Faith and Science in Genesis 1 & 2

All right, welcome. All right, welcome. >> Welcome. Uh, my name is Lance Lawson. >> Welcome. Uh, my name is Lance Lawson. >> Welcome. Uh, my name is Lance Lawson. This is Yansancy Arrington. Yansancy, This is Yansancy Arrington. Yansancy, This is Yansancy Arrington. Yansancy, you're our teaching pastor here at Clear you're our teaching pastor here at Clear you're our teaching pastor here at Clear Creek Community Church. Creek Community Church. Creek Community Church. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> I lead the help lead the 517 campus >> I lead the help lead the 517 campus >> I lead the help lead the 517 campus >> and we're here to talk about faith and >> and we're here to talk about faith and >> and we're here to talk about faith and science because we're in a series this science because we're in a series this science because we're in a series this summer called Origins, a study of summer called Origins, a study of summer called Origins, a study of Genesis 1-12. Genesis 1-12. Genesis 1-12. >> Yes, we are. >> Yes, we are. >> Yes, we are. >> Why would we even do this series over >> Why would we even do this series over >> Why would we even do this series over the summer? you know, uh we wanted to do the summer? you know, uh we wanted to do the summer? you know, uh we wanted to do this series. Uh first of all, it's just this series. Uh first of all, it's just this series. Uh first of all, it's just a foundational Genesis is so a foundational Genesis is so a foundational Genesis is so foundational, especially the first two foundational, especially the first two foundational, especially the first two chapters and one of the reasons we're chapters and one of the reasons we're chapters and one of the reasons we're here today. But the first two chapters here today. But the first two chapters here today. But the first two chapters are so foundational about how we are so foundational about how we are so foundational about how we understand all kinds of things. Uh understand all kinds of things. Uh understand all kinds of things. Uh marriage, family, gender, uh creation, marriage, family, gender, uh creation, marriage, family, gender, uh creation, uh and I think creation is the one that uh and I think creation is the one that uh and I think creation is the one that most people think about, Genesis 1 and most people think about, Genesis 1 and most people think about, Genesis 1 and 2. And uh 2. And uh 2. And uh >> but it just makes a lot of people >> but it just makes a lot of people >> but it just makes a lot of people nervous depending on the traditions they nervous depending on the traditions they nervous depending on the traditions they come from. um especially when it comes come from. um especially when it comes come from. um especially when it comes to uh Genesis and science and maybe the to uh Genesis and science and maybe the to uh Genesis and science and maybe the the broader charact uh the category of the broader charact uh the category of the broader charact uh the category of faith and science and I know uh faith faith and science and I know uh faith faith and science and I know uh faith and how it intersects science is you're and how it intersects science is you're and how it intersects science is you're super passionate about and uh it just we super passionate about and uh it just we super passionate about and uh it just we thought uh that it would be as we did thought uh that it would be as we did thought uh that it would be as we did this series especially through the first this series especially through the first this series especially through the first two chapters of Genesis that you and I two chapters of Genesis that you and I two chapters of Genesis that you and I would just sit down and talk about like would just sit down and talk about like would just sit down and talk about like what are some ways that Christians can what are some ways that Christians can what are some ways that Christians can think about how faith uh engages engages think about how faith uh engages engages think about how faith uh engages engages science uh or doesn't engage. I mean, science uh or doesn't engage. I mean, science uh or doesn't engage. I mean, that's kind of some of the questions that's kind of some of the questions that's kind of some of the questions that are out there. I don't know how that are out there. I don't know how that are out there. I don't know how it's been for you in preaching. Uh but it's been for you in preaching. Uh but it's been for you in preaching. Uh but really, right off the bat in the series really, right off the bat in the series really, right off the bat in the series for me, I've had a ton of people just for me, I've had a ton of people just for me, I've had a ton of people just pull me aside. It's like, "Hey, I've pull me aside. It's like, "Hey, I've pull me aside. It's like, "Hey, I've never heard Genesis explained like that.

never heard Genesis explained like that. never heard Genesis explained like that. That's super helpful." Um and you could That's super helpful." Um and you could That's super helpful." Um and you could tell they're almost relieved. And uh I tell they're almost relieved. And uh I tell they're almost relieved. And uh I think what we can do here today in a think what we can do here today in a think what we can do here today in a podcast while not solving or answering podcast while not solving or answering podcast while not solving or answering every question and problem is that we every question and problem is that we every question and problem is that we can at least give people some directions can at least give people some directions can at least give people some directions about how the church for literally about how the church for literally about how the church for literally millennia plus has dealt with uh faith millennia plus has dealt with uh faith millennia plus has dealt with uh faith as it concerns science especially with as it concerns science especially with as it concerns science especially with the scriptures. Yeah. I've been visiting the scriptures. Yeah. I've been visiting the scriptures. Yeah. I've been visiting a lot of small groups from 517 and we've a lot of small groups from 517 and we've a lot of small groups from 517 and we've talked about you know this upcoming talked about you know this upcoming talked about you know this upcoming series now for a month or so and uh it's series now for a month or so and uh it's series now for a month or so and uh it's been interesting. Almost every group I been interesting. Almost every group I been interesting. Almost every group I go to, people want to start asking go to, people want to start asking go to, people want to start asking questions about science and dinosaurs. questions about science and dinosaurs. questions about science and dinosaurs. And even one group wanted to know like And even one group wanted to know like And even one group wanted to know like what do we think about aliens because, what do we think about aliens because, what do we think about aliens because, you know, all that's on the mind. And you know, all that's on the mind. And you know, all that's on the mind. And >> when we're talking about the creation of >> when we're talking about the creation of >> when we're talking about the creation of the universe the universe the universe >> and the one who is responsible for it. >> and the one who is responsible for it. >> and the one who is responsible for it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We live in a world where these >> Yeah. We live in a world where these >> Yeah. We live in a world where these questions matter. They not only do they questions matter. They not only do they questions matter. They not only do they matter and I I I hopefully I think this matter and I I I hopefully I think this matter and I I I hopefully I think this podcast hopefully be back and forth podcast hopefully be back and forth podcast hopefully be back and forth because I think you have uh as much if because I think you have uh as much if because I think you have uh as much if not more to say about this topic than I not more to say about this topic than I not more to say about this topic than I do. But the reason it's important uh uh do. But the reason it's important uh uh do. But the reason it's important uh uh for a lot of people, not the least of for a lot of people, not the least of for a lot of people, not the least of which um are believers who who grow up which um are believers who who grow up which um are believers who who grow up in a church and then you go off to in a church and then you go off to in a church and then you go off to college and you hear so many different college and you hear so many different college and you hear so many different things in college uh about science that things in college uh about science that things in college uh about science that if you if you grew up in a certain if you if you grew up in a certain if you if you grew up in a certain tradition uh in in one of the Christian tradition uh in in one of the Christian tradition uh in in one of the Christian branches, maybe even the more branches, maybe even the more branches, maybe even the more traditional or fundamentalist, you're traditional or fundamentalist, you're traditional or fundamentalist, you're just going to be unaware and unequipped just going to be unaware and unequipped just going to be unaware and unequipped and really blown away. I I was uh you and really blown away. I I was uh you and really blown away. I I was uh you and I years ago were at a conference on and I years ago were at a conference on and I years ago were at a conference on faith and science and one of the

faith and science and one of the faith and science and one of the speakers made the note that the number speakers made the note that the number speakers made the note that the number one reason that that college students one reason that that college students one reason that that college students leave the faith is because of uh how uh leave the faith is because of uh how uh leave the faith is because of uh how uh they believe science and faith are they believe science and faith are they believe science and faith are incompatible. And so when they they get incompatible. And so when they they get incompatible. And so when they they get around some professors that know what around some professors that know what around some professors that know what they're talking about, uh those kind of they're talking about, uh those kind of they're talking about, uh those kind of Christians, they get blown out of the Christians, they get blown out of the Christians, they get blown out of the water and they uh you know, statistics water and they uh you know, statistics water and they uh you know, statistics are are upwards of 70% of people who are are upwards of 70% of people who are are upwards of 70% of people who lose their faith in college do so lose their faith in college do so lose their faith in college do so because of science. And so it's it's because of science. And so it's it's because of science. And so it's it's those kinds of things that just uh break those kinds of things that just uh break those kinds of things that just uh break our collective's heart. Our collective our collective's heart. Our collective our collective's heart. Our collective hearts I mean we live in a science hearts I mean we live in a science hearts I mean we live in a science world. We're on the backyard of NASA. world. We're on the backyard of NASA. world. We're on the backyard of NASA. >> And so um man, I'm I'm excited to talk >> And so um man, I'm I'm excited to talk >> And so um man, I'm I'm excited to talk about while that why it doesn't have to about while that why it doesn't have to about while that why it doesn't have to be the case that you don't have to give be the case that you don't have to give be the case that you don't have to give up your idea about faith or science. So up your idea about faith or science. So up your idea about faith or science. So >> yeah, I I've told this story a lot, but >> yeah, I I've told this story a lot, but >> yeah, I I've told this story a lot, but I grew up in a church with a very I grew up in a church with a very I grew up in a church with a very particular view of how to read Genesis particular view of how to read Genesis particular view of how to read Genesis and all that. And so I remember being in and all that. And so I remember being in and all that. And so I remember being in second grade and taking my own money to second grade and taking my own money to second grade and taking my own money to the Scholastic book fair and I bought a the Scholastic book fair and I bought a the Scholastic book fair and I bought a book about dinosaurs and it like you book about dinosaurs and it like you book about dinosaurs and it like you open and you're reading about dinosaurs open and you're reading about dinosaurs open and you're reading about dinosaurs that lived a 100red million years ago that lived a 100red million years ago that lived a 100red million years ago and then at church I'm told well the and then at church I'm told well the and then at church I'm told well the earth is 6,000 years old and I I earth is 6,000 years old and I I earth is 6,000 years old and I I remember as like an elementary age kid remember as like an elementary age kid remember as like an elementary age kid thinking thinking thinking >> well someone's not right >> well someone's not right >> well someone's not right >> right >> right >> right >> and I don't think yeah I like wrestling >> and I don't think yeah I like wrestling >> and I don't think yeah I like wrestling with that from a young age what what do with that from a young age what what do with that from a young age what what do we do with that? What kid, what kid, by we do with that? What kid, what kid, by we do with that? What kid, what kid, by the way, what kid doesn't go to What?

the way, what kid doesn't go to What? the way, what kid doesn't go to What? What? At least boy, I'll speak for me. What? At least boy, I'll speak for me. What? At least boy, I'll speak for me. What? What boy doesn't go to the What? What boy doesn't go to the What? What boy doesn't go to the Scholastic book fair and not buy a book Scholastic book fair and not buy a book Scholastic book fair and not buy a book on dinosaurs? I mean, I had one. on dinosaurs? I mean, I had one. on dinosaurs? I mean, I had one. Everyone did. So, um, yeah, these are Everyone did. So, um, yeah, these are Everyone did. So, um, yeah, these are the questions that we've had ever since the questions that we've had ever since the questions that we've had ever since we were little kids. And so, um, you we were little kids. And so, um, you we were little kids. And so, um, you know, one of the things that you've know, one of the things that you've know, one of the things that you've actually done in the past, you taught on actually done in the past, you taught on actually done in the past, you taught on this, uh, a few years ago, and you this, uh, a few years ago, and you this, uh, a few years ago, and you highlighted, um, what the Bible says, highlighted, um, what the Bible says, highlighted, um, what the Bible says, let's just jump right on in. What the let's just jump right on in. What the let's just jump right on in. What the Bible says in in different places, not Bible says in in different places, not Bible says in in different places, not the least of which is Psalm 19. Yep. And the least of which is Psalm 19. Yep. And the least of which is Psalm 19. Yep. And uh if I could, let's just read Psalm 19. uh if I could, let's just read Psalm 19. uh if I could, let's just read Psalm 19. I'll let you kind of uh I I'll try to I'll let you kind of uh I I'll try to I'll let you kind of uh I I'll try to just explain a little bit. I pulled it just explain a little bit. I pulled it just explain a little bit. I pulled it up here uh on my my trusty computer uh up here uh on my my trusty computer uh up here uh on my my trusty computer uh so we can walk through some of this so we can walk through some of this so we can walk through some of this where we can uh get a little bit of where we can uh get a little bit of where we can uh get a little bit of sense of of of how God sees the world sense of of of how God sees the world sense of of of how God sees the world that he's created and maybe uh what that that he's created and maybe uh what that that he's created and maybe uh what that means for us. So uh Psalm uh 19, pardon means for us. So uh Psalm uh 19, pardon means for us. So uh Psalm uh 19, pardon me, me, me, I'll start in verse one. We're just I'll start in verse one. We're just I'll start in verse one. We're just going to read to like verse six, but going to read to like verse six, but going to read to like verse six, but I'll I'll break some of this down and I'll I'll break some of this down and I'll I'll break some of this down and then uh Lance has a really helpful way. then uh Lance has a really helpful way. then uh Lance has a really helpful way. In the past, he's talked about um kind In the past, he's talked about um kind In the past, he's talked about um kind of a a schema of how to think through of a a schema of how to think through of a a schema of how to think through this, but let me first just read this this, but let me first just read this this, but let me first just read this text. Psalm 19 1-6 says this verse one, text. Psalm 19 1-6 says this verse one, text. Psalm 19 1-6 says this verse one, "The heavens declare the glory of God "The heavens declare the glory of God "The heavens declare the glory of God and the sky proclaims his handiwork."

and the sky proclaims his handiwork." and the sky proclaims his handiwork." And so, so right off the bat, if we just And so, so right off the bat, if we just And so, so right off the bat, if we just stopped with that one verse, the word stopped with that one verse, the word stopped with that one verse, the word sky in Hebrew is the word shamayim, sky in Hebrew is the word shamayim, sky in Hebrew is the word shamayim, which means more than just, you know, which means more than just, you know, which means more than just, you know, the oxygen or the atmosphere around us. the oxygen or the atmosphere around us. the oxygen or the atmosphere around us. It's really everything above us. It's It's really everything above us. It's It's really everything above us. It's not just the birds uh and the clouds. not just the birds uh and the clouds. not just the birds uh and the clouds. It's the sun, the moon, the stars. It's It's the sun, the moon, the stars. It's It's the sun, the moon, the stars. It's the whole cosmos. And so uh right off the whole cosmos. And so uh right off the whole cosmos. And so uh right off the bat, God says, or the psalmist says the bat, God says, or the psalmist says the bat, God says, or the psalmist says uh that that space, the cosmos, it all uh that that space, the cosmos, it all uh that that space, the cosmos, it all declares that God's been a part of this. declares that God's been a part of this. declares that God's been a part of this. Not only a part of it, it's his Not only a part of it, it's his Not only a part of it, it's his handiwork. It's what he's done. And it handiwork. It's what he's done. And it handiwork. It's what he's done. And it continues to say, "Day to day pours out continues to say, "Day to day pours out continues to say, "Day to day pours out speech. speech. speech. >> Night to night reveals knowledge. >> Night to night reveals knowledge. >> Night to night reveals knowledge. There's no speech, nor are their words, There's no speech, nor are their words, There's no speech, nor are their words, whose voice is not heard. Their voice whose voice is not heard. Their voice whose voice is not heard. Their voice goes out through all the earth. the goes out through all the earth. the goes out through all the earth. the words to the end of the world. And so words to the end of the world. And so words to the end of the world. And so every day uh it just seems like creation every day uh it just seems like creation every day uh it just seems like creation is testifying to its creator. And then is testifying to its creator. And then is testifying to its creator. And then finally using an example of the sun uh finally using an example of the sun uh finally using an example of the sun uh it says uh in them uh in the heavens uh it says uh in them uh in the heavens uh it says uh in them uh in the heavens uh he has God has set a tent for the sun he has God has set a tent for the sun he has God has set a tent for the sun which comes out like a bridegroom which comes out like a bridegroom which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber and like a strong leaving his chamber and like a strong leaving his chamber and like a strong man runs its course with joy. Its rising man runs its course with joy. Its rising man runs its course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the he excuse me the is from the end of the he excuse me the is from the end of the he excuse me the end of the heavens and its circuit to end of the heavens and its circuit to end of the heavens and its circuit to the end of them and there is nothing the end of them and there is nothing the end of them and there is nothing hidden from its heat. And so it's funny hidden from its heat. And so it's funny hidden from its heat. And so it's funny uh in in the ancient world like with the uh in in the ancient world like with the uh in in the ancient world like with the Samaritans and the Acadians, the son was Samaritans and the Acadians, the son was Samaritans and the Acadians, the son was a god, right? He was known as kind of a god, right? He was known as kind of a god, right? He was known as kind of the strong man. And when he came out, he the strong man. And when he came out, he the strong man. And when he came out, he he did whatever he wanted to do. And yet he did whatever he wanted to do. And yet he did whatever he wanted to do. And yet the psalmist just pictures the son as no the psalmist just pictures the son as no the psalmist just pictures the son as no god. It's just the son and it's doing god. It's just the son and it's doing god. It's just the son and it's doing whatever God has designed it to do. And whatever God has designed it to do. And whatever God has designed it to do. And that's kind of how this section ends. Uh that's kind of how this section ends. Uh that's kind of how this section ends. Uh verse 7 on start talking about the word

