How The Return of Jesus Will Change You TODAY | Greg Laurie & Christine Caine

We've made what people did to us or said We've made what people did to us or said about us bigger than what Jesus did for about us bigger than what Jesus did for about us bigger than what Jesus did for us at Calvary. The centrality of the us at Calvary. The centrality of the us at Calvary. The centrality of the gospel is that I'm not minimizing pain gospel is that I'm not minimizing pain gospel is that I'm not minimizing pain or suffering ever. Ever. But I am saying or suffering ever. Ever. But I am saying or suffering ever. Ever. But I am saying what Jesus did for me at Calvary is what Jesus did for me at Calvary is what Jesus did for me at Calvary is bigger than what anyone did to me here bigger than what anyone did to me here bigger than what anyone did to me here on earth. >> You're about to join my conversation >> You're about to join my conversation with my very special guest Christine with my very special guest Christine with my very special guest Christine Caine. Christine is an accomplished Caine. Christine is an accomplished Caine. Christine is an accomplished speaker. She speaks all around the speaker. She speaks all around the speaker. She speaks all around the world. She's a prolific author. She's world. She's a prolific author. She's world. She's a prolific author. She's the founder of an organization called the founder of an organization called the founder of an organization called A21 that helps people who have been A21 that helps people who have been A21 that helps people who have been trafficked and she does so much more. I trafficked and she does so much more. I trafficked and she does so much more. I think of her as a force of nature and think of her as a force of nature and think of her as a force of nature and the best use of that term. Christine is the best use of that term. Christine is the best use of that term. Christine is funny, she's biblical, she's insightful funny, she's biblical, she's insightful funny, she's biblical, she's insightful and she has so much to say.

and she has so much to say. and she has so much to say. I think you're going to really love this I think you're going to really love this I think you're going to really love this conversation. So, let's dive in. conversation. So, let's dive in. conversation. So, let's dive in. Uh you know, you and I have something Uh you know, you and I have something Uh you know, you and I have something common. Um common. Um common. Um I don't think either one of us was I don't think either one of us was I don't think either one of us was planned. We'll use that word in quotes planned. We'll use that word in quotes planned. We'll use that word in quotes because our lives are planned by God. because our lives are planned by God. because our lives are planned by God. But my mother was married and divorced But my mother was married and divorced But my mother was married and divorced seven times and she had a fling with seven times and she had a fling with seven times and she had a fling with some guy in Long Beach and she got some guy in Long Beach and she got some guy in Long Beach and she got pregnant. So, she married this other guy pregnant. So, she married this other guy pregnant. So, she married this other guy and put his name on my birth certificate and put his name on my birth certificate and put his name on my birth certificate and for the first 30 years of my life I and for the first 30 years of my life I and for the first 30 years of my life I thought that that he was my biological thought that that he was my biological thought that that he was my biological father. I I could not understand why he father. I I could not understand why he father. I I could not understand why he was so cold to me after I went and was so cold to me after I went and was so cold to me after I went and reconnected with him later and then I reconnected with him later and then I reconnected with him later and then I realized why he wasn't my biological realized why he wasn't my biological realized why he wasn't my biological dad. So, that's kind of a weird dad. So, that's kind of a weird dad. So, that's kind of a weird discovery to realize that I'm the discovery to realize that I'm the discovery to realize that I'm the product of a one-night stand. But you product of a one-night stand. But you product of a one-night stand. But you know, the Bible says we're fearfully know, the Bible says we're fearfully know, the Bible says we're fearfully we're wonderfully made when we're in the we're wonderfully made when we're in the we're wonderfully made when we're in the womb, The Lord knew us. And I think of womb, The Lord knew us. And I think of womb, The Lord knew us. And I think of your story. your story. your story. Uh tell us about how cuz you made a Uh tell us about how cuz you made a Uh tell us about how cuz you made a discovery. discovery. discovery. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, I you know, I >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, I you know, I >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, I you know, I I'm Greek. Um and so, if you've seen My I'm Greek. Um and so, if you've seen My I'm Greek. Um and so, if you've seen My Big Fat Greek Wedding, that is my big Big Fat Greek Wedding, that is my big Big Fat Greek Wedding, that is my big fat Greek life. So, you know, in fat Greek life. So, you know, in fat Greek life. So, you know, in Australia Australia Australia >> Do they really use Windex?

>> Do they really use Windex? >> Do they really use Windex? >> I got Windex in every room of the house. >> I got Windex in every room of the house. >> I got Windex in every room of the house. It's a real thing. My daughter is here It's a real thing. My daughter is here It's a real thing. My daughter is here with us in this interview. She would with us in this interview. She would with us in this interview. She would testify. My mom's always squirting on testify. My mom's always squirting on testify. My mom's always squirting on every item. It's hilarious. [laughter] every item. It's hilarious. [laughter] every item. It's hilarious. [laughter] You know, you came in earlier and you You know, you came in earlier and you You know, you came in earlier and you said, "I think I might have a mosquito." said, "I think I might have a mosquito." said, "I think I might have a mosquito." But I was going to get my Windex out. But I was going to get my Windex out. But I was going to get my Windex out. >> We should have tried it. [laughter] Now, >> We should have tried it. [laughter] Now, >> We should have tried it. [laughter] Now, you're trying to touch your mosquito you're trying to touch your mosquito you're trying to touch your mosquito bite or whatever it is. bite or whatever it is. bite or whatever it is. >> Yeah, I can't even see it, but it's you >> Yeah, I can't even see it, but it's you >> Yeah, I can't even see it, but it's you mentioned it. But But you know, so I mentioned it. But But you know, so I mentioned it. But But you know, so I grew up in a I mean, you've got to think grew up in a I mean, you've got to think grew up in a I mean, you've got to think staunch Greek Orthodox household. And in staunch Greek Orthodox household. And in staunch Greek Orthodox household. And in the 1960s, 1970s, you know, I was the 1960s, 1970s, you know, I was the 1960s, 1970s, you know, I was the the whole situation with women and the the whole situation with women and the the whole situation with women and Greek women was very, very different in Greek women was very, very different in Greek women was very, very different in Australia then. And so, being the Australia then. And so, being the Australia then. And so, being the daughter of Greek immigrants, there were daughter of Greek immigrants, there were daughter of Greek immigrants, there were some challenges anyway, growing up. some challenges anyway, growing up. some challenges anyway, growing up. >> And were these your adoptive parents? >> And were these your adoptive parents? >> And were these your adoptive parents? >> I didn't know that. So, you've got to >> I didn't know that. So, you've got to >> I didn't know that. So, you've got to remember remember remember >> But you're biologically Greek. >> But you're biologically Greek. >> But you're biologically Greek. >> Yes, as I found out down the track when >> Yes, as I found out down the track when >> Yes, as I found out down the track when I found that I was adopted. I found that I was adopted. I found that I was adopted. >> of discoveries. >> of discoveries. >> of discoveries. >> Yeah, well, that's it. So, I grew up >> Yeah, well, that's it. So, I grew up >> Yeah, well, that's it. So, I grew up what you would think of the normal what you would think of the normal what you would think of the normal immigrant experience in Australia. Two immigrant experience in Australia. Two immigrant experience in Australia. Two brothers, one older, one younger. brothers, one older, one younger. brothers, one older, one younger. But also, um But also, um But also, um not my own immediate family, but there not my own immediate family, but there not my own immediate family, but there were people that my parents allowed into were people that my parents allowed into were people that my parents allowed into our home that they should have been able our home that they should have been able our home that they should have been able to trust and were very untrustworthy.

to trust and were very untrustworthy. to trust and were very untrustworthy. So, I was for about a decade uh the So, I was for about a decade uh the So, I was for about a decade uh the victim of childhood sexual abuse. And victim of childhood sexual abuse. And victim of childhood sexual abuse. And so, that so, that so, that I was already carrying a lot of shame I was already carrying a lot of shame I was already carrying a lot of shame and a lot of pain, a lot of anger from and a lot of pain, a lot of anger from and a lot of pain, a lot of anger from that. And also from being marginalized. that. And also from being marginalized. that. And also from being marginalized. We were very ridiculed for being kind of We were very ridiculed for being kind of We were very ridiculed for being kind of the immigrant kids in a very Australia the immigrant kids in a very Australia the immigrant kids in a very Australia at that time was very racist against at that time was very racist against at that time was very racist against Greeks and Italians. That's who we had. Greeks and Italians. That's who we had. Greeks and Italians. That's who we had. And I had mass migration Greeks and And I had mass migration Greeks and And I had mass migration Greeks and Italians. So, I was always on the Italians. So, I was always on the Italians. So, I was always on the margins. You know, English is my second margins. You know, English is my second margins. You know, English is my second language. Greek is my first language. language. Greek is my first language. language. Greek is my first language. So, imagine all this is happening. And So, imagine all this is happening. And So, imagine all this is happening. And now at 33, my brother, my older brother now at 33, my brother, my older brother now at 33, my brother, my older brother George calls me and he said, "Chris, George calls me and he said, "Chris, George calls me and he said, "Chris, I've got a letter from the government I've got a letter from the government I've got a letter from the government and it says that I've been adopted." and it says that I've been adopted." and it says that I've been adopted." Now, Greg, when he told me that at Now, Greg, when he told me that at Now, Greg, when he told me that at first, I started laughing because, you first, I started laughing because, you first, I started laughing because, you know when you're growing up, you say to know when you're growing up, you say to know when you're growing up, you say to your siblings, um "We're not related." your siblings, um "We're not related." your siblings, um "We're not related." Like, you know, you're a di- I mean, but Like, you know, you're a di- I mean, but Like, you know, you're a di- I mean, but anyway, then I went, "George, don't be anyway, then I went, "George, don't be anyway, then I went, "George, don't be ridiculous. ridiculous. ridiculous. The Department of Community Services, The Department of Community Services, The Department of Community Services, they've obviously sent this letter to they've obviously sent this letter to they've obviously sent this letter to the wrong person. So, now I got to call the wrong person. So, now I got to call the wrong person. So, now I got to call them." them." them." Anyway, about 10 minutes later, he calls Anyway, about 10 minutes later, he calls Anyway, about 10 minutes later, he calls me back sobbing. And he goes, "Chris, me back sobbing. And he goes, "Chris, me back sobbing. And he goes, "Chris, it's true. They told me the name of my it's true. They told me the name of my it's true. They told me the name of my biological mother, my biological father, biological mother, my biological father, biological mother, my biological father, you know, when I was born, when I was you know, when I was born, when I was you know, when I was born, when I was immunized." He goes, "I'm going to go immunized." He goes, "I'm going to go immunized." He goes, "I'm going to go home and confront Mom."

home and confront Mom." home and confront Mom." >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Now, my dad had died when I was 19. >> Now, my dad had died when I was 19. >> Now, my dad had died when I was 19. So, here's my Greek Orthodox mom, So, here's my Greek Orthodox mom, So, here's my Greek Orthodox mom, you know, home alone. She's obviously you know, home alone. She's obviously you know, home alone. She's obviously had this family secret for 35 years. had this family secret for 35 years. had this family secret for 35 years. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I don't know if you know much about >> And I don't know if you know much about >> And I don't know if you know much about Greeks, but they're crazy. So, I'm Greeks, but they're crazy. So, I'm Greeks, but they're crazy. So, I'm thinking my my my brother thinking my my my brother thinking my my my brother >> I'm taking note of this. >> I'm taking note of this. >> I'm taking note of this. >> Not that really happened, >> Not that really happened, >> Not that really happened, >> Greeks are crazy. >> Greeks are crazy. >> Greeks are crazy. >> very volatile. Like, you know, so my >> very volatile. Like, you know, so my >> very volatile. Like, you know, so my brother really could have I just thought brother really could have I just thought brother really could have I just thought I don't know where this is going to go. I don't know where this is going to go. I don't know where this is going to go. I jump in my car, go to my mom's house, I jump in my car, go to my mom's house, I jump in my car, go to my mom's house, and I literally walked in the front door and I literally walked in the front door and I literally walked in the front door at the minute that my brother is giving at the minute that my brother is giving at the minute that my brother is giving my mom this piece of paper. my mom this piece of paper. my mom this piece of paper. My mom takes it. I watch the blood drain My mom takes it. I watch the blood drain My mom takes it. I watch the blood drain out of her face and she starts crying. out of her face and she starts crying. out of her face and she starts crying. She goes, "George, She goes, "George, She goes, "George, you know, I'm so sorry. The adoption you know, I'm so sorry. The adoption you know, I'm so sorry. The adoption laws in Australia in the 1960s, they laws in Australia in the 1960s, they laws in Australia in the 1960s, they were all closed adoptions. So, we never were all closed adoptions. So, we never were all closed adoptions. So, we never thought you'd find out. And before your thought you'd find out. And before your thought you'd find out. And before your dad died, dad died, dad died, I promised him I'd never tell tell you I promised him I'd never tell tell you I promised him I'd never tell tell you and you know, you It's everything you're and you know, you It's everything you're and you know, you It's everything you're imagining. You know, my brother's imagining. You know, my brother's imagining. You know, my brother's crying, my mother's crying. crying, my mother's crying. crying, my mother's crying. I go to the kitchen to make food. My mom I go to the kitchen to make food. My mom I go to the kitchen to make food. My mom walks in about 10 minutes later. She walks in about 10 minutes later. She walks in about 10 minutes later. She goes, "Christina." In Greek, of course.

goes, "Christina." In Greek, of course. goes, "Christina." In Greek, of course. "Christina, since we're telling the "Christina, since we're telling the "Christina, since we're telling the truth today, do you want to know the truth today, do you want to know the truth today, do you want to know the whole truth?" And in that moment, I whole truth?" And in that moment, I whole truth?" And in that moment, I turned around. I don't even know why I turned around. I don't even know why I turned around. I don't even know why I said this to her, Greg. I go, said this to her, Greg. I go, said this to her, Greg. I go, "I've been adopted, too." And um so here "I've been adopted, too." And um so here "I've been adopted, too." And um so here I am, 2 weeks out from my 33rd birthday. I am, 2 weeks out from my 33rd birthday. I am, 2 weeks out from my 33rd birthday. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And my mom's >> And my mom's >> And my mom's weeping and she just goes um weeping and she just goes um weeping and she just goes um you know, yes. So that day, my you know, yes. So that day, my you know, yes. So that day, my 35-year-old brother found out he was 35-year-old brother found out he was 35-year-old brother found out he was adopted from one set of parents, I found adopted from one set of parents, I found adopted from one set of parents, I found out I was adopted from another set of out I was adopted from another set of out I was adopted from another set of parents, and my younger brother was the parents, and my younger brother was the parents, and my younger brother was the only biological child, but the three of only biological child, but the three of only biological child, but the three of us had grown up thinking that we were us had grown up thinking that we were us had grown up thinking that we were biologically biologically biologically >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> uh connected. And back then in >> uh connected. And back then in >> uh connected. And back then in Australia, you could only adopt same Australia, you could only adopt same Australia, you could only adopt same religion, same nationality. So uh my religion, same nationality. So uh my religion, same nationality. So uh my mother, which we've since found out she mother, which we've since found out she mother, which we've since found out she was um was um was um Greek. We know who she is. The It says Greek. We know who she is. The It says Greek. We know who she is. The It says her name, the father's name, it just her name, the father's name, it just her name, the father's name, it just says the supposed the purported father. says the supposed the purported father. says the supposed the purported father. So we don't know it was a 55-year-old So we don't know it was a 55-year-old So we don't know it was a 55-year-old married man. married man. married man. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Um >> Um >> Um and and and you know, so the fact is that I found you know, so the fact is that I found you know, so the fact is that I found out that at 33, but I do want to say out that at 33, but I do want to say out that at 33, but I do want to say this part. I had come to faith in Christ this part. I had come to faith in Christ this part. I had come to faith in Christ about a decade before that.

about a decade before that. about a decade before that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, a a church in a warehouse in >> You know, a a church in a warehouse in >> You know, a a church in a warehouse in the back of Sydney, Australia. the back of Sydney, Australia. the back of Sydney, Australia. And you've got to understand back then, And you've got to understand back then, And you've got to understand back then, a big deal for a Greek Orthodox girl to a big deal for a Greek Orthodox girl to a big deal for a Greek Orthodox girl to go to a Protestant church. I'd never go to a Protestant church. I'd never go to a Protestant church. I'd never been in one, you know, it was a big been in one, you know, it was a big been in one, you know, it was a big deal. And but you know, I say, I got deal. And but you know, I say, I got deal. And but you know, I say, I got saved saved. Um so I was one of those I saved saved. Um so I was one of those I saved saved. Um so I was one of those I was so broken. And because I was so was so broken. And because I was so was so broken. And because I was so broken because of my past, thank God I broken because of my past, thank God I broken because of my past, thank God I had someone that began to disciple me had someone that began to disciple me had someone that began to disciple me and what she did, this older woman at and what she did, this older woman at and what she did, this older woman at the time, said um Christine, you're the time, said um Christine, you're the time, said um Christine, you're going to have to replace the lies you going to have to replace the lies you going to have to replace the lies you believe about yourself that the abusers believe about yourself that the abusers believe about yourself that the abusers had said to me, that the kids at school had said to me, that the kids at school had said to me, that the kids at school that had ridiculed me, with the truth of that had ridiculed me, with the truth of that had ridiculed me, with the truth of the word of God. Now, the word of God. Now, the word of God. Now, I didn't even realize the power of that, I didn't even realize the power of that, I didn't even realize the power of that, Greg, but I'm I'm going to get back into Greg, but I'm I'm going to get back into Greg, but I'm I'm going to get back into my mother's kitchen because my mother's kitchen because my mother's kitchen because except for 10 years, except for 10 years, except for 10 years, and I've got to be honest, probably for and I've got to be honest, probably for and I've got to be honest, probably for the first year, I didn't even believe the first year, I didn't even believe the first year, I didn't even believe she would make me write out scriptures she would make me write out scriptures she would make me write out scriptures like like like "I am the righteousness of God in Christ "I am the righteousness of God in Christ "I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus." Now, I never believed that Jesus." Now, I never believed that Jesus." Now, I never believed that because I feel so dirty, so broken because I feel so dirty, so broken because I feel so dirty, so broken because of my past. Um I am fearfully, because of my past. Um I am fearfully, because of my past. Um I am fearfully, you quoted this, I am fearfully and you quoted this, I am fearfully and you quoted this, I am fearfully and wonderfully made. And she'd make me, I wonderfully made. And she'd make me, I wonderfully made. And she'd make me, I mean this is old school, there was no mean this is old school, there was no mean this is old school, there was no internet, no phones, you know, so it was internet, no phones, you know, so it was internet, no phones, you know, so it was you put it on stick it notes and stick you put it on stick it notes and stick you put it on stick it notes and stick it on your mirror. And she would say, it on your mirror. And she would say, it on your mirror. And she would say, I want you to quote the scripture and I want you to quote the scripture and I want you to quote the scripture and the verse every day. I want you to look the verse every day. I want you to look the verse every day. I want you to look in the mirror and I mean of course it in the mirror and I mean of course it in the mirror and I mean of course it was like you know, we are you are was like you know, we are you are was like you know, we are you are fearfully and wonderfully made, but she fearfully and wonderfully made, but she fearfully and wonderfully made, but she would say I want you to put Christine, would say I want you to put Christine, would say I want you to put Christine, you like put my name in that. Um so you like put my name in that. Um so you like put my name in that. Um so Christine, you are fearfully and Christine, you are fearfully and Christine, you are fearfully and wonderfully made. Christine, you are the wonderfully made. Christine, you are the wonderfully made. Christine, you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Uh therefore Christine, there is no Uh therefore Christine, there is no Uh therefore Christine, there is no condemnation. You know, she would make condemnation. You know, she would make condemnation. You know, she would make me like do that. I didn't even realize me like do that. I didn't even realize me like do that. I didn't even realize the power of that until here we are now the power of that until here we are now the power of that until here we are now a decade later. I find out shockingly a decade later. I find out shockingly a decade later. I find out shockingly I'm in my mother's kitchen, there's no I'm in my mother's kitchen, there's no I'm in my mother's kitchen, there's no Harvest Worship team, Harvest Worship team, Harvest Worship team, there's no um there's no um there's no um preacher standing there. I'm in my mom's preacher standing there. I'm in my mom's preacher standing there. I'm in my mom's kitchen, my brother is a mess having a kitchen, my brother is a mess having a kitchen, my brother is a mess having a breakdown finding out I mean the just breakdown finding out I mean the just breakdown finding out I mean the just finding this news out. My mother has finding this news out. My mother has finding this news out. My mother has lost, you know, just everything. She was lost, you know, just everything. She was lost, you know, just everything. She was weeping I mean sobbing when I say weeping I mean sobbing when I say weeping I mean sobbing when I say sobbing. sobbing. sobbing. And Greg, this is And Greg, this is And Greg, this is you know, the Lord's my witness, I you know, the Lord's my witness, I you know, the Lord's my witness, I reached across the kitchen table cuz my reached across the kitchen table cuz my reached across the kitchen table cuz my mom was such a mess and I went I grabbed mom was such a mess and I went I grabbed mom was such a mess and I went I grabbed her hands and I went, "Mom, it's okay." her hands and I went, "Mom, it's okay." her hands and I went, "Mom, it's okay." I'd literally here's a decade of I'd literally here's a decade of I'd literally here's a decade of renewing my mind by the word of God. renewing my mind by the word of God. renewing my mind by the word of God. What came out of my mouth I go, "Mom, What came out of my mouth I go, "Mom, What came out of my mouth I go, "Mom, it's okay." it's okay." it's okay." Because before I was formed in my Because before I was formed in my Because before I was formed in my mother's womb and I said to her, mother's womb and I said to her, mother's womb and I said to her, "Whosever womb that was, Mom, it doesn't "Whosever womb that was, Mom, it doesn't "Whosever womb that was, Mom, it doesn't matter whosever womb that was, God knew matter whosever womb that was, God knew matter whosever womb that was, God knew me. God knitted together my innermost me. God knitted together my innermost me. God knitted together my innermost and this is what was coming out of me."

and this is what was coming out of me." and this is what was coming out of me." And Greg, that day every fact that I And Greg, that day every fact that I And Greg, that day every fact that I thought to be true about my life thought to be true about my life thought to be true about my life changed. My background, my name, my changed. My background, my name, my changed. My background, my name, my history history history and to this day I mean we're recording and to this day I mean we're recording and to this day I mean we're recording this I don't I really don't know was I this I don't I really don't know was I this I don't I really don't know was I the result of a rape? I don't even know the result of a rape? I don't even know the result of a rape? I don't even know if I was the result of a one-night stand if I was the result of a one-night stand if I was the result of a one-night stand or or or an ongoing adulterous affair, but I do an ongoing adulterous affair, but I do an ongoing adulterous affair, but I do know that um know that um know that um I'm God's workmanship and I'm recreated I'm God's workmanship and I'm recreated I'm God's workmanship and I'm recreated in Christ Jesus for for good works that in Christ Jesus for for good works that in Christ Jesus for for good works that God prepared beforehand. So, God prepared beforehand. So, God prepared beforehand. So, you and I are so similar. Like, you you you and I are so similar. Like, you you you and I are so similar. Like, you you know, you were the result of a one-night know, you were the result of a one-night know, you were the result of a one-night stand. I don't quite know what what stand. I don't quite know what what stand. I don't quite know what what happened. happened. happened. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, but I do know that beyond all that, >> Um, but I do know that beyond all that, >> Um, but I do know that beyond all that, a sovereign God intentionally, a sovereign God intentionally, a sovereign God intentionally, >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> um, wanted us to be on the earth for >> um, wanted us to be on the earth for >> um, wanted us to be on the earth for such a time as this. such a time as this. such a time as this. >> That's right. And all of these things, >> That's right. And all of these things, >> That's right. And all of these things, you know, you know, you know, made you made you made you into the person you are. You know, God into the person you are. You know, God into the person you are. You know, God can cause all things to work together can cause all things to work together can cause all things to work together for good to those that love God. There for good to those that love God. There for good to those that love God. There are bad things that happened to us. What are bad things that happened to us. What are bad things that happened to us. What happened to you as a child is a horrible happened to you as a child is a horrible happened to you as a child is a horrible thing. thing. thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But despite that horrible thing, >> But despite that horrible thing, >> But despite that horrible thing, it caused an iron in your soul.

