All right, next question. I know we're we're starting. we're starting. we're starting. >> Yeah, we're uh we're almost there. >> Yeah, we're uh we're almost there. >> Yeah, we're uh we're almost there. >> Uh okay, so some this was I don't even >> Uh okay, so some this was I don't even >> Uh okay, so some this was I don't even know if I should go here because it's uh know if I should go here because it's uh know if I should go here because it's uh uh it's going to open up another uh it's going to open up another uh it's going to open up another conversation here. Um conversation here. Um conversation here. Um did Jesus die for everybody then? If uh did Jesus die for everybody then? If uh did Jesus die for everybody then? If uh if only if he knew he was going to if only if he knew he was going to if only if he knew he was going to choose only some then how does that choose only some then how does that choose only some then how does that apply to what Jesus accomplished at the apply to what Jesus accomplished at the apply to what Jesus accomplished at the cross? Was it just for a limited and by cross? Was it just for a limited and by cross? Was it just for a limited and by the way this is uh for people wondering the way this is uh for people wondering the way this is uh for people wondering this is a third I believe this is a this is a third I believe this is a this is a third I believe this is a third point of Calvinism.

third point of Calvinism. third point of Calvinism. >> Yeah. So there's what's called tulip. So >> Yeah. So there's what's called tulip. So >> Yeah. So there's what's called tulip. So people sometimes talk about the five people sometimes talk about the five people sometimes talk about the five points of Calvinism. You got total points of Calvinism. You got total points of Calvinism. You got total depravity. depravity. depravity. >> Um you've got unlimit I mean sorry >> Um you've got unlimit I mean sorry >> Um you've got unlimit I mean sorry you've got unconditional election you've got unconditional election you've got unconditional election limited atonement irresistible grace and limited atonement irresistible grace and limited atonement irresistible grace and perseverance of the saint. So limited perseverance of the saint. So limited perseverance of the saint. So limited atonement, it's a fancy phrase, but atonement, it's a fancy phrase, but atonement, it's a fancy phrase, but basically it means that, basically it means that, basically it means that, >> and I don't like the phrase limited >> and I don't like the phrase limited >> and I don't like the phrase limited atonement. I don't I don't use that atonement. I don't I don't use that atonement. I don't I don't use that phrase, but the idea of God, some people phrase, but the idea of God, some people phrase, but the idea of God, some people say, "Oh, God only died for the elect, say, "Oh, God only died for the elect, say, "Oh, God only died for the elect, for those he chose before the creation for those he chose before the creation for those he chose before the creation of the world." Is that really what you of the world." Is that really what you of the world." Is that really what you want to ask me? Did did Jesus really want to ask me? Did did Jesus really want to ask me? Did did Jesus really only die for a few people? Did he not only die for a few people? Did he not only die for a few people? Did he not just die for everybody? Let's just cut just die for everybody? Let's just cut just die for everybody? Let's just cut to the chase. to the chase. to the chase. >> Did Jesus only die for a few people that >> Did Jesus only die for a few people that >> Did Jesus only die for a few people that he would be electing? he would be electing? he would be electing? >> So, let me let me say the short phrase >> So, let me let me say the short phrase >> So, let me let me say the short phrase and then let me unpack it. short phrase and then let me unpack it. short phrase and then let me unpack it. short phrase is God. Jesus died for everybody is God. Jesus died for everybody is God. Jesus died for everybody sufficiently, but he only died for the sufficiently, but he only died for the sufficiently, but he only died for the elect or the chosen efficiently. Okay, I elect or the chosen efficiently. Okay, I elect or the chosen efficiently. Okay, I know that's a that's a bloated phrase. know that's a that's a bloated phrase. know that's a that's a bloated phrase. I'm going to say it again. Jesus Christ I'm going to say it again. Jesus Christ I'm going to say it again. Jesus Christ died for everybody sufficiently. I'll died for everybody sufficiently. I'll died for everybody sufficiently. I'll stop here and say his death is stop here and say his death is stop here and say his death is sufficient for anyone who would repent sufficient for anyone who would repent sufficient for anyone who would repent and place their faith in him. and place their faith in him. and place their faith in him. >> Okay? >> Okay? >> Okay? >> Anyone in the world, anybody and >> Anyone in the world, anybody and >> Anyone in the world, anybody and everybody.

