Billy Graham's Secret | Greg Laurie & Chuck Swindoll

When you have been hurt deeply, When you have been hurt deeply, you change grace. you change grace. you change grace. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You become >> You become >> You become more thoughtful, more thoughtful, more thoughtful, >> more compassionate, >> more compassionate, >> more compassionate, more caring. That is the making more caring. That is the making more caring. That is the making of a good shepherd. >> Okay, we're in Texas. It's a little bit >> Okay, we're in Texas. It's a little bit gloomy out, but I'm so excited and I gloomy out, but I'm so excited and I gloomy out, but I'm so excited and I just can't hide it. I know. I know just can't hide it. I know. I know just can't hide it. I know. I know that's a song. No, I'm on my way to that's a song. No, I'm on my way to that's a song. No, I'm on my way to interview a living legend for sure. interview a living legend for sure. interview a living legend for sure. Chuck Swindoll. Chuck Swindoll. Chuck Swindoll. He's heard on over 2,000 stations, radio He's heard on over 2,000 stations, radio He's heard on over 2,000 stations, radio stations around the world in his stations around the world in his stations around the world in his program, Insight for Living, but we're program, Insight for Living, but we're program, Insight for Living, but we're going to do a podcast. So, it's long going to do a podcast. So, it's long going to do a podcast. So, it's long form. And I'm going to ask him some form. And I'm going to ask him some form. And I'm going to ask him some questions, and I think he's going to ask questions, and I think he's going to ask questions, and I think he's going to ask me some as well. He's a man of God.

me some as well. He's a man of God. me some as well. He's a man of God. That's what was said of Moses. Moses, That's what was said of Moses. Moses, That's what was said of Moses. Moses, the man of God, and Chuck has walked the man of God, and Chuck has walked the man of God, and Chuck has walked with integrity before the Lord and has with integrity before the Lord and has with integrity before the Lord and has only deepened in his knowledge and only deepened in his knowledge and only deepened in his knowledge and ability to communicate the scripture. I ability to communicate the scripture. I ability to communicate the scripture. I think what I really love about his think what I really love about his think what I really love about his speaking is it's always been very speaking is it's always been very speaking is it's always been very accessible. He says he likes to offer accessible. He says he likes to offer accessible. He says he likes to offer theology without apology. And I like theology without apology. And I like theology without apology. And I like that cuz he is very theological, lots of that cuz he is very theological, lots of that cuz he is very theological, lots of content and depth in his teaching, but content and depth in his teaching, but content and depth in his teaching, but he's always made it very appealing. he's always made it very appealing. he's always made it very appealing. Great humor, excellent illustrations. Great humor, excellent illustrations. Great humor, excellent illustrations. I think he's maybe the greatest living I think he's maybe the greatest living I think he's maybe the greatest living preacher today. I'm hoping to glean from preacher today. I'm hoping to glean from preacher today. I'm hoping to glean from his many years of walking with the Lord. his many years of walking with the Lord. his many years of walking with the Lord. I'm 73, I'm 73, I'm 73, Chuck is 91. So, one question I'm going Chuck is 91. So, one question I'm going Chuck is 91. So, one question I'm going to ask Chuck is, "What would an older to ask Chuck is, "What would an older to ask Chuck is, "What would an older Chuck say to a younger Chuck?" Then I'm Chuck say to a younger Chuck?" Then I'm Chuck say to a younger Chuck?" Then I'm going to say, "What would a 91year-old going to say, "What would a 91year-old going to say, "What would a 91year-old Chuck say to a 73 year old Chuck?"

Chuck say to a 73 year old Chuck?" Chuck say to a 73 year old Chuck?" [music] Hey everybody, I'm really [music] Hey everybody, I'm really [music] Hey everybody, I'm really excited to be in studio with a really a excited to be in studio with a really a excited to be in studio with a really a living legend. Uh, one of the greatest living legend. Uh, one of the greatest living legend. Uh, one of the greatest Bible teachers of all time, one that has Bible teachers of all time, one that has Bible teachers of all time, one that has been a blessing to me for decades. Uh, been a blessing to me for decades. Uh, been a blessing to me for decades. Uh, I've listened to him, his radio show, of I've listened to him, his radio show, of I've listened to him, his radio show, of course, his podcast, and much more. He's course, his podcast, and much more. He's course, his podcast, and much more. He's a prolific author. He's on 2,000 radio a prolific author. He's on 2,000 radio a prolific author. He's on 2,000 radio stations. Insight for Living is the name stations. Insight for Living is the name stations. Insight for Living is the name of his program. I'm here with Pastor of his program. I'm here with Pastor of his program. I'm here with Pastor Chuck Swendall. Chuck Swendall. Chuck Swendall. >> How long have we known each other? >> How long have we known each other? >> How long have we known each other? >> Oh my goodness. Well, I think >> Oh my goodness. Well, I think >> Oh my goodness. Well, I think >> it mean the early 70s. >> it mean the early 70s. >> it mean the early 70s. >> Maybe the 80s. It could have been the >> Maybe the 80s. It could have been the >> Maybe the 80s. It could have been the early 70s, the 80s. I mean, I've been early 70s, the 80s. I mean, I've been early 70s, the 80s. I mean, I've been listening to you. I've been listening to listening to you. I've been listening to listening to you. I've been listening to you so long. I remember when your radio you so long. I remember when your radio you so long. I remember when your radio show was called New Standard. show was called New Standard. show was called New Standard. >> New Standard for Living. Well, you do go >> New Standard for Living. Well, you do go >> New Standard for Living. Well, you do go back. back. back. >> Yeah. Then you became Insight for >> Yeah. Then you became Insight for >> Yeah. Then you became Insight for Living. Living. Living. >> It was uh 1977. >> It was uh 1977. >> It was uh 1977. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And then 79 we changed to Insight for >> And then 79 we changed to Insight for >> And then 79 we changed to Insight for Living. Living. Living. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> But to this day, I listen to you all the >> But to this day, I listen to you all the >> But to this day, I listen to you all the time. I hate to say this. Don't take it time. I hate to say this. Don't take it time. I hate to say this. Don't take it the wrong way, but I listen to you and the wrong way, but I listen to you and the wrong way, but I listen to you and you put me to sleep. Okay. [laughter] you put me to sleep. Okay. [laughter] you put me to sleep. Okay. [laughter] But but in the best way possible. I had But but in the best way possible. I had But but in the best way possible. I had people tell me that all the time. I people tell me that all the time. I people tell me that all the time. I said, "Y'all put people to sleep. I'm said, "Y'all put people to sleep. I'm said, "Y'all put people to sleep. I'm like my anesthesiologist." [laughter] like my anesthesiologist." [laughter] like my anesthesiologist." [laughter] They go right out, man.

They go right out, man. They go right out, man. >> Yeah. No, but it's you're, you know, >> Yeah. No, but it's you're, you know, >> Yeah. No, but it's you're, you know, you're teaching. I mean, I believe, you're teaching. I mean, I believe, you're teaching. I mean, I believe, Chuck, and I've said this publicly, I Chuck, and I've said this publicly, I Chuck, and I've said this publicly, I believe that you are the the greatest believe that you are the the greatest believe that you are the the greatest living preacher that I know of. I mean I living preacher that I know of. I mean I living preacher that I know of. I mean I mean it's hard to say the greatest cuz mean it's hard to say the greatest cuz mean it's hard to say the greatest cuz we all have certain preachers we love we all have certain preachers we love we all have certain preachers we love for different reasons but but just kind for different reasons but but just kind for different reasons but but just kind of to me of to me of to me >> plus you've only heard about three or >> plus you've only heard about three or >> plus you've only heard about three or four so I'm one of them. I've heard many four so I'm one of them. I've heard many four so I'm one of them. I've heard many preachers, many preachers. I love to preachers, many preachers. I love to preachers, many preachers. I love to listen, you know, though I am a listen, you know, though I am a listen, you know, though I am a preacher, I love to listen to preaching. preacher, I love to listen to preaching. preacher, I love to listen to preaching. Yep. Yep. Yep. >> And and I love to read and a lot a lot >> And and I love to read and a lot a lot >> And and I love to read and a lot a lot of the people I listen to are no longer of the people I listen to are no longer of the people I listen to are no longer alive. You know, I I love to I found alive. You know, I I love to I found alive. You know, I I love to I found some guy that does an AI version of some guy that does an AI version of some guy that does an AI version of Spurgeon sermons. So, it's like, you Spurgeon sermons. So, it's like, you Spurgeon sermons. So, it's like, you know, it's reading the sermons of know, it's reading the sermons of know, it's reading the sermons of Spurgeon and they're so rich and deep Spurgeon and they're so rich and deep Spurgeon and they're so rich and deep and Oh, yeah. You know, but and Oh, yeah. You know, but and Oh, yeah. You know, but >> I'm a Spersian fan, too. I've I've got >> I'm a Spersian fan, too. I've I've got >> I'm a Spersian fan, too. I've I've got about I I don't have everything he's about I I don't have everything he's about I I don't have everything he's written, but I've got a number of the written, but I've got a number of the written, but I've got a number of the books he wrote. books he wrote. books he wrote. >> Well, I feel what you do so well and >> Well, I feel what you do so well and >> Well, I feel what you do so well and there's a phrase you use. You offer there's a phrase you use. You offer there's a phrase you use. You offer theology without apology.

theology without apology. theology without apology. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I like [clears throat] that. >> I like [clears throat] that. >> I like [clears throat] that. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Cuz you have content. It's biblically >> Cuz you have content. It's biblically >> Cuz you have content. It's biblically rich and deep, but it's I've always rich and deep, but it's I've always rich and deep, but it's I've always found you to be very practical. In fact, found you to be very practical. In fact, found you to be very practical. In fact, there's a joke you told that I've tried there's a joke you told that I've tried there's a joke you told that I've tried to tell on five occasions and it bombs to tell on five occasions and it bombs to tell on five occasions and it bombs every time. And for some reason, this every time. And for some reason, this every time. And for some reason, this joke works for you, but when I tell it, joke works for you, but when I tell it, joke works for you, but when I tell it, it doesn't work. And I want to tell you it doesn't work. And I want to tell you it doesn't work. And I want to tell you what the joke is. It's a story about the what the joke is. It's a story about the what the joke is. It's a story about the guy who fell in love with the opera guy who fell in love with the opera guy who fell in love with the opera singer. singer. singer. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> And I think as I'm telling it, people >> And I think as I'm telling it, people >> And I think as I'm telling it, people think it's a true story. think it's a true story. think it's a true story. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> And they start feeling bad. But tell us >> And they start feeling bad. But tell us >> And they start feeling bad. But tell us that joke. that joke. that joke. >> Yeah. He fell in love with the opera >> Yeah. He fell in love with the opera >> Yeah. He fell in love with the opera singer. And I can't believe we're singer. And I can't believe we're singer. And I can't believe we're starting the broadcast, Mr. President, starting the broadcast, Mr. President, starting the broadcast, Mr. President, this interview like this, but I I'll this interview like this, but I I'll this interview like this, but I I'll tell it. He fell in love with this tell it. He fell in love with this tell it. He fell in love with this ladies uh and and he kept going to the ladies uh and and he kept going to the ladies uh and and he kept going to the opera and boy she sang one opera after opera and boy she sang one opera after opera and boy she sang one opera after another. Yeah. And finally he asked her another. Yeah. And finally he asked her another. Yeah. And finally he asked her would you consider going out with me and would you consider going out with me and would you consider going out with me and she said yes and they fell in love and she said yes and they fell in love and she said yes and they fell in love and and uh and uh and uh >> he got married. Yes. Just almost in a >> he got married. Yes. Just almost in a >> he got married. Yes. Just almost in a whirlwind. Yes. Well, the night of the whirlwind. Yes. Well, the night of the whirlwind. Yes. Well, the night of the first night together, the uh she uh first night together, the uh she uh first night together, the uh she uh pulled out a false eye and put it in a pulled out a false eye and put it in a pulled out a false eye and put it in a little box and [laughter] pulled out her little box and [laughter] pulled out her little box and [laughter] pulled out her both set top and lower and and upper both set top and lower and and upper both set top and lower and and upper teeth and put them in another box. And teeth and put them in another box. And teeth and put them in another box. And he she pulled off a prosthetic leg and he she pulled off a prosthetic leg and he she pulled off a prosthetic leg and popped it in the frame that she had for popped it in the frame that she had for popped it in the frame that she had for it. And uh I I think she had hearing it. And uh I I think she had hearing it. And uh I I think she had hearing aids she had to take out. and and he aids she had to take out. and and he aids she had to take out. and and he looked at and he said, "Hey, lady,

looked at and he said, "Hey, lady, looked at and he said, "Hey, lady, sing." sing." sing." [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Yes. So, I told that joke. >> Yes. So, I told that joke. >> Yes. So, I told that joke. >> Isn't that funny? But it >> Isn't that funny? But it >> Isn't that funny? But it >> I think it's hilarious, but it's a >> I think it's hilarious, but it's a >> I think it's hilarious, but it's a little twisted. And that's why I liked little twisted. And that's why I liked little twisted. And that's why I liked it so much. it so much. it so much. >> A little Yeah. You got to be careful >> A little Yeah. You got to be careful >> A little Yeah. You got to be careful because there are people there with because there are people there with because there are people there with prosthetic. prosthetic. prosthetic. >> Yeah, that's it. I think the glass eyes. >> Yeah, that's it. I think the glass eyes. >> Yeah, that's it. I think the glass eyes. >> They think I'm telling a true story and >> They think I'm telling a true story and >> They think I'm telling a true story and it bumps, but I haven't given up. I'm it bumps, but I haven't given up. I'm it bumps, but I haven't given up. I'm going to keep trying to tell it. But you going to keep trying to tell it. But you going to keep trying to tell it. But you seem to be able to tell it better. seem to be able to tell it better. seem to be able to tell it better. >> Well, some of my jokes are a little >> Well, some of my jokes are a little >> Well, some of my jokes are a little risky, so you got to be careful. I love risky, so you got to be careful. I love risky, so you got to be careful. I love that though. that though. that though. >> But anyway, I got to California and you >> But anyway, I got to California and you >> But anyway, I got to California and you and you'd lived there all your life. and you'd lived there all your life. and you'd lived there all your life. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> And I got there in 71, >> And I got there in 71, >> And I got there in 71, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> So, we got underway in that north >> So, we got underway in that north >> So, we got underway in that north central part of Orange County. central part of Orange County. central part of Orange County. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And uh I was there for the explosion and >> And uh I was there for the explosion and >> And uh I was there for the explosion and you were too. You were part of the you were too. You were part of the you were too. You were part of the explosion. And uh I I I want to go back explosion. And uh I I I want to go back explosion. And uh I I I want to go back >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> in your life [clears throat] >> in your life [clears throat] >> in your life [clears throat] very early. tell us a a sort of a quick very early. tell us a a sort of a quick very early. tell us a a sort of a quick and dirty analysis of your beginning, and dirty analysis of your beginning, and dirty analysis of your beginning, your home, your your your world when you your home, your your your world when you your home, your your your world when you were lost.