verse 7 on start talking about the word verse 7 on start talking about the word of God that we would know we we would of God that we would know we we would of God that we would know we we would just simply call the Bible. And so it just simply call the Bible. And so it just simply call the Bible. And so it seems like there's two books of God. So seems like there's two books of God. So seems like there's two books of God. So why don't you tell us a little bit more why don't you tell us a little bit more why don't you tell us a little bit more about that with Psalm 19? about that with Psalm 19? about that with Psalm 19? >> Yeah. How we've talked about this in the >> Yeah. How we've talked about this in the >> Yeah. How we've talked about this in the past there there are two books that God past there there are two books that God past there there are two books that God speaks to us from his word, the Bible, speaks to us from his word, the Bible, speaks to us from his word, the Bible, and his world. and his world. and his world. >> He's the author. And so when uh we know >> He's the author. And so when uh we know >> He's the author. And so when uh we know because he's the author, there's never because he's the author, there's never because he's the author, there's never conflict between his word and his world. conflict between his word and his world. conflict between his word and his world. However, a lot of us have experienced However, a lot of us have experienced However, a lot of us have experienced over time uh conflict between what we're over time uh conflict between what we're over time uh conflict between what we're told the word says and what we're told told the word says and what we're told told the word says and what we're told the world says. Right. the world says. Right. the world says. Right. >> I agree. And so the way we talk about it >> I agree. And so the way we talk about it >> I agree. And so the way we talk about it is well that's not really conflict is well that's not really conflict is well that's not really conflict between the word and the world. It's between the word and the world. It's between the word and the world. It's conflict between the way we interpret conflict between the way we interpret conflict between the way we interpret those things. So our interpretation of those things. So our interpretation of those things. So our interpretation of God's word we call hermeneutics God's word we call hermeneutics God's word we call hermeneutics >> and the interpretation of the world we >> and the interpretation of the world we >> and the interpretation of the world we know is science. know is science. know is science. >> And uh those are things we do. We're the >> And uh those are things we do. We're the >> And uh those are things we do. We're the author of hermeneutics and science. If author of hermeneutics and science. If author of hermeneutics and science. If there's ever conflict, it's there. It's there's ever conflict, it's there. It's there's ever conflict, it's there. It's in the way we interpret the truth uh of in the way we interpret the truth uh of in the way we interpret the truth uh of God's word and world where like we've God's word and world where like we've God's word and world where like we've said, there's no conflict. So, we want said, there's no conflict. So, we want said, there's no conflict. So, we want to push in all of our efforts to rightly to push in all of our efforts to rightly to push in all of our efforts to rightly understand God's word and to rightly understand God's word and to rightly understand God's word and to rightly understand his world through science understand his world through science understand his world through science because the world, as Psalm 19 says, because the world, as Psalm 19 says, because the world, as Psalm 19 says, speaks to God's handiwork. It we should speaks to God's handiwork. It we should speaks to God's handiwork. It we should we should love scientific endeavors we should love scientific endeavors we should love scientific endeavors because it it shows us the majesty of because it it shows us the majesty of because it it shows us the majesty of our creator.

our creator. our creator. >> Um, now there's not always good science. >> Um, now there's not always good science. >> Um, now there's not always good science. There's also not always good There's also not always good There's also not always good hermeneutics. hermeneutics. hermeneutics. >> I would agree with that. >> I would agree with that. >> I would agree with that. >> Yeah. So, so what you're saying if I >> Yeah. So, so what you're saying if I >> Yeah. So, so what you're saying if I could uh just summarize it, uh both could uh just summarize it, uh both could uh just summarize it, uh both talk, both are seeking after truth. The talk, both are seeking after truth. The talk, both are seeking after truth. The Bible is truth. Uh science is running Bible is truth. Uh science is running Bible is truth. Uh science is running after truth. But um as we approach the after truth. But um as we approach the after truth. But um as we approach the Bible, we come as interpreters. As Bible, we come as interpreters. As Bible, we come as interpreters. As scientists approach the world, they come scientists approach the world, they come scientists approach the world, they come as interpreters. And uh so there's a as interpreters. And uh so there's a as interpreters. And uh so there's a couple things could be at play. Uh we couple things could be at play. Uh we couple things could be at play. Uh we could read the Bible correctly and could read the Bible correctly and could read the Bible correctly and science interprets the world wrongly. Or science interprets the world wrongly. Or science interprets the world wrongly. Or we could read the Bible wrongly and we could read the Bible wrongly and we could read the Bible wrongly and science interprets the world correctly. science interprets the world correctly. science interprets the world correctly. or we both could interpret both the or we both could interpret both the or we both could interpret both the world and the word incorrectly. So world and the word incorrectly. So world and the word incorrectly. So there's a lot of things that could be at there's a lot of things that could be at there's a lot of things that could be at play, right? play, right? play, right? >> Yeah, that's right. And uh >> Yeah, that's right. And uh >> Yeah, that's right. And uh something uh something that we do something uh something that we do something uh something that we do sometimes is we use the wrong method of sometimes is we use the wrong method of sometimes is we use the wrong method of interpretation for the wrong book. Okay. interpretation for the wrong book. Okay. interpretation for the wrong book. Okay. So when we when we try to use science to So when we when we try to use science to So when we when we try to use science to interpret the word, interpret the word, interpret the word, >> it's the wrong tool. >> it's the wrong tool. >> it's the wrong tool. >> And when we try to use hermeneutics to >> And when we try to use hermeneutics to >> And when we try to use hermeneutics to interpret the world, it's the wrong interpret the world, it's the wrong interpret the world, it's the wrong tool. So sometimes the conflict comes tool. So sometimes the conflict comes tool. So sometimes the conflict comes when we're using the wrong tool for the when we're using the wrong tool for the when we're using the wrong tool for the wrong job.

wrong job. wrong job. >> Got it. So I think also what we're >> Got it. So I think also what we're >> Got it. So I think also what we're saying here is that um especially with saying here is that um especially with saying here is that um especially with Psalm 19 is that uh Clear Creek you, me, Psalm 19 is that uh Clear Creek you, me, Psalm 19 is that uh Clear Creek you, me, everybody here, the elders would say everybody here, the elders would say everybody here, the elders would say that the Bible is God's word from start that the Bible is God's word from start that the Bible is God's word from start to finish. It's fully inspired, fully to finish. It's fully inspired, fully to finish. It's fully inspired, fully authoritative, uh without error in the authoritative, uh without error in the authoritative, uh without error in the things that it speaks to. So we have I things that it speaks to. So we have I things that it speaks to. So we have I mean the highest view that we can have mean the highest view that we can have mean the highest view that we can have of the Bible. And yet at the same time, of the Bible. And yet at the same time, of the Bible. And yet at the same time, we'd also say that God created the world we'd also say that God created the world we'd also say that God created the world and however the world is, it's how God and however the world is, it's how God and however the world is, it's how God wanted it to be. And so we want to wanted it to be. And so we want to wanted it to be. And so we want to pursue both of those things. That's pursue both of those things. That's pursue both of those things. That's right. Okay. All right. Well, well, that right. Okay. All right. Well, well, that right. Okay. All right. Well, well, that kind of leads us in then to uh this kind of leads us in then to uh this kind of leads us in then to uh this whole Genesis study. Uh we've talked whole Genesis study. Uh we've talked whole Genesis study. Uh we've talked about about about um before in the past that I think would um before in the past that I think would um before in the past that I think would be helpful for people is that I think be helpful for people is that I think be helpful for people is that I think because of the advent of and I got to be because of the advent of and I got to be because of the advent of and I got to be careful with my terms here because I careful with my terms here because I careful with my terms here because I don't want uh let me define them. don't want uh let me define them. don't want uh let me define them. I'd probably say within the last 70 to I'd probably say within the last 70 to I'd probably say within the last 70 to 100 years, you have the advent of what's 100 years, you have the advent of what's 100 years, you have the advent of what's known as fundamentalism. known as fundamentalism. known as fundamentalism. Initially, when that started, it's a Initially, when that started, it's a Initially, when that started, it's a great thing. We want to talk about the great thing. We want to talk about the great thing. We want to talk about the fundamentals of the faith. But over fundamentals of the faith. But over fundamentals of the faith. But over time, the definition I think people time, the definition I think people time, the definition I think people would have today is this would have today is this would have today is this hyperconservative hyperconservative hyperconservative uh everything in the Bible is not only uh everything in the Bible is not only uh everything in the Bible is not only literal, all of it's essential. And if literal, all of it's essential. And if literal, all of it's essential. And if you don't agree with everything being you don't agree with everything being you don't agree with everything being literally interpreted, then not only do literally interpreted, then not only do literally interpreted, then not only do you not understand the Bible, you might you not understand the Bible, you might you not understand the Bible, you might not even be a Christian. And that's not even be a Christian. And that's not even be a Christian. And that's that's that's actually a unique position that's that's actually a unique position that's that's actually a unique position throughout church history, which you you throughout church history, which you you throughout church history, which you you really don't see throughout church really don't see throughout church really don't see throughout church history. And so I think a lot of people history. And so I think a lot of people history. And so I think a lot of people when they come to open up Genesis and when they come to open up Genesis and when they come to open up Genesis and they read it, they think, well, there's they read it, they think, well, there's they read it, they think, well, there's only one way to understand this uh these

only one way to understand this uh these only one way to understand this uh these two texts or rather these two chapters two texts or rather these two chapters two texts or rather these two chapters when the truth is as you if if you look when the truth is as you if if you look when the truth is as you if if you look out throughout church history, I mean out throughout church history, I mean out throughout church history, I mean even from the very beginning of like even from the very beginning of like even from the very beginning of like once the Bible closes and we have the once the Bible closes and we have the once the Bible closes and we have the second century and the third century and second century and the third century and second century and the third century and the fourth century and the fifth, like the fourth century and the fifth, like the fourth century and the fifth, like there's all kinds of different ways that there's all kinds of different ways that there's all kinds of different ways that people have interpreted the scripture uh people have interpreted the scripture uh people have interpreted the scripture uh the the Genesis account. And I I just I the the Genesis account. And I I just I the the Genesis account. And I I just I think it'd be helpful for our listeners think it'd be helpful for our listeners think it'd be helpful for our listeners uh to for us to go over the four major uh to for us to go over the four major uh to for us to go over the four major ones, right? ones, right? ones, right? >> Um the first one's the the one that >> Um the first one's the the one that >> Um the first one's the the one that everyone knows about or at least the one everyone knows about or at least the one everyone knows about or at least the one that I was raised on, maybe you were as that I was raised on, maybe you were as that I was raised on, maybe you were as well is the literal view. well is the literal view. well is the literal view. >> Um and so here's what I like to let me >> Um and so here's what I like to let me >> Um and so here's what I like to let me kind of just sketch out the literal view kind of just sketch out the literal view kind of just sketch out the literal view and you just jump in and tell me what and you just jump in and tell me what and you just jump in and tell me what you know kind of thoughts about it, pros you know kind of thoughts about it, pros you know kind of thoughts about it, pros and cons. Um, the literal one's the and cons. Um, the literal one's the and cons. Um, the literal one's the easiest one to do because it says the as easiest one to do because it says the as easiest one to do because it says the as far as the creation account, it takes far as the creation account, it takes far as the creation account, it takes the first six days of creation as a as a the first six days of creation as a as a the first six days of creation as a as a literal 24-hour periods, uh, they would literal 24-hour periods, uh, they would literal 24-hour periods, uh, they would say the word day just means the word say the word day just means the word say the word day just means the word day, and that's just how it is. Um, and day, and that's just how it is. Um, and day, and that's just how it is. Um, and because you have Adam and Eve and the because you have Adam and Eve and the because you have Adam and Eve and the genealogies that follow, they try to put genealogies that follow, they try to put genealogies that follow, they try to put all those together. They wouldn't see all those together. They wouldn't see all those together. They wouldn't see any gaps in the genealogy. We can get to any gaps in the genealogy. We can get to any gaps in the genealogy. We can get to that later on if we need to. Uh but that later on if we need to. Uh but that later on if we need to. Uh but because it's literal and chronologically because it's literal and chronologically because it's literal and chronologically sequential and tied to Adam and Eve and sequential and tied to Adam and Eve and sequential and tied to Adam and Eve and all the they they not only interpret the all the they they not only interpret the all the they they not only interpret the days as 24-hour days, they are on a days as 24-hour days, they are on a days as 24-hour days, they are on a timeline. And you've already mentioned timeline. And you've already mentioned timeline. And you've already mentioned kind of what that would be. Their kind of what that would be. Their kind of what that would be. Their timeline is is that the Earth can only timeline is is that the Earth can only timeline is is that the Earth can only be around 6,000 years old based on kind be around 6,000 years old based on kind be around 6,000 years old based on kind of reverse engineering what they of reverse engineering what they of reverse engineering what they perceive to be um kind of the

perceive to be um kind of the perceive to be um kind of the genealogies, if you will, all the way genealogies, if you will, all the way genealogies, if you will, all the way back to Adam. And so what are some back to Adam. And so what are some back to Adam. And so what are some challenges with that view? And again, uh challenges with that view? And again, uh challenges with that view? And again, uh I I would say from the right off the bat I I would say from the right off the bat I I would say from the right off the bat as we get into these because I don't as we get into these because I don't as we get into these because I don't want people to be um I don't want to be want people to be um I don't want to be want people to be um I don't want to be too disturbed. Uh Clear Creek, you can too disturbed. Uh Clear Creek, you can too disturbed. Uh Clear Creek, you can hold to any one of the views that we hold to any one of the views that we hold to any one of the views that we talk about. So we're not talk about. So we're not talk about. So we're not >> we have no dogma towards any one of >> we have no dogma towards any one of >> we have no dogma towards any one of these views. We we'll talk about kind of these views. We we'll talk about kind of these views. We we'll talk about kind of a view that the teaching team prefers. I a view that the teaching team prefers. I a view that the teaching team prefers. I mean, everyone has to have a position mean, everyone has to have a position mean, everyone has to have a position just like we did with Revelation. But just like we did with Revelation. But just like we did with Revelation. But let me just say from the very bat uh let me just say from the very bat uh let me just say from the very bat uh right off the bat at Clear Creek, you right off the bat at Clear Creek, you right off the bat at Clear Creek, you can hold on to of the four views we're can hold on to of the four views we're can hold on to of the four views we're going to mention, you can hold on to any going to mention, you can hold on to any going to mention, you can hold on to any one of those four and be in good one of those four and be in good one of those four and be in good standing with us. But we do want to talk standing with us. But we do want to talk standing with us. But we do want to talk about it because we do have a about it because we do have a about it because we do have a perspective on it. So um perspective on it. So um perspective on it. So um >> what are your first thoughts about uh >> what are your first thoughts about uh >> what are your first thoughts about uh literal the literal view? All right, literal the literal view? All right, literal the literal view? All right, it's all six 24-hour days. Earth is it's all six 24-hour days. Earth is it's all six 24-hour days. Earth is 6,000 years old. Uh what are some things 6,000 years old. Uh what are some things 6,000 years old. Uh what are some things that you would kind of talk about with that you would kind of talk about with that you would kind of talk about with that with that view? that with that view? that with that view? >> Yeah, the the ease of that view is you >> Yeah, the the ease of that view is you >> Yeah, the the ease of that view is you you read it and it's like, well, this is you read it and it's like, well, this is you read it and it's like, well, this is what it says, what it says, what it says, >> right? I mean, there it is. This is >> right? I mean, there it is. This is >> right? I mean, there it is. This is God's word. We we already said this is God's word. We we already said this is God's word. We we already said this is true. true. true. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh the challenge though is that what we >> Uh the challenge though is that what we >> Uh the challenge though is that what we literally read this to mean may not be literally read this to mean may not be literally read this to mean may not be what the original audience literally what the original audience literally what the original audience literally would have understood.

