When Your Pastor Feels Distant

[music] [music] >> What seems to be a very common dilemma >> What seems to be a very common dilemma >> What seems to be a very common dilemma for a growing church, predictable even. for a growing church, predictable even. for a growing church, predictable even. The pastor, the guy we all knew so The pastor, the guy we all knew so The pastor, the guy we all knew so personally, a friend, and the shepherd personally, a friend, and the shepherd personally, a friend, and the shepherd of the flock, slowly begins to feel more of the flock, slowly begins to feel more of the flock, slowly begins to feel more distant as the pews get fuller and distant as the pews get fuller and distant as the pews get fuller and fuller. fuller. fuller. As things change, the pastor becomes As things change, the pastor becomes As things change, the pastor becomes more of a voice in a microphone rather more of a voice in a microphone rather more of a voice in a microphone rather than a friend who knows your name and than a friend who knows your name and than a friend who knows your name and everything about your life. This is one everything about your life. This is one everything about your life. This is one of the good problems of a growing church of the good problems of a growing church of the good problems of a growing church just to to wrestle with, but how does a just to to wrestle with, but how does a just to to wrestle with, but how does a leader bridge this gap to the best of leader bridge this gap to the best of leader bridge this gap to the best of his ability? And how does a congregation his ability? And how does a congregation his ability? And how does a congregation come to understand that the changes that come to understand that the changes that come to understand that the changes that come in a growing church? come in a growing church? come in a growing church? Today on Ask Pastor John, when your Today on Ask Pastor John, when your Today on Ask Pastor John, when your pastor feels distant. pastor feels distant. pastor feels distant. The question today is from a pastor, an The question today is from a pastor, an The question today is from a pastor, an anonymous man. Pastor John, hello to you anonymous man. Pastor John, hello to you anonymous man. Pastor John, hello to you from a long-time listener and a fairly from a long-time listener and a fairly from a long-time listener and a fairly new pastor of a small but growing new pastor of a small but growing new pastor of a small but growing church. church. church. Paul describes his pastoral ministry Paul describes his pastoral ministry Paul describes his pastoral ministry with tender imagery like a nursing with tender imagery like a nursing with tender imagery like a nursing mother caring for her children mother caring for her children mother caring for her children in 1 Thessalonians 2:7-8. in 1 Thessalonians 2:7-8. in 1 Thessalonians 2:7-8. And he emphasized a willingness not only And he emphasized a willingness not only And he emphasized a willingness not only to share the gospel, but his very life to share the gospel, but his very life to share the gospel, but his very life with the people.

with the people. with the people. In light of this model, how did you In light of this model, how did you In light of this model, how did you approach the work of pastoral care for approach the work of pastoral care for approach the work of pastoral care for individuals and families under your individuals and families under your individuals and families under your shepherding? What principles shaped your shepherding? What principles shaped your shepherding? What principles shaped your ministry to the hurting, the wandering, ministry to the hurting, the wandering, ministry to the hurting, the wandering, and the grieving? Especially as your and the grieving? Especially as your and the grieving? Especially as your church began to grow, how did you church began to grow, how did you church began to grow, how did you balance spiritual counsel from the balance spiritual counsel from the balance spiritual counsel from the pulpit, practical support, and emotional pulpit, practical support, and emotional pulpit, practical support, and emotional presence? presence? presence? >> The first thing to say >> The first thing to say >> The first thing to say is that I don't think I ever got this is that I don't think I ever got this is that I don't think I ever got this exactly right. exactly right. exactly right. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I don't even know what exactly right >> I don't even know what exactly right >> I don't even know what exactly right looks like when it comes to looks like when it comes to looks like when it comes to every member being known and cared for every member being known and cared for every member being known and cared for and held accountable by biblically and held accountable by biblically and held accountable by biblically qualified church leaders in a church, qualified church leaders in a church, qualified church leaders in a church, say, like ours that was growing from 300 say, like ours that was growing from 300 say, like ours that was growing from 300 to 4,000 over 30 years. to 4,000 over 30 years. to 4,000 over 30 years. Like so many things in the New Like so many things in the New Like so many things in the New Testament, we're given guidelines, Testament, we're given guidelines, Testament, we're given guidelines, but not blueprints. I think the only way but not blueprints. I think the only way but not blueprints. I think the only way a conscientious pastor can survive a conscientious pastor can survive a conscientious pastor can survive over decades of ambiguity, over decades of ambiguity, over decades of ambiguity, and here I guess I'm just speaking out and here I guess I'm just speaking out and here I guess I'm just speaking out of my own personality or or or of my own personality or or or of my own personality or or or situation, decades of ambiguity and a situation, decades of ambiguity and a situation, decades of ambiguity and a sense of inadequacy sense of inadequacy sense of inadequacy is to lean on the blood bought forgiving is to lean on the blood bought forgiving is to lean on the blood bought forgiving mercy of Christ and try over and over mercy of Christ and try over and over mercy of Christ and try over and over again to do it better. At least that's again to do it better. At least that's again to do it better. At least that's my autobiography. I feel like I I never my autobiography. I feel like I I never my autobiography. I feel like I I never did much better than B- minus or I don't did much better than B- minus or I don't did much better than B- minus or I don't know, C+ when it when it comes to how do know, C+ when it when it comes to how do know, C+ when it when it comes to how do you know everybody, how do you care for