were lost. were lost. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And how you became a Christian. >> And how you became a Christian. >> And how you became a Christian. >> Okay. Well, I was born in 1952. >> Okay. Well, I was born in 1952. >> Okay. Well, I was born in 1952. I didn't find out till much later that I didn't find out till much later that I didn't find out till much later that because there was a man's name on my because there was a man's name on my because there was a man's name on my birth certificate that I found out later birth certificate that I found out later birth certificate that I found out later was not my biological father. And in was not my biological father. And in was not my biological father. And in fact, I was the product of a one night fact, I was the product of a one night fact, I was the product of a one night stand. My mother was incredibly stand. My mother was incredibly stand. My mother was incredibly beautiful. And Chuck, that's why I'm so beautiful. And Chuck, that's why I'm so beautiful. And Chuck, that's why I'm so handsome. handsome. handsome. >> Is that right? Yeah. >> Is that right? Yeah. >> Is that right? Yeah. >> I wonder what it was. Yeah. Boy, that's >> I wonder what it was. Yeah. Boy, that's >> I wonder what it was. Yeah. Boy, that's great. great. great. >> No, she My mother was literally a dead >> No, she My mother was literally a dead >> No, she My mother was literally a dead ringer for Marilyn Monroe. And I'm not ringer for Marilyn Monroe. And I'm not ringer for Marilyn Monroe. And I'm not exaggerating. exaggerating. exaggerating. >> Oh my. >> Oh my. >> Oh my. >> She really was. She was a man magnet. >> She really was. She was a man magnet. >> She really was. She was a man magnet. So, she was married and divorced seven So, she was married and divorced seven So, she was married and divorced seven times. and she she was from a Southern times. and she she was from a Southern times. and she she was from a Southern Baptist family, raised going to the Baptist family, raised going to the Baptist family, raised going to the church, but she was the prodigal child. church, but she was the prodigal child. church, but she was the prodigal child. And she went out and got married over And she went out and got married over And she went out and got married over and over again. So, she had a fling in and over again. So, she had a fling in and over again. So, she had a fling in Long Beach, and I was conceived. And so, Long Beach, and I was conceived. And so, Long Beach, and I was conceived. And so, she married a man quickly, put his name she married a man quickly, put his name she married a man quickly, put his name on my birth certificate, and I found on my birth certificate, and I found on my birth certificate, and I found that out much later. But, but she was that out much later. But, but she was that out much later. But, but she was also a raging alcoholic. And when I say also a raging alcoholic. And when I say also a raging alcoholic. And when I say an alcoholic, I mean she drank to excess an alcoholic, I mean she drank to excess an alcoholic, I mean she drank to excess every night where she would pass out. So every night where she would pass out. So every night where she would pass out. So in many ways I had to grow up quickly in many ways I had to grow up quickly in many ways I had to grow up quickly and become the almost like the adult and become the almost like the adult and become the almost like the adult even though I was a child.

even though I was a child. even though I was a child. >> Are you the only child? >> Are you the only child? >> Are you the only child? >> Well she I have a half brother but he >> Well she I have a half brother but he >> Well she I have a half brother but he was not with us for most of my was not with us for most of my was not with us for most of my childhood. He lived with his father. childhood. He lived with his father. childhood. He lived with his father. >> So you kind of raised yourself >> So you kind of raised yourself >> So you kind of raised yourself >> in many ways I did. I jokingly tell >> in many ways I did. I jokingly tell >> in many ways I did. I jokingly tell people well you know I was raised by people well you know I was raised by people well you know I was raised by wolves and I mean I had no one to teach wolves and I mean I had no one to teach wolves and I mean I had no one to teach me anything. So I had to fend for me anything. So I had to fend for me anything. So I had to fend for myself. I learned to think for myself. I myself. I learned to think for myself. I myself. I learned to think for myself. I it was I had to develop survival skills it was I had to develop survival skills it was I had to develop survival skills and I had to look out for my mother and I had to look out for my mother and I had to look out for my mother because she would drive really drunk. In because she would drive really drunk. In because she would drive really drunk. In fact, one night I wasn't with her this fact, one night I wasn't with her this fact, one night I wasn't with her this night. She drove over the median into an night. She drove over the median into an night. She drove over the median into an oncoming lane in the steering wheel oncoming lane in the steering wheel oncoming lane in the steering wheel almost cut her in half and she almost almost cut her in half and she almost almost cut her in half and she almost died. But she, you know, that she just died. But she, you know, that she just died. But she, you know, that she just lived this tumultuous life and but you lived this tumultuous life and but you lived this tumultuous life and but you know, you look back and you realize know, you look back and you realize know, you look back and you realize that, that, that, >> you know, God had a plan for us even >> you know, God had a plan for us even >> you know, God had a plan for us even before we were born. before we were born. before we were born. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and I can see like the psalmist >> And and I can see like the psalmist >> And and I can see like the psalmist says, "In my mother's womb, you formed says, "In my mother's womb, you formed says, "In my mother's womb, you formed me." me." me." >> And and I can see that even the bad >> And and I can see that even the bad >> And and I can see that even the bad things that happened to me in my life things that happened to me in my life things that happened to me in my life were preparing me for what I needed to were preparing me for what I needed to were preparing me for what I needed to do, which was to see my need for Christ, do, which was to see my need for Christ, do, which was to see my need for Christ, which happened at the age of 17. So fast which happened at the age of 17. So fast which happened at the age of 17. So fast forward, I unfortunately followed in my forward, I unfortunately followed in my forward, I unfortunately followed in my mother's footsteps. I was drinking mother's footsteps. I was drinking mother's footsteps. I was drinking myself, partying. Then I got into drugs myself, partying. Then I got into drugs myself, partying. Then I got into drugs and and it was I even before I was a and and it was I even before I was a and and it was I even before I was a Christian, I knew drugs was a dead end.

Christian, I knew drugs was a dead end. Christian, I knew drugs was a dead end. I didn't want to go that way. And it was I didn't want to go that way. And it was I didn't want to go that way. And it was almost like process of elimination, almost like process of elimination, almost like process of elimination, Chuck. Like, well, I know the answer is Chuck. Like, well, I know the answer is Chuck. Like, well, I know the answer is not on my mother's lifestyle. I know the not on my mother's lifestyle. I know the not on my mother's lifestyle. I know the answer isn't the lifestyle. I've chosen answer isn't the lifestyle. I've chosen answer isn't the lifestyle. I've chosen what is it? And on my high school what is it? And on my high school what is it? And on my high school campus, the Jesus movement was campus, the Jesus movement was campus, the Jesus movement was happening. happening. happening. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And all these young kids were coming to >> And all these young kids were coming to >> And all these young kids were coming to Christ. And I happened upon one of their Christ. And I happened upon one of their Christ. And I happened upon one of their meetings on the front lawn of my high meetings on the front lawn of my high meetings on the front lawn of my high school campus, Newport Harbor High school campus, Newport Harbor High school campus, Newport Harbor High School in Newport Beach. And and there School in Newport Beach. And and there School in Newport Beach. And and there was uh they were singing worship songs was uh they were singing worship songs was uh they were singing worship songs and and there was a guy and and there was a guy and and there was a guy >> right there at the school. >> right there at the school. >> right there at the school. >> Right there at school. Yeah. And I found >> Right there at school. Yeah. And I found >> Right there at school. Yeah. And I found out an interesting thing. Normally they out an interesting thing. Normally they out an interesting thing. Normally they met in the science room at lunchtime for met in the science room at lunchtime for met in the science room at lunchtime for their little Bible study, but the air their little Bible study, but the air their little Bible study, but the air conditioner broke that day. So they went conditioner broke that day. So they went conditioner broke that day. So they went outside on the front lawn. I would have outside on the front lawn. I would have outside on the front lawn. I would have never gone into a classroom to see this. never gone into a classroom to see this. never gone into a classroom to see this. I came across it. I sat down at a I came across it. I sat down at a I came across it. I sat down at a distance close enough to hear what they distance close enough to hear what they distance close enough to hear what they were saying, but far enough away where were saying, but far enough away where were saying, but far enough away where people wouldn't think I'm becoming a people wouldn't think I'm becoming a people wouldn't think I'm becoming a Christian because I had not no intention Christian because I had not no intention Christian because I had not no intention of doing that. But I looked at them of doing that. But I looked at them of doing that. But I looked at them singing. I looked at the peace they singing. I looked at the peace they singing. I looked at the peace they seemed to have. And then a guy got up to seemed to have. And then a guy got up to seemed to have. And then a guy got up to speak and he gave a little gospel speak and he gave a little gospel speak and he gave a little gospel presentation presentation presentation >> and one statement stuck with me. He >> and one statement stuck with me. He >> and one statement stuck with me. He said, "Jesus said you're either for me said, "Jesus said you're either for me said, "Jesus said you're either for me or against me." And I looked at the or against me." And I looked at the or against me." And I looked at the Christians and I thought, "Well, I'm not Christians and I thought, "Well, I'm not Christians and I thought, "Well, I'm not one of them. Does that mean I'm against one of them. Does that mean I'm against one of them. Does that mean I'm against Jesus, but I knew so little about Jesus, Jesus, but I knew so little about Jesus, Jesus, but I knew so little about Jesus, Chuck? My knowledge of Jesus was Chuck? My knowledge of Jesus was Chuck? My knowledge of Jesus was watching the Benur movie."

watching the Benur movie." watching the Benur movie." >> Oh, I see. >> Oh, I see. >> Oh, I see. >> It was like watching King of Kings, >> It was like watching King of Kings, >> It was like watching King of Kings, another movie about another movie about another movie about >> He was distant >> He was distant >> He was distant >> kind of a a glow up there, >> kind of a a glow up there, >> kind of a a glow up there, >> right? But I believed he was there. I >> right? But I believed he was there. I >> right? But I believed he was there. I believed he was there. What I knew of believed he was there. What I knew of believed he was there. What I knew of him. him. him. >> And when I realized that I could have a >> And when I realized that I could have a >> And when I realized that I could have a relationship with Jesus Christ, this uh relationship with Jesus Christ, this uh relationship with Jesus Christ, this uh preacher whose name was Lonnie Frisbee, preacher whose name was Lonnie Frisbee, preacher whose name was Lonnie Frisbee, invited people to come to Christ, I went invited people to come to Christ, I went invited people to come to Christ, I went forward and I prayed. And that was the forward and I prayed. And that was the forward and I prayed. And that was the day that Christ came into my life. day that Christ came into my life. day that Christ came into my life. >> How old were you? >> How old were you? >> How old were you? >> 17. >> 17. >> 17. >> Man. >> Man. >> Man. >> Yeah. But I thought >> Yeah. But I thought >> Yeah. But I thought >> So you you didn't have a Bible. You >> So you you didn't have a Bible. You >> So you you didn't have a Bible. You didn't have any training whatever didn't have any training whatever didn't have any training whatever >> in the scriptures. I I don't think I'd >> in the scriptures. I I don't think I'd >> in the scriptures. I I don't think I'd ever opened the Bible in my life. ever opened the Bible in my life. ever opened the Bible in my life. >> Had you ever been to a church? >> Had you ever been to a church? >> Had you ever been to a church? >> I had with I lived with my grandparents >> I had with I lived with my grandparents >> I had with I lived with my grandparents for a while when my mother was out for a while when my mother was out for a while when my mother was out running around and I went to church with running around and I went to church with running around and I went to church with them a few times. them a few times. them a few times. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And >> And >> And >> but it didn't >> but it didn't >> but it didn't >> I was just didn't click. I It was just >> I was just didn't click. I It was just >> I was just didn't click. I It was just boring to me. Y boring to me. Y boring to me. Y >> it didn't make sense to me yet. Y >> it didn't make sense to me yet. Y >> it didn't make sense to me yet. Y >> So I was just a blank slate which in >> So I was just a blank slate which in >> So I was just a blank slate which in some ways was good because I was some ways was good because I was some ways was good because I was >> You didn't have to unlearn something.