it caused an iron in your soul. it caused an iron in your soul. It it changed you. It affected you. And It it changed you. It affected you. And It it changed you. It affected you. And now you use that instead of something now you use that instead of something now you use that instead of something that cripples you, you use it as a tool that cripples you, you use it as a tool that cripples you, you use it as a tool to help others who are experiencing to help others who are experiencing to help others who are experiencing something similar to it. You know, and something similar to it. You know, and something similar to it. You know, and and I think that's very important. You and I think that's very important. You and I think that's very important. You know, we have a choice as to what we do know, we have a choice as to what we do know, we have a choice as to what we do with pain. It can make us better or with pain. It can make us better or with pain. It can make us better or better. better. better. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I just uh interviewed Chuck Swindoll >> And I just uh interviewed Chuck Swindoll >> And I just uh interviewed Chuck Swindoll and you'd think he had the perfect life and you'd think he had the perfect life and you'd think he had the perfect life raised in a Christian home and it was a raised in a Christian home and it was a raised in a Christian home and it was a Christian home, but it's funny. He had Christian home, but it's funny. He had Christian home, but it's funny. He had an older brother named Orville who was an older brother named Orville who was an older brother named Orville who was very accomplished piano player, very accomplished piano player, very accomplished piano player, scientist. He had a very outgoing sister scientist. He had a very outgoing sister scientist. He had a very outgoing sister named Lucy who was kind of the light of named Lucy who was kind of the light of named Lucy who was kind of the light of every room and and the parents favored every room and and the parents favored every room and and the parents favored them and they literally said to Chuck, them and they literally said to Chuck, them and they literally said to Chuck, "You were a mistake." And he was a "You were a mistake." And he was a "You were a mistake." And he was a little five-year-old boy. He didn't know little five-year-old boy. He didn't know little five-year-old boy. He didn't know what that meant. And so he went through what that meant. And so he went through what that meant. And so he went through life kind of feeling unloved, life kind of feeling unloved, life kind of feeling unloved, unappreciated. They didn't give him the unappreciated. They didn't give him the unappreciated. They didn't give him the attention. And I thought, yes, but the attention. And I thought, yes, but the attention. And I thought, yes, but the Lord allowed it. And he allowed it to Lord allowed it. And he allowed it to Lord allowed it. And he allowed it to make Chuck Swindoll into the man he make Chuck Swindoll into the man he make Chuck Swindoll into the man he became. And I think of David, remember became. And I think of David, remember became. And I think of David, remember Jesse, his father, when he was summoned Jesse, his father, when he was summoned Jesse, his father, when he was summoned by the prophet Samuel to find the next by the prophet Samuel to find the next by the prophet Samuel to find the next king of Israel. He trotted out his seven king of Israel. He trotted out his seven king of Israel. He trotted out his seven sons, the magnificent seven. Cute theme sons, the magnificent seven. Cute theme sons, the magnificent seven. Cute theme song here, right? So, and and Samuel's song here, right? So, and and Samuel's song here, right? So, and and Samuel's looking at the Lord saying, "That's not looking at the Lord saying, "That's not looking at the Lord saying, "That's not the one. That's not the one." He he sees the one. That's not the one." He he sees the one. That's not the one." He he sees Eliab, who was the most impressive of Eliab, who was the most impressive of Eliab, who was the most impressive of the lot. He That's got to be the one.

the lot. He That's got to be the one. the lot. He That's got to be the one. No, that's not the one. No, that's not the one. No, that's not the one. Then he realizes, "This isn't the one. Then he realizes, "This isn't the one. Then he realizes, "This isn't the one. Do you have any other children?" Do you have any other children?" Do you have any other children?" And Jesse reluctantly acknowledges And Jesse reluctantly acknowledges And Jesse reluctantly acknowledges David. In comes David bounding from the David. In comes David bounding from the David. In comes David bounding from the field, and of course, that's the Lord's field, and of course, that's the Lord's field, and of course, that's the Lord's chosen. David later writes in the chosen. David later writes in the chosen. David later writes in the Psalms, "If my father and mother forsake Psalms, "If my father and mother forsake Psalms, "If my father and mother forsake me, the Lord will take me up." So, I me, the Lord will take me up." So, I me, the Lord will take me up." So, I think of you. I think of myself. I think think of you. I think of myself. I think think of you. I think of myself. I think of Chuck Swindoll. People that were of Chuck Swindoll. People that were of Chuck Swindoll. People that were neglected that God chose. neglected that God chose. neglected that God chose. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and the and then he's gifted you >> And and the and then he's gifted you >> And and the and then he's gifted you with this incredible I I As I listen to with this incredible I I As I listen to with this incredible I I As I listen to you speak, and I've listened to you you speak, and I've listened to you you speak, and I've listened to you speak quite a few times, Christine. And speak quite a few times, Christine. And speak quite a few times, Christine. And and I'm so blessed by your insights and and I'm so blessed by your insights and and I'm so blessed by your insights and and I love the way I don't want to say and I love the way I don't want to say and I love the way I don't want to say you bring the word of God to life, you bring the word of God to life, you bring the word of God to life, because the word of God brings you to because the word of God brings you to because the word of God brings you to life. life. life. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But, there's a lot of people that >> But, there's a lot of people that >> But, there's a lot of people that managed to make the Bible boring. And managed to make the Bible boring. And managed to make the Bible boring. And you're not one of those people, thank you're not one of those people, thank you're not one of those people, thank God. And and I love how you, you know, God. And and I love how you, you know, God. And and I love how you, you know, you do your theological homework, your you do your theological homework, your you do your theological homework, your tech you get you understand, tech you get you understand, tech you get you understand, you know, the context [clears throat] you know, the context [clears throat] you know, the context [clears throat] and all the things, but then you apply.

and all the things, but then you apply. and all the things, but then you apply. And you apply with with warmth, with And you apply with with warmth, with And you apply with with warmth, with vulnerability, and with a lot of humor. vulnerability, and with a lot of humor. vulnerability, and with a lot of humor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I want to ask you about that, cuz I >> And I want to ask you about that, cuz I >> And I want to ask you about that, cuz I have a theory about that, but I want to have a theory about that, but I want to have a theory about that, but I want to see if it's true of you. see if it's true of you. see if it's true of you. Did you develop this humor going back to Did you develop this humor going back to Did you develop this humor going back to your childhood? Were you always kind of your childhood? Were you always kind of your childhood? Were you always kind of a person that found humor? Cuz sometimes a person that found humor? Cuz sometimes a person that found humor? Cuz sometimes people find humor in the darkest places people find humor in the darkest places people find humor in the darkest places as a coping mechanism. as a coping mechanism. as a coping mechanism. >> Yeah, and I I think so, because how else >> Yeah, and I I think so, because how else >> Yeah, and I I think so, because how else do you do you do you You don't even have language when you're You don't even have language when you're You don't even have language when you're younger. So, I found I had to find younger. So, I found I had to find younger. So, I found I had to find the funny side. And I think part of the funny side. And I think part of the funny side. And I think part of that, too, is culturally that, too, is culturally that, too, is culturally Greeks, we tend to be like loud and Greeks, we tend to be like loud and Greeks, we tend to be like loud and funny. And Australians, Australians, by funny. And Australians, Australians, by funny. And Australians, Australians, by and large, we don't take ourselves too and large, we don't take ourselves too and large, we don't take ourselves too seriously. seriously. seriously. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> And I think so growing up in Australia, >> And I think so growing up in Australia, >> And I think so growing up in Australia, obviously being born in Australia, I obviously being born in Australia, I obviously being born in Australia, I really think that's a huge part of it. really think that's a huge part of it. really think that's a huge part of it. Like you sometimes you look at British Like you sometimes you look at British Like you sometimes you look at British humor or you know, on TV and you it's humor or you know, on TV and you it's humor or you know, on TV and you it's very dry and you just don't Yeah, I love very dry and you just don't Yeah, I love very dry and you just don't Yeah, I love you Americans but you take yourselves you Americans but you take yourselves you Americans but you take yourselves very seriously. Whereas we we just kind very seriously. Whereas we we just kind very seriously. Whereas we we just kind of I don't know. It it's sort of that of I don't know. It it's sort of that of I don't know. It it's sort of that We just like have a go. We love the We just like have a go. We love the We just like have a go. We love the underdog. We're going to find a funny underdog. We're going to find a funny underdog. We're going to find a funny side. I think that's all part of it. And side. I think that's all part of it. And side. I think that's all part of it. And as you were talking then, you know, I as you were talking then, you know, I as you were talking then, you know, I was thinking of you know, Dr. Swindle was thinking of you know, Dr. Swindle was thinking of you know, Dr. Swindle and I I'm thinking of the um story in my and I I'm thinking of the um story in my and I I'm thinking of the um story in my life. I always feel like Joseph, you life. I always feel like Joseph, you life. I always feel like Joseph, you know, in Genesis chapter 50 verse 20 and know, in Genesis chapter 50 verse 20 and know, in Genesis chapter 50 verse 20 and he said to his brothers, "You meant this he said to his brothers, "You meant this he said to his brothers, "You meant this for evil against me."

for evil against me." for evil against me." And I've got to say to you And I've got to say to you And I've got to say to you Pastor every time we put a trafficker in Pastor every time we put a trafficker in Pastor every time we put a trafficker in jail or rescue a young child or a woman, jail or rescue a young child or a woman, jail or rescue a young child or a woman, I do think to myself, "Devil, I bet you I do think to myself, "Devil, I bet you I do think to myself, "Devil, I bet you wish you left me alone." Because you wish you left me alone." Because you wish you left me alone." Because you know, you meant this for evil but God know, you meant this for evil but God know, you meant this for evil but God meant it for this very purpose to save meant it for this very purpose to save meant it for this very purpose to save many people alive and I I I feel there's many people alive and I I I feel there's many people alive and I I I feel there's a redemption in it. I mean, of course, I a redemption in it. I mean, of course, I a redemption in it. I mean, of course, I would never wish that on anyone. I I would never wish that on anyone. I I would never wish that on anyone. I I don't wish you know, some people say, don't wish you know, some people say, don't wish you know, some people say, "Well, are you glad that happened to "Well, are you glad that happened to "Well, are you glad that happened to you, Christine?" you, Christine?" you, Christine?" >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Of course, I'm I'm not glad. Um, but >> Of course, I'm I'm not glad. Um, but >> Of course, I'm I'm not glad. Um, but I no longer I no longer I no longer spend my whole life going, spend my whole life going, spend my whole life going, "I wish that didn't happen. If that "I wish that didn't happen. If that "I wish that didn't happen. If that didn't happen, then I would be better." didn't happen, then I would be better." didn't happen, then I would be better." Like I think so much of the narrative in Like I think so much of the narrative in Like I think so much of the narrative in this culture is "Well, my life would be this culture is "Well, my life would be this culture is "Well, my life would be flourishing if there was no pain or flourishing if there was no pain or flourishing if there was no pain or suffering in my past." And I'm going, suffering in my past." And I'm going, suffering in my past." And I'm going, "No, no, the story of redemption is "No, no, the story of redemption is "No, no, the story of redemption is despite the pain and suffering in my despite the pain and suffering in my despite the pain and suffering in my past. God literally can redeem." And and past. God literally can redeem." And and past. God literally can redeem." And and and what the enemy stole, I don't feel and what the enemy stole, I don't feel and what the enemy stole, I don't feel in my life I missed anything. So when in my life I missed anything. So when in my life I missed anything. So when people go, "Do you wish?" Well, people go, "Do you wish?" Well, people go, "Do you wish?" Well, I no longer I don't I couldn't sit here I no longer I don't I couldn't sit here I no longer I don't I couldn't sit here with you and go, "I wish that never with you and go, "I wish that never with you and go, "I wish that never happened." What I would never wish for happened." What I would never wish for happened." What I would never wish for it to happen. I want everyone to be it to happen. I want everyone to be it to happen. I want everyone to be clear. I'm not saying ever abuse is clear. I'm not saying ever abuse is clear. I'm not saying ever abuse is okay. I'd never wish for it happen.

okay. I'd never wish for it happen. okay. I'd never wish for it happen. But God made meaning out of it and I But God made meaning out of it and I But God made meaning out of it and I don't truly spend one moment thinking, don't truly spend one moment thinking, don't truly spend one moment thinking, "If only that didn't happen." I'm like, "If only that didn't happen." I'm like, "If only that didn't happen." I'm like, "Oh, no. Despite what happened, look "Oh, no. Despite what happened, look "Oh, no. Despite what happened, look what the Lord has done." what the Lord has done." what the Lord has done." >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> And that's the testimony. To me, that's >> And that's the testimony. To me, that's >> And that's the testimony. To me, that's the gospel. the gospel. the gospel. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I thought that's what we're talking >> I thought that's what we're talking >> I thought that's what we're talking about this side of I said to people, about this side of I said to people, about this side of I said to people, "You know, you all go, 'Christine Caine, "You know, you all go, 'Christine Caine, "You know, you all go, 'Christine Caine, you're an exception.'" I go, "No, no, you're an exception.'" I go, "No, no, you're an exception.'" I go, "No, no, no, no. This is called the normal no, no. This is called the normal no, no. This is called the normal Christian life. I once was broken. Christian life. I once was broken. Christian life. I once was broken. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Jesus saved me, delivered me. I thought >> Jesus saved me, delivered me. I thought >> Jesus saved me, delivered me. I thought that was the message of the gospel, that was the message of the gospel, that was the message of the gospel, Greg. Greg. Greg. >> It is. >> It is. >> It is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, you're like a brand plucked out of >> Well, you're like a brand plucked out of >> Well, you're like a brand plucked out of the fire. And, you know, and I think the fire. And, you know, and I think the fire. And, you know, and I think that there's a misunderstanding of that there's a misunderstanding of that there's a misunderstanding of Romans 8:28. I'd like to hear your Romans 8:28. I'd like to hear your Romans 8:28. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it, but, you know, we know thoughts on it, but, you know, we know thoughts on it, but, you know, we know what it says. We know that we know that what it says. We know that we know that what it says. We know that we know that all things work together for good to all things work together for good to all things work together for good to those that love God and are that called those that love God and are that called those that love God and are that called according to his purpose. Now, the way according to his purpose. Now, the way according to his purpose. Now, the way sometimes it's interpreted is no matter sometimes it's interpreted is no matter sometimes it's interpreted is no matter what happens, God will make it into what happens, God will make it into what happens, God will make it into something good. But, that's not actually something good. But, that's not actually something good. But, that's not actually what the verse says. We know God causes what the verse says. We know God causes what the verse says. We know God causes all things to work together for good. As all things to work together for good. As all things to work together for good. As scripture says, "All things are your scripture says, "All things are your scripture says, "All things are your servants." So, our son died in an servants." So, our son died in an servants." So, our son died in an automobile accident 18 years ago. It was automobile accident 18 years ago. It was automobile accident 18 years ago. It was the worst moment of our life.

the worst moment of our life. the worst moment of our life. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> If I could change my own history, would >> If I could change my own history, would >> If I could change my own history, would I change it? Yes. If I could have my son I change it? Yes. If I could have my son I change it? Yes. If I could have my son back with me today, would I bring him back with me today, would I bring him back with me today, would I bring him back? Again, yes. Now, having said that, back? Again, yes. Now, having said that, back? Again, yes. Now, having said that, do I miss him every day? Of course. do I miss him every day? Of course. do I miss him every day? Of course. Could I say that anything good has come Could I say that anything good has come Could I say that anything good has come despite that tragedy? I have to say yes. despite that tragedy? I have to say yes. despite that tragedy? I have to say yes. Would I say that it changed me and made Would I say that it changed me and made Would I say that it changed me and made me perhaps more compassionate or more me perhaps more compassionate or more me perhaps more compassionate or more willing to take steps of faith and do willing to take steps of faith and do willing to take steps of faith and do things I would not have done otherwise? things I would not have done otherwise? things I would not have done otherwise? I would have to say yes. And I think we I would have to say yes. And I think we I would have to say yes. And I think we got to bring in Romans 8:29. got to bring in Romans 8:29. got to bring in Romans 8:29. 8:28, we know that all things work 8:28, we know that all things work 8:28, we know that all things work together for good to those that love together for good to those that love together for good to those that love God. God. God. Verse 29, "For whom he did foreknow, he Verse 29, "For whom he did foreknow, he Verse 29, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestine to be conformed into also did predestine to be conformed into also did predestine to be conformed into the image of his older son. So, God's the image of his older son. So, God's the image of his older son. So, God's ultimate goal is not to give us neat, ultimate goal is not to give us neat, ultimate goal is not to give us neat, tidy little lives like a Hallmark tidy little lives like a Hallmark tidy little lives like a Hallmark special, but rather special, but rather special, but rather to make us more like Jesus. What are to make us more like Jesus. What are to make us more like Jesus. What are your thoughts on on Romans 8:28? your thoughts on on Romans 8:28? your thoughts on on Romans 8:28? >> Oh, listen, I can't add anything to what >> Oh, listen, I can't add anything to what >> Oh, listen, I can't add anything to what you just said. I I I mean, and I wish you just said. I I I mean, and I wish you just said. I I I mean, and I wish that would be amplified that would be amplified that would be amplified >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> to a generation because the narrative, >> to a generation because the narrative, >> to a generation because the narrative, you know, we're recording this in 2026, you know, we're recording this in 2026, you know, we're recording this in 2026, definitely anywhere I travel and and definitely anywhere I travel and and definitely anywhere I travel and and truly, truly, truly, >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> particularly here, but in many nations >> particularly here, but in many nations >> particularly here, but in many nations around the world, the what I call like a around the world, the what I call like a around the world, the what I call like a a victim narrative that um is destroying a victim narrative that um is destroying a victim narrative that um is destroying a generation to me. And I think even in a generation to me. And I think even in a generation to me. And I think even in in the church, in the church, in the church, >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> the gospel is exactly what you just >> the gospel is exactly what you just >> the gospel is exactly what you just preached. It's it's despite that. Um cuz preached. It's it's despite that. Um cuz preached. It's it's despite that. Um cuz I'm not looking for a prosperity gospel I'm not looking for a prosperity gospel I'm not looking for a prosperity gospel that says everything this side of that says everything this side of that says everything this side of eternity is going to be awesome and eternity is going to be awesome and eternity is going to be awesome and God's your sugar daddy and going to give God's your sugar daddy and going to give God's your sugar daddy and going to give you whatever you want and and whatever you whatever you want and and whatever you whatever you want and and whatever you lost, he's going to give you 10 you lost, he's going to give you 10 you lost, he's going to give you 10 times better and it's going to be times better and it's going to be times better and it's going to be awesome. awesome. awesome. Things were never the goal cuz I'm not Things were never the goal cuz I'm not Things were never the goal cuz I'm not saying abundant life is in things, saying abundant life is in things, saying abundant life is in things, abundant life is in Christ. So, I'm abundant life is in Christ. So, I'm abundant life is in Christ. So, I'm saying despite what maybe the enemy has saying despite what maybe the enemy has saying despite what maybe the enemy has stolen and the pain and the suffering stolen and the pain and the suffering stolen and the pain and the suffering which this side of eternity, this is we which this side of eternity, this is we which this side of eternity, this is we live in a fallen world. live in a fallen world. live in a fallen world. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> that you can still flourish and fulfill >> that you can still flourish and fulfill >> that you can still flourish and fulfill purpose and Jesus, the miracle is that purpose and Jesus, the miracle is that purpose and Jesus, the miracle is that you as a father, you know, I think you you as a father, you know, I think you you as a father, you know, I think you and Kathy that and Kathy that and Kathy that there is no greater loss a parent could there is no greater loss a parent could there is no greater loss a parent could ever have than to lose a child. I mean, ever have than to lose a child. I mean, ever have than to lose a child. I mean, it's of all the unnatural things this it's of all the unnatural things this it's of all the unnatural things this side of eternity, that to me, side of eternity, that to me, side of eternity, that to me, no one is supposed to bury their no one is supposed to bury their no one is supposed to bury their children. It always should be the other children. It always should be the other children. It always should be the other way around. So, the fact that you are way around. So, the fact that you are way around. So, the fact that you are living, breathing testimony and Kathy living, breathing testimony and Kathy living, breathing testimony and Kathy who I love with a passion, um who I love with a passion, um who I love with a passion, um it says more about a resurrected savior it says more about a resurrected savior it says more about a resurrected savior than anything else. That you guys could than anything else. That you guys could than anything else. That you guys could get out of bed every day, let alone do get out of bed every day, let alone do get out of bed every day, let alone do everything you've done to the glory of everything you've done to the glory of everything you've done to the glory of God and see people saved. You cannot be

God and see people saved. You cannot be God and see people saved. You cannot be a lost person and not think there has to a lost person and not think there has to a lost person and not think there has to be a God. How else does that happen? You be a God. How else does that happen? You be a God. How else does that happen? You either do that or either do that or either do that or >> Yeah. you cope with how most people cope >> Yeah. you cope with how most people cope >> Yeah. you cope with how most people cope with, which is with, which is with, which is having more of that drink or popping having more of that drink or popping having more of that drink or popping that extra pill or getting divorced or that extra pill or getting divorced or that extra pill or getting divorced or whatever because that would be the whatever because that would be the whatever because that would be the natural repercussions of such a tragedy. natural repercussions of such a tragedy. natural repercussions of such a tragedy. So, there's got to be something So, there's got to be something So, there's got to be something supernatural to me. That that supernatural to me. That that supernatural to me. That that That doesn't make anything worth the It That doesn't make anything worth the It That doesn't make anything worth the It says we live in a fallen world and one says we live in a fallen world and one says we live in a fallen world and one day Jesus is going to come back and day Jesus is going to come back and day Jesus is going to come back and renew all things and we're trying to be renew all things and we're trying to be renew all things and we're trying to be a light in the midst of that darkness. a light in the midst of that darkness. a light in the midst of that darkness. We are declaring his praises. We're not We are declaring his praises. We're not We are declaring his praises. We're not saying everything's perfect. That saying everything's perfect. That saying everything's perfect. That doesn't mean God's blessed me. The doesn't mean God's blessed me. The doesn't mean God's blessed me. The blessing of God is I'm still here and blessing of God is I'm still here and blessing of God is I'm still here and and bearing fruit in season and out and and bearing fruit in season and out and and bearing fruit in season and out and and declaring the word in season and and declaring the word in season and and declaring the word in season and out. That shows that there's a God, a out. That shows that there's a God, a out. That shows that there's a God, a resurrected king to me more than more resurrected king to me more than more resurrected king to me more than more than a new house or a new car, you know, than a new house or a new car, you know, than a new house or a new car, you know, it's it's it's it's it's it's that there's peace and there's the fact that there's peace and there's the fact that there's peace and there's the fact that you have peace, you've got joy. And that you have peace, you've got joy. And that you have peace, you've got joy. And I try to say to people at the moment I try to say to people at the moment I try to say to people at the moment there is such an outrage that somehow there is such an outrage that somehow there is such an outrage that somehow goes if the structure's not right, if goes if the structure's not right, if goes if the structure's not right, if the system's not right, if every If your the system's not right, if every If your the system's not right, if every If your parents didn't do everything right, parents didn't do everything right, parents didn't do everything right, no wonder you're no wonder you're no wonder you're you're dysfunctional or if you didn't you're dysfunctional or if you didn't you're dysfunctional or if you didn't have the right schooling or you didn't have the right schooling or you didn't have the right schooling or you didn't grow up in the right neighborhood or you grow up in the right neighborhood or you grow up in the right neighborhood or you didn't have the So, I could say, well, didn't have the So, I could say, well, didn't have the So, I could say, well, on all fronts you could tick every box.

on all fronts you could tick every box. on all fronts you could tick every box. I was born wrong. I was born wrong. I was born wrong. I was I went literally I was I raised in I was I went literally I was I raised in I was I went literally I was I raised in the poorest zip code in my state, the the poorest zip code in my state, the the poorest zip code in my state, the third poorest like socio-economic third poorest like socio-economic third poorest like socio-economic demographic lowest in all of Australia. demographic lowest in all of Australia. demographic lowest in all of Australia. So, I didn't grow up in the right So, I didn't grow up in the right So, I didn't grow up in the right neighborhood, I didn't go to the right neighborhood, I didn't go to the right neighborhood, I didn't go to the right school, I wasn't born into the right school, I wasn't born into the right school, I wasn't born into the right family, I didn't even know my name and I family, I didn't even know my name and I family, I didn't even know my name and I was sexually abused. I mean, tick tick was sexually abused. I mean, tick tick was sexually abused. I mean, tick tick tick tick tick. tick tick tick. tick tick tick. If I bought into the narrative that said If I bought into the narrative that said If I bought into the narrative that said because of so much injustice and abuse because of so much injustice and abuse because of so much injustice and abuse and pain, and pain, and pain, you can never flourish. And Christine, you can never flourish. And Christine, you can never flourish. And Christine, if everything was different in your past if everything was different in your past if everything was different in your past or if you were raised in a different or if you were raised in a different or if you were raised in a different neighborhood or went to a different neighborhood or went to a different neighborhood or went to a different school or had different parents. school or had different parents. school or had different parents. Then, only then could you flourish. That Then, only then could you flourish. That Then, only then could you flourish. That to me is its own kind of prosperity to me is its own kind of prosperity to me is its own kind of prosperity gospel. And I I'm saying that the gospel gospel. And I I'm saying that the gospel gospel. And I I'm saying that the gospel is despite like you've got someone like is despite like you've got someone like is despite like you've got someone like a Daniel that was literally trafficked a Daniel that was literally trafficked a Daniel that was literally trafficked as a 15-year-old. I mean, he was forced as a 15-year-old. I mean, he was forced as a 15-year-old. I mean, he was forced labor. He was taken out of Jerusalem, labor. He was taken out of Jerusalem, labor. He was taken out of Jerusalem, had to walk whatever 4 500 miles or 900 had to walk whatever 4 500 miles or 900 had to walk whatever 4 500 miles or 900 miles to Babylon.