would have understood. would have understood. >> Uh and so this is where I think I've >> Uh and so this is where I think I've >> Uh and so this is where I think I've been challenged by the phrase I think it been challenged by the phrase I think it been challenged by the phrase I think it comes from John Walton. He says, "The comes from John Walton. He says, "The comes from John Walton. He says, "The Bible is for us but was not written to Bible is for us but was not written to Bible is for us but was not written to us." And and man, when you start getting us." And and man, when you start getting us." And and man, when you start getting into the the mind of the ancient reader, into the the mind of the ancient reader, into the the mind of the ancient reader, which what's fascinating to me is uh which what's fascinating to me is uh which what's fascinating to me is uh because of archaeology and just the the because of archaeology and just the the because of archaeology and just the the connectedness of the modern world and connectedness of the modern world and connectedness of the modern world and the way researchers and scholars can now the way researchers and scholars can now the way researchers and scholars can now share everything and learn together, we share everything and learn together, we share everything and learn together, we actually know more about the mind of the actually know more about the mind of the actually know more about the mind of the ancient person than was known 100 years ancient person than was known 100 years ancient person than was known 100 years ago, 200 years ago, a thousand years ago, 200 years ago, a thousand years ago, 200 years ago, a thousand years ago. Some of that is just lost with ago. Some of that is just lost with ago. Some of that is just lost with culture as it progresses. Yeah. culture as it progresses. Yeah. culture as it progresses. Yeah. >> So, we have learned more about ancient >> So, we have learned more about ancient >> So, we have learned more about ancient people and the way that they understood people and the way that they understood people and the way that they understood the cosmos. the cosmos. the cosmos. >> And so, I think when you when you begin >> And so, I think when you when you begin >> And so, I think when you when you begin to understand the ancient mind, you're to understand the ancient mind, you're to understand the ancient mind, you're challenged by our literal reading of challenged by our literal reading of challenged by our literal reading of Genesis 1 and 2. Yeah, I get that. So, Genesis 1 and 2. Yeah, I get that. So, Genesis 1 and 2. Yeah, I get that. So, what I hear you say is we we take a a what I hear you say is we we take a a what I hear you say is we we take a a modern way of interpreting a text. Uh, modern way of interpreting a text. Uh, modern way of interpreting a text. Uh, you know, we would read this like we you know, we would read this like we you know, we would read this like we were reading the newspaper when the were reading the newspaper when the were reading the newspaper when the ancients may not have had that same ancients may not have had that same ancients may not have had that same perspective. I I think also where the perspective. I I think also where the perspective. I I think also where the literal can get you in trouble and by by literal can get you in trouble and by by literal can get you in trouble and by by saying in trouble I don't mean you can't saying in trouble I don't mean you can't saying in trouble I don't mean you can't hold the view. Uh it's just going to be hold the view. Uh it's just going to be hold the view. Uh it's just going to be one of those things where everyone has one of those things where everyone has one of those things where everyone has challenges all these views and I think challenges all these views and I think challenges all these views and I think it would be unfair for us not to point it would be unfair for us not to point it would be unfair for us not to point them out for all of them. The challenge them out for all of them. The challenge them out for all of them. The challenge will be is that the earth just appears will be is that the earth just appears will be is that the earth just appears pretty darn old.

pretty darn old. pretty darn old. >> Uh it doesn't look like it's 6,000. Uh >> Uh it doesn't look like it's 6,000. Uh >> Uh it doesn't look like it's 6,000. Uh when you at least get into radiocarbon when you at least get into radiocarbon when you at least get into radiocarbon dating and all the other uh scientific dating and all the other uh scientific dating and all the other uh scientific metrics they use. Uh the fact that you metrics they use. Uh the fact that you metrics they use. Uh the fact that you have dinosaurs, I don't think anyone have dinosaurs, I don't think anyone have dinosaurs, I don't think anyone doubts dinosaurs. I think in the literal doubts dinosaurs. I think in the literal doubts dinosaurs. I think in the literal view, you have to have dinosaurs and man view, you have to have dinosaurs and man view, you have to have dinosaurs and man living together. It just seems like living together. It just seems like living together. It just seems like that's a stretch when um when we the that's a stretch when um when we the that's a stretch when um when we the gasoline we make is because we pumped gasoline we make is because we pumped gasoline we make is because we pumped oil out of the ground because that oil oil out of the ground because that oil oil out of the ground because that oil comes out of the ground deep deep deep comes out of the ground deep deep deep comes out of the ground deep deep deep in the ground because dinosaurs bones in the ground because dinosaurs bones in the ground because dinosaurs bones have been down there. And so I I I have been down there. And so I I I have been down there. And so I I I actually have had people who prefer the actually have had people who prefer the actually have had people who prefer the literal view that they just argue that literal view that they just argue that literal view that they just argue that the devil put those the devil put those the devil put those >> dinosaurs in the ground so that we >> dinosaurs in the ground so that we >> dinosaurs in the ground so that we wouldn't believe the Bible literally. wouldn't believe the Bible literally. wouldn't believe the Bible literally. And I that just I think for most And I that just I think for most And I that just I think for most sensible thinkers that feels like a sensible thinkers that feels like a sensible thinkers that feels like a bridge too far to cross, bridge too far to cross, bridge too far to cross, >> right? I also, >> right? I also, >> right? I also, you know, God in his power has created you know, God in his power has created you know, God in his power has created everything, but he's not a distant God. everything, but he's not a distant God. everything, but he's not a distant God. >> He's personal and I know him. Yeah. >> He's personal and I know him. Yeah. >> He's personal and I know him. Yeah. >> And so I want to be careful when I say >> And so I want to be careful when I say >> And so I want to be careful when I say what I'm about to say. But uh what I've what I'm about to say. But uh what I've what I'm about to say. But uh what I've come to know about him, I I'm ch I come to know about him, I I'm ch I come to know about him, I I'm ch I struggle to believe that that's how he struggle to believe that that's how he struggle to believe that that's how he he either made the world with dinosaur he either made the world with dinosaur he either made the world with dinosaur bones in it or allowed us to be bones in it or allowed us to be bones in it or allowed us to be confused. Like I again, we want to take confused. Like I again, we want to take confused. Like I again, we want to take want to believe the word is true first want to believe the word is true first want to believe the word is true first over my feelings, over my feelings, over my feelings, >> but it doesn't seem to match up with the >> but it doesn't seem to match up with the >> but it doesn't seem to match up with the character of God.

character of God. character of God. >> Yeah. And we could you can make the >> Yeah. And we could you can make the >> Yeah. And we could you can make the argument, which I think the literalists argument, which I think the literalists argument, which I think the literalists do, is that science is wrong on this do, is that science is wrong on this do, is that science is wrong on this one. They've interpreted incorrectly. one. They've interpreted incorrectly. one. They've interpreted incorrectly. fair game if they can prove that. fair game if they can prove that. fair game if they can prove that. >> Um, they just have a lot of questions. >> Um, they just have a lot of questions. >> Um, they just have a lot of questions. If you're a literalist, and I've been a If you're a literalist, and I've been a If you're a literalist, and I've been a literalist, uh, I am not one, but I have literalist, uh, I am not one, but I have literalist, uh, I am not one, but I have been, you're just going to have maybe been, you're just going to have maybe been, you're just going to have maybe the most challenges of all the four the most challenges of all the four the most challenges of all the four views. That's the most challenging view views. That's the most challenging view views. That's the most challenging view to hold if you have to deal with modern to hold if you have to deal with modern to hold if you have to deal with modern science. So, uh, with that being said, science. So, uh, with that being said, science. So, uh, with that being said, uh, let's I don't I don't want to get uh, let's I don't I don't want to get uh, let's I don't I don't want to get into like, you know, uh, Adam naming the into like, you know, uh, Adam naming the into like, you know, uh, Adam naming the animals. I mean, how many animals are animals. I mean, how many animals are animals. I mean, how many animals are there? Surely, it took more than 24 there? Surely, it took more than 24 there? Surely, it took more than 24 hours. I mean, we could do this all day hours. I mean, we could do this all day hours. I mean, we could do this all day long. I'm just saying they've got a lot long. I'm just saying they've got a lot long. I'm just saying they've got a lot of challenges. uh it is a legitimate of challenges. uh it is a legitimate of challenges. uh it is a legitimate view uh that Christians have held view uh that Christians have held view uh that Christians have held throughout this 2,000 years. Although throughout this 2,000 years. Although throughout this 2,000 years. Although it's not the only view. Let me give you it's not the only view. Let me give you it's not the only view. Let me give you another view. Uh this one uh was another view. Uh this one uh was another view. Uh this one uh was developed later on. It's it's not as developed later on. It's it's not as developed later on. It's it's not as it's not as ancient as the literalist it's not as ancient as the literalist it's not as ancient as the literalist view. It's called the gap view. Uh and view. It's called the gap view. Uh and view. It's called the gap view. Uh and I'll just explain what the gap view is. I'll just explain what the gap view is. I'll just explain what the gap view is. The gap view understands let me just The gap view understands let me just The gap view understands let me just read Genesis 1 and two and I'll I'll read Genesis 1 and two and I'll I'll read Genesis 1 and two and I'll I'll show you. It says in the beginning God show you. It says in the beginning God show you. It says in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. created the heavens and the earth. created the heavens and the earth. That's verse one. uh which most people That's verse one. uh which most people That's verse one. uh which most people take as the title to that section. Uh take as the title to that section. Uh take as the title to that section. Uh but the gap view does not take it as a but the gap view does not take it as a but the gap view does not take it as a title. They take that as that's that's title. They take that as that's that's title. They take that as that's that's the opening scene. And then verse two is the opening scene. And then verse two is the opening scene. And then verse two is is a scene somehow way later in the is a scene somehow way later in the is a scene somehow way later in the story. So let me just read it again.

story. So let me just read it again. story. So let me just read it again. Verse one, uh in the beginning God Verse one, uh in the beginning God Verse one, uh in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. created the heavens and the earth. created the heavens and the earth. There's a gap. And then verse two, the There's a gap. And then verse two, the There's a gap. And then verse two, the earth was uh was without form and void. earth was uh was without form and void. earth was uh was without form and void. Darkness was over the face of the deep Darkness was over the face of the deep Darkness was over the face of the deep and the spirit of God was hovering over and the spirit of God was hovering over and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Uh when you look the face of the waters. Uh when you look the face of the waters. Uh when you look at verse two just on its own, and we've at verse two just on its own, and we've at verse two just on its own, and we've noted this already in our series, it's noted this already in our series, it's noted this already in our series, it's seems rather disturbing that the seems rather disturbing that the seems rather disturbing that the universe is formless and void. Uh the universe is formless and void. Uh the universe is formless and void. Uh the earth is kind of messed up uh and that earth is kind of messed up uh and that earth is kind of messed up uh and that there's water somewhere around there. there's water somewhere around there. there's water somewhere around there. And uh before we we won't explain that And uh before we we won't explain that And uh before we we won't explain that until we get to uh our fourth view. Uh until we get to uh our fourth view. Uh until we get to uh our fourth view. Uh this view says well the reason that it this view says well the reason that it this view says well the reason that it has chaos in it is because verse one has chaos in it is because verse one has chaos in it is because verse one means God created it but something means God created it but something means God created it but something terrible tragic happened between verse terrible tragic happened between verse terrible tragic happened between verse one and verse two and that was the war one and verse two and that was the war one and verse two and that was the war with Satan with Satan with Satan >> and with the war with Satan it just >> and with the war with Satan it just >> and with the war with Satan it just destroyed everything and that's why we destroyed everything and that's why we destroyed everything and that's why we have what we have. So that that is a way have what we have. So that that is a way have what we have. So that that is a way that they explain it. And so it's an that they explain it. And so it's an that they explain it. And so it's an indeterminable amount of time uh in the indeterminable amount of time uh in the indeterminable amount of time uh in the gap between verses 1 and two. And so, gap between verses 1 and two. And so, gap between verses 1 and two. And so, uh, I kind of joke about it because I uh, I kind of joke about it because I uh, I kind of joke about it because I call it the junk drawer. And my friends call it the junk drawer. And my friends call it the junk drawer. And my friends who have been gap, uh, who believe in who have been gap, uh, who believe in who have been gap, uh, who believe in the gap theory, they joke about it as the gap theory, they joke about it as the gap theory, they joke about it as well. Yeah, man. Throw it in the gap.

well. Yeah, man. Throw it in the gap. well. Yeah, man. Throw it in the gap. And so, we're like, what do you do with And so, we're like, what do you do with And so, we're like, what do you do with the dinosaurs? the dinosaurs? the dinosaurs? >> Throw them in. >> Throw them in. >> Throw them in. >> Throw them in the gap. Uh, you know, >> Throw them in the gap. Uh, you know, >> Throw them in the gap. Uh, you know, what do we do with that? The earth what do we do with that? The earth what do we do with that? The earth appears millions of years or billions of appears millions of years or billions of appears millions of years or billions of years old. Throw it in the gap. What years old. Throw it in the gap. What years old. Throw it in the gap. What about the expanding? everything's in the about the expanding? everything's in the about the expanding? everything's in the gap because uh they can even be literal gap because uh they can even be literal gap because uh they can even be literal uh 24-hour day creationist on the back uh 24-hour day creationist on the back uh 24-hour day creationist on the back end because they said, "Yeah, maybe end because they said, "Yeah, maybe end because they said, "Yeah, maybe billions of years happened in the gap." billions of years happened in the gap." billions of years happened in the gap." And so, um the gap essentially was a And so, um the gap essentially was a And so, um the gap essentially was a response to all the scientific findings response to all the scientific findings response to all the scientific findings that we've had over the last two to 300 that we've had over the last two to 300 that we've had over the last two to 300 years uh that they just believed could years uh that they just believed could years uh that they just believed could not jive with the literalist not jive with the literalist not jive with the literalist interpretation. And so, uh, they, those interpretation. And so, uh, they, those interpretation. And so, uh, they, those that hold the gap view, which is really that hold the gap view, which is really that hold the gap view, which is really not a lot of people, but it's still not a lot of people, but it's still not a lot of people, but it's still around, uh, it's it's it really is a around, uh, it's it's it really is a around, uh, it's it's it really is a safety drawer for them because it allows safety drawer for them because it allows safety drawer for them because it allows them to acknowledge the literalness of them to acknowledge the literalness of them to acknowledge the literalness of Genesis and the science of it all. But, Genesis and the science of it all. But, Genesis and the science of it all. But, as you might imagine, um, there's some as you might imagine, um, there's some as you might imagine, um, there's some there's some problems with it. there's some problems with it. there's some problems with it. >> Yeah. Let Why don't you speak to you >> Yeah. Let Why don't you speak to you >> Yeah. Let Why don't you speak to you said the word chaos. said the word chaos. said the word chaos. >> Yeah. And that's going to come up now as >> Yeah. And that's going to come up now as >> Yeah. And that's going to come up now as we talk about the other views we talk about the other views we talk about the other views >> which was new for me growing up in a >> which was new for me growing up in a >> which was new for me growing up in a church where uh I heard literal like the church where uh I heard literal like the church where uh I heard literal like the teaching from a literal perspective teaching from a literal perspective teaching from a literal perspective because because because >> uh in the in the literal view at least >> uh in the in the literal view at least >> uh in the in the literal view at least as the way I was taught it creation is as the way I was taught it creation is as the way I was taught it creation is like a new car. It's new and shiny and like a new car. It's new and shiny and like a new car. It's new and shiny and perfect perfect perfect >> until page three. Right. Uh but all the >> until page three. Right. Uh but all the >> until page three. Right. Uh but all the other views in some form or fashion >> see chaos at the beginning at the >> see chaos at the beginning at the beginning of the story at least.