>> You didn't have to unlearn something. >> You didn't have to unlearn something. >> Didn't have to unlearn anything. >> Didn't have to unlearn anything. >> Didn't have to unlearn anything. >> That's so good. I had no negative >> That's so good. I had no negative >> That's so good. I had no negative impressions of the church. I had no impressions of the church. I had no impressions of the church. I had no impressions of the church. So, I was impressions of the church. So, I was impressions of the church. So, I was ready to hear the word of God, you know, ready to hear the word of God, you know, ready to hear the word of God, you know, and I thought about a parallel in our and I thought about a parallel in our and I thought about a parallel in our lives, Chuck, because I heard you say lives, Chuck, because I heard you say lives, Chuck, because I heard you say recently that you, you know, your uh recently that you, you know, your uh recently that you, you know, your uh brother Orville and your sister Lucy, brother Orville and your sister Lucy, brother Orville and your sister Lucy, >> uh, each one was favored by your >> uh, each one was favored by your >> uh, each one was favored by your parents. parents. parents. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> They didn't give you that attention. And >> They didn't give you that attention. And >> They didn't give you that attention. And your mother even said to you, you were your mother even said to you, you were your mother even said to you, you were an accident be because you weren't an accident be because you weren't an accident be because you weren't planned. planned. planned. >> Yeah. I I didn't know what accident >> Yeah. I I didn't know what accident >> Yeah. I I didn't know what accident meant. I was about five. Four or five. meant. I was about five. Four or five. meant. I was about five. Four or five. >> I thought >> I thought >> I thought >> I didn't just have an accident. She >> I didn't just have an accident. She >> I didn't just have an accident. She didn't can't mean that. didn't can't mean that. didn't can't mean that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> She said, "Well, you're a mistake." >> She said, "Well, you're a mistake." >> She said, "Well, you're a mistake." >> Well, that confused me even more. >> Well, that confused me even more. >> Well, that confused me even more. [snorts] And when you're young, you hear [snorts] And when you're young, you hear [snorts] And when you're young, you hear that you you think, that you you think, that you you think, >> "Okay, but here I am." >> "Okay, but here I am." >> "Okay, but here I am." >> Yeah. Well, you know, they they had a >> Yeah. Well, you know, they they had a >> Yeah. Well, you know, they they had a dilemma because my dad was wild about dilemma because my dad was wild about dilemma because my dad was wild about Lucy and my mother just adored my Lucy and my mother just adored my Lucy and my mother just adored my brother. He was brother. He was brother. He was >> multiply gifted in so many ways.

>> multiply gifted in so many ways. >> multiply gifted in so many ways. >> Concert pianist. >> Concert pianist. >> Concert pianist. >> Could have been a concert pianist, >> Could have been a concert pianist, >> Could have been a concert pianist, >> man. He was playing >> man. He was playing >> man. He was playing >> the, you know, the heavy tunes, the the >> the, you know, the heavy tunes, the the >> the, you know, the heavy tunes, the the the real concert pieces. Yes. Before he the real concert pieces. Yes. Before he the real concert pieces. Yes. Before he was 15. was 15. was 15. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And a scientific mind and all >> Yeah. And a scientific mind and all >> Yeah. And a scientific mind and all that. And here I was interested in that. And here I was interested in that. And here I was interested in football, interested in sports, football, interested in sports, football, interested in sports, interested in in girls, interested in uh interested in in girls, interested in uh interested in in girls, interested in uh other things going on around me, but uh other things going on around me, but uh other things going on around me, but uh none of that was interesting to my none of that was interesting to my none of that was interesting to my parents. They focused on that. And it parents. They focused on that. And it parents. They focused on that. And it wasn't hidden. wasn't hidden. wasn't hidden. It was overt. It was overt. It was overt. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Was that true in your family? >> Was that true in your family? >> Was that true in your family? >> Well, my mom was just too preoccupied to >> Well, my mom was just too preoccupied to >> Well, my mom was just too preoccupied to really pay a lot of attention to me. But really pay a lot of attention to me. But really pay a lot of attention to me. But I see. But you know, I think of the I see. But you know, I think of the I see. But you know, I think of the remember David, you know, Jesse. remember David, you know, Jesse. remember David, you know, Jesse. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Brought out all of his sons before the >> Brought out all of his sons before the >> Brought out all of his sons before the prophet Sam. prophet Sam. prophet Sam. >> Samuel said, "Don't you have any?" He >> Samuel said, "Don't you have any?" He >> Samuel said, "Don't you have any?" He said, "Oh, you know, I I do have one said, "Oh, you know, I I do have one said, "Oh, you know, I I do have one more." more." more." >> How many of us would do that? >> How many of us would do that? >> How many of us would do that? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You'd have all your sons in there if >> You'd have all your sons in there if >> You'd have all your sons in there if Samuel's coming for visiting. Samuel's coming for visiting. Samuel's coming for visiting. >> But David later wrote, "When my mother >> But David later wrote, "When my mother >> But David later wrote, "When my mother and father forsake me, the Lord will and father forsake me, the Lord will and father forsake me, the Lord will take me up." He did. So I think that in take me up." He did. So I think that in take me up." He did. So I think that in both of our lives perhaps as hard as both of our lives perhaps as hard as both of our lives perhaps as hard as that was that played into what we became that was that played into what we became that was that played into what we became and what we ended up doing, and what we ended up doing, and what we ended up doing, >> you know, it it did uh honestly uh Greg >> you know, it it did uh honestly uh Greg >> you know, it it did uh honestly uh Greg uh it it never really crippled me.

uh it it never really crippled me. uh it it never really crippled me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Emotionally. >> Emotionally. >> Emotionally. I mean, of course, I missed the I mean, of course, I missed the I mean, of course, I missed the closeness that many have with their closeness that many have with their closeness that many have with their mother or with their dad, but mother or with their dad, but mother or with their dad, but [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] I I didn't uh curl up in a ball and, you I I didn't uh curl up in a ball and, you I I didn't uh curl up in a ball and, you know, cry myself to sleep. I was never know, cry myself to sleep. I was never know, cry myself to sleep. I was never abused or or shoved aside or mistreated. abused or or shoved aside or mistreated. abused or or shoved aside or mistreated. Uh but there was there was clearly Uh but there was there was clearly Uh but there was there was clearly favoritism that my brother never mowed favoritism that my brother never mowed favoritism that my brother never mowed the grass, never did what you know I my the grass, never did what you know I my the grass, never did what you know I my jobs were to throw out the trash, mop jobs were to throw out the trash, mop jobs were to throw out the trash, mop the floors, clean the bathrooms, the floors, clean the bathrooms, the floors, clean the bathrooms, especially the toilet and the basin and especially the toilet and the basin and especially the toilet and the basin and the tub and and uh he never did that. He the tub and and uh he never did that. He the tub and and uh he never did that. He he was busy practicing. he was busy practicing. he was busy practicing. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And man, could he play that piano. >> And man, could he play that piano. >> And man, could he play that piano. >> Yeah. my sister and I would do the >> Yeah. my sister and I would do the >> Yeah. my sister and I would do the dishes and she would say to me, "I knew dishes and she would say to me, "I knew dishes and she would say to me, "I knew I shouldn't have stopped taking piano I shouldn't have stopped taking piano I shouldn't have stopped taking piano lessons because he never had to do the lessons because he never had to do the lessons because he never had to do the do the dishes." Anyway, your story goes do the dishes." Anyway, your story goes do the dishes." Anyway, your story goes on. on. on. >> Well, yes. So, um I was attending >> Well, yes. So, um I was attending >> Well, yes. So, um I was attending Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa and there Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa and there Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa and there was a little Bible study up in was a little Bible study up in was a little Bible study up in Riverside. I was living in Orange Riverside. I was living in Orange Riverside. I was living in Orange County. That's about 45 minutes away, County. That's about 45 minutes away, County. That's about 45 minutes away, right?

right? right? >> And it was young people uh and they >> And it was young people uh and they >> And it was young people uh and they needed someone to come and take the needed someone to come and take the needed someone to come and take the study over. And I went up there and study over. And I went up there and study over. And I went up there and began to teach it. I was I'd been a began to teach it. I was I'd been a began to teach it. I was I'd been a Christian two years. Christian two years. Christian two years. >> You'd been listening to Chuck Smith? >> You'd been listening to Chuck Smith? >> You'd been listening to Chuck Smith? >> I've been listening Well, Chuck got me >> I've been listening Well, Chuck got me >> I've been listening Well, Chuck got me onto some good books, you know. He said, onto some good books, you know. He said, onto some good books, you know. He said, "Greg, you need to get a Strong's "Greg, you need to get a Strong's "Greg, you need to get a Strong's exhaustive concordance." exhaustive concordance." exhaustive concordance." >> Good for him. >> Good for him. >> Good for him. >> And and then I started building my >> And and then I started building my >> And and then I started building my library and at 18, I was reading library and at 18, I was reading library and at 18, I was reading Spurgeon, Martin Lloyd Jones, G. Spurgeon, Martin Lloyd Jones, G. Spurgeon, Martin Lloyd Jones, G. Campbell Morgan, Harry Ironside. Good Campbell Morgan, Harry Ironside. Good Campbell Morgan, Harry Ironside. Good for you, man. for you, man. for you, man. >> You know, so I got going with some >> You know, so I got going with some >> You know, so I got going with some really good books. And you know the really good books. And you know the really good books. And you know the other thing, Chuck, because I didn't other thing, Chuck, because I didn't other thing, Chuck, because I didn't have any godly adults uh growing up, I have any godly adults uh growing up, I have any godly adults uh growing up, I wanted to hang around older people more wanted to hang around older people more wanted to hang around older people more than people my own age than people my own age than people my own age >> because I wanted to learn. >> because I wanted to learn. >> because I wanted to learn. >> I found the same thing true. >> I found the same thing true. >> I found the same thing true. >> Yeah. And I really encourage younger >> Yeah. And I really encourage younger >> Yeah. And I really encourage younger preachers today, you know, to find older preachers today, you know, to find older preachers today, you know, to find older preachers and and older people in preachers and and older people in preachers and and older people in general who've walked with God and learn general who've walked with God and learn general who've walked with God and learn from them and listen to them. I had the from them and listen to them. I had the from them and listen to them. I had the privilege later in life of getting to privilege later in life of getting to privilege later in life of getting to know Billy Graham quite well.

know Billy Graham quite well. know Billy Graham quite well. >> Yes. And as he was ending his crusade >> Yes. And as he was ending his crusade >> Yes. And as he was ending his crusade ministry, I was starting mine. And he ministry, I was starting mine. And he ministry, I was starting mine. And he asked me to help him work on his sermons asked me to help him work on his sermons asked me to help him work on his sermons and freshen his illustrations up. So I and freshen his illustrations up. So I and freshen his illustrations up. So I got to spend a lot of time being with got to spend a lot of time being with got to spend a lot of time being with Billy. Billy. Billy. >> Isn't that great? >> Isn't that great? >> Isn't that great? >> In his home and on the road. I can tell >> In his home and on the road. I can tell >> In his home and on the road. I can tell you personally, he was everything you you personally, he was everything you you personally, he was everything you hoped he would be. He was down to earth, hoped he would be. He was down to earth, hoped he would be. He was down to earth, humble, godly. humble, godly. humble, godly. >> Honestly, one of the most humble men >> Honestly, one of the most humble men >> Honestly, one of the most humble men I've ever met. I've ever met. I've ever met. >> Yeah. Yeah. He really was. >> Yeah. Yeah. He really was. >> Yeah. Yeah. He really was. >> People don't believe that, but it's the >> People don't believe that, but it's the >> People don't believe that, but it's the truth. truth. truth. >> Yeah. genuinely humble. >> Yeah. genuinely humble. >> Yeah. genuinely humble. >> He really was. >> He really was. >> He really was. >> That's wonderful. I didn't realize you >> That's wonderful. I didn't realize you >> That's wonderful. I didn't realize you were that close. were that close. were that close. >> Well, and so I but I was constantly >> Well, and so I but I was constantly >> Well, and so I but I was constantly asking him questions. I thought I've asking him questions. I thought I've asking him questions. I thought I've been enrolled in the finest evangelistic been enrolled in the finest evangelistic been enrolled in the finest evangelistic university on earth with access to the university on earth with access to the university on earth with access to the greatest evangelist, I think, of all greatest evangelist, I think, of all greatest evangelist, I think, of all time, apart from the apostles, Billy time, apart from the apostles, Billy time, apart from the apostles, Billy Graham. Graham. Graham. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> So, I took full advantage of it. >> So, I took full advantage of it. >> So, I took full advantage of it. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> And uh and I wrote a book about it even >> And uh and I wrote a book about it even >> And uh and I wrote a book about it even called Billy Graham, The Men I Knew. But called Billy Graham, The Men I Knew. But called Billy Graham, The Men I Knew. But he was he was uh he didn't like to talk he was he was uh he didn't like to talk he was he was uh he didn't like to talk about himself though.

about himself though. about himself though. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I know the I know the feeling. Yeah. >> I know the I know the feeling. Yeah. >> I know the I know the feeling. Yeah. >> You you'd ask him something and he'd >> You you'd ask him something and he'd >> You you'd ask him something and he'd say, "Well, tell me about yourself." And say, "Well, tell me about yourself." And say, "Well, tell me about yourself." And he had always changed the subject, you he had always changed the subject, you he had always changed the subject, you know, and I think that was one of his know, and I think that was one of his know, and I think that was one of his secrets is it was a genuine humility secrets is it was a genuine humility secrets is it was a genuine humility that he had. But I So I learned from that he had. But I So I learned from that he had. But I So I learned from godly older men and women because I was godly older men and women because I was godly older men and women because I was also looking for some parent also looking for some parent also looking for some parent >> figures like a a father figure, a mother >> figures like a a father figure, a mother >> figures like a a father figure, a mother figure, but someone who was godly. So figure, but someone who was godly. So figure, but someone who was godly. So you went to the church. Yes. And you you went to the church. Yes. And you you went to the church. Yes. And you became the teacher. became the teacher. became the teacher. >> Well, I didn't know it was going to be a >> Well, I didn't know it was going to be a >> Well, I didn't know it was going to be a church. Yeah. I was teaching church. Yeah. I was teaching church. Yeah. I was teaching >> and then it began to grow and they >> and then it began to grow and they >> and then it began to grow and they started calling me pastor. Well, I started calling me pastor. Well, I started calling me pastor. Well, I hardly felt qualified to be a pastor at hardly felt qualified to be a pastor at hardly felt qualified to be a pastor at the age of 20. I hadn't gone to Bible the age of 20. I hadn't gone to Bible the age of 20. I hadn't gone to Bible school or any kind of school seminary. school or any kind of school seminary. school or any kind of school seminary. >> And but I was studying every day. And I >> And but I was studying every day. And I >> And but I was studying every day. And I was and I have to say and sometimes I was and I have to say and sometimes I was and I have to say and sometimes I was I was things I knew that I believed was I was things I knew that I believed was I was things I knew that I believed but I was working them out theologically but I was working them out theologically but I was working them out theologically and teaching them that evening and teaching them that evening and teaching them that evening sometimes. Yeah. sometimes. Yeah. sometimes. Yeah. >> And so it it was on the job training but >> And so it it was on the job training but >> And so it it was on the job training but it this be and I was looking for someone it this be and I was looking for someone it this be and I was looking for someone to take it over and I couldn't find to take it over and I couldn't find to take it over and I couldn't find anyone to take it over. I was looking anyone to take it over. I was looking anyone to take it over. I was looking for someone older, more mature. No one for someone older, more mature. No one for someone older, more mature. No one had the time or the interest and I had had the time or the interest and I had had the time or the interest and I had this little flock of about a hundred this little flock of about a hundred this little flock of about a hundred people at that point. Then it became two people at that point. Then it became two people at that point. Then it became two and 300 people and I thought and 300 people and I thought and 300 people and I thought >> that's pretty good size man.