miles to Babylon. miles to Babylon. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> And it probably in chains as a slave. He >> And it probably in chains as a slave. He >> And it probably in chains as a slave. He was a a slave. And then he was was a a slave. And then he was was a a slave. And then he was indoctrinated for all of those years and indoctrinated for all of those years and indoctrinated for all of those years and forced labor in the king's court. I forced labor in the king's court. I forced labor in the king's court. I mean, we make it all sound so romantic, mean, we make it all sound so romantic, mean, we make it all sound so romantic, but he was taken as a 15-year-old, but he was taken as a 15-year-old, but he was taken as a 15-year-old, served under all those administrations served under all those administrations served under all those administrations for 70 years in exile, but he was for 70 years in exile, but he was for 70 years in exile, but he was actually a forced labor slave if you're actually a forced labor slave if you're actually a forced labor slave if you're looking at it. And so looking at it. And so looking at it. And so and yet did he fulfill his purpose? and yet did he fulfill his purpose? and yet did he fulfill his purpose? Absolutely. And Joseph who was taken and Absolutely. And Joseph who was taken and Absolutely. And Joseph who was taken and sold into slavery and falsely accused sold into slavery and falsely accused sold into slavery and falsely accused and in a prison. and in a prison. and in a prison. And sometimes I'm going my point for And sometimes I'm going my point for And sometimes I'm going my point for that is that is that is if you're waiting for the system to get if you're waiting for the system to get if you're waiting for the system to get better to think that only then God can better to think that only then God can better to think that only then God can bless you and you can flourish, you're bless you and you can flourish, you're bless you and you can flourish, you're not reading the right gospel. Because not reading the right gospel. Because not reading the right gospel. Because the gospel is that despite everything, the gospel is that despite everything, the gospel is that despite everything, God can and can actually give you will God can and can actually give you will God can and can actually give you will obviously save you and deliver you and obviously save you and deliver you and obviously save you and deliver you and you can fulfill your purpose. God's so you can fulfill your purpose. God's so you can fulfill your purpose. God's so aware of our circumstances. So if I need aware of our circumstances. So if I need aware of our circumstances. So if I need my circumstances to change to flourish. my circumstances to change to flourish. my circumstances to change to flourish. And when I call flourishing, I'm talking And when I call flourishing, I'm talking And when I call flourishing, I'm talking about the peace of God, the joy of the about the peace of God, the joy of the about the peace of God, the joy of the Lord being our strength. Um Lord being our strength. Um Lord being our strength. Um you know, the purpose of God being you know, the purpose of God being you know, the purpose of God being fulfilled. Are we saying Paul didn't fulfilled. Are we saying Paul didn't fulfilled. Are we saying Paul didn't fulfill his purpose because he was in a fulfill his purpose because he was in a fulfill his purpose because he was in a prison?

prison? prison? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Or because he was beaten, or because he >> Or because he was beaten, or because he >> Or because he was beaten, or because he was shipwrecked? I mean, we could use was shipwrecked? I mean, we could use was shipwrecked? I mean, we could use that whole argument and go, "Well, you that whole argument and go, "Well, you that whole argument and go, "Well, you know, because of the trauma in his life, know, because of the trauma in his life, know, because of the trauma in his life, he couldn't fulfill his purpose." And he couldn't fulfill his purpose." And he couldn't fulfill his purpose." And I'm saying despite the trauma, I'm saying despite the trauma, I'm saying despite the trauma, >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> the testimony is he did. That's the >> the testimony is he did. That's the >> the testimony is he did. That's the testimony of a resurrected king. Somehow testimony of a resurrected king. Somehow testimony of a resurrected king. Somehow we have almost brought into the we have almost brought into the we have almost brought into the narrative of the world And narrative of the world And narrative of the world And unfortunately, unfortunately, unfortunately, we've made what people did to us or said we've made what people did to us or said we've made what people did to us or said about us bigger than what Jesus did for about us bigger than what Jesus did for about us bigger than what Jesus did for us at Calvary. And I think the church, us at Calvary. And I think the church, us at Calvary. And I think the church, even in our preaching and teaching, the even in our preaching and teaching, the even in our preaching and teaching, the centrality of the gospel is that I'm not centrality of the gospel is that I'm not centrality of the gospel is that I'm not minimizing pain or suffering ever. minimizing pain or suffering ever. minimizing pain or suffering ever. But I am saying what Jesus did for me at But I am saying what Jesus did for me at But I am saying what Jesus did for me at Calvary is bigger than what anyone did Calvary is bigger than what anyone did Calvary is bigger than what anyone did to me here on earth. to me here on earth. to me here on earth. >> Well, you know, >> Well, you know, >> Well, you know, Christine, you have a gift of Christine, you have a gift of Christine, you have a gift of evangelism, clearly. I think you're an evangelism, clearly. I think you're an evangelism, clearly. I think you're an evangelist. You said that yourself. evangelist. You said that yourself. evangelist. You said that yourself. And I don't meet a lot of evangelists, And I don't meet a lot of evangelists, And I don't meet a lot of evangelists, but I know one when I meet one. And but I know one when I meet one. And but I know one when I meet one. And you're one. you're one. you're one. >> Right.

>> Right. >> Right. >> You know, and some of many evangelists I >> You know, and some of many evangelists I >> You know, and some of many evangelists I know are preachers, but also some know are preachers, but also some know are preachers, but also some evangelists I've met are just regular evangelists I've met are just regular evangelists I've met are just regular folks working whatever job they work, folks working whatever job they work, folks working whatever job they work, but they have a gift but they have a gift but they have a gift >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> and a boldness to proclaim the gospel. >> and a boldness to proclaim the gospel. >> and a boldness to proclaim the gospel. Clearly, you have that. And I it seems Clearly, you have that. And I it seems Clearly, you have that. And I it seems to me that that's something that's to me that that's something that's to me that that's something that's lacking in the church today. You don't lacking in the church today. You don't lacking in the church today. You don't see just clear evangelism, clear see just clear evangelism, clear see just clear evangelism, clear opportunities for people to come to opportunities for people to come to opportunities for people to come to Christ. You know, we've had people come Christ. You know, we've had people come Christ. You know, we've had people come to our crusades and I've had people say, to our crusades and I've had people say, to our crusades and I've had people say, "What you do is like so simple." It's "What you do is like so simple." It's "What you do is like so simple." It's like, "Yeah, that's on purpose." You like, "Yeah, that's on purpose." You like, "Yeah, that's on purpose." You know, that's [laughter] know, that's [laughter] know, that's [laughter] we do that that's intentional, actually. we do that that's intentional, actually. we do that that's intentional, actually. Because, you know, I think you know this Because, you know, I think you know this Because, you know, I think you know this as you travel the world that we are in a as you travel the world that we are in a as you travel the world that we are in a completely biblically illiterate completely biblically illiterate completely biblically illiterate culture. When I started preaching over culture. When I started preaching over culture. When I started preaching over 50 years ago, I wouldn't say people were 50 years ago, I wouldn't say people were 50 years ago, I wouldn't say people were biblically literate, but let's just say biblically literate, but let's just say biblically literate, but let's just say they knew more than they probably know they knew more than they probably know they knew more than they probably know now. now. now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh because, you know, we if I said Adam >> Uh because, you know, we if I said Adam >> Uh because, you know, we if I said Adam and Eve in the garden or Noah's Ark, and Eve in the garden or Noah's Ark, and Eve in the garden or Noah's Ark, they would understand what I'm speaking they would understand what I'm speaking they would understand what I'm speaking of. Today, I find I have to define of. Today, I find I have to define of. Today, I find I have to define everything as I speak and not assume my everything as I speak and not assume my everything as I speak and not assume my listener understands my terminology.

listener understands my terminology. listener understands my terminology. Even phrases like you need to accept Even phrases like you need to accept Even phrases like you need to accept Christ, you need to repent. That's Christ, you need to repent. That's Christ, you need to repent. That's great. Say those things. But I don't great. Say those things. But I don't great. Say those things. But I don't assume they even know know that means. assume they even know know that means. assume they even know know that means. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah, have you found you have to has >> Yeah, have you found you have to has >> Yeah, have you found you have to has your preaching changed uh your preaching changed uh your preaching changed uh more recently than maybe the way it was more recently than maybe the way it was more recently than maybe the way it was back when you started out? back when you started out? back when you started out? >> I love that you said that cuz I I agree. >> I love that you said that cuz I I agree. >> I love that you said that cuz I I agree. Um that would be my predominant gift is Um that would be my predominant gift is Um that would be my predominant gift is evangelism and and it undergirds evangelism and and it undergirds evangelism and and it undergirds everything I do. I mean, you know, everything I do. I mean, you know, everything I do. I mean, you know, wherever I am I know I speak at lots of wherever I am I know I speak at lots of wherever I am I know I speak at lots of conferences conferences conferences but the whole purpose, you know, an but the whole purpose, you know, an but the whole purpose, you know, an evangelist job is evangelist job is evangelist job is >> And I just want to say when you come you >> And I just want to say when you come you >> And I just want to say when you come you are like I don't see this with many are like I don't see this with many are like I don't see this with many people. You're a force of nature in the people. You're a force of nature in the people. You're a force of nature in the best sense of that phrase. You're just best sense of that phrase. You're just best sense of that phrase. You're just like you bring energy and passion and like you bring energy and passion and like you bring energy and passion and excitement. I find that most evangelists excitement. I find that most evangelists excitement. I find that most evangelists also have a gift of exhortation. also have a gift of exhortation. also have a gift of exhortation. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You know, like a teacher tells you how >> You know, like a teacher tells you how >> You know, like a teacher tells you how to do it. to do it. to do it. A person with a gift of exhortation A person with a gift of exhortation A person with a gift of exhortation makes you want to do it. makes you want to do it. makes you want to do it. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> And I think there's something about the >> And I think there's something about the >> And I think there's something about the way you speak that people listening go I way you speak that people listening go I way you speak that people listening go I I I can do that. I want to do that. So I I can do that. I want to do that. So I I can do that. I want to do that. So you motivate believers but then you you motivate believers but then you you motivate believers but then you clarify the gospel to non-believers.

clarify the gospel to non-believers. clarify the gospel to non-believers. >> Well, totally. Well, I think that's >> Well, totally. Well, I think that's >> Well, totally. Well, I think that's obviously you built this church and have obviously you built this church and have obviously you built this church and have all the crusades. You know, so you think all the crusades. You know, so you think all the crusades. You know, so you think an evangelist primarily our job is to an evangelist primarily our job is to an evangelist primarily our job is to train and equip the saints to do the train and equip the saints to do the train and equip the saints to do the work of the ministry. work of the ministry. work of the ministry. So that's how I know I am one because So that's how I know I am one because So that's how I know I am one because that that I'm activating even more that that I'm activating even more that that I'm activating even more people than I'm reaching in that and it people than I'm reaching in that and it people than I'm reaching in that and it needs to be both together. So some needs to be both together. So some needs to be both together. So some people may may have a people may may have a people may may have a a be able to give an altar call, have a a be able to give an altar call, have a a be able to give an altar call, have a preaching gift of an evangelist but I preaching gift of an evangelist but I preaching gift of an evangelist but I think a true evangelist no matter what think a true evangelist no matter what think a true evangelist no matter what we say, we're going to make everyone we say, we're going to make everyone we say, we're going to make everyone want to win their friends to Christ. want to win their friends to Christ. want to win their friends to Christ. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Cuz it's just you know, we could be >> Cuz it's just you know, we could be >> Cuz it's just you know, we could be teaching something out of Leviticus and teaching something out of Leviticus and teaching something out of Leviticus and I'm going to make you want to win your I'm going to make you want to win your I'm going to make you want to win your friend. It's just who we are. It's going friend. It's just who we are. It's going friend. It's just who we are. It's going to come round to us. But I say that of to come round to us. But I say that of to come round to us. But I say that of you. I said to my daughter as we were you. I said to my daughter as we were you. I said to my daughter as we were driving for the interview. I said are driving for the interview. I said are driving for the interview. I said are you about to meet who I think as she you about to meet who I think as she you about to meet who I think as she said in the room is is probably today's said in the room is is probably today's said in the room is is probably today's greatest living evangelist and I go greatest living evangelist and I go greatest living evangelist and I go Catherine, there's so few truly which is Catherine, there's so few truly which is Catherine, there's so few truly which is very sad because and I said the most very sad because and I said the most very sad because and I said the most unwanted job in the church in the 21st unwanted job in the church in the 21st unwanted job in the church in the 21st century appears to be evangelism. Either century appears to be evangelism. Either century appears to be evangelism. Either the church itself is rolling his eyes we the church itself is rolling his eyes we the church itself is rolling his eyes we embarrass people. It's like embarrass people. It's like embarrass people. It's like and I go it's it's always the case and I and I go it's it's always the case and I and I go it's it's always the case and I said because at the end of the day where said because at the end of the day where said because at the end of the day where we're not going to compromise. I said we we're not going to compromise. I said we we're not going to compromise. I said we are so loving and we'll reach everyone are so loving and we'll reach everyone are so loving and we'll reach everyone but the centrality of the cross of but the centrality of the cross of but the centrality of the cross of Christ and the exclusivity of Jesus. I Christ and the exclusivity of Jesus. I Christ and the exclusivity of Jesus. I said I said you won't see us weighing on said I said you won't see us weighing on said I said you won't see us weighing on a whole lot more debates out there a whole lot more debates out there a whole lot more debates out there because because because things come and go and cultural issues things come and go and cultural issues things come and go and cultural issues come and go and I said we love people come and go and I said we love people come and go and I said we love people and I said but the exclusivity of Christ

and I said but the exclusivity of Christ and I said but the exclusivity of Christ as the only way to God. I said as the only way to God. I said as the only way to God. I said unfortunately that makes even a lot of unfortunately that makes even a lot of unfortunately that makes even a lot of Christians in 2020 very nervous and I Christians in 2020 very nervous and I Christians in 2020 very nervous and I said so what they do is cringe and they said so what they do is cringe and they said so what they do is cringe and they don't like us to do that and I go so we don't like us to do that and I go so we don't like us to do that and I go so we will be unapologetic and I go that's how will be unapologetic and I go that's how will be unapologetic and I go that's how you know a real evangelist is cuz we you know a real evangelist is cuz we you know a real evangelist is cuz we won't ever compromise on that. People won't ever compromise on that. People won't ever compromise on that. People will misunderstand us on everything else will misunderstand us on everything else will misunderstand us on everything else and think either we're too grace-filled and think either we're too grace-filled and think either we're too grace-filled or we not speaking out enough about or we not speaking out enough about or we not speaking out enough about issues. I said issues. I said issues. I said >> Very true. >> Very true. >> Very true. >> We can't win. I go we can't win. >> We can't win. I go we can't win. >> We can't win. I go we can't win. >> bridge builders. >> bridge builders. >> bridge builders. >> That's the thing. Yes. >> That's the thing. Yes. >> That's the thing. Yes. >> I mean we will stand up you know it's >> I mean we will stand up you know it's >> I mean we will stand up you know it's funny we'll want to build build a bridge funny we'll want to build build a bridge funny we'll want to build build a bridge to a non-believer but sometimes we to a non-believer but sometimes we to a non-believer but sometimes we confuse a believer cuz they don't get confuse a believer cuz they don't get confuse a believer cuz they don't get what we're doing but it's like how can I what we're doing but it's like how can I what we're doing but it's like how can I win a person to Christ if I don't start win a person to Christ if I don't start win a person to Christ if I don't start a conversation with Who was the first a conversation with Who was the first a conversation with Who was the first evangelist in the New Testament? The evangelist in the New Testament? The evangelist in the New Testament? The woman at the well. How was she reached? woman at the well. How was she reached? woman at the well. How was she reached? Jesus entered her world. He didn't Jesus entered her world. He didn't Jesus entered her world. He didn't condemn her. He just talked to her. Yeah condemn her. He just talked to her. Yeah condemn her. He just talked to her. Yeah he know if you knew who you were talking he know if you knew who you were talking he know if you knew who you were talking to you'd ask him and he'd give you water to you'd ask him and he'd give you water to you'd ask him and he'd give you water that's alive. Where were you going to that's alive. Where were you going to that's alive. Where were you going to get this water? And back and forth they get this water? And back and forth they get this water? And back and forth they go but immediately after she realizes go but immediately after she realizes go but immediately after she realizes he's Messiah she goes and tells the he's Messiah she goes and tells the he's Messiah she goes and tells the people in the town and it's interesting people in the town and it's interesting people in the town and it's interesting because it says many believe because of because it says many believe because of because it says many believe because of her testimony because they knew her.

her testimony because they knew her. her testimony because they knew her. Like she had a reputation. She was Like she had a reputation. She was Like she had a reputation. She was married and divorced five times and was married and divorced five times and was married and divorced five times and was living with the dude at the moment she living with the dude at the moment she living with the dude at the moment she encountered Christ. But I think well we encountered Christ. But I think well we encountered Christ. But I think well we know that lady. We know they probably know that lady. We know they probably know that lady. We know they probably didn't call her a lady. We know that didn't call her a lady. We know that didn't call her a lady. We know that girl. We know her reputation. If she girl. We know her reputation. If she girl. We know her reputation. If she believes there has to be something to believes there has to be something to believes there has to be something to this. So, you know, it's interesting. this. So, you know, it's interesting. this. So, you know, it's interesting. She went with that passion and I'm not She went with that passion and I'm not She went with that passion and I'm not saying you're like the woman at the saying you're like the woman at the saying you're like the woman at the well, but I'm saying you understand as well, but I'm saying you understand as well, but I'm saying you understand as an evangelist you have to build a an evangelist you have to build a an evangelist you have to build a bridge. bridge. bridge. >> Yeah, there's no other way. I think I >> Yeah, there's no other way. I think I >> Yeah, there's no other way. I think I mean mean mean dozens of countries every year. So, you dozens of countries every year. So, you dozens of countries every year. So, you know, and I've preached in Pakistan and know, and I've preached in Pakistan and know, and I've preached in Pakistan and Qatar. I mean, I could go on and on and Qatar. I mean, I could go on and on and Qatar. I mean, I could go on and on and I've done evangelistic big events like, I've done evangelistic big events like, I've done evangelistic big events like, you know, you know, you know, like you just had a couple of weeks ago like you just had a couple of weeks ago like you just had a couple of weeks ago here in Anaheim. And so, we were at here in Anaheim. And so, we were at here in Anaheim. And so, we were at 85,000 people in Pakistan and I'm So, 85,000 people in Pakistan and I'm So, 85,000 people in Pakistan and I'm So, imagine I'm a woman and I'm wearing the imagine I'm a woman and I'm wearing the imagine I'm a woman and I'm wearing the appropriate dress because I'm there and appropriate dress because I'm there and appropriate dress because I'm there and the same in Qatar, too. And I'm wearing the same in Qatar, too. And I'm wearing the same in Qatar, too. And I'm wearing the appropriate dress and publicly the appropriate dress and publicly the appropriate dress and publicly outdoor proclaiming the gospel. And I outdoor proclaiming the gospel. And I outdoor proclaiming the gospel. And I believe that's why the Lord's allowed my believe that's why the Lord's allowed my believe that's why the Lord's allowed my story to go around the world because story to go around the world because story to go around the world because >> Do you usually start with your story?

>> Do you usually start with your story? >> Do you usually start with your story? >> Yes, especially in an evangelistic >> Yes, especially in an evangelistic >> Yes, especially in an evangelistic context. context. context. >> Paul did, didn't he? He's a great >> Paul did, didn't he? He's a great >> Paul did, didn't he? He's a great orator, a great thinker, a great orator, a great thinker, a great orator, a great thinker, a great intellect, but almost always he said, intellect, but almost always he said, intellect, but almost always he said, "Let me tell you about what happened to "Let me tell you about what happened to "Let me tell you about what happened to me on the Damascus road." me on the Damascus road." me on the Damascus road." >> Absolutely. You've got to build a bridge >> Absolutely. You've got to build a bridge >> Absolutely. You've got to build a bridge to your You you connect with where they to your You you connect with where they to your You you connect with where they are. And I'm always Greg, and this is are. And I'm always Greg, and this is are. And I'm always Greg, and this is why people like us will always be why people like us will always be why people like us will always be misunderstood. It doesn't matter how misunderstood. It doesn't matter how misunderstood. It doesn't matter how theologically trained we may be because theologically trained we may be because theologically trained we may be because we are always going to try to minister we are always going to try to minister we are always going to try to minister to the back row. We are not going to try to the back row. We are not going to try to the back row. We are not going to try to impress the front row. to impress the front row. to impress the front row. >> Very true. >> Very true. >> Very true. >> And so, I think when people are like, "I >> And so, I think when people are like, "I >> And so, I think when people are like, "I want to be a great preacher." I'm trying want to be a great preacher." I'm trying want to be a great preacher." I'm trying to impress the front row. I'm like, "You to impress the front row. I'm like, "You to impress the front row. I'm like, "You already know the gospel. I'm trying to already know the gospel. I'm trying to already know the gospel. I'm trying to reach that person that's just come in reach that person that's just come in reach that person that's just come in and has either, you know, doesn't know and has either, you know, doesn't know and has either, you know, doesn't know who she woke up next to the day before who she woke up next to the day before who she woke up next to the day before the night before." I'm going, "I want the night before." I'm going, "I want the night before." I'm going, "I want her to know the love and the grace of her to know the love and the grace of her to know the love and the grace of God." Like the Samaritan woman who God." Like the Samaritan woman who God." Like the Samaritan woman who actually went back and said to the guys actually went back and said to the guys actually went back and said to the guys in a village, "Let me tell you about a in a village, "Let me tell you about a in a village, "Let me tell you about a man who told me everything I've ever man who told me everything I've ever man who told me everything I've ever done." See, the gospel doesn't shame, done." See, the gospel doesn't shame, done." See, the gospel doesn't shame, but it shines a light on He's telling me but it shines a light on He's telling me but it shines a light on He's telling me everything and has forgiven me. Like everything and has forgiven me. Like everything and has forgiven me. Like there's not this shame that comes with there's not this shame that comes with there's not this shame that comes with it. And I think a lot of our preaching it. And I think a lot of our preaching it. And I think a lot of our preaching is so shame driven because it's not true is so shame driven because it's not true is so shame driven because it's not true gospel evangelism, which isn't going to gospel evangelism, which isn't going to gospel evangelism, which isn't going to shame someone into a decision. It's shame someone into a decision. It's shame someone into a decision. It's going to awaken only the Holy Spirit can going to awaken only the Holy Spirit can going to awaken only the Holy Spirit can do it. This life I can't number one I do it. This life I can't number one I do it. This life I can't number one I need forgiveness. Yes, and I can't need forgiveness. Yes, and I can't need forgiveness. Yes, and I can't awaken that in someone. Only the Holy awaken that in someone. Only the Holy awaken that in someone. Only the Holy Spirit of God can do that. But if you Spirit of God can do that. But if you Spirit of God can do that. But if you preach the word faithfully, God will do preach the word faithfully, God will do preach the word faithfully, God will do that. So I think a lot of times is we've that. So I think a lot of times is we've that. So I think a lot of times is we've so forgotten the lost or we think so forgotten the lost or we think so forgotten the lost or we think accommodating the lost and becoming like accommodating the lost and becoming like accommodating the lost and becoming like the lost is how you win the lost. And

the lost is how you win the lost. And the lost is how you win the lost. And you know, people will often say to me, I you know, people will often say to me, I you know, people will often say to me, I can't believe how many people get can't believe how many people get can't believe how many people get because Chris you're like unapologetic. because Chris you're like unapologetic. because Chris you're like unapologetic. I go, I know. I'm so hardcore in love I go, I know. I'm so hardcore in love I go, I know. I'm so hardcore in love like but I'm in it but not of it. So like but I'm in it but not of it. So like but I'm in it but not of it. So what has happened to the other side of what has happened to the other side of what has happened to the other side of the church is they're of it but not in the church is they're of it but not in the church is they're of it but not in it. And so it's like we're exactly the it. And so it's like we're exactly the it. And so it's like we're exactly the same values as the world and performance same values as the world and performance same values as the world and performance indicators as the world. In fact, doing indicators as the world. In fact, doing indicators as the world. In fact, doing a whole lot of things as the world a whole lot of things as the world a whole lot of things as the world except we're not in the world making a except we're not in the world making a except we're not in the world making a difference. But to truly difference. But to truly difference. But to truly you know, to truly see the light go on you know, to truly see the light go on you know, to truly see the light go on in the dark places. Number one, you've in the dark places. Number one, you've in the dark places. Number one, you've got to be in the dark places. So you've got to be in the dark places. So you've got to be in the dark places. So you've got to go where people are unwilling to got to go where people are unwilling to got to go where people are unwilling to go. go. go. They don't know what Job is or what job They don't know what Job is or what job They don't know what Job is or what job is or what you know, they wouldn't know. is or what you know, they wouldn't know. is or what you know, they wouldn't know. So me giving, you know, an exegetical So me giving, you know, an exegetical So me giving, you know, an exegetical sermon on the Levitical priesthood is sermon on the Levitical priesthood is sermon on the Levitical priesthood is not really going to not really going to not really going to um um um reach them. reach them. reach them. >> Well, I would like to hear it anyway cuz >> Well, I would like to hear it anyway cuz >> Well, I would like to hear it anyway cuz I think you you I think you you I think you you >> I might be able to turn it around. I'll >> I might be able to turn it around. I'll >> I might be able to turn it around. I'll >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> find a way. I'll >> find a way. I'll >> find a way. I'll I had to do the other day church the the I had to do the other day church the the I had to do the other day church the the daughters of Zelophehad had Numbers 26 daughters of Zelophehad had Numbers 26 daughters of Zelophehad had Numbers 26 to 36.