everybody. everybody. >> Okay? >> Okay? >> Okay? >> But it is effective for only those that >> But it is effective for only those that >> But it is effective for only those that he chose. Meaning it and let me put it a he chose. Meaning it and let me put it a he chose. Meaning it and let me put it a different way. His death doesn't make different way. His death doesn't make different way. His death doesn't make something accomplishable. It something accomplishable. It something accomplishable. It accomplishes something. Because if accomplishes something. Because if accomplishes something. Because if you're from an Armenian perspective, you you're from an Armenian perspective, you you're from an Armenian perspective, you can't actually say it accomplish can't actually say it accomplish can't actually say it accomplish something. You have to say it made it something. You have to say it made it something. You have to say it made it accomplishable. accomplishable. accomplishable. Because or maybe put a different way. Because or maybe put a different way. Because or maybe put a different way. Did Jesus Christ from an Armenian Did Jesus Christ from an Armenian Did Jesus Christ from an Armenian perspective if you believe that you have perspective if you believe that you have perspective if you believe that you have to choose him before he chooses you? Did to choose him before he chooses you? Did to choose him before he chooses you? Did he um save you on the cross or did he he um save you on the cross or did he he um save you on the cross or did he make you savable? make you savable? make you savable? >> He saved us on the cross. >> He saved us on the cross. >> He saved us on the cross. >> Well, if you're from an Armenian >> Well, if you're from an Armenian >> Well, if you're from an Armenian perspective, you have to make you say, perspective, you have to make you say, perspective, you have to make you say, "I am savable." "I am savable." "I am savable." >> Oh, yeah. That's right. That's right. >> Oh, yeah. That's right. That's right. >> Oh, yeah. That's right. That's right. The difference is so a Calvinist is more The difference is so a Calvinist is more The difference is so a Calvinist is more going to say, "No, no, he actually did going to say, "No, no, he actually did going to say, "No, no, he actually did something on the cross." And by the way, something on the cross." And by the way, something on the cross." And by the way, we have verses to back this up. In Acts we have verses to back this up. In Acts we have verses to back this up. In Acts chapter 20, it said that God purchased chapter 20, it said that God purchased chapter 20, it said that God purchased his bride, the church, his bride, the church, his bride, the church, >> with his own blood. >> with his own blood. >> with his own blood. >> It wasn't a hypothetical. >> It wasn't a hypothetical. >> It wasn't a hypothetical. >> No, it didn't say he made him purchase a >> No, it didn't say he made him purchase a >> No, it didn't say he made him purchase a bull. It said he actually accomplished bull. It said he actually accomplished bull. It said he actually accomplished something. He did something. But let me something. He did something. But let me something. He did something. But let me speak to the real issue that a lot of speak to the real issue that a lot of speak to the real issue that a lot of people wrestle with this. And again, I people wrestle with this. And again, I people wrestle with this. And again, I don't use the phrase limited atonement. don't use the phrase limited atonement. don't use the phrase limited atonement. I like to think of definite atonement or I like to think of definite atonement or I like to think of definite atonement or specifically he accomplished something specifically he accomplished something specifically he accomplished something with it. Because here here's what I like with it. Because here here's what I like with it. Because here here's what I like to say is to say is to say is >> using more the idea of love. Um, do are >> using more the idea of love. Um, do are >> using more the idea of love. Um, do are we called to love everybody?

we called to love everybody? we called to love everybody? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Am I called to love my wife and my kids >> Am I called to love my wife and my kids >> Am I called to love my wife and my kids in the same way that I love everybody? in the same way that I love everybody? in the same way that I love everybody? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. I'm actually called to have a >> No. I'm actually called to have a >> No. I'm actually called to have a special kind of love. And here's what I special kind of love. And here's what I special kind of love. And here's what I say is God does love the whole world and say is God does love the whole world and say is God does love the whole world and every person in the world. every person in the world. every person in the world. >> And Jesus's death is for everybody and >> And Jesus's death is for everybody and >> And Jesus's death is for everybody and that it is sufficient for everybody in that it is sufficient for everybody in that it is sufficient for everybody in the world. But for his church, for his the world. But for his church, for his the world. But for his church, for his bride, for his people, he loves us in a bride, for his people, he loves us in a bride, for his people, he loves us in a special way that he doesn't love special way that he doesn't love special way that he doesn't love everybody else. And that doesn't mean he everybody else. And that doesn't mean he everybody else. And that doesn't mean he doesn't love everybody else, but it's doesn't love everybody else, but it's doesn't love everybody else, but it's the same thing of saying, "Hey, I love the same thing of saying, "Hey, I love the same thing of saying, "Hey, I love my wife in a special way." He loves his my wife in a special way." He loves his my wife in a special way." He loves his bride, his wife, the church, in a bride, his wife, the church, in a bride, his wife, the church, in a special way. And what he did on the special way. And what he did on the special way. And what he did on the cross did something for them that it cross did something for them that it cross did something for them that it didn't do for everybody. And here's what didn't do for everybody. And here's what didn't do for everybody. And here's what an Armenian has to believe this. And an Armenian has to believe this. And an Armenian has to believe this. And here's why. Is if you say, "No, it is here's why. Is if you say, "No, it is here's why. Is if you say, "No, it is for everybody in the same way, then for everybody in the same way, then for everybody in the same way, then everybody would have to be saved." everybody would have to be saved." everybody would have to be saved." >> That's right. That's right. >> That's right. That's right. >> That's right. That's right. >> Because if he paid for everybody's sins >> Because if he paid for everybody's sins >> Because if he paid for everybody's sins in the same way, why would God punish in the same way, why would God punish in the same way, why would God punish the same sins twice? the same sins twice? the same sins twice? >> There you go. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> So, yeah. >> So, yeah. >> So, yeah. >> Yeah. And let me let me add to that. let >> Yeah. And let me let me add to that. let >> Yeah. And let me let me add to that. let me take off my Armenian hat and put on a me take off my Armenian hat and put on a me take off my Armenian hat and put on a covenants or I guess the uh the other covenants or I guess the uh the other covenants or I guess the uh the other one the reformed one. Um and again that one the reformed one. Um and again that one the reformed one. Um and again that does not take away from the fact that we does not take away from the fact that we does not take away from the fact that we all have responsibility to either again all have responsibility to either again all have responsibility to either again when we reject God or when we run when we reject God or when we run when we reject God or when we run towards him it does not take away human towards him it does not take away human towards him it does not take away human responsibility from the equation at the responsibility from the equation at the responsibility from the equation at the end of the day.