you know everybody, how do you care for you know everybody, how do you care for everybody, and not just speak from the everybody, and not just speak from the everybody, and not just speak from the pulpit. So, let me mention a few pulpit. So, let me mention a few pulpit. So, let me mention a few biblical texts that I think embody some biblical texts that I think embody some biblical texts that I think embody some of these guidelines, and then I'll give of these guidelines, and then I'll give of these guidelines, and then I'll give my own personal testimony of of how I my own personal testimony of of how I my own personal testimony of of how I tried tried tried over the years to flesh over the years to flesh over the years to flesh those guidelines out. those guidelines out. those guidelines out. First, 1 Peter 5:2-3, First, 1 Peter 5:2-3, First, 1 Peter 5:2-3, "Shepherd the flock of God that is among "Shepherd the flock of God that is among "Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, you, you, exercising oversight, not under exercising oversight, not under exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would compulsion, but willingly, as God would compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you, not for shameful gain, but have you, not for shameful gain, but have you, not for shameful gain, but eagerly, not domineering over those in eagerly, not domineering over those in eagerly, not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the your charge, but being examples to the your charge, but being examples to the flock." flock." flock." So, the guideline is So, the guideline is So, the guideline is by all means lead the church by all means lead the church by all means lead the church like a shepherd like a shepherd like a shepherd leads to green pastures and still waters leads to green pastures and still waters leads to green pastures and still waters and safety from wolves, and safety from wolves, and safety from wolves, but do it but do it but do it for the right motives. Don't do it for for the right motives. Don't do it for for the right motives. Don't do it for money, and don't do it begrudgingly, and money, and don't do it begrudgingly, and money, and don't do it begrudgingly, and do it joyfully, and don't do it with a do it joyfully, and don't do it with a do it joyfully, and don't do it with a domineering spirit to puff yourself up, domineering spirit to puff yourself up, domineering spirit to puff yourself up, but with a lowly spirit of Christ-like but with a lowly spirit of Christ-like but with a lowly spirit of Christ-like incarnation, getting down low and coming incarnation, getting down low and coming incarnation, getting down low and coming alongside the people and being an alongside the people and being an alongside the people and being an example example example of what you're trying to preach. So, of what you're trying to preach. So, of what you're trying to preach. So, that's that's that's guideline number one.