to 36. to 36. Turn that into the greatest evangelistic Turn that into the greatest evangelistic Turn that into the greatest evangelistic sermon. I'm going to take that on the sermon. I'm going to take that on the sermon. I'm going to take that on the road. Anyway, I'm just saying like truly road. Anyway, I'm just saying like truly road. Anyway, I'm just saying like truly who would have thought those five who would have thought those five who would have thought those five daughters but but um daughters but but um daughters but but um I say all that to go Of course I'm I say all that to go Of course I'm I say all that to go Of course I'm looking at every text through the lens looking at every text through the lens looking at every text through the lens of Christ and a risen ascended Christ of Christ and a risen ascended Christ of Christ and a risen ascended Christ that's coming back again. I take very that's coming back again. I take very that's coming back again. I take very seriously and I you know, people talk seriously and I you know, people talk seriously and I you know, people talk about how we look at the text. I truly about how we look at the text. I truly about how we look at the text. I truly understand that we're living between the understand that we're living between the understand that we're living between the two Advents of Christ. So, you Every two Advents of Christ. So, you Every two Advents of Christ. So, you Every church church church era, you Where do they Where are we era, you Where do they Where are we era, you Where do they Where are we located on the kingdom calendar? Well, located on the kingdom calendar? Well, located on the kingdom calendar? Well, Jesus, obviously, has, you know, risen Jesus, obviously, has, you know, risen Jesus, obviously, has, you know, risen and ascended. He's seated at the right and ascended. He's seated at the right and ascended. He's seated at the right hand of the Father. hand of the Father. hand of the Father. He's coming back. So, my job is to point He's coming back. So, my job is to point He's coming back. So, my job is to point towards the fact that he's coming back. towards the fact that he's coming back. towards the fact that he's coming back. Not Not Not in a weird way that's going to cause in a weird way that's going to cause in a weird way that's going to cause people to abdicate their responsibility people to abdicate their responsibility people to abdicate their responsibility here on Earth. It And I've proven that. here on Earth. It And I've proven that. here on Earth. It And I've proven that. I'm 60 years old. We've run a global I'm 60 years old. We've run a global I'm 60 years old. We've run a global anti-trafficking organization, extremely anti-trafficking organization, extremely anti-trafficking organization, extremely influential and effective by the grace influential and effective by the grace influential and effective by the grace of God uh around the world, worked with of God uh around the world, worked with of God uh around the world, worked with major governments all across the world.

major governments all across the world. major governments all across the world. So, I'm busy [clears throat] uh here on So, I'm busy [clears throat] uh here on So, I'm busy [clears throat] uh here on Earth um trying to bring a taste of Earth um trying to bring a taste of Earth um trying to bring a taste of heaven to Earth. And it hasn't made me heaven to Earth. And it hasn't made me heaven to Earth. And it hasn't made me done done done >> that think the most of the next life do >> that think the most of the next life do >> that think the most of the next life do the most in this life. the most in this life. the most in this life. >> the thing. >> the thing. >> the thing. >> And so, what you're saying is I'm doing >> And so, what you're saying is I'm doing >> And so, what you're saying is I'm doing things to help people, to get them, you things to help people, to get them, you things to help people, to get them, you know, have transformation of their life. know, have transformation of their life. know, have transformation of their life. However, I believe Jesus is coming. So, However, I believe Jesus is coming. So, However, I believe Jesus is coming. So, I'm not, you know, out of touch with I'm not, you know, out of touch with I'm not, you know, out of touch with reality, but I but I think this is reality, but I but I think this is reality, but I but I think this is important because this is a teaching important because this is a teaching important because this is a teaching uh sometimes called eschatology uh sometimes called eschatology uh sometimes called eschatology that has kind of fallen out of favor in that has kind of fallen out of favor in that has kind of fallen out of favor in the church today. And when I first came the church today. And when I first came the church today. And when I first came to Christ during the Jesus Movement in to Christ during the Jesus Movement in to Christ during the Jesus Movement in the '70s, the '70s, the '70s, you heard a lot of messages, Jesus is you heard a lot of messages, Jesus is you heard a lot of messages, Jesus is coming. We had bumper stickers on our coming. We had bumper stickers on our coming. We had bumper stickers on our car, Jesus is coming or in case of car, Jesus is coming or in case of car, Jesus is coming or in case of rapture, car will be unmanned. You know, rapture, car will be unmanned. You know, rapture, car will be unmanned. You know, but you know, and so we looked for the but you know, and so we looked for the but you know, and so we looked for the last 50 years ago, you guys missed it. last 50 years ago, you guys missed it. last 50 years ago, you guys missed it. Well, okay, but you know, we're 50 years Well, okay, but you know, we're 50 years Well, okay, but you know, we're 50 years closer. I What are we supposed to do? closer. I What are we supposed to do? closer. I What are we supposed to do? The Bible, you know, Jesus gave parables The Bible, you know, Jesus gave parables The Bible, you know, Jesus gave parables about that, but occupy till I come. Be about that, but occupy till I come. Be about that, but occupy till I come. Be busy until I come. Be doing the work of busy until I come. Be doing the work of busy until I come. Be doing the work of the Lord until I come. That seems to the Lord until I come. That seems to the Lord until I come. That seems to motivate you as well.

motivate you as well. motivate you as well. >> Well, totally. I mean, Paul wrote, "Be >> Well, totally. I mean, Paul wrote, "Be >> Well, totally. I mean, Paul wrote, "Be steadfast, immovable, always abounding steadfast, immovable, always abounding steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in in the work of the Lord, knowing that in in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is never in vain." the Lord your labor is never in vain." the Lord your labor is never in vain." So, I'm like, um of course, that's what So, I'm like, um of course, that's what So, I'm like, um of course, that's what I'm going to do, but I'm going to do, but I'm going to do, but anyone that is sort of cynical about anyone that is sort of cynical about anyone that is sort of cynical about eschatological teaching, I'm like, eschatological teaching, I'm like, eschatological teaching, I'm like, truly, Jesus didn't seem to have a truly, Jesus didn't seem to have a truly, Jesus didn't seem to have a problem with you know, he's he's got his problem with you know, he's he's got his problem with you know, he's he's got his discourses, discourses, discourses, Paul in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, the Paul in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, the Paul in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, the whole book of Revelation. I'm like, I'd whole book of Revelation. I'm like, I'd whole book of Revelation. I'm like, I'd say there's a fair chunk of the New say there's a fair chunk of the New say there's a fair chunk of the New Testament that's very geared towards Testament that's very geared towards Testament that's very geared towards that and you can't deny it and I'm not that and you can't deny it and I'm not that and you can't deny it and I'm not saying people that say, you're so saying people that say, you're so saying people that say, you're so heavenly minded you're no earthly good. heavenly minded you're no earthly good. heavenly minded you're no earthly good. Well, then you're not really heavenly Well, then you're not really heavenly Well, then you're not really heavenly minded. minded. minded. >> Well, I know people are so earthly >> Well, I know people are so earthly >> Well, I know people are so earthly minded, maybe they're no heavenly good. minded, maybe they're no heavenly good. minded, maybe they're no heavenly good. >> Well, and that's the I think that's the >> Well, and that's the I think that's the >> Well, and that's the I think that's the flip side of this generation is that we flip side of this generation is that we flip side of this generation is that we somehow think and I somehow think and I somehow think and I now you're really getting into what I'm now you're really getting into what I'm now you're really getting into what I'm thinking. I think, you know, when the thinking. I think, you know, when the thinking. I think, you know, when the Reformation happened and Reformation happened and Reformation happened and Luther's like, hang on a minute, good Luther's like, hang on a minute, good Luther's like, hang on a minute, good works can't save you, you know, and and works can't save you, you know, and and works can't save you, you know, and and indulgences aren't going to save you. indulgences aren't going to save you. indulgences aren't going to save you. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Um >> Um >> Um I think now, especially in the last I think now, especially in the last I think now, especially in the last decade or so, we're sort of replacing decade or so, we're sort of replacing decade or so, we're sort of replacing one good work if I can do enough good one good work if I can do enough good one good work if I can do enough good works, especially ones that are very works, especially ones that are very works, especially ones that are very socially acceptable. If I could do socially acceptable. If I could do socially acceptable. If I could do that's what's going to save me. Enough that's what's going to save me. Enough that's what's going to save me. Enough social, you know, justice-y good works.

social, you know, justice-y good works. social, you know, justice-y good works. And I'm like, y'all, if you think it's And I'm like, y'all, if you think it's And I'm like, y'all, if you think it's all going to get fixed before Jesus all going to get fixed before Jesus all going to get fixed before Jesus there'd be no reason for him to come there'd be no reason for him to come there'd be no reason for him to come back. That sky is going to split. He is back. That sky is going to split. He is back. That sky is going to split. He is coming back, however you think that's coming back, however you think that's coming back, however you think that's going to happen, okay, but he is coming going to happen, okay, but he is coming going to happen, okay, but he is coming back to renew all things and and and back to renew all things and and and back to renew all things and and and there is there is there is a judgment that is coming. Like, I don't a judgment that is coming. Like, I don't a judgment that is coming. Like, I don't I don't know what to say to you. It's in I don't know what to say to you. It's in I don't know what to say to you. It's in It's in the book, so It's in the book, so It's in the book, so >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> you thinking me not saying it because >> you thinking me not saying it because >> you thinking me not saying it because you're all worried that well, for 50 you're all worried that well, for 50 you're all worried that well, for 50 years ago you'll try to scare people years ago you'll try to scare people years ago you'll try to scare people into heaven and you know, if the if you into heaven and you know, if the if you into heaven and you know, if the if you the bus the youth camp story, you know, the bus the youth camp story, you know, the bus the youth camp story, you know, if the bus hit a if the bus hit a if the bus hit a a wall on the way home and everyone a wall on the way home and everyone a wall on the way home and everyone died, are you ready to meet Jesus? I go, died, are you ready to meet Jesus? I go, died, are you ready to meet Jesus? I go, that's not a bad question to ask people that's not a bad question to ask people that's not a bad question to ask people every day. I go, so I don't know why every day. I go, so I don't know why every day. I go, so I don't know why you're being cynical. So, I think what you're being cynical. So, I think what you're being cynical. So, I think what some people have taken is some people have taken is some people have taken is a few things that perhaps in themselves a few things that perhaps in themselves a few things that perhaps in themselves maybe didn't resonate with them or they maybe didn't resonate with them or they maybe didn't resonate with them or they feel hurt them in evangelical culture feel hurt them in evangelical culture feel hurt them in evangelical culture and want to throw the baby out with the and want to throw the baby out with the and want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and I'm like, y'all, that bathwater and I'm like, y'all, that bathwater and I'm like, y'all, that doesn't mean these things are not true. doesn't mean these things are not true. doesn't mean these things are not true. Well, for every man has to be destined Well, for every man has to be destined Well, for every man has to be destined to die once and then the judgment. I to die once and then the judgment. I to die once and then the judgment. I didn't write that. The writer to the didn't write that. The writer to the didn't write that. The writer to the Hebrews wrote that. It's in the Hebrews wrote that. It's in the Hebrews wrote that. It's in the scripture.

scripture. scripture. That we will stand before the judgment That we will stand before the judgment That we will stand before the judgment throne of Christ. It will happen and throne of Christ. It will happen and throne of Christ. It will happen and we'll we'll give an account. we'll we'll give an account. we'll we'll give an account. Even us that are saved for our life here Even us that are saved for our life here Even us that are saved for our life here on earth. Yes. Are there eternal on earth. Yes. Are there eternal on earth. Yes. Are there eternal rewards? Yes. Do you want a few? rewards? Yes. Do you want a few? rewards? Yes. Do you want a few? Perhaps. Like, so me not talking about Perhaps. Like, so me not talking about Perhaps. Like, so me not talking about it because it because it because some people, you know, some people, you know, some people, you know, were erroneous in their teaching. Well, were erroneous in their teaching. Well, were erroneous in their teaching. Well, you could go throughout all of church you could go throughout all of church you could go throughout all of church history and go at different times in history and go at different times in history and go at different times in church history there was different church history there was different church history there was different emphasis that were right, wrong, or emphasis that were right, wrong, or emphasis that were right, wrong, or indifferent. But if we're indifferent. But if we're indifferent. But if we're preaching or teaching the whole counsel preaching or teaching the whole counsel preaching or teaching the whole counsel of God of God of God for us that are living this side of the for us that are living this side of the for us that are living this side of the cross and pointing people towards Jesus, cross and pointing people towards Jesus, cross and pointing people towards Jesus, I'd say I'd say I'd say we ought to focus there. we ought to focus there. we ought to focus there. And churches and leaders that are scared And churches and leaders that are scared And churches and leaders that are scared to do that, either because of the to do that, either because of the to do that, either because of the backlash to what sort of has happened in backlash to what sort of has happened in backlash to what sort of has happened in evangelicalism or doing it, I'm not sure evangelicalism or doing it, I'm not sure evangelicalism or doing it, I'm not sure then we can say we really love people. then we can say we really love people. then we can say we really love people. But here's the the deal. I've drunk the But here's the the deal. I've drunk the But here's the the deal. I've drunk the Kool-Aid. I believe it. And so, Kool-Aid. I believe it. And so, Kool-Aid. I believe it. And so, I remember once in Australia before we I remember once in Australia before we I remember once in Australia before we moved to America, there was a major moved to America, there was a major moved to America, there was a major convention of a particular denomination convention of a particular denomination convention of a particular denomination and um and um and um the convention center was full and the convention center was full and the convention center was full and Australia's most famous atheist and he Australia's most famous atheist and he Australia's most famous atheist and he was a writer in the newspaper The was a writer in the newspaper The was a writer in the newspaper The Australian. And everybody would know his Australian. And everybody would know his Australian. And everybody would know his name. Most famous atheist in Australia.

name. Most famous atheist in Australia. name. Most famous atheist in Australia. Very intelligent. Like on all the TV Very intelligent. Like on all the TV Very intelligent. Like on all the TV shows, you know, all that. Very smart. shows, you know, all that. Very smart. shows, you know, all that. Very smart. But he stood up. He came, they invited But he stood up. He came, they invited But he stood up. He came, they invited him to the conference for a special sort him to the conference for a special sort him to the conference for a special sort of Q&A thing. But he said to all the of Q&A thing. But he said to all the of Q&A thing. But he said to all the pastors in that room, I mean, I could pastors in that room, I mean, I could pastors in that room, I mean, I could cry saying this, cry saying this, cry saying this, he goes, one of the main reasons that he goes, one of the main reasons that he goes, one of the main reasons that I've not I've not I've not yet yet yet he didn't say converted, but he said why he didn't say converted, but he said why he didn't say converted, but he said why do really believe what you're all do really believe what you're all do really believe what you're all talking about? Um he said because I talking about? Um he said because I talking about? Um he said because I don't think you really believe it. don't think you really believe it. don't think you really believe it. Because if you believed what you tell me Because if you believed what you tell me Because if you believed what you tell me you believe about this resurrected Jesus you believe about this resurrected Jesus you believe about this resurrected Jesus that's supposed to be coming back again, that's supposed to be coming back again, that's supposed to be coming back again, >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> I wouldn't be living how you're living. >> I wouldn't be living how you're living. >> I wouldn't be living how you're living. There would be a whole different There would be a whole different There would be a whole different urgency. But the fact And he literally urgency. But the fact And he literally urgency. But the fact And he literally said that. It was It was like a mic drop said that. It was It was like a mic drop said that. It was It was like a mic drop in this arena of pastors in this arena of pastors in this arena of pastors um because he said I know I don't really um because he said I know I don't really um because he said I know I don't really believe it because I don't think you believe it because I don't think you believe it because I don't think you believe it. And so believe it. And so believe it. And so >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> I could be wrong, but at least you go >> I could be wrong, but at least you go >> I could be wrong, but at least you go well, she She was sincerely wrong. She well, she She was sincerely wrong. She well, she She was sincerely wrong. She was sincerely drank the Kool-Aid and was sincerely drank the Kool-Aid and was sincerely drank the Kool-Aid and believed that there is a heaven, there believed that there is a heaven, there believed that there is a heaven, there is a hell, that Jesus did die for our is a hell, that Jesus did die for our is a hell, that Jesus did die for our sins on the cross, and that Jesus was sins on the cross, and that Jesus was sins on the cross, and that Jesus was buried and he rose again, and he buried and he rose again, and he buried and he rose again, and he ascended, and he is seated at the right ascended, and he is seated at the right ascended, and he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he is coming hand of the Father, and he is coming hand of the Father, and he is coming back, and we will give an account for back, and we will give an account for back, and we will give an account for our life.

our life. our life. I actually really believe that stuff. I actually really believe that stuff. I actually really believe that stuff. And I'm not It's not like I'm trying to And I'm not It's not like I'm trying to And I'm not It's not like I'm trying to scare anyone into it. I love them so scare anyone into it. I love them so scare anyone into it. I love them so much. much. much. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I want them to go to heaven. >> I want them to go to heaven. >> I want them to go to heaven. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And people say Chris, that's old school. >> And people say Chris, that's old school. >> And people say Chris, that's old school. I used to think that was the gospel I used to think that was the gospel I used to think that was the gospel truth. truth. truth. >> Yeah, you're old school. That's >> Yeah, you're old school. That's >> Yeah, you're old school. That's >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> what I know. Well, in 1 John, he that >> what I know. Well, in 1 John, he that >> what I know. Well, in 1 John, he that has this hope, that is the hope of the has this hope, that is the hope of the has this hope, that is the hope of the Lord's return, purifies himself even as Lord's return, purifies himself even as Lord's return, purifies himself even as he is pure. So, I think if we're walking he is pure. So, I think if we're walking he is pure. So, I think if we're walking with God, sort of like when we were with God, sort of like when we were with God, sort of like when we were kids, you know, maybe we would get in kids, you know, maybe we would get in kids, you know, maybe we would get in trouble and our mother would warn us, we trouble and our mother would warn us, we trouble and our mother would warn us, we just wait until your father gets home. just wait until your father gets home. just wait until your father gets home. So, we lived in fear until he got there. So, we lived in fear until he got there. So, we lived in fear until he got there. But if we're But if we're But if we're good little boys and girls and didn't do good little boys and girls and didn't do good little boys and girls and didn't do anything wrong, we couldn't wait for anything wrong, we couldn't wait for anything wrong, we couldn't wait for daddy to get home. Cuz I didn't have a daddy to get home. Cuz I didn't have a daddy to get home. Cuz I didn't have a daddy, I'm just drawing this analogy. daddy, I'm just drawing this analogy. daddy, I'm just drawing this analogy. You know, so I think if we're walking You know, so I think if we're walking You know, so I think if we're walking with God, we look forward to his return. with God, we look forward to his return. with God, we look forward to his return. And like John, we say, "Even so, come, And like John, we say, "Even so, come, And like John, we say, "Even so, come, Lord Jesus." But if we are like, "Oh, I Lord Jesus." But if we are like, "Oh, I Lord Jesus." But if we are like, "Oh, I don't know, you know, I you know, I don't know, you know, I you know, I don't know, you know, I you know, I I don't you know, cuz you're living I don't you know, cuz you're living I don't you know, cuz you're living wrong, or maybe I don't even want to wrong, or maybe I don't even want to wrong, or maybe I don't even want to talk about that." That could be almost a talk about that." That could be almost a talk about that." That could be almost a litmus test of where you're at litmus test of where you're at litmus test of where you're at spiritually. You know, so we should spiritually. You know, so we should spiritually. You know, so we should focus on that again. So, let me shift focus on that again. So, let me shift focus on that again. So, let me shift gears. I I don't even really need to gears. I I don't even really need to gears. I I don't even really need to follow any questions here. You're so follow any questions here. You're so follow any questions here. You're so interesting and easy to talk to, but interesting and easy to talk to, but interesting and easy to talk to, but what is the hardest prayer you've ever what is the hardest prayer you've ever what is the hardest prayer you've ever prayed?"