end of the day. end of the day. No, No, No, >> that's all again as you say everything >> that's all again as you say everything >> that's all again as you say everything you said which I agree with we still you said which I agree with we still you said which I agree with we still affirm the fact that every single person affirm the fact that every single person affirm the fact that every single person is still responsible for is still responsible for is still responsible for >> 100% and because of that we should share >> 100% and because of that we should share >> 100% and because of that we should share the gospel with them you know I quoted the gospel with them you know I quoted the gospel with them you know I quoted some of Romans nine there's so much some of Romans nine there's so much some of Romans nine there's so much there but what comes after Romans 9 is I there but what comes after Romans 9 is I there but what comes after Romans 9 is I know you could make a joke at my expense know you could make a joke at my expense know you could make a joke at my expense but please don't is Romans 10 is Romans but please don't is Romans 10 is Romans but please don't is Romans 10 is Romans 10 that's exactly what I thought 10 that's exactly what I thought 10 that's exactly what I thought >> and in Romans 10 is where the verse is >> and in Romans 10 is where the verse is >> and in Romans 10 is where the verse is where it talks about man how will they where it talks about man how will they where it talks about man how will they believe unless the gospel is preached to believe unless the gospel is preached to believe unless the gospel is preached to them and unless someone is sent and then them and unless someone is sent and then them and unless someone is sent and then it says that anyone who calls on the it says that anyone who calls on the it says that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Anyone. name of the Lord will be saved. Anyone. name of the Lord will be saved. Anyone. So you get those backto back. You get So you get those backto back. You get So you get those backto back. You get this idea that God is sovereignly in this idea that God is sovereignly in this idea that God is sovereignly in control in Romans 9. And we should go control in Romans 9. And we should go control in Romans 9. And we should go and give the gospel to people and that and give the gospel to people and that and give the gospel to people and that if anyone believes they will and can't if anyone believes they will and can't if anyone believes they will and can't they can and will be saved. We got to they can and will be saved. We got to they can and will be saved. We got to keep both together. You want to do some keep both together. You want to do some keep both together. You want to do some of the videos for fun? of the videos for fun? of the videos for fun? >> We got time for like one maybe. You want >> We got time for like one maybe. You want >> We got time for like one maybe. You want to pick one? to pick one? to pick one? >> I have a feeling you're about Are you >> I have a feeling you're about Are you >> I have a feeling you're about Are you about to pit me against a friend? about to pit me against a friend? about to pit me against a friend? >> I would love that. >> I would love that. >> I would love that. >> How dare you. >> How dare you. >> How dare you. >> Shout out to Frank Turk. >> Shout out to Frank Turk. >> Shout out to Frank Turk. >> Oh goodness. Frank. >> Oh goodness. Frank. >> Oh goodness. Frank. >> Frank. He's listening by the way. I >> Frank. He's listening by the way. I >> Frank. He's listening by the way. I know. Uh, I know Frank and he's already know. Uh, I know Frank and he's already know. Uh, I know Frank and he's already gotten mad. He's probably already texted gotten mad. He's probably already texted gotten mad. He's probably already texted me five or six text messages at this me five or six text messages at this me five or six text messages at this point after after listening to this point after after listening to this point after after listening to this because he'll text frequently on the because he'll text frequently on the because he'll text frequently on the podcast. Um, podcast. Um, podcast. Um, >> Frank here, let me let me hand. Hey, >> Frank here, let me let me hand. Hey, >> Frank here, let me let me hand. Hey, Frank. Uh, Paul completely disagrees Frank. Uh, Paul completely disagrees Frank. Uh, Paul completely disagrees with you and he [laughter] wants to with you and he [laughter] wants to with you and he [laughter] wants to crush you uh irresponsibly here uh in on crush you uh irresponsibly here uh in on crush you uh irresponsibly here uh in on the podcast. So, we got a video. We'll the podcast. So, we got a video. We'll the podcast. So, we got a video. We'll play it. It's literally a minute and play it. It's literally a minute and play it. It's literally a minute and then uh Paul, you tell Frank why you then uh Paul, you tell Frank why you then uh Paul, you tell Frank why you think he's wrong and then uh and then think he's wrong and then uh and then think he's wrong and then uh and then we're going to wrap it up.

we're going to wrap it up. we're going to wrap it up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Let's play over here. >> Let's play over here. >> Let's play over here. >> My in-laws are Calvinist. I want to know >> My in-laws are Calvinist. I want to know >> My in-laws are Calvinist. I want to know what the main out of the five points, what the main out of the five points, what the main out of the five points, what is the main thing that's what is the main thing that's what is the main thing that's for lack of a better term wrong? What's for lack of a better term wrong? What's for lack of a better term wrong? What's wrong about Calvinism? wrong about Calvinism? wrong about Calvinism? >> See, the the ultimate problem with >> See, the the ultimate problem with >> See, the the ultimate problem with Calvinism, hard five point Calvinism in Calvinism, hard five point Calvinism in Calvinism, hard five point Calvinism in my view, [music] my view, [music] my view, [music] >> is it makes the world a sham because we >> is it makes the world a sham because we >> is it makes the world a sham because we really don't have a free choice, but God really don't have a free choice, but God really don't have a free choice, but God is telling us that we ought to choose is telling us that we ought to choose is telling us that we ought to choose him. We can't choose him because he him. We can't choose him because he him. We can't choose him because he [music] hasn't chosen us at all. [music] hasn't chosen us at all. [music] hasn't chosen us at all. >> And secondly, it makes God the author of >> And secondly, it makes God the author of >> And secondly, it makes God the author of evil. In fact, let me give [music] you a evil. In fact, let me give [music] you a evil. In fact, let me give [music] you a in a debate that took place 40 years ago in a debate that took place 40 years ago in a debate that took place 40 years ago at Dallas Theological Seminary. It was at Dallas Theological Seminary. It was at Dallas Theological Seminary. It was between Norman Gistler, my mentor, and a between Norman Gistler, my mentor, and a between Norman Gistler, my mentor, and a guy by the name of John Gersonner. And guy by the name of John Gersonner. And guy by the name of John Gersonner. And at one point, Gistler turned to at one point, Gistler turned to at one point, Gistler turned to Gersonner [music] and he says, he said, Gersonner [music] and he says, he said, Gersonner [music] and he says, he said, "Does man have free will?" And Gersner "Does man have free will?" And Gersner "Does man have free will?" And Gersner said, "Yes, man has free will to do what said, "Yes, man has free will to do what said, "Yes, man has free will to do what he desires, but God gives him the desire he desires, but God gives him the desire he desires, but God gives him the desire of his heart." So Gistler said, "Who of his heart." So Gistler said, "Who of his heart." So Gistler said, "Who gave Adam the desire to sin?" [music] gave Adam the desire to sin?" [music] gave Adam the desire to sin?" [music] And Gersner said, "Mistry." And Gersner said, "Mistry." And Gersner said, "Mistry." And Gistler said, "Contradiction."