>> that's pretty good size man. >> that's pretty good size man. >> Yeah. So I thought well if I'm going to >> Yeah. So I thought well if I'm going to >> Yeah. So I thought well if I'm going to be their pastor I better start be their pastor I better start be their pastor I better start preparing. So I you know I did the best preparing. So I you know I did the best preparing. So I you know I did the best I could studying as much as I could I could studying as much as I could I could studying as much as I could learning from people like you and others learning from people like you and others learning from people like you and others and and you know and here we are to the and and you know and here we are to the and and you know and here we are to the present day. [laughter] present day. [laughter] present day. [laughter] >> Isn't it remarkable? His hand was on you >> Isn't it remarkable? His hand was on you >> Isn't it remarkable? His hand was on you all along. all along. all along. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And you didn't realize it. and you come >> And you didn't realize it. and you come >> And you didn't realize it. and you come from that background, the last thing in from that background, the last thing in from that background, the last thing in your mind is you're going to become a your mind is you're going to become a your mind is you're going to become a leader of other people. leader of other people. leader of other people. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You're doing your best to figure out how >> You're doing your best to figure out how >> You're doing your best to figure out how you're going to be led and how you're you're going to be led and how you're you're going to be led and how you're going to live your life. going to live your life. going to live your life. >> Yes. Well, I wonder I started out, >> Yes. Well, I wonder I started out, >> Yes. Well, I wonder I started out, Chuck, I wanted to be a graphic artist Chuck, I wanted to be a graphic artist Chuck, I wanted to be a graphic artist and specifically a cartoonist. and specifically a cartoonist. and specifically a cartoonist. >> Oh, did you really? >> Oh, did you really? >> Oh, did you really? >> So, one of the ways I coped with the >> So, one of the ways I coped with the >> So, one of the ways I coped with the crazy life I was living is I would draw crazy life I was living is I would draw crazy life I was living is I would draw cartoons and I created my own little cartoons and I created my own little cartoons and I created my own little world of characters and that's what I world of characters and that's what I world of characters and that's what I aspired to be. I used to correspond with aspired to be. I used to correspond with aspired to be. I used to correspond with Charles M. Schultz, you know, the Charles M. Schultz, you know, the Charles M. Schultz, you know, the creator of Peanuts. creator of Peanuts. creator of Peanuts. >> He would very graciously write me >> He would very graciously write me >> He would very graciously write me letters and encourage me. And when you letters and encourage me. And when you letters and encourage me. And when you really really really >> And one time I wrote him, I said, "Can I >> And one time I wrote him, I said, "Can I >> And one time I wrote him, I said, "Can I have a one of your comic strips signed?"

have a one of your comic strips signed?" have a one of your comic strips signed?" I was so bold. I don't know why I was. I was so bold. I don't know why I was. I was so bold. I don't know why I was. And he sent it to me and I lost it. Oh, And he sent it to me and I lost it. Oh, And he sent it to me and I lost it. Oh, no. And I was in some no. And I was in some no. And I was in some >> I thought you were going to say you have >> I thought you were going to say you have >> I thought you were going to say you have it framed in the living room. I have a it framed in the living room. I have a it framed in the living room. I have a letter he wrote me framed still, but I letter he wrote me framed still, but I letter he wrote me framed still, but I lost the cartoon strip which would now lost the cartoon strip which would now lost the cartoon strip which would now be worth thousands and thousands of be worth thousands and thousands of be worth thousands and thousands of dollars, but not to mention the dollars, but not to mention the dollars, but not to mention the sentimental value. sentimental value. sentimental value. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> But but you know, I when I became a >> But but you know, I when I became a >> But but you know, I when I became a Christian, one of the first things I did Christian, one of the first things I did Christian, one of the first things I did was I drew a little comic book called was I drew a little comic book called was I drew a little comic book called Living Water, and it was an evangelistic Living Water, and it was an evangelistic Living Water, and it was an evangelistic track. And that was sort of my first track. And that was sort of my first track. And that was sort of my first taste of ministry where I was starting taste of ministry where I was starting taste of ministry where I was starting to develop not just as a pastor, but to develop not just as a pastor, but to develop not just as a pastor, but also as an evangelist. And you're also as an evangelist. And you're also as an evangelist. And you're writing now. writing now. writing now. >> You're beginning to write. >> You're beginning to write. >> You're beginning to write. >> Yeah. Yeah. Not like you though. >> Yeah. Yeah. Not like you though. >> Yeah. Yeah. Not like you though. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Pardon me. >> Pardon me. >> Pardon me. >> And not like you because don't you you I >> And not like you because don't you you I >> And not like you because don't you you I heard you say once that you would write heard you say once that you would write heard you say once that you would write your sermons out, you didn't type them. your sermons out, you didn't type them. your sermons out, you didn't type them. You wrote them out. Is that correct? You wrote them out. Is that correct? You wrote them out. Is that correct? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Did you ever become a typist? >> Did you ever become a typist? >> Did you ever become a typist? >> Uh, no. I I didn't type anything. I I >> Uh, no. I I didn't type anything. I I >> Uh, no. I I didn't type anything. I I wrote them out.

wrote them out. wrote them out. >> Well, it's a great way to remember. >> Well, it's a great way to remember. >> Well, it's a great way to remember. Well, uh, thoughts disentangle Well, uh, thoughts disentangle Well, uh, thoughts disentangle themselves over the lips and through the themselves over the lips and through the themselves over the lips and through the fingertips. fingertips. fingertips. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> I learned that years ago. And and they >> I learned that years ago. And and they >> I learned that years ago. And and they they really do. And I I found if I could they really do. And I I found if I could they really do. And I I found if I could push those words through my fingers, push those words through my fingers, push those words through my fingers, >> I could make it happen. So, I got a knot >> I could make it happen. So, I got a knot >> I could make it happen. So, I got a knot on this finger. I'm left-handed. And on on this finger. I'm left-handed. And on on this finger. I'm left-handed. And on my fourth uh finger, I have a knot. And my fourth uh finger, I have a knot. And my fourth uh finger, I have a knot. And my publisher would always say, "Let me my publisher would always say, "Let me my publisher would always say, "Let me see that knot. Let me make sure it's see that knot. Let me make sure it's see that knot. Let me make sure it's nice and big." nice and big." nice and big." >> He would always talk to me about that. >> He would always talk to me about that. >> He would always talk to me about that. Yeah. Well, I think you have an Yeah. Well, I think you have an Yeah. Well, I think you have an extraordinary ability given to you by extraordinary ability given to you by extraordinary ability given to you by God, Chuck. And I'm sure it's all a part God, Chuck. And I'm sure it's all a part God, Chuck. And I'm sure it's all a part of how you were raised from your of how you were raised from your of how you were raised from your childhood to being in the Marine Corps childhood to being in the Marine Corps childhood to being in the Marine Corps >> to, you know, your your harder days as >> to, you know, your your harder days as >> to, you know, your your harder days as you started out ministry. But you started out ministry. But you started out ministry. But [clears throat] you take that which is [clears throat] you take that which is [clears throat] you take that which is complex and make it understandable to complex and make it understandable to complex and make it understandable to people. people. people. >> Yes, I love to do that. >> Yes, I love to do that. >> Yes, I love to do that. >> Yes, >> Yes, >> Yes, >> I love to do that. I love to take the >> I love to do that. I love to take the >> I love to do that. I love to take the difficult and complicated and make it so difficult and complicated and make it so difficult and complicated and make it so simple. People can say, "Oh, I I get it.

simple. People can say, "Oh, I I get it. simple. People can say, "Oh, I I get it. I I get it." I I get it." I I get it." >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And they they can't believe it's in the >> And they they can't believe it's in the >> And they they can't believe it's in the Bible when they realize how they can Bible when they realize how they can Bible when they realize how they can grasp this. I think there's a grasp this. I think there's a grasp this. I think there's a >> one of the one of the secrets of >> one of the one of the secrets of >> one of the one of the secrets of speaking publicly [clears throat] is is speaking publicly [clears throat] is is speaking publicly [clears throat] is is simplifying. simplifying. simplifying. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And you gave a good quote earlier. Share >> And you gave a good quote earlier. Share >> And you gave a good quote earlier. Share that with our that with our that with our >> right >> right >> right >> viewers today. Well, you were telling >> viewers today. Well, you were telling >> viewers today. Well, you were telling the story of when you went to a Billy the story of when you went to a Billy the story of when you went to a Billy Graham crusade and after he finished his Graham crusade and after he finished his Graham crusade and after he finished his message, you turned to Cynthia and said, message, you turned to Cynthia and said, message, you turned to Cynthia and said, "That was so simple." And Cynthia said, "That was so simple." And Cynthia said, "That was so simple." And Cynthia said, "Honey, he knows what he's doing." "Honey, he knows what he's doing." "Honey, he knows what he's doing." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you were sort of uh kind of a little >> And you were sort of uh kind of a little >> And you were sort of uh kind of a little perplexed by how perplexed by how perplexed by how >> we were at the angel stadium and and >> we were at the angel stadium and and >> we were at the angel stadium and and they were people sitting all around me they were people sitting all around me they were people sitting all around me and I thought, "Nobody's going to go and I thought, "Nobody's going to go and I thought, "Nobody's going to go forward at was I wrong or what?" So I forward at was I wrong or what?" So I forward at was I wrong or what?" So I mentioned to you that I saw um a mentioned to you that I saw um a mentioned to you that I saw um a interview that Billy Graham did with interview that Billy Graham did with interview that Billy Graham did with David Frost, a British interviewer and David Frost, a British interviewer and David Frost, a British interviewer and Billy said to David Frost, "I studied to Billy said to David Frost, "I studied to Billy said to David Frost, "I studied to be simple." be simple." be simple." >> And and I think it's interesting because >> And and I think it's interesting because >> And and I think it's interesting because you know if you listen to the younger you know if you listen to the younger you know if you listen to the younger Billy Graham Yeah. He spoke rapidly. Uh Billy Graham Yeah. He spoke rapidly. Uh Billy Graham Yeah. He spoke rapidly. Uh and some of his earlier messages almost and some of his earlier messages almost and some of his earlier messages almost were like Bible studies.

were like Bible studies. were like Bible studies. >> Yeah. But as later in life, especially >> Yeah. But as later in life, especially >> Yeah. But as later in life, especially when he entered his final years, it got when he entered his final years, it got when he entered his final years, it got simpler and simpler. simpler and simpler. simpler and simpler. >> It did. >> It did. >> It did. >> I saw him in New York at his final >> I saw him in New York at his final >> I saw him in New York at his final sermon. sermon. sermon. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And he just turned to the crowd and he >> And he just turned to the crowd and he >> And he just turned to the crowd and he said, "God loves you." Then he turned to said, "God loves you." Then he turned to said, "God loves you." Then he turned to another section, "God loves you." And he another section, "God loves you." And he another section, "God loves you." And he turned to the others, "God loves you." turned to the others, "God loves you." turned to the others, "God loves you." Now, he didn't have the full capacity he Now, he didn't have the full capacity he Now, he didn't have the full capacity he had when he was younger, but even a had when he was younger, but even a had when he was younger, but even a diminished Billy was better than most diminished Billy was better than most diminished Billy was better than most preachers. Oh, yeah. preachers. Oh, yeah. preachers. Oh, yeah. >> Because he had lived this godly life. >> Because he had lived this godly life. >> Because he had lived this godly life. Sure. Sure. Sure. >> And he was almost like a prophet of God >> And he was almost like a prophet of God >> And he was almost like a prophet of God just giving this simplified message. just giving this simplified message. just giving this simplified message. >> Remarkable. Well, you obviously have >> Remarkable. Well, you obviously have >> Remarkable. Well, you obviously have developed the same thing. developed the same thing. developed the same thing. >> I try. And now you're in this gathering >> I try. And now you're in this gathering >> I try. And now you're in this gathering and at some t point along the way you and at some t point along the way you and at some t point along the way you emerged into a church. emerged into a church. emerged into a church. >> Yes. It it continued to grow and one day >> Yes. It it continued to grow and one day >> Yes. It it continued to grow and one day in the 80s I got a call from some in the 80s I got a call from some in the 80s I got a call from some publication and they said well as a publication and they said well as a publication and they said well as a pastor of a mega church and I'd never pastor of a mega church and I'd never pastor of a mega church and I'd never even heard that term before.

even heard that term before. even heard that term before. >> Yeah. I hadn't either. I I didn't know >> Yeah. I hadn't either. I I didn't know >> Yeah. I hadn't either. I I didn't know what that meant when I first heard that. what that meant when I first heard that. what that meant when I first heard that. So suddenly you find yourself pastoring So suddenly you find yourself pastoring So suddenly you find yourself pastoring a large congregation of thousands of a large congregation of thousands of a large congregation of thousands of people. It's not something I aspired to people. It's not something I aspired to people. It's not something I aspired to do. Frankly, I felt that God was calling do. Frankly, I felt that God was calling do. Frankly, I felt that God was calling me to be an evangelist for the first me to be an evangelist for the first me to be an evangelist for the first years of my ministry. But then I it years of my ministry. But then I it years of my ministry. But then I it dawned on me that God had called me to dawned on me that God had called me to dawned on me that God had called me to do both. I was called to be a pastor and do both. I was called to be a pastor and do both. I was called to be a pastor and an evangelist. But I'll say this, an evangelist. But I'll say this, an evangelist. But I'll say this, >> I love to do crusades. Uh we still do >> I love to do crusades. Uh we still do >> I love to do crusades. Uh we still do them today. I love to speak, give them today. I love to speak, give them today. I love to speak, give evangelistic messages, and they're quite evangelistic messages, and they're quite evangelistic messages, and they're quite different in their structure and different in their structure and different in their structure and delivery than a teaching, but my delivery than a teaching, but my delivery than a teaching, but my favorite thing to do is to be at home favorite thing to do is to be at home favorite thing to do is to be at home with our church and just teach them the with our church and just teach them the with our church and just teach them the word of God. That's my sweet spot, my word of God. That's my sweet spot, my word of God. That's my sweet spot, my happy place in the pulpit. happy place in the pulpit. happy place in the pulpit. >> You know, you've done your work. >> You know, you've done your work. >> You know, you've done your work. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> And and you know, and and you've and >> And and you know, and and you've and >> And and you know, and and you've and you're delivering that message. you're delivering that message. you're delivering that message. >> Open that book up and you watch those >> Open that book up and you watch those >> Open that book up and you watch those faces light up. There's nothing like faces light up. There's nothing like faces light up. There's nothing like that.