>> You know, there came a point >> You know, there came a point um um um I think somewhere around 2018, 2019, it I think somewhere around 2018, 2019, it I think somewhere around 2018, 2019, it was was was uh just uh just uh just you obviously we're we're on the front you obviously we're we're on the front you obviously we're we're on the front line when you think of sort of line when you think of sort of line when you think of sort of you know, rescuing the victims of human you know, rescuing the victims of human you know, rescuing the victims of human trafficking. You're you're in darkness trafficking. You're you're in darkness trafficking. You're you're in darkness for for people that say they don't for for people that say they don't for for people that say they don't believe in believe in believe in that there is a devil or evil. that there is a devil or evil. that there is a devil or evil. >> your organization. We've referenced this >> your organization. We've referenced this >> your organization. We've referenced this few times. few times. few times. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> A21. >> A21. >> A21. >> A21, yes. >> A21, yes. >> A21, yes. >> offices all around the world. >> offices all around the world. >> offices all around the world. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> And and the mission of A21 is what >> And and the mission of A21 is what >> And and the mission of A21 is what exactly? exactly? exactly? >> Well, you know, thing is to abolish >> Well, you know, thing is to abolish >> Well, you know, thing is to abolish slavery everywhere forever, but it's we slavery everywhere forever, but it's we slavery everywhere forever, but it's we we rescue we rescue we rescue uh the victims, we restore survivors, uh the victims, we restore survivors, uh the victims, we restore survivors, and we do prevention and awareness. So, and we do prevention and awareness. So, and we do prevention and awareness. So, now we just had the World Cup, so a lot now we just had the World Cup, so a lot now we just had the World Cup, so a lot of the ads and billboards that you've of the ads and billboards that you've of the ads and billboards that you've seen airports all around the world um seen airports all around the world um seen airports all around the world um that have been running with FIFA. We that have been running with FIFA. We that have been running with FIFA. We help train a lot of the staff. We do a help train a lot of the staff. We do a help train a lot of the staff. We do a lot of prevention and awareness. We make lot of prevention and awareness. We make lot of prevention and awareness. We make films that help people realize stuff, films that help people realize stuff, films that help people realize stuff, and we also have uh and we also have uh and we also have uh you know, um aftercare facilities for you know, um aftercare facilities for you know, um aftercare facilities for the survivors of traffickers, and we the survivors of traffickers, and we the survivors of traffickers, and we work with law enforcement around the work with law enforcement around the work with law enforcement around the world to um catch the perpetrators and world to um catch the perpetrators and world to um catch the perpetrators and then represent them legally. So, it's a then represent them legally. So, it's a then represent them legally. So, it's a holistic the whole thing. And so, in all holistic the whole thing. And so, in all holistic the whole thing. And so, in all of that um of that um of that um I always say if you you don't believe I always say if you you don't believe I always say if you you don't believe that there is a devil and that there's that there is a devil and that there's that there is a devil and that there's evil, come and work with me for 1 day evil, come and work with me for 1 day evil, come and work with me for 1 day and you'll very quickly realize that and you'll very quickly realize that and you'll very quickly realize that there is evil there is evil there is evil on the earth. But, I remember there was on the earth. But, I remember there was on the earth. But, I remember there was it was just this bombardment and I it was just this bombardment and I it was just this bombardment and I couldn't catch a breath and you know, couldn't catch a breath and you know, couldn't catch a breath and you know, just there was a lot of disappointment just there was a lot of disappointment just there was a lot of disappointment and I felt um a and I felt um a and I felt um a you know, just a a lot of attack. And I you know, just a a lot of attack. And I you know, just a a lot of attack. And I remember one night I this August is the

remember one night I this August is the remember one night I this August is the hardest prayer. Um I came home hardest prayer. Um I came home hardest prayer. Um I came home and Nick and Nick and Nick uh my husband to relax. My husband uh my husband to relax. My husband uh my husband to relax. My husband watches shows like uh movies on the Navy watches shows like uh movies on the Navy watches shows like uh movies on the Navy SEALs, and there was this he was he just SEALs, and there was this he was he just SEALs, and there was this he was he just I don't know, just sits there and this I don't know, just sits there and this I don't know, just sits there and this stuff. And I didn't know, of course, not stuff. And I didn't know, of course, not stuff. And I didn't know, of course, not being American, I didn't know that there being American, I didn't know that there being American, I didn't know that there was this thing called Hell Week. And was this thing called Hell Week. And was this thing called Hell Week. And okay, you're like, okay, so I come home, okay, you're like, okay, so I come home, okay, you're like, okay, so I come home, he's watching this series called Hell he's watching this series called Hell he's watching this series called Hell Week. I'm thinking like, what is this? Week. I'm thinking like, what is this? Week. I'm thinking like, what is this? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] And then I was devastated. And then I was devastated. And then I was devastated. My female side came on cuz I felt sorry My female side came on cuz I felt sorry My female side came on cuz I felt sorry for all these guys because the whole for all these guys because the whole for all these guys because the whole purpose of Hell Week is to break them purpose of Hell Week is to break them purpose of Hell Week is to break them down down down emotionally, psychologically. These guys emotionally, psychologically. These guys emotionally, psychologically. These guys don't sleep. don't sleep. don't sleep. They're the men in charge are yelling at They're the men in charge are yelling at They're the men in charge are yelling at them like they're nothing. And I didn't them like they're nothing. And I didn't them like they're nothing. And I didn't realize the whole goal was to ring the realize the whole goal was to ring the realize the whole goal was to ring the bell in the middle of the course so that bell in the middle of the course so that bell in the middle of the course so that if you're going to break, break here, if you're going to break, break here, if you're going to break, break here, not out there. And so okay. So I'm like not out there. And so okay. So I'm like not out there. And so okay. So I'm like thinking they're very mean people. But thinking they're very mean people. But thinking they're very mean people. But anyway, so my husband's like loving it.

anyway, so my husband's like loving it. anyway, so my husband's like loving it. There was this one scene with the the There was this one scene with the the There was this one scene with the the guys jump out of the helicopter. I think guys jump out of the helicopter. I think guys jump out of the helicopter. I think it was shot down here in San Diego. They it was shot down here in San Diego. They it was shot down here in San Diego. They jump out of the helicopter, they have to jump out of the helicopter, they have to jump out of the helicopter, they have to swim like a mile to shore, and then they swim like a mile to shore, and then they swim like a mile to shore, and then they do their stuff. But remember, they do their stuff. But remember, they do their stuff. But remember, they haven't slept for a week. They all the haven't slept for a week. They all the haven't slept for a week. They all the things. things. things. And I remember this one thing, the guy And I remember this one thing, the guy And I remember this one thing, the guy jumped out and I started crying. And my jumped out and I started crying. And my jumped out and I started crying. And my husband goes, Christine, like it's so husband goes, Christine, like it's so husband goes, Christine, like it's so rare I would jump I would cry for a man rare I would jump I would cry for a man rare I would jump I would cry for a man jumping out of a helicopter. jumping out of a helicopter. jumping out of a helicopter. But I said to him, you know, honey, But I said to him, you know, honey, But I said to him, you know, honey, I said, this is how I think I feel. And I said, this is how I think I feel. And I said, this is how I think I feel. And by this stage we'd been by this stage we'd been by this stage we'd been you know, I've been going since 1990 you know, I've been going since 1990 you know, I've been going since 1990 full-time vocational ministry. full-time vocational ministry. full-time vocational ministry. And this was just a crazy And it was a And this was just a crazy And it was a And this was just a crazy And it was a crazy season anyway in the world at that crazy season anyway in the world at that crazy season anyway in the world at that time. So you you're running a global time. So you you're running a global time. So you you're running a global organization, there's so much going on. organization, there's so much going on. organization, there's so much going on. And I said to him, I feel like And I said to him, I feel like And I said to him, I feel like the the the Lord's like, okay, let's the the the Lord's like, okay, let's the the the Lord's like, okay, let's launch another mission, kind of another launch another mission, kind of another launch another mission, kind of another assignment, whatever it might be. Could assignment, whatever it might be. Could assignment, whatever it might be. Could be with your kids, it could be in any be with your kids, it could be in any be with your kids, it could be in any realm of life. And I said, I know I can realm of life. And I said, I know I can realm of life. And I said, I know I can do it. I got the muscle memory, I've got do it. I got the muscle memory, I've got do it. I got the muscle memory, I've got the strength, the the strength, the the strength, the I said, but for the first time in my I said, but for the first time in my I said, but for the first time in my Christian life, and I think at that Christian life, and I think at that Christian life, and I think at that point it was 30 plus years, you know, 38 point it was 30 plus years, you know, 38 point it was 30 plus years, you know, 38 years, years, years, I said, I I don't know if I want to I said, I I don't know if I want to I said, I I don't know if I want to because I know the cost.

because I know the cost. because I know the cost. The difference I go, you know, when The difference I go, you know, when The difference I go, you know, when you're younger, you're like, God, here I you're younger, you're like, God, here I you're younger, you're like, God, here I am, send me, I'll go anywhere, I'll do am, send me, I'll go anywhere, I'll do am, send me, I'll go anywhere, I'll do anything. And then you increasingly know anything. And then you increasingly know anything. And then you increasingly know the pain involved with each with each the pain involved with each with each the pain involved with each with each yes. That's the thing is I think when yes. That's the thing is I think when yes. That's the thing is I think when you're young and people say, you're young and people say, you're young and people say, >> [gasps] >> [gasps] >> [gasps] >> I just want to be a famous Christian, I >> I just want to be a famous Christian, I >> I just want to be a famous Christian, I want to be a big, you know, YouTube want to be a big, you know, YouTube want to be a big, you know, YouTube influencer or something. And I'm influencer or something. And I'm influencer or something. And I'm thinking, you have no idea if you truly thinking, you have no idea if you truly thinking, you have no idea if you truly believe in spiritual warfare and what's believe in spiritual warfare and what's believe in spiritual warfare and what's coming at you if you're coming at you if you're coming at you if you're trying to advance the kingdom of God. trying to advance the kingdom of God. trying to advance the kingdom of God. And I said, I don't know if I want to. And I said, I don't know if I want to. And I said, I don't know if I want to. And when you say the hardest prayer, it And when you say the hardest prayer, it And when you say the hardest prayer, it was that night with Nick. Um was that night with Nick. Um was that night with Nick. Um deeply painful, but the prayer of saying deeply painful, but the prayer of saying deeply painful, but the prayer of saying help me to want to. Again, like to get help me to want to. Again, like to get help me to want to. Again, like to get my want back for want of a better word. my want back for want of a better word. my want back for want of a better word. Um and you know, we prayed and and you Um and you know, we prayed and and you Um and you know, we prayed and and you know, I'm loving it like here I am 8 know, I'm loving it like here I am 8 know, I'm loving it like here I am 8 years later sitting here with you, still years later sitting here with you, still years later sitting here with you, still full of fire, still not. But I think full of fire, still not. But I think full of fire, still not. But I think that would be the closest I ever came. that would be the closest I ever came. that would be the closest I ever came. And I said to him, you know, as long as And I said to him, you know, as long as And I said to him, you know, as long as I don't do anything I don't do anything I don't do anything dramatic, you know, if I don't dramatic, you know, if I don't dramatic, you know, if I don't have any sort of immoral immoral commit have any sort of immoral immoral commit have any sort of immoral immoral commit immorality or, you know, steal the money immorality or, you know, steal the money immorality or, you know, steal the money or if I don't do anything big, or if I don't do anything big, or if I don't do anything big, there's enough momentum with 30-odd there's enough momentum with 30-odd there's enough momentum with 30-odd years of ministry years of ministry years of ministry that I could just cruise my way into that I could just cruise my way into that I could just cruise my way into heaven. Don't commit any of the big sins heaven. Don't commit any of the big sins heaven. Don't commit any of the big sins and just cruise and I go, and no one and just cruise and I go, and no one and just cruise and I go, and no one would ever know because they think, would ever know because they think, would ever know because they think, Chris, you did so well all these years, Chris, you did so well all these years, Chris, you did so well all these years, you know, look what you've done. And I you know, look what you've done. And I you know, look what you've done. And I started crying and this is where I knew started crying and this is where I knew started crying and this is where I knew God was working.

God was working. God was working. And it was just Nick and I, nobody on And it was just Nick and I, nobody on And it was just Nick and I, nobody on earth would have known. And I said to earth would have known. And I said to earth would have known. And I said to him, I go, but Jesus would know. Jesus him, I go, but Jesus would know. Jesus him, I go, but Jesus would know. Jesus would know that I wasn't all in till the would know that I wasn't all in till the would know that I wasn't all in till the end. And um end. And um end. And um it was like something it was like something it was like something broke in that moment. And then the Holy broke in that moment. And then the Holy broke in that moment. And then the Holy Spirit, as only he can do, Spirit, as only he can do, Spirit, as only he can do, did something, but it was that okay, did something, but it was that okay, did something, but it was that okay, that that to me was my hardest prayer. that that to me was my hardest prayer. that that to me was my hardest prayer. >> Well, you I think you like a challenge. >> Well, you I think you like a challenge. >> Well, you I think you like a challenge. And you because of your upbringing, And you because of your upbringing, And you because of your upbringing, you've been uniquely prepared you've been uniquely prepared you've been uniquely prepared to answer those challenges. God has been to answer those challenges. God has been to answer those challenges. God has been preparing you for that moment and I it's preparing you for that moment and I it's preparing you for that moment and I it's so clear what you're doing. That is so so clear what you're doing. That is so so clear what you're doing. That is so unique cuz I've never heard Well, I've unique cuz I've never heard Well, I've unique cuz I've never heard Well, I've never heard a story like yours before. never heard a story like yours before. never heard a story like yours before. All of these elements of your childhood, All of these elements of your childhood, All of these elements of your childhood, your conversion, your conversion, your conversion, then you're an evangelist, then you're then you're an evangelist, then you're then you're an evangelist, then you're an exhorter, and then you're doing this an exhorter, and then you're doing this an exhorter, and then you're doing this ministry for people who have been ministry for people who have been ministry for people who have been trafficked and it's going all around the trafficked and it's going all around the trafficked and it's going all around the world. Yeah, yeah, it's just such an world. Yeah, yeah, it's just such an world. Yeah, yeah, it's just such an unusual combination of things, but but unusual combination of things, but but unusual combination of things, but but it's, you know, it's what God has it's, you know, it's what God has it's, you know, it's what God has prepared you for and it's in we're a prepared you for and it's in we're a prepared you for and it's in we're a better place for it. So, you've better place for it. So, you've better place for it. So, you've mentioned your husband many times. You mentioned your husband many times. You mentioned your husband many times. You Did you say you're married 30 years?

Did you say you're married 30 years? Did you say you're married 30 years? >> 30 years, yeah. So, you know, um >> 30 years, yeah. So, you know, um >> 30 years, yeah. So, you know, um >> A lot of marriages don't make it that >> A lot of marriages don't make it that >> A lot of marriages don't make it that long. That That's a great long. That That's a great long. That That's a great accomplishment. Uh so, accomplishment. Uh so, accomplishment. Uh so, do you have any secrets or things that do you have any secrets or things that do you have any secrets or things that maybe someone who's just gotten married maybe someone who's just gotten married maybe someone who's just gotten married could learn from uh Chris and Nick about could learn from uh Chris and Nick about could learn from uh Chris and Nick about uh having uh having uh having cuz you spend all this time together on cuz you spend all this time together on cuz you spend all this time together on airplanes, hotel rooms. You're together airplanes, hotel rooms. You're together airplanes, hotel rooms. You're together constantly. constantly. constantly. Give us a few takeaway truths from how Give us a few takeaway truths from how Give us a few takeaway truths from how to have a good strong marriage. to have a good strong marriage. to have a good strong marriage. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, there is no doubt. Um Nick and I married there is no doubt. Um Nick and I married there is no doubt. Um Nick and I married I I obviously we love each other and I I obviously we love each other and I I obviously we love each other and loved each other, but even love wouldn't loved each other, but even love wouldn't loved each other, but even love wouldn't have been enough in of itself. We have been enough in of itself. We have been enough in of itself. We married around purpose, the kingdom of married around purpose, the kingdom of married around purpose, the kingdom of God. So, purpose has kept us for all God. So, purpose has kept us for all God. So, purpose has kept us for all these years and there's these years and there's these years and there's You know, You know, You know, different strokes for different folks, different strokes for different folks, different strokes for different folks, but for us, um but for us, um but for us, um we were both all in with Jesus before we we were both all in with Jesus before we we were both all in with Jesus before we ever met each other and so, ever met each other and so, ever met each other and so, um um um it was going to be all or nothing. You it was going to be all or nothing. You it was going to be all or nothing. You know, so and I think we realistically know, so and I think we realistically know, so and I think we realistically thought we were going to be thought we were going to be thought we were going to be missionaries. We we are, so we still missionaries. We we are, so we still missionaries. We we are, so we still continue to live on mission and but we continue to live on mission and but we continue to live on mission and but we probably thought in the more traditional probably thought in the more traditional probably thought in the more traditional sense that we were going to go somewhere sense that we were going to go somewhere sense that we were going to go somewhere probably like, you know, Bulgaria, probably like, you know, Bulgaria, probably like, you know, Bulgaria, Romania, Albania and and and we're able Romania, Albania and and and we're able Romania, Albania and and and we're able to serve that in a whole different way to serve that in a whole different way to serve that in a whole different way now. But so for us now. But so for us now. But so for us what has kept us what has kept us what has kept us it is Jesus. People will go yes, but and it is Jesus. People will go yes, but and it is Jesus. People will go yes, but and I'm like no, yes I'm like no, yes I'm like no, yes period. Um of course because I think the period. Um of course because I think the period. Um of course because I think the more you're like Jesus and I'm not more you're like Jesus and I'm not more you're like Jesus and I'm not trying to be super spiritual. I'm just

trying to be super spiritual. I'm just trying to be super spiritual. I'm just going so going so going so the closer Nick and I both with Jesus, the closer Nick and I both with Jesus, the closer Nick and I both with Jesus, surely the fruit of the spirit would surely the fruit of the spirit would surely the fruit of the spirit would emanate more from our lives. So when I emanate more from our lives. So when I emanate more from our lives. So when I said to each other, so there's more said to each other, so there's more said to each other, so there's more love, there's more joy, there's more love, there's more joy, there's more love, there's more joy, there's more peace, there's more goodness, there's peace, there's more goodness, there's peace, there's more goodness, there's more long-suffering. Well, what do you more long-suffering. Well, what do you more long-suffering. Well, what do you need for a good marriage? need for a good marriage? need for a good marriage? Long-suffering, self-control, patience, Long-suffering, self-control, patience, Long-suffering, self-control, patience, goodness, kindness. I sound like the goodness, kindness. I sound like the goodness, kindness. I sound like the fruit of the spirit. So I figured the fruit of the spirit. So I figured the fruit of the spirit. So I figured the more we're closer to I think we really more we're closer to I think we really more we're closer to I think we really complicate a lot of this stuff. I say to complicate a lot of this stuff. I say to complicate a lot of this stuff. I say to people I just be a Christian. So it people I just be a Christian. So it people I just be a Christian. So it truly is help that takes a lot of the truly is help that takes a lot of the truly is help that takes a lot of the arguing arguing arguing and tension out. Are you still going to and tension out. Are you still going to and tension out. Are you still going to have it? Yes, cuz we're humans and we're have it? Yes, cuz we're humans and we're have it? Yes, cuz we're humans and we're there, but a lot of unnecessary conflict there, but a lot of unnecessary conflict there, but a lot of unnecessary conflict can actually be solved if we're in the can actually be solved if we're in the can actually be solved if we're in the word, if the joy of the Lord truly is word, if the joy of the Lord truly is word, if the joy of the Lord truly is our strength our strength our strength and we're in worship because then a lot and we're in worship because then a lot and we're in worship because then a lot of that business I'm not expecting from of that business I'm not expecting from of that business I'm not expecting from Nick what I can only get from Jesus. Nick what I can only get from Jesus. Nick what I can only get from Jesus. >> That's a good point. >> That's a good point. >> That's a good point. >> And I think that saves a lot of hassle. >> And I think that saves a lot of hassle. >> And I think that saves a lot of hassle. And Nick's certainly not expecting from And Nick's certainly not expecting from And Nick's certainly not expecting from me what he can only get from Jesus. I me what he can only get from Jesus. I me what he can only get from Jesus. I mean just because I might have a mean just because I might have a mean just because I might have a platform or a visible ministry, number platform or a visible ministry, number platform or a visible ministry, number one, uh one, uh one, uh he's the head of our home and our he's the head of our home and our he's the head of our home and our family. So that that has nothing to do family. So that that has nothing to do family. So that that has nothing to do with that.

with that. with that. Um but there is no Um but there is no Um but there is no competition cuz what are we in competition cuz what are we in competition cuz what are we in competition with? We're both under Jesus competition with? We're both under Jesus competition with? We're both under Jesus serving the Lord. Do you know what I'm serving the Lord. Do you know what I'm serving the Lord. Do you know what I'm saying? And so and in our home saying? And so and in our home saying? And so and in our home um I always say and I say this to the um I always say and I say this to the um I always say and I say this to the women. I go women. I go women. I go if a man truly does love his wife as if a man truly does love his wife as if a man truly does love his wife as Christ loves the church. So that's the Christ loves the church. So that's the Christ loves the church. So that's the caveat. If he really does. caveat. If he really does. caveat. If he really does. I think it's natural for a woman to want I think it's natural for a woman to want I think it's natural for a woman to want to to to I do. Like I mean I'm like awesome. I'll I do. Like I mean I'm like awesome. I'll I do. Like I mean I'm like awesome. I'll follow you as you follow Christ. That's follow you as you follow Christ. That's follow you as you follow Christ. That's great. The caveat is of course as Paul great. The caveat is of course as Paul great. The caveat is of course as Paul wrote wrote wrote in Ephesians that a man is to love his in Ephesians that a man is to love his in Ephesians that a man is to love his wife as Christ loves the church. I think wife as Christ loves the church. I think wife as Christ loves the church. I think there's no better deal. I think you there's no better deal. I think you there's no better deal. I think you know, we argue so much about all the know, we argue so much about all the know, we argue so much about all the rest I go oh honey, that's a no-brainer. rest I go oh honey, that's a no-brainer. rest I go oh honey, that's a no-brainer. If he loves you like Christ loves the If he loves you like Christ loves the If he loves you like Christ loves the church we're home. church we're home. church we're home. >> Well, just as we you know, we love him >> Well, just as we you know, we love him >> Well, just as we you know, we love him because he first loved us. because he first loved us. because he first loved us. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Our love for Jesus is a reaction to his >> Our love for Jesus is a reaction to his >> Our love for Jesus is a reaction to his love for us. So if a husband is loving a love for us. So if a husband is loving a love for us. So if a husband is loving a wife as he should and that's a tall wife as he should and that's a tall wife as he should and that's a tall order by the way Christine. order by the way Christine. order by the way Christine. >> It's a very tall order. That's I say to >> It's a very tall order. That's I say to >> It's a very tall order. That's I say to Nick you got the bad end of the deal.

Nick you got the bad end of the deal. Nick you got the bad end of the deal. I'm so I always we laugh I go everything I'm so I always we laugh I go everything I'm so I always we laugh I go everything flows out of that. That's it. flows out of that. That's it. flows out of that. That's it. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> It is true but you know, it's >> It is true but you know, it's >> It is true but you know, it's interesting the Bible specifically says interesting the Bible specifically says interesting the Bible specifically says husbands love your wife as Christ loves husbands love your wife as Christ loves husbands love your wife as Christ loves the church and then it specifically says the church and then it specifically says the church and then it specifically says wives see that you respect your husband. wives see that you respect your husband. wives see that you respect your husband. You know You know You know wives need love husbands need respect. wives need love husbands need respect. wives need love husbands need respect. That's not to say husbands don't need That's not to say husbands don't need That's not to say husbands don't need love and wives don't need respect but it love and wives don't need respect but it love and wives don't need respect but it is to say the Bible is specific about is to say the Bible is specific about is to say the Bible is specific about [clears throat] that. And I think it's [clears throat] that. And I think it's [clears throat] that. And I think it's important for a man to know that his important for a man to know that his important for a man to know that his wife respects him. wife respects him. wife respects him. >> 100%. >> 100%. >> 100%. >> And sometimes she may not tell him that >> And sometimes she may not tell him that >> And sometimes she may not tell him that as much as she could and of course he as much as she could and of course he as much as she could and of course he can be neglectful in telling his wife can be neglectful in telling his wife can be neglectful in telling his wife how much he loves her as he should. how much he loves her as he should. how much he loves her as he should. >> It's crucial and that we show that. I >> It's crucial and that we show that. I >> It's crucial and that we show that. I mean you can say the words respect but mean you can say the words respect but mean you can say the words respect but is it at demonstrating your values and is it at demonstrating your values and is it at demonstrating your values and and the way you operate. So I think we and the way you operate. So I think we and the way you operate. So I think we I've been I've been I've been very keen to do that and again I think very keen to do that and again I think very keen to do that and again I think if we're about you know, when Jesus said if we're about you know, when Jesus said if we're about you know, when Jesus said to his mom to his mom to his mom I always laugh he was 12. It's the first I always laugh he was 12. It's the first I always laugh he was 12. It's the first words. words. words. >> said to his mom. >> said to his mom. >> said to his mom. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> The you know, the first recorded words >> The you know, the first recorded words >> The you know, the first recorded words we have of Jesus in Luke. They're we have of Jesus in Luke. They're we have of Jesus in Luke. They're they're very important cuz we don't they're very important cuz we don't they're very important cuz we don't almost nothing of Jesus's almost nothing of Jesus's almost nothing of Jesus's you know, pre-teenage or even teenage you know, pre-teenage or even teenage you know, pre-teenage or even teenage teenage years. But he you know, he says teenage years. But he you know, he says teenage years. But he you know, he says to her to her to her don't you know don't you know don't you know >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> after she lost him for 3 days. I always >> after she lost him for 3 days. I always >> after she lost him for 3 days. I always laugh I go that's in the Bible for every laugh I go that's in the Bible for every laugh I go that's in the Bible for every mother in the world that's ever mother in the world that's ever mother in the world that's ever forgotten their kid at the mall. It's forgotten their kid at the mall. It's forgotten their kid at the mall. It's all right because Mary forgot God for 3 all right because Mary forgot God for 3 all right because Mary forgot God for 3 days. But, days. But, days. But, >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> anyway, so like so she goes >> anyway, so like so she goes >> anyway, so like so she goes >> Funny. >> Funny. >> Funny. >> And um but she turns up and he goes, >> And um but she turns up and he goes, >> And um but she turns up and he goes, "Why were you looking for me? Do you not "Why were you looking for me? Do you not "Why were you looking for me? Do you not know I must be about my father's know I must be about my father's know I must be about my father's business?" So again, I'm going to business?" So again, I'm going to business?" So again, I'm going to preempt everything we're saying when preempt everything we're saying when preempt everything we're saying when we're about the father's business. we're about the father's business. we're about the father's business. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> My business sort of goes secondary. And >> My business sort of goes secondary. And >> My business sort of goes secondary. And and again, all of the that is never to and again, all of the that is never to and again, all of the that is never to say say say it's okay not to be it's okay not to be it's okay not to be feeling seen or known or loved. And I feeling seen or known or loved. And I feeling seen or known or loved. And I know we've got so many books about all know we've got so many books about all know we've got so many books about all that. And it is important because some that. And it is important because some that. And it is important because some people didn't grow up in great families, people didn't grow up in great families, people didn't grow up in great families, so they do need so they do need so they do need really good instructions on here is how really good instructions on here is how really good instructions on here is how you love someone well. Here is what you you love someone well. Here is what you you love someone well. Here is what you do. But I I will I will always keep do. But I I will I will always keep do. But I I will I will always keep coming back to, Greg, if we truly love coming back to, Greg, if we truly love coming back to, Greg, if we truly love the Lord our God with all our heart, all the Lord our God with all our heart, all the Lord our God with all our heart, all our mind, all our strength, and our our mind, all our strength, and our our mind, all our strength, and our neighbor as we love ourselves, that neighbor as we love ourselves, that neighbor as we love ourselves, that includes our spouse. includes our spouse. includes our spouse. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> First and foremost, actually. And so if >> First and foremost, actually. And so if >> First and foremost, actually. And so if that's been done right, that's been done right, that's been done right, the rest of the stuff like, "Okay, I'm the rest of the stuff like, "Okay, I'm the rest of the stuff like, "Okay, I'm going to sacrifice doing this so I can going to sacrifice doing this so I can going to sacrifice doing this so I can have a movie night." Like, you can have have a movie night." Like, you can have have a movie night." Like, you can have a date night every year for 20 years and a date night every year for 20 years and a date night every year for 20 years and still end up divorced because you're still end up divorced because you're still end up divorced because you're just doing it begrudgingly. Or you're just doing it begrudgingly. Or you're just doing it begrudgingly. Or you're not your heart's not in it. You know, not your heart's not in it. You know, not your heart's not in it. You know, it's like you you go to a football game it's like you you go to a football game it's like you you go to a football game and you can go, "That guy's playing, but and you can go, "That guy's playing, but and you can go, "That guy's playing, but his heart's not in it today." Well, you his heart's not in it today." Well, you his heart's not in it today." Well, you can be in your marriage and going, "I'm can be in your marriage and going, "I'm can be in your marriage and going, "I'm doing all the stuff, but my heart's not doing all the stuff, but my heart's not doing all the stuff, but my heart's not in it."