And Gistler said, "Contradiction." And Gistler said, "Contradiction." >> Listen, this is kind of dirty, man. I >> Listen, this is kind of dirty, man. I >> Listen, this is kind of dirty, man. I love Frank and you like sent me, you love Frank and you like sent me, you love Frank and you like sent me, you know, you're like, "Oh, I'm going to use know, you're like, "Oh, I'm going to use know, you're like, "Oh, I'm going to use this video." Like I feel like this is an this video." Like I feel like this is an this video." Like I feel like this is an ambush. Like I kind of feel like this is ambush. Like I kind of feel like this is ambush. Like I kind of feel like this is WWE wrestling where he's Frank's going WWE wrestling where he's Frank's going WWE wrestling where he's Frank's going to like come from behind the curtain to like come from behind the curtain to like come from behind the curtain with a steel chair and like with a steel chair and like with a steel chair and like theologically wise again. Frank, like theologically wise again. Frank, like theologically wise again. Frank, like >> he'll be back to the pot at some point. >> he'll be back to the pot at some point. >> he'll be back to the pot at some point. >> Frank, if you're listening to this, and >> Frank, if you're listening to this, and >> Frank, if you're listening to this, and I know you probably will. Number one, I I know you probably will. Number one, I I know you probably will. Number one, I hope the first thing you say in your hope the first thing you say in your hope the first thing you say in your text is, "Paul, I still love you." And text is, "Paul, I still love you." And text is, "Paul, I still love you." And and then he will probably give me five and then he will probably give me five and then he will probably give me five reasons why I'm wrong. And probably reasons why I'm wrong. And probably reasons why I'm wrong. And probably he'll he'll you know he probably will be he'll he'll you know he probably will be he'll he'll you know he probably will be right and convince me I'm wrong. right and convince me I'm wrong. right and convince me I'm wrong. >> He doesn't have enough faith to believe >> He doesn't have enough faith to believe >> He doesn't have enough faith to believe what you believe about. He what you believe about. He what you believe about. He >> doesn't [laughter] have enough faith to >> doesn't [laughter] have enough faith to >> doesn't [laughter] have enough faith to be a Calvinist. be a Calvinist. be a Calvinist. >> That's a joke. That's a joke. >> That's a joke. That's a joke. >> That's a joke. That's a joke. >> That's an inside Frank. That's an inside >> That's an inside Frank. That's an inside >> That's an inside Frank. That's an inside Frank joke. Listen, Frank's amazing. So, Frank joke. Listen, Frank's amazing. So, Frank joke. Listen, Frank's amazing. So, let me let me do two things here. Like, let me let me do two things here. Like, let me let me do two things here. Like, and honestly, if Frank were here with and honestly, if Frank were here with and honestly, if Frank were here with us, uh I would probably even do what I'm us, uh I would probably even do what I'm us, uh I would probably even do what I'm about to do. First, let me go to I'll about to do. First, let me go to I'll about to do. First, let me go to I'll address Gser's thing. It really wasn't address Gser's thing. It really wasn't address Gser's thing. It really wasn't Frank's. He quoted Gser. And I'll Frank's. He quoted Gser. And I'll Frank's. He quoted Gser. And I'll address that here in a second. Uh let me address that here in a second. Uh let me address that here in a second. Uh let me first address though a verse that I first address though a verse that I first address though a verse that I would give to Frank and say, "Okay, would give to Frank and say, "Okay, would give to Frank and say, "Okay, Frank, as you talked about, oh, it makes Frank, as you talked about, oh, it makes Frank, as you talked about, oh, it makes it a sham. um they don't actually make it a sham. um they don't actually make it a sham. um they don't actually make their own choices and stuff like that. I their own choices and stuff like that. I their own choices and stuff like that. I say, "Hey, Frank, what do you do with 2 say, "Hey, Frank, what do you do with 2 say, "Hey, Frank, what do you do with 2 Samuel 24, which 2 Samuel 24 is where Samuel 24, which 2 Samuel 24 is where Samuel 24, which 2 Samuel 24 is where David takes a census David takes a census David takes a census >> and he is punished for it.

>> and he is punished for it. >> and he is punished for it. >> He's punished for it." But it says in 2 >> He's punished for it." But it says in 2 >> He's punished for it." But it says in 2 Samuel 24:1 again the anger of the Lord Samuel 24:1 again the anger of the Lord Samuel 24:1 again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel and he was kindled against Israel and he was kindled against Israel and he incited David against them saying, "Go incited David against them saying, "Go incited David against them saying, "Go number Israel and Judah." But and then number Israel and Judah." But and then number Israel and Judah." But and then so he incites David to do this and then so he incites David to do this and then so he incites David to do this and then David does it in verse 10 it says David does it in verse 10 it says David does it in verse 10 it says David's heart struck him after he had David's heart struck him after he had David's heart struck him after he had numbered the people and David said to numbered the people and David said to numbered the people and David said to the Lord I have sinned greatly in what I the Lord I have sinned greatly in what I the Lord I have sinned greatly in what I have done have done have done >> and then he's punished for it. >> and then he's punished for it. >> and then he's punished for it. >> So like right there I say hey it seems >> So like right there I say hey it seems >> So like right there I say hey it seems like it says God incited him to do this like it says God incited him to do this like it says God incited him to do this thing. David did it. David takes thing. David did it. David takes thing. David did it. David takes responsibility for it and then is responsibility for it and then is responsibility for it and then is punished for it. punished for it. punished for it. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, how is God not unjust in that So, how is God not unjust in that So, how is God not unjust in that perspective? perspective? perspective? >> This is a hard one honestly for people >> This is a hard one honestly for people >> This is a hard one honestly for people from Frank's position. I love Frank. from Frank's position. I love Frank. from Frank's position. I love Frank. This is a hard one because I would argue This is a hard one because I would argue This is a hard one because I would argue that I'm like, "Hey, like right here if that I'm like, "Hey, like right here if that I'm like, "Hey, like right here if you're basically tell me because I think you're basically tell me because I think you're basically tell me because I think what Frank would say is it's a what Frank would say is it's a what Frank would say is it's a shameless." He'd say it would be unjust shameless." He'd say it would be unjust shameless." He'd say it would be unjust for God to punish people for things they for God to punish people for things they for God to punish people for things they had no choice in. If they didn't if the had no choice in. If they didn't if the had no choice in. If they didn't if the desire didn't originate within them, but desire didn't originate within them, but desire didn't originate within them, but from God. And I'd say, "So, here you got from God. And I'd say, "So, here you got from God. And I'd say, "So, here you got a few choices. One would be that God, a few choices. One would be that God, a few choices. One would be that God, oh, he usually doesn't work like this.