that. that. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Oh, that's great. That's great. Now, >> Oh, that's great. That's great. Now, >> Oh, that's great. That's great. Now, you've you've you've lived over these you've you've you've lived over these you've you've you've lived over these years. years. years. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you've watched changes take place. >> And you've watched changes take place. >> And you've watched changes take place. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Talk about that if you will. Um >> Talk about that if you will. Um >> Talk about that if you will. Um how have things changed how have things changed how have things changed in the realm of evangelism? Yeah. Is in the realm of evangelism? Yeah. Is in the realm of evangelism? Yeah. Is your approach pretty much the same or your approach pretty much the same or your approach pretty much the same or have you altered it to fit have you altered it to fit have you altered it to fit >> this particular era in which we live? >> this particular era in which we live? >> this particular era in which we live? And how is that different from the way And how is that different from the way And how is that different from the way it once was? First got underway. it once was? First got underway. it once was? First got underway. >> Very excellent question. I think that um >> Very excellent question. I think that um >> Very excellent question. I think that um >> the essentials don't change. It's, you >> the essentials don't change. It's, you >> the essentials don't change. It's, you know, I once asked Billy Graham, Billy, know, I once asked Billy Graham, Billy, know, I once asked Billy Graham, Billy, if an older Billy could speak to a if an older Billy could speak to a if an older Billy could speak to a younger Billy, yes. What advice would younger Billy, yes. What advice would younger Billy, yes. What advice would you give yourself? And I'd like to ask you give yourself? And I'd like to ask you give yourself? And I'd like to ask you that question after. But um and he you that question after. But um and he you that question after. But um and he said, "I would tell self to preach more said, "I would tell self to preach more said, "I would tell self to preach more on the blood and the cross because on the blood and the cross because on the blood and the cross because that's what the power is." that's what the power is." that's what the power is." >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> So I think you always need to remember >> So I think you always need to remember >> So I think you always need to remember that as Spurgeon would say as an that as Spurgeon would say as an that as Spurgeon would say as an evangelist, you make a beline to the evangelist, you make a beline to the evangelist, you make a beline to the cross. The power is in the cross. Yeah.

cross. The power is in the cross. Yeah. cross. The power is in the cross. Yeah. >> In his death, his resurrection, the need >> In his death, his resurrection, the need >> In his death, his resurrection, the need for the person to repent of their sin, for the person to repent of their sin, for the person to repent of their sin, put their faith in Christ. But put their faith in Christ. But put their faith in Christ. But everything has changed. so dramatically everything has changed. so dramatically everything has changed. so dramatically not only in the LA I've been preaching not only in the LA I've been preaching not only in the LA I've been preaching for over 50 years now and it's changed a for over 50 years now and it's changed a for over 50 years now and it's changed a lot over the years but I would say even lot over the years but I would say even lot over the years but I would say even in the last 10 years it's changed in the last 10 years it's changed in the last 10 years it's changed dramatically like when I started doing dramatically like when I started doing dramatically like when I started doing evangelistic crusades you know the evangelistic crusades you know the evangelistic crusades you know the internet was just coming into place internet was just coming into place internet was just coming into place there were no cell phones yet uh and but there were no cell phones yet uh and but there were no cell phones yet uh and but today with the cell phone you know and today with the cell phone you know and today with the cell phone you know and with the young generation and the impact with the young generation and the impact with the young generation and the impact it's had on them. It's it's a very it's had on them. It's it's a very it's had on them. It's it's a very different time. Their attention span is different time. Their attention span is different time. Their attention span is very limited. very limited. very limited. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Uh I find that they're almost completely >> Uh I find that they're almost completely >> Uh I find that they're almost completely biblically illiterate. There was a time biblically illiterate. There was a time biblically illiterate. There was a time when you could say Noah's arc or Adam when you could say Noah's arc or Adam when you could say Noah's arc or Adam and Eve in the garden uh references from and Eve in the garden uh references from and Eve in the garden uh references from scripture. This young generation don't scripture. This young generation don't scripture. This young generation don't even know what you're talking about. even know what you're talking about. even know what you're talking about. >> It's a blank. >> It's a blank. >> It's a blank. >> So I find I have to define everything as >> So I find I have to define everything as >> So I find I have to define everything as I go. I don't assume. If I say you need I go. I don't assume. If I say you need I go. I don't assume. If I say you need to accept Jesus Christ into your life, I to accept Jesus Christ into your life, I to accept Jesus Christ into your life, I don't assume they even know what that don't assume they even know what that don't assume they even know what that means. And I find that I have to break means. And I find that I have to break means. And I find that I have to break that down and explain what I mean by that down and explain what I mean by that down and explain what I mean by each of those terms, even accept Christ each of those terms, even accept Christ each of those terms, even accept Christ into your life or, you know, so I find into your life or, you know, so I find into your life or, you know, so I find it's like Paul and Mars Hill. He took it's like Paul and Mars Hill. He took it's like Paul and Mars Hill. He took time to assess the culture.

time to assess the culture. time to assess the culture. >> He took time to study the philosophies >> He took time to study the philosophies >> He took time to study the philosophies that were popular. And then he used the that were popular. And then he used the that were popular. And then he used the story of the unknown god they erected story of the unknown god they erected story of the unknown god they erected for the one god they may have missed for the one god they may have missed for the one god they may have missed among the thousands that they worshiped among the thousands that they worshiped among the thousands that they worshiped and he said today I want to talk to you and he said today I want to talk to you and he said today I want to talk to you about the unknown god about the unknown god about the unknown god >> but he built a bridge to his audience >> but he built a bridge to his audience >> but he built a bridge to his audience but then you know he brings them the but then you know he brings them the but then you know he brings them the message of the gospel. So I find that message of the gospel. So I find that message of the gospel. So I find that I'm I'm constantly adapting I'm I'm constantly adapting I'm I'm constantly adapting >> and I use cultural references to to >> and I use cultural references to to >> and I use cultural references to to start but it always comes down to the start but it always comes down to the start but it always comes down to the power of the scripture. When were you power of the scripture. When were you power of the scripture. When were you led when were you led to uh move it into led when were you led to uh move it into led when were you led to uh move it into a a true crusade where it became harvest a a true crusade where it became harvest a a true crusade where it became harvest crusade which is known all over the crusade which is known all over the crusade which is known all over the country now? country now? country now? >> Well, it I was I always gave invitations >> Well, it I was I always gave invitations >> Well, it I was I always gave invitations for people to come to Christ like you do for people to come to Christ like you do for people to come to Christ like you do Chuck and your messages. Chuck and your messages. Chuck and your messages. >> Yes. and uh and we would do little >> Yes. and uh and we would do little >> Yes. and uh and we would do little outreach events here and there, but uh outreach events here and there, but uh outreach events here and there, but uh Pastor Chuck Smith in around 1989 asked Pastor Chuck Smith in around 1989 asked Pastor Chuck Smith in around 1989 asked me to come down and speak at his church me to come down and speak at his church me to come down and speak at his church and do sort of an outreach Bible study and do sort of an outreach Bible study and do sort of an outreach Bible study for youth, which he did on Monday for youth, which he did on Monday for youth, which he did on Monday nights. And it began to grow. It got nights. And it began to grow. It got nights. And it began to grow. It got really large. We were overflowing. And really large. We were overflowing. And really large. We were overflowing. And it was Chuck's idea to go to a larger it was Chuck's idea to go to a larger it was Chuck's idea to go to a larger venue. And he said, "Let's go to a venue. And he said, "Let's go to a venue. And he said, "Let's go to a bigger venue and do a crusade, like a bigger venue and do a crusade, like a bigger venue and do a crusade, like a Billy Graham crusade." And I said, Billy Graham crusade." And I said, Billy Graham crusade." And I said, 'Okay, well that'd be great, Chuck. We, 'Okay, well that'd be great, Chuck. We, 'Okay, well that'd be great, Chuck. We, you know, I could speak and some of the you know, I could speak and some of the you know, I could speak and some of the other guys could speak. He said, 'N no, other guys could speak. He said, 'N no, other guys could speak. He said, 'N no, I think you should just speak.

I think you should just speak. I think you should just speak. >> And then I said, 'Well, where do you >> And then I said, 'Well, where do you >> And then I said, 'Well, where do you want to go?' And he said, 'The Pacific want to go?' And he said, 'The Pacific want to go?' And he said, 'The Pacific Amphitheater, which seated around, I Amphitheater, which seated around, I Amphitheater, which seated around, I don't know, 18,000 people. I said, well, don't know, 18,000 people. I said, well, don't know, 18,000 people. I said, well, that's a pretty big place, [laughter] that's a pretty big place, [laughter] that's a pretty big place, [laughter] Chuck. And he said, well, we serve a Chuck. And he said, well, we serve a Chuck. And he said, well, we serve a pretty big God. And so, we took a step pretty big God. And so, we took a step pretty big God. And so, we took a step of faith and went there. We broke their of faith and went there. We broke their of faith and went there. We broke their attendance records in the first week. attendance records in the first week. attendance records in the first week. And then the next year, we went to Angel And then the next year, we went to Angel And then the next year, we went to Angel Stadium. and we've been there ever Stadium. and we've been there ever Stadium. and we've been there ever since. since. since. >> Yeah, that's where I've known it uh in >> Yeah, that's where I've known it uh in >> Yeah, that's where I've known it uh in Angel Stadium. And what a great great Angel Stadium. And what a great great Angel Stadium. And what a great great crowd you have. What what interest there crowd you have. What what interest there crowd you have. What what interest there is. is. is. >> Well, we you were with us when we did it >> Well, we you were with us when we did it >> Well, we you were with us when we did it here in Texas at AT&T Stadium here in Texas at AT&T Stadium here in Texas at AT&T Stadium >> and that was the largest crusade we've >> and that was the largest crusade we've >> and that was the largest crusade we've done with over a 100,000 people in done with over a 100,000 people in done with over a 100,000 people in attendance. attendance. attendance. >> It was a wonderful experience. >> It was a wonderful experience. >> It was a wonderful experience. >> It was great. So, >> It was great. So, >> It was great. So, >> you know, so yeah, that's it was his >> you know, so yeah, that's it was his >> you know, so yeah, that's it was his idea and you know, you've heard the idea and you know, you've heard the idea and you know, you've heard the expression, if you see a turtle on a expression, if you see a turtle on a expression, if you see a turtle on a fence post, you know, he didn't get fence post, you know, he didn't get fence post, you know, he didn't get there by himself. Right. there by himself. Right. there by himself. Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> So, I think I look at my life and I see >> So, I think I look at my life and I see >> So, I think I look at my life and I see these things that God has done. And I've these things that God has done. And I've these things that God has done. And I've I just realize I could have never done I just realize I could have never done I just realize I could have never done these things, but but I know that the these things, but but I know that the these things, but but I know that the Lord has opened the doors, not unlike Lord has opened the doors, not unlike Lord has opened the doors, not unlike you, because I've heard you say, "You you, because I've heard you say, "You you, because I've heard you say, "You never planned on having a radio never planned on having a radio never planned on having a radio ministry. You never planned on becoming ministry. You never planned on becoming ministry. You never planned on becoming >> a writing ministry.