in it." in it." >> And your relationship with God, too. >> And your relationship with God, too. >> And your relationship with God, too. That's why in Ephesians 2 That's why in Ephesians 2 That's why in Ephesians 2 Excuse me, Revelation 2, it says, you Excuse me, Revelation 2, it says, you Excuse me, Revelation 2, it says, you know, basically you're discerning, know, basically you're discerning, know, basically you're discerning, you're hard working, you're you're you're hard working, you're you're you're hard working, you're you're checking all the boxes, but I have this checking all the boxes, but I have this checking all the boxes, but I have this against you. You have left your first against you. You have left your first against you. You have left your first love. You know, so it can happen in our love. You know, so it can happen in our love. You know, so it can happen in our walk with God, and it can happen in our walk with God, and it can happen in our walk with God, and it can happen in our marriage. marriage. marriage. >> Very much so. >> Very much so. >> Very much so. >> Now, you mentioned movies. Let let me >> Now, you mentioned movies. Let let me >> Now, you mentioned movies. Let let me ask you some ask you some ask you some mundane questions. So, what are your top mundane questions. So, what are your top mundane questions. So, what are your top five favorite films? five favorite films? five favorite films? >> I'm going to have to say your movie, >> I'm going to have to say your movie, >> I'm going to have to say your movie, aren't I, as number one? So, there you aren't I, as number one? So, there you aren't I, as number one? So, there you go. go. go. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Which is >> Which is >> Which is >> I'm glad >> I'm glad >> I'm glad >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I am yes, which I >> I am yes, which I >> I am yes, which I wept I mean, I sobbed like a baby. I was wept I mean, I sobbed like a baby. I was wept I mean, I sobbed like a baby. I was on a plane. It was very embarrassing. Um on a plane. It was very embarrassing. Um on a plane. It was very embarrassing. Um but anyway, so that was a so I was so but anyway, so that was a so I was so but anyway, so that was a so I was so well done. So well done. Um, well done. So well done. Um, well done. So well done. Um, well, you know what are all my top one? well, you know what are all my top one? well, you know what are all my top one? I I I'm trying to make sure that I I I I'm trying to make sure that I I I I'm trying to make sure that I stay across Yes, exactly. I hate when stay across Yes, exactly. I hate when stay across Yes, exactly. I hate when they ask me these they ask me these they ask me these >> questions so you don't feel bad. So, I >> questions so you don't feel bad. So, I >> questions so you don't feel bad. So, I define a favorite film as a movie that define a favorite film as a movie that define a favorite film as a movie that if I'm flipping channels on a television if I'm flipping channels on a television if I'm flipping channels on a television and it comes on, though I've seen it 50 and it comes on, though I've seen it 50 and it comes on, though I've seen it 50 times or more, I'll wait until the next times or more, I'll wait until the next times or more, I'll wait until the next commercial comes cuz I just love the commercial comes cuz I just love the commercial comes cuz I just love the movie.

movie. movie. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> So, for me, it you know, it would be >> So, for me, it you know, it would be >> So, for me, it you know, it would be like Braveheart or like Braveheart or like Braveheart or it would be it would be it would be Well, I love the original Ben-Hur with Well, I love the original Ben-Hur with Well, I love the original Ben-Hur with Charlton Heston. I just have always Charlton Heston. I just have always Charlton Heston. I just have always loved that film. Tombstone, you know, loved that film. Tombstone, you know, loved that film. Tombstone, you know, that maybe that's not the most spiritual that maybe that's not the most spiritual that maybe that's not the most spiritual choice, but I just love the dialogue choice, but I just love the dialogue choice, but I just love the dialogue that's written in the Tombstone. Then that's written in the Tombstone. Then that's written in the Tombstone. Then this is a weird one and I feel like I this is a weird one and I feel like I this is a weird one and I feel like I should turn my man card in for saying should turn my man card in for saying should turn my man card in for saying this. I love The Sound of Music. this. I love The Sound of Music. this. I love The Sound of Music. >> So do I. That would have made it into my >> So do I. That would have made it into my >> So do I. That would have made it into my top five. Okay, now you No, that that's top five. Okay, now you No, that that's top five. Okay, now you No, that that's just shows you've got great taste. just shows you've got great taste. just shows you've got great taste. That's not turn your man card in and I That's not turn your man card in and I That's not turn your man card in and I love that film love that film love that film with the and probably cuz it reminds me with the and probably cuz it reminds me with the and probably cuz it reminds me of my mother and I went hiking in of my mother and I went hiking in of my mother and I went hiking in Switzerland even though it's shot in Switzerland even though it's shot in Switzerland even though it's shot in Austria and I sound I sang The Sound of Austria and I sound I sang The Sound of Austria and I sound I sang The Sound of Music non-stop with with with all of Music non-stop with with with all of Music non-stop with with with all of that. I'm I do love My Big Fat Greek that. I'm I do love My Big Fat Greek that. I'm I do love My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Yeah, yeah. Wedding. Yeah, yeah. Wedding. Yeah, yeah. >> It rates there and I mean, I laugh every >> It rates there and I mean, I laugh every >> It rates there and I mean, I laugh every day from here to there. I love anything. day from here to there. I love anything. day from here to there. I love anything. My kids will laugh cuz they go, "Mom, My kids will laugh cuz they go, "Mom, My kids will laugh cuz they go, "Mom, you love any French or Italian movie you love any French or Italian movie you love any French or Italian movie with subtitles." Because I'm I'm an with subtitles." Because I'm I'm an with subtitles." Because I'm I'm an English major and so English major and so English major and so I love anything like Jane Austen, you I love anything like Jane Austen, you I love anything like Jane Austen, you know, so those great I'm sorry.

know, so those great I'm sorry. know, so those great I'm sorry. >> my wife. You can go to I'm Kathy. So I >> my wife. You can go to I'm Kathy. So I >> my wife. You can go to I'm Kathy. So I know know know >> asleep to movies to sleep by. >> asleep to movies to sleep by. >> asleep to movies to sleep by. >> Yeah, that's my husband would say 100% >> Yeah, that's my husband would say 100% >> Yeah, that's my husband would say 100% what you're saying, exactly. And he what you're saying, exactly. And he what you're saying, exactly. And he >> Oh, if it has a British accent, let's >> Oh, if it has a British accent, let's >> Oh, if it has a British accent, let's watch this. And I watch it and I just watch this. And I watch it and I just watch this. And I watch it and I just fall asleep. And I watch it kind of fall asleep. And I watch it kind of fall asleep. And I watch it kind of stuff Nick watches. stuff Nick watches. stuff Nick watches. >> That's it. So, we've got two different >> That's it. So, we've got two different >> That's it. So, we've got two different um apps and I I made them download and um apps and I I made them download and um apps and I I made them download and pay the subscription because it's called pay the subscription because it's called pay the subscription because it's called BritBox. BritBox. BritBox. >> We have that. >> We have that. >> We have that. >> That's it. Because that's all I want to >> That's it. Because that's all I want to >> That's it. Because that's all I want to watch is this British stuff. watch is this British stuff. watch is this British stuff. >> have two others that are similar to >> have two others that are similar to >> have two others that are similar to BritBox as well. I'm trying to remember BritBox as well. I'm trying to remember BritBox as well. I'm trying to remember >> are they? >> are they? >> are they? Tell Kathy to send them to me. Tell Kathy to send them to me. Tell Kathy to send them to me. >> I will. >> I will. >> I will. >> Yes, okay. >> Yes, okay. >> Yes, okay. >> Yeah, there's another one that's very >> Yeah, there's another one that's very >> Yeah, there's another one that's very similar to BritBox. And then of course similar to BritBox. And then of course similar to BritBox. And then of course PBS will sometimes play the British uh PBS will sometimes play the British uh PBS will sometimes play the British uh shows and stuff. shows and stuff. shows and stuff. >> No, BritBox is my my husband never what >> No, BritBox is my my husband never what >> No, BritBox is my my husband never what He's bored literally and I'm I'm not He's bored literally and I'm I'm not He's bored literally and I'm I'm not even exaggerating. I will hear him even exaggerating. I will hear him even exaggerating. I will hear him snoring within 10 minutes if we're snoring within 10 minutes if we're snoring within 10 minutes if we're watching a Jane Austen. Literally, I watching a Jane Austen. Literally, I watching a Jane Austen. Literally, I will. will. will. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I just How can we keep watching these >> I just How can we keep watching these >> I just How can we keep watching these same Why do they keep remaking the same same Why do they keep remaking the same same Why do they keep remaking the same >> It's awesome. [laughter] >> It's awesome. [laughter] >> It's awesome. [laughter] And and they're at least they're not And and they're at least they're not And and they're at least they're not like crude and it's no and I mean I've like crude and it's no and I mean I've like crude and it's no and I mean I've studied all the novels for like 5 years studied all the novels for like 5 years studied all the novels for like 5 years at university. So, how's that? And my at university. So, how's that? And my at university. So, how's that? And my husband, he's got a banking and finance husband, he's got a banking and finance husband, he's got a banking and finance degree. He does not get me in those degree. He does not get me in those degree. He does not get me in those areas.

areas. areas. >> Probably [laughter] you know opposites >> Probably [laughter] you know opposites >> Probably [laughter] you know opposites attract. Okay, so like food, like when attract. Okay, so like food, like when attract. Okay, so like food, like when you when you like what do you go to for you when you like what do you go to for you when you like what do you go to for like a comfort food? Like this is like like a comfort food? Like this is like like a comfort food? Like this is like when you get back maybe to America or when you get back maybe to America or when you get back maybe to America or maybe on the road you find it. What's maybe on the road you find it. What's maybe on the road you find it. What's your favorite kind of food? your favorite kind of food? your favorite kind of food? >> As soon as we come back I'll always >> As soon as we come back I'll always >> As soon as we come back I'll always order a good Thai or a good Indian. order a good Thai or a good Indian. order a good Thai or a good Indian. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah, and now Southern California does >> Yeah, and now Southern California does >> Yeah, and now Southern California does We've got great Thai here. We've got great Thai here. We've got great Thai here. Um not great Indian here. London's got Um not great Indian here. London's got Um not great Indian here. London's got great Indian. But don't forget I spend, great Indian. But don't forget I spend, great Indian. But don't forget I spend, you know, a good out of the country at you know, a good out of the country at you know, a good out of the country at least, you know, 180, 190 nights. So, I least, you know, 180, 190 nights. So, I least, you know, 180, 190 nights. So, I get amazing food around the world. So, get amazing food around the world. So, get amazing food around the world. So, thank God I've got a palate that is thank God I've got a palate that is thank God I've got a palate that is very international um because I love it. very international um because I love it. very international um because I love it. But Thai, Indian would be very high for But Thai, Indian would be very high for But Thai, Indian would be very high for me. And then of course Mediterranean. me. And then of course Mediterranean. me. And then of course Mediterranean. >> Kathy likes Thai and Indian. She was >> Kathy likes Thai and Indian. She was >> Kathy likes Thai and Indian. She was raised in the Philippines as a little raised in the Philippines as a little raised in the Philippines as a little girl. girl. girl. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> So, you know, and she lived in Thailand >> So, you know, and she lived in Thailand >> So, you know, and she lived in Thailand as well. So, I'm a little mystified when as well. So, I'm a little mystified when as well. So, I'm a little mystified when I'm in a Thai restaurant. I don't know I'm in a Thai restaurant. I don't know I'm in a Thai restaurant. I don't know what to order. I'm more like I like what to order. I'm more like I like what to order. I'm more like I like Mexican food, Italian food. I like Mexican food, Italian food. I like Mexican food, Italian food. I like hamburgers. I'm more just very hamburgers. I'm more just very hamburgers. I'm more just very >> You do? Mexican, of course. Yes and >> You do? Mexican, of course. Yes and >> You do? Mexican, of course. Yes and amen.

amen. amen. >> Yes, I crave that when I'm gone cuz it >> Yes, I crave that when I'm gone cuz it >> Yes, I crave that when I'm gone cuz it seems like it's hard to find it done seems like it's hard to find it done seems like it's hard to find it done right, even the East Coast. Like when I right, even the East Coast. Like when I right, even the East Coast. Like when I went to this uh restaurant when we were went to this uh restaurant when we were went to this uh restaurant when we were filming Jesus Revolution and it was in filming Jesus Revolution and it was in filming Jesus Revolution and it was in Alabama. We shot a lot of it in Alabama, Alabama. We shot a lot of it in Alabama, Alabama. We shot a lot of it in Alabama, which substituted for California, which substituted for California, which substituted for California, believe it or not. believe it or not. believe it or not. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And uh so there was a Mexican >> And uh so there was a Mexican >> And uh so there was a Mexican restaurant, looked pretty good. So let's restaurant, looked pretty good. So let's restaurant, looked pretty good. So let's go in here and I ordered nachos. Like I go in here and I ordered nachos. Like I go in here and I ordered nachos. Like I love nachos. And instead of like melted love nachos. And instead of like melted love nachos. And instead of like melted cheddar cheese, they literally put cheddar cheese, they literally put cheddar cheese, they literally put cheese whiz on chips. Like this is a cheese whiz on chips. Like this is a cheese whiz on chips. Like this is a sacrilege. sacrilege. sacrilege. >> That is that is that is sinful. We do >> That is that is that is sinful. We do >> That is that is that is sinful. We do and I will say that when I land and I and I will say that when I land and I and I will say that when I land and I even like our even like our even like our Mexican here in Southern California more Mexican here in Southern California more Mexican here in Southern California more than Texas. Like you know they they love than Texas. Like you know they they love than Texas. Like you know they they love their Tex-Mex, but I their Tex-Mex, but I their Tex-Mex, but I >> thing is the different vibe. They make >> thing is the different vibe. They make >> thing is the different vibe. They make everything sweet in Texas. everything sweet in Texas. everything sweet in Texas. >> I prefer ours here and that would be the >> I prefer ours here and that would be the >> I prefer ours here and that would be the first thing. My daughter's studying in first thing. My daughter's studying in first thing. My daughter's studying in Paris, France. She's studying um Paris, France. She's studying um Paris, France. She's studying um >> Have you ever been to Joe T's though in >> Have you ever been to Joe T's though in >> Have you ever been to Joe T's though in Fort Worth? Pretty good Mexican. That's Fort Worth? Pretty good Mexican. That's Fort Worth? Pretty good Mexican. That's Texas. Texas. Texas. >> Daughter's taking notes as you're saying >> Daughter's taking notes as you're saying >> Daughter's taking notes as you're saying this. And so as soon as she lands from this. And so as soon as she lands from this. And so as soon as she lands from Paris, even if it's a late night and she Paris, even if it's a late night and she Paris, even if it's a late night and she doesn't get into LAX, doesn't get into LAX, doesn't get into LAX, the first thing it could be 10:30 at the first thing it could be 10:30 at the first thing it could be 10:30 at night, her sister will pick her up from night, her sister will pick her up from night, her sister will pick her up from the flight from Paris and they will go the flight from Paris and they will go the flight from Paris and they will go find a Mexican restaurant. She just find a Mexican restaurant. She just find a Mexican restaurant. She just that's her biggest like I miss that's her biggest like I miss that's her biggest like I miss California Mexican food.

California Mexican food. California Mexican food. >> So if you could have dinner with like >> So if you could have dinner with like >> So if you could have dinner with like three people and we won't include Jesus, three people and we won't include Jesus, three people and we won't include Jesus, he would be our number one choice. But he would be our number one choice. But he would be our number one choice. But people from history, living, not living, people from history, living, not living, people from history, living, not living, uh who would you like to have a meal uh who would you like to have a meal uh who would you like to have a meal with and talk to? Could be Bible with and talk to? Could be Bible with and talk to? Could be Bible characters, historical figures. characters, historical figures. characters, historical figures. >> Oh, I could do Bible characters? >> Oh, I could do Bible characters? >> Oh, I could do Bible characters? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which >> Which >> Which >> Let's do historical figures and Bible >> Let's do historical figures and Bible >> Let's do historical figures and Bible characters. characters. characters. >> Well, both, I think. I'm always going to >> Well, both, I think. I'm always going to >> Well, both, I think. I'm always going to tend towards um tend towards um tend towards um his mate and obviously cuz I've been his mate and obviously cuz I've been his mate and obviously cuz I've been speaking about her a lot, but I do want speaking about her a lot, but I do want speaking about her a lot, but I do want to have dinner with Lot's wife and find to have dinner with Lot's wife and find to have dinner with Lot's wife and find out out out >> Lot's [laughter] wife? >> Lot's [laughter] wife? >> Lot's [laughter] wife? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. What was it like to be a pillar of salt What was it like to be a pillar of salt What was it like to be a pillar of salt >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Uh, for that period of time at >> Uh, for that period of time at >> Uh, for that period of time at >> Very constraining. >> Very constraining. >> Very constraining. >> That's very constraining. >> That's very constraining. >> That's very constraining. >> they look back? >> they look back? >> they look back? >> There's so much I want to know about >> There's so much I want to know about >> There's so much I want to know about her. There is a quite a lot actually her. There is a quite a lot actually her. There is a quite a lot actually about why. Why look back when you were about why. Why look back when you were about why. Why look back when you were when you're being when you're being when you're being >> Yeah, yeah. And it was deliberate. It >> Yeah, yeah. And it was deliberate. It >> Yeah, yeah. And it was deliberate. It was a deliberate look. was a deliberate look. was a deliberate look. >> Yeah, because you go just >> Yeah, because you go just >> Yeah, because you go just >> Wasn't I mean if something like that >> Wasn't I mean if something like that >> Wasn't I mean if something like that Well, what's going on? Wasn't that it Well, what's going on? Wasn't that it Well, what's going on? Wasn't that it was like was like was like >> She wanted to go back. >> She wanted to go back. >> She wanted to go back. >> Where Jesus actually said, "Remember >> Where Jesus actually said, "Remember >> Where Jesus actually said, "Remember Lot's Lot's Lot's >> That's it. That's it. I so I'm I'm >> That's it. That's it. I so I'm I'm >> That's it. That's it. I so I'm I'm because I've been talking about her.

because I've been talking about her. because I've been talking about her. >> Very interesting. Well, the good thing >> Very interesting. Well, the good thing >> Very interesting. Well, the good thing if you had a meal with Lot's wife, you if you had a meal with Lot's wife, you if you had a meal with Lot's wife, you wouldn't have to ask her to pass the wouldn't have to ask her to pass the wouldn't have to ask her to pass the salt. salt. salt. >> She would be the salt. >> She would be the salt. >> She would be the salt. >> I'm waiting for it. You are >> I'm waiting for it. You are >> I'm waiting for it. You are trust you. Um, I want all the obscure trust you. Um, I want all the obscure trust you. Um, I want all the obscure So, biblically, I want the obscure and So, biblically, I want the obscure and So, biblically, I want the obscure and because I'm teaching, you're like because I'm teaching, you're like because I'm teaching, you're like laughing and I'm going, "I want to uh laughing and I'm going, "I want to uh laughing and I'm going, "I want to uh the daughters of Zelophehad. Do you know the daughters of Zelophehad. Do you know the daughters of Zelophehad. Do you know that because Numbers 27 that because Numbers 27 that because Numbers 27 >> to be an interesting meal. >> to be an interesting meal. >> to be an interesting meal. >> This is it. Well, you know, in America >> This is it. Well, you know, in America >> This is it. Well, you know, in America in 1900, the women suffragettes when in 1900, the women suffragettes when in 1900, the women suffragettes when they finally got the right to vote, they they finally got the right to vote, they they finally got the right to vote, they cited Numbers 27. Do you know that's in cited Numbers 27. Do you know that's in cited Numbers 27. Do you know that's in your Congress? I I put put up to the your Congress? I I put put up to the your Congress? I I put put up to the church the whole speech. church the whole speech. church the whole speech. >> that. >> that. >> that. >> Yeah, and it was because and the woman >> Yeah, and it was because and the woman >> Yeah, and it was because and the woman Edna that was Edna that was Edna that was quoting it, she said before the quoting it, she said before the quoting it, she said before the Judiciary Committee, she goes, "I Judiciary Committee, she goes, "I Judiciary Committee, she goes, "I suggest you all do suggest you all do suggest you all do what Moses did. He inclined his ear to what Moses did. He inclined his ear to what Moses did. He inclined his ear to the Lord." Uh, because you know, he went the Lord." Uh, because you know, he went the Lord." Uh, because you know, he went and asked God about when they said, "Can and asked God about when they said, "Can and asked God about when they said, "Can I my inheritance?" And I my inheritance?" And I my inheritance?" And she said, "On the first appeal that the she said, "On the first appeal that the she said, "On the first appeal that the inheritance laws were changed and the inheritance laws were changed and the inheritance laws were changed and the women received the inheritance in women received the inheritance in women received the inheritance in Numbers 27." And she goes, "We've been Numbers 27." And she goes, "We've been Numbers 27." And she goes, "We've been before you for 30 years. Um, so perhaps before you for 30 years. Um, so perhaps before you for 30 years. Um, so perhaps it's time for you to go before the Lord it's time for you to go before the Lord it's time for you to go before the Lord and to incline your ear and hear from and to incline your ear and hear from and to incline your ear and hear from God." So, it was it was so instrumental.