guideline number one. guideline number one. Number two, 1 Thessalonians 2:7. Number two, 1 Thessalonians 2:7. Number two, 1 Thessalonians 2:7. We were gentle among you like a nursing We were gentle among you like a nursing We were gentle among you like a nursing mother taking care of her own children, mother taking care of her own children, mother taking care of her own children, so being affectionately desirous of you, so being affectionately desirous of you, so being affectionately desirous of you, we were ready to share with you not only we were ready to share with you not only we were ready to share with you not only the gospel of God, but our own selves the gospel of God, but our own selves the gospel of God, but our own selves because you had become very dear to us. because you had become very dear to us. because you had become very dear to us. Oh, don't you love the Apostle Paul? Oh, don't you love the Apostle Paul? Oh, don't you love the Apostle Paul? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> He just was so theologically rich and so >> He just was so theologically rich and so >> He just was so theologically rich and so tenderly personal. So, the guideline is tenderly personal. So, the guideline is tenderly personal. So, the guideline is to love your people with tender to love your people with tender to love your people with tender affection, not just dutifully, but with affection, not just dutifully, but with affection, not just dutifully, but with heartfelt affection. We open our heart heartfelt affection. We open our heart heartfelt affection. We open our heart and life to our people. That's what we and life to our people. That's what we and life to our people. That's what we do if we're shepherds. We're not distant do if we're shepherds. We're not distant do if we're shepherds. We're not distant or closed or evasive or detached or or closed or evasive or detached or or closed or evasive or detached or aloof. aloof. aloof. That's not the way we do it. If If That's not the way we do it. If If That's not the way we do it. If If that's the way you are by nature, that's the way you are by nature, that's the way you are by nature, you need to plead with God you need to plead with God you need to plead with God that he would change you. There are that he would change you. There are that he would change you. There are personality types that probably should personality types that probably should personality types that probably should not be pastors.

not be pastors. not be pastors. So, that's number two. Number three, So, that's number two. Number three, So, that's number two. Number three, Acts 20:20, Acts 20:20, Acts 20:20, Paul says to the elders of Ephesus, Paul says to the elders of Ephesus, Paul says to the elders of Ephesus, "I did not shrink from declaring to you "I did not shrink from declaring to you "I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, teaching anything that was profitable, teaching anything that was profitable, teaching you in public you in public you in public and from house to house." and from house to house." and from house to house." So, the guideline here is So, the guideline here is So, the guideline here is that it is pastorally that it is pastorally that it is pastorally helpful helpful helpful not only to teach the people in large not only to teach the people in large not only to teach the people in large groups as from a pulpit, groups as from a pulpit, groups as from a pulpit, but in smaller groups in informal but in smaller groups in informal but in smaller groups in informal settings. settings. settings. I don't think this is a mandate I don't think this is a mandate I don't think this is a mandate that a pastor must be in every member's that a pastor must be in every member's that a pastor must be in every member's house. house. house. We don't know how many people gathered We don't know how many people gathered We don't know how many people gathered in those house meetings. in those house meetings. in those house meetings. But, the guideline is a shepherd is not But, the guideline is a shepherd is not But, the guideline is a shepherd is not content to speak from a distance to a content to speak from a distance to a content to speak from a distance to a crowd. crowd. crowd. But seeks out other less formal But seeks out other less formal But seeks out other less formal gatherings for instruction and common gatherings for instruction and common gatherings for instruction and common life.

life. life. And then finally, number four, And then finally, number four, And then finally, number four, Hebrews 13:17. Hebrews 13:17. Hebrews 13:17. Uh obey your leaders and submit to them Uh obey your leaders and submit to them Uh obey your leaders and submit to them for they are keeping watch over your for they are keeping watch over your for they are keeping watch over your souls souls souls as those who have to give an account. as those who have to give an account. as those who have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with Let them do this with joy and not with Let them do this with joy and not with groaning groaning groaning for that would be of no advantage to for that would be of no advantage to for that would be of no advantage to you. So, the guideline for pastors here you. So, the guideline for pastors here you. So, the guideline for pastors here is is is to joyfully to joyfully to joyfully keep watch over the souls of their keep watch over the souls of their keep watch over the souls of their members in the awareness, the weighty members in the awareness, the weighty members in the awareness, the weighty awareness, awareness, awareness, that we will give an account to Christ that we will give an account to Christ that we will give an account to Christ for how we did this. for how we did this. for how we did this. So, that's the list of guidelines and it So, that's the list of guidelines and it So, that's the list of guidelines and it could go on and on, really. It's not could go on and on, really. It's not could go on and on, really. It's not just four, just four, just four, but these few are what our friend wrote but these few are what our friend wrote but these few are what our friend wrote about. I mean, this is what he asked about. I mean, this is what he asked about. I mean, this is what he asked about, especially the the relationship about, especially the the relationship about, especially the the relationship between the public ministry between the public ministry between the public ministry of the pulpit and the personal ministry of the pulpit and the personal ministry of the pulpit and the personal ministry among the people. So, here's among the people. So, here's among the people. So, here's some of the ways that I tried some of the ways that I tried some of the ways that I tried to flesh out uh both to flesh out uh both to flesh out uh both of those, both the I kind of both and of those, both the I kind of both and of those, both the I kind of both and ministry, public ministry and personal ministry, public ministry and personal ministry, public ministry and personal ministry.