beginning of the story at least. beginning of the story at least. >> Why why why does chaos keep coming up? >> Why why why does chaos keep coming up? >> Why why why does chaos keep coming up? Because it took me a long time to wrap Because it took me a long time to wrap Because it took me a long time to wrap my mind around my mind around my mind around >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> chaos. >> chaos. >> chaos. >> Yeah. So where um >> Yeah. So where um >> Yeah. So where um we're like the I would say the gap we're like the I would say the gap we're like the I would say the gap theory is trying to figure out why is theory is trying to figure out why is theory is trying to figure out why is something chaotic. In the ancient world, something chaotic. In the ancient world, something chaotic. In the ancient world, that was not a big deal because all of that was not a big deal because all of that was not a big deal because all of their stories from the Enuma Alish uh their stories from the Enuma Alish uh their stories from the Enuma Alish uh which is a which is a pagan origin story which is a which is a pagan origin story which is a which is a pagan origin story that predates Genesis to other stories that predates Genesis to other stories that predates Genesis to other stories like the Samrians and Acadians and like the Samrians and Acadians and like the Samrians and Acadians and Babylonians, they all had in their Babylonians, they all had in their Babylonians, they all had in their origin stories, uh an idea in their origin stories, uh an idea in their origin stories, uh an idea in their worldview that was already embedded in worldview that was already embedded in worldview that was already embedded in them that the before anything existed, them that the before anything existed, them that the before anything existed, there was this there was chaos and chaos there was this there was chaos and chaos there was this there was chaos and chaos is the worst thing that you can have in is the worst thing that you can have in is the worst thing that you can have in the ancient world. the ancient world. the ancient world. uh you know just imagine it's the uh you know just imagine it's the uh you know just imagine it's the beginning of civilization and so uh beginning of civilization and so uh beginning of civilization and so uh order is what you're looking for not order is what you're looking for not order is what you're looking for not chaos and so chaos is essentially evil chaos and so chaos is essentially evil chaos and so chaos is essentially evil and so for them uh in their origin and so for them uh in their origin and so for them uh in their origin stories everything starts off with chaos stories everything starts off with chaos stories everything starts off with chaos everything is formless everything is everything is formless everything is everything is formless everything is void uh and in fact uh that chaos almost void uh and in fact uh that chaos almost void uh and in fact uh that chaos almost has not almost it's it's deified it's has not almost it's it's deified it's has not almost it's it's deified it's it's its own god that cannot be it's its own god that cannot be it's its own god that cannot be destroyed and that's why in these destroyed and that's why in these destroyed and that's why in these stories uh that predate date Genesis, stories uh that predate date Genesis, stories uh that predate date Genesis, it's always the gods fighting the chaos it's always the gods fighting the chaos it's always the gods fighting the chaos and however the gods win, that's how the and however the gods win, that's how the and however the gods win, that's how the creation is formed. That's just the creation is formed. That's just the creation is formed. That's just the world that the Israelites grew up in.

world that the Israelites grew up in. world that the Israelites grew up in. Now, we we kind of joked about, not Now, we we kind of joked about, not Now, we we kind of joked about, not joked, but we kind of played around with joked, but we kind of played around with joked, but we kind of played around with the idea that when they went to pagan the idea that when they went to pagan the idea that when they went to pagan Sunday school for how many of those Sunday school for how many of those Sunday school for how many of those centuries they were stuck in Egypt centuries they were stuck in Egypt centuries they were stuck in Egypt before Moses rescued them, uh they had before Moses rescued them, uh they had before Moses rescued them, uh they had to learn those kind of what we call to learn those kind of what we call to learn those kind of what we call cosmologies, the origins of the universe cosmologies, the origins of the universe cosmologies, the origins of the universe and how the universe exists. and they and how the universe exists. and they and how the universe exists. and they all were taught, hey, there's this all were taught, hey, there's this all were taught, hey, there's this there's this chaos. And so for the there's this chaos. And so for the there's this chaos. And so for the ancients, uh, chaos was the worst thing. ancients, uh, chaos was the worst thing. ancients, uh, chaos was the worst thing. And that's why Genesis 1, when you read And that's why Genesis 1, when you read And that's why Genesis 1, when you read it, it doesn't open up with nothing. it, it doesn't open up with nothing. it, it doesn't open up with nothing. Now, we we know as Christians and we Now, we we know as Christians and we Now, we we know as Christians and we read the New Testament, we know that the read the New Testament, we know that the read the New Testament, we know that the God created everything as we would say God created everything as we would say God created everything as we would say ex nolo, which is a a famous phrase that ex nolo, which is a a famous phrase that ex nolo, which is a a famous phrase that says God created everything out of says God created everything out of says God created everything out of nothing. We know we know, if you will, nothing. We know we know, if you will, nothing. We know we know, if you will, realistically he did because there's realistically he did because there's realistically he did because there's nothing that can predate the Lord. Uh, nothing that can predate the Lord. Uh, nothing that can predate the Lord. Uh, God exists in and of himself. God exists in and of himself. God exists in and of himself. But Genesis 1's not telling that story. But Genesis 1's not telling that story. But Genesis 1's not telling that story. It's not trying to tell a scientific It's not trying to tell a scientific It's not trying to tell a scientific story. It's not saying, "Well, there's story. It's not saying, "Well, there's story. It's not saying, "Well, there's this big bane and bang and Adams do this big bane and bang and Adams do this big bane and bang and Adams do this." It's trying to tell us like it's this." It's trying to tell us like it's this." It's trying to tell us like it's it's using the stories they grew up in it's using the stories they grew up in it's using the stories they grew up in and subverting them. Yep. and subverting them. Yep. and subverting them. Yep. >> And so, u that's why when you get to >> And so, u that's why when you get to >> And so, u that's why when you get to Revelation, speaking of chaos, uh it Revelation, speaking of chaos, uh it Revelation, speaking of chaos, uh it says that John says in his in his vision says that John says in his in his vision says that John says in his in his vision of the new heavens and the new earth as of the new heavens and the new earth as of the new heavens and the new earth as Jerusalem, the new Jerusalem comes down, Jerusalem, the new Jerusalem comes down, Jerusalem, the new Jerusalem comes down, he says, "And uh the sea was no more."

he says, "And uh the sea was no more." he says, "And uh the sea was no more." And people like, "Oh my gosh, the sea, And people like, "Oh my gosh, the sea, And people like, "Oh my gosh, the sea, there's no more. I can't go fishing in there's no more. I can't go fishing in there's no more. I can't go fishing in the New Kingdom. That wasn't the point. the New Kingdom. That wasn't the point. the New Kingdom. That wasn't the point. He was trying to make a theological He was trying to make a theological He was trying to make a theological statement saying, uh, the ocean, the statement saying, uh, the ocean, the statement saying, uh, the ocean, the sea, the waters, the chaos is gone. And sea, the waters, the chaos is gone. And sea, the waters, the chaos is gone. And so, but it's it's hard to read the Bible so, but it's it's hard to read the Bible so, but it's it's hard to read the Bible if you don't if you don't know how they if you don't if you don't know how they if you don't if you don't know how they understood those kinds of things. And understood those kinds of things. And understood those kinds of things. And so, uh, I think the gap view, uh, that's so, uh, I think the gap view, uh, that's so, uh, I think the gap view, uh, that's the that's the biggest well, the biggest the that's the biggest well, the biggest the that's the biggest well, the biggest problem is they throw a whole lot of problem is they throw a whole lot of problem is they throw a whole lot of assumption between two verses and we've assumption between two verses and we've assumption between two verses and we've ne we never hear about it anywhere else ne we never hear about it anywhere else ne we never hear about it anywhere else in the Bible. Um, so, uh, I don't know in the Bible. Um, so, uh, I don't know in the Bible. Um, so, uh, I don't know if you want to throw anything more down if you want to throw anything more down if you want to throw anything more down on that. Yeah, I that that leads us to, on that. Yeah, I that that leads us to, on that. Yeah, I that that leads us to, so, so there's kind of like three so, so there's kind of like three so, so there's kind of like three iterations before we get to kind of the iterations before we get to kind of the iterations before we get to kind of the view that I'd say that the Clear Creek view that I'd say that the Clear Creek view that I'd say that the Clear Creek teachers tend to feel most comfortable teachers tend to feel most comfortable teachers tend to feel most comfortable with. So, we have literal, uh, we have with. So, we have literal, uh, we have with. So, we have literal, uh, we have GAP, and then what we have now is the GAP, and then what we have now is the GAP, and then what we have now is the day age theory that comes up. And the day age theory that comes up. And the day age theory that comes up. And the day age theory has actually been around day age theory has actually been around day age theory has actually been around almost from the beginning where uh, the almost from the beginning where uh, the almost from the beginning where uh, the the days of the week aren't 24-hour the days of the week aren't 24-hour the days of the week aren't 24-hour days, they're long periods of time. It's days, they're long periods of time. It's days, they're long periods of time. It's it's amazing to me even the ancients it's amazing to me even the ancients it's amazing to me even the ancients recognized that uh the world seemed much recognized that uh the world seemed much recognized that uh the world seemed much older than 6,000 years. I mean we're older than 6,000 years. I mean we're older than 6,000 years. I mean we're talking not just pagans but Christians talking not just pagans but Christians talking not just pagans but Christians and the day age uh theory says or the and the day age uh theory says or the and the day age uh theory says or the view I should say is that each day view I should say is that each day view I should say is that each day represents uh a long period of time. Uh represents uh a long period of time. Uh represents uh a long period of time. Uh so you can get a an old earth uh which so you can get a an old earth uh which so you can get a an old earth uh which the young uh which the literalists the young uh which the literalists the young uh which the literalists usually don't believe but you can have usually don't believe but you can have usually don't believe but you can have an old earth in the day age view. Uh the an old earth in the day age view. Uh the an old earth in the day age view. Uh the once again the challenge with the day once again the challenge with the day once again the challenge with the day age is that it it it doesn't seem to age is that it it it doesn't seem to age is that it it it doesn't seem to harmonize with uh what we understand

harmonize with uh what we understand harmonize with uh what we understand about the world. Um you know it says about the world. Um you know it says about the world. Um you know it says that but that but that but >> uh that fruit trees be uh you know if >> uh that fruit trees be uh you know if >> uh that fruit trees be uh you know if you look at the creation order account you look at the creation order account you look at the creation order account it says that the fruit trees came up on it says that the fruit trees came up on it says that the fruit trees came up on this day this day this day >> and fish and birds came up on this day >> and fish and birds came up on this day >> and fish and birds came up on this day which is four right? I mean five six which is four right? I mean five six which is four right? I mean five six something around there. Five. I think something around there. Five. I think something around there. Five. I think it's five is that they came later. Yeah. it's five is that they came later. Yeah. it's five is that they came later. Yeah. But scientifically, I mean, it's it's But scientifically, I mean, it's it's But scientifically, I mean, it's it's they all say that that's how they they all say that that's how they they all say that that's how they actually appeared in in in our history actually appeared in in in our history actually appeared in in in our history is that birds and fishes were around is that birds and fishes were around is that birds and fishes were around before fruit bearing trees were. And so before fruit bearing trees were. And so before fruit bearing trees were. And so now you can argue about all that stuff, now you can argue about all that stuff, now you can argue about all that stuff, but when you have a scientist that that but when you have a scientist that that but when you have a scientist that that kind of understands how the world has kind of understands how the world has kind of understands how the world has been put together and has data to back been put together and has data to back been put together and has data to back it up, they look at the day age theory it up, they look at the day age theory it up, they look at the day age theory and go, "Well, it's it's close. It's and go, "Well, it's it's close. It's and go, "Well, it's it's close. It's just it's just not accurate enough." And just it's just not accurate enough." And just it's just not accurate enough." And so I would just say this, and you can so I would just say this, and you can so I would just say this, and you can comment on this, Lance. Each of these comment on this, Lance. Each of these comment on this, Lance. Each of these theories that we've talked about, or I theories that we've talked about, or I theories that we've talked about, or I should say views, uh they're all what should say views, uh they're all what should say views, uh they're all what are called concordist theories. They all are called concordist theories. They all are called concordist theories. They all want to try to uh have the Bible speak want to try to uh have the Bible speak want to try to uh have the Bible speak authoritatively to science as well. authoritatively to science as well. authoritatively to science as well. >> Y >> Y >> Y >> and um I think that's where we get in a >> and um I think that's where we get in a >> and um I think that's where we get in a little bit of trouble. So let let me do little bit of trouble. So let let me do little bit of trouble. So let let me do this. Uh let me give you the fourth this. Uh let me give you the fourth this. Uh let me give you the fourth view. And the fourth view is where I view. And the fourth view is where I view. And the fourth view is where I think Lance and I want to speak a little think Lance and I want to speak a little think Lance and I want to speak a little bit longer. Uh it's probably a view that bit longer. Uh it's probably a view that bit longer. Uh it's probably a view that most people who grew up in more most people who grew up in more most people who grew up in more conservative fundamentalist uh churches, conservative fundamentalist uh churches, conservative fundamentalist uh churches, God bless them, um like I did, uh they God bless them, um like I did, uh they God bless them, um like I did, uh they they only heard the literal view. And so they only heard the literal view. And so they only heard the literal view. And so this view is new to them. Here's what this view is new to them. Here's what this view is new to them. Here's what you have to understand. This view is not you have to understand. This view is not you have to understand. This view is not only not new, it's been around from the only not new, it's been around from the only not new, it's been around from the very beginning. Uh people like St.

very beginning. Uh people like St. very beginning. Uh people like St. Augustine in the 4th century held to Augustine in the 4th century held to Augustine in the 4th century held to this view. Origin held to a similar this view. Origin held to a similar this view. Origin held to a similar view. There's there's a lot of them that view. There's there's a lot of them that view. There's there's a lot of them that would hold on to this view. And it's would hold on to this view. And it's would hold on to this view. And it's called uh the literary framework view. called uh the literary framework view. called uh the literary framework view. And the idea is um that they're And the idea is um that they're And the idea is um that they're interpreting the Bible uh Genesis 1 and interpreting the Bible uh Genesis 1 and interpreting the Bible uh Genesis 1 and two specifically, but I I go all the way two specifically, but I I go all the way two specifically, but I I go all the way through Genesis 11 as well. Uh that the through Genesis 11 as well. Uh that the through Genesis 11 as well. Uh that the Bible's not trying to give us a modern Bible's not trying to give us a modern Bible's not trying to give us a modern accounting of 21st century science. It's accounting of 21st century science. It's accounting of 21st century science. It's trying to tell us uh it's trying to tell trying to tell us uh it's trying to tell trying to tell us uh it's trying to tell the original readers, ancient Israel, uh the original readers, ancient Israel, uh the original readers, ancient Israel, uh the story of who God is and why he's the story of who God is and why he's the story of who God is and why he's doing what he's doing to accomplish the doing what he's doing to accomplish the doing what he's doing to accomplish the things in the world that he wants to do. things in the world that he wants to do. things in the world that he wants to do. uh in a way that the original hearers uh in a way that the original hearers uh in a way that the original hearers could could hear that. You know, you could could hear that. You know, you could could hear that. You know, you talk about the cultural river. They're talk about the cultural river. They're talk about the cultural river. They're in their cultural river. And so God's in their cultural river. And so God's in their cultural river. And so God's going to write a story using uh the going to write a story using uh the going to write a story using uh the terms, ideas, and worldview in their terms, ideas, and worldview in their terms, ideas, and worldview in their cultural river and to just just subvert cultural river and to just just subvert cultural river and to just just subvert it. Uh so, but they could understand it. Uh so, but they could understand it. Uh so, but they could understand what's going on. And so, for example, a what's going on. And so, for example, a what's going on. And so, for example, a literal framework guy would say like, literal framework guy would say like, literal framework guy would say like, "Oh, yeah. I see days 1, 2, and three, "Oh, yeah. I see days 1, 2, and three, "Oh, yeah. I see days 1, 2, and three, the forming of the universe where God's the forming of the universe where God's the forming of the universe where God's dealing with the to waboo. You know, we dealing with the to waboo. You know, we dealing with the to waboo. You know, we talked about the formless and void. He's talked about the formless and void. He's talked about the formless and void. He's dealing with he's dealing with the dealing with he's dealing with the dealing with he's dealing with the formlessness in the first three days and formlessness in the first three days and formlessness in the first three days and he's dealing with in the next three days he's dealing with in the next three days he's dealing with in the next three days he's dealing with the voidness of it. He he's dealing with the voidness of it. He he's dealing with the voidness of it. He fills it fills it fills it >> and it's just it's just parallel. I mean >> and it's just it's just parallel. I mean >> and it's just it's just parallel. I mean it's it's obvious if you put it out it's it's obvious if you put it out it's it's obvious if you put it out there that there's that feels like a there that there's that feels like a there that there's that feels like a literary parallelism and it's incredibly literary parallelism and it's incredibly literary parallelism and it's incredibly important. Uh where the framework uh important. Uh where the framework uh important. Uh where the framework uh view uh kind of stands alone to the view uh kind of stands alone to the view uh kind of stands alone to the others is that it's a um it's it's what others is that it's a um it's it's what others is that it's a um it's it's what we would call a non-concordist