>> a writing ministry. >> a writing ministry. >> A writing ministry or the chancellor of >> A writing ministry or the chancellor of >> A writing ministry or the chancellor of >> never >> never >> never >> DTS, right? >> DTS, right? >> DTS, right? >> Or starting a new church later in life, >> Or starting a new church later in life, >> Or starting a new church later in life, right? right? right? >> That was a very bold move, >> That was a very bold move, >> That was a very bold move, >> right? I was 59 when I went to Dallas >> right? I was 59 when I went to Dallas >> right? I was 59 when I went to Dallas Seminary. Seminary. Seminary. >> And then I started the church here. >> And then I started the church here. >> And then I started the church here. >> Um my I was uh well my goodness u I was >> Um my I was uh well my goodness u I was >> Um my I was uh well my goodness u I was getting up in years by then and they getting up in years by then and they getting up in years by then and they wanted me to come as president. I I wanted me to come as president. I I wanted me to come as president. I I couldn't say no fast enough. And Cynthia couldn't say no fast enough. And Cynthia couldn't say no fast enough. And Cynthia said to me, "Why'd you say no?" I said, said to me, "Why'd you say no?" I said, said to me, "Why'd you say no?" I said, "Because I'm I'm not presidential. I'm "Because I'm I'm not presidential. I'm "Because I'm I'm not presidential. I'm I'm not one of those, you know, I'm not one of those, you know, I'm not one of those, you know, wonderful, beautiful minds that, you wonderful, beautiful minds that, you wonderful, beautiful minds that, you know, walk around a seminary and they're know, walk around a seminary and they're know, walk around a seminary and they're they're" She said, "They know who you they're" She said, "They know who you they're" She said, "They know who you are. are. are. >> They they know what they're asking." And >> They they know what they're asking." And >> They they know what they're asking." And I said, "It's just I'm I'm just that's I said, "It's just I'm I'm just that's I said, "It's just I'm I'm just that's just not me." Well, they came again and just not me." Well, they came again and just not me." Well, they came again and I said, "No." And that came the third I said, "No." And that came the third I said, "No." And that came the third time. And long story short, I finally time. And long story short, I finally time. And long story short, I finally came to realize that God wants me to say came to realize that God wants me to say came to realize that God wants me to say yes.

yes. yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And he wanted me to go as a shepherd. >> And he wanted me to go as a shepherd. >> And he wanted me to go as a shepherd. >> I could do that. >> I could do that. >> I could do that. >> And I shepherded the students. I even >> And I shepherded the students. I even >> And I shepherded the students. I even shephered the faculty. Some of those men shephered the faculty. Some of those men shephered the faculty. Some of those men said to me they never had heard a grown said to me they never had heard a grown said to me they never had heard a grown man say to them, "I love you." man say to them, "I love you." man say to them, "I love you." >> In their lifetime. >> In their lifetime. >> In their lifetime. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I regularly told him that. And uh >> And I regularly told him that. And uh >> And I regularly told him that. And uh that isn't you have to be brilliant to that isn't you have to be brilliant to that isn't you have to be brilliant to do that, do that, do that, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> But you do have to be vulnerable. >> But you do have to be vulnerable. >> But you do have to be vulnerable. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And you have to be willing to say that >> And you have to be willing to say that >> And you have to be willing to say that to another man. I've Greg, I've had men to another man. I've Greg, I've had men to another man. I've Greg, I've had men just weep just weep just weep >> when they hear that. >> when they hear that. >> when they hear that. >> Yeah. And uh when I got ready to leave >> Yeah. And uh when I got ready to leave >> Yeah. And uh when I got ready to leave the seminary, several came into my the seminary, several came into my the seminary, several came into my office at different times and they just office at different times and they just office at different times and they just cried because they said, "We've never cried because they said, "We've never cried because they said, "We've never had someone had someone had someone who really loved us like this." who really loved us like this." who really loved us like this." Which tells you that's what really cuts Which tells you that's what really cuts Which tells you that's what really cuts through, isn't it, Greg?

through, isn't it, Greg? through, isn't it, Greg? >> That's what really reaches the heart. >> That's what really reaches the heart. >> That's what really reaches the heart. >> I >> I >> I >> Well, speaking of that, brings up Kathy. >> Well, speaking of that, brings up Kathy. >> Well, speaking of that, brings up Kathy. >> I was just going to ask you about >> I was just going to ask you about >> I was just going to ask you about Cynthia, but go ahead. So, you're you're Cynthia, but go ahead. So, you're you're Cynthia, but go ahead. So, you're you're rolling along teaching the Bible and the rolling along teaching the Bible and the rolling along teaching the Bible and the group is growing and and Chuck has got group is growing and and Chuck has got group is growing and and Chuck has got ideas for you and ideas for you and ideas for you and >> where does Kathy fit into all of this? >> where does Kathy fit into all of this? >> where does Kathy fit into all of this? >> Well, I was doing this little Bible >> Well, I was doing this little Bible >> Well, I was doing this little Bible study and there were these three girls study and there were these three girls study and there were these three girls that showed up. It was Kathy and her two that showed up. It was Kathy and her two that showed up. It was Kathy and her two sisters and I don't know why, but my she sisters and I don't know why, but my she sisters and I don't know why, but my she caught my eye. Kathy, and it's almost caught my eye. Kathy, and it's almost caught my eye. Kathy, and it's almost like a light was shining down on her. It like a light was shining down on her. It like a light was shining down on her. It was actually her sister holding a was actually her sister holding a was actually her sister holding a flashlight over her head. Not really. flashlight over her head. Not really. flashlight over her head. Not really. >> You are a preacher, but you're also a >> You are a preacher, but you're also a >> You are a preacher, but you're also a red-blooded American boy. red-blooded American boy. red-blooded American boy. >> Yeah. And I don't want people to think >> Yeah. And I don't want people to think >> Yeah. And I don't want people to think I'm just like checking out girls while I'm just like checking out girls while I'm just like checking out girls while I'm preaching. But I did notice Kathy. I'm preaching. But I did notice Kathy. I'm preaching. But I did notice Kathy. And afterwards I said to her, "Hey, um, And afterwards I said to her, "Hey, um, And afterwards I said to her, "Hey, um, would you like to go out and get some would you like to go out and get some would you like to go out and get some dessert after church?" And she said yes. dessert after church?" And she said yes. dessert after church?" And she said yes. And so we went, the three of us went out And so we went, the three of us went out And so we went, the three of us went out or the four of us or three sisters and or the four of us or three sisters and or the four of us or three sisters and me. Then the next time I spoke, I said me. Then the next time I spoke, I said me. Then the next time I spoke, I said the same thing. Want to go and get some the same thing. Want to go and get some the same thing. Want to go and get some dessert. And she got her sisters and we dessert. And she got her sisters and we dessert. And she got her sisters and we went out. Then the third time I said, went out. Then the third time I said, went out. Then the third time I said, "Well, let's go get some uh dessert "Well, let's go get some uh dessert "Well, let's go get some uh dessert after church." And she said, "I'll get after church." And she said, "I'll get after church." And she said, "I'll get my sisters." And I said, "I don't want my sisters." And I said, "I don't want my sisters." And I said, "I don't want your sisters. I just want to go with your sisters. I just want to go with your sisters. I just want to go with you." And uh so Chuck, we we we fell in you." And uh so Chuck, we we we fell in you." And uh so Chuck, we we we fell in love pretty quickly, but there could not love pretty quickly, but there could not love pretty quickly, but there could not be two more opposite people than Greg be two more opposite people than Greg be two more opposite people than Greg and Kathy.

and Kathy. and Kathy. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> Oh, I I we're just the exact opposite. >> Oh, I I we're just the exact opposite. >> Oh, I I we're just the exact opposite. I'm messy. She's very neat. I I'm I'm messy. She's very neat. I I'm I'm messy. She's very neat. I I'm usually very close to being on time. usually very close to being on time. usually very close to being on time. She's sometimes late. Uh she, you know, She's sometimes late. Uh she, you know, She's sometimes late. Uh she, you know, she's cute, I'm fat. What can I say? she's cute, I'm fat. What can I say? she's cute, I'm fat. What can I say? We're different. But but and we had We're different. But but and we had We're different. But but and we had three big breakups. Like I don't want to three big breakups. Like I don't want to three big breakups. Like I don't want to be see you ever again. And we'd break be see you ever again. And we'd break be see you ever again. And we'd break up. Then we up. Then we up. Then we >> then we would get back together and then >> then we would get back together and then >> then we would get back together and then we'd break up again. So we got it all we'd break up again. So we got it all we'd break up again. So we got it all out of our system. out of our system. out of our system. >> Got all the breakups out of the way. >> Got all the breakups out of the way. >> Got all the breakups out of the way. >> And then we got married and we have >> And then we got married and we have >> And then we got married and we have celebrated 52 years of marriage celebrated 52 years of marriage celebrated 52 years of marriage together. And together. And together. And >> congratulations. And so, you know, I >> congratulations. And so, you know, I >> congratulations. And so, you know, I couldn't have done what I do done and couldn't have done what I do done and couldn't have done what I do done and what I do without her. She's my number what I do without her. She's my number what I do without her. She's my number one counselor. Good. one counselor. Good. one counselor. Good. >> And she'll always tell me the truth. >> And she'll always tell me the truth. >> And she'll always tell me the truth. >> Good. >> Good. >> Good. >> And uh >> And uh >> And uh >> Yeah, we need wives for that reason. >> Yeah, we need wives for that reason. >> Yeah, we need wives for that reason. >> Sometimes a little too much. >> Sometimes a little too much. >> Sometimes a little too much. >> Oh, I know. But >> Oh, I know. But >> Oh, I know. But >> you got to have it. >> you got to have it. >> you got to have it. >> Yeah. And she's been with me through all >> Yeah. And she's been with me through all >> Yeah. And she's been with me through all of it. You know, we went of it. You know, we went of it. You know, we went >> the hardest thing we've gone through is >> the hardest thing we've gone through is >> the hardest thing we've gone through is is when our son died in an automobile is when our son died in an automobile is when our son died in an automobile accident accident accident >> 2008.

>> 2008. >> 2008. >> Yes, it was. Yeah. And it was >> Yes, it was. Yeah. And it was >> Yes, it was. Yeah. And it was >> I couldn't believe it when I heard it. >> I couldn't believe it when I heard it. >> I couldn't believe it when I heard it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Everything in my life at that moment >> Everything in my life at that moment >> Everything in my life at that moment stopped. I'm serious. stopped. I'm serious. stopped. I'm serious. >> We prayed for you as a family and >> We prayed for you as a family and >> We prayed for you as a family and Cynthia and I as a couple Cynthia and I as a couple Cynthia and I as a couple >> because we identified we have two boys >> because we identified we have two boys >> because we identified we have two boys and we have two girls. And so and we have two girls. And so and we have two girls. And so >> u I couldn't imagine losing one of them >> u I couldn't imagine losing one of them >> u I couldn't imagine losing one of them just like you couldn't. just like you couldn't. just like you couldn't. >> Uh if you don't mind >> Uh if you don't mind >> Uh if you don't mind >> right >> right >> right >> walk through that with us. Well, um, we >> walk through that with us. Well, um, we >> walk through that with us. Well, um, we have two sons, Christopher and Jonathan. have two sons, Christopher and Jonathan. have two sons, Christopher and Jonathan. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And Christopher, >> And Christopher, >> And Christopher, >> uh, was a little bit of a wild boy. He >> uh, was a little bit of a wild boy. He >> uh, was a little bit of a wild boy. He he was always a good boy, but he had a he was always a good boy, but he had a he was always a good boy, but he had a wild side. He went on a went for a time wild side. He went on a went for a time wild side. He went on a went for a time where he was a prodigal walking away where he was a prodigal walking away where he was a prodigal walking away from the Lord. Always was respectful and from the Lord. Always was respectful and from the Lord. Always was respectful and loving and a good son, but he was away loving and a good son, but he was away loving and a good son, but he was away from the Lord. He made a recommmitment from the Lord. He made a recommmitment from the Lord. He made a recommmitment to Christ and uh and was walking with to Christ and uh and was walking with to Christ and uh and was walking with the Lord and had gotten married and had the Lord and had gotten married and had the Lord and had gotten married and had a baby, our first granddaughter, Stella.

a baby, our first granddaughter, Stella. a baby, our first granddaughter, Stella. >> He he became a very talented designer. >> He he became a very talented designer. >> He he became a very talented designer. >> Um and he was the lead designer at our >> Um and he was the lead designer at our >> Um and he was the lead designer at our church in Riverside. He was on his way church in Riverside. He was on his way church in Riverside. He was on his way to church uh early in the morning about to church uh early in the morning about to church uh early in the morning about 9:01 9:01 9:01 and uh he he collided with a CALR and uh he he collided with a CALR and uh he he collided with a CALR vehicle and uh and we we found you know vehicle and uh and we we found you know vehicle and uh and we we found you know uh I was we my wife was having a Bible uh I was we my wife was having a Bible uh I was we my wife was having a Bible study with his wife Britney and some study with his wife Britney and some study with his wife Britney and some other ladies and uh Britney was texting other ladies and uh Britney was texting other ladies and uh Britney was texting Christopher like what are you doing or Christopher like what are you doing or Christopher like what are you doing or something he wasn't answering and I something he wasn't answering and I something he wasn't answering and I texted him and no answer. Then I was texted him and no answer. Then I was texted him and no answer. Then I was calling the church. I couldn't get an calling the church. I couldn't get an calling the church. I couldn't get an answer. I knew something was terribly answer. I knew something was terribly answer. I knew something was terribly wrong, but I didn't know what it was. wrong, but I didn't know what it was. wrong, but I didn't know what it was. And then people started showing up at my And then people started showing up at my And then people started showing up at my house and then finally some of our house and then finally some of our house and then finally some of our pastors told me that Christopher went to pastors told me that Christopher went to pastors told me that Christopher went to be with the Lord. And it was like, you be with the Lord. And it was like, you be with the Lord. And it was like, you know, I don't know how to describe it. know, I don't know how to describe it. know, I don't know how to describe it. It's like all the air left the room. It's like all the air left the room. It's like all the air left the room. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's like time stopped. I collapsed >> It's like time stopped. I collapsed >> It's like time stopped. I collapsed >> and and I didn't I just thought my world >> and and I didn't I just thought my world >> and and I didn't I just thought my world I, you know, I'm a Christian. I'm a I, you know, I'm a Christian. I'm a I, you know, I'm a Christian. I'm a pastor.

pastor. pastor. >> Yeah. But I thought my world just ended. >> Yeah. But I thought my world just ended. >> Yeah. But I thought my world just ended. My like how do you survive this? My like how do you survive this? My like how do you survive this? >> I have no idea. >> I have no idea. >> I have no idea. >> I felt if words could kill you, I could >> I felt if words could kill you, I could >> I felt if words could kill you, I could have died from hearing those words. And have died from hearing those words. And have died from hearing those words. And Kathy saw me and actually took my face Kathy saw me and actually took my face Kathy saw me and actually took my face in her hands and she said, "It's going in her hands and she said, "It's going in her hands and she said, "It's going to be okay." And she doesn't even to be okay." And she doesn't even to be okay." And she doesn't even remember saying this. And there's only remember saying this. And there's only remember saying this. And there's only one person who could have said that to one person who could have said that to one person who could have said that to me and it was her. And okay meaning not me and it was her. And okay meaning not me and it was her. And okay meaning not that this is good. that this is good. that this is good. >> No, I understand. >> No, I understand. >> No, I understand. >> But we will survive this. >> But we will survive this. >> But we will survive this. >> We will make it. will make it because I >> We will make it. will make it because I >> We will make it. will make it because I I I just like how do you survive this I I just like how do you survive this I I just like how do you survive this and yeah even though as a pastor I and yeah even though as a pastor I and yeah even though as a pastor I presided over many services sadly many presided over many services sadly many presided over many services sadly many for I know children who died I thought for I know children who died I thought for I know children who died I thought well I know a little bit about this well I know a little bit about this well I know a little bit about this >> it's quite different when it's your own >> it's quite different when it's your own >> it's quite different when it's your own >> it's completely different >> it's completely different >> it's completely different >> yeah did you take some time off >> yeah did you take some time off >> yeah did you take some time off >> I did take some time off um I >> I did take some time off um I >> I did take some time off um I >> but you know here's the interesting >> but you know here's the interesting >> but you know here's the interesting thing I I just fell on the floor and I thing I I just fell on the floor and I thing I I just fell on the floor and I prayed a job like prayer and I said Lord prayed a job like prayer and I said Lord prayed a job like prayer and I said Lord you gave him to us and I give him back you gave him to us and I give him back you gave him to us and I give him back to you and people have asked me when to you and people have asked me when to you and people have asked me when have you felt the presence of God more have you felt the presence of God more have you felt the presence of God more than any other time in your life and I than any other time in your life and I than any other time in your life and I would say that was the moment that God would say that was the moment that God would say that was the moment that God was with me.