ministry. ministry. I always viewed the pulpit I always viewed the pulpit I always viewed the pulpit as my primary way of shepherding the as my primary way of shepherding the as my primary way of shepherding the people. people. people. Feeding the people, leading the people, Feeding the people, leading the people, Feeding the people, leading the people, protecting the people, strengthening the protecting the people, strengthening the protecting the people, strengthening the people, people, people, teaching the people, seeking to teaching the people, seeking to teaching the people, seeking to transform their minds, comforting them, transform their minds, comforting them, transform their minds, comforting them, guiding them, guiding them, guiding them, encouraging them, correcting them, encouraging them, correcting them, encouraging them, correcting them, even being an example to them. All of even being an example to them. All of even being an example to them. All of that, I saw that's what you do in the that, I saw that's what you do in the that, I saw that's what you do in the pulpit. pulpit. pulpit. It's not Some of those don't go It's not Some of those don't go It's not Some of those don't go elsewhere only. I think the pulpit is elsewhere only. I think the pulpit is elsewhere only. I think the pulpit is where emotional health where emotional health where emotional health and humility and strength and and humility and strength and and humility and strength and transparency begin in the local church. transparency begin in the local church. transparency begin in the local church. If they don't see it there, where are If they don't see it there, where are If they don't see it there, where are they going to see it? This is what they going to see it? This is what they going to see it? This is what people see over and over again. That's people see over and over again. That's people see over and over again. That's why it's so primary. They see it over why it's so primary. They see it over why it's so primary. They see it over and over and over again. This is what and over and over again. This is what and over and over again. This is what visitors see visitors see visitors see when they come. when they come. when they come. Does he communicate a genuine, healthy, Does he communicate a genuine, healthy, Does he communicate a genuine, healthy, embodiment of biblical truth? That's embodiment of biblical truth? That's embodiment of biblical truth? That's what they That's what they look for, and what they That's what they look for, and what they That's what they look for, and that's what they ought to see.

that's what they ought to see. that's what they ought to see. It's possible, I think, It's possible, I think, It's possible, I think, to be radically God-centered to be radically God-centered to be radically God-centered and at the same time deeply personal and at the same time deeply personal and at the same time deeply personal and transparent. This is what I tried to and transparent. This is what I tried to and transparent. This is what I tried to do. Felt that's the right thing to do. do. Felt that's the right thing to do. do. Felt that's the right thing to do. It is possible for the sheep It is possible for the sheep It is possible for the sheep to feel that they really do know their to feel that they really do know their to feel that they really do know their shepherd because of how he communicates shepherd because of how he communicates shepherd because of how he communicates his soul, his mind, his heart, his his soul, his mind, his heart, his his soul, his mind, his heart, his emotions in the pulpit. emotions in the pulpit. emotions in the pulpit. In the early days, In the early days, In the early days, when I was the only pastor or maybe when I was the only pastor or maybe when I was the only pastor or maybe there were two, we hired a a number two there were two, we hired a a number two there were two, we hired a a number two guy pretty quickly when I came to a guy pretty quickly when I came to a guy pretty quickly when I came to a church of about 300 in attendance. church of about 300 in attendance. church of about 300 in attendance. I visited people in the hospital, all of I visited people in the hospital, all of I visited people in the hospital, all of them. Anybody got sick, I was there. them. Anybody got sick, I was there. them. Anybody got sick, I was there. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> I was at the side when someone died. I'd >> I was at the side when someone died. I'd >> I was at the side when someone died. I'd go to their home and grieve with them. I go to their home and grieve with them. I go to their home and grieve with them. I did all the funerals. I did the did all the funerals. I did the did all the funerals. I did the weddings. Noel and I opened our home and weddings. Noel and I opened our home and weddings. Noel and I opened our home and we invited everyone in the church to we invited everyone in the church to we invited everyone in the church to open houses at Christmas. We had to do open houses at Christmas. We had to do open houses at Christmas. We had to do it over more than one weekend. We held it over more than one weekend. We held it over more than one weekend. We held new members class in our living room for new members class in our living room for new members class in our living room for years.