we would call a non-concordist we would call a non-concordist uh view. In other words, it's not trying uh view. In other words, it's not trying uh view. In other words, it's not trying to match up science, how we understand to match up science, how we understand to match up science, how we understand the world, uh, with how we understand the world, uh, with how we understand the world, uh, with how we understand Genesis because it would hold they're Genesis because it would hold they're Genesis because it would hold they're they're trying to do two different they're trying to do two different they're trying to do two different things. So, I'm going to leave that as things. So, I'm going to leave that as things. So, I'm going to leave that as that and we can talk more about, uh, why that and we can talk more about, uh, why that and we can talk more about, uh, why that has been maybe uh, something for that has been maybe uh, something for that has been maybe uh, something for actually a long time that the teaching actually a long time that the teaching actually a long time that the teaching team has been kind of our preferential team has been kind of our preferential team has been kind of our preferential view. Yeah, we because when we we view. Yeah, we because when we we view. Yeah, we because when we we understand the mind of the ancient understand the mind of the ancient understand the mind of the ancient person and read the Bible, it seems as person and read the Bible, it seems as person and read the Bible, it seems as though God is accommodating to their though God is accommodating to their though God is accommodating to their understanding of the cosmos. understanding of the cosmos. understanding of the cosmos. >> So when you say accommodating, what does >> So when you say accommodating, what does >> So when you say accommodating, what does that mean? that mean? that mean? >> He's he's not trying to correct their >> He's he's not trying to correct their >> He's he's not trying to correct their physics. He's not trying to correct what physics. He's not trying to correct what physics. He's not trying to correct what they believe about the sky and that it's they believe about the sky and that it's they believe about the sky and that it's not a solid structure. There's not a not a solid structure. There's not a not a solid structure. There's not a dome up there holding waters back dome up there holding waters back dome up there holding waters back because they didn't understand because they didn't understand because they didn't understand atmosphere. atmosphere. atmosphere. um they didn't understand light is um they didn't understand light is um they didn't understand light is actually particles like they had just actually particles like they had just actually particles like they had just their their understanding of the way their their understanding of the way their their understanding of the way everything was and God didn't try to fix everything was and God didn't try to fix everything was and God didn't try to fix that. So if Genesis 1:1 said in the that. So if Genesis 1:1 said in the that. So if Genesis 1:1 said in the beginning God created the heavens and beginning God created the heavens and beginning God created the heavens and the earth and verse two says and there's the earth and verse two says and there's the earth and verse two says and there's these things called atoms right these things called atoms right these things called atoms right >> and by the way there's this idea called >> and by the way there's this idea called >> and by the way there's this idea called string theory and there's this thing string theory and there's this thing string theory and there's this thing called big bang but like the ancients called big bang but like the ancients called big bang but like the ancients would not have known a clue about what would not have known a clue about what would not have known a clue about what he was talking okay no and he was talking okay no and he was talking okay no and >> uh and even like when it says God >> uh and even like when it says God >> uh and even like when it says God created the heavens and the earth when created the heavens and the earth when created the heavens and the earth when we hear that we have a very specific we hear that we have a very specific we hear that we have a very specific thing that comes to mind when earth thing that comes to mind when earth thing that comes to mind when earth shows up on this page because our whole shows up on this page because our whole shows up on this page because our whole lives we've grown up with a picture of lives we've grown up with a picture of lives we've grown up with a picture of the the blue marble floating in the the the blue marble floating in the the the blue marble floating in the vastness of space.

vastness of space. vastness of space. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And ancient people had no concept. >> And ancient people had no concept. >> And ancient people had no concept. >> They would know what that is of a globe >> They would know what that is of a globe >> They would know what that is of a globe in outer space in outer space in outer space >> uh being drawn uh in orbit around the >> uh being drawn uh in orbit around the >> uh being drawn uh in orbit around the sun because of gravity. Like they sun because of gravity. Like they sun because of gravity. Like they >> they didn't know any of that. And so >> they didn't know any of that. And so >> they didn't know any of that. And so >> it's our our conviction uh the way we >> it's our our conviction uh the way we >> it's our our conviction uh the way we read and understand and even teach that read and understand and even teach that read and understand and even teach that God isn't correcting their physics. God isn't correcting their physics. God isn't correcting their physics. >> He's he's speaking to them in ways that >> He's he's speaking to them in ways that >> He's he's speaking to them in ways that they would have understood. Uh, so we they would have understood. Uh, so we they would have understood. Uh, so we need to put our minds into their headsp need to put our minds into their headsp need to put our minds into their headsp space. space. space. >> So you're saying that God's just a >> So you're saying that God's just a >> So you're saying that God's just a really good missionary? really good missionary? really good missionary? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, yes. He He's just a really or >> I mean, yes. He He's just a really or >> I mean, yes. He He's just a really or he's just a really good dad working with he's just a really good dad working with he's just a really good dad working with a three-year-old, a three-year-old, a three-year-old, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Right. So like we all uh this this >> Right. So like we all uh this this >> Right. So like we all uh this this term's not it sounds negative and term's not it sounds negative and term's not it sounds negative and generally we use it as such, but God generally we use it as such, but God generally we use it as such, but God condescends. condescends. condescends. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You know, he descends with us to our >> You know, he descends with us to our >> You know, he descends with us to our level to teach us something, a true level to teach us something, a true level to teach us something, a true thing, but in a way that we could thing, but in a way that we could thing, but in a way that we could understand it. That's exactly what God understand it. That's exactly what God understand it. That's exactly what God is doing with the Israelites in Genesis is doing with the Israelites in Genesis is doing with the Israelites in Genesis 1 and 10. That's 1 and 10. That's 1 and 10. That's >> right. And and you could even argue uh 3 >> right. And and you could even argue uh 3 >> right. And and you could even argue uh 3 4 5 6 all the way to 11 actually all the 4 5 6 all the way to 11 actually all the 4 5 6 all the way to 11 actually all the way throughout the rest of the Bible way throughout the rest of the Bible way throughout the rest of the Bible because God's an accommodating God.

because God's an accommodating God. because God's an accommodating God. Sends us Jesus, right? He accommodates Sends us Jesus, right? He accommodates Sends us Jesus, right? He accommodates comes in the person of his own son. So comes in the person of his own son. So comes in the person of his own son. So um so let me tell you this what why um um so let me tell you this what why um um so let me tell you this what why um how can that help us uh throughout this how can that help us uh throughout this how can that help us uh throughout this view and maybe we can articulate a view and maybe we can articulate a view and maybe we can articulate a little bit more about um how the little bit more about um how the little bit more about um how the literary framework view uh makes best literary framework view uh makes best literary framework view uh makes best sense of Genesis because I've I've also sense of Genesis because I've I've also sense of Genesis because I've I've also read um that uh Old Testament scholars read um that uh Old Testament scholars read um that uh Old Testament scholars because we've just learned so much more because we've just learned so much more because we've just learned so much more about the the ancient world uh that about the the ancient world uh that about the the ancient world uh that there's even something about the the there's even something about the the there's even something about the the number of days in Genesis being seven number of days in Genesis being seven number of days in Genesis being seven that has to do with um that has to do with um that has to do with um >> a a king coming into his palace or a god >> a a king coming into his palace or a god >> a a king coming into his palace or a god coming into his temple that inaugurates coming into his temple that inaugurates coming into his temple that inaugurates that. Can you can you expand on that? that. Can you can you expand on that? that. Can you can you expand on that? >> Before I do, I want to say one thing >> Before I do, I want to say one thing >> Before I do, I want to say one thing that came to mind while you were talking that came to mind while you were talking that came to mind while you were talking earlier um about the way God earlier um about the way God earlier um about the way God accommodates. accommodates. accommodates. >> There are some who hold a couple of >> There are some who hold a couple of >> There are some who hold a couple of different positions we've talked about. different positions we've talked about. different positions we've talked about. When they read the Old Testament, When they read the Old Testament, When they read the Old Testament, they're like, "Oh, there's there's they're like, "Oh, there's there's they're like, "Oh, there's there's science in here. There's there's physics science in here. There's there's physics science in here. There's there's physics here. There like God is describing the here. There like God is describing the here. There like God is describing the Big Bang." And there's all kind of Big Bang." And there's all kind of Big Bang." And there's all kind of places people point to. And the places people point to. And the places people point to. And the challenge with doing that challenge with doing that challenge with doing that >> is you have to ask, well, whose science >> is you have to ask, well, whose science >> is you have to ask, well, whose science would God have put in there if he's if would God have put in there if he's if would God have put in there if he's if he's not hiding, but but teasing some he's not hiding, but but teasing some he's not hiding, but but teasing some some modern scientific some modern scientific some modern scientific >> concept century science? Is it 18th? Is >> concept century science? Is it 18th? Is >> concept century science? Is it 18th? Is it 21st? That's right. Is it 25th it 21st? That's right. Is it 25th it 21st? That's right. Is it 25th century science?

century science? century science? >> That's right. And it's I've always said >> That's right. And it's I've always said >> That's right. And it's I've always said this and I don't I don't mean it as this and I don't I don't mean it as this and I don't I don't mean it as harshly probably as it sounds. Uh but harshly probably as it sounds. Uh but harshly probably as it sounds. Uh but it's kind of arrogant to to read this it's kind of arrogant to to read this it's kind of arrogant to to read this and think God put our science in and think God put our science in and think God put our science in >> and not science from 400 years ago or >> and not science from 400 years ago or >> and not science from 400 years ago or science 400 years from now. science 400 years from now. science 400 years from now. >> Uh that this is So anyway, I just I >> Uh that this is So anyway, I just I >> Uh that this is So anyway, I just I think we need to have uh a humble think we need to have uh a humble think we need to have uh a humble approach. approach. approach. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh to the scriptures. But back to your >> Uh to the scriptures. But back to your >> Uh to the scriptures. But back to your >> Well, ju and just get and and I want >> Well, ju and just get and and I want >> Well, ju and just get and and I want people to hear this clearly. He's not I people to hear this clearly. He's not I people to hear this clearly. He's not I don't you're I I don't believe you're don't you're I I don't believe you're don't you're I I don't believe you're saying people that think science and the saying people that think science and the saying people that think science and the Bible should match are arrogant. Bible should match are arrogant. Bible should match are arrogant. I know you're not saying it, but let's I know you're not saying it, but let's I know you're not saying it, but let's just be clear. But there there's an just be clear. But there there's an just be clear. But there there's an implicit uh arrogance of thought. This implicit uh arrogance of thought. This implicit uh arrogance of thought. This is what CS Lewis talked about where um is what CS Lewis talked about where um is what CS Lewis talked about where um you think your era is the smartest era you think your era is the smartest era you think your era is the smartest era and and and I know scientifically that's and and and I know scientifically that's and and and I know scientifically that's probably true until the next era comes. probably true until the next era comes. probably true until the next era comes. Then you're not the smartest kid on the Then you're not the smartest kid on the Then you're not the smartest kid on the block. Um to think that the Bible has block. Um to think that the Bible has block. Um to think that the Bible has been written so that it com it it uh it been written so that it com it it uh it been written so that it com it it uh it definitely lays over so completely with definitely lays over so completely with definitely lays over so completely with 21st century science is just dangerous.

21st century science is just dangerous. 21st century science is just dangerous. uh because not less than what maybe 180 uh because not less than what maybe 180 uh because not less than what maybe 180 years ago probably less than that uh years ago probably less than that uh years ago probably less than that uh they thought uh well actually less than they thought uh well actually less than they thought uh well actually less than that they thought that the the big that that they thought that the the big that that they thought that the the big that the universe uh was static uh but now we the universe uh was static uh but now we the universe uh was static uh but now we know it's expanding right well so so know it's expanding right well so so know it's expanding right well so so what verses are you have to now what verses are you have to now what verses are you have to now reinterpret to say that the universe is reinterpret to say that the universe is reinterpret to say that the universe is expanding we all know the famous expanding we all know the famous expanding we all know the famous capernicus deal that uh that that capernicus deal that uh that that capernicus deal that uh that that everyone thought based on a literal everyone thought based on a literal everyone thought based on a literal reading of the Bible that the earth was reading of the Bible that the earth was reading of the Bible that the earth was the center of the universe the center of the universe the center of the universe >> the earth is on its foottool it shall >> the earth is on its foottool it shall >> the earth is on its foottool it shall not be moved the pillars of the earth not be moved the pillars of the earth not be moved the pillars of the earth cannot be shaken. And so if you believe cannot be shaken. And so if you believe cannot be shaken. And so if you believe that the Bible's speaking that the Bible's speaking that the Bible's speaking scientifically, you can't change your scientifically, you can't change your scientifically, you can't change your position. But there's people like position. But there's people like position. But there's people like Capernacus and others like, "No, Capernacus and others like, "No, Capernacus and others like, "No, actually we revolve around the sun and actually we revolve around the sun and actually we revolve around the sun and it's not it's not even questionable." it's not it's not even questionable." it's not it's not even questionable." Well, now you got to scramble to Well, now you got to scramble to Well, now you got to scramble to reinterpret the Bible. And so that's reinterpret the Bible. And so that's reinterpret the Bible. And so that's that's, you know, that's the arrogance that's, you know, that's the arrogance that's, you know, that's the arrogance is that you think like my 21st century is that you think like my 21st century is that you think like my 21st century science should completely fill this uh science should completely fill this uh science should completely fill this uh should match this perfectly. That is should match this perfectly. That is should match this perfectly. That is until the 22nd century and the 23rd until the 22nd century and the 23rd until the 22nd century and the 23rd century until the Lord comes back.

century until the Lord comes back. century until the Lord comes back. You're all it's just a moving target and You're all it's just a moving target and You're all it's just a moving target and I think that can be dangerous a little I think that can be dangerous a little I think that can be dangerous a little bit. Okay. Sorry. bit. Okay. Sorry. bit. Okay. Sorry. >> Yep. So, back to your question about the >> Yep. So, back to your question about the >> Yep. So, back to your question about the seven days. What does that have to do seven days. What does that have to do seven days. What does that have to do with with with >> because we're learning more about the >> because we're learning more about the >> because we're learning more about the ancient world that actually tells us ancient world that actually tells us ancient world that actually tells us about maybe a good way to understand about maybe a good way to understand about maybe a good way to understand Genesis 1 and 2. Genesis 1 and 2. Genesis 1 and 2. >> Yeah. What was super fascinating when >> Yeah. What was super fascinating when >> Yeah. What was super fascinating when you try to understand the the literary you try to understand the the literary you try to understand the the literary framework view framework view framework view >> um like hold just holding my Bible up >> um like hold just holding my Bible up >> um like hold just holding my Bible up here at Genesis my this copy of the here at Genesis my this copy of the here at Genesis my this copy of the Bible we have two columns Bible we have two columns Bible we have two columns >> and it's uh it's meant to be easy to >> and it's uh it's meant to be easy to >> and it's uh it's meant to be easy to read but what's lost right here read but what's lost right here read but what's lost right here >> is the actual layout of the text >> is the actual layout of the text >> is the actual layout of the text >> that it's it's in poetry form >> that it's it's in poetry form >> that it's it's in poetry form >> right and there are stanzas and >> right and there are stanzas and >> right and there are stanzas and throughout the seven days throughout the seven days throughout the seven days >> and rhymes >> and rhymes >> and rhymes >> and it rhymes >> and it rhymes >> and it rhymes some some lines have seven words, then some some lines have seven words, then some some lines have seven words, then later there's 14 words, and then later later there's 14 words, and then later later there's 14 words, and then later there's 21 words. It's all intentional. there's 21 words. It's all intentional. there's 21 words. It's all intentional. >> It's all intentional. >> It's all intentional. >> It's all intentional. >> And uh seven in the Hebrew mind would >> And uh seven in the Hebrew mind would >> And uh seven in the Hebrew mind would have been a sign of wholeness, have been a sign of wholeness, have been a sign of wholeness, completeness, perfection, not completeness, perfection, not completeness, perfection, not perfection, shiny and new necessarily, perfection, shiny and new necessarily, perfection, shiny and new necessarily, but but but but but but >> the whole it's whole. It's shalom, >> the whole it's whole. It's shalom, >> the whole it's whole. It's shalom, >> right? So, um, day seven when God rests, >> right? So, um, day seven when God rests, >> right? So, um, day seven when God rests, it's not that he's taken a day off or a it's not that he's taken a day off or a it's not that he's taken a day off or a break because he's tired from all that break because he's tired from all that break because he's tired from all that he's just been doing. It's more like he's just been doing. It's more like he's just been doing. It's more like it's it's whole.