was with me. was with me. >> You know his strength is made perfect in >> You know his strength is made perfect in >> You know his strength is made perfect in weakness. weakness. weakness. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and I was listening interestingly >> And and I was listening interestingly >> And and I was listening interestingly Chuck you kind of play a role in this in Chuck you kind of play a role in this in Chuck you kind of play a role in this in your teaching from a distance. your teaching from a distance. your teaching from a distance. >> I was listening to your teaching uh on >> I was listening to your teaching uh on >> I was listening to your teaching uh on the radio and you talked and I don't the radio and you talked and I don't the radio and you talked and I don't remember the exact uh quote. It might be remember the exact uh quote. It might be remember the exact uh quote. It might be a toer quote, but it's something before a toer quote, but it's something before a toer quote, but it's something before God can use him any to hurt him. Does God can use him any to hurt him. Does God can use him any to hurt him. Does this ring a bell? this ring a bell? this ring a bell? >> Yeah. Toer. It is doubtful God can use >> Yeah. Toer. It is doubtful God can use >> Yeah. Toer. It is doubtful God can use anyone greatly until he has hurt him anyone greatly until he has hurt him anyone greatly until he has hurt him deeply. deeply. deeply. >> Yes. That's a hard one. >> Yes. That's a hard one. >> Yes. That's a hard one. >> That's a tough one. >> That's a tough one. >> That's a tough one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I' I've had some people say, "I don't >> I' I've had some people say, "I don't >> I' I've had some people say, "I don't believe that." believe that." believe that." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That makes God cruel. >> That makes God cruel. >> That makes God cruel. >> Yes. U on the contrary when you have >> Yes. U on the contrary when you have >> Yes. U on the contrary when you have been hurt deeply been hurt deeply been hurt deeply you change great. you change great. you change great. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You deepen. >> You deepen. >> You deepen. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You deepen. >> You deepen. >> You deepen. You get quiet. You get quiet. You get quiet. You become more thoughtful, more thoughtful, >> more compassionate, >> more compassionate, >> more compassionate, more caring, more caring, more caring, more understanding.

more understanding. more understanding. >> Yes. That is the making That is the making of a good shepherd. >> Um there's a Scottish saying, some >> Um there's a Scottish saying, some things are better felt than felt. things are better felt than felt. things are better felt than felt. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> People can tell when you have a heart. >> People can tell when you have a heart. >> People can tell when you have a heart. You don't get a heart by taking a course You don't get a heart by taking a course You don't get a heart by taking a course on how to get a heart. You don't read a on how to get a heart. You don't read a on how to get a heart. You don't read a book on here's how to develop a heart. book on here's how to develop a heart. book on here's how to develop a heart. You go through You go through You go through the heartbreaks of life and out of that the heartbreaks of life and out of that the heartbreaks of life and out of that emerges emerges emerges an incredible an incredible an incredible world that never had been developed world that never had been developed world that never had been developed before. before. before. >> Yes. So that you have a capacity now >> Yes. So that you have a capacity now >> Yes. So that you have a capacity now that few have because you have lost that few have because you have lost that few have because you have lost someone someone someone so close to your own heart and you'll so close to your own heart and you'll so close to your own heart and you'll never forget it.

never forget it. never forget it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It prepares you to touch the lives of >> It prepares you to touch the lives of >> It prepares you to touch the lives of those who come with that empty those who come with that empty those who come with that empty dreadful dreadful dreadful expression. expression. expression. I feel lost. I feel like I can't go on. I feel lost. I feel like I can't go on. I feel lost. I feel like I can't go on. I feel like I've uh I've I've reached I feel like I've uh I've I've reached I feel like I've uh I've I've reached the end. And you can say the end. And you can say the end. And you can say you're you're you're going to make it. you're you're you're going to make it. you're you're you're going to make it. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Yeah. [snorts] >> And let me tell you how I know you. And >> And let me tell you how I know you. And >> And let me tell you how I know you. And you can tell them your story. you can tell them your story. you can tell them your story. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> I love another Toer quote and you'll >> I love another Toer quote and you'll >> I love another Toer quote and you'll love this. love this. love this. May not the inadequacy of much of our May not the inadequacy of much of our May not the inadequacy of much of our spiritual experience spiritual experience spiritual experience be traced back to our habit of skipping be traced back to our habit of skipping be traced back to our habit of skipping through the corridor of the kingdom like through the corridor of the kingdom like through the corridor of the kingdom like children in the marketplace, always children in the marketplace, always children in the marketplace, always chattering about everything, chattering about everything, chattering about everything, but pausing to learn the true value but pausing to learn the true value but pausing to learn the true value of nothing. of nothing. of nothing. >> Wow, I love that quote. Wow. You've >> Wow, I love that quote. Wow. You've >> Wow, I love that quote. Wow. You've learned the true value learned the true value learned the true value of life of life of life and the true meaning of death and the true meaning of death and the true meaning of death and grief and grief and grief and sorrow and sorrow and sorrow and bone deep pain.

and bone deep pain. and bone deep pain. There aren't words you can use to There aren't words you can use to There aren't words you can use to describe what you and Kathy endured. describe what you and Kathy endured. describe what you and Kathy endured. You may try, You may try, You may try, but only but only but only those who have lost one of their own those who have lost one of their own those who have lost one of their own will say that's exactly the way it was will say that's exactly the way it was will say that's exactly the way it was with me. with me. with me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Gives you a capacity, >> Gives you a capacity, >> Gives you a capacity, a depth. a depth. a depth. And that may explain, And that may explain, And that may explain, Greg, Greg, Greg, why even though you may not have had all why even though you may not have had all why even though you may not have had all the academic training you may have the academic training you may have the academic training you may have wished you would have had or you may not wished you would have had or you may not wished you would have had or you may not have had all the breaks that you would have had all the breaks that you would have had all the breaks that you would love to have had or those first 17, 18, love to have had or those first 17, 18, love to have had or those first 17, 18, 20 years of your life, you know, at the 20 years of your life, you know, at the 20 years of your life, you know, at the at the knee of some godly individ you you've had the Lord Jesus Christ you you've had the Lord Jesus Christ right there right there right there in the depth of your life at moments in the depth of your life at moments in the depth of your life at moments that defied that defied that defied explanation explanation explanation as he reached in as he reached in as he reached in and quietly developed you and quietly developed you and quietly developed you in ways you would not have been in ways you would not have been in ways you would not have been developed.

developed. developed. Job writes Job 23:10-12. Job writes Job 23:10-12. Job writes Job 23:10-12. Get this. But he knows the way that I Get this. But he knows the way that I Get this. But he knows the way that I take. take. take. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> When he has tried me, >> When he has tried me, >> When he has tried me, I will come forth as gold. Yeah. I will come forth as gold. Yeah. I will come forth as gold. Yeah. >> My foot has held his steps. His way have >> My foot has held his steps. His way have >> My foot has held his steps. His way have I kept and not declined. I kept and not declined. I kept and not declined. Neither have I turned back from the Neither have I turned back from the Neither have I turned back from the command of his lips. command of his lips. command of his lips. I've esteemed, I've esteemed, I've esteemed, prized, valued the words of his mouth prized, valued the words of his mouth prized, valued the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. Yes. That's more than my necessary food. Yes. That's more than my necessary food. Yes. That's why in deep grief, why in deep grief, why in deep grief, you lose your appetite. you lose your appetite. you lose your appetite. You're feeding on You're feeding on You're feeding on divine divine divine mana that comes to minister to you mana that comes to minister to you mana that comes to minister to you from the heavenlies from the heavenlies from the heavenlies provided for you by the Lord your God. provided for you by the Lord your God. provided for you by the Lord your God. I so respect you for going through it I so respect you for going through it I so respect you for going through it and and being able to talk about it and and being able to talk about it and and being able to talk about it >> and letting it change you.

>> and letting it change you. >> and letting it change you. >> I've seen people refer to it almost >> I've seen people refer to it almost >> I've seen people refer to it almost glibly. Uh, oh yeah, we lost two. No, glibly. Uh, oh yeah, we lost two. No, glibly. Uh, oh yeah, we lost two. No, no, no, no. Don't don't say it like no, no, no. Don't don't say it like no, no, no. Don't don't say it like that. that. that. >> Joe Bailey lost three boys. >> Joe Bailey lost three boys. >> Joe Bailey lost three boys. Three boys. Three boys. Three boys. One is a baby One is a baby One is a baby uh one older and the other uh in a uh one older and the other uh in a uh one older and the other uh in a sledding accident of all things. sledding accident of all things. sledding accident of all things. >> My goodness. >> My goodness. >> My goodness. >> And Joe said he wrote a book called A >> And Joe said he wrote a book called A >> And Joe said he wrote a book called A View from the Hearse. View from the Hearse. View from the Hearse. >> I read I read that book. >> I read I read that book. >> I read I read that book. >> Love the book. Joe's gone now, but I his >> Love the book. Joe's gone now, but I his >> Love the book. Joe's gone now, but I his son was one of our interns at Fullerton. son was one of our interns at Fullerton. son was one of our interns at Fullerton. And and and Joe said some came and and And and and Joe said some came and and And and and Joe said some came and and and they talked and talked and talked and they talked and talked and talked and they talked and talked and talked and talked the whole time. I couldn't and talked the whole time. I couldn't and talked the whole time. I couldn't wait for them to leave. wait for them to leave. wait for them to leave. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You experienced that? >> You experienced that? >> You experienced that? >> Yes, they did. And some came >> Yes, they did. And some came >> Yes, they did. And some came and sat by us, and sat by us, and sat by us, said very little if anything, said very little if anything, said very little if anything, loved us, loved us, loved us, and I never wanted them to go away.

and I never wanted them to go away. and I never wanted them to go away. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Isn't that great? >> Isn't that great? >> Isn't that great? I love that statement. I love that statement. I love that statement. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I love it. >> I love it. >> I love it. When will we learn say less so that you When will we learn say less so that you When will we learn say less so that you can minister more? can minister more? can minister more? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. When you get alongside people and and When you get alongside people and and When you get alongside people and and you put your arm around them and you you put your arm around them and you you put your arm around them and you tell them you understand, tell them you understand, tell them you understand, you're helping them see a side of Christ you're helping them see a side of Christ you're helping them see a side of Christ they have not seen before. they have not seen before. they have not seen before. >> And you're not saying much at all. >> And you're not saying much at all. >> And you're not saying much at all. That's why I'm glad you you I was That's why I'm glad you you I was That's why I'm glad you you I was reluctant to get into it, not knowing reluctant to get into it, not knowing reluctant to get into it, not knowing how you have worked it through. how you have worked it through. how you have worked it through. But it's obviously But it's obviously But it's obviously changed you. changed you. changed you. >> Yes. Well, thank you for all that you >> Yes. Well, thank you for all that you >> Yes. Well, thank you for all that you said. That was just so powerful. And I said. That was just so powerful. And I said. That was just so powerful. And I know that's going to be a blessing to so know that's going to be a blessing to so know that's going to be a blessing to so many people as it was to me personally. many people as it was to me personally. many people as it was to me personally. It was like I was given the greatest It was like I was given the greatest It was like I was given the greatest personal counseling session from the personal counseling session from the personal counseling session from the greatest preacher on the worst moment of greatest preacher on the worst moment of greatest preacher on the worst moment of my life. And it meant so much to me. And my life. And it meant so much to me. And my life. And it meant so much to me. And I'm going to go back over what you've I'm going to go back over what you've I'm going to go back over what you've said to me. It was very moving to me.