years. years. We had a Sunday evening service where I We had a Sunday evening service where I We had a Sunday evening service where I did not wear my dark suit and tie, which did not wear my dark suit and tie, which did not wear my dark suit and tie, which I did very intentionally wear on Sunday I did very intentionally wear on Sunday I did very intentionally wear on Sunday [laughter] morning. It It And I could [laughter] morning. It It And I could [laughter] morning. It It And I could give a whole rationale for why that was. give a whole rationale for why that was. give a whole rationale for why that was. I came down out of the pulpit on Sunday I came down out of the pulpit on Sunday I came down out of the pulpit on Sunday evening on the level floor with an evening on the level floor with an evening on the level floor with an overhead projector and I dressed overhead projector and I dressed overhead projector and I dressed differently, I talked differently, I differently, I talked differently, I differently, I talked differently, I took questions, I became very personal. took questions, I became very personal. took questions, I became very personal. We described Sunday morning as the Mount We described Sunday morning as the Mount We described Sunday morning as the Mount of Transfiguration of Transfiguration of Transfiguration where the disciples fell down on their where the disciples fell down on their where the disciples fell down on their faces before the glory of the Lord. And faces before the glory of the Lord. And faces before the glory of the Lord. And we described Sunday evening we described Sunday evening we described Sunday evening as the Mount of Olives where Jesus as the Mount of Olives where Jesus as the Mount of Olives where Jesus stretched out on the grass stretched out on the grass stretched out on the grass on his elbow with his disciples and on his elbow with his disciples and on his elbow with his disciples and spoke to them about how things were spoke to them about how things were spoke to them about how things were going. going. going. And then there were Wednesdays. We had And then there were Wednesdays. We had And then there were Wednesdays. We had Wednesdays that I taught Wednesdays in Wednesdays that I taught Wednesdays in Wednesdays that I taught Wednesdays in in the same manner, very open, very very in the same manner, very open, very very in the same manner, very open, very very personal and relational. So I wanted personal and relational. So I wanted personal and relational. So I wanted people to see Piper is a people to see Piper is a people to see Piper is a thundering prophet on Sunday morning who thundering prophet on Sunday morning who thundering prophet on Sunday morning who could also be very nurse-like and could also be very nurse-like and could also be very nurse-like and tender.