oh, he usually doesn't work like this. oh, he usually doesn't work like this. This was an exception. The problem there This was an exception. The problem there This was an exception. The problem there is if you say God is unjust to work like is if you say God is unjust to work like is if you say God is unjust to work like this, you would have to say God is only this, you would have to say God is only this, you would have to say God is only unjust part of the time. unjust part of the time. unjust part of the time. >> That's >> That's >> That's >> that's not a great option. >> that's not a great option. >> that's not a great option. >> So a second option and I'm sure again >> So a second option and I'm sure again >> So a second option and I'm sure again like we'd say hey like one option would like we'd say hey like one option would like we'd say hey like one option would be hey we can't fully explain it but in be hey we can't fully explain it but in be hey we can't fully explain it but in the same way that when um David wrote the same way that when um David wrote the same way that when um David wrote the Psalms, David wrote everything he the Psalms, David wrote everything he the Psalms, David wrote everything he wanted to write and yet the Holy Spirit wanted to write and yet the Holy Spirit wanted to write and yet the Holy Spirit inspired him. So David wrote everything inspired him. So David wrote everything inspired him. So David wrote everything God wanted him to say at the same time God wanted him to say at the same time God wanted him to say at the same time and those don't contradict. and those don't contradict. and those don't contradict. >> Here the way that God incited him is he >> Here the way that God incited him is he >> Here the way that God incited him is he somehow worked through his desires. And somehow worked through his desires. And somehow worked through his desires. And actually in the other passage where this actually in the other passage where this actually in the other passage where this says the same thing, it says God incited says the same thing, it says God incited says the same thing, it says God incited I mean sorry it says Satan incited I mean sorry it says Satan incited I mean sorry it says Satan incited David. So the idea of God even David. So the idea of God even David. So the idea of God even potentially worked through like worked potentially worked through like worked potentially worked through like worked through Satan to somehow do but in a way through Satan to somehow do but in a way through Satan to somehow do but in a way that does not make God the author of that does not make God the author of that does not make God the author of evil because you wouldn't hear well evil because you wouldn't hear well evil because you wouldn't hear well Frank wouldn't want to make God the Frank wouldn't want to make God the Frank wouldn't want to make God the author of evil here. So somehow we'd author of evil here. So somehow we'd author of evil here. So somehow we'd have to say somehow David did what he have to say somehow David did what he have to say somehow David did what he wanted to do while also doing what God wanted to do while also doing what God wanted to do while also doing what God wanted to do. You follow me? And if wanted to do. You follow me? And if wanted to do. You follow me? And if Frank agreed with that say Frank that's Frank agreed with that say Frank that's Frank agreed with that say Frank that's exactly what I believe. We believe the exactly what I believe. We believe the exactly what I believe. We believe the same thing. Whereas we would say this same thing. Whereas we would say this same thing. Whereas we would say this isn't just true here. It's true isn't just true here. It's true isn't just true here. It's true everywhere all the time. First thing I everywhere all the time. First thing I everywhere all the time. First thing I would say to him, I know that was a lot, would say to him, I know that was a lot, would say to him, I know that was a lot, but it's it's it's it's necessary to but it's it's it's it's necessary to but it's it's it's it's necessary to kind of get into the weeds on the thing.

kind of get into the weeds on the thing. kind of get into the weeds on the thing. >> Um on Gistler on Gistler's thing, what >> Um on Gistler on Gistler's thing, what >> Um on Gistler on Gistler's thing, what Gistler is pointing to is that there is Gistler is pointing to is that there is Gistler is pointing to is that there is a mystery for Calvinists. And here's how a mystery for Calvinists. And here's how a mystery for Calvinists. And here's how I like to tell people for a Calvinist, I like to tell people for a Calvinist, I like to tell people for a Calvinist, the mystery is in the past. For an the mystery is in the past. For an the mystery is in the past. For an Armenian, the mystery is in the future. Armenian, the mystery is in the future. Armenian, the mystery is in the future. Here's what I mean. There is a bit of Here's what I mean. There is a bit of Here's what I mean. There is a bit of mystery of h how can God not be the mystery of h how can God not be the mystery of h how can God not be the author of evil and do evil? If so, how author of evil and do evil? If so, how author of evil and do evil? If so, how how some God if somehow God initiated how some God if somehow God initiated how some God if somehow God initiated the plan that would involve sin and the plan that would involve sin and the plan that would involve sin and somehow had to work through desires of somehow had to work through desires of somehow had to work through desires of how can God and that is a mystery we how can God and that is a mystery we how can God and that is a mystery we there are some answers out there we there are some answers out there we there are some answers out there we don't have time for them today but still don't have time for them today but still don't have time for them today but still there is a place where we do have to there is a place where we do have to there is a place where we do have to play the mystery card I always tell play the mystery card I always tell play the mystery card I always tell people like you're going to have to play people like you're going to have to play people like you're going to have to play a mystery card somewhere just like an a mystery card somewhere just like an a mystery card somewhere just like an ace of spades really try to save it till ace of spades really try to save it till ace of spades really try to save it till the end when you absolutely need it the end when you absolutely need it the end when you absolutely need it >> but I'd say if if I forget Frank for a >> but I'd say if if I forget Frank for a >> but I'd say if if I forget Frank for a second if if Norman were here God rest second if if Norman were here God rest second if if Norman were here God rest his so brilliant man by the way love a his so brilliant man by the way love a his so brilliant man by the way love a lot of Norman stuff I'd say hey hey lot of Norman stuff I'd say hey hey lot of Norman stuff I'd say hey hey Norman if I understand you correct Norman if I understand you correct Norman if I understand you correct Do you believe that for justice and love Do you believe that for justice and love Do you believe that for justice and love to exist, your version of free will has to exist, your version of free will has to exist, your version of free will has to exist? That we have to be able to to exist? That we have to be able to to exist? That we have to be able to choose to reject God for justice and choose to reject God for justice and choose to reject God for justice and love to exist. love to exist. love to exist. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And he would say >> And he would say >> And he would say >> yes.