said to me. It was very moving to me. said to me. It was very moving to me. >> You know, Greg, um, you have depth. >> You know, Greg, um, you have depth. >> You know, Greg, um, you have depth. You may feel young. You may feel, you You may feel young. You may feel, you You may feel young. You may feel, you know, um, overwhelmed know, um, overwhelmed know, um, overwhelmed by opportunities that open. All God by opportunities that open. All God by opportunities that open. All God knows what he's doing. knows what he's doing. knows what he's doing. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> God knows what he's about. >> God knows what he's about. >> God knows what he's about. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He He knows who he's using. >> He He knows who he's using. >> He He knows who he's using. He not only knows your name, He not only knows your name, He not only knows your name, he knows the depth, he knows the depth, he knows the depth, the length of those tests. the length of those tests. the length of those tests. He plans both the depth and the length He plans both the depth and the length He plans both the depth and the length of tests. of tests. of tests. So when you stand to speak, you know So when you stand to speak, you know So when you stand to speak, you know what, Greg, I don't even have to be told what, Greg, I don't even have to be told what, Greg, I don't even have to be told this. this. this. You're not important at all. You're not important at all. You're not important at all. You are quietly amazed that they're even You are quietly amazed that they're even You are quietly amazed that they're even there. Yeah. I I constantly live like there. Yeah. I I constantly live like there. Yeah. I I constantly live like that. that. that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'm constantly surprised that someone >> I'm constantly surprised that someone >> I'm constantly surprised that someone reads for something I write or they reads for something I write or they reads for something I write or they listen when I speak or or they they uh listen when I speak or or they they uh listen when I speak or or they they uh enjoy things that I enjoy when I'm enjoy things that I enjoy when I'm enjoy things that I enjoy when I'm sharing it with them. And I just think, sharing it with them. And I just think, sharing it with them. And I just think, Lord, you're you're too good. How could Lord, you're you're too good. How could Lord, you're you're too good. How could you use a you use a you use a >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> a kid that wasn't even wanted >> a kid that wasn't even wanted >> a kid that wasn't even wanted >> Yeah. like you've used me and like >> Yeah. like you've used me and like >> Yeah. like you've used me and like you're using Greg. And what what a you're using Greg. And what what a you're using Greg. And what what a absolute absolute absolute privilege. privilege. privilege. Stay surprised. Stay surprised. Stay surprised. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Just stay surprised. >> Just stay surprised. >> Just stay surprised. I'm convinced Greg when he stood there I'm convinced Greg when he stood there I'm convinced Greg when he stood there and watch the stadium field fill up and watch the stadium field fill up and watch the stadium field fill up first base and then out in the outfield first base and then out in the outfield first base and then out in the outfield and then more then in the in into the and then more then in the in into the and then more then in the in into the bullpen. They had to put them right bullpen. They had to put them right bullpen. They had to put them right there in Angel Stadium. remember? Yes. there in Angel Stadium. remember? Yes. there in Angel Stadium. remember? Yes. And I thought And I thought And I thought >> I said to Cynthia how wrong I was when I >> I said to Cynthia how wrong I was when I >> I said to Cynthia how wrong I was when I said it was so simple. said it was so simple. said it was so simple. >> It was too simple. You're you're right. >> It was too simple. You're you're right. >> It was too simple. You're you're right. He knew exactly what God would have him He knew exactly what God would have him He knew exactly what God would have him say. And say. And say. And >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> sometime we just >> sometime we just >> sometime we just need to step aside in our spirit and let need to step aside in our spirit and let need to step aside in our spirit and let him take it. Take the credit. Take the him take it. Take the credit. Take the him take it. Take the credit. Take the glory. Take the message.

glory. Take the message. glory. Take the message. take the opportunity. take the opportunity. take the opportunity. Uh, I spent too many times in my life Uh, I spent too many times in my life Uh, I spent too many times in my life saying no or no, I I can't do radio. I saying no or no, I I can't do radio. I saying no or no, I I can't do radio. I don't do radio. I'm I I don't even don't do radio. I'm I I don't even don't do radio. I'm I I don't even listen to Christian radio. And and and listen to Christian radio. And and and listen to Christian radio. And and and Al Sanders said to me, "Well, many Al Sanders said to me, "Well, many Al Sanders said to me, "Well, many people do." And uh he said, "Can I show people do." And uh he said, "Can I show people do." And uh he said, "Can I show you a little sample?" And I said, "Yeah, you a little sample?" And I said, "Yeah, you a little sample?" And I said, "Yeah, sure." Well, I took it home and played sure." Well, I took it home and played sure." Well, I took it home and played it with Cynthia listening and and I go, it with Cynthia listening and and I go, it with Cynthia listening and and I go, "Wow. "Wow. "Wow. He kind of put it together and he said, He kind of put it together and he said, He kind of put it together and he said, "We'll be the first broadcast that goes "We'll be the first broadcast that goes "We'll be the first broadcast that goes out where we used the live audience. out where we used the live audience. out where we used the live audience. Everybody else went to a studio back Everybody else went to a studio back Everybody else went to a studio back then, then, then, >> but you're going to we're going to use I >> but you're going to we're going to use I >> but you're going to we're going to use I said, "You mean all the coughing and said, "You mean all the coughing and said, "You mean all the coughing and sneezing and baby crying?" He said, sneezing and baby crying?" He said, sneezing and baby crying?" He said, "Yeah, that's real life." "Yeah, that's real life." "Yeah, that's real life." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And they loved that. >> And they loved that. >> And they loved that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh. And he was so right. I was so wrong. >> Oh. And he was so right. I was so wrong. >> Oh. And he was so right. I was so wrong. And when the dear friend in our church And when the dear friend in our church And when the dear friend in our church begged me to write the book for those begged me to write the book for those begged me to write the book for those who hurt, I just spoken on it. And I who hurt, I just spoken on it. And I who hurt, I just spoken on it. And I said, "No, I don't do books. I'm got my said, "No, I don't do books. I'm got my said, "No, I don't do books. I'm got my hands full doing sermons." He said, "You hands full doing sermons." He said, "You hands full doing sermons." He said, "You got to write this book. Whatever it got to write this book. Whatever it got to write this book. Whatever it costs, I'll pay for." I said, "I don't costs, I'll pay for." I said, "I don't costs, I'll pay for." I said, "I don't know what it costs. I don't know how to know what it costs. I don't know how to know what it costs. I don't know how to write books. I don't do books. You've write books. I don't do books. You've write books. I don't do books. You've got to do this one in a book." He almost got to do this one in a book." He almost got to do this one in a book." He almost yelled at me. So I said to my secretary yelled at me. So I said to my secretary yelled at me. So I said to my secretary the next day, Larry Cruzen came down the the next day, Larry Cruzen came down the the next day, Larry Cruzen came down the aisle last night. He was flaming. I aisle last night. He was flaming. I aisle last night. He was flaming. I found out later his daughter had run found out later his daughter had run found out later his daughter had run away. He was hurting.

away. He was hurting. away. He was hurting. >> Ah, >> Ah, >> Ah, >> and he said, "What you said is exactly >> and he said, "What you said is exactly >> and he said, "What you said is exactly what I needed to hear. I need to read it what I needed to hear. I need to read it what I needed to hear. I need to read it and read it again and again." I finally and read it again and again." I finally and read it again and again." I finally found a publisher that would I was found a publisher that would I was found a publisher that would I was nobody. nobody. nobody. I'm still a nobody, but at least I've I'm still a nobody, but at least I've I'm still a nobody, but at least I've written a few things and and and uh back written a few things and and and uh back written a few things and and and uh back then nobody wanted to publish it. No, then nobody wanted to publish it. No, then nobody wanted to publish it. No, but there's not a place for that. but there's not a place for that. but there's not a place for that. That little book is still in print. So, That little book is still in print. So, That little book is still in print. So, Multma Press. Yeah. Little press up in Multma Press. Yeah. Little press up in Multma Press. Yeah. Little press up in Oregon. John Band said to me, "Oh, we'll Oregon. John Band said to me, "Oh, we'll Oregon. John Band said to me, "Oh, we'll we'll take this manuscript. We'll make we'll take this manuscript. We'll make we'll take this manuscript. We'll make this into a gift book." Well, indeed this into a gift book." Well, indeed this into a gift book." Well, indeed they did along with Second Wind, Killing they did along with Second Wind, Killing they did along with Second Wind, Killing Giants, Pulling Thorns, Giants, Pulling Thorns, Giants, Pulling Thorns, uh, Growing Strong in the Seasons of uh, Growing Strong in the Seasons of uh, Growing Strong in the Seasons of Life, Come Before Winter. All of those Life, Come Before Winter. All of those Life, Come Before Winter. All of those from little excerpts of things I've been from little excerpts of things I've been from little excerpts of things I've been writing our church under a heading of writing our church under a heading of writing our church under a heading of think it over. think it over. think it over. >> I never dreamed it would ever go into a >> I never dreamed it would ever go into a >> I never dreamed it would ever go into a book.

book. book. >> I'm telling you, Greg, I never dreamed I >> I'm telling you, Greg, I never dreamed I >> I'm telling you, Greg, I never dreamed I would ever be a writer ever. That's the would ever be a writer ever. That's the would ever be a writer ever. That's the truth. I'm not trying to be humble. I'm truth. I'm not trying to be humble. I'm truth. I'm not trying to be humble. I'm saying I didn't I didn't have the saying I didn't I didn't have the saying I didn't I didn't have the thought of that. [snorts] thought of that. [snorts] thought of that. [snorts] And it was like, And it was like, And it was like, good night, good night, good night, you're kidding. you're kidding. you're kidding. That's first response when they said, That's first response when they said, That's first response when they said, "Man, these books are flying off the "Man, these books are flying off the "Man, these books are flying off the shelf. When's the next one?" I said, shelf. When's the next one?" I said, shelf. When's the next one?" I said, "I've already written a book. I That's "I've already written a book. I That's "I've already written a book. I That's the thing." But they want more books. the thing." But they want more books. the thing." But they want more books. You know how that goes. Yeah, You know how that goes. Yeah, You know how that goes. Yeah, >> Greg, there's always a place for anyone there's always a place for anyone [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] who will truly let God who will truly let God who will truly let God lead his life. >> Stay out of the way. >> Stay out of the way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Lie low. >> Lie low. >> Lie low. Stay surprised. Stay surprised. Stay surprised. You uh We don't need agents. We don't You uh We don't need agents. We don't You uh We don't need agents. We don't need big time people out front. We we we need big time people out front. We we we need big time people out front. We we we don't need uh flags. Uh we don't need to don't need uh flags. Uh we don't need to don't need uh flags. Uh we don't need to promote our own stuff and carry our promote our own stuff and carry our promote our own stuff and carry our books in the trunk of our cars and beg books in the trunk of our cars and beg books in the trunk of our cars and beg people to buy them. No. No. God will people to buy them. No. No. God will people to buy them. No. No. God will take care of them. He brought David out take care of them. He brought David out take care of them. He brought David out of the sheepfold from following the huge of the sheepfold from following the huge of the sheepfold from following the huge grade with Yong. He brought him to feed grade with Yong. He brought him to feed grade with Yong. He brought him to feed Jacob, his people, and Israel his Jacob, his people, and Israel his Jacob, his people, and Israel his inheritance. Get this. So he fed them inheritance. Get this. So he fed them inheritance. Get this. So he fed them according to the integrity of his heart.

according to the integrity of his heart. according to the integrity of his heart. And he guided them with skillful hands. And he guided them with skillful hands. And he guided them with skillful hands. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Psalm 78 ends with those beautiful >> Psalm 78 ends with those beautiful >> Psalm 78 ends with those beautiful verses. verses. verses. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Took him from the sheep and he felt oil running down his neck and he felt oil running down his neck and he thought, "What's this?" and he thought, "What's this?" and he thought, "What's this?" You know, average guy run down to You know, average guy run down to You know, average guy run down to Nordstrom and start buying crowns Nordstrom and start buying crowns Nordstrom and start buying crowns because they're going to be king. because they're going to be king. because they're going to be king. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Nope. David went right back with a >> Nope. David went right back with a >> Nope. David went right back with a sheep. sheep. sheep. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Next time we see him, he's fighting a >> Next time we see him, he's fighting a >> Next time we see him, he's fighting a giant, not to be seen, but because giant, not to be seen, but because giant, not to be seen, but because this uncircumcised Philistine has no this uncircumcised Philistine has no this uncircumcised Philistine has no right to talk about God's people like right to talk about God's people like right to talk about God's people like he's been doing. And he took that sling he's been doing. And he took that sling he's been doing. And he took that sling and he slung that rock, hit it right and he slung that rock, hit it right and he slung that rock, hit it right between the running lights. Knocked him between the running lights. Knocked him between the running lights. Knocked him right down. took that head and walked up right down. took that head and walked up right down. took that head and walked up to Saul and said, "Well, here it is." to Saul and said, "Well, here it is." to Saul and said, "Well, here it is." Saul goes, "Who is this?"

Saul goes, "Who is this?" Saul goes, "Who is this?" >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> David was never impressed with himself. >> David was never impressed with himself. >> David was never impressed with himself. And then Saul, you know, began to chase And then Saul, you know, began to chase And then Saul, you know, began to chase him. 12, 13 years. him. 12, 13 years. him. 12, 13 years. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> David said, "What have I done?" said to >> David said, "What have I done?" said to >> David said, "What have I done?" said to Jonathan, "What have I done?" Jonathan, "What have I done?" Jonathan, "What have I done?" >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> How what have I done against Saul? >> How what have I done against Saul? >> How what have I done against Saul? Nothing. Nothing. Why is he trying to Nothing. Nothing. Why is he trying to Nothing. Nothing. Why is he trying to kill me? It's all part of learning, kill me? It's all part of learning, kill me? It's all part of learning, Dave. You're learning to king it. You're Dave. You're learning to king it. You're Dave. You're learning to king it. You're learning how kings live. You'll continue learning how kings live. You'll continue learning how kings live. You'll continue to be shot at and speared to be shot at and speared to be shot at and speared and talked about and criticized. Stay at and talked about and criticized. Stay at and talked about and criticized. Stay at it. [snorts] Stay at it. Cynthia and I it. [snorts] Stay at it. Cynthia and I it. [snorts] Stay at it. Cynthia and I have the favorite line. Stay at it. have the favorite line. Stay at it. have the favorite line. Stay at it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Stay at it. Like you and Kathy. >> Stay at it. Like you and Kathy. >> Stay at it. Like you and Kathy. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. What would you do differently if you had What would you do differently if you had What would you do differently if you had these 50 years to live over again? It's these 50 years to live over again? It's these 50 years to live over again? It's never too late to start doing what is never too late to start doing what is never too late to start doing what is right. Don't go into all the things right. Don't go into all the things right. Don't go into all the things you've not done to all the things you you've not done to all the things you you've not done to all the things you should have done. Start now. If you were should have done. Start now. If you were should have done. Start now. If you were to give one last sermon, what would your to give one last sermon, what would your to give one last sermon, what would your text be and what would your [music] text be and what would your [music] text be and what would your [music] topic be? I've never been asked this.

topic be? I've never been asked this. topic be? I've never been asked this. >> Hey, thanks for joining me today. >> Hey, thanks for joining me today. >> Hey, thanks for joining me today. Subscribe to my YouTube channel, follow Subscribe to my YouTube channel, follow Subscribe to my YouTube channel, follow me on social media, and be sure to me on social media, and be sure to me on social media, and be sure to download the Harvest Plus app, where you download the Harvest Plus app, where you download the Harvest Plus app, where you will find exclusive content just for will find exclusive content just for will find exclusive content just for you. See you next time.