tender. tender. But he he dresses up, he is reverent, But he he dresses up, he is reverent, But he he dresses up, he is reverent, there is dignity, there is awe. there is dignity, there is awe. there is dignity, there is awe. And he's another person on Sunday night. And he's another person on Sunday night. And he's another person on Sunday night. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because that's the way the gospel is and >> Because that's the way the gospel is and >> Because that's the way the gospel is and that's the way God is. He's both of that's the way God is. He's both of that's the way God is. He's both of those kinds of those kinds of those kinds of realities. realities. realities. So I tried to take the people to both So I tried to take the people to both So I tried to take the people to both theological and practical reality theological and practical reality theological and practical reality and all of the Christian life brought and all of the Christian life brought and all of the Christian life brought into the pulpit and the more personal into the pulpit and the more personal into the pulpit and the more personal smaller gatherings. smaller gatherings. smaller gatherings. As a church grew as it grew from zero As a church grew as it grew from zero As a church grew as it grew from zero elders to 40 elders. elders to 40 elders. elders to 40 elders. We didn't have anyone I came. I had to We didn't have anyone I came. I had to We didn't have anyone I came. I had to persuade the church that elders were persuade the church that elders were persuade the church that elders were were biblical. Took 10 years to do that. were biblical. Took 10 years to do that. were biblical. Took 10 years to do that. But then eventually we had pastor type But then eventually we had pastor type But then eventually we had pastor type elders and we divided the church into elders and we divided the church into elders and we divided the church into small groups with trained small group small groups with trained small group small groups with trained small group leaders and accountable elders who they leaders and accountable elders who they leaders and accountable elders who they were accountable to elders and and we were accountable to elders and and we were accountable to elders and and we tried in that way tried in that way tried in that way to see to it that everyone was known and to see to it that everyone was known and to see to it that everyone was known and accountable. And as the church became accountable. And as the church became accountable. And as the church became thousands instead of hundreds, thousands instead of hundreds, thousands instead of hundreds, the way I made myself available the way I made myself available the way I made myself available to pray with people was to linger after to pray with people was to linger after to pray with people was to linger after services as long as they wanted to to services as long as they wanted to to services as long as they wanted to to share a burden. I I said to them very share a burden. I I said to them very share a burden. I I said to them very publicly, "This is not a time for publicly, "This is not a time for publicly, "This is not a time for extended pastoral counseling.

extended pastoral counseling. extended pastoral counseling. We can't We can't do this for 3 hours. We can't We can't do this for 3 hours. We can't We can't do this for 3 hours. But I will hear any burden if it leads But I will hear any burden if it leads But I will hear any burden if it leads to prayer." And so that's what I did and to prayer." And so that's what I did and to prayer." And so that's what I did and I would typically stay for an hour or I would typically stay for an hour or I would typically stay for an hour or more after that second service. First more after that second service. First more after that second service. First service you only you do it for about 20 service you only you do it for about 20 service you only you do it for about 20 minutes, but I would stay until they're minutes, but I would stay until they're minutes, but I would stay until they're all gone. I was regularly the last all gone. I was regularly the last all gone. I was regularly the last person to walk out of the sanctuary person to walk out of the sanctuary person to walk out of the sanctuary absolutely exhausted because standing absolutely exhausted because standing absolutely exhausted because standing there and praying with people is more there and praying with people is more there and praying with people is more taxing than than preaching. taxing than than preaching. taxing than than preaching. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And yet everybody knew the pastor does >> And yet everybody knew the pastor does >> And yet everybody knew the pastor does that. Anybody in this church can walk that. Anybody in this church can walk that. Anybody in this church can walk right up to him, take his hand, speak in right up to him, take his hand, speak in right up to him, take his hand, speak in his ear, cry on his shoulder, and get his ear, cry on his shoulder, and get his ear, cry on his shoulder, and get prayer from our preaching pastor. I prayer from our preaching pastor. I prayer from our preaching pastor. I think the fact that, you know, only think the fact that, you know, only think the fact that, you know, only maybe maybe maybe So you can number the people in hundreds So you can number the people in hundreds So you can number the people in hundreds who did that instead of thousands. All who did that instead of thousands. All who did that instead of thousands. All of them knew about it and that made a of them knew about it and that made a of them knew about it and that made a huge difference in the way they huge difference in the way they huge difference in the way they perceived me and my availability, my perceived me and my availability, my perceived me and my availability, my shepherd bent. shepherd bent. shepherd bent. So there's So there's So there's lots more that could be said, lots more that could be said, lots more that could be said, but I think the main point our friend but I think the main point our friend but I think the main point our friend for our friend who's asking this is for our friend who's asking this is for our friend who's asking this is know the biblical guidelines, pray them know the biblical guidelines, pray them know the biblical guidelines, pray them into your heart, into your heart, into your heart, and as situations change in your church, and as situations change in your church, and as situations change in your church, just keep just keep just keep trying your very best various strategies trying your very best various strategies trying your very best various strategies to mingle public to mingle public to mingle public and personal ministry.