God." So, it was it was so instrumental. God." So, it was it was so instrumental. So, I want to know about their So, I want to know about their So, I want to know about their confidence. How do you confidence. How do you confidence. How do you in ancient Near Eastern times go before in ancient Near Eastern times go before in ancient Near Eastern times go before the tent of meeting, Moses, Eleazar the the tent of meeting, Moses, Eleazar the the tent of meeting, Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders when there priest, and all the leaders when there priest, and all the leaders when there was no precedent for was no precedent for was no precedent for >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> that kind of inheritance, you know, >> that kind of inheritance, you know, >> that kind of inheritance, you know, obviously for the allotment of land. And obviously for the allotment of land. And obviously for the allotment of land. And yet, the Lord said to Moses, "What the yet, the Lord said to Moses, "What the yet, the Lord said to Moses, "What the daughters of Zelophehad said is right. daughters of Zelophehad said is right. daughters of Zelophehad said is right. They should get it." They should get it." They should get it." What was it that got you the confidence What was it that got you the confidence What was it that got you the confidence that you knew God's going to say yes, that you knew God's going to say yes, that you knew God's going to say yes, and gave you the faith? So, that and gave you the faith? So, that and gave you the faith? So, that fascinates me. Of course, I am going to fascinates me. Of course, I am going to fascinates me. Of course, I am going to go over it again. go over it again. go over it again. I am going to keep it on a girls' night I am going to keep it on a girls' night I am going to keep it on a girls' night out. How often do you have a chick on out. How often do you have a chick on out. How often do you have a chick on your podcast? So, this is for all the your podcast? So, this is for all the your podcast? So, this is for all the girls to be able to say, "Oh, okay. girls to be able to say, "Oh, okay. girls to be able to say, "Oh, okay. There are chicks there. There are chicks there. There are chicks there. Um and, you know, we're going to talk Um and, you know, we're going to talk Um and, you know, we're going to talk >> about the chicks. >> about the chicks. >> about the chicks. >> And I do want to talk to um Priscilla, >> And I do want to talk to um Priscilla, >> And I do want to talk to um Priscilla, you know, Aquila's wife. you know, Aquila's wife. you know, Aquila's wife. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Because I want to know, like even when >> Because I want to know, like even when >> Because I want to know, like even when she was there in Corinth uh with Aquila, she was there in Corinth uh with Aquila, she was there in Corinth uh with Aquila, you know, and they prepped it for Paul you know, and they prepped it for Paul you know, and they prepped it for Paul to come down from Thessalonica, Athens, to come down from Thessalonica, Athens, to come down from Thessalonica, Athens, and then Corinth, obviously. But, when and then Corinth, obviously. But, when and then Corinth, obviously. But, when she went to I'm pretty sure it was in she went to I'm pretty sure it was in she went to I'm pretty sure it was in Ephesus, where she took Ephesus, where she took Ephesus, where she took uh the uh the uh the the guy out of Alexandria that had been the guy out of Alexandria that had been the guy out of Alexandria that had been teaching, and she took him aside.

teaching, and she took him aside. teaching, and she took him aside. >> Apollos. >> Apollos. >> Apollos. >> Apollos. Was it Apollos? Yes. And she >> Apollos. Was it Apollos? Yes. And she >> Apollos. Was it Apollos? Yes. And she took him aside, um and you know, to to took him aside, um and you know, to to took him aside, um and you know, to to ensure that he was teaching the right ensure that he was teaching the right ensure that he was teaching the right things. I want to know what it would things. I want to know what it would things. I want to know what it would have been like in Ephesus then. And she have been like in Ephesus then. And she have been like in Ephesus then. And she wasn't formally trained, and Apollos was wasn't formally trained, and Apollos was wasn't formally trained, and Apollos was brilliant. He was out of the Alexandria brilliant. He was out of the Alexandria brilliant. He was out of the Alexandria school. So, so with all of his school. So, so with all of his school. So, so with all of his education, all of his training, all of education, all of his training, all of education, all of his training, all of his brilliance, his brilliance, his brilliance, um what was it like to take him aside um what was it like to take him aside um what was it like to take him aside and to for him, obviously, he he wanted and to for him, obviously, he he wanted and to for him, obviously, he he wanted to hear and understand. And where was to hear and understand. And where was to hear and understand. And where was she? Where did she get her knowledge she? Where did she get her knowledge she? Where did she get her knowledge from? To be able to train him. Like, from? To be able to train him. Like, from? To be able to train him. Like, there are some questions like that that there are some questions like that that there are some questions like that that I want to know. It's like, "How did that I want to know. It's like, "How did that I want to know. It's like, "How did that happen?" Because you were obviously very happen?" Because you were obviously very happen?" Because you were obviously very instrumental with Paul and your husband instrumental with Paul and your husband instrumental with Paul and your husband in obviously the church plants in in obviously the church plants in in obviously the church plants in Corinth and Ephesus. But, even this guy Corinth and Ephesus. But, even this guy Corinth and Ephesus. But, even this guy that was I mean, the scripture says he that was I mean, the scripture says he that was I mean, the scripture says he was a great orator, and he was was a great orator, and he was was a great orator, and he was brilliant. Obviously trained. My my brilliant. Obviously trained. My my brilliant. Obviously trained. My my parents are from Alexandria, Egypt. And parents are from Alexandria, Egypt. And parents are from Alexandria, Egypt. And I'm like, "You were trained at the I'm like, "You were trained at the I'm like, "You were trained at the best." best." best." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And yet, this this woman that we don't >> And yet, this this woman that we don't >> And yet, this this woman that we don't know that much about, except she does know that much about, except she does know that much about, except she does turn up a couple of times in the New turn up a couple of times in the New turn up a couple of times in the New Testament and in strategic church Testament and in strategic church Testament and in strategic church plants. And of course, I'm always plants. And of course, I'm always plants. And of course, I'm always interested in church planting. So, interested in church planting. So, interested in church planting. So, they're my chicks.

they're my chicks. they're my chicks. >> Well, it shows that they're also a >> Well, it shows that they're also a >> Well, it shows that they're also a couple working together cuz, you know, couple working together cuz, you know, couple working together cuz, you know, Aquila and Priscilla, they both Aquila and Priscilla, they both Aquila and Priscilla, they both discipled him, taught him the way of God discipled him, taught him the way of God discipled him, taught him the way of God more perfectly. And uh, you know, when I more perfectly. And uh, you know, when I more perfectly. And uh, you know, when I be and I want to ask you about a person be and I want to ask you about a person be and I want to ask you about a person we both know because when I was a brand we both know because when I was a brand we both know because when I was a brand new Christian, uh, I accepted Christ in new Christian, uh, I accepted Christ in new Christian, uh, I accepted Christ in my high school campus. Some guy never my high school campus. Some guy never my high school campus. Some guy never met before. His name was Mark. Comes up met before. His name was Mark. Comes up met before. His name was Mark. Comes up to me. He asked, "So, you accepted to me. He asked, "So, you accepted to me. He asked, "So, you accepted Christ?" I was like, "Who is this guy? Christ?" I was like, "Who is this guy? Christ?" I was like, "Who is this guy? Why is he talking to me?" And I'm like, Why is he talking to me?" And I'm like, Why is he talking to me?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And he goes, "Well, you know, "Yeah." And he goes, "Well, you know, "Yeah." And he goes, "Well, you know, you need to go to church." And because I you need to go to church." And because I you need to go to church." And because I was just going to this little Bible was just going to this little Bible was just going to this little Bible study on my high school campus, I said, study on my high school campus, I said, study on my high school campus, I said, "Oh, that's okay." And he goes, "No, you "Oh, that's okay." And he goes, "No, you "Oh, that's okay." And he goes, "No, you need to come to church with me." I said, need to come to church with me." I said, need to come to church with me." I said, "No, that's all right." And he goes, "No, that's all right." And he goes, "No, that's all right." And he goes, "Where do you live?" I got No, I don't. "Where do you live?" I got No, I don't. "Where do you live?" I got No, I don't. Next thing I know, I'm giving him my Next thing I know, I'm giving him my Next thing I know, I'm giving him my address. He was persistent in the best address. He was persistent in the best address. He was persistent in the best way. He started to disciple me, and he way. He started to disciple me, and he way. He started to disciple me, and he took me to his home, and he had his mom took me to his home, and he had his mom took me to his home, and he had his mom and dad. They were a Christian family. I and dad. They were a Christian family. I and dad. They were a Christian family. I never had meals with my family. You never had meals with my family. You never had meals with my family. You know, I went out and got my own food know, I went out and got my own food know, I went out and got my own food every night. every night. every night. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> I Now, it was kind of good cuz I did eat >> I Now, it was kind of good cuz I did eat >> I Now, it was kind of good cuz I did eat what I wanted. Every night I had a what I wanted. Every night I had a what I wanted. Every night I had a hamburger, french fries, and a vanilla hamburger, french fries, and a vanilla hamburger, french fries, and a vanilla shake. But after the 10,000th time, I I shake. But after the 10,000th time, I I shake. But after the 10,000th time, I I would literally I just love being with a would literally I just love being with a would literally I just love being with a Christian family. I'd never seen that Christian family. I'd never seen that Christian family. I'd never seen that before. Mom, dad, siblings. We had a before. Mom, dad, siblings. We had a before. Mom, dad, siblings. We had a nice meal, then a Bible study nice meal, then a Bible study nice meal, then a Bible study afterwards. So, you know, you see the afterwards. So, you know, you see the afterwards. So, you know, you see the power We think it's all preachers are power We think it's all preachers are power We think it's all preachers are going to do it, but sometimes just a going to do it, but sometimes just a going to do it, but sometimes just a godly couple like an Aquila and a godly couple like an Aquila and a godly couple like an Aquila and a Priscilla can help a mighty communicator Priscilla can help a mighty communicator Priscilla can help a mighty communicator like an Apollos. That some were saying, like an Apollos. That some were saying, like an Apollos. That some were saying, "I'm of Paul. I'm of Apollos." So, he "I'm of Paul. I'm of Apollos." So, he "I'm of Paul. I'm of Apollos." So, he had to be quite a mover and shaker to be

had to be quite a mover and shaker to be had to be quite a mover and shaker to be a competitor to Paul for lack of a a competitor to Paul for lack of a a competitor to Paul for lack of a better expression, but you know, it better expression, but you know, it better expression, but you know, it Yeah, so, what about historical figures Yeah, so, what about historical figures Yeah, so, what about historical figures like, you know, like for me, I'd say like, you know, like for me, I'd say like, you know, like for me, I'd say Spurgeon, probably C. S. Lewis, Spurgeon, probably C. S. Lewis, Spurgeon, probably C. S. Lewis, uh, uh, uh, you know, maybe Churchill. I've just you know, maybe Churchill. I've just you know, maybe Churchill. I've just always admired Churchill. It might be always admired Churchill. It might be always admired Churchill. It might be Abraham Lincoln. It might be George Abraham Lincoln. It might be George Abraham Lincoln. It might be George Washington, you know. Washington, you know. Washington, you know. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> well, of course. You know, I I mean, I >> well, of course. You know, I I mean, I >> well, of course. You know, I I mean, I would love to meet Alexander the Great. would love to meet Alexander the Great. would love to meet Alexander the Great. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh um and because >> Uh um and because >> Uh um and because >> Back to the Greek connection. >> Back to the Greek connection. >> Back to the Greek connection. >> It's all roads. I got to go back to >> It's all roads. I got to go back to >> It's all roads. I got to go back to Greece. There's no doubt about that. Uh Greece. There's no doubt about that. Uh Greece. There's no doubt about that. Uh Nelson Mandela. Nelson Mandela. Nelson Mandela. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Um very much so because you know, >> Um very much so because you know, >> Um very much so because you know, I mean, and we've got an office in South I mean, and we've got an office in South I mean, and we've got an office in South Africa. So, for me, that whole um Africa. So, for me, that whole um Africa. So, for me, that whole um kind of thing is kind of thing is kind of thing is is really, really important. is really, really important. is really, really important. >> You march to your own beat, Christina. >> You march to your own beat, Christina. >> You march to your own beat, Christina. All your All the things you say, like, All your All the things you say, like, All your All the things you say, like, "No, I wouldn't expect it." But it's so "No, I wouldn't expect it." But it's so "No, I wouldn't expect it." But it's so interesting. interesting. interesting. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> Well, I guess just cuz I think it's >> Well, I guess just cuz I think it's >> Well, I guess just cuz I think it's different than me. But, you know, every different than me. But, you know, every different than me. But, you know, every But the things you pivot to are But the things you pivot to are But the things you pivot to are interesting, like your girls you would interesting, like your girls you would interesting, like your girls you would have a meal with. Lot's wife, I'm going have a meal with. Lot's wife, I'm going have a meal with. Lot's wife, I'm going to remember that. That's going to find to remember that. That's going to find to remember that. That's going to find its way into a sermon somewhere. I was its way into a sermon somewhere. I was its way into a sermon somewhere. I was once talking to Christine Caine, and I once talking to Christine Caine, and I once talking to Christine Caine, and I asked her if she could have a meal with asked her if she could have a meal with asked her if she could have a meal with anybody. She said, "Lot's wife." I know anybody. She said, "Lot's wife." I know anybody. She said, "Lot's wife." I know I just think that's cool.

I just think that's cool. I just think that's cool. >> It's going to Yeah, the women's dinners. >> It's going to Yeah, the women's dinners. >> It's going to Yeah, the women's dinners. Zipporah had daughters and Priscilla. Zipporah had daughters and Priscilla. Zipporah had daughters and Priscilla. That's my dinner. That's my dinner. That's my dinner. And then, definitely Nelson Mandela. And then, definitely Nelson Mandela. And then, definitely Nelson Mandela. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Um Um Um you know, you know, you know, I'm just thinking Billy Graham, I'm just thinking Billy Graham, I'm just thinking Billy Graham, probably. probably. probably. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Cuz Well, you knew him, but I I never >> Cuz Well, you knew him, but I I never >> Cuz Well, you knew him, but I I never did. did. did. >> Well, and I you know, I had the great >> Well, and I you know, I had the great >> Well, and I you know, I had the great privilege of having meals with him, and privilege of having meals with him, and privilege of having meals with him, and I can tell you, in person, I can tell you, in person, I can tell you, in person, he was even more impressive Well, he was even more impressive Well, he was even more impressive Well, privately than he was publicly. privately than he was publicly. privately than he was publicly. Publicly, you know, he's this great Publicly, you know, he's this great Publicly, you know, he's this great preacher. I think one of the greatest preacher. I think one of the greatest preacher. I think one of the greatest preachers ever. preachers ever. preachers ever. But, uh privately, he was so kind. And But, uh privately, he was so kind. And But, uh privately, he was so kind. And it was actually very hard to get him to it was actually very hard to get him to it was actually very hard to get him to talk about himself. Cuz he was Mr. talk about himself. Cuz he was Mr. talk about himself. Cuz he was Mr. History. He shook hands with everybody. History. He shook hands with everybody. History. He shook hands with everybody. You know, he knew Churchill. He knew You know, he knew Churchill. He knew You know, he knew Churchill. He knew Golda Meir. He knew every president Golda Meir. He knew every president Golda Meir. He knew every president going back to Truman. Uh Muhammad Ali going back to Truman. Uh Muhammad Ali going back to Truman. Uh Muhammad Ali came to his home. You You name it, he came to his home. You You name it, he came to his home. You You name it, he met them. So, I would ask him, "Billy, met them. So, I would ask him, "Billy, met them. So, I would ask him, "Billy, tell me about the time that you met this tell me about the time that you met this tell me about the time that you met this person." Then he would kind of say a few person." Then he would kind of say a few person." Then he would kind of say a few things, and then he'd say, "Tell me things, and then he'd say, "Tell me things, and then he'd say, "Tell me about yourself." And he really actually about yourself." And he really actually about yourself." And he really actually was interested. And I would think, "Why was interested. And I would think, "Why was interested. And I would think, "Why am I talking to him about myself? I am I talking to him about myself? I am I talking to him about myself? I don't really want to talk about myself don't really want to talk about myself don't really want to talk about myself to him. But he was interested and I to him. But he was interested and I to him. But he was interested and I think that's one of think that's one of think that's one of I think one of the secrets of his great I think one of the secrets of his great I think one of the secrets of his great success was his genuine and real success was his genuine and real success was his genuine and real humility.

humility. humility. And he was a very approachable person. And he was a very approachable person. And he was a very approachable person. So, but I wanted to So, but I wanted to So, but I wanted to talk about one person and then a closing talk about one person and then a closing talk about one person and then a closing question. Jay John. question. Jay John. question. Jay John. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> We both know Jay John. >> We both know Jay John. >> We both know Jay John. >> Yes, legend. >> Yes, legend. >> Yes, legend. >> And so I've heard and you'll have to >> And so I've heard and you'll have to >> And so I've heard and you'll have to tell me that he played a role in leading tell me that he played a role in leading tell me that he played a role in leading you you you >> to Christ? >> to Christ? >> to Christ? >> He had a really significant role. I was >> He had a really significant role. I was >> He had a really significant role. I was at Sydney University. Um I had gone in at Sydney University. Um I had gone in at Sydney University. Um I had gone in 1986, then I deferred for 2 years, kind 1986, then I deferred for 2 years, kind 1986, then I deferred for 2 years, kind of traveled the world, came back. And my of traveled the world, came back. And my of traveled the world, came back. And my dad had died in that time and to say I dad had died in that time and to say I dad had died in that time and to say I was far away from God is an was far away from God is an was far away from God is an understatement. Um understatement. Um understatement. Um and probably and probably and probably extremely extremely extremely disappointed with God. My father dying, disappointed with God. My father dying, disappointed with God. My father dying, I think I think everything, the abuse, I think I think everything, the abuse, I think I think everything, the abuse, it all had caught up with me. it all had caught up with me. it all had caught up with me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And a friend of mine um >> And a friend of mine um >> And a friend of mine um Sydney University said, you know, Sydney University said, you know, Sydney University said, you know, there's a Greek evangelist coming to do there's a Greek evangelist coming to do there's a Greek evangelist coming to do um of course we call them crusades then um of course we call them crusades then um of course we call them crusades then too. It was a a week-long crusade in So, too. It was a a week-long crusade in So, too. It was a a week-long crusade in So, this is 1988-89. this is 1988-89. this is 1988-89. >> Wow.

>> Wow. >> Wow. >> And I um I was utterly >> And I um I was utterly >> And I um I was utterly disinterested in anything to do with disinterested in anything to do with disinterested in anything to do with God, church. I was so angry that my dad God, church. I was so angry that my dad God, church. I was so angry that my dad had died. So, I had a lot of anger. had died. So, I had a lot of anger. had died. So, I had a lot of anger. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And but because he was my friend, again, >> And but because he was my friend, again, >> And but because he was my friend, again, like you're saying, it's normal everyday like you're saying, it's normal everyday like you're saying, it's normal everyday people. My friend just continued to people. My friend just continued to people. My friend just continued to persevere. persevere. persevere. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And sort of played the Greek card. And >> And sort of played the Greek card. And >> And sort of played the Greek card. And eventually it intrigued me because I had eventually it intrigued me because I had eventually it intrigued me because I had never heard like of a a Greek like never heard like of a a Greek like never heard like of a a Greek like Protestant Christian. Like, you know, I Protestant Christian. Like, you know, I Protestant Christian. Like, you know, I didn't know. I mean, my mom would say, didn't know. I mean, my mom would say, didn't know. I mean, my mom would say, "Well, you grew up in the Orthodox "Well, you grew up in the Orthodox "Well, you grew up in the Orthodox church. We're Christians." Yes, but church. We're Christians." Yes, but church. We're Christians." Yes, but not really a born-again believer. I'd not really a born-again believer. I'd not really a born-again believer. I'd never personally come across a Greek never personally come across a Greek never personally come across a Greek one. Um and so one. Um and so one. Um and so she goes, "Just come and listen to him she goes, "Just come and listen to him she goes, "Just come and listen to him and he's Greek. He's Greek Cypriot, and he's Greek. He's Greek Cypriot, and he's Greek. He's Greek Cypriot, actually. He's um actually. He's um actually. He's um So, I remember I went I was I sat at the So, I remember I went I was I sat at the So, I remember I went I was I sat at the back back back and didn't even really want to be there and didn't even really want to be there and didn't even really want to be there and um and um and um I mean of course J. John is just so I mean of course J. John is just so I mean of course J. John is just so winsome and so winsome and so winsome and so >> witty. >> witty. >> witty. >> There's none like him, too. I mean >> There's none like him, too. I mean >> There's none like him, too. I mean unparalleled. It was like Mr. Bean on unparalleled. It was like Mr. Bean on unparalleled. It was like Mr. Bean on steroids and at the a theological steroids and at the a theological steroids and at the a theological theologian Mr. Bean. And so [laughter] theologian Mr. Bean. And so [laughter] theologian Mr. Bean. And so [laughter] um but I stood at the back and then my um but I stood at the back and then my um but I stood at the back and then my friend at the end sort of made me go say friend at the end sort of made me go say friend at the end sort of made me go say hello and I let me just say I was very I hello and I let me just say I was very I hello and I let me just say I was very I was was was less than polite. Like because I mean less than polite. Like because I mean less than polite. Like because I mean he's just him he's just him he's just him and he was not shaken at all. Like you and he was not shaken at all. Like you and he was not shaken at all. Like you know, he's like know, he's like know, he's like my because I was so angry with God and my because I was so angry with God and my because I was so angry with God and Christianity and everything it just it Christianity and everything it just it Christianity and everything it just it didn't even care. He just goes, "Why didn't even care. He just goes, "Why didn't even care. He just goes, "Why don't we have coffee?" You know, like don't we have coffee?" You know, like don't we have coffee?" You know, like just he was so just he was so just he was so winsome and um

winsome and um winsome and um and then I went to coffee with my friend and then I went to coffee with my friend and then I went to coffee with my friend and I would just was still and I would just was still and I would just was still I I I you know you know you know all my animosity towards God would come all my animosity towards God would come all my animosity towards God would come out of that that He was great. No out of that that He was great. No out of that that He was great. No problem, you know, so loving. Just come problem, you know, so loving. Just come problem, you know, so loving. Just come back tomorrow. back tomorrow. back tomorrow. >> A bridge builder. Always an evangelist >> A bridge builder. Always an evangelist >> A bridge builder. Always an evangelist like you. like you. like you. >> Never tried to close any never tried to >> Never tried to close any never tried to >> Never tried to close any never tried to uh dismiss my feelings. In fact, was uh dismiss my feelings. In fact, was uh dismiss my feelings. In fact, was very empathetic, you know, with with my very empathetic, you know, with with my very empathetic, you know, with with my pain. pain. pain. >> Um he probably read that. >> Um he probably read that. >> Um he probably read that. >> Yeah, very much so, of course. And then >> Yeah, very much so, of course. And then >> Yeah, very much so, of course. And then invited me for another coffee. And then invited me for another coffee. And then invited me for another coffee. And then another coffee and it was like that another coffee and it was like that another coffee and it was like that whole week. Um whole week. Um whole week. Um >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> I would go to the event, you know, like >> I would go to the event, you know, like >> I would go to the event, you know, like at the school. at the school. at the school. >> Did he do that with anybody else? >> Did he do that with anybody else? >> Did he do that with anybody else? >> No, it was really the Lord and then I >> No, it was really the Lord and then I >> No, it was really the Lord and then I had my friend with me and he had his had my friend with me and he had his had my friend with me and he had his assistant with him, but it was just like assistant with him, but it was just like assistant with him, but it was just like he obviously felt to to reach out. And he obviously felt to to reach out. And he obviously felt to to reach out. And he always laughs and he he tells a story he always laughs and he he tells a story he always laughs and he he tells a story now everywhere around the world, you now everywhere around the world, you now everywhere around the world, you know, just invite someone for another know, just invite someone for another know, just invite someone for another cup of coffee because you never know cup of coffee because you never know cup of coffee because you never know what the next cup of coffee cuz I was on what the next cup of coffee cuz I was on what the next cup of coffee cuz I was on the receiving end truly the Lord used the receiving end truly the Lord used the receiving end truly the Lord used him. Um to massively bring me back and him. Um to massively bring me back and him. Um to massively bring me back and then he was so gracious back to Christ then he was so gracious back to Christ then he was so gracious back to Christ and and then I got planted in a church and and then I got planted in a church and and then I got planted in a church which then I began to be discipled, but which then I began to be discipled, but which then I began to be discipled, but that without that that week of crusade that without that that week of crusade that without that that week of crusade at Sydney University in 88-89 at Sydney University in 88-89 at Sydney University in 88-89 >> He entered your world.