it's it's whole. it's it's whole. >> It's complete and now he sits on his >> It's complete and now he sits on his >> It's complete and now he sits on his throne and rules and reigns. It's this throne and rules and reigns. It's this throne and rules and reigns. It's this uh we would say temple inauguration. uh we would say temple inauguration. uh we would say temple inauguration. >> Yeah. that uh the creation narrative is >> Yeah. that uh the creation narrative is >> Yeah. that uh the creation narrative is designed in such a way to draw our designed in such a way to draw our designed in such a way to draw our attention to day seven where after God attention to day seven where after God attention to day seven where after God has ordered all the chaos and created has ordered all the chaos and created has ordered all the chaos and created humans with dignity and purpose which humans with dignity and purpose which humans with dignity and purpose which you don't see actually in the other you don't see actually in the other you don't see actually in the other creation the other ancient creation the other ancient creation the other ancient >> that's the subversive part of it right >> that's the subversive part of it right >> that's the subversive part of it right >> that uh it's it's not that humans exist >> that uh it's it's not that humans exist >> that uh it's it's not that humans exist to serve the gods to serve the gods to serve the gods >> uh it it's actually that >> uh it it's actually that >> uh it it's actually that >> Yahweh the the god uh has created humans >> Yahweh the the god uh has created humans >> Yahweh the the god uh has created humans to have a role like him in some way. to have a role like him in some way. to have a role like him in some way. >> Yeah. Co- regent. That's right. >> Yeah. Co- regent. That's right. >> Yeah. Co- regent. That's right. >> That's crazy. >> That's crazy. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. And and now he's going to sit on >> Yeah. And and now he's going to sit on >> Yeah. And and now he's going to sit on his throne, reign and rule the cosmos, his throne, reign and rule the cosmos, his throne, reign and rule the cosmos, but he's invited us to to do the same but he's invited us to to do the same but he's invited us to to do the same thing with him. thing with him. thing with him. >> And what's interesting about this is >> And what's interesting about this is >> And what's interesting about this is that in the ancient world, uh when a god that in the ancient world, uh when a god that in the ancient world, uh when a god would take his rightful place on the would take his rightful place on the would take his rightful place on the throne, uh what we're learning now is it throne, uh what we're learning now is it throne, uh what we're learning now is it would take seven days. They would would take seven days. They would would take seven days. They would celebrate seven days about all the celebrate seven days about all the celebrate seven days about all the things that he had done. And then on the things that he had done. And then on the things that he had done. And then on the seventh day, he would sit on his throne.

seventh day, he would sit on his throne. seventh day, he would sit on his throne. And I I think it seems like at least it And I I think it seems like at least it And I I think it seems like at least it would make sense. It's uh that that would make sense. It's uh that that would make sense. It's uh that that Genesis is is using the same kind of Genesis is is using the same kind of Genesis is is using the same kind of ideas to say, "All right, first of all, ideas to say, "All right, first of all, ideas to say, "All right, first of all, let's take the chaos chaos idea. let's take the chaos chaos idea. let's take the chaos chaos idea. Everyone knows that chaos is bad and Everyone knows that chaos is bad and Everyone knows that chaos is bad and that you have to fight the gods to that you have to fight the gods to that you have to fight the gods to battle the god of chaos and that you'll battle the god of chaos and that you'll battle the god of chaos and that you'll get the land and the water and the fish get the land and the water and the fish get the land and the water and the fish and the birds and even those are gods." and the birds and even those are gods." and the birds and even those are gods." And then Genesis comes along, it's like, And then Genesis comes along, it's like, And then Genesis comes along, it's like, "Well, there's just one god. His name's "Well, there's just one god. His name's "Well, there's just one god. His name's Yahweh. He's not fighting anybody, but Yahweh. He's not fighting anybody, but Yahweh. He's not fighting anybody, but he does deal with chaos. He just tells he does deal with chaos. He just tells he does deal with chaos. He just tells it where to go." uh he creates and not it where to go." uh he creates and not it where to go." uh he creates and not only uh what we're learning even now is only uh what we're learning even now is only uh what we're learning even now is that uh to be created isn't just for us that uh to be created isn't just for us that uh to be created isn't just for us in the 21st century it's like you just in the 21st century it's like you just in the 21st century it's like you just produce it and that's it but no it's to produce it and that's it but no it's to produce it and that's it but no it's to be assigned a role that's actually when be assigned a role that's actually when be assigned a role that's actually when you exist so you can you know uh Adam's you exist so you can you know uh Adam's you exist so you can you know uh Adam's created from the dust but he doesn't created from the dust but he doesn't created from the dust but he doesn't exist in the ancient world until he's exist in the ancient world until he's exist in the ancient world until he's given an assignment that's why we see in given an assignment that's why we see in given an assignment that's why we see in Genesis 1 and 2 every time something's Genesis 1 and 2 every time something's Genesis 1 and 2 every time something's created including man they're created including man they're created including man they're immediately given an assignment and so immediately given an assignment and so immediately given an assignment and so once God um brings things into existence once God um brings things into existence once God um brings things into existence and he gives them their assignment. Then and he gives them their assignment. Then and he gives them their assignment. Then that is creation. And then when he's that is creation. And then when he's that is creation. And then when he's done with that, like his kingship, he done with that, like his kingship, he done with that, like his kingship, he goes and sits on the throne on goes and sits on the throne on goes and sits on the throne on coronation day and says it's all done.

coronation day and says it's all done. coronation day and says it's all done. And the world is ordered uh in a way And the world is ordered uh in a way And the world is ordered uh in a way that befits the king. Which is that befits the king. Which is that befits the king. Which is interesting because now uh it seems like interesting because now uh it seems like interesting because now uh it seems like uh and we'll get to this even in our uh and we'll get to this even in our uh and we'll get to this even in our teaching that uh Eden is more like a teaching that uh Eden is more like a teaching that uh Eden is more like a temple. It's not just some kind of temple. It's not just some kind of temple. It's not just some kind of random garden that you got to have random garden that you got to have random garden that you got to have tomatoes and you know some okra. It tomatoes and you know some okra. It tomatoes and you know some okra. It seems like it's a garden with temple and seems like it's a garden with temple and seems like it's a garden with temple and that Adam and Eve are almost not just that Adam and Eve are almost not just that Adam and Eve are almost not just co-regents but also priests before God co-regents but also priests before God co-regents but also priests before God and they there's just it's mind-boggling and they there's just it's mind-boggling and they there's just it's mind-boggling but it makes better sense when you can but it makes better sense when you can but it makes better sense when you can get into the ancient world. That's get into the ancient world. That's get into the ancient world. That's right. And so I think one of the things right. And so I think one of the things right. And so I think one of the things that we've really tried to take to heart that we've really tried to take to heart that we've really tried to take to heart is to um as John Walton says there's the is to um as John Walton says there's the is to um as John Walton says there's the cultural river that we swim in. Like we cultural river that we swim in. Like we cultural river that we swim in. Like we believe and about human rights we have believe and about human rights we have believe and about human rights we have uh we believe in democracies. we uh we believe in democracies. we uh we believe in democracies. we understand uh a a solar universe. In understand uh a a solar universe. In understand uh a a solar universe. In other words, I say universe, a solar other words, I say universe, a solar other words, I say universe, a solar system that we exist in. Those are we system that we exist in. Those are we system that we exist in. Those are we just take those for granted. Yep. just take those for granted. Yep. just take those for granted. Yep. Because that's the cultural river we Because that's the cultural river we Because that's the cultural river we live in. But the call is to get into the live in. But the call is to get into the live in. But the call is to get into the cultural river of the ancients and to cultural river of the ancients and to cultural river of the ancients and to see what they believed about the world, see what they believed about the world, see what they believed about the world, which was the things that you described. which was the things that you described. which was the things that you described. Uh they believe that the the earth was Uh they believe that the the earth was Uh they believe that the the earth was uh kind of on pedestals. Uh there was a uh kind of on pedestals. Uh there was a uh kind of on pedestals. Uh there was a solid dome around it. Uh which is what solid dome around it. Uh which is what solid dome around it. Uh which is what they call actually in the Bible they they call actually in the Bible they they call actually in the Bible they call it what?

call it what? call it what? >> The firmament. literally mean in English >> The firmament. literally mean in English >> The firmament. literally mean in English it just means firm. It was called Rakia it just means firm. It was called Rakia it just means firm. It was called Rakia in the Hebrew. Uh they believe that in the Hebrew. Uh they believe that in the Hebrew. Uh they believe that there were waters above. Uh it talks there were waters above. Uh it talks there were waters above. Uh it talks about the floodgates opening. They about the floodgates opening. They about the floodgates opening. They thought they were literal floodgates. thought they were literal floodgates. thought they were literal floodgates. >> In Genesis 7 for uh like in the flood >> In Genesis 7 for uh like in the flood >> In Genesis 7 for uh like in the flood account with Noah, it actually says the account with Noah, it actually says the account with Noah, it actually says the windows of heaven are opened so that windows of heaven are opened so that windows of heaven are opened so that rain can fall down. Like because it's a rain can fall down. Like because it's a rain can fall down. Like because it's a structure, it's solid. You have to open structure, it's solid. You have to open structure, it's solid. You have to open it for the water to fall down. it for the water to fall down. it for the water to fall down. >> Because uh scholars believe because uh >> Because uh scholars believe because uh >> Because uh scholars believe because uh it was blue. They thought uh they also it was blue. They thought uh they also it was blue. They thought uh they also believe that you know it talks about the believe that you know it talks about the believe that you know it talks about the waters above and the waters below that waters above and the waters below that waters above and the waters below that the waters above are called the the waters above are called the the waters above are called the celestial waters. Those are the waters celestial waters. Those are the waters celestial waters. Those are the waters that come in with the flood. Uh but that come in with the flood. Uh but that come in with the flood. Uh but beyond that is where God lives. He he beyond that is where God lives. He he beyond that is where God lives. He he lives beyond the waters from above. And lives beyond the waters from above. And lives beyond the waters from above. And when you when you understand that's how when you when you understand that's how when you when you understand that's how they thought and God's not there to go they thought and God's not there to go they thought and God's not there to go well actually you know uh heaven's not well actually you know uh heaven's not well actually you know uh heaven's not just this place above this the waters. just this place above this the waters. just this place above this the waters. There's no waters and actually the There's no waters and actually the There's no waters and actually the atmosphere is it's it's per it's atmosphere is it's it's per it's atmosphere is it's it's per it's permeable. It's it's not solid. he would permeable. It's it's not solid. he would permeable. It's it's not solid. he would be wasting his time telling them that be wasting his time telling them that be wasting his time telling them that because he's trying to tell a bigger because he's trying to tell a bigger because he's trying to tell a bigger story about ultimately the redemption in story about ultimately the redemption in story about ultimately the redemption in Christ. Christ. Christ. >> Y >> Y >> Y >> So, um it it just seems like um here's >> So, um it it just seems like um here's >> So, um it it just seems like um here's where I'd want to pull this all where I'd want to pull this all where I'd want to pull this all together.

together. together. >> Um >> Um >> Um like is is it okay to believe uh any one like is is it okay to believe uh any one like is is it okay to believe uh any one of these views? Yes. Uh but some people of these views? Yes. Uh but some people of these views? Yes. Uh but some people are like, "Are you sure? Can can we can are like, "Are you sure? Can can we can are like, "Are you sure? Can can we can we take um are we are we taking the we take um are we are we taking the we take um are we are we taking the Bible uh in a the way that God wants us Bible uh in a the way that God wants us Bible uh in a the way that God wants us to take it when we read it?" For to take it when we read it?" For to take it when we read it?" For example, if we read it with a literary example, if we read it with a literary example, if we read it with a literary framework view, if we believe that it's framework view, if we believe that it's framework view, if we believe that it's describing this in a way that's poetic describing this in a way that's poetic describing this in a way that's poetic and speaking theologically, not and speaking theologically, not and speaking theologically, not scientifically, are we still honoring scientifically, are we still honoring scientifically, are we still honoring God? What would you tell someone who's God? What would you tell someone who's God? What would you tell someone who's kind of nervous about doing that? kind of nervous about doing that? kind of nervous about doing that? >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, that's a good question. I I would say that's a good question. I I would say that's a good question. I I would say because I've been interested in this because I've been interested in this because I've been interested in this stuff my whole life and uh if if you stuff my whole life and uh if if you stuff my whole life and uh if if you know anything about the Inagram, I'm in know anything about the Inagram, I'm in know anything about the Inagram, I'm in Inog 5, man. I need to figure it out Inog 5, man. I need to figure it out Inog 5, man. I need to figure it out when I you know, like I I don't don't when I you know, like I I don't don't when I you know, like I I don't don't just want to know things. I want to just want to know things. I want to just want to know things. I want to know. know. know. >> I want to have the answer. I want to >> I want to have the answer. I want to >> I want to have the answer. I want to figure it all out. And so for my life, I figure it all out. And so for my life, I figure it all out. And so for my life, I have have have studied all this and been fascinated. studied all this and been fascinated. studied all this and been fascinated. And what's I'm so thankful for is in all And what's I'm so thankful for is in all And what's I'm so thankful for is in all of all of this, doesn't matter what I of all of this, doesn't matter what I of all of this, doesn't matter what I learn, even when there's conflict and learn, even when there's conflict and learn, even when there's conflict and challenges, at the end of the day, I'm challenges, at the end of the day, I'm challenges, at the end of the day, I'm filled with awe filled with awe filled with awe >> uh and blown away by the majesty of God >> uh and blown away by the majesty of God >> uh and blown away by the majesty of God at what he has done.

at what he has done. at what he has done. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh so the but I do want to understand >> Uh so the but I do want to understand >> Uh so the but I do want to understand all of it. So, um, all of it. So, um, all of it. So, um, what I've pushed in my own mind to to what I've pushed in my own mind to to what I've pushed in my own mind to to give me right ways of thinking is that give me right ways of thinking is that give me right ways of thinking is that Genesis is answering who made this Genesis is answering who made this Genesis is answering who made this >> and why are we here? >> and why are we here? >> and why are we here? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like when I can when I can read God's >> Like when I can when I can read God's >> Like when I can when I can read God's word with that framework, who made it word with that framework, who made it word with that framework, who made it all and why are we here? all and why are we here? all and why are we here? >> I I I feel like I come to the right >> I I I feel like I come to the right >> I I I feel like I come to the right answers. answers. answers. >> Yeah. I here's what I would say to that. >> Yeah. I here's what I would say to that. >> Yeah. I here's what I would say to that. If someone's trying to get to Genesis If someone's trying to get to Genesis If someone's trying to get to Genesis and it's the they want to explain the and it's the they want to explain the and it's the they want to explain the what and how. Uh this is the weakness of what and how. Uh this is the weakness of what and how. Uh this is the weakness of the I would say a weakness of the the I would say a weakness of the the I would say a weakness of the literary framework view is it's not literary framework view is it's not literary framework view is it's not going to tell you the what and the how. going to tell you the what and the how. going to tell you the what and the how. Now the literary guys would be like and Now the literary guys would be like and Now the literary guys would be like and that's its strength. But if if you're that's its strength. But if if you're that's its strength. But if if you're looking for a scientific way to think looking for a scientific way to think looking for a scientific way to think about Genesis, a literary view is not about Genesis, a literary view is not about Genesis, a literary view is not the one you want to have. And we have the one you want to have. And we have the one you want to have. And we have people in our church and we have guys uh people in our church and we have guys uh people in our church and we have guys uh that that actually talk about this and that that actually talk about this and that that actually talk about this and teach this from a more concordous view teach this from a more concordous view teach this from a more concordous view that I highly esteem and respect. uh that I highly esteem and respect. uh that I highly esteem and respect. uh they'd be like, "Yep, you need to come they'd be like, "Yep, you need to come they'd be like, "Yep, you need to come to art. You need to come to the uh day to art. You need to come to the uh day to art. You need to come to the uh day age view." And I'm like, "Then go to it.