and personal ministry. and personal ministry. >> Yeah, some great memories of Saturday >> Yeah, some great memories of Saturday >> Yeah, some great memories of Saturday night Bethlehem downtown services night Bethlehem downtown services night Bethlehem downtown services talking with friends for 30 or 45 talking with friends for 30 or 45 talking with friends for 30 or 45 minutes and then leaving and looking minutes and then leaving and looking minutes and then leaving and looking back and there always was a line waiting back and there always was a line waiting back and there always was a line waiting to meet or talk with Pastor John on to meet or talk with Pastor John on to meet or talk with Pastor John on Saturday nights. So you'd be there. Saturday nights. So you'd be there. Saturday nights. So you'd be there. >> Yeah. And I I remember making clear, >> Yeah. And I I remember making clear, >> Yeah. And I I remember making clear, too, this is not a time for signatures. too, this is not a time for signatures. too, this is not a time for signatures. We don't do autographs here. This is for We don't do autographs here. This is for We don't do autographs here. This is for prayer. prayer. prayer. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> And and the people obeyed. They >> And and the people obeyed. They >> And and the people obeyed. They I didn't I mean, even even guests felt I didn't I mean, even even guests felt I didn't I mean, even even guests felt very self-conscious doing more than just very self-conscious doing more than just very self-conscious doing more than just praying. praying. praying. >> Yeah. Special time. >> Yeah. Special time. >> Yeah. Special time. Like so many things in the New Testament Like so many things in the New Testament Like so many things in the New Testament we're given guidelines, not blueprints. we're given guidelines, not blueprints. we're given guidelines, not blueprints. Yeah. And no perfect blueprint for this Yeah. And no perfect blueprint for this Yeah. And no perfect blueprint for this in the New Testament. Pastors lead from in the New Testament. Pastors lead from in the New Testament. Pastors lead from true care, not for money, not true care, not for money, not true care, not for money, not domineering, but with a lowly domineering, but with a lowly domineering, but with a lowly Christ-like affection for the flock, no Christ-like affection for the flock, no Christ-like affection for the flock, no matter the size of the church, matter the size of the church, matter the size of the church, opening their lives to the people in opening their lives to the people in opening their lives to the people in whatever ways are possible, but a whatever ways are possible, but a whatever ways are possible, but a hospitality that has begun from behind hospitality that has begun from behind hospitality that has begun from behind the microphone and in the pulpit. That's the microphone and in the pulpit. That's the microphone and in the pulpit. That's a line that I wrote down, quote, is a line that I wrote down, quote, is a line that I wrote down, quote, is possible for the sheep to feel that they possible for the sheep to feel that they possible for the sheep to feel that they really do know their shepherd really do know their shepherd really do know their shepherd because of how he communicates his soul, because of how he communicates his soul, because of how he communicates his soul, his mind, his heart, his emotions his mind, his heart, his emotions his mind, his heart, his emotions in the pulpit. End quote. Yeah.

in the pulpit. End quote. Yeah. in the pulpit. End quote. Yeah. Thank you for all this, Pastor John. Thank you for all this, Pastor John. Thank you for all this, Pastor John. And if you are in the process of trying And if you are in the process of trying And if you are in the process of trying to find a new local church, what do you to find a new local church, what do you to find a new local church, what do you look for in that church and its look for in that church and its look for in that church and its leadership? See the Ask Pastor John book leadership? See the Ask Pastor John book leadership? See the Ask Pastor John book on pages 417 to 428 for more on making on pages 417 to 428 for more on making on pages 417 to 428 for more on making that crucial decision. that crucial decision. that crucial decision. Thank you for joining us today. If you Thank you for joining us today. If you Thank you for joining us today. If you have a question to Ask Pastor John, find have a question to Ask Pastor John, find have a question to Ask Pastor John, find a link to email us and find our complete a link to email us and find our complete a link to email us and find our complete episode archive at the same place, Ask episode archive at the same place, Ask episode archive at the same place, Ask Pastor John.com. God's plan God's plan for your prayers. for your prayers. for your prayers. That's next. I'm Tony Reinke. See you on That's next. I'm Tony Reinke. See you on That's next. I'm Tony Reinke. See you on Thursday.