>> yes. >> yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I would say, do you believe we will >> And I would say, do you believe we will >> And I would say, do you believe we will be able to sin in heaven? be able to sin in heaven? be able to sin in heaven? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> So does that mean that there's no >> So does that mean that there's no >> So does that mean that there's no justice or love in heaven? justice or love in heaven? justice or love in heaven? >> Glorified body. >> Glorified body. >> Glorified body. >> But but you're not able to though. So >> But but you're not able to though. So >> But but you're not able to though. So you would tell me that there is no sin, you would tell me that there is no sin, you would tell me that there is no sin, there's no justice or love in heaven there's no justice or love in heaven there's no justice or love in heaven because you won't be able to choose to because you won't be able to choose to because you won't be able to choose to sin. sin. sin. >> And he would say mystery and I would say >> And he would say mystery and I would say >> And he would say mystery and I would say contradiction. contradiction. contradiction. >> My point is is that I know like he loves >> My point is is that I know like he loves >> My point is is that I know like he loves to play that against us. to play that against us. to play that against us. >> You got to play the mystery card >> You got to play the mystery card >> You got to play the mystery card everywhere here. Let me sum this up and everywhere here. Let me sum this up and everywhere here. Let me sum this up and then we can get into maybe some pastoral then we can get into maybe some pastoral then we can get into maybe some pastoral recommendations to wrap this up. recommendations to wrap this up. recommendations to wrap this up. >> My point in this and and if you've been >> My point in this and and if you've been >> My point in this and and if you've been mad as I've been talking like, oh, like mad as I've been talking like, oh, like mad as I've been talking like, oh, like you never just answer a question, you you never just answer a question, you you never just answer a question, you always ask with another question. I've always ask with another question. I've always ask with another question. I've been doing that a little intentionally been doing that a little intentionally been doing that a little intentionally to say, hey, there are questions that to say, hey, there are questions that to say, hey, there are questions that both sides have a tough time answering both sides have a tough time answering both sides have a tough time answering because there is scripture in support of because there is scripture in support of because there is scripture in support of both and there is logic in support of both and there is logic in support of both and there is logic in support of both and they're really tough verses. I both and they're really tough verses. I both and they're really tough verses. I mean, there really tough things that we mean, there really tough things that we mean, there really tough things that we have to think about in terms of both. have to think about in terms of both. have to think about in terms of both. This is part I went back and forth for This is part I went back and forth for This is part I went back and forth for years on. So, part of why I did this is years on. So, part of why I did this is years on. So, part of why I did this is hopefully to make people wrestle a hopefully to make people wrestle a hopefully to make people wrestle a little bit with it, but then also what little bit with it, but then also what little bit with it, but then also what I'm hoping will happen is that we'll I'm hoping will happen is that we'll I'm hoping will happen is that we'll see, hey, there's tough things that both see, hey, there's tough things that both see, hey, there's tough things that both of us have to wrestle with. This should of us have to wrestle with. This should of us have to wrestle with. This should cause us to be a lot more gracious with cause us to be a lot more gracious with cause us to be a lot more gracious with each other and not immediately assume each other and not immediately assume each other and not immediately assume the worst. Calvinists can look at the worst. Calvinists can look at the worst. Calvinists can look at Armenians and say, "Oh, you don't care Armenians and say, "Oh, you don't care Armenians and say, "Oh, you don't care about the glory of God and you don't about the glory of God and you don't about the glory of God and you don't care about his sovereignty." And care about his sovereignty." And care about his sovereignty." And Armenian can look at people and say, Armenian can look at people and say, Armenian can look at people and say, "Oh, you don't care about God's love and "Oh, you don't care about God's love and "Oh, you don't care about God's love and you just want people go to hell." Like, you just want people go to hell." Like, you just want people go to hell." Like, "No, no, no, no. Let's not assume the "No, no, no, no. Let's not assume the "No, no, no, no. Let's not assume the worst. Let's just both assume that we're worst. Let's just both assume that we're worst. Let's just both assume that we're trying to look at scripture and wrestle trying to look at scripture and wrestle trying to look at scripture and wrestle with the tensions we see there." All with the tensions we see there." All with the tensions we see there." All right. Let's maybe get some final right. Let's maybe get some final right. Let's maybe get some final pastoral words and wrap it up.