age view." And I'm like, "Then go to it. age view." And I'm like, "Then go to it. That's great." Uh I I I am sincere about That's great." Uh I I I am sincere about That's great." Uh I I I am sincere about that. Go to that. It's great. Uh and that. Go to that. It's great. Uh and that. Go to that. It's great. Uh and honestly, if you're if your conscience honestly, if you're if your conscience honestly, if you're if your conscience is burdened by doing anything else than is burdened by doing anything else than is burdened by doing anything else than literal, then stick with literal. literal, then stick with literal. literal, then stick with literal. Lance and I are just trying to give uh Lance and I are just trying to give uh Lance and I are just trying to give uh some more information about the literary some more information about the literary some more information about the literary framework approach uh because it's it's framework approach uh because it's it's framework approach uh because it's it's got a historical uh precedent to it. And got a historical uh precedent to it. And got a historical uh precedent to it. And for us as the teaching team, part of the for us as the teaching team, part of the for us as the teaching team, part of the teaching team and our teaching pastors, teaching team and our teaching pastors, teaching team and our teaching pastors, our campus pastors and lead pastor, we our campus pastors and lead pastor, we our campus pastors and lead pastor, we feel like this uh makes the most sense feel like this uh makes the most sense feel like this uh makes the most sense out of the Bible. Now listen, uh if uh out of the Bible. Now listen, uh if uh out of the Bible. Now listen, uh if uh 20 years from now there's something else 20 years from now there's something else 20 years from now there's something else that helps make better sense of Genesis that helps make better sense of Genesis that helps make better sense of Genesis 1 and 2, we're open to correction. We're 1 and 2, we're open to correction. We're 1 and 2, we're open to correction. We're open I mean we're all going to grow. The open I mean we're all going to grow. The open I mean we're all going to grow. The reason we even hold the views that we reason we even hold the views that we reason we even hold the views that we hold today is uh because this convinced hold today is uh because this convinced hold today is uh because this convinced us most that this is the most accurate us most that this is the most accurate us most that this is the most accurate way to read the text. Uh because we way to read the text. Uh because we way to read the text. Uh because we didn't start off this way. So, uh, I try didn't start off this way. So, uh, I try didn't start off this way. So, uh, I try to treat Genesis much like I treat to treat Genesis much like I treat to treat Genesis much like I treat Revelation. I definitely have a Revelation. I definitely have a Revelation. I definitely have a perspective and Clear Creek definitely perspective and Clear Creek definitely perspective and Clear Creek definitely has a perspective from its teaching has a perspective from its teaching has a perspective from its teaching perspective of teaching view. But as far perspective of teaching view. But as far perspective of teaching view. But as far as like what can I hold and be a member as like what can I hold and be a member as like what can I hold and be a member in good standing at Clear Creek in good standing at Clear Creek in good standing at Clear Creek Community Church, uh, well, uh, there Community Church, uh, well, uh, there Community Church, uh, well, uh, there are about three to four different views are about three to four different views are about three to four different views of Revelation at the end of the age.

of Revelation at the end of the age. of Revelation at the end of the age. There's four different views generally There's four different views generally There's four different views generally of the beginning of the age. And we're of the beginning of the age. And we're of the beginning of the age. And we're okay if you hold any one of those views. okay if you hold any one of those views. okay if you hold any one of those views. We just want to give you a different way We just want to give you a different way We just want to give you a different way to think about how we're teaching in to think about how we're teaching in to think about how we're teaching in this series. Uh in fact uh here in a this series. Uh in fact uh here in a this series. Uh in fact uh here in a second I I Lance you could probably give second I I Lance you could probably give second I I Lance you could probably give some people some resources that have some people some resources that have some people some resources that have helped you uh think through this uh helped you uh think through this uh helped you uh think through this uh best. Um I think in the history of Clear best. Um I think in the history of Clear best. Um I think in the history of Clear Creek as we've taught in the way that we Creek as we've taught in the way that we Creek as we've taught in the way that we have uh it has helped the conscience of have uh it has helped the conscience of have uh it has helped the conscience of many a Christian who says that I can many a Christian who says that I can many a Christian who says that I can hold on to science and my faith and um hold on to science and my faith and um hold on to science and my faith and um and not depart from either one of them and not depart from either one of them and not depart from either one of them because I believe the Bible is trying to because I believe the Bible is trying to because I believe the Bible is trying to answer a different question than science answer a different question than science answer a different question than science wants to ask. So, we come to Genesis wants to ask. So, we come to Genesis wants to ask. So, we come to Genesis saying that it's about the who and the saying that it's about the who and the saying that it's about the who and the why. That's right. Yahweh for his glory why. That's right. Yahweh for his glory why. That's right. Yahweh for his glory and uh the mechanics of it. Um Genesis and uh the mechanics of it. Um Genesis and uh the mechanics of it. Um Genesis isn't trying to in our view, Genesis is isn't trying to in our view, Genesis is isn't trying to in our view, Genesis is not trying to answer that. And so when not trying to answer that. And so when not trying to answer that. And so when people ask where are the dinosaurs? So people ask where are the dinosaurs? So people ask where are the dinosaurs? So let's go back to the beginning where you let's go back to the beginning where you let's go back to the beginning where you know little Lance comes up to big Lance know little Lance comes up to big Lance know little Lance comes up to big Lance and all right uh where are the and all right uh where are the and all right uh where are the dinosaurs? Um I think what we would say dinosaurs? Um I think what we would say dinosaurs? Um I think what we would say is uh what is science telling you? Um, is uh what is science telling you? Um, is uh what is science telling you? Um, you know, what does science say about you know, what does science say about you know, what does science say about where the dinosaurs are? That's our view where the dinosaurs are? That's our view where the dinosaurs are? That's our view because, uh, the Genesis isn't trying to because, uh, the Genesis isn't trying to because, uh, the Genesis isn't trying to answer a question designed for science.

answer a question designed for science. answer a question designed for science. Uh, what do we do with aliens? I don't Uh, what do we do with aliens? I don't Uh, what do we do with aliens? I don't know. You'd have to talk to scientists. know. You'd have to talk to scientists. know. You'd have to talk to scientists. What do we What do we do with, um, how What do we What do we do with, um, how What do we What do we do with, um, how old the Earth is? Well, I would talk to old the Earth is? Well, I would talk to old the Earth is? Well, I would talk to a geologist. And knowing they could a geologist. And knowing they could a geologist. And knowing they could still all be wrong. All we're simply still all be wrong. All we're simply still all be wrong. All we're simply saying is is that the Bible's not trying saying is is that the Bible's not trying saying is is that the Bible's not trying to give those. It would be like trying to give those. It would be like trying to give those. It would be like trying to open up um a book of your out of your to open up um a book of your out of your to open up um a book of your out of your glove box and your your owner's manual glove box and your your owner's manual glove box and your your owner's manual for your car asking uh where where uh for your car asking uh where where uh for your car asking uh where where uh how can I make the best pizza? how can I make the best pizza? how can I make the best pizza? Well, that's a great question, but the Well, that's a great question, but the Well, that's a great question, but the owner's manual for your um your Bronco 2 owner's manual for your um your Bronco 2 owner's manual for your um your Bronco 2 is probably not going to be able to is probably not going to be able to is probably not going to be able to answer that. Uh the Bible is designed to answer that. Uh the Bible is designed to answer that. Uh the Bible is designed to answer the questions it's designed to answer the questions it's designed to answer the questions it's designed to answer, and I would argue those are answer, and I would argue those are answer, and I would argue those are theological questions, questions about theological questions, questions about theological questions, questions about God and his people. in redemption in God and his people. in redemption in God and his people. in redemption in Jesus, not about where did dinosaurs Jesus, not about where did dinosaurs Jesus, not about where did dinosaurs come from or what are the origins uh come from or what are the origins uh come from or what are the origins uh scientifically of mankind or how scientifically of mankind or how scientifically of mankind or how scientifically old the earth is. Those scientifically old the earth is. Those scientifically old the earth is. Those aren't the questions it's trying to aren't the questions it's trying to aren't the questions it's trying to answer and you're just going to be answer and you're just going to be answer and you're just going to be frustrated every time you come to that frustrated every time you come to that frustrated every time you come to that text. But if you understand how the text. But if you understand how the text. But if you understand how the ancients understood their world and how ancients understood their world and how ancients understood their world and how really the writers of Genesis uh are really the writers of Genesis uh are really the writers of Genesis uh are geniuses.

geniuses. geniuses. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They're like geniuses. Wh why why are >> They're like geniuses. Wh why why are >> They're like geniuses. Wh why why are they so cuz people that study the they so cuz people that study the they so cuz people that study the scriptures come away going even even scriptures come away going even even scriptures come away going even even pagans go these guys were genius and we pagans go these guys were genius and we pagans go these guys were genius and we know that they were inspired fully by know that they were inspired fully by know that they were inspired fully by the Holy Spirit but what makes them so the Holy Spirit but what makes them so the Holy Spirit but what makes them so genius? genius? genius? >> Oh man the the way it's woven together >> Oh man the the way it's woven together >> Oh man the the way it's woven together the way that uh they've put thought into the way that uh they've put thought into the way that uh they've put thought into the word count and the rhyming and the the word count and the rhyming and the the word count and the rhyming and the like all of it they're the literary like all of it they're the literary like all of it they're the literary frame of this section of the Bible frame of this section of the Bible frame of this section of the Bible >> is itself trying to draw your attention >> is itself trying to draw your attention >> is itself trying to draw your attention to specific things. Yes, to specific things. Yes, to specific things. Yes, >> it the way it's laid out is meant to >> it the way it's laid out is meant to >> it the way it's laid out is meant to stir your heart and your mind stir your heart and your mind stir your heart and your mind >> to make you think, oh, why every day uh >> to make you think, oh, why every day uh >> to make you think, oh, why every day uh in the 7-day creation account does God in the 7-day creation account does God in the 7-day creation account does God look at it and say it's good except day look at it and say it's good except day look at it and say it's good except day two. two. two. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> There's something missing there. Like >> There's something missing there. Like >> There's something missing there. Like there all these details are meant to there all these details are meant to there all these details are meant to cause you to think. cause you to think. cause you to think. >> Yeah. Why why is um and I I may reverse >> Yeah. Why why is um and I I may reverse >> Yeah. Why why is um and I I may reverse the order here, but it's the still same the order here, but it's the still same the order here, but it's the still same terms. Why is um why is dust ha adama terms. Why is um why is dust ha adama terms. Why is um why is dust ha adama and man ha adam, and man ha adam, and man ha adam, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Um why why why the play on the words?

>> Um why why why the play on the words? >> Um why why why the play on the words? Well, you know, it's all theological. Well, you know, it's all theological. Well, you know, it's all theological. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And so what what I want people to hear >> And so what what I want people to hear >> And so what what I want people to hear is um if to to not take something is um if to to not take something is um if to to not take something literally is okay if it wasn't meant to literally is okay if it wasn't meant to literally is okay if it wasn't meant to be literal. be literal. be literal. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> So we would say we we we we um some view >> So we would say we we we we um some view >> So we would say we we we we um some view and actually all but the first few takes and actually all but the first few takes and actually all but the first few takes some of this nonliterally. If you're a some of this nonliterally. If you're a some of this nonliterally. If you're a day age, you don't take the day literal. day age, you don't take the day literal. day age, you don't take the day literal. So, so, so everyone but the first one So, so, so everyone but the first one So, so, so everyone but the first one has some nonliteral in it, but they has some nonliteral in it, but they has some nonliteral in it, but they would all say we may not take it would all say we may not take it would all say we may not take it literally, but we take it seriously. literally, but we take it seriously. literally, but we take it seriously. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And so, uh, I would just say all the >> And so, uh, I would just say all the >> And so, uh, I would just say all the views are trying to take the text views are trying to take the text views are trying to take the text seriously. So, we want to be gracious to seriously. So, we want to be gracious to seriously. So, we want to be gracious to people with other views. Um, but I would people with other views. Um, but I would people with other views. Um, but I would say this, I want to quote Augustine who say this, I want to quote Augustine who say this, I want to quote Augustine who said, uh, a church father, he lived said, uh, a church father, he lived said, uh, a church father, he lived towards the end of the 3rd to the 4th towards the end of the 3rd to the 4th towards the end of the 3rd to the 4th century, uh, probably the greatest century, uh, probably the greatest century, uh, probably the greatest theologian, uh, outside of the Old and theologian, uh, outside of the Old and theologian, uh, outside of the Old and New Testament. what what he thought New Testament. what what he thought New Testament. what what he thought about lasted for a thousand years until about lasted for a thousand years until about lasted for a thousand years until the 15th century uh 16th century and he the 15th century uh 16th century and he the 15th century uh 16th century and he said even he said this he wrote a book said even he said this he wrote a book said even he said this he wrote a book called uh on the literal interpretation called uh on the literal interpretation called uh on the literal interpretation of Genesis and his whole point was it's of Genesis and his whole point was it's of Genesis and his whole point was it's not literal I mean he he took it not literal I mean he he took it not literal I mean he he took it figuratively and allegorically but figuratively and allegorically but figuratively and allegorically but here's what he said quote in matters here's what he said quote in matters here's what he said quote in matters that are obscure and far beyond our that are obscure and far beyond our that are obscure and far beyond our vision even in such as we may find vision even in such as we may find vision even in such as we may find treated in holy scripture different treated in holy scripture different treated in holy scripture different interpretations are sometimes possible interpretations are sometimes possible interpretations are sometimes possible uh without prejudice to the faith that uh without prejudice to the faith that uh without prejudice to the faith that we've received In such a case, we should we've received In such a case, we should we've received In such a case, we should not rush in headlong so firmly to take not rush in headlong so firmly to take not rush in headlong so firmly to take our stand on one side that if further our stand on one side that if further our stand on one side that if further progress and the search of truth justif progress and the search of truth justif progress and the search of truth justif justly undermines our current position, justly undermines our current position, justly undermines our current position, we're going to fall with it as well.

we're going to fall with it as well. we're going to fall with it as well. This would be the battle not for the This would be the battle not for the This would be the battle not for the teaching of the holy scripture, but for teaching of the holy scripture, but for teaching of the holy scripture, but for our own, wishing its teaching to conform our own, wishing its teaching to conform our own, wishing its teaching to conform to ours, whereas we ought to wish ours to ours, whereas we ought to wish ours to ours, whereas we ought to wish ours to conform to that of sacred scripture. to conform to that of sacred scripture. to conform to that of sacred scripture. So, let me boil that down. So, let me boil that down. So, let me boil that down. Uh I I'm I we should have confidence in Uh I I'm I we should have confidence in Uh I I'm I we should have confidence in the views that we hold, but not so the views that we hold, but not so the views that we hold, but not so confident that if we don't if we learn confident that if we don't if we learn confident that if we don't if we learn something in the future that undermines something in the future that undermines something in the future that undermines our view, we have we should have the our view, we have we should have the our view, we have we should have the humility to take a better view that humility to take a better view that humility to take a better view that makes better sense of the scripture. Cuz makes better sense of the scripture. Cuz makes better sense of the scripture. Cuz if we don't, it's about us, not the if we don't, it's about us, not the if we don't, it's about us, not the Bible. That's ultimately what we're Bible. That's ultimately what we're Bible. That's ultimately what we're trying to do here. We're trying to take trying to do here. We're trying to take trying to do here. We're trying to take a position that we say makes best sense a position that we say makes best sense a position that we say makes best sense of the scriptures. And if something else of the scriptures. And if something else of the scriptures. And if something else in the future comes out, great. But in the future comes out, great. But in the future comes out, great. But until then, we thought we'd try to help until then, we thought we'd try to help until then, we thought we'd try to help Clear Creek a little bit as we walk Clear Creek a little bit as we walk Clear Creek a little bit as we walk through Genesis 1 and two. Yeah. through Genesis 1 and two. Yeah. through Genesis 1 and two. Yeah. >> Uh, any books that you'd like to >> Uh, any books that you'd like to >> Uh, any books that you'd like to recommend? recommend? recommend? >> Sure. I mean, we could we could send out >> Sure. I mean, we could we could send out >> Sure. I mean, we could we could send out dozens of um of books, but I would say dozens of um of books, but I would say dozens of um of books, but I would say here I br I did bring some that I've here I br I did bring some that I've here I br I did bring some that I've come to appreciate as uh this book come to appreciate as uh this book come to appreciate as uh this book written by Sandra Richter called The written by Sandra Richter called The written by Sandra Richter called The Epic of Eden, a Christian entry into the Epic of Eden, a Christian entry into the Epic of Eden, a Christian entry into the New Testament. This is one of those that New Testament. This is one of those that New Testament. This is one of those that helps you helps you helps you >> put your toes in the water of what we're >> put your toes in the water of what we're >> put your toes in the water of what we're talking about. What is what are the talking about. What is what are the talking about. What is what are the ancient people thinking? How is the ancient people thinking? How is the ancient people thinking? How is the literary design influencing the theology literary design influencing the theology literary design influencing the theology that's supposed to come out of all this?