>> He entered your world. >> He entered your world. >> He entered my world and then came back >> He entered my world and then came back >> He entered my world and then came back the next year to do a series of things I the next year to do a series of things I the next year to do a series of things I think with the Sydney Anglicans think with the Sydney Anglicans think with the Sydney Anglicans around around around my state in New South Wales and he was my state in New South Wales and he was my state in New South Wales and he was so gracious him and Killy really took me so gracious him and Killy really took me so gracious him and Killy really took me under their wing from then and to this under their wing from then and to this under their wing from then and to this day. You know, we are different. day. You know, we are different. day. You know, we are different. >> What a great guy. >> What a great guy. >> What a great guy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He >> He >> He I you know, I've been with him we he's I you know, I've been with him we he's I you know, I've been with him we he's spoken for me before and he I mean this spoken for me before and he I mean this spoken for me before and he I mean this is really cool. He knows I'm a Beatles is really cool. He knows I'm a Beatles is really cool. He knows I'm a Beatles fan. I'm a huge Beatles fan and he goes, fan. I'm a huge Beatles fan and he goes, fan. I'm a huge Beatles fan and he goes, "Greg, I got you a little yellow "Greg, I got you a little yellow "Greg, I got you a little yellow submarine. Killy and I saw it in the submarine. Killy and I saw it in the submarine. Killy and I saw it in the store." I'm trying to do his voice now. store." I'm trying to do his voice now. store." I'm trying to do his voice now. >> 100% this is it. I'm laughing. >> 100% this is it. I'm laughing. >> 100% this is it. I'm laughing. >> And so it's actually back from when the >> And so it's actually back from when the >> And so it's actually back from when the Beatles were together still. So I've got Beatles were together still. So I've got Beatles were together still. So I've got this little yellow submarine right in this little yellow submarine right in this little yellow submarine right in front of my computer monitor and you front of my computer monitor and you front of my computer monitor and you push little levers and John, Paul, push little levers and John, Paul, push little levers and John, Paul, George, and Ringo pop up. George, and Ringo pop up. George, and Ringo pop up. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I think if my office was on fire I'd go >> I think if my office was on fire I'd go >> I think if my office was on fire I'd go yellow submarine. I'd grab a couple of yellow submarine. I'd grab a couple of yellow submarine. I'd grab a couple of other things but that's cuz it's so cool other things but that's cuz it's so cool other things but that's cuz it's so cool and the fact that he took the time to and the fact that he took the time to and the fact that he took the time to give that to me is a wonderful man of give that to me is a wonderful man of give that to me is a wonderful man of God. So okay, let's think about this as God. So okay, let's think about this as God. So okay, let's think about this as we wrap up and thank you for your time.

we wrap up and thank you for your time. we wrap up and thank you for your time. If an older Christine could speak to a If an older Christine could speak to a If an older Christine could speak to a younger you like you know, with all younger you like you know, with all younger you like you know, with all you've experienced you've experienced you've experienced what advice would you give yourself? what advice would you give yourself? what advice would you give yourself? >> You know, I I this question when people >> You know, I I this question when people >> You know, I I this question when people ask me ask me ask me >> I know. >> I know. >> I know. >> I'm going to I get one of those >> I'm going to I get one of those >> I'm going to I get one of those >> questions actually I ask it I don't like >> questions actually I ask it I don't like >> questions actually I ask it I don't like it but yeah. it but yeah. it but yeah. >> because let me just say that I was >> because let me just say that I was >> because let me just say that I was >> You too. >> You too. >> You too. >> full on when I um started >> full on when I um started >> full on when I um started truly when I went after that truly when I went after that truly when I went after that week with Jay John and then coming to week with Jay John and then coming to week with Jay John and then coming to church. So I would say from the 19th of church. So I would say from the 19th of church. So I would say from the 19th of January 1989 sorry, 29th of January 1989 January 1989 sorry, 29th of January 1989 January 1989 sorry, 29th of January 1989 was when I I walked into my church for was when I I walked into my church for was when I I walked into my church for the first time and then I have never the first time and then I have never the first time and then I have never looked back. Like that was the planted looked back. Like that was the planted looked back. Like that was the planted in church and I'm following Jesus. I in church and I'm following Jesus. I in church and I'm following Jesus. I began to be discipled. began to be discipled. began to be discipled. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Um >> Um which is why you need an evangelist too, which is why you need an evangelist too, which is why you need an evangelist too, because if there had been no Sydney because if there had been no Sydney because if there had been no Sydney University Crusade, I wouldn't have been University Crusade, I wouldn't have been University Crusade, I wouldn't have been You know what I'm saying? That's why You know what I'm saying? That's why You know what I'm saying? That's why it's so All of it goes together. it's so All of it goes together. it's so All of it goes together. >> Well put it on. >> Well put it on. >> Well put it on. >> So, the 29th of January 1989, here I am. >> So, the 29th of January 1989, here I am. >> So, the 29th of January 1989, here I am. Very soon after that, I was reading Very soon after that, I was reading Very soon after that, I was reading Psalm 90:12, which said, "Yeah, uh Moses Psalm 90:12, which said, "Yeah, uh Moses Psalm 90:12, which said, "Yeah, uh Moses wrote, you know, teach us to number our wrote, you know, teach us to number our wrote, you know, teach us to number our days that we may develop a heart of days that we may develop a heart of days that we may develop a heart of wisdom."

wisdom." wisdom." Now, Now, Now, because because because again, my painful past and whatever, uh again, my painful past and whatever, uh again, my painful past and whatever, uh I took that so literally. So, we're I took that so literally. So, we're I took that so literally. So, we're talking January 1989. So, I went and of talking January 1989. So, I went and of talking January 1989. So, I went and of course he wrote, "70 years, 80 if you're course he wrote, "70 years, 80 if you're course he wrote, "70 years, 80 if you're lucky." I I added 10 more years. And so, lucky." I I added 10 more years. And so, lucky." I I added 10 more years. And so, I went, "Okay, assuming I live 90 I went, "Okay, assuming I live 90 I went, "Okay, assuming I live 90 years." years." years." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then did the count, how many actual >> And then did the count, how many actual >> And then did the count, how many actual days on this earth I would have from days on this earth I would have from days on this earth I would have from that time. I was 22. that time. I was 22. that time. I was 22. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> 22 to 90. >> 22 to 90. >> 22 to 90. And I said to the Lord, because I felt And I said to the Lord, because I felt And I said to the Lord, because I felt like I'd wasted so many, you know, and I like I'd wasted so many, you know, and I like I'd wasted so many, you know, and I I I I hated that I wasted so many. And I I I I hated that I wasted so many. And I I I I hated that I wasted so many. And I went, "Lord, if you give me this amount went, "Lord, if you give me this amount went, "Lord, if you give me this amount of days, I will give every single one of days, I will give every single one of days, I will give every single one >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> of them to you." And my staff and >> of them to you." And my staff and >> of them to you." And my staff and everyone will tell you, and um I have everyone will tell you, and um I have everyone will tell you, and um I have and down to now I've I've just writing a and down to now I've I've just writing a and down to now I've I've just writing a book about wisdom and I I've written book about wisdom and I I've written book about wisdom and I I've written about this chapter. And I said, um well, about this chapter. And I said, um well, about this chapter. And I said, um well, now I'm 60. So, I've only got this many now I'm 60. So, I've only got this many now I'm 60. So, I've only got this many days left. Uh assuming I Of course, God days left. Uh assuming I Of course, God days left. Uh assuming I Of course, God could take me home anytime, but I'm just could take me home anytime, but I'm just could take me home anytime, but I'm just going assuming I live going assuming I live going assuming I live >> And I think the thing I would say that >> And I think the thing I would say that >> And I think the thing I would say that my younger self did right was I started my younger self did right was I started my younger self did right was I started counting my days, because our days counting my days, because our days counting my days, because our days count. So, I numbered my days because I count. So, I numbered my days because I count. So, I numbered my days because I knew So, I have lived every day knowing knew So, I have lived every day knowing knew So, I have lived every day knowing my days are numbered. And so, that my days are numbered. And so, that my days are numbered. And so, that really affects really affects really affects >> Wow.

>> Wow. >> Wow. >> And so, um >> And so, um >> And so, um >> Good. >> Good. >> Good. >> I could say that and and so, >> I could say that and and so, >> I could say that and and so, you know, when I go, "Have I you know, when I go, "Have I you know, when I go, "Have I >> So, someone listening now, maybe they're >> So, someone listening now, maybe they're >> So, someone listening now, maybe they're younger or whatever age they are. younger or whatever age they are. younger or whatever age they are. >> You know, you you're like you can't >> You know, you you're like you can't >> You know, you you're like you can't change what has happened. change what has happened. change what has happened. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> But you have today, and you have the >> But you have today, and you have the >> But you have today, and you have the days before you. So, they could make a days before you. So, they could make a days before you. So, they could make a similar commitment to Christ that a similar commitment to Christ that a similar commitment to Christ that a younger you made. younger you made. younger you made. >> That's what I think. It doesn't matter >> That's what I think. It doesn't matter >> That's what I think. It doesn't matter what age you are, you've only got today. what age you are, you've only got today. what age you are, you've only got today. Um Um Um but but but >> numbering our days, I mean, if you want >> numbering our days, I mean, if you want >> numbering our days, I mean, if you want a heart of wisdom and to and to really a heart of wisdom and to and to really a heart of wisdom and to and to really learn to live wisely, uh the sooner you learn to live wisely, uh the sooner you learn to live wisely, uh the sooner you number your days because you realize number your days because you realize number your days because you realize your days are numbered. your days are numbered. your days are numbered. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I always say to people, this is why >> I always say to people, this is why >> I always say to people, this is why again we all know we're circling back to again we all know we're circling back to again we all know we're circling back to the eschatology, but I say to people, if the eschatology, but I say to people, if the eschatology, but I say to people, if it freaks you out that I'm talking about it freaks you out that I'm talking about it freaks you out that I'm talking about Jesus coming back or the end of the Jesus coming back or the end of the Jesus coming back or the end of the world, whatever, world, whatever, world, whatever, and you go, "If I knew Jesus was coming and you go, "If I knew Jesus was coming and you go, "If I knew Jesus was coming back tomorrow, I would change. I'd stop back tomorrow, I would change. I'd stop back tomorrow, I would change. I'd stop doing this, this, or this, or I'd start doing this, this, or this, or I'd start doing this, this, or this, or I'd start doing this." doing this." doing this." >> I go, I actually don't understand. Why >> I go, I actually don't understand. Why >> I go, I actually don't understand. Why aren't you doing that? Or why haven't aren't you doing that? Or why haven't aren't you doing that? Or why haven't you stopped doing that? you stopped doing that? you stopped doing that? >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> But, you every Christian ought to live >> But, you every Christian ought to live >> But, you every Christian ought to live as if it's going to happen tomorrow or as if it's going to happen tomorrow or as if it's going to happen tomorrow or today.

today. today. >> Very true. >> Very true. >> Very true. >> And plan as if it's not going to happen >> And plan as if it's not going to happen >> And plan as if it's not going to happen for generations. So, simultaneously, for generations. So, simultaneously, for generations. So, simultaneously, am I doing everything from our ministry, am I doing everything from our ministry, am I doing everything from our ministry, my children, my children, my children, >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> am I thinking generationally? >> am I thinking generationally? >> am I thinking generationally? Absolutely. Am am I living as if Jesus Absolutely. Am am I living as if Jesus Absolutely. Am am I living as if Jesus could come back today? Totally. could come back today? Totally. could come back today? Totally. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, am I ready? As ready as I know how >> So, am I ready? As ready as I know how >> So, am I ready? As ready as I know how >> to be. >> to be. >> to be. >> You know, I I >> You know, I I >> You know, I I And we ought to be. But, that to me is And we ought to be. But, that to me is And we ought to be. But, that to me is the Christian life. That's how you don't the Christian life. That's how you don't the Christian life. That's how you don't become a lukewarm Christian or just sort become a lukewarm Christian or just sort become a lukewarm Christian or just sort of a nominal Christian cuz you're in of a nominal Christian cuz you're in of a nominal Christian cuz you're in this thing called this world, and where this thing called this world, and where this thing called this world, and where you're thinking generationally and you're thinking generationally and you're thinking generationally and you're planning, but you're living you're planning, but you're living you're planning, but you're living urgently. Most Christians urgently. Most Christians urgently. Most Christians >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> live in panic. They don't live urgent. I >> live in panic. They don't live urgent. I >> live in panic. They don't live urgent. I don't panic, but I'm urgent. don't panic, but I'm urgent. don't panic, but I'm urgent. >> Good. Excellent. Yeah, someone asked >> Good. Excellent. Yeah, someone asked >> Good. Excellent. Yeah, someone asked D.L. Moody that question like, you know, D.L. Moody that question like, you know, D.L. Moody that question like, you know, how what would you do if you knew that how what would you do if you knew that how what would you do if you knew that this was your last day? He goes, "I'd this was your last day? He goes, "I'd this was your last day? He goes, "I'd live it as I live every day. I always live it as I live every day. I always live it as I live every day. I always live in anticipation. And even if it's live in anticipation. And even if it's live in anticipation. And even if it's not the day the Lord would come back, it not the day the Lord would come back, it not the day the Lord would come back, it could be the day when your life ends and could be the day when your life ends and could be the day when your life ends and you're going to the afterlife. And then you're going to the afterlife. And then you're going to the afterlife. And then there's the rewards and the judgment there's the rewards and the judgment there's the rewards and the judgment seat of Christ and all the things you've seat of Christ and all the things you've seat of Christ and all the things you've alluded to, but we don't have to be alluded to, but we don't have to be alluded to, but we don't have to be afraid. It's like Paul said, "To live is afraid. It's like Paul said, "To live is afraid. It's like Paul said, "To live is Christ and to die is gain."

Christ and to die is gain." Christ and to die is gain." >> I'm not going to smile on my face >> I'm not going to smile on my face >> I'm not going to smile on my face because cuz I I mean it. It's like, because cuz I I mean it. It's like, because cuz I I mean it. It's like, even even even if is there loss, suffering, grief? Yes, if is there loss, suffering, grief? Yes, if is there loss, suffering, grief? Yes, but I thought we are like those that but I thought we are like those that but I thought we are like those that grieve. grieve. grieve. We don't grieve with that hope. So, We don't grieve with that hope. So, We don't grieve with that hope. So, there if Jesus is this hope I have as an there if Jesus is this hope I have as an there if Jesus is this hope I have as an anchor for my soul both firm and secure. anchor for my soul both firm and secure. anchor for my soul both firm and secure. Well, that's it. And and I've had people Well, that's it. And and I've had people Well, that's it. And and I've had people go to me, "Chris, that's weird." I go go to me, "Chris, that's weird." I go go to me, "Chris, that's weird." I go I go, "No, that's that's being born I go, "No, that's that's being born I go, "No, that's that's being born again." again." again." That's what I would just think that is That's what I would just think that is That's what I would just think that is the normal Christian life. the normal Christian life. the normal Christian life. >> Yeah. Christine, I'm just so, you know, >> Yeah. Christine, I'm just so, you know, >> Yeah. Christine, I'm just so, you know, amazed by your life and you know, you amazed by your life and you know, you amazed by your life and you know, you you could have gone you could have gone you could have gone a different direction. You could have a different direction. You could have a different direction. You could have been an angry been an angry been an angry woman and uh and turned against God and woman and uh and turned against God and woman and uh and turned against God and then instead you turned to him. And then instead you turned to him. And then instead you turned to him. And you've taken this pain and you use it as you've taken this pain and you use it as you've taken this pain and you use it as a tool to help other people. a tool to help other people. a tool to help other people. And you know, and they'll listen to you And you know, and they'll listen to you And you know, and they'll listen to you because you know, it's been said that because you know, it's been said that because you know, it's been said that success builds walls and failure builds success builds walls and failure builds success builds walls and failure builds bridges. bridges. bridges. >> Beautiful. >> Beautiful. >> Beautiful. >> So, you know, if I'm up there and hey, I >> So, you know, if I'm up there and hey, I >> So, you know, if I'm up there and hey, I everything's awesome and you know, I'm everything's awesome and you know, I'm everything's awesome and you know, I'm all that and a bag of chips, who can all that and a bag of chips, who can all that and a bag of chips, who can relate to that? But when you talk about relate to that? But when you talk about relate to that? But when you talk about your story and what you've come through your story and what you've come through your story and what you've come through and how you've turned to the Lord, you and how you've turned to the Lord, you and how you've turned to the Lord, you know, it can inspire know, it can inspire know, it can inspire younger people. So, let's just end with younger people. So, let's just end with younger people. So, let's just end with this question.

this question. this question. You know, if there's a young person out You know, if there's a young person out You know, if there's a young person out there, you know, they feel unwanted, there, you know, they feel unwanted, there, you know, they feel unwanted, they feel unloved. they feel unloved. they feel unloved. What would you say to them? What would you say to them? What would you say to them? >> I want them to know that that God >> I want them to know that that God >> I want them to know that that God loves them, God sees them, that they're loves them, God sees them, that they're loves them, God sees them, that they're called, that they're chosen. You know, I called, that they're chosen. You know, I called, that they're chosen. You know, I I think, Greg, I think, Greg, I think, Greg, everything's changed and nothing's everything's changed and nothing's everything's changed and nothing's changed. You know, the very last verse changed. You know, the very last verse changed. You know, the very last verse before the fall before the fall before the fall in Genesis 2:25, it says Adam and Eve in Genesis 2:25, it says Adam and Eve in Genesis 2:25, it says Adam and Eve were naked and they knew no shame. There were naked and they knew no shame. There were naked and they knew no shame. There was was was there was this unhindered relationship there was this unhindered relationship there was this unhindered relationship between them and God. And then the enemy between them and God. And then the enemy between them and God. And then the enemy came straight in. came straight in. came straight in. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh to put something on them they were never to put something on them they were never to put something on them they were never created created created to carry. So, why would the Lord tell us to carry. So, why would the Lord tell us to carry. So, why would the Lord tell us you're not supposed to carry shame? Most you're not supposed to carry shame? Most you're not supposed to carry shame? Most people carry shame. They feel so unseen people carry shame. They feel so unseen people carry shame. They feel so unseen by God because of guilt, shame, by God because of guilt, shame, by God because of guilt, shame, condemnation. condemnation. condemnation. I certainly was like that for years. And I certainly was like that for years. And I certainly was like that for years. And that's really the enemy because it's that's really the enemy because it's that's really the enemy because it's like I'm going to put something on you like I'm going to put something on you like I'm going to put something on you that you were never created to bear the that you were never created to bear the that you were never created to bear the burden of, so that you burden of, so that you burden of, so that you run from God instead of to God. And so, run from God instead of to God. And so, run from God instead of to God. And so, the the three questions in Genesis 3 is the the three questions in Genesis 3 is the the three questions in Genesis 3 is what I want to say to someone is that what I want to say to someone is that what I want to say to someone is that the enemy comes in and you know, the the enemy comes in and you know, the the enemy comes in and you know, the first question in the Bible is from the first question in the Bible is from the first question in the Bible is from the devil.

devil. devil. Did God really say? So, I need someone Did God really say? So, I need someone Did God really say? So, I need someone to know to know to know the lie you believe is it something God the lie you believe is it something God the lie you believe is it something God said or said or said or is it something culture says or social is it something culture says or social is it something culture says or social media says or in my case, you know, the media says or in my case, you know, the media says or in my case, you know, the abuser said or you know, whatever abuser said or you know, whatever abuser said or you know, whatever happened happened happened did God really say that or um did God really say that or um did God really say that or um or was it some the enemy or culture or or was it some the enemy or culture or or was it some the enemy or culture or society, you know, and then society, you know, and then society, you know, and then the the Lord says the same thing. He the the Lord says the same thing. He the the Lord says the same thing. He goes, you know, where are you? You know, goes, you know, where are you? You know, goes, you know, where are you? You know, the first question God asks in the the first question God asks in the the first question God asks in the Bible. And I think the Lord would be Bible. And I think the Lord would be Bible. And I think the Lord would be asking that to us every day. asking that to us every day. asking that to us every day. And someone he's like, where are you? And someone he's like, where are you? And someone he's like, where are you? Where is the you that I created? Where Where is the you that I created? Where Where is the you that I created? Where is the you full of God-given potential, is the you full of God-given potential, is the you full of God-given potential, the you that I love? the you that I love? the you that I love? And then um, you know, Adam, first And then um, you know, Adam, first And then um, you know, Adam, first recorded conversation between Adam and recorded conversation between Adam and recorded conversation between Adam and God was fear, shame, and hiding. It was, God was fear, shame, and hiding. It was, God was fear, shame, and hiding. It was, you know, I was naked and afraid and so you know, I was naked and afraid and so you know, I was naked and afraid and so I hid. And I think that's how we talk to I hid. And I think that's how we talk to I hid. And I think that's how we talk to God. God. God. I was I'm afraid or I'm naked, you know, I was I'm afraid or I'm naked, you know, I was I'm afraid or I'm naked, you know, and so I'm hiding. And I'm like, you and so I'm hiding. And I'm like, you and so I'm hiding. And I'm like, you don't have to talk to God like that. You don't have to talk to God like that. You don't have to talk to God like that. You could talk to him as a son, as a could talk to him as a son, as a could talk to him as a son, as a daughter, knowing that you are fully daughter, knowing that you are fully daughter, knowing that you are fully loved, fully known, fully seen, fully loved, fully known, fully seen, fully loved, fully known, fully seen, fully forgiven because of the redemptive work forgiven because of the redemptive work forgiven because of the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross. He he sees of Jesus Christ on the cross. He he sees of Jesus Christ on the cross. He he sees you.

you. you. And then, you know, And then, you know, And then, you know, the Lord asked him, he goes, "Who told the Lord asked him, he goes, "Who told the Lord asked him, he goes, "Who told you?" you?" you?" And I think that's the thing that you've And I think that's the thing that you've And I think that's the thing that you've got to understand, who told you the lie got to understand, who told you the lie got to understand, who told you the lie that you believe. that you believe. that you believe. Um, and will you elevate the voice of Um, and will you elevate the voice of Um, and will you elevate the voice of God above every other voice in your God above every other voice in your God above every other voice in your life? Because the voice of God says life? Because the voice of God says life? Because the voice of God says you're loved, you're chosen, you're you're loved, you're chosen, you're you're loved, you're chosen, you're forgiven. forgiven. forgiven. You're not condemned, you're valued. And You're not condemned, you're valued. And You're not condemned, you're valued. And I think we're living in a world where I think we're living in a world where I think we're living in a world where we're bombarded with so much noise. And we're bombarded with so much noise. And we're bombarded with so much noise. And you got to choose what voices you let you got to choose what voices you let you got to choose what voices you let >> That's it with social media, it's so >> That's it with social media, it's so >> That's it with social media, it's so amplified. amplified. amplified. >> You got to turn it off because >> You got to turn it off because >> You got to turn it off because it's the same conversation almost that it's the same conversation almost that it's the same conversation almost that was happening in the Garden of Eden. It was happening in the Garden of Eden. It was happening in the Garden of Eden. It still exists in 2026 on planet Earth. still exists in 2026 on planet Earth. still exists in 2026 on planet Earth. And but it's amplified with social media And but it's amplified with social media And but it's amplified with social media and everything. So, it's you know, did and everything. So, it's you know, did and everything. So, it's you know, did God really say? Now again, anytime the God really say? Now again, anytime the God really say? Now again, anytime the enemy wants to undermine a generation, enemy wants to undermine a generation, enemy wants to undermine a generation, he's going to try to undermine the he's going to try to undermine the he's going to try to undermine the authority of the word of God. So, we're authority of the word of God. So, we're authority of the word of God. So, we're living in another cycle of that. You and living in another cycle of that. You and living in another cycle of that. You and I have lived long enough where it's I have lived long enough where it's I have lived long enough where it's like, this word's not really true. Did like, this word's not really true. Did like, this word's not really true. Did God really say? God really say? God really say? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Did God really say? You know, and and >> Did God really say? You know, and and >> Did God really say? You know, and and it's like, yes. So, um and I think it's like, yes. So, um and I think it's like, yes. So, um and I think knowing what God says, that knowing what God says, that knowing what God says, that knowing where you are. Are you in hiding knowing where you are. Are you in hiding knowing where you are. Are you in hiding or is it time to run to him? And take or is it time to run to him? And take or is it time to run to him? And take your all your brokenness, your pain, your all your brokenness, your pain, your all your brokenness, your pain, your suffering to him knowing that um he your suffering to him knowing that um he your suffering to him knowing that um he forgives us. God also says, if you forgives us. God also says, if you forgives us. God also says, if you confess your sin. This was the most confess your sin. This was the most confess your sin. This was the most liberating thing I ever heard, that he's liberating thing I ever heard, that he's liberating thing I ever heard, that he's faithful and just to forgive me my sin faithful and just to forgive me my sin faithful and just to forgive me my sin and cleanse me from all unrighteousness.

and cleanse me from all unrighteousness. and cleanse me from all unrighteousness. And I want someone to know that um And I want someone to know that um And I want someone to know that um God is light and in him there is no God is light and in him there is no God is light and in him there is no darkness. If you're like me and you come darkness. If you're like me and you come darkness. If you're like me and you come from a background of abuse or pain or from a background of abuse or pain or from a background of abuse or pain or suffering, it's hard to trust people. suffering, it's hard to trust people. suffering, it's hard to trust people. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh but when I realized that God is light >> Uh but when I realized that God is light >> Uh but when I realized that God is light and that he has no dark side. and that he has no dark side. and that he has no dark side. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> People have a dark side. God doesn't. >> People have a dark side. God doesn't. >> People have a dark side. God doesn't. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> God is light and in him there is no >> God is light and in him there is no >> God is light and in him there is no darkness. You can fully trust him. darkness. You can fully trust him. darkness. You can fully trust him. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> That's what I want to tell people. >> That's what I want to tell people. >> That's what I want to tell people. >> That's a good message. Thanks. >> That's a good message. Thanks. >> That's a good message. Thanks. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> Hey, thanks for joining me today. >> Hey, thanks for joining me today. >> Hey, thanks for joining me today. Subscribe to my YouTube channel, follow Subscribe to my YouTube channel, follow Subscribe to my YouTube channel, follow me on social media, and be sure to me on social media, and be sure to me on social media, and be sure to download the Harvest Plus app where you download the Harvest Plus app where you download the Harvest Plus app where you will find exclusive content just for will find exclusive content just for will find exclusive content just for you. you. you. See you next time.