pastoral words and wrap it up. pastoral words and wrap it up. >> Just to add to what you said. 1 >> Just to add to what you said. 1 >> Just to add to what you said. 1 Corinthians 13:12, "For now we see in a Corinthians 13:12, "For now we see in a Corinthians 13:12, "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face." mirror dimly, but then face to face." mirror dimly, but then face to face." Now I know in part, then I shall know Now I know in part, then I shall know Now I know in part, then I shall know fully even as I have been fully known. fully even as I have been fully known. fully even as I have been fully known. >> Uh man, a couple things again. >> Uh man, a couple things again. >> Uh man, a couple things again. Somebody's asking, but what if I am not Somebody's asking, but what if I am not Somebody's asking, but what if I am not elect? elect? elect? >> What if uh what if I'm not chosen? Uh >> What if uh what if I'm not chosen? Uh >> What if uh what if I'm not chosen? Uh what if God didn't choose me? Um what if God didn't choose me? Um what if God didn't choose me? Um >> let me just read the Bible. John 6:37. >> let me just read the Bible. John 6:37. >> let me just read the Bible. John 6:37. >> Whoever comes to me, I will never cast >> Whoever comes to me, I will never cast >> Whoever comes to me, I will never cast out. out. out. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's great news. >> That's great news. >> That's great news. >> Come to Jesus. >> Come to Jesus. >> Come to Jesus. >> Run to Jesus. Find find hope in Jesus. >> Run to Jesus. Find find hope in Jesus. >> Run to Jesus. Find find hope in Jesus. Uh any any thoughts on that? Uh any any thoughts on that? Uh any any thoughts on that? >> Yeah. Let me actually go back to >> Yeah. Let me actually go back to >> Yeah. Let me actually go back to really to me because again I you know really to me because again I you know really to me because again I you know we're mainly talking to believers on we're mainly talking to believers on we're mainly talking to believers on this podcast obviously and again there's this podcast obviously and again there's this podcast obviously and again there's people probably from both sides of this people probably from both sides of this people probably from both sides of this listening and I want to leave you with listening and I want to leave you with listening and I want to leave you with this in terms of from my perspective of this in terms of from my perspective of this in terms of from my perspective of hopefully we again we now can lock arms hopefully we again we now can lock arms hopefully we again we now can lock arms and go do the same thing and I mentioned and go do the same thing and I mentioned and go do the same thing and I mentioned earlier uh my intern my resident Derek earlier uh my intern my resident Derek earlier uh my intern my resident Derek who he just came I hadn't slept in days who he just came I hadn't slept in days who he just came I hadn't slept in days >> and I was just like hey Derek let let me >> and I was just like hey Derek let let me >> and I was just like hey Derek let let me give you some words and it wasn't hey give you some words and it wasn't hey give you some words and it wasn't hey let me convince you of my position I let me convince you of my position I let me convince you of my position I didn't even tell him where I stood on didn't even tell him where I stood on didn't even tell him where I stood on this this this >> I said hey Derek let's say that >> I said hey Derek let's say that >> I said hey Derek let's say that Calvinism is true and they are priests Calvinism is true and they are priests Calvinism is true and they are priests in one way or another. Whose in one way or another. Whose in one way or another. Whose responsibility and choice is it responsibility and choice is it responsibility and choice is it ultimately if they come to faith or not?

ultimately if they come to faith or not? ultimately if they come to faith or not? And he said, "God's." And I said, "Okay, And he said, "God's." And I said, "Okay, And he said, "God's." And I said, "Okay, whose responsibility is it to share the whose responsibility is it to share the whose responsibility is it to share the gospel with them?" And he said, "Mine." gospel with them?" And he said, "Mine." gospel with them?" And he said, "Mine." I'm like, "You're right. Let's say your I'm like, "You're right. Let's say your I'm like, "You're right. Let's say your minionism is true, conditional election minionism is true, conditional election minionism is true, conditional election is true, and it's ult like who's whose is true, and it's ult like who's whose is true, and it's ult like who's whose ultimate responsibility is it if they ultimate responsibility is it if they ultimate responsibility is it if they believe in Jesus or not?" And he said, believe in Jesus or not?" And he said, believe in Jesus or not?" And he said, "My family." He said, "Theirs." And they "My family." He said, "Theirs." And they "My family." He said, "Theirs." And they said, "You're right." but whose said, "You're right." but whose said, "You're right." but whose responsibility is it to share the gospel responsibility is it to share the gospel responsibility is it to share the gospel with them? And he said, "Mine." And I with them? And he said, "Mine." And I with them? And he said, "Mine." And I said, "You're right, Derek. said, "You're right, Derek. said, "You're right, Derek. >> Either way, what you just said, Derek, >> Either way, what you just said, Derek, >> Either way, what you just said, Derek, is that either way, you're not is that either way, you're not is that either way, you're not responsible for what they do, responsible for what they do, responsible for what they do, >> but you are responsible for what you do. >> but you are responsible for what you do. >> but you are responsible for what you do. You're not responsible if they believe, You're not responsible if they believe, You're not responsible if they believe, but you are responsible for presenting but you are responsible for presenting but you are responsible for presenting the gospel so they can have a chance to the gospel so they can have a chance to the gospel so they can have a chance to believe." So my hope in this is this. believe." So my hope in this is this. believe." So my hope in this is this. It's wherever you land on this, let's It's wherever you land on this, let's It's wherever you land on this, let's all go out this week and this next week all go out this week and this next week all go out this week and this next week and let's share the gospel passionately and let's share the gospel passionately and let's share the gospel passionately and frequently knowing that God is able and frequently knowing that God is able and frequently knowing that God is able to open up eyes and raise the dead and to open up eyes and raise the dead and to open up eyes and raise the dead and save the lost. save the lost. save the lost. >> Let me end with that's great. Let me end >> Let me end with that's great. Let me end >> Let me end with that's great. Let me end with these two quotes and then I'll ask with these two quotes and then I'll ask with these two quotes and then I'll ask you to pray. Paul RC Sproul, God doesn't you to pray. Paul RC Sproul, God doesn't you to pray. Paul RC Sproul, God doesn't just throw a life preserver to a just throw a life preserver to a just throw a life preserver to a drowning person. He goes to the bottom drowning person. He goes to the bottom drowning person. He goes to the bottom of the sea, pulls a corpse from the of the sea, pulls a corpse from the of the sea, pulls a corpse from the bottom, takes him up on the bank, bottom, takes him up on the bank, bottom, takes him up on the bank, breathes into him the breath of life, breathes into him the breath of life, breathes into him the breath of life, and makes him alive.