that's supposed to come out of all this? that's supposed to come out of all this? So, super good, So, super good, So, super good, >> great book. Another book kind of in that >> great book. Another book kind of in that >> great book. Another book kind of in that vein that um you and I came across a vein that um you and I came across a vein that um you and I came across a long time ago, The Lost World of Genesis long time ago, The Lost World of Genesis long time ago, The Lost World of Genesis 1 by John Walton. We've referenced him 1 by John Walton. We've referenced him 1 by John Walton. We've referenced him him a couple of times so far. him a couple of times so far. him a couple of times so far. >> Um he's got a whole Lost World series, >> Um he's got a whole Lost World series, >> Um he's got a whole Lost World series, The Lost World of Adam and Eve, The Lost The Lost World of Adam and Eve, The Lost The Lost World of Adam and Eve, The Lost World of the Flood, The Canaanite World of the Flood, The Canaanite World of the Flood, The Canaanite Conquest, all that. So, he's great. He's Conquest, all that. So, he's great. He's Conquest, all that. So, he's great. He's a scholar out of Weaten. a scholar out of Weaten. a scholar out of Weaten. >> What I would Can I Can I just say >> What I would Can I Can I just say >> What I would Can I Can I just say something about that book? What I would something about that book? What I would something about that book? What I would say about that book, uh, Lost World of say about that book, uh, Lost World of say about that book, uh, Lost World of Genesis World One, Lost World of Adam Genesis World One, Lost World of Adam Genesis World One, Lost World of Adam and Eve, uh, it's it's so incredibly and Eve, uh, it's it's so incredibly and Eve, uh, it's it's so incredibly thoughtprovoking because it's the latest thoughtprovoking because it's the latest thoughtprovoking because it's the latest stuff that we're that they're learning stuff that we're that they're learning stuff that we're that they're learning about the ancient world. Uh, Walton, a about the ancient world. Uh, Walton, a about the ancient world. Uh, Walton, a conservative out of, as you said, conservative out of, as you said, conservative out of, as you said, Wheaton College. Um, fantastic stuff. Wheaton College. Um, fantastic stuff. Wheaton College. Um, fantastic stuff. We're not saying you have to believe We're not saying you have to believe We're not saying you have to believe this all hook, line, and sinker, but it this all hook, line, and sinker, but it this all hook, line, and sinker, but it does give you a perspective from someone does give you a perspective from someone does give you a perspective from someone who would say, "Here's how the ancients who would say, "Here's how the ancients who would say, "Here's how the ancients understood uh, Genesis 1, and 2." Uh, understood uh, Genesis 1, and 2." Uh, understood uh, Genesis 1, and 2." Uh, he's not stands by himself on this. he's not stands by himself on this. he's not stands by himself on this. There's a lot of uh frankly conservative There's a lot of uh frankly conservative There's a lot of uh frankly conservative uh Old Testament scholars that would uh Old Testament scholars that would uh Old Testament scholars that would stack hands with Walton. It's just to stack hands with Walton. It's just to stack hands with Walton. It's just to give you a perspective. Again, all of give you a perspective. Again, all of give you a perspective. Again, all of these books, we're not saying you have these books, we're not saying you have these books, we're not saying you have to believe everything in them, but they to believe everything in them, but they to believe everything in them, but they already get you in a direction that already get you in a direction that already get you in a direction that says, "Okay, here's how science says says, "Okay, here's how science says says, "Okay, here's how science says this and faith says this, and maybe they this and faith says this, and maybe they this and faith says this, and maybe they can still live together in a way that can still live together in a way that can still live together in a way that doesn't necessarily mean concordism, but doesn't necessarily mean concordism, but doesn't necessarily mean concordism, but they're doing what they need to do." So, they're doing what they need to do." So, they're doing what they need to do." So, what's else what else do you have?

what's else what else do you have? what's else what else do you have? >> Uh Francis Collins uh wrote a book >> Uh Francis Collins uh wrote a book >> Uh Francis Collins uh wrote a book called The Language of God. Francis called The Language of God. Francis called The Language of God. Francis Collins was appointed by four different Collins was appointed by four different Collins was appointed by four different presidents as the head of the NIH. presidents as the head of the NIH. presidents as the head of the NIH. um he led the human genome project um he led the human genome project um he led the human genome project >> and he is a faithful follower of Jesus. >> and he is a faithful follower of Jesus. >> and he is a faithful follower of Jesus. We've we've been in the same room as We've we've been in the same room as We've we've been in the same room as him, heard him speak. Um he's great, but him, heard him speak. Um he's great, but him, heard him speak. Um he's great, but I appreciate the way he wrestled early I appreciate the way he wrestled early I appreciate the way he wrestled early on with with faith and what he was on with with faith and what he was on with with faith and what he was discovering. Um discovering. Um discovering. Um >> so if you're a scientifically minded >> so if you're a scientifically minded >> so if you're a scientifically minded person, it really is almost person, it really is almost person, it really is almost autobiographical about how he came to autobiographical about how he came to autobiographical about how he came to faith. Is that it? faith. Is that it? faith. Is that it? >> It is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. tells the story >> It is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. tells the story >> It is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. tells the story of uh you know he was going into um uh I of uh you know he was going into um uh I of uh you know he was going into um uh I forget what which scientific discipline forget what which scientific discipline forget what which scientific discipline but like his whole world shifted and he but like his whole world shifted and he but like his whole world shifted and he went toward biology which he dismissed went toward biology which he dismissed went toward biology which he dismissed earlier on anyway it's a great b if if earlier on anyway it's a great b if if earlier on anyway it's a great b if if you like that you like that you like that >> you're a science guy you're really going >> you're a science guy you're really going >> you're a science guy you're really going to like it to like it to like it >> I know yeah in that vein there's another >> I know yeah in that vein there's another >> I know yeah in that vein there's another book um co-written by Dennis Vinema and book um co-written by Dennis Vinema and book um co-written by Dennis Vinema and Scott Mcnite Dennis Vinema is a Scott Mcnite Dennis Vinema is a Scott Mcnite Dennis Vinema is a biologist biologist biologist >> PhD loves Jesus Scott Mcnite is a a >> PhD loves Jesus Scott Mcnite is a a >> PhD loves Jesus Scott Mcnite is a a scholar we've also heard both of these I scholar we've also heard both of these I scholar we've also heard both of these I speak um they co-wrote this book called speak um they co-wrote this book called speak um they co-wrote this book called Adam in the Genome Adam in the Genome Adam in the Genome >> and here's why I recommend this. Again, >> and here's why I recommend this. Again, >> and here's why I recommend this. Again, >> this is not an endorsement, >> this is not an endorsement, >> this is not an endorsement, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> This is thoughtprovoking. >> This is thoughtprovoking. >> This is thoughtprovoking. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And for anyone who um wonders about >> And for anyone who um wonders about >> And for anyone who um wonders about evolution or you haven't really been evolution or you haven't really been evolution or you haven't really been taught taught taught >> what evolutionary theory is about. >> what evolutionary theory is about. >> what evolutionary theory is about. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh Dennis Venma does such a fantastic >> Uh Dennis Venma does such a fantastic >> Uh Dennis Venma does such a fantastic job of of laying out the theory of job of of laying out the theory of job of of laying out the theory of evolution. And he even says some so evolution. And he even says some so evolution. And he even says some so helpful things. When when scientists use helpful things. When when scientists use helpful things. When when scientists use the word theory, they mean something the word theory, they mean something the word theory, they mean something different than most of us. Well, we different than most of us. Well, we different than most of us. Well, we don't know. We're just guessing. don't know. We're just guessing. don't know. We're just guessing. >> Yeah. We most of the times when we use >> Yeah. We most of the times when we use >> Yeah. We most of the times when we use the word theory mean hypothesis. You're the word theory mean hypothesis. You're the word theory mean hypothesis. You're right. right. right. >> But scientists use it very differently. >> But scientists use it very differently. >> But scientists use it very differently. Um but it's such a an approachable Um but it's such a an approachable Um but it's such a an approachable understanding and description of understanding and description of understanding and description of evolution. evolution. evolution. >> And these guys are Christians who don't >> And these guys are Christians who don't >> And these guys are Christians who don't believe in this naturalistic atheistic believe in this naturalistic atheistic believe in this naturalistic atheistic evolution where it's like ah there's evolution where it's like ah there's evolution where it's like ah there's nothing there. These guys would be nothing there. These guys would be nothing there. These guys would be called I don't know what the right term called I don't know what the right term called I don't know what the right term is because uh if they're called is because uh if they're called is because uh if they're called creationary evolution or is it creationary evolution or is it creationary evolution or is it evolutionary creation whatever it is evolutionary creation whatever it is evolutionary creation whatever it is they believe that the Christian God they believe that the Christian God they believe that the Christian God created the universe but he did th did created the universe but he did th did created the universe but he did th did so through evolutionary process that's so through evolutionary process that's so through evolutionary process that's these guys view correct okay all right these guys view correct okay all right these guys view correct okay all right and and and >> again not saying this is clear's view >> again not saying this is clear's view >> again not saying this is clear's view we're saying like this is their view but we're saying like this is their view but we're saying like this is their view but they're not they're not agn they're not they're not they're not agn they're not they're not they're not agn they're not atheists trying they're just trying to atheists trying they're just trying to atheists trying they're just trying to help Christians understand what these help Christians understand what these help Christians understand what these other guys that are atheists saying like other guys that are atheists saying like other guys that are atheists saying like here's what they're here's what they're here's what they're here's what they're here's what they're here's what they're doing right now okay doing right now okay doing right now okay >> and this is the the most accessible >> and this is the the most accessible >> and this is the the most accessible um thing I've ever read about.

um thing I've ever read about. um thing I've ever read about. >> I read it. I mean, I read it and I I >> I read it. I mean, I read it and I I >> I read it. I mean, I read it and I I don't I don't even know if I could uh to don't I don't even know if I could uh to don't I don't even know if I could uh to be honest, there's some things I'm like, be honest, there's some things I'm like, be honest, there's some things I'm like, I don't think I I don't know if I I don't think I I don't know if I I don't think I I don't know if I believe that. But what I appreciated believe that. But what I appreciated believe that. But what I appreciated from those guys were you could tell from those guys were you could tell from those guys were you could tell their humility. You could tell they were their humility. You could tell they were their humility. You could tell they were Christians. And they're like, "Hey, Christians. And they're like, "Hey, Christians. And they're like, "Hey, listen. We are scientists. We're listen. We are scientists. We're listen. We are scientists. We're geneticists. We're telling you, here's geneticists. We're telling you, here's geneticists. We're telling you, here's the latest stuff and how it corroborates the latest stuff and how it corroborates the latest stuff and how it corroborates a lot of science. You need to know about a lot of science. You need to know about a lot of science. You need to know about this and not know about it to be scared, this and not know about it to be scared, this and not know about it to be scared, but we're Christians and we're telling but we're Christians and we're telling but we're Christians and we're telling you how we understand it." So I I it you how we understand it." So I I it you how we understand it." So I I it definitely was thoughtprovoking. So definitely was thoughtprovoking. So definitely was thoughtprovoking. So yeah, super super good. yeah, super super good. yeah, super super good. >> You know, I've got uh my my oldest son's >> You know, I've got uh my my oldest son's >> You know, I've got uh my my oldest son's about to be a senior in high school and about to be a senior in high school and about to be a senior in high school and he's going to go off to college. he's going to go off to college. he's going to go off to college. >> Very scientifically minded. >> Very scientifically minded. >> Very scientifically minded. >> Yeah. And >> Yeah. And >> Yeah. And it's it's so helpful to just have an it's it's so helpful to just have an it's it's so helpful to just have an have a an approach that to know there have a an approach that to know there have a an approach that to know there are faithful Jesusloving scientists out are faithful Jesusloving scientists out are faithful Jesusloving scientists out there that I can point him to. Yeah. there that I can point him to. Yeah. there that I can point him to. Yeah. >> As his mind is expanded when he goes to >> As his mind is expanded when he goes to >> As his mind is expanded when he goes to college. college. college. >> Oh, listen. I remember sitting my >> Oh, listen. I remember sitting my >> Oh, listen. I remember sitting my children down and walking them through children down and walking them through children down and walking them through like I know uh everyone's different in like I know uh everyone's different in like I know uh everyone's different in your school that you go to that that are your school that you go to that that are your school that you go to that that are Christians and they've all been taught Christians and they've all been taught Christians and they've all been taught different things about Genesis. I'm different things about Genesis. I'm different things about Genesis. I'm going to teach you how I understand going to teach you how I understand going to teach you how I understand Genesis and I hope it just frees you up Genesis and I hope it just frees you up Genesis and I hope it just frees you up to love Jesus very well, know the Bible to love Jesus very well, know the Bible to love Jesus very well, know the Bible very well, love the scriptures very very well, love the scriptures very very well, love the scriptures very deeply, but but just be able to be deeply, but but just be able to be deeply, but but just be able to be engaging with all kinds of science and engaging with all kinds of science and engaging with all kinds of science and not worry about it.

not worry about it. not worry about it. >> Yep. By not worrying about it doesn't >> Yep. By not worrying about it doesn't >> Yep. By not worrying about it doesn't mean like there aren't things that mean like there aren't things that mean like there aren't things that science tries to pull over our eyes and science tries to pull over our eyes and science tries to pull over our eyes and say that this is true or that's true say that this is true or that's true say that this is true or that's true that we shouldn't be aware of. But but that we shouldn't be aware of. But but that we shouldn't be aware of. But but but to not be scared when someone's but to not be scared when someone's but to not be scared when someone's like, "Well, did you know that it might like, "Well, did you know that it might like, "Well, did you know that it might have been, you know, Earth's billions of have been, you know, Earth's billions of have been, you know, Earth's billions of years old?" And you're not, you know, years old?" And you're not, you know, years old?" And you're not, you know, you're not sitting there crossing your you're not sitting there crossing your you're not sitting there crossing your arms going, "Nope, it's 6,000, man, at arms going, "Nope, it's 6,000, man, at arms going, "Nope, it's 6,000, man, at 6,000." And um because those educators 6,000." And um because those educators 6,000." And um because those educators are trained to present their view, are trained to present their view, are trained to present their view, students aren't trained to even students aren't trained to even students aren't trained to even understand what their views are yet. And understand what their views are yet. And understand what their views are yet. And so to me, uh, one of the blessings I so to me, uh, one of the blessings I so to me, uh, one of the blessings I think that Clear Creek has tried to be think that Clear Creek has tried to be think that Clear Creek has tried to be for people who are more scientifically for people who are more scientifically for people who are more scientifically minded is you don't have to throw out minded is you don't have to throw out minded is you don't have to throw out your science to embrace Jesus and you your science to embrace Jesus and you your science to embrace Jesus and you don't have to throw out Jesus to embrace don't have to throw out Jesus to embrace don't have to throw out Jesus to embrace your science. Um, that there is a your science. Um, that there is a your science. Um, that there is a orthodox historic approach that orthodox historic approach that orthodox historic approach that Christians have had for the better part Christians have had for the better part Christians have had for the better part of 2,000 years uh, that have allowed for of 2,000 years uh, that have allowed for of 2,000 years uh, that have allowed for both books of the Bible to be true. Yep.