and makes him alive. and makes him alive. >> John Newton, I remember two things only. >> John Newton, I remember two things only. >> John Newton, I remember two things only. That I am a great sinner and that Christ That I am a great sinner and that Christ That I am a great sinner and that Christ is a great savior. is a great savior. is a great savior. >> Pastor Paul. >> Pastor Paul. >> Pastor Paul. >> Yeah. Can I say one more thing? I almost >> Yeah. Can I say one more thing? I almost >> Yeah. Can I say one more thing? I almost forgot. I hate to do this. I hate to do forgot. I hate to do this. I hate to do forgot. I hate to do this. I hate to do this. I hate to because that's such a this. I hate to because that's such a this. I hate to because that's such a good end. good end. good end. >> Um, I want to give you actually >> Um, I want to give you actually >> Um, I want to give you actually something that I once heard John Piper something that I once heard John Piper something that I once heard John Piper saying. And John Piper, if you don't saying. And John Piper, if you don't saying. And John Piper, if you don't know JP, the the OG JP, he is an Ardent know JP, the the OG JP, he is an Ardent know JP, the the OG JP, he is an Ardent Calvinist. Ardan's Calvinist. And love Calvinist. Ardan's Calvinist. And love Calvinist. Ardan's Calvinist. And love him. But by the way, I just love love him. But by the way, I just love love him. But by the way, I just love love love John Piper. Um I one time heard love John Piper. Um I one time heard love John Piper. Um I one time heard him. He was asked a question on this him. He was asked a question on this him. He was asked a question on this specifically around like, man, does God specifically around like, man, does God specifically around like, man, does God piss people to hell? And he said as one piss people to hell? And he said as one piss people to hell? And he said as one of his prerequises, if believing this makes you think that if believing this makes you think that God is a monster and not loving, I would God is a monster and not loving, I would God is a monster and not loving, I would rather have you not believe it. rather have you not believe it. rather have you not believe it. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. So, I will give that one final pastor So, I will give that one final pastor So, I will give that one final pastor word. I'm so I I remember this as you word. I'm so I I remember this as you word. I'm so I I remember this as you were talking. I like I feel like we got were talking. I like I feel like we got were talking. I like I feel like we got shows. If you're out there and you're shows. If you're out there and you're shows. If you're out there and you're like, man, even though I see this in like, man, even though I see this in like, man, even though I see this in scripture, like I there's just no way scripture, like I there's just no way scripture, like I there's just no way around this. I'm like, then you know around this. I'm like, then you know around this. I'm like, then you know what? I would rather you not believe it what? I would rather you not believe it what? I would rather you not believe it >> and still know that God is a loving God >> and still know that God is a loving God >> and still know that God is a loving God and trust that maybe God will work in and trust that maybe God will work in and trust that maybe God will work in your mind and your heart. But I just your mind and your heart. But I just your mind and your heart. But I just say, hey, if this is going to really say, hey, if this is going to really say, hey, if this is going to really cause you simple, let it go for now and cause you simple, let it go for now and cause you simple, let it go for now and go do what I said a few minutes ago.

go do what I said a few minutes ago. go do what I said a few minutes ago. Share the gospel, believing everything Share the gospel, believing everything Share the gospel, believing everything that RC Sprro, through what Carlos just that RC Sprro, through what Carlos just that RC Sprro, through what Carlos just said said. All right, I'll pray for us. said said. All right, I'll pray for us. said said. All right, I'll pray for us. Please do. Please do. Please do. >> All right, >> All right, >> All right, [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] man. Father, thank you for the fact that man. Father, thank you for the fact that man. Father, thank you for the fact that we can as Christian brothers and sisters we can as Christian brothers and sisters we can as Christian brothers and sisters have these kind of conversations and have these kind of conversations and have these kind of conversations and disagree even fiercely, God, but still disagree even fiercely, God, but still disagree even fiercely, God, but still be brothers and sisters in Christ and be brothers and sisters in Christ and be brothers and sisters in Christ and still have the same Lord and the same still have the same Lord and the same still have the same Lord and the same father, but also still have the same father, but also still have the same father, but also still have the same mission to go and present the gospel to mission to go and present the gospel to mission to go and present the gospel to people even if we disagree of how people people even if we disagree of how people people even if we disagree of how people come to faith. And God, I pray that come to faith. And God, I pray that come to faith. And God, I pray that would happen. God, I pray that you would would happen. God, I pray that you would would happen. God, I pray that you would fill us with a passion to go out and to fill us with a passion to go out and to fill us with a passion to go out and to tell people the good news of what you tell people the good news of what you tell people the good news of what you came to this earth to do. Um, I want to came to this earth to do. Um, I want to came to this earth to do. Um, I want to ask God that you would not let this ask God that you would not let this ask God that you would not let this issue divide or distract us. issue divide or distract us. issue divide or distract us. >> Help us not divide or distract us. Lord, >> Help us not divide or distract us. Lord, >> Help us not divide or distract us. Lord, I want to pray uh going back to some I want to pray uh going back to some I want to pray uh going back to some things we talked about in the the first things we talked about in the the first things we talked about in the the first part of this podcast that Lord, you part of this podcast that Lord, you part of this podcast that Lord, you would give us the tenacity and the grit would give us the tenacity and the grit would give us the tenacity and the grit to do the things you've called us to do, to do the things you've called us to do, to do the things you've called us to do, to be in those rhythms to keep showing to be in those rhythms to keep showing to be in those rhythms to keep showing up day by day, knowing that you have up day by day, knowing that you have up day by day, knowing that you have something that you created us and saved something that you created us and saved something that you created us and saved us to become. And would you give us us to become. And would you give us us to become. And would you give us grace to do everything we can in our grace to do everything we can in our grace to do everything we can in our part to step into what you have made a part to step into what you have made a part to step into what you have made a way for us to become? We love you. It is way for us to become? We love you. It is way for us to become? We love you. It is in your name we pray. Amen.

in your name we pray. Amen. in your name we pray. Amen. >> Amen. Live free, brother. >> Amen. Live free, brother. >> Amen. Live free, brother. >> Live free.